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(ESPN)   Indians Fans: "Oh no, our Closer is injured, we're doomed." Indians: "Hey, don't worry guys..." Indians Fans: "Why not?" Indians: "You don't need a Closer to lose every game." Indians Fans: "Sigh." Indians: "TROLOLOL"   (scores.espn.go.com) divider line 56
    More: Fail, Lance Berkman, Indians Fans, Scott Kazmir, Indians, Rangers, Elvis Andrus, Jason Kipnis, Mike Aviles  
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806 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Jun 2013 at 7:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-11 01:22:30 AM
fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-06-11 01:37:13 AM
Is Swisher still not hitting?
 
2013-06-11 01:43:01 AM

violentsalvation: Is Swisher still not hitting?


Swisher's coming out of it, he's had hits in the last couple games now. Problem right now is that our pitching is in f*cking chaos with Perez, Myers and McAllister being DL'd. Whole lot of winnable games thrown away over the past few weeks because of the starters digging us into early holes.

But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.
 
2013-06-11 01:54:21 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-11 01:58:16 AM

CavalierEternal: But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.


I don't know what you did with that guy, but it seems to be working.
 
2013-06-11 02:16:50 AM

violentsalvation: CavalierEternal: But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.

I don't know what you did with that guy, but it seems to be working.


I think it pretty much came down to Terry going, "Ryan, this is the bench. This is where you live. If you're good, we'll let you come out and play once in a while, otherwise your job is to hangout here and keep Sandy Alomar company."
 
2013-06-11 02:34:46 AM

violentsalvation: CavalierEternal: But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.

I don't know what you did with that guy, but it seems to be working.


I looked up his stats a moment ago:  .292 batting average???  One of my catchphrases last year was that he couldn't outhit Gene Rayburn.
 
2013-06-11 03:30:25 AM

buckeyebrain: violentsalvation: CavalierEternal: But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.

I don't know what you did with that guy, but it seems to be working.

I looked up his stats a moment ago:  .292 batting average???  One of my catchphrases last year was that he couldn't outhit Gene Rayburn.


Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.
 
2013-06-11 07:48:01 AM
As a Royals fan I support this collapse of Cleveland.
 
2013-06-11 08:03:13 AM
This headline sucks
 
2013-06-11 08:05:37 AM
Ah summertime. That wonderful time of the year when road congestion is replaced by road construction, comfortable temperatures are replaced by oppressive heat and humidity, and the Cleveland Indians perform their annual standings swan dive.

/Cleveland resident, but can't stand (most) Ohio sports teams
//The Cleveland sports media sounds suicidal right now
 
2013-06-11 08:09:59 AM
The first day of summer is:

A) the summer solstice.
B) June 20th.
C) the day the Cleveland Indians are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-11 08:47:45 AM
Looks like the Tribe needs to schedule more home games with the Reds.

/Reds fan
//Not having Asdrubal won't help either.
 
2013-06-11 08:48:31 AM
media.cleveland.com

/ I remember, as a kid in the 70s, that the *OFFICIAL* yearly slide into the cellar commenced after the 4th of July Fireworks Extravaganza at Municipal Stadium (RIP)
 
2013-06-11 08:52:02 AM

buckeyebrain: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x225]


Relevant since 1948.
 
2013-06-11 08:59:00 AM
Unless his name is Mariano Rivera, having a flat out closer can be overrated.
 
2013-06-11 09:19:24 AM
Also having one of your main bullpen guys get arrested for having pot mailed to his house isn't going to help either.
 
2013-06-11 09:44:06 AM
The whole AL Central is just handing this division to the Tigers, which makes this another vomit-inducing season.
 
2013-06-11 09:46:14 AM
goddamnitsomuch
 
2013-06-11 09:48:40 AM

SlagginOff: The whole AL Central is just handing this division to the Tigers, which makes this another vomit-inducing season.




I still have the slim hope KC might get interesting.
 
2013-06-11 09:57:27 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: SlagginOff: The whole AL Central is just handing this division to the Tigers, which makes this another vomit-inducing season.

I still have the slim hope KC might get interesting.


I'm a Sox fan with no hope for the season (obviously), but I'd be rooting for KC if they can pull it off. If the tigers do win it, I'd like to either see a sweep out of the first round or a heart-breaking loss in game 7 of the World Series.

Cardinals have always been my second team because of family in St. Louis when I was growing up, so at least my secondary rooting interest is doing well.
 
2013-06-11 10:01:45 AM
Unfortunately, Mike and Mike have been a kiss of death of sorts for the Tribe in recent years; the combined winning percentage of the 2011 and 2012 Indians prior to their visit: .635. After: .404. Yet both Mikes remain confident their curse will end soon.

The same thing happened this year.
 
2013-06-11 10:09:22 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: SlagginOff: The whole AL Central is just handing this division to the Tigers, which makes this another vomit-inducing season.

I still have the slim hope KC might get interesting.


Still early in the season.  I wouldn't count any of the AL Central out, except the Twins.
 
2013-06-11 10:16:43 AM

violentsalvation: Is Swisher still not hitting?


He should be starting to perk up now, he's always off at the beginning of the season.
 
2013-06-11 10:24:15 AM

SlagginOff: Mid_mo_mad_man: SlagginOff: The whole AL Central is just handing this division to the Tigers, which makes this another vomit-inducing season.

I still have the slim hope KC might get interesting.

I'm a Sox fan with no hope for the season (obviously), but I'd be rooting for KC if they can pull it off. If the tigers do win it, I'd like to either see a sweep out of the first round or a heart-breaking loss in game 7 of the World Series.

Cardinals have always been my second team because of family in St. Louis when I was growing up, so at least my secondary rooting interest is doing well.




Ty I will be rooting for KC wensday afternoon. Sheilds vs Verlander pitching. Sheilds for some reason is pitching better this year then him. Who would have thunked it?
 
2013-06-11 10:29:09 AM

meanmutton: I wouldn't count any of the AL Central out, except the Twins.


The Sox managed to completely out-suck the Cubs for 3 games a couple weeks ago.  Best we can hope is to get some prospects for Konerko as he's about the only valuable guy on the roster.
 
2013-06-11 10:29:53 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Ty I will be rooting for KC wensday afternoon. Sheilds vs Verlander pitching. Sheilds for some reason is pitching better this year then him. Who would have thunked it?


Verlander has been off a bit this season.  Which means that instead of being mind-blowingly dominant, he's just very, very, very good.
 
2013-06-11 10:36:59 AM

Guelph35: meanmutton: I wouldn't count any of the AL Central out, except the Twins.

The Sox managed to completely out-suck the Cubs for 3 games a couple weeks ago.  Best we can hope is to get some prospects for Konerko as he's about the only valuable guy on the roster.


Alex Rios, Jake Peavey, Adam Dunn, Matt Lindstrom, or Matt Thornton would have trade value.
 
2013-06-11 10:38:44 AM
www.bjmassey.com
 
2013-06-11 11:36:10 AM

Guelph35: meanmutton: I wouldn't count any of the AL Central out, except the Twins.

The Sox managed to completely out-suck the Cubs for 3 games a couple weeks ago.  Best we can hope is to get some prospects for Konerko as he's about the only valuable guy on the roster.


I'd say the BEST we can hope for is that Reinsdorf sells. 2005 doesn't give this front office a free pass for 30+ years of mediocrity.
 
2013-06-11 11:58:16 AM
As a Tigers fan I would like to thank the rest of the AL central for covering up our horrendous road record, lack of a bullpen and a closer who could not start for a little league team by sucking.
 
2013-06-11 12:42:11 PM
www.clevelandleader.com

There's always next year.  While I should know better by now, I always like to think there's still a chance so long as we're not in double digits in games back at the all star break.  But, unless the ship rights itself really fast, the only thing to look forward to at the Jake in August will be the $4 beers.  At that price you can at least attempt to numb the pain without going broke.
 
2013-06-11 12:55:16 PM
violentsalvation:

Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.

Avila, Valverde, V-Mart, Valverde, Don Kelly and Valverde are the targets of my wrath this year.
 
2013-06-11 01:09:31 PM

Yakk: As a Tigers fan I would like to thank the rest of the AL central for covering up our horrendous road record, lack of a bullpen and a closer who could not start for a little league team by sucking.


I don't think it's that dissimilar from last year, except that this year you don't get to wait for the White Sox to choke away the division lead. I'm sure they'll have a late season charge to ensure third place, thus choking away a good draft pick.
 
2013-06-11 01:18:47 PM
This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.
 
2013-06-11 01:43:19 PM

chimp_ninja: This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.


That's why I like the Tigers approach of having their worst pitcher be their closer. I don't have to worry about him coming in a tie game in the 8th and I know a three run game in the ninth will be an exciting finish.
 
2013-06-11 01:46:27 PM

buckeyebrain: violentsalvation:

Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.

Avila, Valverde, V-Mart, Valverde, Don Kelly and Valverde are the targets of my wrath this year.


V-Mart's had a slow start but he's been awesome.

Also, Don Kelly is exactly what he is -- the bench guy who gets spot duty.  No one has a good guy who does that job.  If he was good, he'd be a starter somewhere.
 
2013-06-11 01:51:31 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: chimp_ninja: This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.

That's why I like the Tigers approach of having their worst pitcher be their closer. I don't have to worry about him coming in a tie game in the 8th and I know a three run game in the ninth will be an exciting finish.


Phil Coke is back to closing games?
 
2013-06-11 02:47:46 PM

meanmutton: You're the jerk... jerk: chimp_ninja: This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.

That's why I like the Tigers approach of having their worst pitcher be their closer. I don't have to worry about him coming in a tie game in the 8th and I know a three run game in the ninth will be an exciting finish.

Phil Coke is back to closing games?


Coke is above replacement level and has been hit by bad luck fielding. Valverde is just terrible
 
2013-06-11 03:43:18 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: meanmutton: You're the jerk... jerk: chimp_ninja: This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.

That's why I like the Tigers approach of having their worst pitcher be their closer. I don't have to worry about him coming in a tie game in the 8th and I know a three run game in the ninth will be an exciting finish.

Phil Coke is back to closing games?

Coke is above replacement level and has been hit by bad luck fielding. Valverde is just terrible


ESPN's WAR has Phil Coke at -0.1 and Valverde at 0.2.  Either way, neither are good.
 
2013-06-11 03:49:27 PM

buckeyebrain: violentsalvation:

Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.

Avila, Valverde, V-Mart, Valverde, Don Kelly and Valverde are the targets of my wrath this year.


I don't even get mad at Valverde anymore. I yell at Leyland for putting him in with anything less than a 10 run lead.
 
2013-06-11 03:54:42 PM

meanmutton: You're the jerk... jerk: meanmutton: You're the jerk... jerk: chimp_ninja: This game actually had a good illustration of why having "a closer" who only pitches the 9th inning is dumb.

Top of the 7th, 3-3 tie.  Kazmir still in.  Gives up a double and an infield single.  1st and 3rd, no outs.  Coming up is a lefty, a righty, and a switch hitter, so no real platoon situation in play.

Obviously a crucial situation!  Perhaps this would be a good time to bring in your best reliever!

Instead, the Indians decide to throw in Nick Hagadone, with his 5.89 career ERA and 5.4 walks/9 IP.

That's why I like the Tigers approach of having their worst pitcher be their closer. I don't have to worry about him coming in a tie game in the 8th and I know a three run game in the ninth will be an exciting finish.

Phil Coke is back to closing games?

Coke is above replacement level and has been hit by bad luck fielding. Valverde is just terrible

ESPN's WAR has Phil Coke at -0.1 and Valverde at 0.2.  Either way, neither are good.


fWAR >>>> rWAR for pitchers
 
2013-06-11 04:15:21 PM

violentsalvation: buckeyebrain: violentsalvation:

Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.

Avila, Valverde, V-Mart, Valverde, Don Kelly and Valverde are the targets of my wrath this year.

I don't even get mad at Valverde anymore. I yell at Leyland for putting him in with anything less than a 10 run lead.


Who do you want in there instead?  As bad as he's been, he's been better than anyone else they have or can get.

Is there really anyone out there who's even remotely available that they can trade for who would clearly be better?  What would they have to give up to get it?

The Tigers are going to win based on the bats of Cabrerra, Fielder, Jackson, Hunter, Peraulta, and V-Mart plus their insanely good starting pitching (when Verlander has been your 3rd best starting pitcher, you know your other two are great).
 
2013-06-11 04:22:09 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: fWAR >>>> rWAR for pitchers


The Tigers are almost an outlier in how bad their defense is.  If it wasn't for Andy Dirks and Infante, they would set records.  FIP and its relatives are really necessary to assess their pitching.

I still have no idea why fast hitters don't bunt constantly against them.  Bunters are 13-for-22 plus a ROE this year, and it's no fluke when you look at their corner infielders and catcher.
 
2013-06-11 04:28:10 PM

chimp_ninja: You're the jerk... jerk: fWAR >>>> rWAR for pitchers

The Tigers are almost an outlier in how bad their defense is.  If it wasn't for Andy Dirks and Infante, they would set records.  FIP and its relatives are really necessary to assess their pitching.

I still have no idea why fast hitters don't bunt constantly against them.  Bunters are 13-for-22 plus a ROE this year, and it's no fluke when you look at their corner infielders and catcher.


Bunting doesn't work if the opponent is expecting it, even with the poor range of Cabrera.
 
2013-06-11 04:40:30 PM

meanmutton: Who do you want in there instead?  As bad as he's been, he's been better than anyone else they have or can get.


Joaquin Benoit was doing a fine job, then they brought Valverde back because... I have no idea, really.

Now, if you wanna say Benoit's more valuable in the 8th, that's reasonable.
 
2013-06-11 04:43:07 PM

chimp_ninja: You're the jerk... jerk: fWAR >>>> rWAR for pitchers

The Tigers are almost an outlier in how bad their defense is.  If it wasn't for Andy Dirks and Infante, they would set records.  FIP and its relatives are really necessary to assess their pitching.

I still have no idea why fast hitters don't bunt constantly against them.  Bunters are 13-for-22 plus a ROE this year, and it's no fluke when you look at their corner infielders and catcher.


Terrible defense but very good hitting and pitching. I am not down on the season, I see a good chance of another WS trip.

Isn't fWAR based on xFIP?
 
2013-06-11 04:46:53 PM

meanmutton: violentsalvation: buckeyebrain: violentsalvation:

Last year I couldn't want him off the Tigers roster hard enough. But I'm happy to see him playing so well. This year I'm screaming at Avila.

Avila, Valverde, V-Mart, Valverde, Don Kelly and Valverde are the targets of my wrath this year.

I don't even get mad at Valverde anymore. I yell at Leyland for putting him in with anything less than a 10 run lead.

Who do you want in there instead?  As bad as he's been, he's been better than anyone else they have or can get.

Is there really anyone out there who's even remotely available that they can trade for who would clearly be better?  What would they have to give up to get it?

The Tigers are going to win based on the bats of Cabrerra, Fielder, Jackson, Hunter, Peraulta, and V-Mart plus their insanely good starting pitching (when Verlander has been your 3rd best starting pitcher, you know your other two are great).


There is nobody else, unfortunately. At least his performance isn't quite as maddening as last season.
 
2013-06-11 05:23:52 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: Isn't fWAR based on xFIP?


Yup.  I was agreeing.  Just providing justification. :)

meanmutton: Bunting doesn't work if the opponent is expecting it, even with the poor range of Cabrera.


True.  But even if you draw him in by showing your willingness to bunt, that's going to stress his already-limited lateral range if you swing away.  Plus, the Tigers will basically never pull him for a defensive replacement, so you can try it in late innings when smallball is more sensible.

Bunting is usually bad, but bunting for hits with a .500+ AVG is awesome.
 
2013-06-11 08:07:25 PM

violentsalvation: CavalierEternal: But at least Ryan Raburn's been great off the bench so far this year so, ya know...that's going on.

I don't know what you did with that guy, but it seems to be working.


Oh god, Swisher's been moved up to 3rd so that Raburn can hit cleanup.

God help us all...
 
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