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(PBS)   FRONTLINE does a great investigative show on this whole homeland spying "scandal." Back in May. Of 2007   (pbs.org) divider line 74
    More: Obvious, front lines, electronic surveillance, warrantless wiretapping, John Yoo, Privacy Act, FBI director, internet traffic  
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1024 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jun 2013 at 5:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-11 05:28:36 PM  
How dare you interrupt an entirely legitimate media flabbergasm!
 
2013-06-11 05:36:24 PM  
I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.
 
2013-06-11 05:48:58 PM  
Republicans, I'll vote for you if you stop this, shut down Guantanamo, and stop trying to gut social services.

Not interested in any of that?  Just blaming Obama?  Ok.
 
2013-06-11 05:53:19 PM  
Stephen Sprouse and Kristin Douglas of Kansas City, Mo., object to being caught in the FBI dragnet in Las Vegas just because they happened to get married there at the wrong moment. Says Douglas, "I'm sure that the government does a lot of things that I don't know about, and I've always been OK with that -- until I found out that I was included."

imageshack.us
 
2013-06-11 05:53:32 PM  
Did they do a show on the USA Today story from 2006?
 
2013-06-11 05:54:26 PM  
In an attempt to link to relevant fark flame-wars into one today:

What happens when the NSA forces Microsoft to turn over all XBONE Kinnect videos to them?

People are about to buy 'always on' cameras to their living room and plug them into a corporation's network and the NSA will say "thanks citizen!"
 
2013-06-11 06:01:11 PM  

OceanVortex: In an attempt to link to relevant fark flame-wars into one today:

What happens when the NSA forces Microsoft to turn over all XBONE Kinnect videos to them?

People are about to buy 'always on' cameras to their living room and plug them into a corporation's network and the NSA will say "thanks citizen!"


Anyone dumb enough to buy that horrible console probably deserves to be spied on by NSA fappers.
 
2013-06-11 06:06:46 PM  
 
2013-06-11 06:09:12 PM  

Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.


We did.  The thing that I find actually scary about all this is how many people the media is able to convince that they didn't.  Over and over again.

Wake me when lazy controversial juicy uncertainty-for-its-own-sake, all opinions are equally valid (especially the dumbest ones) dunnotainment isn't the only thing protecting us from the lies of the big scary government, and maybe I'll squeeze the NSA in.
 
2013-06-11 06:11:06 PM  

Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.


i thought the public was generally aware of this and when polled, the majority were actually mainly ok with it. What did people think the patriot act et. al were there for? that even though we passed laws saying they could do this, and they built data centers (also reported on) that made it possible to do this, that somehow they weren't doing it because they weren't passing out a newsletter at every PTA meeting in podunk ohio?
 
2013-06-11 06:17:52 PM  
I love America!
 
2013-06-11 06:18:05 PM  

Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.


We did.  After the election there's nothing to cover, and Glenn Greenwald is one farking amazing self promoter.
 
2013-06-11 06:21:41 PM  
Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.
 
2013-06-11 06:24:20 PM  

MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.


Yep, but they got away with it each time. The government KNOWS there's no penalty to this shiat; people will be OUTRAGED for a while, then get distracted and forget all about it. Nobody will get voted out, nothing will change, and nobody will care until the next time. This shiat is here to stay. Get used to it.
 
2013-06-11 06:26:38 PM  

MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.


Stuff about the NSA recording and listening to phone calls has been floating around since the 80's. I guess it was all just considered conspiracy theory back then as most people couldn't understand how they would be able to do that, hell if there wasn't a whistle blower now people wouldn't believe it for the same reason probably.
 
2013-06-11 06:26:41 PM  

tlchwi02: Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.

i thought the public was generally aware of this and when polled, the majority were actually mainly ok with it. What did people think the patriot act et. al were there for? that even though we passed laws saying they could do this, and they built data centers (also reported on) that made it possible to do this, that somehow they weren't doing it because they weren't passing out a newsletter at every PTA meeting in podunk ohio?


If you look at the reaction, it's fairly clear what the problem is.  People are going around pointing fingers in order to defend their favorite brand names.  Because as they see it, consciously or not, if their favorite brand names are culpable, so are they.  Unfair, they say.  Forcing Google and Verizon, they say.  If these companies are in bed with the NSA, so are they, and that is outrageous to them because they chose those corporations to swear by.  And if their choice is wrong, maybe they are wrong.

But who do you think suffers the fall out here, the government or the brands?  The government's stated mission is to protect you (simplistic and altogether not very true or not is moot here) It's their stated goal.  The stated goal of these companies is to keep you spending your money on their products.

So what's scarier in the societal sense?  That there were misgivings by the citizens about this that were addressed and modified by the government when it was first found out--years ago-- or that the outrage hit its inexplicable peak several years later when the consumers found out.
 
2013-06-11 06:29:09 PM  
Americans have the attention span of a farking dead gnat.... I think someone is barbequing.
 
2013-06-11 06:29:40 PM  

tlchwi02: Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.

i thought the public was generally aware of this and when polled, the majority were actually mainly ok with it. What did people think the patriot act et. al were there for? that even though we passed laws saying they could do this, and they built data centers (also reported on) that made it possible to do this, that somehow they weren't doing it because they weren't passing out a newsletter at every PTA meeting in podunk ohio?


I'm sure the rubes in Flyover, Iowa knew this type of thing was going on, as long as it happened to those commie fascist soshulist gay queer homo-loving Muslim Catholic Jewish limousine LLIIIIIBBRULZ on the coasts, especially those in New York (they have the best picante sauce) and Los Angeles. That type of thing would never happen to good, wholesome, GAWD-FEARING AMERIKUNZ like themselves.

And if it did, it would be that blah guy in their white house what was doin' it!
/and his time machine
 
2013-06-11 06:31:54 PM  

Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.


Well, there's the whole 'lack of warrants and subpoenae' angle which is now missing, but pretty much.
 
2013-06-11 06:36:53 PM  
BENPRISMAZI.
 
2013-06-11 06:39:23 PM  

thamike: Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.

We did.  The thing that I find actually scary about all this is how many people the media is able to convince that they didn't.  Over and over again.

Wake me when lazy controversial juicy uncertainty-for-its-own-sake, all opinions are equally valid (especially the dumbest ones) dunnotainment isn't the only thing protecting us from the lies of the big scary government, and maybe I'll squeeze the NSA in.


Speaking of bad journalism: I saw this picture in today's paper:

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com

With the caption "Syrian rebels pull an unexploded rocket from a downed plane"

*facepalm*
 
2013-06-11 06:40:32 PM  
What does a a flea and tick prevention treatment for my dog have to do with anything?
 
2013-06-11 06:48:54 PM  

InmanRoshi: We did.  After the election there's nothing to cover, and Glenn Greenwald is one farking amazing self promoter.


Oh, so that's what it is all about.
 
2013-06-11 07:04:59 PM  

MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.


No, it certainly doesn't. But it does expose the blatant hypocrisy of those on the right who think this is such an outrage only NOW.
 
2013-06-11 07:21:09 PM  
Can we stop pretending like this hasn't been going on since at least the founding of the NSA?
 
2013-06-11 07:21:51 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Can we stop pretending like this hasn't been going on since at least the founding of the NSA?


NO. THERES POLITICAL HAY TO BE MADE
 
2013-06-11 07:24:48 PM  
"Hey, it's been happening for a while, let's just let it continue."

That's a great attitude to have.
 
2013-06-11 07:32:19 PM  
All I know is that we should give up our guns. For the children!
 
2013-06-11 07:36:49 PM  
Way too much data for humans to sort..don't sell drugs or support terrorist and the goverment won't ever access you data
 
2013-06-11 07:43:20 PM  

Lando Lincoln: All I know is that we should give up our guns. For the children!


Actually, I think you should take your guns and charge the NSA data center. For Freedom!

I'll wait here.
 
2013-06-11 07:45:08 PM  

swahnhennessy: "Hey, it's been happening for a while, let's just let it continue."

That's a great attitude to have.


We have no choice. Democrats and Republican politicians both love this shiat, and there simply aren't enough politicians on ANY side, left or right, R, D or third-party, that would give up that power, even if they were elected. Remember, getting rid of this shiat would likely have to pass both houses of Congress before getting to the President's desk.

IF (and I mean IF) the protests against this persist long enough, they might repeal the PATRIOT act to placate us...but nothing will change. And a revolution? That's just laughable.

This is the America we live in now. Get used to it.
 
2013-06-11 07:56:10 PM  
2007? 2003? Feh. 1999 called and you should warn them about 9/11.
 
2013-06-11 08:00:25 PM  

swahnhennessy: "Hey, it's been happening for a while, let's just let it continue."

That's a great attitude to have.


Nobody has that attitude. We're just pointing out that every single time this outrage has erupted since the discovery of COINTELPRO in the 60s, once the initial anger subsides and the next scandal comes along, nothing GETS done. And things continue through inertia, not because anyone wants it to, but because of apathy.

Maybe this time will be different, but I'm not hopeful.
 
2013-06-11 08:20:39 PM  
And SS is exactly the same as it was when introduced!  Government programs have never expanded!  What an idiotic submission.
 
2013-06-11 08:27:29 PM  

MyRandomName: And SS is exactly the same as it was when introduced!  Government programs have never expanded!  What an idiotic submission.


So are you implying it was acceptable in 07, but has become UNacceptable now?
 
2013-06-11 08:28:51 PM  

LordJiro: MyRandomName: And SS is exactly the same as it was when introduced!  Government programs have never expanded!  What an idiotic submission.

So are you implying it was acceptable in 07, but has become UNacceptable now?


Well duh, because Bush was targeting ONLY terrorists. Pinky promise.
 
2013-06-11 08:29:26 PM  

Gyrfalcon: swahnhennessy: "Hey, it's been happening for a while, let's just let it continue."

That's a great attitude to have.

Nobody has that attitude. We're just pointing out that every single time this outrage has erupted since the discovery of COINTELPRO in the 60s, once the initial anger subsides and the next scandal comes along, nothing GETS done. And things continue through inertia, not because anyone wants it to, but because of apathy.

Maybe this time will be different, but I'm not hopeful.


The FISA court came about as a direct result of the discovery of CIA and FBI misbehaving in the 60's.

I really am that old.
 
2013-06-11 08:51:28 PM  

LordJiro: MyRandomName: And SS is exactly the same as it was when introduced!  Government programs have never expanded!  What an idiotic submission.

So are you implying it was acceptable in 07, but has become UNacceptable now?


Well this time, it's obamaphones.
 
2013-06-11 08:54:27 PM  

fusillade762: thamike: Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.

We did.  The thing that I find actually scary about all this is how many people the media is able to convince that they didn't.  Over and over again.

Wake me when lazy controversial juicy uncertainty-for-its-own-sake, all opinions are equally valid (especially the dumbest ones) dunnotainment isn't the only thing protecting us from the lies of the big scary government, and maybe I'll squeeze the NSA in.

Speaking of bad journalism: I saw this picture in today's paper:

[bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com image 620x959]

With the caption "Syrian rebels pull an unexploded rocket from a downed plane"

*facepalm*


If we're going to complain about the lack of copyediting in modern reporting, then I'll jump in: yesterday there was an article that mentioned the University of Heidleburg.  Even my spellcheck knows Heidelberg.
 
2013-06-11 09:06:13 PM  
Massive spying and invasions of US citizens privacy was ok back when the party of small government was the one doing it.

/because safety
 
2013-06-11 09:10:17 PM  

OceanVortex: In an attempt to link to relevant fark flame-wars into one today:

What happens when the NSA forces Microsoft to turn over all XBONE Kinnect videos to them?

People are about to buy 'always on' cameras to their living room and plug them into a corporation's network and the NSA will say "thanks citizen!"


You know, if you're that worried about it, you can unplug the damn thing when the xbox isn't on... and also, what makes you think the NSA gives a fark about what faces you make while playing HALO. It doesn't have to be "always on" unless you leave your xbox itself "always on," in which case you're "always moron.:
 
2013-06-11 09:10:57 PM  

MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.


That's what I thought of. And Wired has had plenty of stories around this issue for ages. My shock stems from how they gave the keys to overpaid high school dropouts, which makes me guess that the savvier ones went to foreign governments who can now also tap in.
 
2013-06-11 09:16:04 PM  

T-Servo: MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.

That's what I thought of. And Wired has had plenty of stories around this issue for ages. My shock stems from how they gave the keys to overpaid high school dropouts, which makes me guess that the savvier ones went to foreign governments who can now also tap in.


I'm not so surprised by that... I know a couple HS drop outs who are just Aspies who didn't get along well with the whole concept of schooling, but are absolute friggin wizards when it comes to sitting down and coding/identifying patterns/cryptology. Frankly, our schools suck, and you can fail out of them for being really good at a few things, but not being "well-rounded."
 
2013-06-11 09:25:14 PM  

firefly212: T-Servo: MrEricSir: Or remember the other time back in 2003?

Just because a bad thing is repeated doesn't make it acceptable.

That's what I thought of. And Wired has had plenty of stories around this issue for ages. My shock stems from how they gave the keys to overpaid high school dropouts, which makes me guess that the savvier ones went to foreign governments who can now also tap in.

I'm not so surprised by that... I know a couple HS drop outs who are just Aspies who didn't get along well with the whole concept of schooling, but are absolute friggin wizards when it comes to sitting down and coding/identifying patterns/cryptology. Frankly, our schools suck, and you can fail out of them for being really good at a few things, but not being "well-rounded."


I don't mean to imply that dropouts can't be brilliant, just that when it comes to command and control, the military isn't going to give the secret weapon keys to someone junior... But Booz Allen and NSA did.
 
2013-06-11 09:36:54 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Did they do a show on the USA Today story from 2006?


2007?  Well, this shiat started in 1963.  Ft. Meade MD.  Do the reading kids.  Gov't didn't even acknowledge the existence of the NSA for years.
 
2013-06-11 10:08:48 PM  

AirForceVet: Well, isn't it nice that the government funded PBS broke the story on the NSA actions back in 2007?

Sort of like when PBS' Great American Dream Machine was censored by the government in 1971 when they were about to broadcast the story how the FBI infiltrated liberal groups to see if they opposed the Vietnam War, against President Nixon, etc.


The difference is that PBS receives almost no money from the government today, whereas forty years ago, they relied on it.  By slashing funding, the GOP lost government control of PBS.

Fontline is actually produced by an independent non-profit which gets no government money.  They sell their show to PBS who can either air it or not.
 
2013-06-11 10:21:37 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: fusillade762: thamike: Philbb: I guess this is why I'm not all that outraged at this "scandal". I thought we already knew this was happening.

We did.  The thing that I find actually scary about all this is how many people the media is able to convince that they didn't.  Over and over again.

Wake me when lazy controversial juicy uncertainty-for-its-own-sake, all opinions are equally valid (especially the dumbest ones) dunnotainment isn't the only thing protecting us from the lies of the big scary government, and maybe I'll squeeze the NSA in.

Speaking of bad journalism: I saw this picture in today's paper:

[bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com image 620x959]

With the caption "Syrian rebels pull an unexploded rocket from a downed plane"

*facepalm*

If we're going to complain about the lack of copyediting in modern reporting, then I'll jump in: yesterday there was an article that mentioned the University of Heidleburg.  Even my spellcheck knows Heidelberg.


I need that spell-check. Mine wants to spell 'tits' whenever I want to spell 'totally'. But I think this is an argument of magnitude. I don't mean to invalidate your story. I'm obviously impressed with your spell-check but if one has an ignorant spell-check, it would be easy enough to mistake a 'u' and an 'e'.

I think fusillade762 was trying to illustrate how absurd it is that the newspaper refers to the men holding a rocket when it is quite clearly an AK47.
 
2013-06-11 10:41:18 PM  
This makes sense. Obama used his time machine to go back before he was elected President to start spying on everyone that could know about his real birth certificate.
 
2013-06-11 11:04:34 PM  

404 page not found: I think fusillade762 was trying to illustrate how absurd it is that the newspaper refers to the men holding a rocket when it is quite clearly an AK47.


Geez, how can you not know that it's an espresso machine. No, no, it's a snow cone maker.

is it a water heater?
 
2013-06-11 11:17:04 PM  
I seriously didn't understand why this was "news". It had been covered multiple times. Anyone paying ANY attention knew this was happening.

That's why the ACLU suddenly suing over this REEKS of "give us money". Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE counts on Americans being stupid and clueless.

/helluva business plan
 
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