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(The Indian Express)   65 countries now poised to take over the US   (indianexpress.com) divider line 29
    More: Cool, arms trade treaty, United States, trade agreement, ultimate strength, United Nations General Assembly, arms embargo  
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2878 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jun 2013 at 10:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-04 09:22:48 AM  
I hate this. I understand the sentiment but it's unrealistic to believe that a planet of soon-to-be 10 billion people should be expected to agree with each other.
 
2013-06-04 10:11:58 AM  
The US is an international farking laughingstock.

ecx.images-amazon.com

And rightly so.
 
2013-06-04 10:14:16 AM  
I hear all the young kids are into legs theses days. Arms were on the way out anyway.
 
2013-06-04 10:16:47 AM  
 I am positive the Russians will completely obey and respect this treaty in the same way they have completely obeyed every other treaty they ever signed with any other group or country. Being a liberal I know they are completely trust worthy.
 
2013-06-04 10:26:34 AM  
It's a good way to keep Italian made shotguns and Brazilian made pistols off the streets of America. You know, shotguns- tools of war.

On the contrary, the ATT does indeed threaten the rights and privacy of American gun owners. Signatories will be encouraged to keep information on the "end users" of arms imported into their territory and supply such information to the exporting country. Exporting nations, nearly all of which have civilian firearm control regimes far harsher than the U.S., will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account before approving a transfer of arms. And the treaty also encourages states to adopt domestic legislation to facilitate the treaty's onerous requirements. -NRA-ILA
 
2013-06-04 10:29:19 AM  

Mrbogey: It's a good way to keep Italian made shotguns and Brazilian made pistols off the streets of America. You know, shotguns- tools of war.

On the contrary, the ATT does indeed threaten the rights and privacy of American gun owners. Signatories will be encouraged to keep information on the "end users" of arms imported into their territory and supply such information to the exporting country. Exporting nations, nearly all of which have civilian firearm control regimes far harsher than the U.S., will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account before approving a transfer of arms. And the treaty also encourages states to adopt domestic legislation to facilitate the treaty's onerous requirements. -NRA-ILA


Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.
 
2013-06-04 10:41:39 AM  
It's not much of a treaty with Russia, China and India not signing it.
 
2013-06-04 11:17:40 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.


If all it says is "hey, uh, don't break the law", then what's the point of this whole exercise? I'm seriously asking, because I've seen a few of these articles but they never seem to explain what will actually be accomplished. All I've seen is essentially "this will reduce illegal arms trafficking...thru methods"
 
2013-06-04 11:23:57 AM  

the_foo: Philip Francis Queeg: Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.

If all it says is "hey, uh, don't break the law", then what's the point of this whole exercise? I'm seriously asking, because I've seen a few of these articles but they never seem to explain what will actually be accomplished. All I've seen is essentially "this will reduce illegal arms trafficking...thru methods"


Like most treaties, the agreement on a set of mutually agreed norms gives countries the ability to place more effective pressure on non-compliant nations, even if there is no explicit enforcement mechanism.
The Geneva accords for example have been successful in limiting the abuses of combatant nations. Do countries violate it? Sure. However since there is a standard set, there is a basis for taking diplomatic action against those violators. It clearly has had a positive affect.
 
2013-06-04 11:48:54 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Mrbogey: It's a good way to keep Italian made shotguns and Brazilian made pistols off the streets of America. You know, shotguns- tools of war.

On the contrary, the ATT does indeed threaten the rights and privacy of American gun owners. Signatories will be encouraged to keep information on the "end users" of arms imported into their territory and supply such information to the exporting country. Exporting nations, nearly all of which have civilian firearm control regimes far harsher than the U.S., will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account before approving a transfer of arms. And the treaty also encourages states to adopt domestic legislation to facilitate the treaty's onerous requirements. -NRA-ILA

Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.


 After considering the firearm control laws of America, we have determined that they're practically non-existent compared to all other available markets and we should increase our exports there next quarter.  Financial analysis reveals a robust and healthy trade in firearms, ammunition and accessories.  Last year alone it was an $11,000,000,000 market and its been growing rapidly since Jan 2009.  It's like they just can't get enough weapons over there.  Not only are we "approving transfer" of our domestic manufactured arms there, we're expanding production to meet the needs of the American import market.

That is what you were trying to point out to us, right Mrbogey?
 
2013-06-04 11:50:40 AM  
Subby,this has nothing to do with countires taking over the US. The US isn't going anywhere. As long as Russia and China remain obstinate our arms production will carry along at the usual clip just to maintain world-wide balance. What is a treaty worth, when half the world is burning? At that point they will cry to America for help, and we will reply, "No"
 
2013-06-04 11:54:11 AM  

Le Grand Inquisitor: . As long as Russia and China remain obstinate our arms production will carry along at the usual clip just to maintain world-wide balance.



Balance?

media.resourceinvestor.com
 
2013-06-04 12:02:15 PM  
/Completely irrelevant:

There was an old Journal of Irrepreducible Results article about the arms trade between Greece and India. It based this on the fact that statues in Greece were usually missing their arms, while statues in India had extras. This led to the acronym for the discussions on shutting down this trade: SALT (Statue Arms Limitations Talks).
 
2013-06-04 12:11:49 PM  

sabreWulf07: Philip Francis Queeg: Mrbogey: It's a good way to keep Italian made shotguns and Brazilian made pistols off the streets of America. You know, shotguns- tools of war.

On the contrary, the ATT does indeed threaten the rights and privacy of American gun owners. Signatories will be encouraged to keep information on the "end users" of arms imported into their territory and supply such information to the exporting country. Exporting nations, nearly all of which have civilian firearm control regimes far harsher than the U.S., will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account before approving a transfer of arms. And the treaty also encourages states to adopt domestic legislation to facilitate the treaty's onerous requirements. -NRA-ILA

Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.

 After considering the firearm control laws of America, we have determined that they're practically non-existent compared to all other available markets and we should increase our exports there next quarter.  Financial analysis reveals a robust and healthy trade in firearms, ammunition and accessories.  Last year alone it was an $11,000,000,000 market and its been growing rapidly since Jan 2009.  It's like they just can't get enough weapons over there.  Not only are we "approving transfer" of our domestic manufactured arms there, we're expanding production to meet the needs of the American import market.

That is what you were trying to point out to us, right Mrbogey?


You have quite the vivid imagination however unlike good writers your conjecture tends to fly in the face of how things will actually break down. The company will not be the one making export/import decisions. Politicians will. And if an anti-gun gov't in Italy gets a wild hair in its ass concerning guns it can easily harass the company and mandate a registry of the end-user.

Sarcasm about what a law allows isn't a rebut of the criticism of a law.
 
2013-06-04 12:15:10 PM  

Mrbogey: sabreWulf07: Philip Francis Queeg: Mrbogey: It's a good way to keep Italian made shotguns and Brazilian made pistols off the streets of America. You know, shotguns- tools of war.

On the contrary, the ATT does indeed threaten the rights and privacy of American gun owners. Signatories will be encouraged to keep information on the "end users" of arms imported into their territory and supply such information to the exporting country. Exporting nations, nearly all of which have civilian firearm control regimes far harsher than the U.S., will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account before approving a transfer of arms. And the treaty also encourages states to adopt domestic legislation to facilitate the treaty's onerous requirements. -NRA-ILA

Oh my gosh, they will be expected not to break the laws of other countries? How farking evil.

 After considering the firearm control laws of America, we have determined that they're practically non-existent compared to all other available markets and we should increase our exports there next quarter.  Financial analysis reveals a robust and healthy trade in firearms, ammunition and accessories.  Last year alone it was an $11,000,000,000 market and its been growing rapidly since Jan 2009.  It's like they just can't get enough weapons over there.  Not only are we "approving transfer" of our domestic manufactured arms there, we're expanding production to meet the needs of the American import market.

That is what you were trying to point out to us, right Mrbogey?

You have quite the vivid imagination however unlike good writers your conjecture tends to fly in the face of how things will actually break down. The company will not be the one making export/import decisions. Politicians will. And if an anti-gun gov't in Italy gets a wild hair in its ass concerning guns it can easily harass the company and mandate a registry of the end-user.

Sarcasm about what a law allows isn't a rebut of the cr ...


So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?
 
2013-06-04 12:27:39 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: sabreWulf07:

...

So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?

I think his point was more about the Italian government being able to demand that foreign buyers of Italian guns be put on some sort of registry. But they could probably do that now if they wanted.
 
2013-06-04 12:44:47 PM  
fark the UN
 
2013-06-04 12:48:57 PM  
" It prohibits the transfer of conventional weapons if they violate arms embargoes or if they promote acts of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes, and if they could be used in attacks on civilians or civilian buildings such as schools and hospitals. "

so no more arms to Israel?

/ducks
 
2013-06-04 12:51:10 PM  

the_foo: Philip Francis Queeg: sabreWulf07: ...

So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?

I think his point was more about the Italian government being able to demand that foreign buyers of Italian guns be put on some sort of registry. But they could probably do that now if they wanted.


Well, if that's the case his reading comprehension is a bit lacking.

will be encouraged to take the firearm control laws of an importing country into account
 
2013-06-04 01:09:21 PM  

Le Grand Inquisitor: Subby,this has nothing to do with countires taking over the US. The US isn't going anywhere. As long as Russia and China remain obstinate our arms production will carry along at the usual clip just to maintain world-wide balance. What is a treaty worth, when half the world is burning? At that point they will cry to America for help, and we will reply, "No"


I think you missed the joke about how the fringe right (which you may or may not be a part of, who knows?) thinks that this bill will ensure that UN troops will walk down main st. USA and take all our guns because blather blather blather fake patriotism blather blather nationalistic tendencies blather blather
 
2013-06-04 01:12:11 PM  

Le Grand Inquisitor: Subby,this has nothing to do with countires taking over the US. The US isn't going anywhere. As long as Russia and China remain obstinate our arms production will carry along at the usual clip just to maintain world-wide balance. What is a treaty worth, when half the world is burning? At that point they will cry to America for help, and we will reply, "No"


I have no idea what this headline is about or what everyone in this thread is talking about.
 
2013-06-04 01:13:34 PM  
So, today is one of the days when the UN is the Evul Black Helicopter New World Order Freemason Illuminati Trilateral Commission Chemtrails Conspiracy?  Funny, I thought the days that end in Y were the ones on which the UN is the Strongly Worded Letter Gang that Can't Shoot Straight.
 
2013-06-04 01:29:09 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?


That's not what this treaty is about.

It's more like "well if America won't register all sales of the imported firearms then I guess we can't allow the exporting of weapons to America per the ATT".
 
2013-06-04 02:04:23 PM  

Mrbogey: Philip Francis Queeg: So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?

That's not what this treaty is about.

It's more like "well if America won't register all sales of the imported firearms then I guess we can't allow the exporting of weapons to America per the ATT".


You just quoted language that states exporters are supposed to consider the importing country's laws, not their own.  So the result of America's lax gun control laws will be a reduction in foreign imports because foreign governments have stricter laws at home?  That's not what the treaty says.  If foreign countries want to voluntarily bow out of the largest arms market on the planet and hurt their own GDP because they don't trust their own citizenry with arms at home there's really nothing we should do about that.  Opportunity in the market will be seized by manufacturers in other countries.
 
2013-06-04 02:36:07 PM  

Mrbogey: Philip Francis Queeg: So you think companies that export weapons to Italy should be free to ignore Italian law?

That's not what this treaty is about.

It's more like "well if America won't register all sales of the imported firearms then I guess we can't allow the exporting of weapons to America per the ATT".


And what do you think prevents that if this treaty isn't accepted? Do you believe foreign nations are under some obligation to export guns to the US?
 
2013-06-04 02:52:21 PM  

sabreWulf07: You just quoted language that states exporters are supposed to consider the importing country's laws, not their own. So the result of America's lax gun control laws will be a reduction in foreign imports because foreign governments have stricter laws at home? That's not what the treaty says. If foreign countries want to voluntarily bow out of the largest arms market on the planet and hurt their own GDP because they don't trust their own citizenry with arms at home there's really nothing we should do about that. Opportunity in the market will be seized by manufacturers in other countries.


Likewise, if Planned Parenthood doesn't want to uphold the laws of a state and have admitting privileges to a hospital from the clinic they wish to open then other abortion providers will seize the opportunity.

You see, on one issue I'm sure you see the shell game being played while in the other you're being willfully obtuse.

Philip Francis Queeg: And what do you think prevents that if this treaty isn't accepted? Do you believe foreign nations are under some obligation to export guns to the US?


I can see a carefully played game that ends in the US adopting a gun registry. That the strongest supporters of the treaty are those critical of gun ownership says most of what needs to be said.
 
2013-06-04 02:57:55 PM  

Mrbogey: Philip Francis Queeg: And what do you think prevents that if this treaty isn't accepted? Do you believe foreign nations are under some obligation to export guns to the US?

I can see a carefully played game that ends in the US adopting a gun registry. That the strongest supporters of the treaty are those critical of gun ownership says most of what needs to be said.


So you have no rational basis for your opposition and concede that the treaty does not have provisions which would limit gun ownership in the United States. Do you generally make judgements in such a flawed manner?
 
2013-06-04 05:09:40 PM  
More business for this guy.

www.wildsound.ca\
 
2013-06-05 03:35:40 AM  

jwilson07: I am positive the Russians will completely obey and respect this treaty in the same way they have completely obeyed every other treaty they ever signed with any other group or country. Being a liberal I know they are completely trust worthy.


If you really were a liberal you would know that there is nothing trust worthy about extremists like Putin and his crew.
 
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