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(Politico)   Bush critics turn on Obama. This is his Waterloo   (politico.com) divider line 60
    More: Interesting, President Obama, George W. Bush, George W. Bush critics, humans, Mark Udall, Peter DeFazio, Elijah Cummings, Ron Wyden  
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1592 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Jun 2013 at 11:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-07 08:11:15 AM
This is a surprise why? Obama isn't a liberal, despite what conservitards say.
 
2013-06-07 10:06:05 AM

Lurking Fear: This is a surprise why? Obama isn't a liberal, despite what conservitards say.


because when you lose the support of the party, you kinda get screwed? I assume at least. I think even the liberal democrats knew he wasn't liberal, just more so than Mittins and McCan't
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-07 10:07:27 AM
It's not going to make a difference.

No one is going to put an end to the surveillance because they would be blamed for the next terrorist attack.
 
2013-06-07 10:09:22 AM
"I HATE THIS PROGRAM? WHAT SHOULD I DO?"

Apparently, blame whoever is most obvious right now, then absolve yourself from any responsibility.
 
2013-06-07 10:10:32 AM
If i have "Waterloo" in my head all morning like I fear I might, I'm coming for you, submitter
 
2013-06-07 10:19:42 AM

somedude210: Lurking Fear: This is a surprise why? Obama isn't a liberal, despite what conservitards say.

because when you lose the support of the party, you kinda get screwed? I assume at least. I think even the liberal democrats knew he wasn't liberal, just more so than Mittins and McCan't


You make the ridiculous assumption that the entire democratic party is liberal, which it is not.
 
2013-06-07 10:22:05 AM
It is funny how all of this surveillance wasn't objected to by the right while Dumbya was in office. Remember the old "if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to fear"? Funny how when the other side is doing it there is a problem.

I don't like ANY of them doing it. Treating everyone as a criminal is wrong no matter who's doing the snooping.

That being said, still can't haz scandal yet.
 
2013-06-07 10:36:25 AM

Lurking Fear: You make the ridiculous assumption that the entire democratic party is liberal, which it is not.


I never once said the entire democratic party was liberal, numbnuts. I said the liberal democrats, as in the democrats that happen to be liberal leaning, didn't think he was liberal, just better.

christ al-farking-mighty, don't be so goddamn quick to farking pounce on a guy
 
2013-06-07 10:38:14 AM

Doc_Gerbil: It is funny how all of this surveillance wasn't objected to by the right while Dumbya was in office. Remember the old "if you're not doing anything illegal you have nothing to fear"? Funny how when the other side is doing it there is a problem.

I don't like ANY of them doing it. Treating everyone as a criminal is wrong no matter who's doing the snooping.

That being said, still can't haz scandal yet.


I remember being shouted down then, and being shouted down now isn't really any better. Especially when the same people who were giving Bush shiat over programs like this now defend Obama for doing the same thing.

I will say this though: at least the Democrats aren't calling me a traitor for opposing it like the Republicans did.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-07 10:44:58 AM

Aarontology: I remember being shouted down then, and being shouted down now isn't really any better. Especially when the same people who were giving Bush shiat over programs like this now defend Obama for doing the same thing.

I will say this though: at least the Democrats aren't calling me a traitor for opposing it like the Republicans did.


That's because Bush didn't do the same thing, he conducted actual wiretapping and did it without permission from the FISA court.

The law may be lax, but at least Obama is following it.
 
2013-06-07 10:48:05 AM

somedude210: Lurking Fear: You make the ridiculous assumption that the entire democratic party is liberal, which it is not.

I never once said the entire democratic party was liberal, numbnuts. I said the liberal democrats, as in the democrats that happen to be liberal leaning, didn't think he was liberal, just better.

christ al-farking-mighty, don't be so goddamn quick to farking pounce on a guy


You said: "because when you lose the support of the party, you kinda get screwed?" Blanket statements tend to cover the whole thing. Now if you added a little nuance like "majority of the party" then you'd be right. but you didn't, so I only had that to work with.
 
2013-06-07 10:50:41 AM
This is Obama's Whitey Tape.
 
2013-06-07 10:52:20 AM
Gee, do you think this will hurt his re-election chances?
 
2013-06-07 11:00:26 AM
Great. Now I have ABBA stuck in my head.
 
2013-06-07 11:01:18 AM

vpb: Aarontology: I remember being shouted down then, and being shouted down now isn't really any better. Especially when the same people who were giving Bush shiat over programs like this now defend Obama for doing the same thing.

I will say this though: at least the Democrats aren't calling me a traitor for opposing it like the Republicans did.

That's because Bush didn't do the same thing, he conducted actual wiretapping and did it without permission from the FISA court.

The law may be lax, but at least Obama is following it.


FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality. They're also supposed to only be used in cases where the time it would take to obtain a warrant would prevent action upon an immediate threat.

It's also worth noting that Obama approves of granting telecom immunity to the companies that do this kind of thing. Which was how Bush was able to get around certain laws.
 
2013-06-07 11:25:28 AM

Lurking Fear: This is a surprise why? Obama isn't a liberal, despite what conservitards say.


Because Republicans march in lockstep, and they expect Democrats to do the same.
 
2013-06-07 11:26:14 AM

Aarontology: FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality.


They're still a Federal court convened under a duly enacted law. If you want that to change, you should take it up with Congress, since the Executive can't do a thing about it.
 
2013-06-07 11:27:44 AM
It's almost like these Congressman's abdication of their civil duties when these bills were being passed in Congress under Bush is the real crime, not the executive branches continued use of programs these Congressman made legal.
 
2013-06-07 11:28:04 AM
The shiat hit the fan the second that Holder couldn't assert that the administration wasn't spying on congress this week. Obama hasn't changed his behavior since he did a 180 on issues after being elected, as a President he's been remarkably consistent throughout his term. Now that congress finds that they just might be treated like normal Americans are, these guys are going batshiat.
 
2013-06-07 11:28:19 AM
This thread is going to suck.
 
2013-06-07 11:28:40 AM

qorkfiend: Aarontology: FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality.

They're still a Federal court convened under a duly enacted law. If you want that to change, you should take it up with Congress, since the Executive can't do a thing about it.


Well the executive branch could stop doing the surveillance they are legally able to do...

That said, any member of congress whining about this who has not submitted a bill to make this illegal is just being a blowhard.
 
2013-06-07 11:29:43 AM
nope not even close. the congress and senate knew about these programs back when Bush was in office.
they signed off on them then.
 
2013-06-07 11:30:58 AM

max_pooper: Well the executive branch could stop doing the surveillance they are legally able to do...


and then you have another major terrorist attack that could have been stopped and everyone is pointing fingers at you saying you're to blame for not doing everything you could to stop it.
 
2013-06-07 11:31:33 AM

BunkoSquad: If i have "Waterloo" in my head all morning like I fear I might, I'm coming for you, submitter


videokeman.com
 
2013-06-07 11:32:36 AM

1derful: The shiat hit the fan the second that Holder couldn't assert that the administration wasn't spying on congress this week. Obama hasn't changed his behavior since he did a 180 on issues after being elected, as a President he's been remarkably consistent throughout his term. Now that congress finds that they just might be treated like normal Americans are, these guys are going batshiat.


and the ones who are crying the most are the ones who smiled when they signed off on it years ago.
 
2013-06-07 11:33:20 AM

Hobodeluxe: nope not even close. the congress and senate knew about these programs back when Bush was in office.
they signed off on them then.



Correct.  This is theater.  It has been approved ad nauseum.  The outrage is designed to get people re-elected.  This entire program has been growing and getting more sophisticated every year at least since Carnivore.  It will not stop now.  And we have bred an entire generation of youth that sees this as acceptable.
 
2013-06-07 11:33:27 AM

Maud Dib: BunkoSquad: If i have "Waterloo" in my head all morning like I fear I might, I'm coming for you, submitter

[videokeman.com image 630x480]


you can't escape if you wanted to.
 
2013-06-07 11:33:31 AM
It's about goddamned time.  I was wondering how much longer "Bush Lite" was going to be given a pass by his party.
 
2013-06-07 11:37:01 AM
I was for repealing the Patriot Act before it was cool.
 
2013-06-07 11:38:12 AM

Aarontology: FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality.


And Bush couldn't even be bothered to do that.

While I approve of neither act, there is a significant difference between gathering phone records with a warrant and conducting actual phone taps without one. People really need to stop pretending that what the Obama admin has done with regards to Verizon is the same or worse than what Bush was doing.
 
2013-06-07 11:39:05 AM
This is Obama's Dancing Queen.
 
2013-06-07 11:41:05 AM

Thrag: Aarontology: FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality.

And Bush couldn't even be bothered to do that.

While I approve of neither act, there is a significant difference between gathering phone records with a warrant and conducting actual phone taps without one. People really need to stop pretending that what the Obama admin has done with regards to Verizon is the same or worse than what Bush was doing.


This.  The Bush administration was doing warrantless wiretapping even though he had the FISA court specifically created for that reason.  At least Obama's following the law.

That being said I still think it's wrong and that Congress should repeal the Patriot Act, but we all know that's never gonna happen.
 
2013-06-07 11:43:33 AM
Remember this the next time (probably in this thread) where someone says "both sides are the same!"

The same poeple who criticized Bush on civil liberties are critcizing Obama on the same.


The same guys who defended, in the strongest terms, Bush on drones, warrentless wiretapping, torture, inprisoning american citizens without a trial,  targeting liberal groups with the IRS, firing AG's for not pursuing investigations against Democrats, outting CIA agents, setting up a program to check for keywords in all email traffic etc...   are now critizing Obama for the destroying our liberties.

Just last night I heard the same radio talk show host who literally called into question people's loyalty to the US who critized some of Bush's actions mentioned above, he is now outraged on all the liberties the communist dictator Obama has taken away from Americans!
 
2013-06-07 11:54:56 AM
God damn those are some ugly people
 
2013-06-07 12:05:58 PM

AngryDragon: It's about goddamned time.  I was wondering how much longer "Bush Lite" was going to be given a pass by his party.


It's funny how somebody says this, almost verbatim, in almost every thread where a Democrat criticizes Obama.  And yet, they always act like it's the first time.
 
2013-06-07 12:10:35 PM

BafflerMeal: Hobodeluxe: nope not even close. the congress and senate knew about these programs back when Bush was in office.
they signed off on them then.


Correct.  This is theater.  It has been approved ad nauseum.  The outrage is designed to get people re-elected.  This entire program has been growing and getting more sophisticated every year at least since Carnivore.  It will not stop now.  And we have bred an entire generation of youth that sees this as acceptable.


Right, the youth are just blind little lambs to the slaughter. You haven't checked in on reddits reaction to all this, have you?
 
2013-06-07 12:19:21 PM

GhostFish: BafflerMeal: Hobodeluxe: nope not even close. the congress and senate knew about these programs back when Bush was in office.
they signed off on them then.


Correct.  This is theater.  It has been approved ad nauseum.  The outrage is designed to get people re-elected.  This entire program has been growing and getting more sophisticated every year at least since Carnivore.  It will not stop now.  And we have bred an entire generation of youth that sees this as acceptable.

Right, the youth are just blind little lambs to the slaughter. You haven't checked in on reddits reaction to all this, have you?


Maybe we will surprise him.
 
2013-06-07 12:48:18 PM

Lurking Fear: somedude210: Lurking Fear: You make the ridiculous assumption that the entire democratic party is liberal, which it is not.

I never once said the entire democratic party was liberal, numbnuts. I said the liberal democrats, as in the democrats that happen to be liberal leaning, didn't think he was liberal, just better.

christ al-farking-mighty, don't be so goddamn quick to farking pounce on a guy

You said: "because when you lose the support of the party, you kinda get screwed?" Blanket statements tend to cover the whole thing. Now if you added a little nuance like "majority of the party" then you'd be right. but you didn't, so I only had that to work with.


Actually, I wonder if the majority of Democrats are liberal. The party always had its centrists, but there has been an influx of voters who would have identified as Republican in previous decades.
 
2013-06-07 12:57:46 PM
Yeah. Waterloo. Before, Obama was Welliington. Now he's probably just  Blücher.
 
2013-06-07 01:13:21 PM
Can you hear the drums, Obama?
 
2013-06-07 01:16:14 PM

0Icky0: Yeah. Waterloo. Before, Obama was Welliington. Now he's probably just  Blücher.



jmount43.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-07 01:22:19 PM

max_pooper: qorkfiend: Aarontology: FISA courts are little more than rubber stamps to give something the veneer of legality.

They're still a Federal court convened under a duly enacted law. If you want that to change, you should take it up with Congress, since the Executive can't do a thing about it.

Well the executive branch could stop doing the surveillance they are legally able to do...

That said, any member of congress whining about this who has not submitted a bill to make this illegal is just being a blowhard.


Well, sure, but that doesn't even begin to address the root of the problem.
 
2013-06-07 01:53:27 PM
On a scale of 1 to 10, I give this 4 Benghazis.
 
2013-06-07 02:10:53 PM
For me, the problem is now not trusting the gov't to do the right thing with said information. If somebody in government used tax information illegally, targeted conservatives illegally, then why am I to believe they will not use this phone information illegally?

From my understanding of the program, they collect the data b/c the phone companies purge this info after a few months. However, the NSA can't actually *use* the data and look for something until they get an order from this so-called 'secret court.' The gathering happens in order to have this info on hand to research potential terrorist activity when it happens and be able to respond quickly.

This I am okay with.

However, Obama's Administration broke that trust with me when these scandals appeared recently. Holder is now claiming that he never thought the Fox News reporter was a spy nor did he plan on accusing him of spying, but yet he lied to the judge in order to get the action approved. IRS leaked private tax info that they are NOT allowed to release. Etc. This is why I am not happy right now with the Obama Administration.

Liberals should be fuming just because Obama ran on a platform of ridding the government of this kind of spying related to the Patriot Act. Instead of eliminating the program, it sounds like he expanded it.
 
2013-06-07 02:41:48 PM

Hobodeluxe: Maud Dib: BunkoSquad: If i have "Waterloo" in my head all morning like I fear I might, I'm coming for you, submitter

[videokeman.com image 630x480]

you can't escape if you wanted to.


Promise to love me forever more?

/Now it's stuck in my head too
 
2013-06-07 02:43:11 PM

God-is-a-Taco: God damn those are some ugly people


And to think that was the style in 1970's Europe.

What the hell were we thinking back then?
 
2013-06-07 02:51:23 PM

SilentStrider: Great. Now I have ABBA stuck in my head.


We had to take a chance that would happen, Fernando
 
2013-06-07 03:01:29 PM

give me doughnuts: Can you hear the drums, Obama?


I remember long ago another starry night like this 

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-06-07 03:31:01 PM
I am definitely not voting for Obama in 2016.
 
2013-06-07 03:42:24 PM
 
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