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(LA Times)   In 2015, eggs sold in California must come from a hen with room in her cage to spread her wings. Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) and Republicans in other states are fighting that and want a Federal law to over turn it. Because ... states rights??   (latimes.com) divider line 405
    More: Interesting, California, states' rights, House Agriculture Committee, federal law, interstate commerce, primary sector of the economy, bottle cage, Wayne Pacelle  
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3063 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jun 2013 at 10:11 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-09 04:02:53 AM
I just don't get this. I understand profit margins, but perhaps eggs should cost more than $1.79 a dozen so that the chickens aren't tortured. All of my chickens have around 8 square feet of space each (they really need 4, but my coop was made from an existing building and I just didn't need/want the number of chickens to be at capacity). My eggs cost me, all told, about 60 cents a dozen, and I am using dual purpose breeds that have a much worse feed conversion ratio than the variety used in commercial egg production.

If we as a nation were a little more in touch with the origins of our food, animal maltreatment would not happen in the first place.
 
2013-06-09 05:20:00 AM
Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.
 
2013-06-09 07:31:54 AM
No problem, just hack the wings off.
 
2013-06-09 07:36:23 AM

doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.


Interstate Commerce Über Alles. I predict enough Democrats from Ag states sign on and California loses/takes it in the end.
 
2013-06-09 07:38:05 AM

doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.


King's relying on the 10th Amendment:   "The powers not delegated to theUnited States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people."

The 9th is the "rights including but not limited to" clause:  "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. "
 
2013-06-09 07:41:24 AM
Er, no, King's not relying on the 10th; the other side is.

/where's that damned coffee?
 
2013-06-09 07:44:02 AM
Hypocrisy in Republicans. Who'd have thought the day would come!
 
2013-06-09 08:28:45 AM
Profit margins trump every other supposed belief they have.
 
2013-06-09 08:33:54 AM
Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes.
 
2013-06-09 08:41:11 AM

redslippers: I understand profit margins, but perhaps eggs should cost more than $1.79 a dozen so that the chickens aren't tortured.


I guess I'm lucky.  There's a lot of local farms here where we an get farm-raised eggs for not much more than the store.  Duck eggs, too.
 
2013-06-09 08:52:50 AM

OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes


I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-06-09 09:00:06 AM
Force egg producers to place a statement on each carton like is done with cigarettes.

ANIMALS WERE TORTURED TO PRODUCE THIS PRODUCT

Companies that allow adequate space don't have to wear the label.  Then let the consumer show the producer how profitable animal mistreatment really is.
 
2013-06-09 09:07:22 AM

NFA: Then let the consumer show the producer how profitable animal mistreatment really is.


Not sure how to interpret this.  If you think the label would discourage people from buying the cheapest eggs available, I think you underestimate the general population.

We're talking about people that shout "USA fark YEAH!!!",  while they shop at Walmart for their American flags.  We're talking about people that thought Sarah Palin belongs in the White House.  I don't think they're going to give a fark about animal torture.
 
2013-06-09 09:12:22 AM

born_yesterday: NFA: Then let the consumer show the producer how profitable animal mistreatment really is.

Not sure how to interpret this.  If you think the label would discourage people from buying the cheapest eggs available, I think you underestimate the general population.

We're talking about people that shout "USA fark YEAH!!!",  while they shop at Walmart for their Chinese-made American flags.  We're talking about people that thought Sarah Palin belongs in the White House.  I don't think they're going to give a fark about animal torture.


FTFY

/These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
 
2013-06-09 09:40:11 AM

what_now: OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes

I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.


www.healthbanquet.com
No, it makes you healthier.
 
2013-06-09 09:51:24 AM

flucto: doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.

Interstate Commerce Über Alles. I predict enough Democrats from Ag states sign on and California loses/takes it in the end.


Actually, this one wouldn't be Commerce Clause - the proposed regulation is neutral towards in-state vs. out-of-state farms. The Commerce Clause is only implicated when a state proposes regulations that burden foreign producers while protecting local ones, such as passing import taxes or regulations that eggs can't travel more than 100 miles from their farms. This one doesn't fit.

... but that said, the bigger issue would be the Supremacy Clause. In establishing the FDA, the Federal government has passed laws that occupy the field. This law would conflict with FDA standards, and would likely be preempted by those federal standards.

/and the government has the power to create the FDA due to the commerce clause, so we're back full circle again
 
2013-06-09 09:54:55 AM

Theaetetus: what_now: OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes

I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.


No, it makes you healthier.


Out of curiosity what is the exact cause of the color difference? Protein levels in the yolk?
 
2013-06-09 10:14:10 AM
STATES RIGHTS...unless it negatively impacts me.
 
2013-06-09 10:14:19 AM
Why are conservatives so proud of their march backwards to the dark ages?

Here, Iran - it's the same process.
 
2013-06-09 10:14:52 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Er, no, King's not relying on the 10th; the other side is.

/where's that damned coffee?


King is too. Interstate commerce regulation is a power dedicated by the constitution to the feds
 
2013-06-09 10:15:37 AM
Enjoy your $12 per dozen eggs. You deserve it.
 
2013-06-09 10:16:08 AM
King and his allies contend that California is essentially setting a national standard for treatment of hens and stepping into Congress' authority to regulate interstate commerce.

California is a big customer and has the ability to dictate what it wants to buy and influence its suppliers.

FREE MARKET biatchES!!!
 
2013-06-09 10:18:36 AM

doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.


9th Amendmen? Really?

What you mean is TENTH Amendment, and boatloads of liberals and conservatives crap on the 10th Amendment all the time.
 
2013-06-09 10:19:48 AM

BarkingUnicorn: doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.

King's relying on the 10th Amendment:   "The powers not delegated to theUnited States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people."

The 9th is the "rights including but not limited to" clause:  "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. "


Okay, so work this out in steps for me: Just how is someone who wants the Feds to tyrannize a state relying on the 10th Amendment? CALIFORNIA is relying on the 10th Amendment. King is trying to ignore the 10th Amendment.
 
2013-06-09 10:21:23 AM
Do the chickens have large talons?
 
2013-06-09 10:21:30 AM
I guess "California Emission Standards" are illegal violations of interstate commerce as well.
 
2013-06-09 10:22:02 AM

Theaetetus: what_now: OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes

I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.

[www.healthbanquet.com image 275x248]
No, it makes you healthier.


According to white trash who have a daddy/uncle and a momma/aunt; who consider WalMart to be a "boutique"; end up reproducing with their siblings, it does.
 
2013-06-09 10:22:47 AM

BarkingUnicorn: No problem, just hack the wings off.


I assuming you are speaking in jest, but really this would be the easiest way to circumvent this I suppose
 
2013-06-09 10:22:57 AM

Mrtraveler01: STATES RIGHTS...unless it negatively impacts me.


I don't think you really understand the issue.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-06-09 10:23:17 AM

born_yesterday: We're talking about people that shout "USA fark YEAH!!!",  while they shop at Walmart for their American flags.  We're talking about people that thought Sarah Palin belongs in the White House.  I don't think they're going to give a fark about animal torture.


You underestimate the power of house wives.  It would only take a 10 percent reduction in profit to have these guys redesigning their cages.
 
2013-06-09 10:24:52 AM
"Congress this year will deal with a host of profound issues..."

Is it terrible that I stopped right there and LOL'd?  We know Congress doesn't deal with anything.
 
2013-06-09 10:24:59 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Enjoy your $12 per dozen eggs. You deserve it.


I can buy free-range all day at $3 without looking for a deal RIGHT NOW. It's not going to $12.
 
2013-06-09 10:25:41 AM

Theaetetus: flucto: doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.

Interstate Commerce Über Alles. I predict enough Democrats from Ag states sign on and California loses/takes it in the end.

Actually, this one wouldn't be Commerce Clause - the proposed regulation is neutral towards in-state vs. out-of-state farms. The Commerce Clause is only implicated when a state proposes regulations that burden foreign producers while protecting local ones, such as passing import taxes or regulations that eggs can't travel more than 100 miles from their farms. This one doesn't fit.

... but that said, the bigger issue would be the Supremacy Clause. In establishing the FDA, the Federal government has passed laws that occupy the field. This law would conflict with FDA standards, and would likely be preempted by those federal standards.

/and the government has the power to create the FDA due to the commerce clause, so we're back full circle again


First, a direct Commerce Clause-based assault is less unlikely than you think. The Commerce Clause has been illegitimately invoked (with success) for a while host of abuses. The first, which set the bar, is Wickert v. Filburn, which established, according to the US Government, that a man who grows wheat on his own land to feed to his own chickens on the same land, all of which are in a single state, IS subject to Commerce Clause-based meddling because his doing so might have an influence on some element of interstate commerce, somewhere up or down the line.

YES that is the government's contention. The Supreme Court confirmed it. Nobody in power has ever questioned it. The USA ceased being a Federal Republic on that day and became a centralized state, with no actual power held by the states except as a privilege doled out by the Feds.
 
2013-06-09 10:25:55 AM

OregonVet: Mrtraveler01: STATES RIGHTS...unless it negatively impacts me.

I don't think you really understand the issue.


I understand, egg farmers in Iowa don't want to meet the new standards to sell eggs in California and want to overturn California's regulations because of it.
 
2013-06-09 10:26:38 AM

ghare: jehovahs witness protection: Enjoy your $12 per dozen eggs. You deserve it.

I can buy free-range all day at $3 without looking for a deal RIGHT NOW. It's not going to $12.


Even the organic eggs don't cost more than $5-$6 a dozen.
 
2013-06-09 10:26:47 AM
Have you ever tasted a condor-egg omelet?
 
2013-06-09 10:27:38 AM

NFA: Force egg producers to place a statement on each carton like is done with cigarettes.

ANIMALS WERE TORTURED TO PRODUCE THIS PRODUCT

Companies that allow adequate space don't have to wear the label.  Then let the consumer show the producer how profitable animal mistreatment really is.


Hmm. Actually this isn't a bad idea, though you would need to tone it down quite a bit before it became actually useful. Just putting "Tortured Animals!" on the label only might stop families with sensitive children from buying those eggs, and I'm not sure if that would dent the industry enough to stop the practise. People without kids, people who frankly don't care about chickens or fair trade in general won't be put off much by a hyperbolic label. (*raises his hand as someone who doesn't give a fark about Fair Trade anything.*)

/When I was a smoker, I'd sometimes ask for the "Pregnant pack" of my brand because, well, as a dude the warning was useless. "Don't smoke if you are pregnant!" "I'm a dude, I can smoke the fark out of this pack!".
//Place where I normally bought my smokes would actually spend some of their downtime separating the packs out just for customers like me, since I was far from unique in my perverse sense of humour.
 
2013-06-09 10:28:41 AM
Oh dear lord. Can we just get the Senate to pass a bill making it a federal crime for conservatives to commit mass suicide, and declaring their mass graves superfund sites, already?
 
2013-06-09 10:31:38 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: I guess "California Emission Standards" are illegal violations of interstate commerce as well.


This. Cali set the standards, is such a large market that it essentially set the standard for the rest of the country. We are all better off for it.
 
2013-06-09 10:34:28 AM

doglover: Can a federal law even overturn that? 9th amendment biatches. Go cry about it.


The argument is it affects interstate commerce, which is a federal power. Did you forget your ACA arguments already?

A lawyer could argue this adds a tariff on out of state goods by increasing costs.
 
2013-06-09 10:37:54 AM

what_now: OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes

I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.


It does on one side of the political divide in this country. To them, freedom means chickens fed with fracking chemicals, sold for $1.09 a pound to workers making $1.09 an hour.

Anything else is the "pussification of America."
 
2013-06-09 10:38:22 AM
I think the egg lobby should do a proactive spin campaign.  Instead of using the Grade A term, switch it with Patriot or Liberty.  And start to call non cage free eggs, "American eggs"

1 dozen American Liberty Eggs please.  I prefer them to them over the non American variety.
 
2013-06-09 10:38:45 AM
I guess this proves that the libertarian argument that the free market will correct social issues on its own is a bunch of malarkey afterall huh?

California didn't like the fact that chickens are kept in cages, CA passes legislation that bans eggs that came from caged chickens.

The Conservative/Libertarian argument would be that this is the end and social change is made. However these same folks touting the virtues of the free market are using Big Government to overturn legislation that was passed by the will of the people in California just because the egg farmers think they know better than what Californians want (ie: They don't want to comply with the legislation passed by one of their biggest customers).

It's so mind-blowingly ironic that it's hard to gauge the amount of irony this contains.
 
2013-06-09 10:39:12 AM
We buy organic, free-range eggs (can't get the free-range around here without the organic) from a local farmer. I've never paid more than $5 a box, and a dozen eggs from the grocery store costs $2.49 a dozen.

with 3 adults, we go through a dozen about every 2 weeks. If it costs me $50 a year to have cage-free eggs? I am a-okay with that.
 
2013-06-09 10:40:05 AM
No big deal. Keep your eggs Iowa, and suck it while your at it. A majority of Californians voted to not allow the sale of eggs from chickens in terrible conditions. That is democracy in action, do not try to subvert it for the benefit of massive agribusiness who raise chickens in cubbyholes.

Most people I know already buy local cage free eggs.

That would be a nice economic boom for local farmers if all we can get in CA is local free range eggs.

To anyone who still eats the cheapest possible eggs, get a dozen free range eggs and a dozen cheap eggs and try them out side by side. There is a huge difference.
 
2013-06-09 10:40:16 AM
It looks like the Egg Council people got to Steve King too.
 
2013-06-09 10:42:35 AM

Theaetetus: what_now: OregonVet: Don't sell in CA if they don't want to retool their farms. Sure, its a hit, OTOH $4/dozen eggs would be well deserved for those hipster assholes

I don't think wanting cage free eggs makes you a hipster asshole.

[www.healthbanquet.com image 275x248]
No, it makes you healthier.


It also makes it easier to bake a cake. I switched to organic eggs when it became impossible to separate regular eggs due to the yolk constantly breaking.
 
2013-06-09 10:42:54 AM
Excuse me while I go eat some organic eggs from a local cage free chicken.
 
2013-06-09 10:42:59 AM
Second question. How is California contending to enforce their standards on importation? Are they threatening to send state inspectors to Idaho to check cages? If a Reliance on federal inspectors it is an even broader argument for interstate.
 
2013-06-09 10:43:37 AM

LittleJoeSF: No big deal. Keep your eggs Iowa, and suck it while your at it. A majority of Californians voted to not allow the sale of eggs from chickens in terrible conditions. That is democracy in action, do not try to subvert it for the benefit of massive agribusiness who raise chickens in cubbyholes.

Most people I know already buy local cage free eggs.

That would be a nice economic boom for local farmers if all we can get in CA is local free range eggs.

To anyone who still eats the cheapest possible eggs, get a dozen free range eggs and a dozen cheap eggs and try them out side by side. There is a huge difference.


I love the egg industry's argument:

"Fine...we just won't sell eggs in California then"

Really? You're not going to do business from one of your biggest customers. You really think you can make up the lost revenue you would've gotten in California with the other 49 states?

That would be like someone not doing business with Wal-Mart. I mean it's possible for you to still succeed without Wal-Mart, but it makes it that much more difficult when you don't have the largest retailer in the World to help you.

Seriously Egg Farmers of America, I dare you.
 
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