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(Talking Points Memo)   Congress: Don't call it a violation of rights, it's been here for years   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, NSA, Intelligence Committee, telephone tapping, FISA, Dianne Feinstein  
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3234 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jun 2013 at 12:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-06 12:23:33 PM  
Feinstein, you're an asshole.
 
2013-06-06 12:31:36 PM  
Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.
 
2013-06-06 12:32:36 PM  

Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.


Well, sort of. I'm not sure I'd call collecting metadata "spying". This is one of those things I can't say really bothers me, I just think Feinstein's answer was horrid.
 
2013-06-06 12:33:34 PM  
"It's called protecting America."

Everything else aside, I don't think she could have used a douchier phrase to explain this. I imagine she tilted her head and pursed her lips afterwards.
 
2013-06-06 12:38:47 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.

Well, sort of. I'm not sure I'd call collecting metadata "spying". This is one of those things I can't say really bothers me, I just think Feinstein's answer was horrid.


Even though I disagree with her point that this is okay, she could have made a more convincing argument than that.
 
2013-06-06 12:40:17 PM  

Nabb1: DamnYankees: Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.

Well, sort of. I'm not sure I'd call collecting metadata "spying". This is one of those things I can't say really bothers me, I just think Feinstein's answer was horrid.

Even though I disagree with her point that this is okay, she could have made a more convincing argument than that.


It'd be difficult to make a less convincing one.
 
2013-06-06 12:46:39 PM  
THIS JUST IN: Politicians care for power not ideology
 
2013-06-06 12:54:32 PM  
Ah, yes, both D and R are in agreement: How you know you're really getting farked.
 
2013-06-06 12:55:36 PM  
I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.
 
2013-06-06 12:56:05 PM  
talkingpointsmemo.com
I was distracted to learn Steven Seagal's starring in a re-boot of "The Big Lebowski."
 
2013-06-06 12:56:56 PM  
Feinstein would not be able to run for office, let alone vote, if lawmakers actually adopted her stance in the past.

Let's hope nobody follows her example in the future.
 
2013-06-06 12:56:59 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.


Yes, but Bush was a liberal and furthermore
 
2013-06-06 12:57:10 PM  
"It's called protecting America."

It's called killing the republic in order to save it.
 
2013-06-06 12:57:13 PM  
To all those people who called me a traitor, and a terrorist sympathizer, and implied I was criminal with something to hide when I vociferously and vocally opposed the PATRIOT ACT and called repeatedly for its repeal, saying it was going to cause a massive erosion of civil rights and government intrusion into our privacy, I have just one question:

Can You hear me Now?
 
2013-06-06 12:58:34 PM  

Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.


What annoys me is that people were unaware of this. How could you not know this existed even during (hell before) GWB? Half the reason the PATRIOT Act was as scary as it was is because the authorities already could gather ridic amounts of data on you; frankly they didn't need for further authority etc. to do so.
 
2013-06-06 12:59:02 PM  
You know the KGB and the SS both used the same excuse to spy on their people... just sayin'.
 
2013-06-06 12:59:12 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.


We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.
 
2013-06-06 01:02:09 PM  
speaking of LL Cool J....

Next time you see him on TV, count how often he licks his lips.  did he just eat pussy or what?  dude will not stop licking his damn lips.

"*licks lips*  Welcome back, yo yo yo, that was *licks lips* Taylor Swift!  'sup girl? *licks lips* aaaaight next, we got *licks lips*  Mumford and Sons with special guest *licks lips*  Jimmy Page, yo, y'all aint' gonna wanna miss dis! *licks lips* but first, *licks lips*  a very special tribute to those who *licks lips*  passed on in 2013. *licks lips* bow ya heads. *licks lips* "
 
2013-06-06 01:02:10 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.

What annoys me is that people were unaware of this. How could you not know this existed even during (hell before) GWB? Half the reason the PATRIOT Act was as scary as it was is because the authorities already could gather ridic amounts of data on you; frankly they didn't need for further authority etc. to do so.


Truth be told, they could probably do this even without the PATRIOT act, but after that got passed (and extended) it was almost a certainty that they were going to do it. So I can only be disappointed in Obama for finding out that it is going on under his watch, and not angry, because we all knew (or at least should have) that the government was given the authority to do it.
 
2013-06-06 01:02:13 PM  
Of course it's not breaking the rules. Those that make the rules always protect themselves. So technically she's right. The best kind of right.
Fark everyone of them that wipes their ass with the 4th amendment.
 
2013-06-06 01:02:39 PM  
The government has been legally 'spying' on its citizens using whatever methods are available for decades. Whining about it now just means you weren't paying attention. And nobody who has the inclination and/or guts to give up that power has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected, let alone passing that through Congress.

It sucks, but that's the way it is..
 
2013-06-06 01:02:57 PM  
Yeah I don't get it. I read the headline and went "I though everyone had already know this was happening".

A) They are not listening in on calls
B) What they are doing is seeing who is making lots of call to suspected terrorist.

C) I am not saying it's right or wrong so please don't respond with the "OMG YOUR A NAZI" just because I am trying to actually discuss the facts instead of made up bullshiat.
 
2013-06-06 01:03:25 PM  

super_grass: cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.

We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.


Yes, but the Right only hates the Left for doing it now.
 
2013-06-06 01:04:15 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.


Wow, some intellectual honesty from Malkin.  That IS surprising.  In fairness, she's got a huge website full of articles praising this kind of surveillance.  She was one of the foremost defenders of the program  If she tried to make partisan hay out of this, all you'd have to do is use the search bar on her site.  She's defending it by saying that "it's dfferent".  Well, that settles it.
 
2013-06-06 01:05:09 PM  
"It has proved meritorious because we have gathered significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years," Chambliss said.

Wow.  That's a pretty impressive batting average, there.  Of all the records they looked at, every last one of them turned out to be a "bad guy".  Not a single law-abiding person had their telecom activity examined.

That's some mighty fine police work there, Lou!
 
2013-06-06 01:05:14 PM  

LordJiro: The government has been legally 'spying' on its citizens using whatever methods are available for decades. Whining about it now just means you weren't paying attention. And nobody who has the inclination and/or guts to give up that power has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected, let alone passing that through Congress.

It sucks, but that's the way it is..


upload.wikimedia.org
The status quo
We should keep it, right?
 
2013-06-06 01:05:34 PM  
"And it's to ferret this out before it happens," she said. "It's called protecting America."

rack.0.mshcdn.com
go fark yourself. You can't prevent terrorism. You can react to it appropriately, but you can't stop it.

And spying on everyone isn't going to make that any better.
 
2013-06-06 01:06:20 PM  
So glad that the libbiest Senator that ever libbed a lib sounds like she's channeling Dick Cheney. Makes me feel safer knowing that the Senate has my back.
 
2013-06-06 01:06:44 PM  
Isn't that cute. Republicans suddenly understand what the patriot act has been used for all along.
 
2013-06-06 01:08:10 PM  

robbiex0r: super_grass: cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.

We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.

Yes, but the Right only hates the Left for doing it now.


nope
Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe G. Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John J. Duncan Jr. (Tenn.), Michael G. Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Christopher P. Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.) Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Timothy V. Johnson (Ill.), Walter B. Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul R. Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Tex.), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Tex.), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Robert Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), Don Young (Alaska).

Some of them hated it then. The patriot act I mean.
 
2013-06-06 01:08:39 PM  
So.... at what point does it become spying?  When they use it for something?  How would I even know?

It's disturbing because of the potential for abuse.  Not hard to connect a name to a number.  Knowing who we are talking to, how often, for how long, and LOCATION data - that is nuts.

Don't you "metadata" me.  This isn't aggregate, unidentifiable stuff here.  Most of the identifying info can probably be googled.
 
2013-06-06 01:08:55 PM  

THX 1138: "It has proved meritorious because we have gathered significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years," Chambliss said.

Wow.  That's a pretty impressive batting average, there.  Of all the records they looked at, every last one of them turned out to be a "bad guy".  Not a single law-abiding person had their telecom activity examined.

That's some mighty fine police work there, Lou!


It's hard to think of a phrase I hate more than "bad guy."  Any time someone uses it, you can tell they've completely checked out of reality and are starring in an action movie in their head.
 
2013-06-06 01:09:13 PM  
"It has proved meritorious because we have gathered significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years," Chambliss said.

The problem isn't that you're spying on "bad guys" it's that your definition of "bad guys" has historically been pretty open to interpretation and abuse.
 
2013-06-06 01:10:05 PM  

studs up: robbiex0r: super_grass: cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.

We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.

Yes, but the Right only hates the Left for doing it now.

nope
Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe G. Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John J. Duncan Jr. (Tenn.), Michael G. Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Christopher P. Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.) Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Timothy V. Johnson (Ill.), Walter B. Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul R. Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Tex.), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Tex.), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Robert Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), Don Young (Alaska).

Some of them hated it then. The patriot act I mean.


What is that a list of?
 
2013-06-06 01:11:26 PM  
I am surprised that fewer are praising this show of bipartisian support for President Obama's administration.
 
2013-06-06 01:11:30 PM  

LordJiro: The government has been legally 'spying' on its citizens using whatever methods are available for decades. Whining about it now just means you weren't paying attention. And nobody who has the inclination and/or guts to give up that power has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected, let alone passing that through Congress.

It sucks, but that's the way it is..


In previous decades that spying generated congressional hearings and laws to protect privacy and limit the scope of intelligence that could be gathered.

Now that a Democrat is overseeing it, we all should simply be resigned to our fate.  Fortunately, this country has a history of doing precisely not that.
 
2013-06-06 01:12:15 PM  

Nabb1: Call it what you want, but the bottom line is they are spying on every one of us.

 Unfortunately most Americans (hell, humans) can't react rationally to risk. So, we have to give up our rights to be safe (from terruh, which kills fewer Americans than bathtubs over time.)
 
2013-06-06 01:12:32 PM  

Corvus: Yeah I don't get it. I read the headline and went "I though everyone had already know this was happening".

A) They are not listening in on calls
B) What they are doing is seeing who is making lots of call to suspected terrorist.

C) I am not saying it's right or wrong so please don't respond with the "OMG YOUR A NAZI" just because I am trying to actually discuss the facts instead of made up bullshiat.


Right, we get this.

But what's a "suspected terrorist"?  Because this country has a pretty shiatty record of rights violations when someone get's to decide what offends them.
 
2013-06-06 01:13:00 PM  
Nazi c**t.
 
2013-06-06 01:14:19 PM  

Stoj: So.... at what point does it become spying?  When they use it for something?  How would I even know?

It's disturbing because of the potential for abuse.  Not hard to connect a name to a number.  Knowing who we are talking to, how often, for how long, and LOCATION data - that is nuts.

Don't you "metadata" me.  This isn't aggregate, unidentifiable stuff here.  Most of the identifying info can probably be googled.


And not only that, this is just one type of surveillance.  It's both hilarious and troubling to see so many speaking as if this is the totality of the information being collected.  It's not. It's just what's known.
 
2013-06-06 01:14:29 PM  

Car_Ramrod: studs up: robbiex0r: super_grass: cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.

We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.

Yes, but the Right only hates the Left for doing it now.

nope
Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe G. Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John J. Duncan Jr. (Tenn.), Michael G. Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Christopher P. Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.) Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Timothy V. Johnson (Ill.), Walter B. Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul R. Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Tex.), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Tex.), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Robert Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), Don Young (Alaska).

Some of them hated it then. The patriot act I mean.

What is that a list of?


Voted against Patriot Act.
 
2013-06-06 01:16:57 PM  
And people wonder why I'm not in a rush to get my cellphone back. . .

/seriously, being a Luddite has its advantages, aside from being far cheaper
 
2013-06-06 01:17:37 PM  

scarmig: Nazi c**t.


Bitte, weiter...
 
2013-06-06 01:17:47 PM  

studs up: LordJiro: The government has been legally 'spying' on its citizens using whatever methods are available for decades. Whining about it now just means you weren't paying attention. And nobody who has the inclination and/or guts to give up that power has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected, let alone passing that through Congress.

It sucks, but that's the way it is..

[upload.wikimedia.org image 322x323]
The status quo
We should keep it, right?


Did I say that? No. I said that anybody who has the inclination/guts to change the status quo has no chance in Hell of actually getting in a position to do so. And this is an issue that, I fear, too many people are apathetic about; they won't provide enough pressure (in the form of protests, recall votes, or even just voting the assholes out) to change it. Hell, even revolution is more or less pointless, since the government, as has been established, can easily know where you are, who you talked to, where you talked to them *from*, and, if they chose, what you said. And they have drones that can turn you into vapor before you even see them.

Really, the ONLY option is to work to increase the pressure over time, and force the authoritarians out. And that will take decades at least.
 
2013-06-06 01:18:00 PM  
Another fun facet of this is when Obama killed bin Laden, conservatives insisted it was all due to Bush era programs.

Now they never liked these programs, Bush was totally a lib, and Obama is a do-nothing empty suit that is also a fascist totalitarian dictator.
 
2013-06-06 01:19:38 PM  

Peki: And people wonder why I'm not in a rush to get my cellphone back. . .

/seriously, being a Luddite has its advantages, aside from being far cheaper


Right because the NSA is not monitoring land lines in the same fashion.
 
2013-06-06 01:22:47 PM  

LordJiro: studs up: LordJiro: The government has been legally 'spying' on its citizens using whatever methods are available for decades. Whining about it now just means you weren't paying attention. And nobody who has the inclination and/or guts to give up that power has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting elected, let alone passing that through Congress.

It sucks, but that's the way it is..

[upload.wikimedia.org image 322x323]
The status quo
We should keep it, right?

Did I say that? No. I said that anybody who has the inclination/guts to change the status quo has no chance in Hell of actually getting in a position to do so. And this is an issue that, I fear, too many people are apathetic about; they won't provide enough pressure (in the form of protests, recall votes, or even just voting the assholes out) to change it. Hell, even revolution is more or less pointless, since the government, as has been established, can easily know where you are, who you talked to, where you talked to them *from*, and, if they chose, what you said. And they have drones that can turn you into vapor before you even see them.

Really, the ONLY option is to work to increase the pressure over time, and force the authoritarians out. And that will take decades at least.


That's exactly what you said. Yoga like sophistry to avoid that is just ridiculous.
 
2013-06-06 01:22:51 PM  

Stoj: So.... at what point does it become spying?  When they use it for something?  How would I even know?

It's disturbing because of the potential for abuse.  Not hard to connect a name to a number.  Knowing who we are talking to, how often, for how long, and LOCATION data - that is nuts.

Don't you "metadata" me.  This isn't aggregate, unidentifiable stuff here.  Most of the identifying info can probably be googled.


Precisely. Imagine this scenario:

"Wow the Washington Post has a major story on the front page about something secret and illegal we did, we need to find out who talked.  Okay these 25 analysts all had access to that information and oh look at this, examing the "metadata" from thier cell phones show us that Mr. Green made a call at 11:28 to his wife at 1:32 pm which can be cell tower triangulated to Farragut Park in DC.   And when we examine the reporter's cell data, we find she made a call to her editor ffrom the proximity of Farragut park at 1:34Pm..."
 
2013-06-06 01:24:01 PM  
This is so 1930's Germany ""I think people want the homeland kept safe to the extent we can," she said. "  The extent we can eh?  Like using the Constitution as toilet paper? I guess that's one way to stay "safe".
There is nothing from stopping them from abusing this other than their word that they wont.

fark you Diane Buttlicker Margret Thatcher Feinstein. The Dragon Lady with no farking heart.
/obscure
 
2013-06-06 01:24:37 PM  

studs up: Car_Ramrod: studs up: robbiex0r: super_grass: cameroncrazy1984: I'm about to blow all of your minds:


Michelle Malkin  @michellemalkin
Some on the Right are going to feel stupid when they find out Bush&GOP passed laws granting telecoms immunity on counterterror cooperation.

We hate the right for doing this too. Mentioning this doesn't absolve the Dems in any way.

Yes, but the Right only hates the Left for doing it now.

nope
Justin Amash (Mich.), Roscoe G. Bartlett (Md.), Rob Bishop (Utah), Paul Broun (Ga.), John Campbell (Calif.), John J. Duncan Jr. (Tenn.), Michael G. Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Christopher P. Gibson (N.Y.), Tom Graves (Ga.) Dean Heller (Nev.), Randy Hultgren (Ill.), Timothy V. Johnson (Ill.), Walter B. Jones (N.C.), Jack Kingston (Ga.), Raul R. Labrador (Idaho), Connie Mack (Fla.), Kenny Marchant (Tex.), Tom McClintock (Calif.), Ron Paul (Tex.), Denny Rehberg (Mont.), Phil Roe (Tenn.), Dana Rohrabacher (Calif.), Robert Schilling (Ill.), David Schweikert (Ariz.), Rob Woodall (Ga.), Don Young (Alaska).

Some of them hated it then. The patriot act I mean.

What is that a list of?

Voted against Patriot Act.


The original Patriot Act? When it was passed 357-66, with 63 of those nays being Dems?

Or the first reauthorization in 2005? When it was passed 251-174, with 155 of those nays being Dems?

Or the second reauthorization in 2006? When it was passed 280-138, with 124 of those nays being Dems?

I'm not saying the Democrats are blameless in this clusterfark, but to say "Oh yea, the right was against it too" when a tiny minority of them voted against it is pure re-branding.
 
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