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(Center for Public Integrity)   Security (n.): The feeling you get when a judge who ordered Verizon to give the NSA your phone records attended expenses-paid seminars sponsored by Koch-funded think tanks   (publicintegrity.org) divider line 246
    More: Fail, NSA, Verizon, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, secret polices, telephone tapping, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, 2007 in literature, seminars  
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2238 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jun 2013 at 6:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-07 04:34:01 PM
This is starting to make my head hurt.
 
2013-06-07 04:40:53 PM
Perfectly legal, they assure you.
 
2013-06-07 04:49:39 PM
That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.
 
2013-06-07 04:51:42 PM

Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.


They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists. They need government to make regulations to keep their competition down and favorably dole out public property to them at knockdown rates. They couldn't succeed as they have with a level playing field.
 
2013-06-07 04:54:57 PM
Oh FFS now Alex Jones has a real farking thing to talk about
 
2013-06-07 04:55:27 PM

Tigger: They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists.


Oh, no doubt.  And the rhetoric of their front groups doesn't match the reality of those two.  Still, headline and article make it seem like a damning "Duh!"
 
2013-06-07 04:56:43 PM
I'm glad that Obama and the Koch brothers have finally come to agreement about something.
 
2013-06-07 05:02:40 PM

cman: Oh FFS now Alex Jones has a real farking thing to talk about


Worth it. He could die from the freaking-out-with-utter-glee.
 
2013-06-07 05:04:04 PM

gameshowhost: cman: Oh FFS now Alex Jones has a real farking thing to talk about

Worth it. He could die from the freaking-out-with-utter-glee.


Motherfarker will probably orgasm on the air
 
2013-06-07 05:08:02 PM

cman: gameshowhost: cman: Oh FFS now Alex Jones has a real farking thing to talk about

Worth it. He could die from the freaking-out-with-utter-glee.

Motherfarker will probably orgasm on the air


I just threw up in my mouth a little.
 
2013-06-07 05:08:03 PM

Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?


I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?
 
2013-06-07 05:09:44 PM
I expect to hear that the Cock Brothers (oops, misspelling) have moved to,Skull Island any day now.

Seriously, they are real life super villains by this point.
 
2013-06-07 05:13:31 PM

Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?


Lindsay Graham finally got an Obama scandal he can get behind!

But yes.  The acceptance and complicity, if not outright support, is disgusting and chilling.  The Patriot Act needs to be dismantled.  And neither the Congress or the President (either of them) are willing to do that.  I was super disappointed in Obama's statements today with regard to this.  He basically said it's OK to sacrifice liberty for security.  Fark that noise.  He's really lost me on this one.
 
2013-06-07 05:19:33 PM

Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.



The conference was in 2008 when they thought they would end up with McCain's big government, not Obama's. Big government is OK as long as it is for "national security" or supporting the Christian Right.
 
2013-06-07 05:24:33 PM
Every man knows to go in the browser tools and hit "delete browser history".

That way the wife doesn't know all the porn sites you've been visiting. Well, now the government won't know, either.

You're welcome.
 
2013-06-07 05:25:39 PM

catmandu: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.


The conference was in 2008 when they thought they would end up with McCain's big government, not Obama's. Big government is OK as long as it is for "national security" or supporting the Christian Right.


Ah.  Well that's kinda dumb.  Freedom forfeited is rarely regained.  McCain wasn't going to be prez forever.
 
2013-06-07 05:38:42 PM

Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?


I'm just proud that I live in a state with two senators that oppose this shiat (Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley).
 
2013-06-07 05:49:06 PM

fusillade762: Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?

I'm just proud that I live in a state with two senators that oppose this shiat (Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley).


Those two cats are good Senators -- you should be proud.
 
2013-06-07 05:53:18 PM

Tigger: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.

They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists. They need government to make regulations to keep their competition down and favorably dole out public property to them at knockdown rates. They couldn't succeed as they have with a level playing field.


Ayup. Wikipedia should put their picture up on the entry for "Rent Seeking".
 
2013-06-07 06:08:21 PM

fusillade762: Tigger: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.

They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists. They need government to make regulations to keep their competition down and favorably dole out public property to them at knockdown rates. They couldn't succeed as they have with a level playing field.

Ayup. Wikipedia should put their picture up on the entry for "Rent Seeking".


It's worth noting that this is where all those 'onerous restrictions on business' come from. Existing businesses with large lobbying budgets.
 
2013-06-07 06:08:31 PM
But how else will the Koch bros and all their little Koch suckers get stock tips on what unstable countries/states to not invest in.

/Insider trading, wiretap style.
 
2013-06-07 06:08:34 PM

Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?


Only Rand Paul voted against the Patriot Act renewal out of all the senators in January.
 
2013-06-07 06:08:42 PM

Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?


When they work together we get lovely things like the Patriot Act and bills to legalize their insider trading.
 
2013-06-07 06:09:43 PM

Diogenes: But yes. The acceptance and complicity, if not outright support, is disgusting and chilling. The Patriot Act needs to be dismantled. And neither the Congress or the President (either of them) are willing to do that. I was super disappointed in Obama's statements today with regard to this. He basically said it's OK to sacrifice liberty for security. Fark that noise. He's really lost me on this one.


He was basically saying "ffs you guys hate it when there are terrorist attacks and you would never forgive a president for letting one go without getting to the bottom of it, but at the same time you also don't want us to get spy shiat to try and do that.  What the fark am I supposed to do?"  I agree with him to a point, but at the same time none of the big breakthroughs seem to have come through on PRISM intelligence.  I am guessing PRISM is used mainly for drug dealers.  I wish he had just shut it down while he was in office at the very least so he doesn't hand the next Republican president an extra 16 years of data.
 
2013-06-07 06:11:03 PM

SnakeLee: Diogenes: But yes. The acceptance and complicity, if not outright support, is disgusting and chilling. The Patriot Act needs to be dismantled. And neither the Congress or the President (either of them) are willing to do that. I was super disappointed in Obama's statements today with regard to this. He basically said it's OK to sacrifice liberty for security. Fark that noise. He's really lost me on this one.

He was basically saying "ffs you guys hate it when there are terrorist attacks and you would never forgive a president for letting one go without getting to the bottom of it, but at the same time you also don't want us to get spy shiat to try and do that.  What the fark am I supposed to do?"  I agree with him to a point, but at the same time none of the big breakthroughs seem to have come through on PRISM intelligence.  I am guessing PRISM is used mainly for drug dealers.  I wish he had just shut it down while he was in office at the very least so he doesn't hand the next Republican president an extra 16 years of data.


I am pretty sure PRISM has never been used for drug dealers. Then again I'm speculating as much as you are, but I'd rather err to the side of "it is what it says on the tin."
 
2013-06-07 06:12:12 PM
Twenty years ago they were gathering our phone records.  Now they are gathering our phone records.  Way to get all false outraged now.

/fake scandal is fake
 
2013-06-07 06:14:40 PM

catmandu: The conference was in 2008 when they thought they would end up with McCain's big government, not Obama's. Big government is OK as long as it is for "national security" or supporting the Christian Right.


IIRC, there was no point in 2008 when McCain was statistically ahead.
 
2013-06-07 06:15:42 PM
Are we actually going to try to get this sh*t fixed or are we going to be angry for a week and forget all about it?

Because that's what seems to happen with you ADHD people out there.
 
2013-06-07 06:17:01 PM

NewportBarGuy: Are we actually going to try to get this sh*t fixed or are we going to be angry for a week and forget all about it?

Because that's what seems to happen with you ADHD people out there.


Week and forget. Just like the last 5 times the media "uncovered" this kind of program. It'll come back up in the 2030s.
 
2013-06-07 06:17:23 PM
It figures.
 
2013-06-07 06:18:35 PM
Yes well the problem is Democrat Derangement Syndrome (DDS). When a person has DDS they vote against everything a Democrat votes for, even when it is everything they want or could hope to ever achieve in a piece of legislation. It is most advanced in those members of congress who vote against their own legislation even though they wrote it.
 
2013-06-07 06:18:37 PM
The Triumph & Pitfalls of the Security State

For the record, I had nothing to do with that breakout session.
 
2013-06-07 06:18:55 PM

NewportBarGuy: Are we actually going to try to get this sh*t fixed or are we going to be angry for a week and forget all about it?

Because that's what seems to happen with you ADHD people out there.


I don't think it's going away and this country is way too divided to get something done.  They will be called weak on defense.
 
2013-06-07 06:21:06 PM

Tigger: fusillade762: They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists. They need government to make regulations to keep their competition down and favorably dole out public property to them at knockdown rates. They couldn't succeed as they have with a level playing field.

It's worth noting that this is where all those 'onerous restrictions on business' come from. Existing businesses with large lobbying budgets.


Exactly. Nor is this anything new. For example, see Tucker: The Man and His Dream.
 
2013-06-07 06:21:47 PM

Mrbogey: catmandu: The conference was in 2008 when they thought they would end up with McCain's big government, not Obama's. Big government is OK as long as it is for "national security" or supporting the Christian Right.

IIRC, there was no point in 2008 when McCain was statistically ahead.


True, but in August 2008 with Palin still riding high there was hope among the GOP.
 
2013-06-07 06:21:55 PM
"The perception that the court is a rubber stamp is absolutely false," Walton's statement reads.


I'd think a town bike is a more apt comparison at this point.
 
2013-06-07 06:22:35 PM

netweavr: Week and forget. Just like the last 5 times the media "uncovered" this kind of program. It'll come back up in the 2030s.


Yeah, I figured. Oh well. Been going on since Echelon anyway.

"Mommy, why does the NSA need 14 acres of super computers?"

"Porn, son. Lots of porn."
 
2013-06-07 06:22:49 PM

Tigger: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, who signed an requiring Verizon to give the National Security Agency telephone records for tens of millions of American customers, attended an expense-paid judicial seminar sponsored by a libertarian think tank that featured lectures from a vocal proponent of executive branch powers.

Libertarianism and an unrestrained Executive Branch does not compute.  Unless I'm not reading this right.  A distinct Friday afternoon possibility.

They aren't libertarians they are corporate fascists. They need government to make regulations to keep their competition down and favorably dole out public property to them at knockdown rates. They couldn't succeed as they have with a level playing field.


They aren't libertarians.

They're fascists.
 
2013-06-07 06:27:23 PM
Oh, so this is the Koch brother's fault.  Makes total sense.  Always thought they ran the NSA.  Even Feinstein is on their payroll apparently.
 
2013-06-07 06:29:26 PM
Newest revelation?
The USPS photographs the front and back of every piece of mail they process.
That seems excessive if you ask me.
 
2013-06-07 06:29:32 PM

Diogenes: Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?

Lindsay Graham finally got an Obama scandal he can get behind!

But yes.  The acceptance and complicity, if not outright support, is disgusting and chilling.  The Patriot Act needs to be dismantled.  And neither the Congress or the President (either of them) are willing to do that.  I was super disappointed in Obama's statements today with regard to this.  He basically said it's OK to sacrifice liberty for security.  Fark that noise.  He's really lost me on this one.


"I'm conflicted here, folks. On the one hand, this proves Obama is a tyrannical despot who ignores all the rules. On the other hand, I kind of like tyrannical despots who break all the rules." -- Stephen Colbert
 
2013-06-07 06:30:37 PM
"From 2005 to 2009, FREE received a total of $430,000 in general operating support from the Claude R. Lambe Charitable Foundation, of which billionaire businessman Charles Koch is a director. The M.J. Murdock Charitable Trust, however, is listed as the sole funder for the national security conference that Vinson attended. "


OOOPS....never mind
 
2013-06-07 06:31:04 PM
So basically, all the crap the conspiracy theorists have been saying is right.
 
2013-06-07 06:32:05 PM

CynicalLA: Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?

When they work together we get lovely things like the Patriot Act and bills to legalize their insider trading.


For the record, there was no "bill to legalize insider trading." There was a failed attempt to broaden the definition of "insider" to encompass persons other than those inside a particular company. I share your apparent opinion that lawmakers should be prohibited from trading on information gained during the course of government service, but that has never been the law.
 
2013-06-07 06:32:10 PM

FC Exile: Newest revelation?
The USPS photographs the front and back of every piece of mail they process.
That seems excessive if you ask me.


Well, thinking about it that makes sense. I bet "photograph" consists of a backup of every scan they perform at a mail processing center.

In other words, they automate mail processing and hook up a database to the scanner.
 
2013-06-07 06:33:31 PM

BMulligan: CynicalLA: Nabb1: Diogenes: That doesn't really add up.  It may be true, but why would the Koch's be encouraging cooperation with Obama's BIG GOVERNMENT?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the GOP in Washington has been largely either silent or in favor of a lot of what has been revealed about our government's obsession with spying on all of us.  This is something that has broad support in both parties.  I guess we should feel better they can agree on something?

When they work together we get lovely things like the Patriot Act and bills to legalize their insider trading.

For the record, there was no "bill to legalize insider trading." There was a failed attempt to broaden the definition of "insider" to encompass persons other than those inside a particular company. I share your apparent opinion that lawmakers should be prohibited from trading on information gained during the course of government service, but that has never been the law.


Thanks for correcting me.
 
2013-06-07 06:33:50 PM

netweavr: FC Exile: Newest revelation?
The USPS photographs the front and back of every piece of mail they process.
That seems excessive if you ask me.

Well, thinking about it that makes sense. I bet "photograph" consists of a backup of every scan they perform at a mail processing center.

In other words, they automate mail processing and hook up a database to the scanner.


The monsters!
 
2013-06-07 06:36:07 PM

netweavr: FC Exile: Newest revelation?
The USPS photographs the front and back of every piece of mail they process.
That seems excessive if you ask me.

Well, thinking about it that makes sense. I bet "photograph" consists of a backup of every scan they perform at a mail processing center.

In other words, they automate mail processing and hook up a database to the scanner.


For what purpose. Retained for how long? That would have to be some database. Centralized? Searchable?
 
2013-06-07 06:38:04 PM
It's funny watching fark Liberals furrowing their brow, stomping around, wondering whether to feign fake outrage or have real poutrage as they desperately try to understand which part of the government Bush should still be blamed for.
 
2013-06-07 06:39:24 PM
I find headlines to be funnier when you don't have to spend a lot of time deciphering their meaning. Its a pet peeve.
 
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