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(Newser)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been digging up some less-than-flattering background information about Trayvon Martin-but one story that made the rounds Friday, turns out not to be true   (newser.com) divider line 589
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman  
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16751 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2013 at 1:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-04 12:26:04 AM

cegorach: Yes, a young black male is statistically more likely to be possibly involved in a crime based on certain environmental factors.


Statistically more likely to be a victim, too.
 
2013-06-04 12:26:12 AM

soporific: Elegy: Zimmerman is going to walk. Anyone want to wager?

If the choice is solely between murder and acquittal, then he'll probably walk.

Just because he walks on murder charges doesn't mean he gets away with it. The civil case will not go well against him.


Actually...Zimm looks to win the civil case.  It will be easier for Trayvon violent past to get admitted into trial...and...the Martins and their atty have pretty much slandered Zimm throughout the media.   Zill could win via countersuing the Martins
 
2013-06-04 12:32:02 AM

mjbok: Please stop referring to Martin as a kid. He was 17. Kid implies a child. Though not legally an adult, he was damn close.


He was 17 for 3 weeks before his death.

Quit shading the truth.
 
2013-06-04 12:34:51 AM

bubo_sibiricus: Tatsuma: Sure, why not? If I get bored, I'll just get a restraining order.

But this would be you admitting that you'd be threatened.  Restraining orders (peace orders in Canada and the Empire) are easy to get, but they have to put down at least one reason why you want one.

Following people makes them feel threatened.  Trayvon Martin obviously felt threatened by the threatening and erratic behavior of the pretend-cop.



Just quit it.

The standard for getting a restraining order is not the same as the circumstances that justify force in self-defense.  For starters, self-defense requires that there be a threat of injury, and that threat be reasonably believed to be imminent.

Restraining orders (depending on the type and jurisdiction and other factors) can be obtained for things like someone telephoning you too often.  Or tossing unwanted objects in your driveway.  Letting the air out of your tires.  Yelling at you about the height of your shrubbery.  Restraining orders focus on (a) patterns of behavior (i.e., occurring over more than one incident), and (b) that are designed to annoy.

Self-defense is the right to repel and prevent force that causes (or is likely to cause) injury.  Sometimes that overlaps with the subject of restraining orders (to prevent the kind of contact and proximity where violence is likely), but in most cases, they don't.

People don't often go on the Internet making all sorts of uninformed proclamations about how neurosurgery is best performed.  You don't see many people pretending to tell mechanics how to fix a transmission.  There aren't a lot of blanket-yet-totally-ignorant assertions being made to propulsion engineers about the designs of near-earth orbit vehicles.

Why, then, do the people with the least sophisticated understanding of criminal law feel the need to utter the very dumbest declarations on the topic?  There's no shame in not being a criminal law expert.  But why the need to pretend that you are?
 
2013-06-04 12:36:57 AM

Without Fail: He was 17 for 3 weeks before his death.

Quit shading the truth.


I said he was 17.  I said he was damn close to being an adult.  One is a fact, one is an opinion.  Reverse the roles in the case, is he tried as an adult?
 
2013-06-04 12:37:19 AM
So people who are any part white are considered white now?  So we can claim the president?

...
 / we all know if he had done something to uplift society, he would be latino, as he identifies himself.  Since they can blame this on the "evil white man's prejudices" they are going to media firestorm the hell out of his whiteness.
 
2013-06-04 12:39:22 AM

I sound fat: So people who are any part white are considered white now?  So we can claim the president?

...
 / we all know if he had done something to uplift society, he would be latino, as he identifies himself.  Since they can blame this on the "evil white man's prejudices" they are going to media firestorm the hell out of his whiteness.


If Zim was the victim and Whitey McWhiterson was the shooter, you can guarantee he would be referred to as hispanic.
 
2013-06-04 12:40:13 AM

bubo_sibiricus: But this would be you admitting that you'd be threatened. Restraining orders (peace orders in Canada and the Empire) are easy to get, but they have to put down at least one reason why you want one.

Following people makes them feel threatened. Trayvon Martin obviously felt threatened by the threatening and erratic behavior of the pretend-cop.


We're not talking about a guy following me once, we're talking about a guy following me every day.
 
2013-06-04 01:15:31 AM

nekom: None of this is the slightest bit relevant to the case.   Was he a good person?  Did he smoke weed?  None of that matters.  The question is whether or not a self defense claim is valid.  It doesn't matter if he was a gangster or a choir boy.


Of course it matters.  If he was a choir boy, the jury is less likely to believe he instigated the battery.  The jury will be more likely to believe the battery was initiated by a gangster.
 
2013-06-04 01:22:32 AM

Antimatter: This still sounds like first degree murder to me.  He inserted himself into the situation, escalated it, and then killed the kid when the kid tried to defend himself.

The kids background is not relevant to this case.  All that should matter is the order of events, none of which favor GZ.


If he planned to execute him, then he would have had his gun out when he was' hunting him down like a dog'  When hunting a dog, you dont let the dog get close enough to bite you first.

There is no first degree murder even remotely possible.
 
2013-06-04 01:26:45 AM

coco ebert: Unless Trayvon Martin jumped on Zimmerman's car and forced him to get out, how could he be the one that initiated the confrontation? Doesn't the 9/11 call where the operator asks Zimmerman to stay in his car show who initiated what?


Do you have a link where someone told him to stay in his car?  No.
 
2013-06-04 01:41:59 AM
And the Chinese Jewish Redneck judge has it:
3 for the prosecutions emotional pleadings to convict.
7 for the defense's facts on file, and of course the 2 point loss for failing to deploy mud in the proper direction.
Currently we favor Zim walks over the warm invitations of the torch and pitchfork crowd.

BETS?
There is a line in Vegas.
I'm in.
/FT
\FM
?
/FYT
 
2013-06-04 02:06:04 AM

Mrbogey: Three Crooked Squirrels: Just like raping a slutty girl.

Not in the least.

If a guy walks around hitting people, his behavior is relevant to whether he went and hit one specific person. Your analogy would have to be tweaked to make it into whether or not a girl who has falsely accused people of rape is accusing someone of rape.

Three Crooked Squirrels: If he attacked Zimmerman, make the case.

And he is by using Trayvon's past propensity for violence along with how there were no wounds on either indicating that Zimmerman did anything to provoke Trayvon.

Three Crooked Squirrels: But Martin's past did not influence Zimmerman's actions, because Zimmerman was unaware of Martin's past. It had no bearing on Zimmerman's state of mind.

Unfortunately for Zimmerman. If he had known how violent Trayvon was, he'd have given him a wider berth.

Likewise, Trayvon didn't know that years ago Zimmerman got into an argument with some cops and yet that was blared everywhere in order to get everyone to believe the hispanic guy was a violent man.

Peter von Nostrand: Pretty sure you mean the let's not murder teenagers for walking at night wearing a hoodie crowd

Nobody murdered anyone for wearing a hoodie. You got to be trolling with that comment.

ongbok: So Zimmerman chasing him doesn't justify him defending himself ?

If only track star Zimmerman could not have caught the parapalegic Martin who only had a minute or so headstart. If only...

pxlboy: I meant Rodney King case.

/moron

I guarantee you morons will be proclaiming how it's legal to kill black people in Florida. The butthurt will be tremendous because the Social Justice Warriors live vicariously through St. Trayvon.


I personally don't care one way or the other how it turns out.

I remember seeing the riots on television and I certainly hope something like that doesn't happen again. No one else needs to get hurt by angry mobs.

Also, I tagged moron on my own post because I wrote the wrong name: OJ Simpson instead of Rodney King. My point is simply that I hope there are not riots, but there might be if Zimmerman walks.
 
2013-06-04 03:30:35 AM

Bender The Offender: Tatsuma: bubo_sibiricus: I'm going to go to your house, wait outside until you come out and follow you around once you hit public property.

Because it's my right.

Sure, why not? If I get bored, I'll just get a restraining order.

You think you're going to get a restraining order against someone that is just quietly following you on public property who has never offered you any threat of physical violence or harm? Did you go to the Skinnyhead school of law? That's absolutely farking stupid.


But you see, what Tats is saying is that it is OK for someone to exercise their "right" to follow someone so long as it is someone else.
 
2013-06-04 07:27:25 AM

mjbok: Reverse the roles in the case, is he tried as an adult?


I'm sure he would like to be. But some asshole shot him because he was black.
 
2013-06-04 08:18:03 AM

Without Fail: I'm sure he would like to be. But some asshole shot him because he was black.


Someone other than Zim shot him?  Say what you want about him, but being black is not why Martin got shot.  It may be why he was followed, but that makes sense.  There had been a series of break-ins in the the area.  These break-ins had been down by black men.  Zim sees a black man he doesn't recognize.  That's not profiling, that's putting two and two together.

There is no proof that Zim is a racist, unless you count the call to the police.  Are you talking about the call to the police dispatcher?  The one that was edited by NBC to make him look like a racist.
 
2013-06-04 10:09:50 AM

pxlboy: Also, I tagged moron on my own post because I wrote the wrong name: OJ Simpson instead of Rodney King. My point is simply that I hope there are not riots, but there might be if Zimmerman walks.


It was my intent to make a comment on riots themselves. I could have used any other synonym but since you used it, it must have been in the top of my brain's word queue.
 
2013-06-04 10:19:25 AM

Without Fail: If I ever see Zimmerman on the street, I'll feel threatened.

Anyone would.


I wouldn't.
 
2013-06-04 11:34:03 AM

poot_rootbeer: NightOwl2255: TM asks, WTF are you follow me? GZ says something like there's been break-ins. TM says fark this and turns to leave. GZ grabs TM and says, you're not leaving while lifting up his shirt to show TM his firearm. At this point GZ has committed an assault and battery and TM would be justified to be in fear of his life. In that case he would be justified in beating GZ nearly to death, knowing that he's armed, and to eliminate the threat, just as in shooting till the threat is eliminated.

Why are we writing Zimmerman/Martin fanfic now?

There are multiple accounts of what happened, and they will be evaluated as part of the murder trial.  The events you described are not supported by any of the accounts.


Not really big on context, are you? Did you just entirely miss the part where the entire scenario was in response to Elegy's question; "How is it morally right to continue to beat someone that cannot defend themselves and is screaming for help?". It was never offered as as an actual account of the encounter.
 
2013-06-04 11:47:38 AM

WillofJ2: Lsherm: JWideman: It doesn't matter if Martin attacked him first, because he initiated the conflict by pursuing him.

No, that's absolutely not true.  It is not legal to start a fight with someone because they are walking behind you.  Only if Zimmerman hit him first could he claim self-defense.

This is the insane part to me, the amount of people that think you have a right to physically assault someone because they are following you or say something you dont like or ask a question you dont like, you do have the right to ignore them keep walking and call the police, if you feel threatened, or just to have them come check it out.


Obviously you've never lived in NYC, Philly, Miami, or any other big city in the US where someone following you at night means you're in for it. And Martin lived in Miami, he was only visiting Sanford. As for calling 911, have you not heard how Miami police treat black people? There was no way Martin was going to call them. It is really hard to change your attitudes just because you're in a different place.
Finally, SYG means you DO have the right to assault someone because they are following or threatening you. I agree the law is very controversial, even without this case, but that's the law in a nutshell. Florida doesn't have a Fark tag because it's popular; it has one because it's crazy.

On another topic: the Murder 2 charge. I recently read that it requires another felony to go along with it. So what other crime does the prosecution think Zimmerman was committing?
 
2013-06-04 01:02:05 PM

JWideman: WillofJ2: Lsherm: JWideman: It doesn't matter if Martin attacked him first, because he initiated the conflict by pursuing him.

No, that's absolutely not true.  It is not legal to start a fight with someone because they are walking behind you.  Only if Zimmerman hit him first could he claim self-defense.

This is the insane part to me, the amount of people that think you have a right to physically assault someone because they are following you or say something you dont like or ask a question you dont like, you do have the right to ignore them keep walking and call the police, if you feel threatened, or just to have them come check it out.

Obviously you've never lived in NYC, Philly, Miami, or any other big city in the US where someone following you at night means you're in for it. And Martin lived in Miami, he was only visiting Sanford. As for calling 911, have you not heard how Miami police treat black people? There was no way Martin was going to call them. It is really hard to change your attitudes just because you're in a different place.
Finally, SYG means you DO have the right to assault someone because they are following or threatening you. I agree the law is very controversial, even without this case, but that's the law in a nutshell. Florida doesn't have a Fark tag because it's popular; it has one because it's crazy.

On another topic: the Murder 2 charge. I recently read that it requires another felony to go along with it. So what other crime does the prosecution think Zimmerman was committing?


1. Zimmerman's case has nothing to do with SYG at the moment. He will be basing his case on Florida's self-defense law, NOT the SYG law.

The SYG law says that anyone involved in using deadly force can have a pretrial hearing. If the judge finds at the hearing that the defendant acted in self defense, then the defendent wins immunity from civil and criminal prosecution.

Zimmerman waived his right to a SYG hearing before the criminal trial. His defense is based solely on the self-defense laws of Florida, which are broadly similar to many other states self-defense laws.

So why did Zimmerman waive his right to a SYG hearing? Tactics.

This case has been a national story since day one. Add that pressure to the fact that, at a SYG hearing, the burden of proof lies on the defendant, and Zimmerman probably had a slim chance of convincing a judge to rule in his favor - the judge will bounce it to a jury for decorums sake alone, and that would only prejudice his chances at trial (through the media attention).

More importantly, if Zimmerman can beat the murder 2 trial with a claim of self-defense, he can THEN ask for his SYG hearing, and use his verdict of not guilty from the criminal case to win SYG immunity from the Martin's civil case.

So no, you are wrong. SYG currently has little to do with this case, as it has not been invoked by the defendant. It is simple self-defense, and Florida's self defense laws are no different than other no duty to retreat states.

2. 2nd degree murder. You are thinking of accomplice felony murder, which is also 2nd degree murder. You get charged with this when an accomplice murders someone while you are committing a felony together.

What the prosecution is charging Zimmerman with is "murder with a deprived mind," which occurs "when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life."

So killing you girlfriend in a fit of rage by beheading her is Murder 2 (this actually happened in Florida recently). Killing someone that gets into a fender bender with you is murder 2. And killing someone in a fit of racial paranoia is murder 2, which is what the prosecution is seeking to prove Zimmerman guilty of.

All of that make sense?
 
2013-06-04 01:03:46 PM
Tatsuma:
Someone has a right to follow you in the street and look at what you're doing as long as they are not trespassing. This is not instigating anything.

Yea it is

If you follow me in the street watching me with the deliberate intent to observe me it would creep me the fark out.
If I did the same to you it would probably at least feel mildly intimidating (not getting all ITG on you but Im a big and physically fit man, most people find me a touch intimidating even when I am trying not to, which is usually what I am trying to achieve)

in·sti·gat·ed,  in·sti·gat·ing. 1.  to cause by incitement;  foment:  toinstigate a quarrel. 2.  to urge,  provoke,  or incite to some action or course:  toinstigate

Following him is passively aggresive and somewhat intimidating. It was possibly intended to be intimidating. I doubt it was just curiosity.
 
2013-06-04 01:08:47 PM

Without Fail: I'm sure he would like to be. But some asshole shot him because he was black.


The funny thing is, you don't even realize that you're the racist in this thread.
 
2013-06-04 01:10:30 PM

Nutsac_Jim: There is no first degree murder even remotely possible


I will leave it to the court
ANYTHING is remotely possible, do not be so naive

/ Does not believe it was first degree murder, it was murder though
 
2013-06-04 01:12:03 PM

mjbok: That's not profiling, that's putting two and two together


Isn't that the definition of profiling ?
 
2013-06-04 01:13:31 PM
I have a customer that lives in a wealthy neighborhood.  The neighbors are snooty and nosy.  If I arrive early, I park down the street from my customer's house, and listen to the radio or play with my phone for ten or fifteen minutes.

The last time this happened, a large woman, outweighing me, struck the window on my vehicle with her hand.  I was afraid.  She asked me a bunch of questions about who I was and what I was doing, parked legally on a city street.  She wouldn't leave me alone.  She was harassing me and threatening me.

So, I got out and curb stomped her face.

That will teach her to be asking me questions.
 
2013-06-04 01:31:48 PM

cegorach: Tatsuma: nekom: I suspect he will, and he probably should under the law. I don't triumph in that in any way whatsoever, though. A young man is dead who didn't need to die and didn't deserve to die. There are no winners here at all.

I agree with this post, except for the 'didn't deserve to die'.

If he indeed initiated the assault on Zimmerman, was on top of him and hitting his head on the pavement, his actions absolutely justified with Zimmerman did.

What's your view on responding with violence if an entire ethnic group moves into your homeland at the behest of foreign powers and then proceeds to force you into second class citizenship?

/don't worry, it wasn't really a question but a sardonic comment, feel free to press your 'ANTI SEMITE' button as always for that warm glow of moral rectitude


I thought you were talking about the Mexicans.
 
2013-06-04 01:46:24 PM

blarkseymark: So, I got out and curb stomped her face.

That will teach her to be asking me questions


ROFL

DAMN I hope you were not serious but that was farking funny
 
2013-06-04 01:52:19 PM

cegorach: What's your view on responding with violence if an entire ethnic group moves into your homeland at the behest of foreign powers and then proceeds to force you into second class citizenship?


ask the people who where in israel before "god gave the land to the jews" after they spent 40 years wandering what would have taken any other race about 40 days hehehehe
Oh wait, they dont exist anymore, genocide is a biatch
 
2013-06-04 01:58:37 PM

Tatsuma: Now watch how many people blame them for this


remember Canaan or STFU you racist piece of shiat
 
2013-06-04 02:17:57 PM
I am glad it entertained.  But, alas, no, the last part wasn't true.  Since I live in a society where this person was doing something irritating, but in no way illegal, I told the lady she would have to "live with it", sat there for a few more minutes to prove a point, then started my car and drove away.  It doesn't make for as entertaining a story, I'll admit.

While I would have liked to have "Martinized" her face for "harassing" me, I am afraid that if she rightfully shot me for it, I would not have the army of supporters defending my actions as heroic and justified.

Sometimes, life just isn't fair.

I am afraid that I would have just gone down in history as a thug that curb stomped a nosy neighborhood watch lady.
 
2013-06-04 02:30:08 PM
I am not semite, my ancestors never eradicated a semite race. We tried but Rommel succeded in defeating us. Tatsuma's race has eradicated more semites than any attempt we have deployed. Tatsuma is an anti semite. I will be called an anti semite for saying so, this is the normal zionist approach. Most jews are not zionist most of them are the most impressive intellectuals I have ever met (I travel far Tatsuma is a child)
Israel is shiat land, nothing in the torah requires him to stay there or be there. Tatsuma is a fraud tp himslef, the most deplorable of frauds. STAND your ground coward, you will not, you know your position is weak.

From my cuture

Kia toa Kia tu

From your culture

אתה פחדן
 
2013-06-04 02:39:47 PM

Slartibartfaster: Following him is passively aggresive and somewhat intimidating. It was possibly intended to be intimidating.


Being "creeped out" by someone's actions is not an actionable event.

Nor does Zimmerman's presumed asshole behavior justify Martin's alleged physical assault.

Nor does any of the preceding events leading up to the point where Martin was allegedly on top of Zimmerman beating him matter.

The only thing that matters in a court of law was whether Zimmerman could reasonably believe he was in danger of death or grevious bodily harm. If he was, then self-defense is a legal defense exonerating him of wrongdoing. So the key thing that the jury must determine, is who was on top.

If, however, Zimmerman was NOT on top, or could not reasonably believe that he was in immediate danger of death or bodily harm (say Martin gave hime a beating and let up, and then Zimmerman shot him or something) then it was not self defense, and he can be found guilty of a homocide charge.

All of the nonsense about who was a good person and who was a bad person, and who 'instigated' and who is which race and all the rest is just people trying to affix their particular flag to this case, and none of it belongs. None of us has a "stake" in this case.

And frankly, I find it disapointing that so many people are treating this like some sort of modern day Klan lynching. This was most likely two people with a foolish excess of machismo and bravado who ended up in a pointless altercation that became a life and death situation. To try to equate it to an actual hate crime, is to undermine the severity of actual hate crimes.
 
2013-06-04 02:44:41 PM

Slartibartfaster: I am not semite, my ancestors never eradicated a semite race. We tried but Rommel succeded in defeating us. Tatsuma's race has eradicated more semites than any attempt we have deployed. Tatsuma is an anti semite. I will be called an anti semite for saying so, this is the normal zionist approach. Most jews are not zionist most of them are the most impressive intellectuals I have ever met (I travel far Tatsuma is a child)
Israel is shiat land, nothing in the torah requires him to stay there or be there. Tatsuma is a fraud tp himslef, the most deplorable of frauds. STAND your ground coward, you will not, you know your position is weak.

From my cuture

Kia toa Kia tu

From your culture

אתה פחדן


wha
 
2013-06-04 03:05:46 PM

Elegy: ongbok: BojanglesPaladin: ongbok: So if you are running away from a person, and they chase you down you won't do anything?

I love the complete dishonesty about this that the pro Zimmerman crowd brings to the argument.

What exactly are you arguing here? That *IF* Zimmerman, did in fact "chase" Martin down, that Martin was justified in administering a beating?
(and that while Martin was justified in giving a beating for being "chased", that Zimmerman, was NOT justified in shooting Martin even while being beaten, and should have just taken that beating, because after all - he chased a guy?

I think Zimmerman is to bolame here just as much as Martin, but yo9u seem to be arguing that Zimmerman following Martin gave Martin carte blanche to do whatever. Is that your position? Could you clarify?

This went past Zimmerman following him. At a point Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman, clearly showing he feared Zimmerman and was trying to avoid a confrontation with him. Zimmerman even said he is running away on the 911 call. Zimmerman chased him and caught him. At the point Martin had reason to believe that his life was in danger, and he had every right to defend himself.

Don't tell me you wouldn't do the same thing if you decided to run away from a person and they caught up to you.

Or are you going to deny that Trayvon ran away from him?

That doesn't matter. How many times do we have to go over this. The only things that matter are:

-Zimmerman's story that he was on the ground screaming for help while Martin pummeled him

-Zimmerman's copious physical injuries and defensive wounds versus Martin's none (barring the gunshot wound)

-The witness that corroborate it was Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help and getting pummeled for Martin.

Answer me this: why does Zimmerman get all the blame for following Martin, yet Martin gets none of the blame for continuing to beat on Zimmerman? Because it would seem to me that (following a person



Furthermore...
 
2013-06-04 03:25:17 PM

AngryDragon: CrazyCracka420: Elegy: CrazyCracka420: To the people saying Zimmerman had injuries so that proves his case...logic isn't your strong suit.  You can start a fight with someone, and still get your ass kicked.  Just because you get your ass handed to you, doesn't mean you couldn't have still been the aggressor.

Just because you are the aggressor, doesn't mean you can't claim self defense.

Lrn2law

And it's a ridiculous law and why "stand your ground" is a farking retarded.

Start a fight
Get ass kicked
Pull out a gun
Shoot the person you attacked
?
Profit

And here's the crux.   THIS is why this case is such a big farking deal.  People who are for more gun control HATE stand-your-ground.  It makes perfect sense.

If someone attacks you, you have the ability to defend yourself with lethal force if you are at risk of death or great bodily harm.  PERIOD.  That's what stand-your-ground is.  It is not all of these paranoid fantasies of people instigating fights and then shooting the other guys and yelling "He was coming right at us!" South Park style and getting away with it.

Martin wasn't simply warding off an attacker.  He was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head into the concrete.  Was it smart for Zimmerman to follow him?  Maybe not.  Did that justify a severe beatdown?  Absolutely not.  Was Zimmerman justified in shooting?  According to the evidence we have seen so far, yes he was.

This case is idiotic.  If it hadn't been for the irresponsible reporting at the outset, this would have been a page 3 story.


So how did he get his gun out if he's getting his head bashed into the ground?  Wasn't the shot fired while standing up?
 
2013-06-04 03:29:27 PM

Tman144: AiryAnne: Tatsuma: Triple Oak: You can tell the defense is trending towards implausible white superiority,

He's not white when will farking idiots try to pretend that he is? For fark's sake this is a white guy?

[i.imgur.com image 640x360]

You know that media parody poster about Glocks? That's how this works. Anyone accused against a black man is white.

White (Ancestors from western Europe)
White (Parent from Mexico, Parent from Spain)
White (Asian who attends predominantly white school and is named Jeff)
White (One black parent, one white white parent and raised in a predominantly white neighborhood)
White (Not black)
White (Hispanic)
White (Jew accused of a crime and is named Jeff)

Everyone but the Asian in that list is white. This isn't "das Vaterland," we're all mutts here.


Do try and remember the waju you're responding to, old boy.
 
2013-06-04 03:53:07 PM

nekom: Tatsuma: nekom: I suspect he will, and he probably should under the law. I don't triumph in that in any way whatsoever, though. A young man is dead who didn't need to die and didn't deserve to die. There are no winners here at all.

I agree with this post, except for the 'didn't deserve to die'.

If he indeed initiated the assault on Zimmerman, was on top of him and hitting his head on the pavement, his actions absolutely justified with Zimmerman did.

But if he were brought up on assault charges, he would NOT face the death penalty for that.  Did Martin attack Zimmerman?  Very possibly, we'll never know the whole truth.  Was that a mistake?  You bet!  A certain degree of blame does certainly fall on Martin for making a few poor decisions, but nothing that he ought to have been killed for.  Both parties made errors in judgment.  The kid didn't need to die, and it's pretty sad.  While I don't believe  a murder charge is warranted, Zimmerman was WAY over-zealous.


I believe a murder charge is warranted, and the death penalty
an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth
you killed a man
now we'll kill you
 
2013-06-04 04:29:38 PM

Panatheist: nekom: Tatsuma: nekom: I suspect he will, and he probably should under the law. I don't triumph in that in any way whatsoever, though. A young man is dead who didn't need to die and didn't deserve to die. There are no winners here at all.

I agree with this post, except for the 'didn't deserve to die'.

If he indeed initiated the assault on Zimmerman, was on top of him and hitting his head on the pavement, his actions absolutely justified with Zimmerman did.

But if he were brought up on assault charges, he would NOT face the death penalty for that.  Did Martin attack Zimmerman?  Very possibly, we'll never know the whole truth.  Was that a mistake?  You bet!  A certain degree of blame does certainly fall on Martin for making a few poor decisions, but nothing that he ought to have been killed for.  Both parties made errors in judgment.  The kid didn't need to die, and it's pretty sad.  While I don't believe  a murder charge is warranted, Zimmerman was WAY over-zealous.

I believe a murder charge is warranted, and the death penalty
an eye for an eye
a tooth for a tooth
you killed a man
now we'll kill you


This is exactly the kind of vigilante mob mentality that started this whole scenario.
 
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