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(Visual.ly)   Think the government has data on you? Big corporations already won that game   (visual.ly) divider line 46
    More: Interesting, information broker  
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1519 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jun 2013 at 3:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-06 02:03:24 PM
Obvious tag in hiding?
 
2013-06-06 02:14:34 PM
You can't opt out. You can only salt the mine with disturbing results.
 
2013-06-06 02:16:47 PM
However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.
 
2013-06-06 02:20:02 PM
It's been going on since the 90s. Equifax had a machine called "the pyramid" which were 30 servers stacked together in a giant U shape. This was before the 1u rackmount high density servers that we see today. It had a 50mb ethernet mesh that connected each one together so it could run queries on transactions as a 30 processor unit. Every credit card transaction by every consumer who went through Equifax was examined and the results given to other corporations. Want to know who is buying diapers? No problem here is their contact info and address for you to send them a coupon. Looking for a certain credit profile? No problem here are the people on the border of bad credit that are X amount in debt already - you can sell cheap loans to them. ETC.

Now that we're in "Big Data" mode it's only getting more intimate but it's certainly not new. Instead of looking at a dozen factors now we can mine hundreds or even thousands of factors looking for a particular behavior model that might let a company sell to you even faster. What we're seeing is corporations bringing offline data back online. Databases from activity dozens or more years back so they can study trends. Old data is becoming just as valuable as new data.

Frankly it's pretty cool but if you don't like it .. live off the grid.
 
2013-06-06 02:26:10 PM
That's what Google is for.

Actually, I think that both the government and corporations use Google for spying on us.
 
2013-06-06 02:27:21 PM

Rincewind53: However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.


Can be if they have a strong lobbying influence.

And the scenario xynix describes.  Lots of data that can be held against you.  And you can't know what it is, the formulae used to arrive at conclusions, how it's used, and whom it's shared with.
 
2013-06-06 02:34:51 PM

xynix: Equifax had a machine called "the pyramid" which were 30 servers stacked together in a giant U shape.


Idiots don't even know what a pyramid looks like.
 
2013-06-06 02:45:35 PM
I worked for the government at one time, so I kind of assume they have records on me someplace

/probably the same warehouse where that ark thingy is stored
 
2013-06-06 02:48:08 PM

Diogenes: Rincewind53: However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.

Can be if they have a strong lobbying influence.

And the scenario xynix describes.  Lots of data that can be held against you.  And you can't know what it is, the formulae used to arrive at conclusions, how it's used, and whom it's shared with.


No matter how rich Apple is, they can't put you in jail for buying a Dell.
 
2013-06-06 02:48:46 PM

Car_Ramrod: xynix: Equifax had a machine called "the pyramid" which were 30 servers stacked together in a giant U shape.

Idiots don't even know what a pyramid looks like.


It used a triadic instruction set. Binary being 1 or 0, triadic was -1 0 1. I believe one of the numbers was for state or something.. I don't know it's been 15 years and I never was good at binary.
 
2013-06-06 03:02:47 PM

xynix: Car_Ramrod: xynix: Equifax had a machine called "the pyramid" which were 30 servers stacked together in a giant U shape.

Idiots don't even know what a pyramid looks like.

It used a triadic instruction set. Binary being 1 or 0, triadic was -1 0 1. I believe one of the numbers was for state or something.. I don't know it's been 15 years and I never was good at binary.


The Russians invented and then threw out trinary computers in the 50's. They were likely running Crays which do use a unique instruction set that has a different size of instruction than other contemporary computers.
 
2013-06-06 03:06:05 PM

Tr0mBoNe: You can't opt out. You can only salt the mine with disturbing results.


static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-06-06 03:06:54 PM
Hmm, so now I can bore large corporations with my sad little life? I'm pretty sure the largest part of my "file" would be "spends too much time on Fark, stuck on level 105 of Candy Crush, not that good with Photoshop."
 
2013-06-06 03:08:19 PM
Get a free copy of your Lexus/Nexus consumer report.  You have no idea how much they have on you.
 
2013-06-06 03:14:12 PM
The thing about how corporations use data is that for them the individual person isn't very useful, they more like Hari Seldon in that they are primarily concerned in people in AGGREGATE. One specific person watching Honey Boo Boo doesn't matter, while millions in a single demographic watching Honey Boo Boo IS info they want to know.

Hell, even when they do target you more specifically, there is actually an upside in making ads more relevant to you. I, for one, would LOVE to have television ads that were specifically targeted to me so that I could watch live again TV without having to suffer through Cialis ads that make me think of old wrinkly people having sex, or humane society ads with sad songs over montages of pitiful looking animals that make me want to slit my wrists.
 
2013-06-06 03:16:04 PM
I remember a survey back in the late 90s, asked "Whom would you trust the most with your private data? 1) The Government. 2) Microsoft. 3) Hackers. 4) Local police."

Wonder what the results would look like now.
 
2013-06-06 03:20:03 PM
The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.
 
2013-06-06 03:23:56 PM

nekom: Get a free copy of your Lexus/Nexus consumer report.  You have no idea how much they have on you.


Where's Anonymous when you need them huh?
 
2013-06-06 03:29:46 PM

AngryDragon: The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.


They're trying. Google is fighting tooth and nail to keep the NSA out of it's databases. Eventually they will fail and everyone will then be open to government snooping. The corporations have been fighting the fed on this heavily for the past couple years. The general population is mostly unaware of the fighting going on in Capital Hill as there are much more pressing matters for the average person to be concerned about.

Once those vaults are opened in the name of "national security" we will have lost much more than the Patriot act stole from us. It will happen though.. as the cow-like herd mentality of our republic continues to wonder what's happening next on the Kardashians.

My advice is to keep your nose clean and buy your sex toys and bongs in a brick and mortar place with cash.
 
2013-06-06 03:30:09 PM

Mad_Radhu: Hell, even when they do target you more specifically, there is actually an upside in making ads more relevant to you.


Like Target sending a teenager coupons for baby products before her parents knew she was pregnant.
 
2013-06-06 03:35:21 PM
They can have all my information, listen to all my calls, record all that data and I hope they choke on it. The only thing required to make it all stop is to turn off the electricity and when I die, my personal bodily electricity having been turned off, they can fark themselves.

It's pointless information hoarding driven by "contractors" and a million people couldn't read it all in a million years. This is why we can't have universal health insurance.
 
2013-06-06 03:40:26 PM
Let's compare what each does with the information. Corporations want to sell you stuff. Government wants to arrest you.
 
2013-06-06 03:41:47 PM

Rincewind53: However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.


However, I don't get to vote for the people who run Verizon.
 
2013-06-06 03:52:31 PM
There's a reason you use cash to buy embarrassing stuff and pay for alcohol and cigarettes.

If you look at my credit card purchases... Groceries consisting of mostly veggies and meat that doesn't reflect my fast food purchases. Hundreds of dollars a week spent on books from Half Price Books (although detailed inspection will show I'm buying for resale). A large tank of gasoline less than three times a month.

I'm not an easy person to market at. I wear a XXLT shirt, and I keep having to shout that 3xl is not an equivalent. I know too many marketing tricks to be easily swayed, although if you roll a 20% coupon my way I might look into things. If I see a scam or dubious marketing practice I'll follow along until I figure out how the scam is done, so that might skew my Google results. I seriously don't know if all marketing is a scam or there's a lotta suckers in the world.

/Nothing with a marketing campaign is as good as something with an earned reputation.
 
2013-06-06 04:18:39 PM

oryx: Let's compare what each does with the information. Corporations want to sell you stuff. Government wants to arrest you.


Yes, the government would be really happy with even more citizens of the United States in jail.
 
2013-06-06 04:25:12 PM

oryx: Let's compare what each does with the information. Corporations want to sell you stuff. Government wants to arrest you.


They sell that information to the government in bulk
 
2013-06-06 04:31:43 PM

xynix: AngryDragon: The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.

They're trying. Google is fighting tooth and nail to keep the NSA out of it's databases. Eventually they will fail and everyone will then be open to government snooping. The corporations have been fighting the fed on this heavily for the past couple years. The general population is mostly unaware of the fighting going on in Capital Hill as there are much more pressing matters for the average person to be concerned about.

Once those vaults are opened in the name of "national security" we will have lost much more than the Patriot act stole from us. It will happen though.. as the cow-like herd mentality of our republic continues to wonder what's happening next on the Kardashians.

My advice is to keep your nose clean and buy your sex toys and bongs in a brick and mortar place with cash.


Why?  I can understand the Bong reference (drugs still being illegal in most places), and if you are in Texas the sex toy reference (Texas I think still has a limit on the number of concurrent sex toys you may own), but most states are heading for same sex marriage, so it's not like we don't know what is going on there.  Any time someone tries to out me as a pervert I just call them a prude.  And then ask they why they are so interested in my sex life.  And since they're asking, start sharing.  Ask if they hate it too when they get friction burns.  What lube do they use for anal?  Does their wife have screaming orgasms or is she faking it?  Have you had her go at you with a strap-on?  Generally by this time they're so interested in getting away from me they can't speak...  which is what I want - their silence.  There are no prudes in this world that I care to have the good opinion of - they are generally assholes in other ways as well.
 
2013-06-06 04:34:36 PM
There are a few problems with this infographic. For example, it implies that all of the 150 million Americans who CampaignGrid and Precision Network have data on are registered voters, which seems a little bit specious to me. And it doesn't specifiy what data Acxiom had on the 9/11 hijackers; it could have been as little as a name, or as much as a detailed list of their purchasing histories. Apart from that, it's a fascinating read and I'm glad Subby shared it.

The most important takeway is that the conclusion is absolutely correct: There is no way to get out of the database. Other than poisoning the well- like some Farkers upthread have suggested- there isn't much you can do. You can diversify so that all your data isn't in one place- use Ixquick or DuckDuckGo instead of Google to search, for example- but it's all going to somebody's data farm[s] in the end. It's the Faustian bargain you make when you use the internet.
 
2013-06-06 04:40:00 PM

nekom: Get a free copy of your Lexus/Nexus consumer report.  You have no idea how much they have on you.


Doing that now.... although the "known associates" sounds kinda creepy to me. Sounds like I'm in the mob.
 
2013-06-06 04:43:43 PM

Mad_Radhu: The thing about how corporations use data is that for them the individual person isn't very useful, they more like Hari Seldon in that they are primarily concerned in people in AGGREGATE. One specific person watching Honey Boo Boo doesn't matter, while millions in a single demographic watching Honey Boo Boo IS info they want to know.

Hell, even when they do target you more specifically, there is actually an upside in making ads more relevant to you. I, for one, would LOVE to have television ads that were specifically targeted to me so that I could watch live again TV without having to suffer through Cialis ads that make me think of old wrinkly people having sex, or humane society ads with sad songs over montages of pitiful looking animals that make me want to slit my wrists.


This is why I actively avoid advertising like the plague that it is. If a product is worthwhile, then I'm going to seek it out and buy it. If it needs to be "sold" to me, then it probably isn't worth having in the first place. Regardless, I don't do advertising.

/almost never watch tv
//when I do I flip channels or skip the commercials
///use adblock online
////listen to streaming music in the car or to NPR
 
2013-06-06 05:01:43 PM

xynix: AngryDragon: The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.

They're trying. Google is fighting tooth and nail to keep the NSA out of it's databases. Eventually they will fail and everyone will then be open to government snooping. The corporations have been fighting the fed on this heavily for the past couple years. The general population is mostly unaware of the fighting going on in Capital Hill as there are much more pressing matters for the average person to be concerned about.

Once those vaults are opened in the name of "national security" we will have lost much more than the Patriot act stole from us. It will happen though.. as the cow-like herd mentality of our republic continues to wonder what's happening next on the Kardashians.

My advice is to keep your nose clean and buy your sex toys and bongs in a brick and mortar place with cash.


And if you happen to be a teacher, do your students a big favor and drill into their bubbly little heads the reality that This is the end of privacy. There is no longer any privacy in your country and there will be none until the grid winks out and big gov fades away. Then you got other worries, major ones.

Sex / verboten drugs / political irregularities / or whatever other irregular activity you might engage in: it is all resting in the memory bank of some bored, power-hungry authority, and they may use it against you in a court of law at any point in the future.

/ Actually figured this out as an anti-war professor during that all-but-forgotten VN merriment
/ Nagged at students as an Instructor of 'Intercultural Communication' in Jakarta
// RIch spoilt boys&girls just went tee-hee and fiddled with their BBs
 
2013-06-06 05:06:46 PM
Meh, if you haven't figured out who is in control by now, you haven't paid attention.
 
2013-06-06 05:18:55 PM

SpeedyBB: And if you happen to be a teacher, do your students a big favor and drill into their bubbly little heads the reality that This is the end of privacy. There is no longer any privacy in your country and there will be none until the grid winks out and big gov fades away. Then you got other worries, major ones.

Sex / verboten drugs / political irregularities / or whatever other irregular activity you might engage in: it is all resting in the memory bank of some bored, power-hungry authority, and they may use it against you in a court of law at any point in the future.

/ Actually figured this out as an anti-war professor during that all-but-forgotten VN merriment
/ Nagged at students as an Instructor of 'Intercultural Communication' in Jakarta
// RIch spoilt boys&girls just went tee-hee and fiddled with their BBs


There's so much dirt available on everyone these days that it is pretty much mutually assured destruction, though. Plus, with pot legal in two states, and 50 Shades of Gray a bestseller, there's just not a lot of things that are really scandalous anymore outside of kiddie diddling. The newer generations just aren't concerned about privacy because they generally don't see a need to be ashamed about what they have done.
 
2013-06-06 05:19:18 PM

Peki: I remember a survey back in the late 90s, asked "Whom would you trust the most with your private data? 1) The Government. 2) Microsoft. 3) Hackers. 4) Local police."


Still [cr]ackers. For the most part, they just want trophies.
 
2013-06-06 06:31:21 PM

Rincewind53: However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.


[citation needed]
 
2013-06-06 06:32:06 PM

SpeedyBB: xynix: AngryDragon: The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.

They're trying. Google is fighting tooth and nail to keep the NSA out of it's databases. Eventually they will fail and everyone will then be open to government snooping. The corporations have been fighting the fed on this heavily for the past couple years. The general population is mostly unaware of the fighting going on in Capital Hill as there are much more pressing matters for the average person to be concerned about.

Once those vaults are opened in the name of "national security" we will have lost much more than the Patriot act stole from us. It will happen though.. as the cow-like herd mentality of our republic continues to wonder what's happening next on the Kardashians.

My advice is to keep your nose clean and buy your sex toys and bongs in a brick and mortar place with cash.

And if you happen to be a teacher, do your students a big favor and drill into their bubbly little heads the reality that This is the end of privacy. There is no longer any privacy in your country and there will be none until the grid winks out and big gov fades away. Then you got other worries, major ones.

Sex / verboten drugs / political irregularities / or whatever other irregular activity you might engage in: it is all resting in the memory bank of some bored, power-hungry authority, and they may use it against you in a court of law at any point in the future.

/ Actually figured this out as an anti-war professor during that all-but-forgotten VN merriment
/ Nagged at students as an Instructor of 'Intercultural Communication' in Jakarta
// RIch spoilt boys&girls just went tee-hee and fiddled with their BBs


Only if you put that shiat on-line. What needs to be drilled into the little kiddies heads is that you do not put anything into a computer that you would ever regret someone else seeing. Pictures of you taking drugs, farking your boyfriend or girlfriend, speeding, attending a protest etc... should never see the inside of a computer.
 
2013-06-06 06:42:26 PM

Rincewind53: However, big corporations don't have the power to tax, to imprison, or to kill, so what they can actually do with that data is not really as frightening.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure we passed that point a long time ago. There's little that money cannot do.
 
2013-06-06 06:46:38 PM
As awesome as the internet is, and I am an addict, I wonder when the day will come that it all bites us in the ass. Hard.  I'm guessing it'll be in our lifetimes, and I'm an old fark.
 
2013-06-06 06:59:19 PM
The news: It is confirmed that the Government is spying on every American all the time.

Subby: Squirrel!
 
2013-06-06 07:44:02 PM
The only major issue I see is that no matter how sophisticated your data is, its never going to be clean of the reasons why you did X, Y, or Z.

Its my beef with the whole credit agency system.

One person could have claimed bankrupcy because of unforseen circumstances.  Or they were willing to take a risk and open a business that didn't do so well (that's supposed to be a good thing).

Another could have maxed their credit cards out on total BS they didn't need.

None of this data will ever explain the complex human reasons behind said data.  No one can be profiled by pure numbers, life is just way too complicated.

Now, all that being said- a lot of this is just used for targeted advertising.  That's harmless.  But I'd hate to be denied a job or a loan because of a completely unforseen and legitimate credit problem.
 
2013-06-06 08:44:00 PM
Well, duh.

This country has a fetish for privatization.  So much so that we let corporations slide for doing what we'd castigate any government for doing.

If the federal government went and arrested 20 people on drug charges, and threw them in jail without trial, all on the basis of a scribble of a notebook by a doctor who broke doctor-patient confidentiality and sold it to them for money, there would be outrage. Howling in the streets.  There'd be so much pressure that, even if all 20 were hardcore kingpin drug runners, all 20 would walk.

Well, this is what's happening to 20 players in Major League Baseball right now.  But we let it slide, because "the players probably cheated anyway."

And don't give me this bullshiat, "It's their business, they can run it like they want." Because that's what it is. Bullshiat.  What good is the Bill of Rights keeping you from government overreach when it's the private overreach that can destroy your freedom as much, if not more?  I don't care whether you're my President or my Employer; neither should have the power to perform unreasonable searches and seizures, or take my life, liberty, or property without due process (and yes, I would consider my job to be my property), or fire me because I said one bad word against them.  If you're going to restrict the government from infringing on these rights, but not private citizens, you've done nothing.  And if you're going to howl at the ebil gubmint for spying on your phone records, but praise the honest, hard-working, mom-and-pop multinational corporations that have done the exact same thing for decades...you might as well be silent.
 
2013-06-06 09:06:41 PM
Oh, and subby, this just hit the wires...

The National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio, video, photographs, e-mails, documents and connection logs that enable analysts to track a person's movements and contacts over time.

The highly classified program, code-named PRISM, has not been disclosed publicly before. Its establishment in 2007 and six years of exponential growth took place beneath the surface of a roiling debate over the boundaries of surveillance and privacy. Even late last year, when critics of the foreign intelligence statute argued for changes, the only members of Congress who knew about PRISM were bound by oaths of office to hold their tongues.

The technology companies, which participate knowingly in PRISM operations, include most of the dominant global players of Silicon Valley. They are listed on a roster that bears their logos in order of entry into the program: "Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple."

Dropbox , the cloud storage and synchronization service, is described as "coming soon."

Firsthand experience with these systems, and horror at their capabilities, is what drove a career intelligence officer to provide PowerPoint slides about PRISM and supporting materials to The Washington Post in order to expose what he believes to be a gross intrusion on privacy. "They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type," the officer said.


So basically if our corporate masters know it, the Feds know it too.
 
2013-06-06 09:23:15 PM

AngryDragon: The only time it's a problem with a corporation is if they share it with the government.  I can opt out of dealing with a corporation.


But you don't.

/protip: they still collect the data on you anyways
 
2013-06-06 09:29:43 PM
It's never been a convincing argument to me to justify somebody doing horrific things by pointing out somebody else doing them too. Yeah, Freddy may have murdered his wife, but Jim murdered his too, so what are ya gonna do? Pffft. Execute both of them, that's what. And if government and business are both spying on us, tear them both a new one, by which I mean pass laws agin it and start throwing people in prison if they don't stop.
 
2013-06-07 11:13:34 AM

jjorsett: if government and business are both spying on us, tear them both a new one, by which I mean pass laws agin it and start throwing people in prison if they don't stop.


Why do you hate the free market?
 
2013-06-07 06:42:13 PM
Tea tards seem to have no problem with that, even though it's the big corporations that run the government.  Go figure.
 
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