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(Science News)   Archaeologists say French winemaking culture actually imported from Italy   (sci-news.com) divider line 33
    More: Interesting, Lattara, Italy, archaeologists, archaeological evidence, chardonnay, Caucasus Mountains, appreciations, Eurasian  
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603 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jun 2013 at 1:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-04 01:12:08 PM
Another proof that archaeologists do not drink?

Or were they drunk when they came up with this conclusion?
 
2013-06-04 01:12:36 PM
Well the vines in France come from Missouri. Same with California's but via France. So when you enjoy your wine thank Missouri's German settlers. They turned Missouri into wine country
 
2013-06-04 01:18:35 PM
Man, those Italians have a lot of gaul to claim that!
 
2013-06-04 01:32:53 PM
I would love to taste what they were drinking then. It would be the flavors of the beginning of civilization.
 
2013-06-04 01:33:57 PM
Doesn't french gourmet cooking also have its roots in two chefs that Napoleon hired from Italy?
 
2013-06-04 01:42:55 PM
People called Romans, they go the house?
 
2013-06-04 01:44:38 PM

Gonz: I would love to taste what they were drinking then. It would be the flavors of the beginning of civilization.


Just drink your wine as half wine/half water and add sugar.
 
2013-06-04 01:46:01 PM
That reminds me I have to check the wine I am doing.  Second time doing a wine so I am a little nervous.  First time, I have no idea what I did wrong but that was completely undrinkable.
 
2013-06-04 01:47:19 PM
And the Italians got it from the Greeks. Winemaking that it is...
 
2013-06-04 01:49:50 PM

Egoy3k: Doesn't french gourmet cooking also have its roots in two chefs that Napoleon hired from Italy?


No.  Catherine di Medici did that.
 
2013-06-04 01:57:38 PM
A little Italian chauvinism here?

From Nature:

"By 600 bc, the Etruscans of central Italy were trading their wine along the French Mediterranean coast. Around the same time, wine-loving Greeks established a colony at Massalia (present-day Marseilles, France)."

The researchers identified the wine press from its similarity to that shown in this Athenian vase.

www.nature.com

So, it appears that the wine making was established by Greeks, even if the wine was transported in amphorae that were manufactured in the nearby Etruscan  style.
 
2013-06-04 02:04:16 PM

Gonz: I would love to taste what they were drinking then. It would be the flavors of the beginning of civilization.


Drink retsina. Then Muscat grape wine. Both have been around since then...
 
2013-06-04 02:07:50 PM
Whoops, and Limnio.
 
2013-06-04 02:15:24 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Well the vines in France come from Missouri.


Well, the roots do, at any rate. Not the vines (Vitis vinifera is not native to North America).

Missouri can at least be crediting with  saving all the vines in France (and everywhere else other than Cyprus) though. So that's something.
 
2013-06-04 02:19:44 PM

Saiga410: That reminds me I have to check the wine I am doing.  Second time doing a wine so I am a little nervous.  First time, I have no idea what I did wrong but that was completely undrinkable.


It's amazing how quick vinegar will spread, if the wrong bugs get in. Just be patient, your yeasts know what to do.
 
2013-06-04 02:30:40 PM
If memory serves wasn't it the Iranians who invented wine making like way, way, WAY back in the day?
 
2013-06-04 02:33:32 PM

HairBolus: A little Italian chauvinism here?

From Nature:

"By 600 bc, the Etruscans of central Italy were trading their wine along the French Mediterranean coast. Around the same time, wine-loving Greeks established a colony at Massalia (present-day Marseilles, France)."

The researchers identified the wine press from its similarity to that shown in this Athenian vase.

[www.nature.com image 630x377]

So, it appears that the wine making was established by Greeks, even if the wine was transported in amphorae that were manufactured in the nearby Etruscan  style.


A couple of those gentlemen are really enjoying the wine making, it would seem.
 
2013-06-04 02:40:12 PM

JayCab: Missouri can at least be crediting with  saving all the vines in France


are you talking about the phylloxera epidemic? i always thought they were replaced by california vines.
 
2013-06-04 02:46:07 PM

naughtyrev: HairBolus: A little Italian chauvinism here?


www.nature.com

A couple of those gentlemen are really enjoying the wine making, it would seem.

Did you notice that they were also sporting tails? Dionysus (Bacchus) was the god of the grape harvest, winemaking and wine, of ritual madness and ecstasy.

And it is well known that wine turns men into beasts.
 
2013-06-04 03:03:46 PM

FlashHarry: JayCab: Missouri can at least be crediting with  saving all the vines in France

are you talking about the phylloxera epidemic? i always thought they were replaced by california vines.


Same here. TO THE GOOGLES!

Eh. I'm lazy. :(
 
2013-06-04 03:16:16 PM
Duh.

/in vino veritas
 
2013-06-04 03:17:06 PM

Summercat: FlashHarry: JayCab: Missouri can at least be crediting with  saving all the vines in France

are you talking about the phylloxera epidemic? i always thought they were replaced by california vines.

Same here. TO THE GOOGLES!

Eh. I'm lazy. :(



There have been several phlloxera epidemics, from the mid 1800s to today.  The species of grapes native to the US (primarily v. rupestris, v. riparis, and v. berlandieri) were used to grow rootstocks, which were then grafted with flowering portion of the various varieties of the the European species (v. vinifera).  The upper portions came from cuttings of non-infested regions of Europe (particularly sandy soils), as well as the US.  The phylloxera louse continues to evolve, and in turn we continue to breed better root stocks.
 
2013-06-04 03:50:37 PM

eynonmcwanker: If memory serves wasn't it the Iranians who invented wine making like way, way, WAY back in the day?


I wouldn't trust your memory back that far. I can't remember much from ten years ago.
 
2013-06-04 03:56:08 PM

Egoy3k: Doesn't french gourmet cooking also have its roots in two chefs that Napoleon hired from Italy?


Couple hundred years before that.


FrancoFile:  No.  Catherine di Medici did that.

Yeah, just dont mention it to the french.
 
2013-06-04 04:32:18 PM

eynonmcwanker: If memory serves wasn't it the Iranians who invented wine making like way, way, WAY back in the day?


If you crush up a bunch of grapes- in a deep, fairly narrow, vessel- you've got to make a decent effort to prevent wine from forming. Especially if you don't have modern sterilization. Nature WANTS to turn grapes into wine, and it takes some work to stop it.
 
2013-06-04 04:40:03 PM
Ah yes, but no more 1966. Let's splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you've got - this year! No more of this old stuff."
 
2013-06-04 04:49:00 PM

dryknife: Ah yes, but no more 1966. Let's splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you've got - this year! No more of this old stuff."


LOL i'd forgotten that line.
 
2013-06-04 04:59:06 PM
Really?  A Latin country that was a province of the Roman empire, which considered wine to be a staple and originated much of the cultivation and processing tech for the species of grape used in wine-making, might have inherited some of its wine culture and technology from the Italian peninsula?

You don't farking say.
 
2013-06-04 06:23:05 PM
This shouldn't be news to anyone. Julius Caesar himself spoke of how the Gauls drank beer and compared it to the Roman's better tasting wine.
 
2013-06-05 01:50:20 AM

Cyno01: Egoy3k: Doesn't french gourmet cooking also have its roots in two chefs that Napoleon hired from Italy?

Couple hundred years before that.


FrancoFile:  No.  Catherine di Medici did that.

Yeah, just dont mention it to the french.


The French don't actually care. They learned in school that their position in the center of Europe means that their culture is a mix of the culture of every countries.
So of course French got their culinary tradition from Italy, a few hundred years ago. But nowadays, which country has perfected it so much that it's synonymous with ''gourmet'' ?
 
2013-06-05 07:28:46 AM
padraig:So of course French got their culinary tradition from Italy, a few hundred years ago. But nowadays, which country has perfected it so much that it's synonymous with ''gourmet'' ?

Maybe because that is a French based word?
 
2013-06-05 12:09:14 PM

pkellmey: padraig:So of course French got their culinary tradition from Italy, a few hundred years ago. But nowadays, which country has perfected it so much that it's synonymous with ''gourmet'' ?

Maybe because that is a French based word?


No, we don't have a word for "gourmet" in France, just like "entrepreneur"
 
2013-06-05 12:50:02 PM

padraig: pkellmey: padraig:So of course French got their culinary tradition from Italy, a few hundred years ago. But nowadays, which country has perfected it so much that it's synonymous with ''gourmet'' ?

Maybe because that is a French based word?

No, we don't have a word for "gourmet" in France, just like "entrepreneur"


So they have to move to an English speaking country to be one?
 
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