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(NBC News)   "I can still see those pixellated explosions in my mind, the thermal images of blood. I awake to the echo of the silent explosions, the answering creak of my armchair as I reach for my Mountain Dew. But it's empty." A drone pilot speaks of his PTSD   (openchannel.nbcnews.com) divider line 170
    More: Sad, Richard Engel, exsanguination, Mountain Dew, NBC News, Taliban insurgents  
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5318 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jun 2013 at 8:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-06 08:57:45 AM
Yeah I wake up with nightmares after a session of Call of Duty or Team Fortess 2. All those poor pixels I destroyed.

I support the military, but gimme a farkin break.
 
2013-06-06 08:58:09 AM
img.youtube.com

http://img.youtube.com/vi/yr5cjyokVUs/0.jpg
 
2013-06-06 08:58:12 AM
Boy, they're really taking the "chair force" nickname to its ultimate conclusion.
 
2013-06-06 08:58:29 AM
Actually I think the cold removed nature of a drone strike could actually be harsher.....you target an enemy but only later find out that thanks to its 100 yard kill radius that yes you did take out your target....but a gaggle of school kids were in the building next door so they died too.

I imagine that could fark a person up
 
2013-06-06 08:58:37 AM
Hey, when I signed up for the Armed Forces nobody told me I might have to (*gulp*) kill people...
 
2013-06-06 09:00:12 AM
Clearly, he shouldn't have rolled PvP
 
2013-06-06 09:00:30 AM
Well at least he's a 'former' operator; means he left and isn't trying to slow the machine down from the inside.
 
2013-06-06 09:01:08 AM
"So what if you killed 1,600+ people?  Man up!"

For the love of god, don't click on the comments.
 
2013-06-06 09:02:47 AM
Anyone who signed up after the initial drumbeat to enter Iraq is a fool or a dupe. At least this guy got to do what he signed up for from within the safety and comfort of a flight simulator room and not at risk of getting blown to bits in some country we didn't have any business invading.
 
2013-06-06 09:03:55 AM

TeDDD: "So what if you killed 1,600+ people?  Man up!"

For the love of god, don't click on the comments.


Seems like Fark is on the way to replicate them... gj Fark.
 
2013-06-06 09:03:57 AM
So did he land the drone and tea bag the pixilated corpses with it?

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
2013-06-06 09:04:35 AM
It's bullshiat like this that denigrates the rest of us who have actually done things.
sigh
but this is the new citizenry, the new military, the new voter
so far from what we were
 
2013-06-06 09:06:57 AM
He should probably avoid Mt. Dew
 
2013-06-06 09:08:33 AM
Making life and death decisions will fark with anyones mind. But, lets just make fun of mental illnesses, that will work out great. Bunch of idiotic morons in here who have never killed.
 
2013-06-06 09:08:42 AM
The movie 'Toys' has become quite prophetic. If you never saw that movie (you're better off) the plot involves using a toy company to build drones, but they would be piloted by children, not adults in the military. The kids would just treat it like a video game, not realizing they were killing real people. Robin Williams becomes RAND PAUL by giving a pep talk to a group of toys before leading them into battle.

Most of the movie does not hold up, but the drone plotline is just spooky.
 
2013-06-06 09:09:12 AM
flavorwire.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-06 09:11:35 AM

Lost Thought 00: Making life and death decisions will fark with anyones mind. But, lets just make fun of mental illnesses, that will work out great. Bunch of idiotic morons in here who have never killed.


He wasn't.

Nto to get into a "nurenburg" debate but he wasn't making the calls on who to target and when.
 
2013-06-06 09:12:00 AM

MaliFinn: Clearly, they shouldn't have rolled PvP


FTFY
 
2013-06-06 09:13:16 AM

soporific: The movie 'Toys' has become quite prophetic. If you never saw that movie (you're better off) the plot involves using a toy company to build drones, but they would be piloted by children, not adults in the military. The kids would just treat it like a video game, not realizing they were killing real people. Robin Williams becomes RAND PAUL by giving a pep talk to a group of toys before leading them into battle.

Most of the movie does not hold up, but the drone plotline is just spooky.


Sounds like it copied Ender's Game.

And an episode of Star Trek.
 
2013-06-06 09:14:54 AM
"I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.
 
2013-06-06 09:17:51 AM

paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.


My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident. It's why I've been loath to call my own symptoms PTSD although except for the life-threatening part they all seem to fit.
 
2013-06-06 09:18:09 AM

paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.


So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?
 
2013-06-06 09:19:45 AM
Self-loathing defines American culture.
 
2013-06-06 09:19:54 AM
Judging from some of the comments in here, having guilt issues over killing people is not something one should have, unless it's done up close and personal.

And you wonder why politicians don't give a fark about the deaths they inflict...
 
2013-06-06 09:21:02 AM

ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?


No, I wouldn't.  Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home.  Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.
 
2013-06-06 09:21:32 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident. It's why I've been loath to call my own symptoms PTSD although except for the life-threatening part they all seem to fit.



Dude, honest post from the intertubes; get that checked out... twice if you have to.  You must hang in for the Long Run.
 
2013-06-06 09:21:52 AM

paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.


I remember a season one episode of Rescue Me where one of the firefighters went to a 9/11 support group. Everyone else at the meeting wasn't even near the attacks, their trauma came from watching it. Meanwhile, the firefighter was actually there.

However, in a world where we get just as attached to digital goods as we do to real-world goods, I can see more and more cases of virtual PTSD.
 
2013-06-06 09:22:36 AM
I remember a time when this country had a set of balls. Man up Nancies.
 
2013-06-06 09:23:39 AM

Two16: AverageAmericanGuy: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident. It's why I've been loath to call my own symptoms PTSD although except for the life-threatening part they all seem to fit.


Dude, honest post from the intertubes; get that checked out... twice if you have to.  You must hang in for the Long Run.


I'll be okay. Time wears on and memories fade away. The paranoia is the worst part, but I'm only in Japan another 5 years. After that, home free.
 
2013-06-06 09:23:59 AM
ongbok:
So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

I agree with you but B-12 is a vitamin, B-2 is a bomber.

/If I gave you a magic button that would kill a random person if you pressed it but you would have to watch them die, would you do it? How would that make you feel?
 
2013-06-06 09:25:05 AM

paulkrud: No, I wouldn't. Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home. Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.


Actually given that they had access to intelligence reports about said strikes, like I said finding out that those while you might have gotten your guy but the thermobaric warhead on that missile also eviscerated 20 kids next door to your target  could seriously fark with someones head.

Killing is killing, whether its with a knife eye to eye or from several miles up with a remote detonated charge.
 
2013-06-06 09:25:08 AM

ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?


"hurr durr I'm a half-ass astronaut nobody can shoot me all the way up here, whee! *click-click-click*"

/I keed
 
2013-06-06 09:25:15 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Two16: AverageAmericanGuy: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident. It's why I've been loath to call my own symptoms PTSD although except for the life-threatening part they all seem to fit.


Dude, honest post from the intertubes; get that checked out... twice if you have to.  You must hang in for the Long Run.

I'll be okay. Time wears on and memories fade away. The paranoia is the worst part, but I'm only in Japan another 5 years. After that, home free.


And thanks.
 
2013-06-06 09:25:27 AM

paulkrud: ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

No, I wouldn't.  Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home.  Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.


So you don't think a drone operator would have mental issues stemming from guilt due to killing 1600 people? They shouldn't have any issues because they were in an office building?
 
2013-06-06 09:25:29 AM
I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like tears... in... rain. Time... to die...

/seems apropos
// Man up nancy
 
2013-06-06 09:25:30 AM

soporific: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

I remember a season one episode of Rescue Me where one of the firefighters went to a 9/11 support group. Everyone else at the meeting wasn't even near the attacks, their trauma came from watching it. Meanwhile, the firefighter was actually there.

However, in a world where we get just as attached to digital goods as we do to real-world goods, I can see more and more cases of virtual PTSD.


I get what you're saying and understand that people get PTSD from all sorts of incidents.  But as someone who's fought in Iraq, seeing dicks like this guy complain about PTSD strikes a nerve.
 
2013-06-06 09:28:18 AM

Voiceofreason01: ongbok:
So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

I agree with you but B-12 is a vitamin, B-2 is a bomber.

/If I gave you a magic button that would kill a random person if you pressed it but you would have to watch them die, would you do it? How would that make you feel?


Damn, didn't even realize that I did that until you pointed it out. Maybe I need to take a B-12.
 
2013-06-06 09:28:25 AM

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: I remember a time when this country had a set of balls. Man up Nancies.


Damned strait! Back in my day men were men and would just keep those feeling bottled up until they'd explode by beating their wives and children or drinking themselves to death. The way nature intended.
 
2013-06-06 09:28:29 AM

paulkrud: ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

No, I wouldn't.  Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home.  Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.



Isn't the effect based BOTH on the level/volume of trauma experienced AND the individual person's innate or aquired ability to cope with said trauma?

I've seen the same amount of death, gore and suffering that a lot of my coworkers have, and some are just hardwired differently such that they have a harder time coping with what they see and experience.  The response to it can vary greatly person to person and even within the same person over time/experience.  Don't be so quick to judge.
 
ows
2013-06-06 09:29:47 AM
if he just made some pew pew sounds when shooting he'd be ok.

/and it takes just a second to snap your fingers for a mountain dew replenishing.
 
2013-06-06 09:30:52 AM

lewismarktwo: http://img.youtube.com/vi/yr5cjyokVUs/0.jpg


I love you.
 
2013-06-06 09:31:04 AM

ongbok: So you don't think a drone operator would have mental issues stemming from guilt due to killing 1600 people?


he never said he "killed" that number.  he was involved with missions.  That could include all the missions where he was providing surveilance.

ongbok: They shouldn't have any issues because they were in an office building?


they may have "issues" but I am not going to put it in the same league as people who actually risked their life.
 
2013-06-06 09:31:54 AM
I never thought I'd see Fark have so many stupid and ignorant comments. The guy helped kill 1600 people. Most people would feel sick just killing one. Welcome to Fark my ass, this is a new low.
 
2013-06-06 09:32:06 AM
I don't have a source for this, but I remember reading an article that talked about one of the components of PTSD being a sense of having done things that are moral in one context and immoral in another. People describe feelings of detachment and dissociation because of it. Is it possible that combat PTSD and non-combat PTSD can have similar symptoms and share some similar causes but not be exactly the same thing? I think that this component could definitely be present for a drone pilot, maybe even more than infantry, since a soldier who kills to protect himself or his friends would have a stronger moral justification. Maybe PTSD diagnoses need some sub-categories to fully describe the causes and symptoms, but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that a drone operator could some sort of psychological trauma from doing his job.
 
2013-06-06 09:32:07 AM

ongbok: paulkrud: ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

No, I wouldn't.  Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home.  Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.

So you don't think a drone operator would have mental issues stemming from guilt due to killing 1600 people? They shouldn't have any issues because they were in an office building?


It's war.  People die, and it sucks.  But he signed up for it.  It's much different being an armchair warrior than it is to be someone on the ground, facing danger, and seeing friends injured/dead.  Everyone I know with PTSD struggles with that, not with the killing.
 
2013-06-06 09:34:57 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident.


This is incorrect. PTSD involves any overwhelming negative emotional response (fear or disgust, for example) due to a traumatic stressor and generally involves violence to oneself or another. The only criteria is ongoing reexperiencing of the traumatic stressor (not necessarily flashback or nightmare, the emotional response is enough) to the point of impeding day to day living. If you think you might have PTSD, get some assistance. Part of the reason PTSD is so pervasive and continues untreated is the comparison with the diagnosed about others have worse experiences and therefore having no right to complain, seek help themselves. This is bad enough when you do this to yourself, but others should not be making similar comments to drive folks away from seeking treatment.
 
2013-06-06 09:36:32 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

My understanding was that PTSD could only be diagnosed as such if the patient had been involved in an extreme life-threatening incident. It's why I've been loath to call my own symptoms PTSD although except for the life-threatening part they all seem to fit.


Could be a panic disorder. You should go see someone.

/PTSD, life-threatening situations for long periods of time, non-military, in treatment.
 
2013-06-06 09:37:48 AM

paulkrud: ongbok: paulkrud: ongbok: paulkrud: "I can still see every pixel"

Shut the fark up.  Come talk to me when you had boots on the ground and were ACTUALLY taking fire.  Then you can come complain about PTSD.

So would you say the same thing to a B-12 pilot who flew bombing missions and was having PTSD?

No, I wouldn't.  Those dudes flew through flak invested skies and had a very, very high chance of not coming home.  Some coont sitting in a chair in Nevada can't claim the same level of trauma.

So you don't think a drone operator would have mental issues stemming from guilt due to killing 1600 people? They shouldn't have any issues because they were in an office building?

It's war.  People die, and it sucks.  But he signed up for it.  It's much different being an armchair warrior than it is to be someone on the ground, facing danger, and seeing friends injured/dead.  Everyone I know with PTSD struggles with that, not with the killing.


And the people that I know who served and suffer with PTSD suffer from both, the danger they and their friends were under, seeing their friends killed, and guilt from having to kill people. Most normal people to have guilt issues after having to kill another person. It is one of the reasons why a lot of police departments send officers to mandatory therapy if they have to kill somebody.
 
2013-06-06 09:39:08 AM
paulkrud:
It's war.  People die, and it sucks.  But he signed up for it.  It's much different being an armchair warrior than it is to be someone on the ground, facing danger, and seeing friends injured/dead.  Everyone I know with PTSD struggles with that, not with the killing.

How often does a marine on the ground have time to just sit and watch an enemy combatant die? I can see how watching a person bleed out through a high resolution camera because you just detonated a missile right next to them because you have to asses the damage caused by your strike could affect a person more than squeezing a trigger at a person sized target 300 yards away and seeing them fall down.
 
2013-06-06 09:40:00 AM

MrCheeks: [flavorwire.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


He deserves a big hand for his service.
 
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