Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Newser)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been digging up some less-than-flattering background information about Trayvon Martin-but one story that made the rounds Friday, turns out not to be true   (newser.com) divider line 589
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman  
•       •       •

16770 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2013 at 1:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



589 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-06-03 02:55:58 PM  

Sultan Of Herf: For concealed carry folks, this is a lesson in what not to do. You dont grab your gun and follow people. Especially after the police dispatcher tells you officers are on the way. Stay the hell in your house, car, etc.

For the little brat teens, the thug types, etc...be careful who you "step up" to, they might be carrying a gun, and it might end badly for you.


I heartily approve of both sentences.
 
2013-06-03 02:56:17 PM  

Heathen: bulldg4life:

Heathen: eh, single kick/push off with your legs..person is going backwards, draw gun, shoot, energy + gravity take care of the impressive part

He did this fast enough to shoot Martin from 18" away?

not saying how it happened, just pointing it out that it's more than possible.  so even from 18 inches away, Martin could have started coming back at Z, Z sticks his knees out to block incoming haymakers, fire, energy + gravity take care of the impressive part.

just so you know, I don't care.


The forensic report said something like Martin was shot at "intermediate range, 1"-18"" based on the powder burns on the hoody.

The autopsy report showed that Martin had powder burns on his skin.

So claiming the gun was fired from 18" is cherry picking the data, kinda like reading a poll the has "Mitt Romney at 48 points (+/- 10 points)" and claiming that Mitt Romney is clearly in the lead with 58%.

The physical evidence suggests the gun was fired at near point blank range, as it would be in a struggle.
 
2013-06-03 02:56:44 PM  
I can't understand why this story is still in the news, particularly since the original "story" put out by MSNBC had been debunked.  The evidence suggests Martin was on top of him and caving his face in when he shot.  I don't see how any reasonable person could say that shooting wasn't justified.
 
2013-06-03 02:57:16 PM  

Antimatter: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did GZ, or did he not, get out of a car, confront and then chase down a fleeing kid, while he himself was armed with a deadly weapon?

TM isn't some thug.  Someone was chasing him late at night, to do god knows what to him, so IMHO, he had every right to fight back when escape was no longer possible.  GZ never shoudl have inserted himself into the situation to begin with.


It's a matter of opinion here.  I believe he was a thug, you don't.  He made a mistake and attacked someone with a gun.
 
2013-06-03 02:57:19 PM  

OnlyM3: nekom: None of this is the slightest bit relevant to the case. Was he a good person? Did he smoke weed? None of that matters. The question is whether or not a self defense claim is valid. It doesn't matter if he was a gangster or a choir boy.
BS. If he has a history of beating people who "disrespected" him (like the individual he bragged about beating on twitter) and a history of jumping people who he feels are "snitching" on him, like he bragged about in IM's to his wanna be gang-stu buddies, it does lend credence to the story that he jumped some "white guy" he felt was disrespecting and snitching on him.


Disrespecting him and snitching on him? Do you even know what those words mean? He attacked a guy for chasing him.
Big difference. And even if the kid was a career criminal the fact that he is on the street and not in jail means he is afforded the same protection by law as anybody else.
 
2013-06-03 02:57:27 PM  

Phinn: Antimatter: By bearing arms and escalating the confrontation, GZ should automatically be in the wrong here.

You are wrong on both the facts and the law.  The proposition you just asserted has absolutely no basis in law whatsoever. 

ProfessorOhki: isn't aggravated assault a felony?

Prove that Zimmerman committed aggravated assault, please.


He committed a crime by inserting himself into a situation that he had no business being in, and then running down a victim trying to escape, while armed with a deadly weapon.

That sounds like he planned to do violence to me, and self defense cannot be premeditated like that.
 
2013-06-03 02:57:43 PM  

kortex: Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug will be in the prison system.


You're getting more and more reasonable with every post.
 
2013-06-03 02:57:53 PM  

ongbok: It was about 18 seconds. And the FBI was unable to determine who's voice it was because they couldn't match it to Zimmerman's and they didn't have a long enough sample from Martin.


The screaming lasted at least 45 seconds.

If GZ was not the one screaming, perhaps TM was in the habit of screaming like a girl while beating people senseless. The prosecution might bring in witnesses to some of his MMA exploits to verify this.
 
2013-06-03 02:58:39 PM  

kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug will be in the prison system.


So baseless accusations are grounds for muder in your eyes?
 
2013-06-03 02:59:37 PM  

Antimatter: Did GZ, or did he not, get out of a car, confront and then chase down a fleeing kid, while he himself was armed with a deadly weapon?



He got out of his car, followed on foot, and pursued a fleeing teenager while attempting to report that teenager's location to the police.

There is no evidence, other than Zimmerman's statement and DeeDee the earwitness, as to who confronted whom, but the statement of DeeDee, coached and delayed and untrustworthy as it is, still says that Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, that Zimmerman responded with a question, and that a physical struggle followed.

Following and observing suspicious people is not illegal, nor does it constitute a threat of imminent injury sufficient to justify force in self-defense.

The fact that Zimmerman was armed with a deadly weapon does not change the law that defines when self-defense is legal.
 
2013-06-03 02:59:48 PM  

Tatsuma: MFAWG: Except that Zimmerman has already stated that he initiated the confrontation.

No he did not. He said Martin attacked him.


Yes. He. Did.

He confronted Martin while he was still in the car, and then got out of the car and followed Martin up the footpath.
 
2013-06-03 03:00:04 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug will be in the prison system.

So baseless ...


Forget it, hes probably some stormfronter who is just glad to see another dead black youth.  No reason to debate him further.
 
2013-06-03 03:00:15 PM  

ZeroCorpse: It doesn't take much to realize you need an excuse, slam the back of your head against the pavement, and make up a pretty good story


pjmedia.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

Twice...and then broke his own nose.
 
2013-06-03 03:00:21 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug will be in the prison system.

So baseless ...


Self Defense, not murder.  I believe he was justified in the shooting.  No one knows though.
 
2013-06-03 03:00:28 PM  

Triple Oak [TotalFark]

You can tell the defense is trending towards implausible white superiority, saying the victim was a bad person instead of proving the defendant's innocence.
I see the tf badge indicating a lack of basic comprehension, so I'll help you out.

Who exactly has the "burden of proof"?
 
2013-06-03 03:00:54 PM  

Tatsuma: Cupajo: "Holding" does not necessarily mean "in your hand", you halfwit. You knew exactly what I meant.

No, when you say 'while holding a gun' you clearly are saying he went out with a gun in his hand. You didn't mean 'with a gun in his holster'.


Uhh, nope.
 
2013-06-03 03:01:24 PM  

Tatsuma: Cupajo: All he "initiated" was a walk home with a bag of Skittles. When you stalk someone in the middle of the night while holding a gun (after you've been advised not to by a 911 operator), then you are the one who puts the events in motion. Why is that so hard for people like you to understand?

He did not have his gun drawn when he approached Martin, nor was he told by the 911 operator to not draw his gun.

You know when you have to lie to make your case, that shows how weak it is.


I have said it before - there is a reason Zim was not arrested the night of the incident - because there was no indication whatsoever that Zim had committed a crime.

Zim saw Martin acting suspiciously and called the cops.  He tried to keep him in sight and was flollowing to do when dispatch told him "you don't need to do that".  ZIm complied and was going back to his vehicle.  Zim was confronted by Martin and it became physical.  Zim was on his back being beaten and shot Martin in self defense.

EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE that has so far been revealed supports NOTHING but that version of the night in question.

Seriously, why do people think there is any more to it?  Zim shot Martin in self defense.  PERIOD.  There is only a case against Zim right now because the mob demanded that he be charged, evidence be damned.
 
2013-06-03 03:01:42 PM  

Antimatter: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug will be in the prison system.

So baseless ...

Forget it, hes probably some stormfronter who is just glad to see another dead black youth.  No reason to debate him further.


Yep you are right. Lets face it if trayvon was a white kid all these defenders of zimmerman would not have shiat to say on the matter.
 
2013-06-03 03:02:43 PM  
A lot of emotional investment in this case. i hope it ends in a hung jury, and the prosecution decides to try him again, and it stretches out for years and years. i think that would piss off the largest quantity of self-righteous assholes, and give me the most amusement.
 
2013-06-03 03:02:44 PM  

Phinn: Antimatter: Did GZ, or did he not, get out of a car, confront and then chase down a fleeing kid, while he himself was armed with a deadly weapon?

He got out of his car, followed on foot, and pursued a fleeing teenager while attempting to report that teenager's location to the police.

There is no evidence, other than Zimmerman's statement and DeeDee the earwitness, as to who confronted whom, but the statement of DeeDee, coached and delayed and untrustworthy as it is, still says that Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, that Zimmerman responded with a question, and that a physical struggle followed.

Following and observing suspicious people is not illegal, nor does it constitute a threat of imminent injury sufficient to justify force in self-defense.

The fact that Zimmerman was armed with a deadly weapon does not change the law that defines when self-defense is legal.


Shouldn't matter.  He had no reason, nor authority, to chase him down and confront him.  You can't chase someone down, confront them, and then kill them when they fight back against you.  That just doesn't make sense and is far too easy to abuse.  When chased by an armed man late at night who runs you down when you try to flee is grounds for self defense, not anything of what GZ did.
 
2013-06-03 03:03:42 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Elegy: fredklein: dittybopper: Just because you started a fight with someone doesn't mean you have to essentially commit suicide by submitting.

So, I can punch a cop, then, when he pulls his gun, I can legally shoot him dead?

Punching a cop is felony. You cannot commit a felony in Florida and still claim self defense.

You can, however, punch another citizen and shoot them when they beat the tar out of them, provided at some point you tried to stop the fight and you had a legitimate fear for you life at the time.

I distinctly remember going over this with you in the last Zimmerman thread, even providing chapter and verse in Florida law and explaining all of the ramifications to you.

So I ask you - are you trolling, or are you just stupid?

I'm sure it varies by state, but isn't aggravated assault a felony? Perhaps depending on how it went down, initiating the fight while armed with a deadly weapon might be enough to meet that?


Aggravated Assault statue supplies that aggravated assault is
An "aggravated assault" is an assault:
(a)With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b)With an intent to commit a felony.

Hitting someone with your fist is simple battery, unless you have a prior conviction for simple battery, in which case you can be charged with a felony on your second offense.
 
2013-06-03 03:03:57 PM  

skullkrusher: cameroncrazy1984: nekom: His claim is that Martin was on top of him and he felt his life was in danger.  So he has to convince a jury that a reasonable person in his position would have felt threatened.  It doesn't matter how he got in that situation, not that we really know for sure as the only other witness to the entire chain of events is dead.  Again, taking out all racial components and emotions, purely based on the letter of the law itself, I suspect he'll walk.

The defendant has to prove that he was, in fact, on his back. Remember, there are no credible witnesses who can identify that it was him on his back being beaten.

seems like the prosecution has to prove that he wasn't.


You mean like the lack of bruises on his back because you know if you fall on your back on a hard ground there would be some bruising.  Also if he shot Martin while the guy was on top of him, you'd expect some blood to fall on him since he was so close, was there any of Martins blood on him?
 
2013-06-03 03:04:24 PM  

Phinn: Antimatter: By bearing arms and escalating the confrontation, GZ should automatically be in the wrong here.

You are wrong on both the facts and the law.  The proposition you just asserted has absolutely no basis in law whatsoever.
ProfessorOhki: isn't aggravated assault a felony?

Prove that Zimmerman committed aggravated assault, please.


I've got no interest in proving it either way. I'm only saying that arguing that a felony was being committed is one avenue the prosecution has for shutting down the self-defense claim. I'm just wondering aloud what approach the attorneys will take.

Speaking of adopting a defensive posture without merit though... good job on the reading there.
 
2013-06-03 03:04:29 PM  

Antimatter: He committed a crime by inserting himself into a situation that he had no business being in, and then running down a victim trying to escape, while armed with a deadly weapon.

That sounds like he planned to do violence to me, and self defense cannot be premeditated like that.



This is all completely incorrect.

"Inserting" yourself "into a situation" is not a meaningful legal standard of behavior.  It may annoy you, but it means nothing in terms of criminal law.

"Running down a victim" is also not remotely legally relevant.

The question is who posed an imminent threat of injury.  Asking people what they're doing does not qualify.

The bigger question is what evidence is there to prove an answer to that question, one way or the other.

The State simply does not have evidence to disprove the self-defense claim, unless they have more than has been revealed.
 
2013-06-03 03:04:36 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Antimatter: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug w ...


Black thug or white thug...it they are both trash to me.  The law must be upheld and a judgement must be made on only facts.  There aren't enough facts to convict (except with a jury of you guys).  They would win on an appeal anyway.  Lib on, friends.
 
2013-06-03 03:04:45 PM  

Pumpernickel bread: I can't understand why this story is still in the news, particularly since the original "story" put out by MSNBC had been debunked.  The evidence suggests Martin was on top of him and caving his face in when he shot.  I don't see how any reasonable person could say that shooting wasn't justified.


Most people jumped to a conclusion when this incident first took place. As the evidence came out suggesting that this wasn't what it first appeared to be, they kept hanging onto their original opinion, rather than actually looking at the mounting evidence. At some point, the hole became so deep that they figured "fark it, too late to change now" and are sticking to their guns.
 
2013-06-03 03:05:09 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Lets face it if trayvon was a white kid all these defenders of zimmerman would not have shiat to say on the matter.


Bahhhh.......imagine if it were these guys..........
marc.merlins.org
It would be the most epic thread ever.
 
2013-06-03 03:05:22 PM  

MFAWG: He confronted Martin while he was still in the car, and then got out of the car and followed Martin up the footpath.


There is not a single court that will ever consider 'walking behind someone on the street to make sure they are not committing a crime' to be initiating a confrontation.

frepnog: Seriously, why do people think there is any more to it? Zim shot Martin in self defense. PERIOD. There is only a case against Zim right now because the mob demanded that he be charged, evidence be damned.


Yep.

He's going to walk, too, then have a target on his back for the next decade.
 
2013-06-03 03:06:14 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom [TotalFark]
2013-06-03 12:39:01 PM


Zimmerman got really farking fat. Good god, easy on the churros, dude.

I'd bet you'd be screaming bloody murder -and hitting the report button- if some fool said something about t.martin and fried chicken & watermelon.

Racism is oh so funny when TotalFarkers do it.
 
2013-06-03 03:06:25 PM  

Antimatter: Doesn't matter. By bearing arms and escalating the confrontation, GZ should automatically be in the wrong here.


That is really poor reasoning. First it assumes that yje "escalation" was initiated by Zimmerman. It may have been, it may have been Martin, it may have been both assholes talking smack to each other. But talking, even yelling at each other, is not of consequence here.

We don't know who threw the first punch and who made it physical. And even then, that's not the key fact of the case. The question is who thought they were in danger for their life. If Martin saw that Zimmerman was armed and was being beligerant and threatening and couldn't get away, he would have been justified in attacking Zimmerman. If Zimmerman was attacked, and was on the losing end and thought HIS life was in danger, then he would have been justified in using his gun.

IF, IF, IF. We don't know, and will likely never know what happened. I suspect that we had two men, each overburdened with their own bad-assedness who got into an altercation that probably could have been easily avoided by either or both of them, but wasn't and now one is dead.

This is fundamentaly no different than a bar fight gone bad, and it is dissapointing that for months parties with ulterior motives and biases have been going to great lengths to turn this into a divisive political issue for racism, for gun-control, for stand-your-ground laws, or whatever else.

But hey. That advertising isn't going to sell itself!
 
2013-06-03 03:06:45 PM  

I_C_Weener: coco ebert: Unless Trayvon Martin jumped on Zimmerman's car and forced him to get out, how could he be the one that initiated the confrontation? Doesn't the 9/11 call where the operator asks Zimmerman to stay in his car show who initiated what?

Well, just because you parked at the McDonald's and got out doesn't mean you ordered food.  Now, if you went in observed, then went back out AND then an employee attacked you shoving a Big Mac down your throat, who is the aggressor?


It's more like if you stopped at McDonalds at night, went inside and started following an employee around, and then when they ran into the back to get away from you, you followed them back there too, and then when they tried to defend themselves against your obviously crazy self, you shot them dead.
 
2013-06-03 03:07:45 PM  

OnlyM3: Racism is oh so funny when TotalFarkers do it.


There are some minorities where it's acceptable to make fun on Fark. You can for example make racist comments about Zimmerman, but he would be blowing up with rage if a guy was making a racist comment in a thread about republicans trying to kick illegals out of Arizona.
 
2013-06-03 03:08:45 PM  
So, what are the odds of rioting in FL if he is found not guilty?
 
2013-06-03 03:08:57 PM  

Antimatter: He had no reason, nor authority, to chase him down and confront him. You can't chase someone down, confront them, and then kill them when they fight back against you. That just doesn't make sense and is far too easy to abuse. When chased by an armed man late at night who runs you down when you try to flee is grounds for self defense, not anything of what GZ did.



As much as his behavior bothers you, it's not illegal.  The only authority he needed was the freedom we all have to do anything that's not illegal or threatening to others.

Following someone to ask him what he's doing is not illegal or imminently threatening.  GZ needed no special authority to do these things.

You should study the criminal law before you write posts about what the criminal law says.
 
2013-06-03 03:09:44 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Lets face it if trayvon was a white kid all these defenders of zimmerman would not have shiat to say on the matter.


You are correct.  There wouldn't be shiat to say because if a clearly innocent black man had shot a white punk in an obvious case of self defense, he would not have been charged.  The story would not have made it past page 3 of the local paper.
 
2013-06-03 03:10:07 PM  

LrdPhoenix: It's more like if you stopped at McDonalds at night, went inside and started following an employee around, and then when they ran into the back to get away from you, you followed them back there too, and then when they tried to defend themselves against your obviously crazy self, you shot them dead.


Your analogy falls on multiple levels:

McDonalds is a private property, not a public one.
You are not allowed to go into the back where employees are.
You have no proofs that Zimmerman was 'acting crazy' nor attacked him
 
2013-06-03 03:10:47 PM  

Heinrich von Eckardt: You are correct. There wouldn't be shiat to say because if a clearly innocent black man had shot a white punk in an obvious case of self defense, he would not have been charged. The story would not have made it past page 3 of the local paper.


ZIMMERMAN IS NOT WHITE.
 
2013-06-03 03:11:21 PM  

kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: Antimatter: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax payers money because one less thug w ...

Black thug or white thug...it they are both trash to me.  The law must be upheld and a judgement must be made on only facts.  There aren't enough facts to convict (except with a jury of you guys).  They would win on an appeal anyway.  Lib on, friends.


Just because you call him a thug does not make it so.
being armed with a firearm puts a certain responsibility on george from the get go. And he farked up. Any result either then george doing some time will be a travesty of justice.
 
2013-06-03 03:11:28 PM  

ProfessorOhki: Phinn: Antimatter: By bearing arms and escalating the confrontation, GZ should automatically be in the wrong here.

You are wrong on both the facts and the law.  The proposition you just asserted has absolutely no basis in law whatsoever.
ProfessorOhki: isn't aggravated assault a felony?

Prove that Zimmerman committed aggravated assault, please.

I've got no interest in proving it either way. I'm only saying that arguing that a felony was being committed is one avenue the prosecution has for shutting down the self-defense claim. I'm just wondering aloud what approach the attorneys will take.

Speaking of adopting a defensive posture without merit though... good job on the reading there.


If they were going to use that avenue, they would have charged him with an additional felony already. They can't just magically claim he was committing another felony at trial because they say so without charging the man.

So no.
 
2013-06-03 03:12:13 PM  

Elegy: ongbok: Tatsuma: nekom: That's true, but there aren't any witnesses contrary to his story either, and he did have some lacerations on his head.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, there are three different witnesses who saw him on his back with Martin on top attacking him and that he was screaming for help.

He's going to walk.

Do you have a link that a witness said Zimmerman was screaming for help? All the witnesses said somebody was screaming for help, but couldn't say who.

A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[149] He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Just below the links to the 911 calls, you can follow the citations yourself. There was at least one other witness that said Zimmerman was the one on the bottom, IIRC. And even if you disregard the witness testimony, the physical evidence says that Zimmerman did not fight back at all - there wasn't a mark on Martin.


Other than that bullet hole.
 
2013-06-03 03:13:09 PM  

Phinn: fredklein: So, I can punch a cop, then, when he pulls his gun, I can legally shoot him dead?

No, the use of force against an LEO to resist a lawful arrest is a specially-defined crime.  Punching the cop meant he had the right to use whatever force was necessary to effect the arrest.  Cops have that special statutory protection.


I said nothing about being under arrest.
 
2013-06-03 03:14:53 PM  
How does Zimmerman's racial background matter? People of color can be racist or bigoted against other people of color. Is this shocking or something?
 
2013-06-03 03:15:54 PM  

Tatsuma: Heinrich von Eckardt: You are correct. There wouldn't be shiat to say because if a clearly innocent black man had shot a white punk in an obvious case of self defense, he would not have been charged. The story would not have made it past page 3 of the local paper.

ZIMMERMAN IS NOT WHITE.


What percentage of the close to 50 911 calls Zimmerman made that are on tape reference 'suspicious white guys'?

I'm willing to bet it's less than 10 pct.
 
2013-06-03 03:16:02 PM  

nekom: None of this is the slightest bit relevant to the case.   Was he a good person?  Did he smoke weed?  None of that matters.  The question is whether or not a self defense claim is valid.  It doesn't matter if he was a gangster or a choir boy.


Agreed.  It doesn't matter if Travon was white or black or what color Zimmerman was either.  It has nothing to do with Skittles, or what a police dispatcher said and for farks sake no one cares that obama thinks he looks like the son he never had. In fact it was completey irresponsible for him to say such a dick ass thing.

Was it self defense or not?
 
2013-06-03 03:16:10 PM  

Elegy: Aggravated Assault statue supplies that aggravated assault is
An "aggravated assault" is an assault:
(a)With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b)With an intent to commit a felony.

Hitting someone with your fist is simple battery, unless you have a prior conviction for simple battery, in which case you can be charged with a felony on your second offense.


Yep... where assault is:
(1)An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

So, if an "assault" is an unlawful threat by word or act to do violence with the ability to do so. And such an assault with a deadly weapon is aggravated and a felony... then unlawfully pointing a gun at someone as a threat ("stop moving or I shoot") would be a felony and invalidate a claim to self defense, would it not?

Again, not claiming that's what happened, only considering what laws might be brought up during trial.
 
2013-06-03 03:16:35 PM  

coco ebert: How does Zimmerman's racial background matter? People of color can be racist or bigoted against other people of color. Is this shocking or something?


By painting Zimmerman as white, they can pretend that what he was doing was racially motivated and another example of yet another racist white man scared of a black man.

They are desperate to turn this into a racial thing instead of a neighborhood watch versus teenager. They are almost Cartman like in their desire of this turning into race riots.
 
2013-06-03 03:17:36 PM  

MFAWG: What percentage of the close to 50 911 calls Zimmerman made that are on tape reference 'suspicious white guys'?

I'm willing to bet it's less than 10 pct.


So you actually have no clues, you just 'feel' it must be that way. Zimmerman was not a racist and many figures from the African-American community came out in his favor and said they knew him and he never demonstrated any hatred.
 
2013-06-03 03:17:52 PM  

Elegy: ProfessorOhki: Phinn: Antimatter: By bearing arms and escalating the confrontation, GZ should automatically be in the wrong here.

You are wrong on both the facts and the law.  The proposition you just asserted has absolutely no basis in law whatsoever.
ProfessorOhki: isn't aggravated assault a felony?

Prove that Zimmerman committed aggravated assault, please.

I've got no interest in proving it either way. I'm only saying that arguing that a felony was being committed is one avenue the prosecution has for shutting down the self-defense claim. I'm just wondering aloud what approach the attorneys will take.

Speaking of adopting a defensive posture without merit though... good job on the reading there.

If they were going to use that avenue, they would have charged him with an additional felony already. They can't just magically claim he was committing another felony at trial because they say so without charging the man.

So no.


That's certainly a fair point. I haven't been paying attention to this stuff outside of the occasional Fark thread TBH.
 
2013-06-03 03:18:30 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Yep you are right. Lets face it if trayvon was a white kid all these defenders of zimmerman would not have shiat to say on the matter.


dude, I am whiter than mayonnaise and I am telling you that Martin's skin color made ZERO difference in this case.  Had he been white and jumped on Zimmerman and was beating his head against the concrete, I would still say Zim was justified in shooting him, because that is just a fact.

The only reason a race card is being played here is because of the initial bullshiat reporting that the media is guilty of, when the media claimed a small innocent black child was gunned down in cold blood by a white male aggressor, a version of the night's events that is more fictional than the latest Stephen King novel.
 
2013-06-03 03:19:56 PM  

teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: Antimatter: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: teenage mutant ninja rapist: kortex: ongbok: kortex: obamadidcoke: kortex: Less than flattering?  Nice way of putting it.  The kid was a gangster in training and a stupid thug.  He shouldn't have attacked someone if he didn't want to get shot.  Cause, effect.

He was harassed and followed at night dosen't this kid have a right to self defense.

You have a right to self defense if someone attacks you.  Five years ago, some crazy woman thought I was someone else and followed me home.  She the started screaming at me about her children and such.  I called the police who arrested her for harassment.  I didn't attack her.  Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself.  It's that simple.  Zimmerman should not  have been following him but that doesn't give Martin the right to attack him.  If someone attacked me in the night, was a better fighter (judging from Zimmerman's wounds) and I feared for my life, I would end his.  This whole trial is a joke.

And Martin tried to avoid the confrontation all together by running away.

So you are saying if some guy who is bigger than you is following you, then starts chasing you, you don't have the right to defend yourself?

Chasing is not a physical attack.  Hitting is.  The kid decided to attack (most likely because that was the "gangster" thing to do) and was shot dead.

The gangster thing to do eh? So self preservation does not enter into your thinking?

Since when do gangsters or wanna be gangsters make intelligent decisions?  Our prisons are full of thugs and gangsters and many of them are killed on the streets.  Here is another dead one.

Did trayvon have a criminal record? Im not sure to be honest. But if his record is clean then all this gangster talk is irrelevant.

Everyone has a clean record until arrested.  It doesn't mean he wasn't doing anything wrong.  Nice try.  His death will save tax ...


Please, enlighten Fark on what those responsibilities are.
 
Displayed 50 of 589 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report