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(BBC)   In shocking turn of events Microsoft clarifies its position on used games. "Ya know, we actually don't want to alienate our customers completely. Maybe. Kinda. Sorta"   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 338
    More: Followup, Microsoft, game publisher, Sony Computer Entertainment, digital copy  
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5539 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jun 2013 at 1:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-07 12:18:06 PM
But really, wouldn't we all kinda like to see GameStop go out of business?
 
2013-06-07 12:21:49 PM
"There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."

So it's just one friend then...

I know they farked up bad when one of my friends (who's a huge self-admitted Xbox fanboy) said he was severely disappointed in all the crap Microsoft is trying to pull and would be moving to PC gaming unless they changed a lot of what they're trying to do (which is doubtful).
 
2013-06-07 12:52:51 PM
I see my decision to never buy an XBox ever was a good one.
 
2013-06-07 12:59:42 PM

scottydoesntknow: "There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."

So it's just one friend then...

I know they farked up bad when one of my friends (who's a huge self-admitted Xbox fanboy) said he was severely disappointed in all the crap Microsoft is trying to pull and would be moving to PC gaming unless they changed a lot of what they're trying to do (which is doubtful).


Your friend is an idiot. What MS is doing is exactly what the PC market has done almost forever. There is almost no market for used PC games because most of them have DRM which prevents them from being used on more than one PC,
 
2013-06-07 01:05:00 PM

spman:

Your friend is an idiot. What MS is doing is exactly what the PC market has done almost forever. There is almost no market for used PC games because most of them have DRM which prevents them from being used on more than one PC,


I think he was referring to this....

i881.photobucket.com">

The conspiracy people on my Facebook page have been tossing that around for the last few days. I can imagine it's only going to get much worse.
 
2013-06-07 01:10:01 PM
Forgot to add, I'm a gaming whore who plays on any platform that has a game I'm interested in but the Xbox One is just kinda creepy. Not that I'm worth watching cause the recordings could be marketed as a sleep aid. It's just the whole aspect of having the prototype of HAL 9000 in my living room.
 
2013-06-07 01:11:48 PM

DjangoStonereaver: I see my decision to never buy an XBox ever was a good one.


How so? How does the possible features and limitations of the XBOX One affect your decision to not buy the original XBOX or XBOX 360? Both of which have amazing games and have been tons of fun over the years?
 
2013-06-07 01:12:44 PM

alwaysjaded: spman:

Your friend is an idiot. What MS is doing is exactly what the PC market has done almost forever. There is almost no market for used PC games because most of them have DRM which prevents them from being used on more than one PC,

I think he was referring to this....

[i881.photobucket.com image 320x485]">

The conspiracy people on my Facebook page have been tossing that around for the last few days. I can imagine it's only going to get much worse.


spman: scottydoesntknow: "There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."

So it's just one friend then...

I know they farked up bad when one of my friends (who's a huge self-admitted Xbox fanboy) said he was severely disappointed in all the crap Microsoft is trying to pull and would be moving to PC gaming unless they changed a lot of what they're trying to do (which is doubtful).

Your friend is an idiot. What MS is doing is exactly what the PC market has done almost forever. There is almost no market for used PC games because most of them have DRM which prevents them from being used on more than one PC,


A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.

B) It's not even the used games (he hasn't bought a used game in years). It's the security concerns that alwaysjaded pointed out and the fact that it has to ping a server every 24 hours. He spends half the year on a ranch with a shiatty internet connection that can go out on a cloudy day.
 
2013-06-07 01:28:45 PM
I suck so much at video games that I can download a demo and be satisfied.
 
2013-06-07 01:56:31 PM

scottydoesntknow: B) It's not even the used games (he hasn't bought a used game in years). It's the security concerns that alwaysjaded pointed out and the fact that it has to ping a server every 24 hours. He spends half the year on a ranch with a shiatty internet connection that can go out on a cloudy day.


Then he's just going to have to accept the fact that he needs a new goddamn hobby. Live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere with a shiatty internet connection? Spend more time with your horse. Always-on connection demands are coming, and the only thing that you can do about it is not play anymore.
 
2013-06-07 02:03:42 PM

Lando Lincoln: Always-on connection demands are coming, and the only thing that you can do about it is not play anymore.


It looks like we found Adam Orth's Fark handle.
 
2013-06-07 02:04:46 PM
What was the name of that device in the wall in 1984?
 
2013-06-07 02:05:22 PM

scottydoesntknow: A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.


$10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?
 
2013-06-07 02:10:04 PM
Hypothetically, if one's son hooks up an Xbox One to the entertainment centre in the living room - would it be prudent NOT to stand up and drop trou to release one's flatulence when watching TV alone?
I don't want to find myself on an MS version of AFV.
 
2013-06-07 02:10:40 PM

TNel: scottydoesntknow: A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.

$10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?


Steam sales?  It is quite common for six month to two year old games to go on sale there for $15 or less.  Easy example: Borderlands 2 (released last Sept.) was $13.59 a little less than a month ago.
 
2013-06-07 02:11:04 PM

TNel: scottydoesntknow: A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.

$10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?


Hes comparing steam/Gog sale prices to full priced console games.  It's a very common thing to do.
 
2013-06-07 02:11:14 PM
This isn't even the worst part.

Combine how Kinect has to be always connected to the XBox with the recent NSA shenanigans.

Have fun.
 
2013-06-07 02:11:44 PM
This is not about security concerns, this is not about GameStop, this is not about piracy, this is not about middlemen pocketing resale fees, this is not about compensating creators.  This is about the control of information.  If you are opposed to resale, piracy, or ease of access in distributing games, you are opposed to the free flow of information.  Period.  Games are artistic expression beyond the point of "worth preserving", and Microsoft is telling anyone who values video game history--the right to play games as they see fit--to fark off, because it's more profitable.  So fark Microsoft.  GameStop may be a cruel bag of bones, but nobody cared about American resale until one retailer monopolized it and made bank.
 
2013-06-07 02:12:30 PM

TNel: scottydoesntknow: A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.

$10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?


Steam.
 
2013-06-07 02:13:35 PM

GreenAdder: Lando Lincoln: Always-on connection demands are coming, and the only thing that you can do about it is not play anymore.

It looks like we found Adam Orth's Fark handle.


I don't know who that is, and I don't really care. Fighting this issue is like photographers fighting against digital imaging. Fight all you want, but it ain't gonna make a difference in the long run.
 
2013-06-07 02:16:57 PM

TheBlackrose: This isn't even the worst part.

Combine how Kinect has to be always connected to the XBox with the recent NSA shenanigans.

Have fun.


Yeah, the camera thing is weird, but nobody knows the requirements for that at this point, so I'll complain about it when we know what those are. If you put a piece of black tape over the lens will you not be able to run the Xbox One at all? Or will it not play certain games? Nothing is set in stone.
 
2013-06-07 02:17:08 PM

Lando Lincoln: I don't know who that is, and I don't really care. Fighting this issue is like photographers fighting against digital imaging. Fight all you want, but it ain't gonna make a difference in the long run.


Considering that this moment is going to become the figurehead for the decline of the most lucrative walled garden in video games (the console video game market), not really, no.  (And yes, console video games would be on their way out, even if they hadn't done this, but it will become good water-cooler talk.)
 
2013-06-07 02:17:22 PM
fc03.deviantart.net
 
2013-06-07 02:17:38 PM

TNel: $10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?


This one.
 
2013-06-07 02:19:11 PM

Lando Lincoln: GreenAdder: Lando Lincoln: Always-on connection demands are coming, and the only thing that you can do about it is not play anymore.

It looks like we found Adam Orth's Fark handle.

I don't know who that is, and I don't really care. Fighting this issue is like photographers fighting against digital imaging. Fight all you want, but it ain't gonna make a difference in the long run.


Ah, how is this anything like that?  Digital won because it was fast, and free to develop pictures.  It was more convenient to end users, so they loved it.

Always online is the exact opposite.  It's worse as an experience for the end user.
 
2013-06-07 02:19:35 PM
So if I don't own it how can they make me pay state taxes on it?
 
2013-06-07 02:20:23 PM

Lando Lincoln: But really, wouldn't we all kinda like to see GameStop go out of business?


NO. I don't understand the GameStop hatred, they are a chain of pawn shops specializing in console and handheld games. I don't know why anybody ever expects to get more than 20% of the retail price of anything at a pawn shop.
 
2013-06-07 02:20:57 PM

Antimatter: TNel: scottydoesntknow: A) PC games are almost universally cheaper than console games (barring subscription MMOs or EA/Origin games) so it's easier to justify spending $10 on a game you can't sell back vs. $60.

$10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?

Hes comparing steam/Gog sale prices to full priced console games.  It's a very common thing to do.


Which isn't the same and should not be in the same sentence.  A 2 year old game that is heavily discounted on the PC can be found for the Xbox for usually $19.99 or less.

So to everyone saying Steam:  How much does a new PC title cost on Steam and compare that cost to a 360.  I am willing to bet the costs are very similar.
 
2013-06-07 02:21:37 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-07 02:21:38 PM

GreenAdder: TNel: $10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?

This one.


For NEW games, or older titles?  Because last I checked, most new games were 50-60 a pop, even on steam.  Comparing full priced, new console games to older, on sale Pc games is apples or oranges, and a huge misrepresentation of their markets.

If you going to compare lowest PC prices, you need to also list the lowest console price.
 
2013-06-07 02:22:39 PM

Lando Lincoln: scottydoesntknow: B) It's not even the used games (he hasn't bought a used game in years). It's the security concerns that alwaysjaded pointed out and the fact that it has to ping a server every 24 hours. He spends half the year on a ranch with a shiatty internet connection that can go out on a cloudy day.

Then he's just going to have to accept the fact that he needs a new goddamn hobby. Live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere with a shiatty internet connection? Spend more time with your horse. Always-on connection demands are coming, and the only thing that you can do about it is not play anymore.


I know military deployments will not be having a new xbox in their community tent anymore.  That 24 hour ping is really very limiting for people who use it in such a way, where there is power but no/limited internet.  Also dampening the likelihood of a xbox being in the tent and dorms stateside is the restrictions of games per console.(or consoles per game or whatever).

It's funny when Sony is more friendly to american military and users in general than the american company. I almost hope Sony advertises something along these lines and gets a leg up on Xbox.

I can understand some DRM, but the 360 took some fairly severe modding talent to get to be able to burn/play copied games, and was only fueled by cannibalizing parts(and data) from the plethora of dead boxes.  In short, it wasn't a widespread problem at all(figure in a lot of the "hackers" had legit copies of everything and their modded box was just a hobby horse for mods).  I can't see any legitimate reason for even more hoops, as they're alienating more people than have ever circumvented the DRM in the first place.

Those that did circumvent the DRM previously are just going to try all the harder to crack it and get it out to the public.  I wish them the best of luck in this case.  I'll only get an XBone if it can be severely messed with (at this point).
 
2013-06-07 02:23:24 PM
For the past 2 years I've only used Gamefly for my PS3 so hopefully PS4 will handle Gamefly as well. I probably won't get the PS4 for a year or two but after that I'll get it during a sale or special package deal they do with big name games.

I've had a PS since the original one and could never feel comfortable with an xbox controller thus I never got an xbox even after graduating college and money not being so tight.
 
2013-06-07 02:23:58 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Lando Lincoln: But really, wouldn't we all kinda like to see GameStop go out of business?

NO. I don't understand the GameStop hatred, they are a chain of pawn shops specializing in console and handheld games. I don't know why anybody ever expects to get more than 20% of the retail price of anything at a pawn shop.


I don't exactly hate them, I think it's garbage that used games costs $2 less than a new copy.
 
2013-06-07 02:25:06 PM

Slaves2Darkness: NO. I don't understand the GameStop hatred, they are a chain of pawn shops specializing in console and handheld games. I don't know why anybody ever expects to get more than 20% of the retail price of anything at a pawn shop.


Game companies selling their games in the American market accepted the first-sale doctrine as a necessary evil and actually approved of used game sales until one company took it and made it lucrative.  They only ramped up the war against GameStop when the economy tanked and sales started declining.  (Ignoring that the exploding game budgets and reliance on a volatile casual market is what put them in their shiatfit to begin with.)
 
2013-06-07 02:25:24 PM
The Xbox One will come up against Sony's new console, the PlayStation 4.

All Sony has to do is say "Hey, we really don't care who you give the disc to as you long as you paid for it the first time."  And then they win.
 
2013-06-07 02:26:26 PM
We still get a lot of mileage out of our PS2s.  I would pay a lot of money for a 3DO (with Starcontrol 2-- one of the best party games EVER)
 
2013-06-07 02:27:01 PM

TNel: Slaves2Darkness: Lando Lincoln: But really, wouldn't we all kinda like to see GameStop go out of business?

NO. I don't understand the GameStop hatred, they are a chain of pawn shops specializing in console and handheld games. I don't know why anybody ever expects to get more than 20% of the retail price of anything at a pawn shop.

I don't exactly hate them, I think it's garbage that used games costs $2 less than a new copy.


Get ready for worse then that.  under these rules, private sales are basically SOL, making retailers like gamestop the only way to trade games in.
 
2013-06-07 02:28:00 PM

TNel: So to everyone saying Steam: How much does a new PC title cost on Steam and compare that cost to a 360. I am willing to bet the costs are very similar.


I dunno. I bought Skyrim not too terribly long after it came out for $50, which was probably the same price you'd have paid at the time for a console copy.

Except I also got four other games with it.
 
2013-06-07 02:28:40 PM

skozlaw: TNel: So to everyone saying Steam: How much does a new PC title cost on Steam and compare that cost to a 360. I am willing to bet the costs are very similar.

I dunno. I bought Skyrim not too terribly long after it came out for $50, which was probably the same price you'd have paid at the time for a console copy.

Except I also got four other games with it.


was that a steam preorder bonus or something?
 
2013-06-07 02:29:18 PM

spman: scottydoesntknow: "There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once."

So it's just one friend then...

I know they farked up bad when one of my friends (who's a huge self-admitted Xbox fanboy) said he was severely disappointed in all the crap Microsoft is trying to pull and would be moving to PC gaming unless they changed a lot of what they're trying to do (which is doubtful).

Your friend is an idiot. What MS is doing is exactly what the PC market has done almost forever. There is almost no market for used PC games because most of them have DRM which prevents them from being used on more than one PC,


You are an idiot or a troll. All of my games are available to me on steam or my hd, completely offline.
Used games? That is why GOG exists.
Gog gives me completely drm freegames on the cheap.
Playable for as long as I have a pc as opposed to however long MS feels like sustaining servers.
I can already watch tv and blu-rays when offline.
So I dont need their proprietary POS. Many people are coming to the same conclusion.
Microsoft just XBoned themselves
 
2013-06-07 02:29:57 PM
"Ya know, we actually don't want to alienate our customers completely. Maybe. Kinda. Sorta But we're not going to stop EA from alienating the hell out of them."

Fixed.
 
2013-06-07 02:30:29 PM
Atari 2600 FTW.
 
2013-06-07 02:30:33 PM
I'm done with video games. I wasn't liking the on-line/invasive trend as it is, and then last week I was unceremoniously permanently banned form the PlayStation Network. They made a mistake and I'm entirely innocent, but try explaining that to the drones at the PSN customer service. Fark it- back to being productive for a while....
 
2013-06-07 02:32:16 PM
At this point I can't care anymore, my 360 is really just a Bethesda delivery platform, with a sprinkling of Netflix and Amazon. As long as they manage to allow me to play any future Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles with minimal frustration while keeping access to my other media outputs, I'm on board.
 
2013-06-07 02:33:14 PM

omeganuepsilon: I can understand some DRM, but the 360 took some fairly severe modding talent to get to be able to burn/play copied games, and was only fueled by cannibalizing parts(and data) from the plethora of dead boxes.  In short, it wasn't a widespread problem at all(figure in a lot of the "hackers" had legit copies of everything and their modded box was just a hobby horse for mods).  I can't see any legitimate reason for even more hoops, as they're alienating more people than have ever circumvented the DRM in the first place.

Those that did circumvent the DRM previously are just going to try all the harder to crack it and get it out to the public.  I wish them the best of luck in this case.  I'll only get an XBone if it can be severely messed with (at this point).


This isn't about piracy.  It's about putting an end to the secondary market.
 
2013-06-07 02:33:38 PM

jonnya: I'm done with video games. I wasn't liking the on-line/invasive trend as it is, and then last week I was unceremoniously permanently banned form the PlayStation Network. They made a mistake and I'm entirely innocent, but try explaining that to the drones at the PSN customer service. Fark it- back to being productive for a while....


I'm not saying that there's no way that you could have been banned and actually be the innocent angel you claim to be but I think there's more to the story.
 
2013-06-07 02:35:00 PM

Antimatter: GreenAdder: TNel: $10 for a new PC game?!  Holy hell what truck are you buying your games off of the back of?

This one.

For NEW games, or older titles?  Because last I checked, most new games were 50-60 a pop, even on steam.  Comparing full priced, new console games to older, on sale Pc games is apples or oranges, and a huge misrepresentation of their markets.

If you going to compare lowest PC prices, you need to also list the lowest console price.


Define "new".  At release, yeah, prices are that much.  But sales start at half off as early as three months after release, and typically are at 75% off or more the original price before the game is a year old.
 
2013-06-07 02:35:47 PM

omeganuepsilon: It's funny when Sony is more friendly to american military and users in general than the american company. I almost hope Sony advertises something along these lines and gets a leg up on Xbox.


You're assuming that Sony is not going to demand pings as well. You're giving a hell of a lot of credit to a company that goes out of its way to screw over users.
 
2013-06-07 02:35:56 PM
XBox One - Brilliant long-term plan to force more people onto Windows 8.
 
2013-06-07 02:37:30 PM

Luse: You are an idiot or a troll. All of my games are available to me on steam or my hd, completely offline.
Used games? That is why GOG exists.
Gog gives me completely drm freegames on the cheap.
Playable for as long as I have a pc as opposed to however long MS feels like sustaining servers.
I can already watch tv and blu-rays when offline.
So I dont need their proprietary POS. Many people are coming to the same conclusion.
Microsoft just XBoned themselves


We'll see, but I think this is a bunch of frothy hate about nothing.  The One will sell well and the PS4 will sale well and life will go one.
 
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