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(Tech Dirt)   "DOJ Argues Secret Ruling Over Secret Unconstitutional Surveillance Must Remain Secret Because It's Secret"   (techdirt.com) divider line 58
    More: Obvious  
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3501 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2013 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-10 12:01:30 PM  
Secret
 
2013-06-10 12:01:49 PM  
It's almost like rulings on classified programs would remain classified.
 
2013-06-10 12:01:54 PM  
Oh hush, it's only wrong when there's a republican in the white-house.
 
2013-06-10 12:02:12 PM  
"Too Many Secrets"
 
2013-06-10 12:02:18 PM  
Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"

/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.
 
2013-06-10 12:03:08 PM  
Well, yeah. I realize that's a pretty stupid position to take but everyone does realize it's the only possible one they COULD take, right?

Things that make "sense" in the context of national security will very rarely make any sense whatsoever in any other context.
 
2013-06-10 12:03:46 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"

/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.


No, it's "if you vote a party line you're part of the problem".
 
2013-06-10 12:04:28 PM  
www.spirit-of-rock.com
 
2013-06-10 12:10:51 PM  
Well, they aren't going to rule that their secret surveillance should be un-secret.

/secret
 
2013-06-10 12:11:21 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

Approves.
 
2013-06-10 12:12:48 PM  

A Shambling Mound: Well, yeah. I realize that's a pretty stupid position to take but everyone does realize it's the only possible one they COULD take, right?

Things that make "sense" in the context of national security will very rarely make any sense whatsoever in any other context.


National security has long been the go-to, catch-all for "we'll do whatever the fark we want."

Congresscritters then are happy to release national security stuff they think might make their counterparts look bad.
 
2013-06-10 12:17:58 PM  
Well that settles that.
 
2013-06-10 12:18:26 PM  
Coming up next on the Tautology Channel, the things we don't know that we don't know.
 
2013-06-10 12:19:27 PM  

A Shambling Mound: Enemabag Jones: Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"

/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.

No, it's "if you vote a party line you're part of the problem".


What if we vote "we're damned if we do and damned if we don't but at least these guys won't keep my gay friends from marrying and my female friends from making their own choices"?

/It's a very wide ballot
 
2013-06-10 12:19:55 PM  
Catch-22 states that agents enforcing Catch-22 need not prove that Catch-22 actually contains whatever provision the accused violator is accused of violating
 
2013-06-10 12:23:00 PM  
There are people who hold the specious notion that tyranny is just around the corner.

We need to reject these voices.
 
2013-06-10 12:23:08 PM  
When you prove to me that you know what's in the box, then you get to open the box and see what's inside.
 
2013-06-10 12:23:09 PM  
so, Fight Club?
 
2013-06-10 12:26:05 PM  

wild9: Secret


Thread's over.
 
2013-06-10 12:26:20 PM  
Look, if you were qualified to know, you already would.  People who do know get to make that decision because you can't be trusted to make a decision like that uninformed--that'd be dangerous all around.
 
2013-06-10 12:27:29 PM  
Edward Snowden is a hero of the People.
NOV 5 - Edward Snowden Day.
 
2013-06-10 12:30:52 PM  

A Shambling Mound: Well, yeah. I realize that's a pretty stupid position to take but everyone does realize it's the only possible one they COULD take, right?

Things that make "sense" in the context of national security will very rarely make any sense whatsoever in any other context.


"We had to destroy the village to save it."

/Turrism!
 
2013-06-10 12:31:25 PM  
Just assume the worst, and you'll probably be right.
 
2013-06-10 12:32:36 PM  
"Vote Democratic, because although both sides lie to you, the press doesn't report on Democratic lies as much...which will bother you less."
 
2013-06-10 12:35:53 PM  

garkola: "Vote Democratic, because although both sides lie to you, the press doesn't report on Democratic lies as much...which will bother you less."


thinkoutsidethebarn.com

It's a conspiracy...... yawn....
 
2013-06-10 12:38:06 PM  

OnlyM3: Oh hush, it's only wrong when there's a republican in the white-house.


Weird that you don't see anyone actually making that argument in reality.

It's almost as if the anti-Obama crowd are transferring their own insecurities and fears to their political opponents and imagining that they are grounded in reality, even though facts deny that. Why, in fact, it seems EXACTLY the case that the diehard republican tea-party crew are inventing straw man arguments that portray the other side as mindlessly following a charismatic politician and switching off their most important ideals and their ability to reason out of a sense of mindless obedience.  I suppose when that is how one side operates, it's hard to fathom that those who don't share your beliefs may ALSO not share your way of deciding what to believe.

In fact, people like me, who generally support Obama, have been pretty quick to criticize his administration when they've deviated from what we expected.  Many feel he's driven a bit too hard to the right (especially on the Bush era programs, secret or otherwise, that he's maintained or built upon) in an attempt to be strong on national security issues. I am disappointed with many of these decisions and the people making them, but at least they are better than the alternative.
 
2013-06-10 12:39:38 PM  
So Xbox One's Kinect will be monitored by the NSA.

Only half kidding.

But I do wonder if you start a fake domestic disturbance how long before the cops show up?
 
2013-06-10 12:39:58 PM  
Worst secret ever.
 
2013-06-10 12:41:30 PM  

A Shambling Mound: Enemabag Jones: Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"

/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.

No, it's "if you vote a party line you're part of the problem".


This
 
2013-06-10 12:41:56 PM  
I've been sayinv for some time that it's no longer about race, gender, or networking; It's all about if you can get and keep a clearance.
 
2013-06-10 12:42:32 PM  

garkola: "Vote Democratic, because although both sides lie to you, the press doesn't report on Democratic lies as much...which will bother you less."


That would be the "liberal" press that is absolutely dominated by hardcore conservative and corporate interests, rather than the reactionary liberal minority at MSNBC ?

Or are you referring to the fact that even on Fox, there is often SOME attempt to require some proof of claims when history shows that the conservative pundits (whose opinions are often mistaken for news) have repeatedly invented claims that have been false, have flat-out ignored objectively provable facts and have often lied directly about it?
 
2013-06-10 12:44:55 PM  

Seraphym: Coming up next on the Tautology Channel, the things we don't know that we don't know.


<ISeeWhatYouDidThere.jpg>

/Do these Smart and Funny buttons serve a purpose?
//Gave you one of each.
 
2013-06-10 12:46:35 PM  
Mr. Holder, with all due respect:

i2.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-10 12:50:22 PM  

jvowles: OnlyM3: Oh hush, it's only wrong when there's a republican in the white-house.

Weird that you don't see anyone actually making that argument in reality.

It's almost as if the anti-Obama crowd are transferring their own insecurities and fears to their political opponents and imagining that they are grounded in reality, even though facts deny that. Why, in fact, it seems EXACTLY the case that the diehard republican tea-party crew are inventing straw man arguments that portray the other side as mindlessly following a charismatic politician and switching off their most important ideals and their ability to reason out of a sense of mindless obedience.  I suppose when that is how one side operates, it's hard to fathom that those who don't share your beliefs may ALSO not share your way of deciding what to believe.

In fact, people like me, who generally support Obama, have been pretty quick to criticize his administration when they've deviated from what we expected.  Many feel he's driven a bit too hard to the right (especially on the Bush era programs, secret or otherwise, that he's maintained or built upon) in an attempt to be strong on national security issues. I am disappointed with many of these decisions and the people making them, but at least they are better than the alternative.


Awesome!  You are ACTUALLY making an anti-strawman argument out of a strawman.  I am in awe.  You are boundless.
 
2013-06-10 12:51:53 PM  
Secret Squirrel.
 
2013-06-10 01:02:07 PM  
The Most Transparent Administration in history!!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-10 01:06:59 PM  
Classified information isn't normally something you can get with a FOIA request, so that's not very surprising.  Not to mention that the NSA's files are exempt anyway.


Basically the only thing that the article tells us is that the FISA court is enforcing the constitution and isn't the rubber stamp that people have been claiming.
 
2013-06-10 01:08:23 PM  

WTF Indeed: It's almost like rulings on classified programs would remain classified.


except when both sides say that only the other side can release the information.
That's when you KNOW they are covering up wrongdoing.
 
2013-06-10 01:12:16 PM  
HAMMERTOE,
A Shambling Mound: Enemabag Jones: Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"
/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.
No, it's "if you vote a party line you're part of the problem".
This


Lets look at the options. The last two Democratic presidents were Clinton and Obama. Both were somewhat socially liberal, economically conservative (LOL), and with regard to civil rights, speaking traditionally, more Republican then Democrat.

Then what are the options. Libertarian? Post 2008 I read that as Republicans that smoke week and are not Christian Conservative. Green, which I understand as fark you, I would rather throw away my vote then support Democrats, which Republicans just looove.
 
2013-06-10 01:16:05 PM  
Dear goons,

Assassination Attack Domestic security Drill Exercise Cops Law enforcement Authorities Disaster assistance Disaster management DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office) Hazmat Nuclear Chemical spill Suspicious package/device Toxic National laboratory Nuclear facility Nuclear threat Cloud Plume Radiation Radioactive Infrastructure security Airport CIKR AMTRAK Collapse Computer infrastructure Communications infrastructure Telecommunications Critical infrastructure Drug cartel Violence Gang Drug Narcotics Cocaine Marijuana Heroin Border Mexico Cartel Southwest Juarez Sinaloa Tijuana Terrorism Al Qaeda Terror Attack Iraq Afghanistan Iran Pakistan Agro Environmental terrorist Eco terrorism Conventional weapon Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical weapon Biological weapon Ammonium nitrate Cyber security Botnet DDOS (dedicated denial of service) Denial of service Malware Virus Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Coast Guard (USCG) Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Border Patrol Secret Service (USSS) National Operations Center (NOC) Homeland Defense Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) Agent Task Force Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Fusion Center Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) Secure Border Initiative (SBI) Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Air Marshal Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) National Guard Red Cross United Nations (UN) Domestic Security National preparedness Mitigation Prevention Response Recovery Dirty Bomb Domestic nuclear detection Emergency management Emergency response First responder Homeland security Maritime domain awareness (MDA) National preparedness initiative Militia Shooting Shots fired Evacuation Deaths Hostage Explosion (explosive) Police Disaster medical assistance team (DMAT) Organized crime Gangs National security State of emergency Security Breach Threat Standoff SWAT Screening Lockdown Bomb (squad or threat) Crash Looting Riot Emergency Landing Pipe bomb Incident Facility Leak Biological infection (or event) Chemical Chemical burn Biological Epidemic Hazardous Hazardous material incident Industrial spill Infection Powder (white) Gas Spillover Anthrax Blister agent Exposure Burn Nerve agent Ricin Sarin North Korea National infrastructure Metro WMATA Airplane (and derivatives) Chemical fire Subway BART MARTA Port Authority NBIC (National Biosurveillance Integration Center) Transportation security Grid Power Smart Body scanner Electric Failure or outage Black out Brown out Port Dock Bridge Canceled Delays Service disruption Power lines Improvised explosive device IED (Improvised Explosive Device) Abu Sayyaf Hamas FARC (Armed Revolutionary Forces Colombia) IRA (Irish Republican Army) ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna) Basque Separatists Hezbollah Tamil Tiger PLF (Palestine Liberation Front) PLO (Palestine Libration Organization) Car bomb Jihad Taliban Weapons cache Suicide bomber Suicide attack Suspicious substance AQAP (Al Qaeda Arabian Peninsula) AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb) TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan) Yemen Pirates Extremism Somalia Nigeria Radicals Al-Shabaab Home grown Plot Nationalist Recruitment Fundamentalism Islamist Keylogger Cyber Command 2600 Spammer Phishing Rootkit Phreaking Cain and abel Brute forcing Mysql injection Cyber attack Cyber terror Hacker China Conficker Worm Scammers Social media
Sincerely RanDomino
 
2013-06-10 01:42:12 PM  

RanDomino: Dear goons, (etc)


Aww crankypants, didja have to go do that? Now the whole thread's classified.
 
2013-06-10 01:57:55 PM  
Wow...the gub'mint just went "Well shoot! If we told you then it wouldn't be a SECRET anymore, now would it?"
 
2013-06-10 02:14:42 PM  
Military Intelligence.
 
2013-06-10 02:34:47 PM  
Just look at the press response to TIA back in the day. Now look at the blase press response to today's NSA, which is TIA+.

Press response: "let's suck Obama's dick more, because our stomachs can't get enough of his liberal goodness."
 
2013-06-10 02:50:12 PM  

RanDomino: Dear goons,

Assassination Attack Domestic security Drill Exercise Cops Law enforcement Authorities Disaster assistance Disaster management DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office) Hazmat Nuclear Chemical spill Suspicious package/device Toxic National laboratory Nuclear facility Nuclear threat Cloud Plume Radiation Radioactive Infrastructure security Airport CIKR AMTRAK Collapse Computer infrastructure Communications infrastructure Telecommunications Critical infrastructure Drug cartel Violence Gang Drug Narcotics Cocaine Marijuana Heroin Border Mexico Cartel Southwest Juarez Sinaloa Tijuana Terrorism Al Qaeda Terror Attack Iraq Afghanistan Iran Pakistan Agro Environmental terrorist Eco terrorism Conventional weapon Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical weapon Biological weapon Ammonium nitrate Cyber security Botnet DDOS (dedicated denial of service) Denial of service Malware Virus Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Coast Guard (USCG) Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Border Patrol Secret Service (USSS) National Operations Center (NOC) Homeland Defense Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) Agent Task Force Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Fusion Center Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) Secure Border Initiative (SBI) Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Air Marshal Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) National Guard Red Cross United Nations (UN) Domestic Security National preparedness Mitigation Prevention Response Recovery Dirty Bomb Domestic nuclear detection Emergency management Emergency response First responder Homeland security Maritime domain awareness (MDA) National preparedness initiative Militia Shooting Shots fired Evacuation Deaths Hostage Explosion (explosive) Police Disaster medical assistan ...


I'm assured that the NSA's AI can detect snark.
 
2013-06-10 02:52:01 PM  

RanDomino: Dear goons,

Assassination Attack Domestic security Drill Exercise Cops Law enforcement Authorities Disaster assistance Disaster management DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office) Hazmat Nuclear Chemical spill Suspicious package/device Toxic National laboratory Nuclear facility Nuclear threat Cloud Plume Radiation Radioactive Infrastructure security Airport CIKR AMTRAK Collapse Computer infrastructure Communications infrastructure Telecommunications Critical infrastructure Drug cartel Violence Gang Drug Narcotics Cocaine Marijuana Heroin Border Mexico Cartel Southwest Juarez Sinaloa Tijuana Terrorism Al Qaeda Terror Attack Iraq Afghanistan Iran Pakistan Agro Environmental terrorist Eco terrorism Conventional weapon Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical weapon Biological weapon Ammonium nitrate Cyber security Botnet DDOS (dedicated denial of service) Denial of service Malware Virus Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Coast Guard (USCG) Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Border Patrol Secret Service (USSS) National Operations Center (NOC) Homeland Defense Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) Agent Task Force Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Fusion Center Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) Secure Border Initiative (SBI) Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Air Marshal Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) National Guard Red Cross United Nations (UN) Domestic Security National preparedness Mitigation Prevention Response Recovery Dirty Bomb Domestic nuclear detection Emergency management Emergency response First responder Homeland security Maritime domain awareness (MDA) National preparedness initiative Militia Shooting Shots fired Evacuation Deaths Hostage Explosion (explosive) Police Disaster medical assistan ...


LOL!

You forgot Sandy Hook and 911.
 
2013-06-10 03:12:46 PM  
So basically:
"NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG CITIZEN"

Yes?
 
2013-06-10 03:34:53 PM  

zepher: The Most Transparent Administration in history!!


Scary thought; What if they are?
 
2013-06-10 04:05:46 PM  

Enemabag Jones: HAMMERTOE,
A Shambling Mound: Enemabag Jones: Now what, "vote Republican because both sides are bad?"
/Seriously, this shiat is just getting farking annoying.
No, it's "if you vote a party line you're part of the problem".
This


Lets look at the options. The last two Democratic presidents were Clinton and Obama. Both were somewhat socially liberal, economically conservative (LOL), and with regard to civil rights, speaking traditionally, more Republican then Democrat.

Then what are the options. Libertarian? Post 2008 I read that as Republicans that smoke week and are not Christian Conservative. Green, which I understand as fark you, I would rather throw away my vote then support Democrats, which Republicans just looove.


There are no options.  The electoral system pretty much guarantees that there can never be more than two viable political parties.

Probably the best hope for change is if one of the major parties implodes and leaves a power vacuum that can be filled by an existing (and hopefully not insane) third party.  At the moment, it looks like the Republican party might be imploding, but it's taking a long time.
 
2013-06-10 04:14:40 PM  
All we can hope for is that Obama gets re-elected, so that he can rid Washington of all these scandals.
 
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