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(Opposing Views)   You're a gun store owner and the state's background check law is creating an inconvenience. Do you a.) abide by it anyway, realizing it's for the greater good, b.) abide by it, and send an angry letter to your congressman or c.) ignore it?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 135
    More: Stupid, Maryland State Police, background checks, firearms  
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4763 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2013 at 5:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-10 01:51:38 PM
I'd choose B)
 
2013-06-10 01:59:48 PM
Your congressman doesn't read those letters. It's always some intern with a form letter and an autopen.
 
2013-06-10 02:56:46 PM
Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.
 
2013-06-10 03:02:45 PM
By next week you'll be hearing about how 0bama sicced his dogs from the ATFE on those poor, oppressed conservative gun store owners.
 
2013-06-10 03:44:17 PM
And pretty soon you are going to find out that a person who shouldn't have been able to buy a gun bought one from one of these frustrated gun store owners and used it in a crime.
 
2013-06-10 04:35:57 PM

Aarontology: Your congressman doesn't read those letters. It's always some intern with a form letter and an autopen.


Yep. That's bureaucracy for you, it's the scariest thing about the gooberment right now. About the only way to get attention for your cause is with a petition, a lot of friends on Facebook, social grace, and luck
 
2013-06-10 05:41:14 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.


Um, they steal guns. Honest people buy them.
 
2013-06-10 05:43:19 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-06-10 05:43:38 PM
Want to know how I know you people upthread did not read TFA?

/Hint: Maryland State Police
 
2013-06-10 05:44:26 PM

jehovahs witness protection: cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.

Um, they steal guns. Honest people buy them.


Not entirely true. Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally.
 
2013-06-10 05:44:48 PM
Trolltastic headline, subtard, and it's pretty easy to tell who actually RTFA.
 
2013-06-10 05:45:21 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Want to know how I know you people upthread did not read TFA?

/Hint: Maryland State Police


You, too, subby: Go put your nose in the corner.
 
2013-06-10 05:45:51 PM
D. shoot someone
 
2013-06-10 05:45:51 PM

Gecko Gingrich: By next week you'll be hearing about how 0bama sicced his dogs from the ATFE on those poor, oppressed conservative gun store owners.


I think that the gun stores would have to be breaking some kind of law for that to happen.
 
2013-06-10 05:46:03 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.


No, they can still use the federal instant background check to screen out felons. This is a separate Maryland requirement.
 
2013-06-10 05:46:28 PM
If they don't want to wait 70 days, these gun store owners should have to sign an affidavit and pay for some sort of liability bond pending the background check results.

I know, I know. I may as well wipe my ass with the Bill of Rights.
 
2013-06-10 05:46:29 PM

Aarontology: Your congressman doesn't read those letters. It's always some intern with a form letter and an autopen.


That's okay.  Most people don't write the letters they send, either.  Astroturf FTW.
 
2013-06-10 05:47:48 PM
I'm pro control but facing multiple months delay I'd choose C too.
 
2013-06-10 05:48:07 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.


Seems like a nice way to make everyone you can a criminal - keep shirking your obligation to pass background checks within the time required by law and then be there to pick up the perp when some finally get tired and say "screw it" and sell the guy the gun.
 
2013-06-10 05:48:24 PM

jehovahs witness protection: cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.

Um, they steal guns. Honest people buy them.


Criminals specialize. Burglars steal guns, but stickup men and drug dealers buy theirs (either legally, or from burglars).
 
2013-06-10 05:48:29 PM
The law clearly states that after seven days the dealer can release the gun if the state has not completed the check.  This is to prevent the state from stonewalling sales by "losing" requests or severely under-funding the agency responsible for doing their checks.

Maryland buyers still have to file a 4473 and pass the federal background check, so if the state is forwarding their records properly then there shouldn't be an issue.
 
2013-06-10 05:48:56 PM
>The law says the gun should be released in seven days.

>Maryland police are requesting as much as 10 weeks to process the background checks

they are still passing their NICS checks I assume? if so give them the gun after 7 days, the state cannot disregard regulations with impunity while demanding the people follow those same regulations.
 
2013-06-10 05:49:22 PM

HeadLever: cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.

Seems like a nice way to make everyone you can a criminal - keep shirking your obligation to pass background checks within the time required by law and then be there to pick up the perp when some finally get tired and say "screw it" and sell the guy the gun.


It's legal to transfer the weapon after 7 days. That's how long the state has to perform the background check. If they take longer than that, there's no penalty for completing the purchase.
 
2013-06-10 05:49:36 PM
FTFA :
Gun distributors are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maryland law states that gun buyers should not have to wait more than seven days to receive a firearm, while Maryland police are requesting as much as 10 weeks to process the background checks.

If the law says they shouldn't have to wait more than 7 days, and they wait 7 days, then it sounds like they are complying with the law.  The cops are trying to stall so it takes 70 days instead of the 7 specified by law.
 
2013-06-10 05:51:08 PM
If the gun store doesn't release the gun they could be sued for violating the 7 day law...
 
2013-06-10 05:52:14 PM
Did no one actually RTFA? The part where it states that the gun should be released to the owner after a 7 day waiting period ... not a 70 day waiting period?

Many states (not California) allow you to just go buy a gun like it was a jug of milk.

Also, some of the recent mass shooters did NOT buy their guns legally. Some of them killed their mother and stole her guns.
Columbine shooters did not buy their guns, etc, etc, etc ...

The idea is good if it can be processed properly. But again, I don't get it, California has a 10 day waiting period AND background checks and there is no massive backlog.
 
2013-06-10 05:53:52 PM
The dealers releasing the weapons are following both the letter and the spirit of the law. The MSP is simply unable to comply with the law as currently written. And every single one of the buyers has passed a NICS check; MD state law requires a second background check from the state police and sets a time limit for them to complete the check. The police can't get the checks done in the prescribed time frame.

No one is buying guns from dealers here without a background check and their 7 (business) day cooling-off period.
 
2013-06-10 05:53:58 PM

dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally.

[citation needed]
 
2013-06-10 05:54:11 PM
"We're doing all we can to address the backlog,"

Translation: "we've found a way to spend ten weeks doing something that shouldn't take ten minutes, and are upset that store owners are abiding by state laws instead of playing along with our impromptu two month waiting period".
 
2013-06-10 05:58:42 PM

fusillade762:


Now we just need WH40K.
 
2013-06-10 05:59:28 PM
Last gun I bought the wait time was over an hour. Gun shop was in a mall and made deal with movie theater so we got in free.
 
2013-06-10 06:00:24 PM

Aarontology: Your congressman doesn't read those letters. It's always some intern with a form letter and an autopen.


Autopens are really expensive, nobody but the president and maaaaaybe a few bigstate governors use them (in my experience with constituent services).  It's probably a scanned signature dropped into a Word template.  I've found most elected officials to take an interest in the pulse of what's coming in, and staffers make sure a few well-written/reasoned samples get through every week or so.

I've seen the internal numbers for my office, and since Newtown our general volume of contacts is up 300% and every bit of it about guns.  And let me tell you, a more wretched hive of illiteracy and derpery could not be conceived.  The amount of disinformation, paranoia, racism (combined with an almost uniform lowest level of literacy while still being literate) is enough to make you truly and deeply fear for hte nation.  Pro gun arguments are not inherently stupid and have many noble goals and valid points; those points are just being reinterpreted by mouth breathing idjits who don't understand the modern world.
 
2013-06-10 06:01:37 PM
It works for the government.  When the law is inconvenient, ignore it.

See NUMEROUS activities by just the past 3 administrations.

If the government can ignore things like the constitution, I see no problem with gun store owners ignoring background check laws, especially when the government seems to be deliberately stalling.

Just think of Obama and how he implemented parts (or close enough) of the DREAM act by executive order because Congress wasn't working fast enough.  The gun store owner is just following that example.

I don't see the problem here.
 
2013-06-10 06:04:07 PM

nutkick_42: dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally. [citation needed]


Mother Jones listed 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2013. Their frequency is increasing; 25 happened since 2006, and seven this year. Of 143 guns used, 75 percent were obtained legally.
 
2013-06-10 06:05:13 PM

mbillips: nutkick_42: dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally. [citation needed]

Mother Jones listed 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2013. Their frequency is increasing; 25 happened since 2006, and seven this year in 2012. Of 143 guns used, 75 percent were obtained legally.


FTFM
 
2013-06-10 06:07:43 PM
O'Malley (wants to be President) and Frosh (wants to be Maryland's Attorney General) pushed through a bunch of questionable legislation as feathers in their caps...and surprise, surprise, we are seeing that they didn't think things through.

I wouldn't vote either in as dog catcher after watching and listening to the last session.

Slimy.
 
2013-06-10 06:14:16 PM

Aarontology: Your congressman doesn't read those letters. It's always some intern with a form letter and an autopen.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-10 06:15:23 PM

mbillips: nutkick_42: dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally. [citation needed]

Mother Jones listed 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2013. Their frequency is increasing; 25 happened since 2006, and seven this year. Of 143 guns used, 75 percent were obtained legally.


And the notoriously anti-gun Mother Jones is the organization I want to go to for finding out about statistics in gun crime.....

And I'll add my voice to the others who have already posted. The law here in MD states that if the state has not completed their background check after 7 days, the FFL may release the weapon to the transferee. This is assuming that the NICS instant check has cleared. MD's background checks take so long because they force the MSP to do a paper search rather than an electronic one. Their law prohibits certain misdemeanors from purchasing a "restricted" firearm. Mind you, you can still walk in and out of your local Walmart with a bolt gun or shotgun of your choice and not have to wait at all.

Oh, and BTW, background checks are useless. If I were a felon, I could still buy a 80% lower with jig and knock out an AR every few hours in my basement. No serial numbers, no ballistics database, nada, and there's no background check because it's not a "gun.".

/ waited 7 weeks for my FAL lower to be released because of MSP
// parts kits had dried up by then
/// waiting for the Argy kits to come back in before I say "screw it" and throw $650 at a Belgian kit.
 
2013-06-10 06:16:57 PM

mbillips: HeadLever: cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.

Seems like a nice way to make everyone you can a criminal - keep shirking your obligation to pass background checks within the time required by law and then be there to pick up the perp when some finally get tired and say "screw it" and sell the guy the gun.

It's legal to transfer the weapon after 7 days. That's how long the state has to perform the background check. If they take longer than that, there's no penalty for completing the purchase.


Seven days?? But I'm mad now!
 
2013-06-10 06:17:24 PM
So the fear of new gun laws is causing people to purchase lots of guns
increases the number of background checks
overwhelms the police dept
causes a longer wait time
validates the gun owners fear that their guns are being taken away.
 
2013-06-10 06:20:04 PM

tallen702: mbillips: nutkick_42: dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally. [citation needed]

Mother Jones listed 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2013. Their frequency is increasing; 25 happened since 2006, and seven this year. Of 143 guns used, 75 percent were obtained legally.

And the notoriously anti-gun Mother Jones is the organization I want to go to for finding out about statistics in gun crime.....

And I'll add my voice to the others who have already posted. The law here in MD states that if the state has not completed their background check after 7 days, the FFL may release the weapon to the transferee. This is assuming that the NICS instant check has cleared. MD's background checks take so long because they force the MSP to do a paper search rather than an electronic one. Their law prohibits certain misdemeanors from purchasing a "restricted" firearm. Mind you, you can still walk in and out of your local Walmart with a bolt gun or shotgun of your choice and not have to wait at all.

Oh, and BTW, background checks are useless. If I were a felon, I could still buy a 80% lower with jig and knock out an AR every few hours in my basement. No serial numbers, no ballistics database, nada, and there's no background check because it's not a "gun.".

/ waited 7 weeks for my FAL lower to be released because of MSP
// parts kits had dried up by then
/// waiting for the Argy kits to come back in before I say "screw it" and throw $650 at a Belgian kit.


Felons tend to be kinda stupid, and not handy with expensive machine tools. Background checks have turned away 16,000 felons trying to buy guns in Virginia alone since 1989, leading to 13,000 arrests.
 
2013-06-10 06:20:39 PM
The law says the gun should be released in 7 days.  Gun store owners are waiting the 7 days and letting the customers have their guns.  The law is not being broken.

Also people who have a criminal past and aren't allowed to buy guns don't go to a gun store and try to buy them.  They either steal them or buy them from private individuals instead of a gun store.  In most states private sales are not subject to the background check laws.

I find it interesting that many people believe there shouldn't be a war on drugs because it's impossible to stop drugs from getting to the people who want them.  Many of these people believe there should be a war on drugs because it is possible to stop guns from getting to the people who want them.

Make it illegal and you increase the appeal.  Also you make it harder to get.  This pushes up the price and makes it profitable for criminals to sell it.
 
2013-06-10 06:21:12 PM
FTA:  Some gun store owners have tried to give Maryland State Police a chance to do their job, but angry customers and long wait times have become too much to bear.

Do guns have heroin in the handles or something?  "I need my gun RIGHT NOW!!".
 
2013-06-10 06:21:17 PM

mbillips: tallen702: mbillips: nutkick_42: dave2198: Most of the mass shooters in the US bought their guns legally. [citation needed]

Felons tend to be kinda stupid, and not handy with expensive machine tools. Background checks have turned away 16,000 felons trying to buy guns in Virginia alone since 1989, leading to 13,000 arrests.


Citation
 
2013-06-10 06:22:47 PM

PaLarkin: The law says the gun should be released in 7 days.  Gun store owners are waiting the 7 days and letting the customers have their guns.  The law is not being broken.

Also people who have a criminal past and aren't allowed to buy guns don't go to a gun store and try to buy them.  They either steal them or buy them from private individuals instead of a gun store.  In most states private sales are not subject to the background check laws.

I find it interesting that many people believe there shouldn't be a war on drugs because it's impossible to stop drugs from getting to the people who want them.  Many of these people believe there should be a war on drugs because it is possible to stop guns from getting to the people who want them.

Make it illegal and you increase the appeal.  Also you make it harder to get.  This pushes up the price and makes it profitable for criminals to sell it.


Shush, stop bringing rational thought into this.
 
2013-06-10 06:23:43 PM
I've always wondered why Fark doesn't have more abortion threads. They make as much sense as the gun threads.
 
2013-06-10 06:24:00 PM

TheYeti: O'Malley (wants to be President) and Frosh (wants to be Maryland's Attorney General) pushed through a bunch of questionable legislation as feathers in their caps...and surprise, surprise, we are seeing that they didn't think things through.

I wouldn't vote either in as dog catcher after watching and listening to the last session.

Slimy.


O'Malley has screwed Maryland.

Millionaire tax
Flush tax
Rain tax

He can only get 52-56% of the votes in Maryland, when MD is only 25% Republican?  Basically zero independents voted for Marty.
 
2013-06-10 06:26:29 PM
I wonder how many idiots actually think that no background check is being done.  They are all run through an federal check the same as all purchases from a vendor at gun shows have for over a decade.  There is no gun show loophole.  If you are buying from a vendor at a gun show, they run an insta-check and they have since 1998 here in Pennsylvania.
"Gun show loophole" is just a phrase used to whip the uniformed into a frenzy.
 
2013-06-10 06:26:32 PM

jehovahs witness protection: cameroncrazy1984: Seems like a nice way to advertise to felons that they can now purchase guns. Great job, "law abiding" gun owners.

Um, they steal guns. Honest people buy them.


No they don't. The majority of guns that are used by criminals are not stolen. They are bought by a person who can legally purchases guns, then that person sells them to the criminal. It is called straw purchases.
 
2013-06-10 06:27:08 PM

TheYeti: O'Malley (wants to be President) and Frosh (wants to be Maryland's Attorney General) pushed through a bunch of questionable legislation as feathers in their caps...and surprise, surprise, we are seeing that they didn't think things through.

I wouldn't vote either in as dog catcher after watching and listening to the last session.

Slimy.


Admittedly, the alternative wasn't really any better. Erlich is a crook and liar just as much as OweMalley is. But you're right, the unintended consequences are going to turn around and bite them all in the ass. All the bill is doing is getting those guys who may or may not have purchased an AR or AK or whatever off the fence and into the gun stores. What's more, it's going to flood the state with unserialized ARs very quickly. Everyone with a drill press or $60 to spend at harbor freight will be grabbing 80% lowers for their own personal use. Once some enterprising hood-rat sees what's going on, they're going to do the same thing, but wind up selling non-serialized non-registered firearms to every Le'roy and Da'quane on the block.

Also, they still haven't made it clear whether Taurus "Judge" and "Circuit Judge" revolvers fare completely banned or not since they are technically "shotguns with a revolving cylinder."
 
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