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(New York Magazine)   Immigration reform is in serious danger in the House, as the GOP is now demanding that anyone made a citizen under the new law not be allowed to participate in Obamacare. Why? Because fark Obama, that's why   (nymag.com) divider line 93
    More: Fail, GOP, obamacare, immigration reform, illegal immigration, House Republicans, risks  
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1366 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jun 2013 at 5:15 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-05 02:51:16 PM
I'm pretty sure this is not constitutional. IIRC, distinctions between different types of citizens is subject to strict scrutiny, and this would never survive that.
 
2013-06-05 02:58:19 PM
Conditional citizenship?  Separate but equal?  Yeah, that's legit.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-05 02:59:50 PM
I think they are trying to deny it to resident aliens.
 
2013-06-05 03:01:12 PM

vpb: I think they are trying to deny it to resident aliens.


1) Would resident aliens have access to it now?

2) I think the same thing applies. You still can't make those kind of distinctions for no good reason. If resident aliens have access to Medicare and Medicaid, for example, what's the reason for not having access to this?
 
2013-06-05 03:01:55 PM
So they want to create two classes of citizens? I thought the Republicans, being the experts on Constitutional law, would realize that is something specifically forbidden.
 
2013-06-05 03:07:34 PM
That would be the goddamn stupidest idea ever, if not for the fact that it is actually MEANT to be destructive.

/hint -- insurance pools are better when they're bigger.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-05 03:14:29 PM

DamnYankees: vpb: I think they are trying to deny it to resident aliens.

1) Would resident aliens have access to it now?

2) I think the same thing applies. You still can't make those kind of distinctions for no good reason. If resident aliens have access to Medicare and Medicaid, for example, what's the reason for not having access to this?


1) I don't know.

2) They might be able to.  Resident Aliens aren't eligible to vote for instance.
 
2013-06-05 03:15:49 PM

vpb: 2) They might be able to.  Resident Aliens aren't eligible to vote for instance.


Yes, because voting has been determined to pass strict scrutiny, meaning there's a compelling government interest, the law is narrowly tailored and  it is implemented in the least restrictive means.

Can anyone actually argue this would qualify?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-05 03:37:02 PM

DamnYankees: vpb: 2) They might be able to.  Resident Aliens aren't eligible to vote for instance.

Yes, because voting has been determined to pass strict scrutiny, meaning there's a compelling government interest, the law is narrowly tailored and  it is implemented in the least restrictive means.

Can anyone actually argue this would qualify?


There is no Constitutional right to Obamacare, even for US citizens, so I think it would fall under a rational basis review.

Even if there were, they could just say that it would cost too much because immigrants are usually poor.  I doubt a court would strike it down.

Several states don't allow drivers licenses for aliens without legal status, even the ones covered under the deferred action policy.
 
2013-06-05 03:45:59 PM

DamnYankees: vpb: 2) They might be able to.  Resident Aliens aren't eligible to vote for instance.

Yes, because voting has been determined to pass strict scrutiny, meaning there's a compelling government interest, the law is narrowly tailored and  it is implemented in the least restrictive means.

Can anyone actually argue this would qualify?


Now now sir you can't come bowling in here with an actual understanding of terms like compelling interest and strict scrutiny it's just not cricket. You're supposed to make declarative statements like "you cannot infringe a constitutional right" or some such shiat.

Check yourself.
 
2013-06-05 03:50:34 PM
I am in favor of the GOP plan because I like paying higher taxes and insurance premiums to cover uninsured people.
 
2013-06-05 03:50:34 PM
Not only should they not have access to Obamacare, they should go to separate schools and eat at separate restaurants.
 
2013-06-05 03:52:58 PM

DamnYankees: vpb: 2) They might be able to.  Resident Aliens aren't eligible to vote for instance.

Yes, because voting has been determined to pass strict scrutiny, meaning there's a compelling government interest, the law is narrowly tailored and  it is implemented in the least restrictive means.


Not really an equal protection issue vis-a-vis noncitizens.  Voting rights are generally determined under the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment, which applies only to citizens, while more general rights are controlled by the equal protection clause, which isn't limited to citizens.  Not to mention that voting rights are specifically mentioned in another amendment to the Constitution (the 26th), and limited to citizens:

The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.
 
2013-06-05 03:55:06 PM
Don't forget that many of these same people call themselves Christians.
 
2013-06-05 03:57:32 PM
Cyberluddite:
The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.

Isn't that why they're trying to help these people become citizens? Also, so more people are around for Republicans to bash for more reasons?
 
2013-06-05 03:59:41 PM

vernonFL: Not only should they not have access to Obamacare, they should go to separate schools and eat at separate restaurants.


Look I feel that way about Republicans too but it turns out its completely illegal. Even if we put them in camps.
 
2013-06-05 04:07:11 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: I am in favor of the GOP plan because I like paying higher taxes and insurance premiums to cover uninsured people.


I'm a fan of wasted economic productivity as people miss out on work because they wait for something to become a very serious issue instead of treating it while it's minor, myself.
 
2013-06-05 04:09:27 PM

Aarontology: AdolfOliverPanties: I am in favor of the GOP plan because I like paying higher taxes and insurance premiums to cover uninsured people.

I'm a fan of wasted economic productivity as people miss out on work because they wait for something to become a very serious issue instead of treating it while it's minor, myself.


Do you not all see the simple beauty in paying $400 for an advil?
 
2013-06-05 04:11:42 PM

Its a good thing they voted against the assault weapons ban.

Now they can shoot themselves in the foot with an AK-47 instead of a handgun.

 
2013-06-05 04:12:25 PM
Wait untii they find out that the dishwasher, the cook, the busboy and the bathroom attendant in their favorite fancy DC restaurant all have untreated diseases.
 
2013-06-05 04:13:26 PM

Tigger: vernonFL: Not only should they not have access to Obamacare, they should go to separate schools and eat at separate restaurants.

Look I feel that way about Republicans too but it turns out its completely illegal. Even if we put them in camps.


The camps are still on though, right?
 
2013-06-05 04:14:25 PM
so it's cool if they roof our houses and pick our lettuce... but they can't have health coverage.

seems legit.

/is there any entity more evil than the modern GOP?
 
2013-06-05 04:17:59 PM
Often it is the young and healthy that come to the US to work.  Those are the people we want more of in the insurance pool.
 
2013-06-05 04:23:27 PM

FlashHarry: /is there any entity more evil than the modern GOP?


They have subsets that are more evil than the overall organization. Evangelicals and the Teahadists leap immediately to mind.
 
2013-06-05 04:25:20 PM

DamnYankees: vpb: I think they are trying to deny it to resident aliens.

1) Would resident aliens have access to it now?

2) I think the same thing applies. You still can't make those kind of distinctions for no good reason. If resident aliens have access to Medicare and Medicaid, for example, what's the reason for not having access to this?


That's my question about this, would they have access to Medicare and Medicaid,, and just not to the healthcare exchanges? It's not clear from the article whether they would or wouldn't.

Republicans want to create a third class citizenship status: Full citizen, resident alien, and these people. A step above illegal, but pretty much only so we can collect taxes from them.
 
2013-06-05 05:18:48 PM
How in the fark is this even considered? How do you get kicked out of "obamacare?" I mean, it's just a series of regulations that insurance companies have to follow, with a tax incentive to have insurance.

Does that mean insurance companies could deny a formally illegal resident coverage due to a pre-existing condition? What the fark do we, the people, gain from doing that?
 
2013-06-05 05:20:23 PM
Wait I thought Obamacare was a BAD thing, so now we are letting those icky immigrants the advantage of not being in it to punish them?

Which is it Republicans is Obamacare bad or a good thing?
 
2013-06-05 05:20:59 PM

vernonFL: Not only should they not have access to Obamacare, they should go to separate schools and eat at separate restaurants.


You forgot the ride in the back of the bus.
 
2013-06-05 05:21:31 PM
What if they're not from Mexico?

Has anyone asked that?

They are plenty of Indian and Pakistani programmers that need healthcare.
 
2013-06-05 05:22:38 PM
So we're keeping the same shiatty inefficient system where the uninsured just go to the ER and rack up huge unpaid bills that get passed onto our healthcare costs because conservatives can't stand to heal or educate brown skin children, but they love to spend money blowing them up?

Sweet.
 
2013-06-05 05:24:05 PM
Dedmon:

Does that mean insurance companies could deny a formally illegal resident coverage due to a pre-existing condition? What the fark do we, the people, gain from doing that?


Brown skin people could suffer and die horribly for being brown.  


I think that's pretty much the only point.
 
2013-06-05 05:24:49 PM
Poor, poor Boehner and his House GOP caucus critters. He probably consumes his alcohol via an IV drip right now.
 
2013-06-05 05:36:12 PM
Jonathan Chait is entirely too credulous.  The Obamacare provisions are being inserted as poison pills with the goal of killing immigration reform, all while giving conservatives some plausible deniability that they aren't just trying to avoid legalizing millions of future Democratic voters.
 
2013-06-05 05:37:47 PM
I'd say that Republicans right now are like Taz, spinning in one place while yowling and drooling about everything, but that would be an insult to Taz.
 
2013-06-05 05:39:00 PM
So the Republicans want me to... not be able to get on my company's health care plan? Or what?

Oh, wait, I'm white.
 
2013-06-05 05:41:12 PM

DamnYankees: I'm pretty sure this is not constitutional. IIRC, distinctions between different types of citizens is subject to strict scrutiny, and this would never survive that.


Thats probably what they're hoping for.
 
2013-06-05 05:41:56 PM
Key point: we're not denying them access to Regan's mandatory ER admittance rules, so we're basically giving them the same care essentially for free but at ten times the cost to us.
 
2013-06-05 05:42:21 PM
From TFA: The stumbling block is GOP insistence that newly legalized workers now working in the shadows have no access to government-sponsored health care during their 15-year pathway to citizenship, according to two sources with access to the secret house "Gang of 8″ meetings.

Is it really up to 15 years now?
 
2013-06-05 05:43:46 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: What if they're not from Mexico?

Has anyone asked that?

They are plenty of Indian and Pakistani programmers that need healthcare.


Yep the people over staying visas who are about 50% of illegals we are shipping even more into the United States from this bill. But it's not about anti-Hispanics even though we are flying in even MORE of the illegals from other countries into the US.
 
2013-06-05 05:44:41 PM

DamnYankees: I'm pretty sure this is not constitutional.


It's the GOP.
 
2013-06-05 05:45:23 PM
Perhaps we could allow the new citizens to have, oh, let's say 3/5ths of their share.
 
2013-06-05 05:45:54 PM

ongbok: So they want to create two classes of citizens? I thought the Republicans, being the experts on Constitutional law, would realize that is something specifically forbidden.


No, they are not citizens until/if they become citizens. They are given legal status but it is not citizenship.
 
2013-06-05 05:45:56 PM

yeegrek: From TFA: The stumbling block is GOP insistence that newly legalized workers now working in the shadows have no access to government-sponsored health care during their 15-year pathway to citizenship, according to two sources with access to the secret house "Gang of 8″ meetings.

Is it really up to 15 years now?


This is just unbelievable. How unconscienable.
 
2013-06-05 05:48:34 PM

coco ebert: yeegrek: From TFA: The stumbling block is GOP insistence that newly legalized workers now working in the shadows have no access to government-sponsored health care during their 15-year pathway to citizenship, according to two sources with access to the secret house "Gang of 8″ meetings.

Is it really up to 15 years now?

This is just unbelievable. How unconscienable.


It's seven years as a baseline for green card holders. Why is this surprising?
 
2013-06-05 05:48:36 PM

vernonFL: Wait untii they find out that the dishwasher, the cook, the busboy and the bathroom attendant in their favorite fancy DC restaurant all have untreated diseases.


I know right!?!

Good lord these people ought to be confined. They are clearly a danger to themselves and others.

Lets take the most migrant population in the country and make sure they are carriers for infectious disease.
 
2013-06-05 05:48:56 PM

ongbok: So they want to create two classes of citizens? I thought the Republicans, being the experts on Constitutional law, would realize that is something specifically forbidden.


They already know there are two classes of citizens. Republicans are well aware that there are the "haves" and the "have nots". And those dirty, 47%, government-teet nursing "have nots" are always trying to take something from the "haves".
 
2013-06-05 05:51:09 PM
It's no big deal. Immigration reform will fail because of this. Latinos will vote even more for Democrats--the repubs may lose Florida as a result. In five or ten years Texas, Arizona and Colorado will go blue. Essentially the repubs are refusing to accommodate the fastest growing demographic in the US. By the time this issue comes to a head the economic disaster caused by repub policies in Wisconsin and Kansas will either put those states back in the Democratic column or relegate them to permanent Deep South-like mediocrity. Repub control may soon be limited to the Old Confederacy and low-population-for-good-reason flyover states like Idaho and Montana. Ultra-conservative states will soon find themselves utterly marginalized, without input into or influence over the nation's business. A good place for more progressive states to exploit for cheap labor, or to provide cannon fodder for the nation's wars.
 
2013-06-05 05:53:01 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: coco ebert: yeegrek: From TFA: The stumbling block is GOP insistence that newly legalized workers now working in the shadows have no access to government-sponsored health care during their 15-year pathway to citizenship, according to two sources with access to the secret house "Gang of 8″ meetings.

Is it really up to 15 years now?

This is just unbelievable. How unconscienable.

It's seven years as a baseline for green card holders. Why is this surprising?


No, I meant the blocking governmental health care.
 
2013-06-05 05:59:23 PM

clambam: It's no big deal. Immigration reform will fail because of this. Latinos will vote even more for Democrats--the repubs may lose Florida as a result. In five or ten years Texas, Arizona and Colorado will go blue.


Colorado is basically blue at this point. Maybe indigo.

Arizona will be purple in 8, blue in 15. Lotta old people to die off in AZ.

The only way that Texas goes blue is if North/East Texas breaks off and becomes "The New Republic of Texas" and then the old Texas would become blue.
 
2013-06-05 06:01:43 PM

ongbok: So they want to create two classes of citizens? I thought the Republicans, being the experts on Constitutional law, would realize that is something specifically forbidden.


They can't spell constitution, much less understand it.
 
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