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(White House)   In less than 24 hours, a petition to pardon Edward Snowden of any potential wrongdoing has already gained almost 25,000 signatures   (petitions.whitehouse.gov) divider line 231
    More: Cool, misconduct, petitions  
•       •       •

5986 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2013 at 6:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



231 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-10 05:24:40 PM
While the one to take him out back and shoot him in the head has twice that.
 
2013-06-10 05:27:40 PM
I'm torn between my love of whistleblowers and my hatred of petitions.
 
2013-06-10 05:31:58 PM
well that settles it!
 
2013-06-10 05:32:19 PM
Internet petitions are for people who want to "do something" without actually doing anything.

As far as Snowden is concerned, I'm of two minds. On one hand it pisses me off that people who are entrusted with
classified information don't see to give a shiat about their responsibility. On the other hand, how else are we going
to find out some of this shiat. So far, I'm leaning pretty far toward the latter.
 
2013-06-10 05:38:17 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: nternet petitions are for people who want to "do something" without actually doing anything.


Meanwhile, I'm typing this with one hand and "giving Joe the bird" with the other.
 
2013-06-10 05:40:24 PM
I don't know how whistleblower laws work, but I think they should be like justifiable homicide defenses, you go to trial, and if you can convince a jury of your peers that you only revealed what you had to to get public scrutiny on secret illegal government activity, you get acquitted, if not, have fun with prison. This guy has a much better case than Bradley Manning, but it doesn't look like what he revealed was in any way illegal.
 
2013-06-10 05:48:05 PM
Now they know whose phones to tap!
 
2013-06-10 05:49:18 PM
If I sign that, black helicopters will be hovering above my house.
 
2013-06-10 05:51:33 PM
Dude is a hero.
 
2013-06-10 06:04:55 PM
news flask, clicking a link takes zero effort
 
2013-06-10 06:05:21 PM
BFD
 
2013-06-10 06:07:02 PM

tbhouston: news flask, clicking a link takes zero effort


I was gonna FTFY but then I decided that it's far more Fark just the way it is :)
 
2013-06-10 06:07:39 PM
25,000 now on the government's shiat list / kill list
 
2013-06-10 06:08:04 PM

digitalrain: tbhouston: news flask, clicking a link takes zero effort

I was gonna FTFY but then I decided that it's far more Fark just the way it is :)


Clearly a Freudian sip. :)
 
2013-06-10 06:08:29 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Internet petitions are for people who want to "do something" without actually doing anything.

As far as Snowden is concerned, I'm of two minds. On one hand it pisses me off that people who are entrusted with
classified information don't see to give a shiat about their responsibility. On the other hand, how else are we going
to find out some of this shiat. So far, I'm leaning pretty far toward the latter.


If he had gone to a sympathetic senator or congressman (I've seen suggested either of the Pauls) then I'd be pretty open-minded about this.  Then he could have spilled it to someone who cared and had clearance to hear about it and access to actually doing something about it.

But, he spilled it to the Washington Post.  My sympathy level drops dramatically.
 
2013-06-10 06:08:41 PM
Yes, because an online piece of rhetoric written and signed by people who still don't even know what exactly the government is doing with their data should totally be given the gravitas of a federal investigation into a whistleblower. And this gets greenlit. Americans are sad.
 
2013-06-10 06:09:52 PM
Yeah, and the petition for Texas to secede got more than 125,000. Internet petitions aren't worth the paper they're printed on. And derp crosses partisan lines.
 
2013-06-10 06:10:55 PM
My father worked for the Military and the U.S government for 35 yrs. He used to tell me there is a reason we are number one in the world and sometimes it takes measures that most people would not understand because the freedom we have makes so they don't have to understand.
I'm on the fence with this guy.
 
2013-06-10 06:11:16 PM

Eirik: Some Bass Playing Guy: Internet petitions are for people who want to "do something" without actually doing anything.

As far as Snowden is concerned, I'm of two minds. On one hand it pisses me off that people who are entrusted with
classified information don't see to give a shiat about their responsibility. On the other hand, how else are we going
to find out some of this shiat. So far, I'm leaning pretty far toward the latter.

If he had gone to a sympathetic senator or congressman (I've seen suggested either of the Pauls) then I'd be pretty open-minded about this.  Then he could have spilled it to someone who cared and had clearance to hear about it and access to actually doing something about it.

But, he spilled it to the Washington Post.  My sympathy level drops dramatically.


And he ran for Communist China.
 
2013-06-10 06:11:56 PM

nmrsnr: I don't know how whistleblower laws work, but I think they should be like justifiable homicide defenses, you go to trial, and if you can convince a jury of your peers that you only revealed what you had to to get public scrutiny on secret illegal government activity, you get acquitted, if not, have fun with prison. This guy has a much better case than Bradley Manning, but it doesn't look like what he revealed was in any way illegal.


Except for the fact the slides had valid classification markings, in this case TS/SI/ORCON/NOFORN.  Mr. Snowden worked for the CIA, and presumably had a TS/SCI level clearance giving him legal access to the document, which he knew was SCI material. . .and involved him signing a SF-312 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, where he made a legally binding promise to the US government to not disclose classified information he would encounter through that access, under severe penalty of law.

Everything Bradley Manning leaked, all 100,000+ documents, was only up to the S/NOFORN level, this was higher classification than that.  On that level, what he did was legally worse than most of the charges against Manning.
 
2013-06-10 06:12:21 PM

Eirik: But, he spilled it to the Washington Post. My sympathy level drops dramatically


I'm sure the Post paid a pretty penny for it as well.
 
2013-06-10 06:12:41 PM
Yeah, I would be more on the government's side if everything wasn't classified by default nowadays for "national security" when it involves what is being done with information about you collected without your consent from sources that many (for better or worse) take to be private. If he didn't leak it, the government damn sure wouldn't see fit to tell the plebs about it.
 
2013-06-10 06:12:52 PM

jehovahs witness protection: If I sign that, black helicopters will be hovering above my house.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-10 06:12:59 PM
More people on their hitlist.

/hi NSA
 
2013-06-10 06:13:10 PM

jehovahs witness protection: If I sign that, black helicopters will be hovering above my house.


They're already above your house, you just can't see them with their cloaking devices on.
 
2013-06-10 06:15:48 PM
I can see it now.  YOU get an audit, and YOU get an audit, and YOU get an audit,...

/ I love you every-watching overlords !
 
2013-06-10 06:16:16 PM

Eirik: I've seen suggested either of the Pauls


lol
 
2013-06-10 06:16:30 PM
Soooooo, "leaks" aren't water sports? My bad.
 
2013-06-10 06:16:45 PM

bobrktb: My father worked for the Military and the U.S government for 35 yrs. He used to tell me there is a reason we are number one in the world and sometimes it takes measures that most people would not understand because the freedom we have makes so they don't have to understand.
I'm on the fence with this guy.


i.ytimg.com
 
2013-06-10 06:16:46 PM
Ed Snowden? The traitorous traitor?
Isn't he guilty of revealing America's most cunning and stylish of manscaping secrets?
I won't sign a petition, but if he judges on American Idol, I'll vote on that episode to show my support
for this next, last generation of a doomed society.
 
2013-06-10 06:16:53 PM

Popcorn Johnny: While the one to take him out back and shoot him in the head has twice that.


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-06-10 06:16:54 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: And he ran for Communist China.


Hong Kong has specific advantages for those seeking various protections, even with an extradition treaty. You don't have to be communist to look out for your own ass.
 
2013-06-10 06:17:19 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Internet petitions are for people who want to "do something" without actually doing anything.

As far as Snowden is concerned, I'm of two minds. On one hand it pisses me off that people who are entrusted with
classified information don't see to give a shiat about their responsibility. On the other hand, how else are we going
to find out some of this shiat. So far, I'm leaning pretty far toward the latter.


You hate Obama.
 
2013-06-10 06:17:52 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Now they know whose phones to tap!


And we're done here.
 
2013-06-10 06:18:03 PM

bobrktb: Eirik: But, he spilled it to the Washington Post. My sympathy level drops dramatically

I'm sure the Post paid a pretty penny for it as well.


I thought it was the Guardian that first got wind of this?
 
2013-06-10 06:18:50 PM

bobrktb: My father worked for the Military and the U.S government for 35 yrs. He used to tell me there is a reason we are number one in the world and sometimes it takes measures that most people would not understand because the freedom we have makes so they don't have to understand.
I'm on the fence with this guy.


www.enterstageright.com

Is this your dad?

I understand his sentiments in whatever small way a civilian who didn't serve for decades can. I'll just leave this letter from FDR for the Snowdens of the world.

Appeal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt on Aerial Bombardment of Civilian Populations, September 1, 1939

The President of the United States to the Governments of France, Germany, Italy, Poland and His Britannic Majesty, September 1, 1939


The ruthless bombing from the air of civilians in unfortified centers of population during the course of the hostilities which have raged in various quarters of the earth during the past few years, which has resulted in the maiming and in the death of thousands of defenseless men, women, and children, has sickened the hearts of every civilized man and woman, and has profoundly shocked the conscience of humanity.

If resort is had to this form of inhuman barbarism during the period of the tragic conflagration with which the world is now confronted, hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings who have no responsibility for, and who are not even remotely participating in, the hostilities which have now broken out, will lose their lives. I am therefore addressing this urgent appeal to every government which may be engaged in hostilities publicly to affirm its determination that its armed forces shall in no event, and under no circumstances, undertake the bombardment from the air of civilian populations or of unfortified cities, upon the understanding that these same rules of warfare will be scrupulously observed by all of their opponents. I request an immediate reply.


Six years after FDR wrote this letter, the US alone had killed several hundred thousand civilians by bombing.

We can wax about how wonderful a world we want to live in and icky-poo-poo this one is but it could be a whole lot worse. And if we didn't stop our enemies using the NSA, we would have to do immoral things that would dwarf WWII.
 
2013-06-10 06:18:59 PM

Silverstaff: nmrsnr: I don't know how whistleblower laws work, but I think they should be like justifiable homicide defenses, you go to trial, and if you can convince a jury of your peers that you only revealed what you had to to get public scrutiny on secret illegal government activity, you get acquitted, if not, have fun with prison. This guy has a much better case than Bradley Manning, but it doesn't look like what he revealed was in any way illegal.

Except for the fact the slides had valid classification markings, in this case TS/SI/ORCON/NOFORN.  Mr. Snowden worked for the CIA, and presumably had a TS/SCI level clearance giving him legal access to the document, which he knew was SCI material. . .and involved him signing a SF-312 Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement, where he made a legally binding promise to the US government to not disclose classified information he would encounter through that access, under severe penalty of law.

Everything Bradley Manning leaked, all 100,000+ documents, was only up to the S/NOFORN level, this was higher classification than that.  On that level, what he did was legally worse than most of the charges against Manning.


Interesting.
A different aspect is that Manning seemed to take the approach of "secrets are bad, so here are a bunch of documents, see what you can find" which I don't see as being a valid whistle blower defense.
 
2013-06-10 06:20:45 PM
good luck with that.
 
2013-06-10 06:22:11 PM

jehovahs witness protection: If I sign that, black helicopters will be hovering above my house.


Not with the sequestration in effect. Helicopters are too expensive. They'll send the black SUVs instead.
 
2013-06-10 06:22:14 PM
Good luck with that. I think this administration made it abundantly clear that, if they could, they would shoot whistleblowers in the head on national television - as it is, they're still torturing Bradley Manning. Years of imprisonment without trial, violating even U.N. standards for prisoner treatment, culminating in a huge trial for which this administration hopes will serve as a guidepost of intimidation for anyone else who would gainsay or undermine our masters.

Mr. Snowden has the right friggin' idea - stay in exile, and hope that the CIA can't figure out how to fly a drone in Hong Kong. That's the only way he's going to remain safe in the post-9/11, pro-authoritarian United States.
 
2013-06-10 06:22:58 PM

Silverstaff: Everything Bradley Manning leaked, all 100,000+ documents, was only up to the S/NOFORN level, this was higher classification than that.  On that level, what he did was legally worse than most of the charges against Manning.


That really doesn't matter much, IMO, there could be a document that is eyes-only for the President and the Joint Chiefs, but if it showed Obama personally selling nuclear material to Iran then the person who leaks it is still A-OK as a whistleblower, because that shiat is super illegal.

Snowden released a very limited number of documents because he believed that they showed the government involved in illegal activities. It looks like they don't, but that is the action a whistleblower would take. Bradley Manning, on the other hand, released 100K+ documents for what appears to be shiats and giggles, since there is no way he could have known what over half of those documents contain, so there's no possible whistleblowing justification there. He just broke the law, straight up.
 
2013-06-10 06:23:00 PM
At least when the hippies had an issue with the government, they protested. Even if they were high as a kite. Even when Bush was leading us into Gulf War 2, there were protests.

It's revealed that the government is conducting surveillance on a scale we really couldn't have imagined, and the only thing to come of it is an online petition?
 
2013-06-10 06:23:09 PM

FlyingBacon: More people on their hitlist.

/hi NSA


you can have fun with the NSA.  Post pictures of roosters and soccer balls then tell them they're looking at your cock and balls.  Perverts, all of them
 
2013-06-10 06:26:03 PM
And Farkers were calling me paranoid about not using Google, Skype, using cash as often as possible, etc.
 
2013-06-10 06:26:51 PM

skinink: At least when the hippies had an issue with the government, they protested. Even if they were high as a kite. Even when Bush was leading us into Gulf War 2, there were protests.

It's revealed that the government is conducting surveillance on a scale we really couldn't have imagined, and the only thing to come of it is an online petition?


It's not the only thing - folks are organizing a massive march/protest on the fourth, I believe.
 
2013-06-10 06:27:16 PM
well I guess I'm in the minority then because I think he's a traitor.
A traitor entitled to due process, but a traitor nonetheless.
 
2013-06-10 06:27:43 PM

nmrsnr: Silverstaff: Everything Bradley Manning leaked, all 100,000+ documents, was only up to the S/NOFORN level, this was higher classification than that.  On that level, what he did was legally worse than most of the charges against Manning.

That really doesn't matter much, IMO, there could be a document that is eyes-only for the President and the Joint Chiefs, but if it showed Obama personally selling nuclear material to Iran then the person who leaks it is still A-OK as a whistleblower, because that shiat is super illegal.

Snowden released a very limited number of documents because he believed that they showed the government involved in illegal activities. It looks like they don't, but that is the action a whistleblower would take. Bradley Manning, on the other hand, released 100K+ documents for what appears to be shiats and giggles, since there is no way he could have known what over half of those documents contain, so there's no possible whistleblowing justification there. He just broke the law, straight up.


Agree on Manning.
But isn't one issue here is that they show activity which is not illegal?
I don't know how that would be covered under any whistle blower protection (if there is such thing for government documents).
 
2013-06-10 06:28:43 PM

skinink: At least when the hippies had an issue with the government, they protested. Even if they were high as a kite. Even when Bush was leading us into Gulf War 2, there were protests. It's revealed that the government is conducting surveillance on a scale we really couldn't have imagined, and the only thing to come of it is an online petition?


Americans need something really both concrete and personal to come out in force of. People didn't take to the streets against the Bush Administration over just warrantless wiretapping, either.
 
2013-06-10 06:28:45 PM

2wolves: And Farkers were calling me paranoid about not using Google, Skype, using cash as often as possible, etc.


...how did you pay for your TF membership? ;)
 
2013-06-10 06:29:07 PM
Yeah, and if you West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark-that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
 
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