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(CNN)   Flight Attendant kicks rowdy children off of plane. All 108 of them   (cnn.com) divider line 438
    More: Hero, Orthodox Jewish  
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24131 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2013 at 2:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-04 04:32:09 PM

Semantic Warrior: deadspace: i actually posted on CNN's forum and it seems they deleted it.  All i said was the following:

I would like to know if any of the passengers who remained on the plane has made any kind of a statement yet?  I'd really like to hear what the other passengers on the plane felt about the incident.  I have a feeling the airline was not in the wrong.

i really wonder why they deleted my comment...

I posted about the same thing, had someone reply by linking  this comment from a passenger
TLDR:  Kids brought too much crap for overhead baggage area, flight delayed while some had to be checked, during this time kids were non-compliant, antsy, and disruptive.  Captain tells all passengers to calmly deboard, after which the airline told chaperons that a few of the students would not be allowed back on the flight.  Chaperons tell airline they can't just leave kids behind, so kicking a few off would be kicking them all off, airline told them okay then.


Thank you!
 
2013-06-04 04:32:11 PM
People today are coddling the kids too much. Back when I was a kid, if I had been kicked off the plane like this, the teacher would have given me a beating and then sent me home to my dad who would have given me another beating.
 
2013-06-04 04:33:48 PM
I would bet good money this was said at some point:

"What are they going to do? Throw us all off?"
 
2013-06-04 04:33:53 PM
Perhaps the best punishment would have been rebooking them on Spirit via Fort Lauderdale.

I shudder to think what would have happened had this been El Al.

...or if this was the FA:

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-06-04 04:34:05 PM

balki1867: I'm giving this a 99% likely scenario that this was the kids' (or at least a few of them) fault.

I fly 2-3 times a week for work and on multiple occasions, I've witnessed the same flight attendant have to ask someone sitting near me multiple times to shut down a device.  Even then, that person usually waits till the attendant is in their take-off seat and pulls their iPad/laptop right out and continues working or watching movies.

Given the financial implications of running an airline, it'd be ridiculous to let a plane take off with 109 seats empty (especially if it only seats 125 as another poster said).  Kicking someone out has to be a last resort for some really poor behavior.  Kicking off 109 people wouldn't be done without a really compelling airtight reason. There's no question the airline had to have reviewed everything the crew used to justify the decision, and they are standing behind their staff.

Unless there's some really other facts behind this, I'm with the airline here.


I agree, pure speculation but it is likely a few of them were asked to disembark which in turn the rest of the pack also voluntarily got off with them.

While I am sure their are cases of overreacting flight staff for the most part people treat airline personnel like shiat and I really do feel sorry for them, especially ticket counter personnel. There are numerous occasions have wanted to tell that person yelling at them to STFU and sit down.

CSB: Friday before memorial day DFW was shut down due to a huge thunderstorm, a lot of flights got cancelled, including mine, I was confirmed for a flight the next day but asked to be put on stand by for the later flight, which I was able to get on. Anyway,the guy at my gate for standby was really cool and tried to lighten to situation with humor when people weren't yelling at him. Not much one can do about weather.
 
2013-06-04 04:34:19 PM

RevMark: Here's a test... remove all the names from the article, including the school and airline and the fact that they were Jewish, then have someone read it. Dollars to doughnuts whomever read it would get to the end of the article and say, "they're Jewish, aren't they?"


I would have said black.
 
2013-06-04 04:35:18 PM

Begoggle: "I think if it was a group of non-religious kids, the air stewardess wouldn't have dared to kick them off."

Congratulations Christians, you're not the only religion who can pretend to be victims.


Are you implying Jewish people have not been victimized in the past, or am I inferring incorrectly?
 
2013-06-04 04:35:56 PM

bikerbob59: RevMark: Here's a test... remove all the names from the article, including the school and airline and the fact that they were Jewish, then have someone read it. Dollars to doughnuts whomever read it would get to the end of the article and say, "they're Jewish, aren't they?"

I would have said black.


My first thought was a Brazilian soccer team that couldn't afford Disney that year.
 
2013-06-04 04:36:28 PM

fluffy2097: Mythbusters even proved though, that all it takes is the right wire to be touching a bit of aluminum bulkhead to make radio signals cause instruments to glitch out.


All it takes is the right wire to be touching a bit of other wire in the wrong fuel probe to cause an airplane to explode.

The flaw is with the wiring, not external radar signals, which are beyond the plane's control.
 
2013-06-04 04:37:26 PM

bikerbob59: weirdneighbour: Should of kicked them off 35,000 feet up.

And decompress the plane.


Damn, my cunning plan.
 
2013-06-04 04:40:35 PM

balki1867: balki1867: Unless there's some really other facts behind this, I'm with the airline here.

Unless there's some really COMPELLING other facts behind this, I'm with the airline here.


What goes around, comes around.  10 years from now - may any of them who fail to learn from this check into in a hotel on a personal or business trip, near any major metro airport.  On the same floor as every graduating senior from Burnt Corn (Iowa) High School.  Where they can neither jump out of a window themselves, nor toss them all through one.

*smirk*
 
2013-06-04 04:40:46 PM
I'll be honest, I think the chance of consumer electronics interfering with avionics is zero. I still fully support kicking a bunch of rowdy, uncompliant loudmouths off the plane. What's next? We negotiate whether you wear a seatbelt? Are we going to hold a group meeting and decide whether we really think pissing in the aisle instead of the bathroom is so bad?
 
2013-06-04 04:40:58 PM

My Yali or Yours: I guarantee there was a standing ovation as the group was escorted out.


Or sitting, since the other passenger were wearing their seatbelts as they should.
 
2013-06-04 04:41:56 PM

This text is now purple: The flaw is with the wiring, not external radar signals, which are beyond the plane's control.


That's what kills me about this whole "Turn off your cell phones" BS.  So, my cell phone can apparently crash your plane... and this is somehow *my* fault?  Maybe the airplane companies should hire some engineers from Apple.
 
2013-06-04 04:42:45 PM

Erik_Emune: Airlines are fairly sensitive about their departure times.


Define "fairly sensitive". Because it's clearly not sufficiently sensitive to make sure their flight crews arrive at the airport early enough to regularly make their flights.
 
2013-06-04 04:43:05 PM
How DO you babysit 100 kids if they won't babysit themselves? You don't.

/boot
 
2013-06-04 04:43:32 PM

technofiend: I'll be honest, I think the chance of consumer electronics interfering with avionics is zero.



It doesn't matter what you think.  It's an FAA regulation.  Don't like?  Don't fly if you can't do so without heeding the regulations.
 
2013-06-04 04:43:45 PM

Man On Pink Corner: That's what kills me about this whole "Turn off your cell phones" BS. So, my cell phone can apparently crash your plane... and this is somehow *my* fault? Maybe the airplane companies should hire some engineers from Apple.


Apple certainly knows how to make sure a device cannot receive a cellular signal.
 
2013-06-04 04:45:45 PM

MadMonk: I'm not exaggerating, not even other Jewish people like him.


The Jewish communities here in Queens NY (Forest Hills, mostly) were your fairly typical run-of-the-mill, helps-you-with-your-taxes-jews. you know, the kind who's grandparents grew up on the lower east side and their cousin Murray is now a talent agent out in Hollywood. In the 70s and 80s, they they started hearing about all the Persecution and torment that their brothers in the Bukarian and Orthodox sects were having back in eastern Europe and Central Asia, so they campaigned for a long time to help them out and get them over here after the fall of the USSR.  Well, they accepted the invitation, and proceeded to destroy the existing communities in queens and piss off the people who brought them here. to say they regret it is an understatement. The arrogance and sense of entitlement, and complete lack of respect for others is simply amazing.
 
2013-06-04 04:46:18 PM
They treated us like we were terrorists

My heart bleeds for you. (; _ ;)

In keeping with the slight exaggeration you pose, follow me for a minute: If you and your persecuted little buddies are all using electronic devices, that's a lot of stray EMR. Granted, the risk of bringing down a plane with even a lot of stray EMR is somewhere between minute and minuscule - but your actions do create a risk of killing an airplane-load of people for no good g--d--- reason. Now what is it that terrorists like to do again...?
 
2013-06-04 04:46:37 PM
Good for AirTran. I'm sure the 101 future personal injury lawyers and politicians were obnoxious and rude and 100% to blame.
 
2013-06-04 04:47:11 PM

Man On Pink Corner: This text is now purple: The flaw is with the wiring, not external radar signals, which are beyond the plane's control.

That's what kills me about this whole "Turn off your cell phones" BS.  So, my cell phone can apparently crash your plane... and this is somehow *my* fault?  Maybe the airplane companies should hire some engineers from Apple.


Yeah... Apple never built anything that crashed.
 
2013-06-04 04:50:33 PM
They were going to Six Flags in Atlanta. That place is a sucky money trap. The kids should give the flight crew medals for keeping them from getting there.

/It used to be a lot of fun in the 70s though.
 
2013-06-04 04:51:09 PM
Flight Attendant kicks rowdy children off of plane. All 108 of them

FTAOne hundred one students and eight chaperones were kicked off

But what??

One hundred one students and eight chaperones were kicked off

There's a code here.  Or...chicharones...or...everyon fails
 
2013-06-04 04:51:22 PM

oldfarthenry: Stewardess: `THAT'S IT! We're flying this plane to Winnipeg!'

Boys & Goils: `AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!'


Mayor Sam Katz would greet them at the airport.
 
2013-06-04 05:02:26 PM

tripleseven: On a flight recently, I saw the stewardess tell a kid three farking times to shut off his hone for landing.  Each time, he nodded, then continued to ignore her.

Really, it's not hard to be without your phone for 20 minutes.

Oh, yeah, and before the internet electrical engineer brigade gets on here to tell me that "it's no big deal"  well, I suppose, but lets just say something did happen, would you want to be the assfark who just killed 100 people cause you didn't want to listen?


A kid next to me on a flight was told twice, the third time she took his phone from him and gave it back when the flight ended.
 
2013-06-04 05:05:40 PM

Man On Pink Corner: This text is now purple: The flaw is with the wiring, not external radar signals, which are beyond the plane's control.

That's what kills me about this whole "Turn off your cell phones" BS.  So, my cell phone can apparently crash your plane... and this is somehow *my* fault?  Maybe the airplane companies should hire some engineers from Apple.


Turn off your damn cell phone because at 20k+ feet you're tying up channels on many many towers.
 
2013-06-04 05:07:45 PM
Dear Staff of Joel Braverman High School at Yeshiva of Flatbush:

Airtran did not remove your schoolchildren and their chaperones from the plane for Flying Whilst Orthodox; they were removed because a) the kids were being insufferable shiats who apparently are too damned derpy and distracted to be able to read the in-flight safety brochures and listen to the pre-flight safety instruction that pretty explicitly says "no phones in flight, and no electronic devices until the captain gives the OK and even then the iDevices need to be in airplane mode" and b) your chaperones were doing an utterly piss-poor job at chaperoning and making sure the insufferable shiats mentioned in a) actually followed the instructions of the stewardess.

Perhaps if your chaperones did their job (making sure the kids turned off the electronic devices and pay attention to the safety instructions so they can know what to do in case something goes Very Wrong during flight) and the kids followed the instructions (which are not just a thing that the flight attendant makes up to be an Evil Nazi Meanie but are part of FAA instructions and thus are federal laws), we'd not have to worry about this.

(And just in case you wonder why the attendant gets extra persnickety on this on takeoff and landing--"flight" is basically the art of falling without hitting the ground.  Takeoff and landing are the most dangerous times in flight because you're trying to throw the airplane up in the air in such a way that it will fall without hitting, and then gently having it fall instead of smacking very hard and very fast into the ground.  This also happens to be the times that the pilots REALLY tend to rely on THEIR electronic doodads.)

Shalom,
-GPD
 
2013-06-04 05:09:10 PM
Being on a plane with 101 teenagers is a close to the definition of a living hell as you can get.

I was on a plane with like 10-15 and it was insane.  Constantly being told to not do this or that by the crew and other passengers, yelling , laughing, singing, whistling, tapping on things.  It was basically every single violation of plane (or just plain societal) etiquette:   FOR 12 HOURS.
 
2013-06-04 05:09:38 PM

BgJonson79: Begoggle: "I think if it was a group of non-religious kids, the air stewardess wouldn't have dared to kick them off."

Congratulations Christians, you're not the only religion who can pretend to be victims.

Are you implying Jewish people have not been victimized in the past, or am I inferring incorrectly?


Having ancestors who were genuinely victimized in the past does not mean you are presently being victimized.

(Hell, having been genuinely victimized yourself in the past doesn't mean you are presently being victimized... but for some strange reason that's rarely not a moot point.)

If you are not presently being victimized but claim you are, you are pretending to be a victim. Simple enough?
 
2013-06-04 05:10:22 PM

Rhypskallion: roughridersfan:
How many other students around him were asked in the meantimE? Probably more than one. He should have taken the hint the first time the flight attendant told one of his classmates to turn off their phone instead of thinking the request didn't apply to him.

I can't hear everything said in the vicinity of 109 quiet people.   You've made some interesting assumptions about the superhuman senses these kids should have.    I don't think that your conclusion is reasonable.   He may have not had any reasonable warning.   Passenger compartment speakers are not always clear, so broadcast messages may not have been understandable.


Thank you for fixing the missing "e" in "meantime". I saw it after and cursed my proofreading! I hang my head in shame.

I've flown a lot in my life. I usually have minimal trouble hearing the announcements, but that's because I pay attention. Even as a teenager I did - but I treated flying like a privilege and still do.

A plane is a very crowded thing and conversations can be heard, especially when the same thing is repeated multiple times. Flight attendants tend to be a little louder in these situations so they don't have to repeat the same message to EVERY SINGLE PERSON. They may give a gentle reminder the first time or two but, if they see a pattern, they don't want to waste time because passengers on the ground get restless and want to fly.

I don't think I'm making poor assumptions about the situation.
 
2013-06-04 05:11:55 PM

Zmog: My Yali or Yours: I guarantee there was a standing ovation as the group was escorted out.

Or sitting, since the other passenger were wearing their seatbelts as they should.


Speaking of people clapping on planes, what's with old people applauding when the plane lands?
 
2013-06-04 05:16:51 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Only once in all my flights have I ever seen the pilot leave the cockpit to tell an asspipe "turn the phone off or you're gone" so I can only imagine the shrieking tube of misery this plane must have been to inspire such a forced exodus.


I see what you did there.
 
2013-06-04 05:17:10 PM
Student Jonathan Zehavi said he felt they were targeted because they are an identifiably Jewish group.

Yep, I was wondering how long into the article I could get without seeing the "persecution" excuse.
 
2013-06-04 05:19:29 PM
I lay the blame on the chaperones. Kids should have been made to shut off cell phones before they even got on the plane. What business does a kid have that would necessitate them even using the phone once on the plane. (yeah yeah some people gotta play their music). Your still a douche for even having it on once you cross the planes door until the pilot says OK to use now.
 
2013-06-04 05:26:15 PM

J. Frank Parnell: They still have the no cell phone warnings at the gas stations around here, and they can cause static


My understanding is that the phones themselves do not generate static electricity.  Also, the electromagnetic emissions are too low to generate a spark.

The problem is that a lot of people on the phone will reenter their vehicle while fueling up.  Sliding in and out of your seat can generate a static build-up.  When they return to the pump, zap.  You can discharge any build-up by touching the car before you touch the pump, but people talking on a cell phone are less likely to remember to do that even if they know about it.

That's how we ended up with blanket rules against cell phones at most fuel stations.
 
2013-06-04 05:27:52 PM

tripleseven: Oh, yeah, and before the internet electrical engineer brigade gets on here to tell me that "it's no big deal"  well, I suppose, but lets just say something did happen, would you want to be the assfark who just killed 100 people cause you didn't want to listen?


Have you flown at all in the last 15 years?  I'd bet that no more than 20% of the passengers turn off their phones (and I think I'm being overly generous with that number).  If something were going to happen, it would have happened.

Cell phones don't interfere with plane instrumentation.  I'll go ahead and say that again: "Your federally-mandated-to-not-interfere-with-electronics cell phone does not interfere with a plane's instrumentation."

That said, I'm still on team "Kids got what they deserved."
 
2013-06-04 05:29:05 PM

TNel: Sorry you should have told your students to stop messing around and sit and listen.


Used to be 7 teachers could control 100 students in public because if and when you acted up they had authority to punish you. Hell, Victorian teachers had more leeway than military interrogations do now.

Now, it's freakin' impossible. Not only do teachers not have the legal and social authority to punish kids, the kids know it.
 
2013-06-04 05:29:51 PM
Anyone who has to deal with teenagers for more than five minutes will walk away believing abortions should be legal up to the 75th trimester.
 
2013-06-04 05:32:48 PM

Persnickety: I'm gonna go out on a limb and speculate that more than a couple of these kids' parents might be lawyers.  I smell lawsuit.


Maybe just for show, but bigger, badder, celebrities have tried and failed.
 
2013-06-04 05:34:42 PM
While I think the idea of phones causing some electrical disturbance in the plane is farking stupid, I don't have a problem with stowing small objects that can be painful projectiles during the two times emergency maneuvers or oh shiat moments happen.  Just sit down and put your damned phone/pad whatever in the seat pocket in front of you.

If having phones on did cause such massive interference in commercial aircraft that it was a danger to the plane:
1. It would have happened by now
2. We would have to check the damned things upon entry so they could be stored in a shielded container.
 
2013-06-04 05:38:50 PM

fluffy2097: BrainyBear: I'm sorry, Corporal Punishment is busy -- we're going to have to bring in


"How old are these kids!? Damnit Venture! I've got a court order!"


"What, did Henry Darger write this?"

/love that show
//so glad it's back
 
2013-06-04 05:42:46 PM

wingnut396: While I think the idea of phones causing some electrical disturbance in the plane is farking stupid, I don't have a problem with stowing small objects that can be painful projectiles during the two times emergency maneuvers or oh shiat moments happen.  Just sit down and put your damned phone/pad whatever in the seat pocket in front of you.

If having phones on did cause such massive interference in commercial aircraft that it was a danger to the plane:
1. It would have happened by now
2. We would have to check the damned things upon entry so they could be stored in a shielded container.


You make a good suggestion.
When it is people, there is no limit to creative mayhem.
In a group, with "magic" toys and tools, the mind boggles at the possibilities!

/ok Duke, roll that big, beautiful monkey with an AK footage
 
2013-06-04 05:44:43 PM
Regarding the whole "phone/ipad video" thing ... Aren't planes pretty much frickin' lined with cameras by the airlines themselves these days?
 
2013-06-04 05:45:14 PM

wingnut396: If having phones on did cause such massive interference in commercial aircraft that it was a danger to the plane:
1. It would have happened by now
2. We would have to check the damned things upon entry so they could be stored in a shielded container.


I think the biggest issue with electronics at take-off & landing is that those two moments are when they are most likely to have an emergency.  If the flight crew needs to quickly dish out instructions, they don't want people messing around with angry birds or listening to music on their noise cancelling headset.  It's entirely true that a handful of people will be buried in a book and wearing earplugs, but that's generally not the case, and earplugs are not as ubiquitous as electronics on a plane. They want people to be able to listen to instructions and quickly act on them.  That's also why they want seats and trays up-- so you are not fiddling with the tray table or the reclined seat in front of you as you're trying to get to the aisle.

Once the plane gets in the air, they have plenty of time to run diagnostics if something on the plane isn't working, or get everyone's attention if there is an emergency.  The reason the phone continues to be banned, as another poster pointed out, is that it's attempting to handshake with every cell tower it can talk to and wasting bandwidth on multiple towers at once.

Of course it's way easier to tell everyone it interferes with communications than to talk about the plane potentially landing in the Hudson river, requiring a prompt exit.
 
2013-06-04 05:47:22 PM

BunkoSquad: "Next year at Six Flags!"


That is funny


+1
 
2013-06-04 05:49:32 PM

wingnut396: If having phones on did cause such massive interference in commercial aircraft that it was a danger to the plane:
1. It would have happened by now


You said you would never forget!
 
2013-06-04 05:50:37 PM

mbillips: JesusJuice: Jews crying antisemitism when called out for acting like douchebags?Say it isn't so!

FINALLY! I was wondering where all the anti-semitic Farkers were.


That's not really antisemitism.

RevMark: Here's a test... remove all the names from the article, including the school and airline and the fact that they were Jewish, then have someone read it. Dollars to doughnuts whomever read it would get to the end of the article and say, "they're Jewish, aren't they?"


This is antisemitism.
 
2013-06-04 05:53:16 PM

doglover: TNel: Sorry you should have told your students to stop messing around and sit and listen.

Used to be 7 teachers could control 100 students in public because if and when you acted up they had authority to punish you. Hell, Victorian teachers had more leeway than military interrogations do now.

Now, it's freakin' impossible. Not only do teachers not have the legal and social authority to punish kids, the kids know it.


I think you have it backwards.  8 chaperones can't begin to properly control 100 kids.  Maybe my class was terrible, but I remember having 5-6 chaperones for just 20 kids.  That being said, I went to a high school that could still motivate with its punishments.  (CSB: 5-day Sun-Fri boarding school making you stay the weekend was always a nasty punishment.)
 
2013-06-04 05:53:22 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Dear Staff of Joel Braverman High School at Yeshiva of Flatbush:

Airtran did not remove your schoolchildren and their chaperones from the plane for Flying Whilst Orthodox; they were removed because a) the kids were being insufferable shiats who apparently are too damned derpy and distracted to be able to read the in-flight safety brochures and listen to the pre-flight safety instruction that pretty explicitly says "no phones in flight, and no electronic devices until the captain gives the OK and even then the iDevices need to be in airplane mode" and b) your chaperones were doing an utterly piss-poor job at chaperoning and making sure the insufferable shiats mentioned in a) actually followed the instructions of the stewardess.

Perhaps if your chaperones did their job (making sure the kids turned off the electronic devices and pay attention to the safety instructions so they can know what to do in case something goes Very Wrong during flight) and the kids followed the instructions (which are not just a thing that the flight attendant makes up to be an Evil Nazi Meanie but are part of FAA instructions and thus are federal laws), we'd not have to worry about this.

(And just in case you wonder why the attendant gets extra persnickety on this on takeoff and landing--"flight" is basically the art of falling without hitting the ground.  Takeoff and landing are the most dangerous times in flight because you're trying to throw the airplane up in the air in such a way that it will fall without hitting, and then gently having it fall instead of smacking very hard and very fast into the ground.  This also happens to be the times that the pilots REALLY tend to rely on THEIR electronic doodads.)

Shalom,
-GPD


Associate Principal Bacon frowns at your shenanigans.
 
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