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(Slate)   When one takes the time to analyze the economic realities of Westeros, one understands that Walder Frey was actually completely justified in seeking vengeance   (slate.com) divider line 211
    More: Interesting, Walder Frey, Westeros, vengeance, Economic egalitarianism, George R. R. Martin, arranged marriages  
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5790 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Jun 2013 at 10:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-04 09:19:40 AM  
I guess there are worse ways to waste one's time.

Also, what are the economic impacts from the destruction of the slave trade in the free cities?
 
2013-06-04 09:19:55 AM  
Walder Frey is my new favorite character. fark Robb with his Karstark killing and his oath breaking.
 
2013-06-04 09:29:35 AM  
Is it any wonder I've got too much time on my hands?
Ticking away with my sanity
I've got too much time on my hands
It's hard to believe such a calamity
I've got too much time on my hands
And it's ticking away - ticking away from me
 
2013-06-04 09:33:47 AM  
t1.gstatic.com
/obligatory
 
2013-06-04 09:55:22 AM  
He wasn't seeking vengeance.  He cut a deal with the Lannisters and was just holding up his end of the bargain.
 
2013-06-04 09:56:31 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Walder Frey is my new favorite character. fark Robb with his Karstark killing and his oath breaking.


And what was up with his mom?  She couldn't hold onto a hostage if it was stuck up her ass.
 
2013-06-04 10:17:41 AM  
The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.
 
2013-06-04 10:25:32 AM  
Also, random tangent, but after Sunday's episodes I get pretty fed up with this series when I realized there were almost no characters left that I actually gave a crap about. The only reason I was watching was to see where the plot goes. So I decided to finally say "fark it, read the spoilers"

POSSIBLE SPOILERS JUST FROM MY REACTION

I'm pretty glad I did, since now I know I don't really want to keep watching this show. There is something which ought to happen next week which I'll want to see, but after that I'll just find the odd scene here and there I want to see played out. I have no desire to watch 90% of what I now know is coming.
 
2013-06-04 10:25:48 AM  

DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. .


Well, you know, also the whole thing where Aerys burned his father alive and strangled his older brother might have played into it.
 
2013-06-04 10:30:27 AM  

impaler: I guess there are worse ways to waste one's time.

Also, what are the economic impacts from the destruction of the slave trade in the free cities?


The slaveowners go on about this at some length in the books and Daenerys starts gaining followers who expect to be fed

Also, geez, what is this the 5th GoT thread? It's not exactly election night. They didn't even bother to feign Arya's death like Martin did.
 
2013-06-04 10:36:43 AM  
Next Up:  How the scene is a veiled commentary on birth control.
 
2013-06-04 10:36:44 AM  

DamnYankees: Also, random tangent, but after Sunday's episodes I get pretty fed up with this series when I realized there were almost no characters left that I actually gave a crap about. The only reason I was watching was to see where the plot goes. So I decided to finally say "fark it, read the spoilers"

POSSIBLE SPOILERS JUST FROM MY REACTION

I'm pretty glad I did, since now I know I don't really want to keep watching this show. There is something which ought to happen next week which I'll want to see, but after that I'll just find the odd scene here and there I want to see played out. I have no desire to watch 90% of what I now know is coming.


Does that mean we'll see 90% fewer posts from you in these discussions ??
 
2013-06-04 10:39:09 AM  

Strik3r: Does that mean we'll see 90% fewer posts from you in these discussions ??


Probably. I never post in GOT threads since I was spoiler-phobic. But now I'm free!
 
2013-06-04 10:39:22 AM  

Sybarite: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. .

Well, you know, also the whole thing where Aerys burned his father alive and strangled his older brother might have played into it.


There's also a theory out there in bloggerville that the king (or his son) did more than just kidnap Ned's sister.

moothemagiccow: They didn't even bother to feign Arya's death


THAT is the part that had me throw the book at the wall, not the Red Wedding, as others were mentioning yesterday in the other threads.
 
2013-06-04 10:39:46 AM  

DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.


The mad king murdered his father and older brother and ordered his foster father to deliver him to Kings Landing to most likely suffer the same fate. Rhaegar "abducting" Lyanna certainly motivated him, but that was more Robert's cause, and the Starks were already adverse to the crown without it having happened.
 
2013-06-04 10:41:34 AM  

kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.

The mad king murdered his father and older brother and ordered his foster father to deliver him to Kings Landing to most likely suffer the same fate. Rhaegar "abducting" Lyanna certainly motivated him, but that was more Robert's cause, and the Starks were already adverse to the crown without it having happened.


That's fine, but how is that better than Jamie? He saved an entire city from mass death.
 
2013-06-04 10:45:49 AM  

Sybarite: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. .

Well, you know, also the whole thing where Aerys burned his father alive and strangled his older brother might have played into it.


Not to mention raising Rhaegar's bastard son as his own, a son that was possibly conceived through the rape of his sister who later died at the hands Targaryen bannermen.
 
2013-06-04 10:45:51 AM  

moothemagiccow: Also, geez, what is this the 5th GoT thread? It's not exactly election night. They didn't even bother to feign Arya's death like Martin did.


I forgot about that. The book was worse than the TV show, because one was left with the impression that 3 Starks died.

And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run. His axe took her in the back of the head.

End Chapter...
 
2013-06-04 10:48:51 AM  

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.

The mad king murdered his father and older brother and ordered his foster father to deliver him to Kings Landing to most likely suffer the same fate. Rhaegar "abducting" Lyanna certainly motivated him, but that was more Robert's cause, and the Starks were already adverse to the crown without it having happened.

That's fine, but how is that better than Jamie? He saved an entire city from mass death.


Yes, but how many people know about that/even care?  He's the kingslayer, and broke the rules of the Kingsguard.  That's all that matters to most people.
 
2013-06-04 10:49:56 AM  
What's with the GoT threads today?  BTW, is this series worth watching?
 
2013-06-04 10:50:11 AM  

AntonChigger: Yes, but how many people know about that/even care?


You and I know, as viewers. That's what I care about.
 
2013-06-04 11:05:17 AM  

DamnYankees: You and I know, as viewers. That's what I care about.


As viewers, we know Joffrey is Jamie's kid, and not heir to the thrown. Yet here we are.
 
2013-06-04 11:10:45 AM  

AntonChigger: DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.

The mad king murdered his father and older brother and ordered his foster father to deliver him to Kings Landing to most likely suffer the same fate. Rhaegar "abducting" Lyanna certainly motivated him, but that was more Robert's cause, and the Starks were already adverse to the crown without it having happened.

That's fine, but how is that better than Jamie? He saved an entire city from mass death.

Yes, but how many people know about that/even care?  He's the kingslayer, and broke the rules of the Kingsguard.  That's all that matters to most people.


He also f*cks his sister.
 
2013-06-04 11:17:22 AM  

impaler: moothemagiccow: Also, geez, what is this the 5th GoT thread? It's not exactly election night. They didn't even bother to feign Arya's death like Martin did.

I forgot about that. The book was worse than the TV show, because one was left with the impression that 3 Starks died.

And Arya ran. Not for her brother now, not even for her mother, but for herself. She ran faster than she had ever run before, her head down and her feet churning up the river, she ran from him as Mycah must have run. His axe took her in the back of the head.

End Chapter...


Would have been easy to have a shot of the Hound appearing behind Arya, her wheeling around, and his sword, axe coming down, then cut back inside to finish off Caitlyn.
 
2013-06-04 11:18:50 AM  

PsyLord: What's with the GoT threads today?


One admin likes the series, and we're too dumb to not post in them.  Just like the wrestling threads on mondays.
 
2013-06-04 11:22:14 AM  
Robb was foolish and naive and that is what got him in the end. Pretty sick that they had his wife there in the show.. That wasn't in the book, and added a whole new level of gruesome to that scene.
 
2013-06-04 11:23:45 AM  

DamnYankees: That's fine, but how is that better than Jamie? He saved an entire city from mass death.


Nobody knows about that other than Jaime and now Brienne, though. Obviously they're gonna be hard on him for backstabbing the king for no reason.

DamnYankees: I'm pretty glad I did, since now I know I don't really want to keep watching this show.


As someone who's actually read the books, a lot of my favorite scenes are yet to come. The Red Viper versus the Mountain, Tyrion proving that his father does not in fact shiat gold, Kevan's response to Cersei when she asks him to be Hand, pretty much everything Stannis does from now on (there's a reason he's a lot more popular with people who've read the books), Jaime promising to send Edmure his son....

You can't really judge a story just on a wikipedia summary.
 
2013-06-04 11:23:46 AM  

Flab: PsyLord: What's with the GoT threads today?

One admin likes the series, and we're too dumb to not post in them.  Just like the wrestling threads on mondays.


So is this series worth watching for the story?  Or is it just an excuse to see nekkid women?
 
2013-06-04 11:26:09 AM  

Gunther: You can't really judge a story just on a wikipedia summary.


Of course not. But look at the things you just mentioned:

Gunther: The Red Viper versus the Mountain


I don't know who the Red Viper is, so I don't know why I should care.

Gunther: Tyrion proving that his father does not in fact shiat gol


This is one of the scenes I'll come back to see.

Gunther: Kevan's response to Cersei when she asks him to be Hand


Never even heard of Kevan within the show. Again, its a character I couldn't care less about.

Gunther: Jaime promising to send Edmure his son....


I don't even know what this means.

What you're basically saying is that I need to keep watching this show to meet *new* characters, who will only get a few scenes each given the way the show is structured, in order to watch them have one cool scene. That's...not worth it.
 
2013-06-04 11:27:37 AM  

Gunther: As someone who's actually read the books, a lot of my favorite scenes are yet to come. The Red Viper versus the Mountain, Tyrion proving that his father does not in fact shiat gold, Kevan's response to Cersei when she asks him to be Hand, pretty much everything Stannis does from now on (there's a reason he's a lot more popular with people who've read the books), Jaime promising to send Edmure his son....

You can't really judge a story just on a wikipedia summary.


My problem is that the books are so farking horribly written that I pretty much have to see the show first, then read the corresponding book. Martin is amazing at plotting, and putting characters in interesting situations. His dialogue and pacing are brutal, and render him almost unreadable to me. It feels like work slogging through his books.
 
2013-06-04 11:32:13 AM  

PsyLord: Flab: PsyLord: What's with the GoT threads today?

One admin likes the series, and we're too dumb to not post in them.  Just like the wrestling threads on mondays.

So is this series worth watching for the story?  Or is it just an excuse to see nekkid women?


Why would you need an excuse?
 
2013-06-04 11:35:50 AM  

DamnYankees: What you're basically saying is that I need to keep watching this show to meet *new* characters, who will only get a few scenes each given the way the show is structured, in order to watch them have one cool scene. That's...not worth it.


i think your problem is that you are attempting to view the show in terms of character development.  i did too right up to the moment that ned's head fell off.  from that point the show became more about enjoying the massive, sweeping plot and unpredictable turns.
 
2013-06-04 11:37:41 AM  

thomps: i think your problem is that you are attempting to view the show in terms of character development.


That's fair. Character development is extremely important to me.

thomps: from that point the show became more about enjoying the massive, sweeping plot and unpredictable turns.


Exactly. But if all I care about is plot, I can just read a plot summary. Which is what I did.
 
2013-06-04 11:39:07 AM  
Gunther:
The Red Viper versus the Mountain,


It'll be awhile before I'm ready for that scene. Especially if the show makes Oberyn a great character.
 
2013-06-04 11:40:18 AM  

DamnYankees: Never even heard of Kevan within the show. Again, its a character I couldn't care less about.


Kevan Lannister was in Season 1 during the episodes where Tyrion was up at the front with Tywin and the Lannister army.
 
2013-06-04 11:40:23 AM  

thomps: i did too right up to the moment that ned's head fell off. from that point the show became more about enjoying the massive, sweeping plot and unpredictable turns


But there is signficant character development to come, just from character's you didn't expect. (spoiler)

Jaime's arc is great from pure villain to unsure, to maybe a positive spin
Cercei Schadenfreude
Theon's develolution-revolution
Tyrion's despair and rebirth
Arya's journey

The books have a whole lot of filler.. you can tell it was 1 book turned into 2.  I think HBO will really improve on the material as it continues.
 
2013-06-04 11:41:18 AM  

StubhyGraham: It'll be awhile before I'm ready for that scene. Especially if the show makes Oberyn a great character.


spoilerish

That scene almost made me stop reading the books.. more for Tyrion than Oberyn.
 
2013-06-04 11:42:33 AM  

Hebalo: My problem is that the books are so farking horribly written that I pretty much have to see the show first, then read the corresponding book. Martin is amazing at plotting, and putting characters in interesting situations. His dialogue and pacing are brutal, and render him almost unreadable to me. It feels like work slogging through his books.


Don't worry, for the final two books, Martin is only planning on 1500 pages... per book.

/wonder if HBO has a contractual clause that forces him to divulge the ending plot to the series writers if he doesn't finish on time.
 
2013-06-04 11:45:22 AM  

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.

The mad king murdered his father and older brother and ordered his foster father to deliver him to Kings Landing to most likely suffer the same fate. Rhaegar "abducting" Lyanna certainly motivated him, but that was more Robert's cause, and the Starks were already adverse to the crown without it having happened.

That's fine, but how is that better than Jamie? He saved an entire city from mass death.


Congratulations. All of 1 other person in the GoT universe knows that, Brienne. Jamie spent an entire scene muttering through a fever dream as to what happened and why he didn't bother to explain that to the rebels. Hell Tywin even spent a scene in the first season yelling at Jamie after Jamie said "I don't care what other people think of me."
 
2013-06-04 11:45:51 AM  

DamnYankees: I don't even know what this means.


Well yeah, I was deliberately phrasing all those in vague as possible terms to avoid spoiling people.
 
2013-06-04 11:51:22 AM  
Jaime = Han Solo. The loveable ex-empire rogue traveling with a large warrior side-kick. But, he will end up dead.
 
2013-06-04 11:53:32 AM  

MugzyBrown: thomps: i did too right up to the moment that ned's head fell off. from that point the show became more about enjoying the massive, sweeping plot and unpredictable turns

But there is signficant character development to come, just from character's you didn't expect. (spoiler)

Jaime's arc is great from pure villain to unsure, to maybe a positive spin
[...]


Jamie was a self-centered asshole, sure, but I wouldn't say he was a pure villain.
 
2013-06-04 11:53:34 AM  

Clash City Farker: Jaime = Han Solo. The loveable ex-empire rogue traveling with a large warrior side-kick. But, he will end up dead.


I don't remember Han trying to kill any small children in the SW movies or EU...
 
2013-06-04 11:54:50 AM  

Clash City Farker: Jaime = Han Solo. The loveable ex-empire rogue traveling with a large warrior side-kick. But, he will end up dead.


Comparing Brienne to Chewbacca is not very nice to the Wookie.
 
2013-06-04 11:55:49 AM  

Flab: Jamie was a self-centered asshole, sure, but I wouldn't say he was a pure villain.


Considering his introduction to the series is him trying to kill Bran is villainous.
 
2013-06-04 11:58:00 AM  
Walder Frey just cares about self preservation, to make sure he's on the side of the victors.   He got the nickname "The Late Lord Frey" because he didn't join Ned in the Battle of the Trident against Rhaegar Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion until the battle was decided and he was sure Ned had won.    What sealed Robb's fate was losing the Karstark men from his army.   Once it became obvious that Robb was completely out manned and overwhelmed,  then Frey made his move to pact with the Lannisters.

The personnel stuff about Robb's oathbreaking was secondary.
 
2013-06-04 11:58:04 AM  

Flab: MugzyBrown: thomps: i did too right up to the moment that ned's head fell off. from that point the show became more about enjoying the massive, sweeping plot and unpredictable turns

But there is signficant character development to come, just from character's you didn't expect. (spoiler)

Jaime's arc is great from pure villain to unsure, to maybe a positive spin
[...]

Jamie was a self-centered asshole, sure, but I wouldn't say he was a pure villain.


He pushed an 8 year old from a tower window. I think it's safe to call him a villain through that point. Not standing up for his brother's wife before she got raped didn't help either. Including that could a bit of a stretch but Tywin stood up to Tytos when Walder Frey wanted Genna to marry one of his sons.  Later when some of his back story gets put in along with his general character development (losing a hand, saving Brienne, preventing genocide), he definitely becomes a lot more sympathetic. I actually started liking his character a lot more during the last two books.
 
2013-06-04 11:58:29 AM  

DamnYankees: The entire Stark thing about "honor" never made any sense. It goes all the way back to Ned, who joined a rebellion against the king because his friend's fiancee was captured. That's ok, but what Jaime did isn't? fark off.


Ned's friend's fiancee was also Ned's sister.

/sarcasm detector might be calibrated wrong.
 
2013-06-04 12:02:09 PM  

InmanRoshi: Walder Frey just cares about self preservation, to make sure he's on the side of the victors.   He got the nickname "The Late Lord Frey" because he didn't join Ned in the Battle of the Trident against Rhaegar Targaryen in Robert's Rebellion until the battle was decided and he was sure Ned had won.    What sealed Robb's fate was losing the Karstark men from his army.   Once it became obvious that Robb was completely out manned and overwhelmed,  then Frey made his move to pact with the Lannisters.

The personnel stuff about Robb's oathbreaking was secondary.


The Freys left when Robb married Jeyne, which was before he executed Lord Karstark. Obviously losing the Karstark men hurt but he was sunk before that happened.
 
2013-06-04 12:03:46 PM  
All Rob had to do was keep his pecker in his pants. Fool should have learned about mistresses.
 
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