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(Slate)   The last time Earth had 400 parts per million carbon dioxide, there were forests growing in the Arctic   (slate.com) divider line 393
    More: Scary, Arctic, Earth, forests  
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8851 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2013 at 9:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-03 09:41:52 AM
scary?
 
2013-06-03 09:43:21 AM
Selectively truncated graphs of ten-year periods show no significant global temperature changes, therefore the article is alarmist propaganda.
 
2013-06-03 09:43:38 AM

FreetardoRivera: scary?


... only for people who haven't invested in Arctic logging.
 
2013-06-03 09:45:18 AM
Big Oil says I have nothing to worry about.  And I saw something on Fox News debunking this whole 'science' thing.  Nothing to see her, fill up that SUV.
 
2013-06-03 09:45:21 AM
That station is on a volcano so maybe take this with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of WTF are you implying. Maybe volcano go boom, not earth is melting.
 
2013-06-03 09:45:44 AM

Dimensio: Selectively truncated graphs of ten-year periods show no significant global temperature changes, therefore the article is alarmist propaganda.


Keep telling yourself that.
 
2013-06-03 09:45:53 AM
Which, since there are no trees in the Arctic today, shows that the theory of anthropogenic, carbon dioxide based global warming is complete and utter bunk. QED.
 
2013-06-03 09:46:08 AM

Theaetetus: FreetardoRivera: scary?

... only for people who haven't invested in Arctic logging.


ok.. I laughed...

I heard a rumor in grade school that said many plants and trees used some sort of gas and converted it to oxygen... wth was the name of that gas...

wait.. don't tell me.. it's on the tip of my tongue
 
2013-06-03 09:46:48 AM
The article has a spiffy looking chart.
 
2013-06-03 09:46:59 AM
We think the last time concentrations were as high as 400 ppm was between 3 and 5 million years ago, when the world was much warmer.

*raises hand in back row of classroom*

And then what happened, Professor Keeling?
 
2013-06-03 09:47:36 AM
So over the last 60 years CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has steadily increased by an unbelievable 0.01%. One one hundredth of one percent.
I'm shaking in my boots.
 
2013-06-03 09:47:49 AM

Dimensio: Selectively truncated graphs of ten-year periods show no significant global temperature changes, therefore the article is alarmist propaganda.


www.woodfortrees.org
At this rate, the seas will all be frozen within this century. We need more global warming, not less!
 
2013-06-03 09:48:27 AM
The earth was once much hotter. The earth was once much colder. The earth once had a larger concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere. The earth once had more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The earth once supported very different forms of life.

/The earth is like a big dog. Every now and again it gets up and shakes off a few fleas
//How's it feel to be a flea?
 
2013-06-03 09:49:33 AM
It's best to measure carbon dioxide near an active volcano.
 
2013-06-03 09:50:33 AM
Climate change deniers cannot be convinced. It's the intellectual equivalent of trying to catch a greased pig. They have their minds made up.

It's not happening.
It's not happening, scientists were wrong about the upcoming ice age in the 1970's.
It might or might not be happening, scientists are evenly divided.
It might be happening, but it's caused by the sun.
It might be happening, but who cares? Climate change happens naturally all the time.
It might be happening, but warmer weather will be a benefit.
It might be happening, but America can't do anything about it. It's China's fault.
It might be happening, but Al Gore is fat.
(Snows somewhere in May)
Hahaha! It's not happening!
 
2013-06-03 09:50:33 AM

FabulousFreep: That station is on a volcano so maybe take this with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of WTF are you implying. Maybe volcano go boom, not earth is melting.


Volcanoes emit around 0.3 billion tonnes ofCO2 per year. This is about 1% of humanCO2 emissions which is around 29 billion tonnes per year

I think you are confusing your gases there friend.
 
2013-06-03 09:51:07 AM
And the planet survived?

When should I start hand wringing?
 
2013-06-03 09:51:25 AM
There have been forests in the Arctic for centuries.  Look at google earth.  There's a reason that Northern Russia, Canada, Norway and Alaska are green tinted.
 
2013-06-03 09:52:00 AM
Carbon Dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere used to be measured in percentage points instead of in parts per million... then along came a lifeform that consumed it all and dumped their poison waste directly into the atmosphere.  More than 90% of all species were killed by their poisonous output.  Those lifeforms were green plants and their poison waste is oxygen.
 
2013-06-03 09:53:10 AM
Would the lack of trees in the arctic now suggest that there might be more significant factors that contribute to climate change/warming than CO2?
 
2013-06-03 09:53:18 AM

LittleSmitty: The earth is like a big dog. Every now and again it gets up and shakes off a few fleas


Dogs very rarely have 7 billion fleas on them.
The earth will shake it off but perhaps we should consider stopping the incessant biting so it cuts us a break.
 
2013-06-03 09:53:36 AM

Cold_Sassy: Dimensio: Selectively truncated graphs of ten-year periods show no significant global temperature changes, therefore the article is alarmist propaganda.

Keep telling yourself that.


What possible element of Dimensio's wording indicated to you that (s)he was serious?   There's oblivious and then there's oblivious.
 
2013-06-03 09:54:38 AM

flak attack: There have been forests in the Arctic for centuries.  Look at google earth.  There's a reason that Northern Russia, Canada, Norway and Alaska are green tinted.


Most of the arctic is not land - it is an ocean - thats the bit we should be concerned about.

// wont someone think of the russian subs ? where are they going to hide ?!?
 
2013-06-03 09:54:49 AM

Giltric: And the planet survived?

When should I start hand wringing?


Taiga != Arctic.
 
2013-06-03 09:55:46 AM

TheWhoppah: Carbon Dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere used to be measured in percentage points instead of in parts per million... then along came a lifeform that consumed it all and dumped their poison waste directly into the atmosphere.  More than 90% of all species were killed by their poisonous output.  Those lifeforms were green plants and their poison waste is oxygen.


And how pray tell do these "plants" react to increased CO2 in the atmosphere?
 
2013-06-03 09:56:19 AM

GoldSpider: Giltric: And the planet survived?

When should I start hand wringing?

Taiga != Arctic.


Whoops, that was meant for flak attack.
 
2013-06-03 09:56:26 AM
Why do we think the Earth will be kinder to humans than it was to the dinosaurs? Maybe one day our age will simply come to an end.
 
2013-06-03 09:58:28 AM

Hermione_Granger: Why do we think the Earth will be kinder to humans than it was to the dinosaurs? Maybe one day our age will simply come to an end.


Dinosaurs didn't invent air conditioning.
 
2013-06-03 09:59:19 AM

Slartibartfaster: LittleSmitty: The earth is like a big dog. Every now and again it gets up and shakes off a few fleas

Dogs very rarely have 7 billion fleas on them.
The earth will shake it off but perhaps we should consider stopping the incessant biting so it cuts us a break.


The planet will survive. Life will survive.

And the earth's survival is not contingent on man.

Also there's a lot more than 7 billion of many other life forms on this planet.
 
2013-06-03 09:59:23 AM

FC Exile: And how pray tell do these "plants" react to increased CO2 in the atmosphere?


They get on quite well until the droughts hit.
 
2013-06-03 10:00:03 AM
Eh, SUVs didn't have catalytic converters 3-5 million years ago. We're good now!
 
2013-06-03 10:00:12 AM

FreetardoRivera: scary?


I would have gone with sensationalistic, histronic or stupid. Scary, gotta agree with Freetardo?

www.bannerblog.com.au


Stupid graphs are stupid.
 
2013-06-03 10:00:31 AM
I've always enjoyed arguments against global temperature change, and humanities involvement. "Well, the Earth has already had 400ppm carbon dioxide before! It's a natural change."

Yes. Yes it has. It's also had much warmer temperatures, and of course much colder (though some of the "snowball Earth" ideas are hardly past hypothesis currently). What they fail to take into account is that we're seeing these changes happening in the span of 100-150 years, whereas previous changes took place over hundreds of thousands of years, and didn't happen to coincide directly with our use of fossil fuels, among other things.

Another amusing argument; "There's no consensus among scientists". OK, that's true if by "consensus" you mean "everybody agrees". There are, certainly, some scientists who still have doubts about our involvement, and even fewer who doubt that it's evening happening. However, in the past what, 10 years, there's been something to the tune of 13,000 peer reviewed studies on the issue, and better than 94% of them have shown, conclusively, that the Earth is warming, and that we're behind it. Now, I realize some have an idea that when a scientist writes a paper and their peers review it, some think those peers look at the paper and say "GOSH! The best cheese is made from boll weevils? That's got MY stamp of approval!" Anyone who thinks that doesn't know any scientists... They get positively giddy at the prospect of proving other scientists wrong, that they used flawed methodology, that the samples were corrupted, they forgot to carry the 7, etc. Even if (especially if) it's a paper by a friend or colleague, there is pure unadulterated glee in showing them wrong.

Lastly, so far every scientist who has been a doubter, then gone and looked over all the available data and at other studies, has turned around and had a change of heart. That includes the scientists hired by the Koch brothers.

Now, you don't have to be a liberal to "believe" in what's happening. It's not a matter of "belief". shiats getting real. Sure, we don't know how fast, or if it can be slowed or changed, but it's happening.
 
2013-06-03 10:01:33 AM

Shazam999: And the earth's survival is not contingent on man


Nobody is doubting the earth will survive.
The doubt is whether women and men can survive.

Perhaps more focus should be put on humans surviving - ya know by us being more cooperative and respectful and stuff.

// at least until we can find a good home that is not going to shake us off like the blood sucking fleas we are
 
2013-06-03 10:03:26 AM

Thunderpipes: Hermione_Granger: Why do we think the Earth will be kinder to humans than it was to the dinosaurs? Maybe one day our age will simply come to an end.

Dinosaurs didn't invent air conditioning.


Maybe they had it but the T-Rex couldnt turn it on due to its stubby arms.

Well now at least my beachfront artic investments might start paying out.
 
2013-06-03 10:03:40 AM
If the problem is global then we should treat the problem evenly across the globe. But no one wants to go after the CO2 dumping going on in Asia and the deforestation of South America.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/02/10/ Ca rbonWeb.pdf

Also, America is a large CO2 sink.We still are a net creator but most of our CO2 doesn't get very far out before being reabsorbed.
 
2013-06-03 10:04:08 AM
www.jocaonstuff.com
 
2013-06-03 10:04:26 AM

Shazam999: Also there's a lot more than 7 billion of many other life forms on this planet


how many of them burn fossil fuels ?
 
2013-06-03 10:04:56 AM

Thunderpipes: Hermione_Granger: Why do we think the Earth will be kinder to humans than it was to the dinosaurs? Maybe one day our age will simply come to an end.

Dinosaurs didn't invent air conditioning.


they power them though
 
2013-06-03 10:05:01 AM

Slartibartfaster: LittleSmitty: The earth is like a big dog. Every now and again it gets up and shakes off a few fleas

Dogs very rarely have 7 billion fleas on them.
The earth will shake it off but perhaps we should consider stopping the incessant biting so it cuts us a break.


Fleas gonna be fleas. Not that I was trying to make a particular point, just an observation
 
2013-06-03 10:05:05 AM

FC Exile: TheWhoppah: Carbon Dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere used to be measured in percentage points instead of in parts per million... then along came a lifeform that consumed it all and dumped their poison waste directly into the atmosphere.  More than 90% of all species were killed by their poisonous output.  Those lifeforms were green plants and their poison waste is oxygen.

And how pray tell do these "plants" react to increased CO2 in the atmosphere?


They grow and reproduce.  Perhaps even in places where they did not grow before.  They eventually consume the CO2 and balance is restored.
 
2013-06-03 10:06:28 AM

LittleSmitty: Fleas gonna be fleas


agreed

wish I did not
but I agree

We are the first to have potential to rise above that though, perhaps now is a good time to use it.
 
2013-06-03 10:07:53 AM

Stone Meadow: We think the last time concentrations were as high as 400 ppm was between 3 and 5 million years ago, when the world was much warmer.

*raises hand in back row of classroom*

And then what happened, Professor Keeling?


And then the isthmus of Panama closed, and the arctic icecap formed. Obviously carbon dioxide had kept the mountains from forming until then.
 
2013-06-03 10:08:11 AM

TheWhoppah: They grow and reproduce.  Perhaps even in places where they did not grow before.  They eventually consume the CO2 and balance is restored


They grow and consume, not just the CO2, but the water - drought is a usual intermediary before the balance is restored. Sometimes this drought will last a few thousand years
 
2013-06-03 10:09:14 AM
I've been watching this for years. Started paying attention to some studies having to do with permafrost keeping UV away from peat, and how it would be pretty unfortunate, if that layer of permafrost were to melt, as UV coming into contact with peat releases a lot of badness.

It was around that time that I learned about how methane is 20x better at being a greenhouse gas than carbon, which everyone is freaking out about, worldwide (carbon footprint, etc)

Then a few years later, I caught that story about those Russian scientists who noticed a whole bunch of methane, venting from the ocean floor. They said there were over 100 plumes, and that some of them measured around 1 km - in diameter.

We're farked. Make arrangements.
 
2013-06-03 10:09:25 AM

thatguyoverthere70: Climate change deniers cannot be convinced. It's the intellectual equivalent of trying to catch a greased pig. They have their minds made up.

It's not happening.
It's not happening, scientists were wrong about the upcoming ice age in the 1970's.
It might or might not be happening, scientists are evenly divided.
It might be happening, but it's caused by the sun.
It might be happening, but who cares? Climate change happens naturally all the time.
It might be happening, but warmer weather will be a benefit.
It might be happening, but America can't do anything about it. It's China's fault.
It might be happening, but Al Gore is fat.
(Snows somewhere in May)
Hahaha! It's not happening!


Global warming
Global climate weirding
Global climate transmogrification

Global climate something nebulous enough that it can't be quantified.

Unfalsifiable thesis for the lose.
 
2013-06-03 10:09:30 AM
That's a pretty steady graph. Where is the part where people in the last 40 years caused a surge?

I'm not doubting that the planet is warming or climate is changing. I'm doubting the reason. There is too much money being made claiming the sky is falling so I think maybe a few facts are being overlooked. Like, the planet has always cycled from cold to warm and back again. We're just better equipped today to measure it and make a profit on scare tactics.

I can honestly say that here in Maryland we've got more trees today than we did in the mid 1800's when photography became available. I'm always surprised to see the heavily wooded areas I walk through were once busy towns and industrial areas in photographs. Same with woodcuts in old books, they show fields where there are trees today.
 
2013-06-03 10:09:47 AM
www.indiana.edu
 
2013-06-03 10:10:33 AM

Slartibartfaster: LittleSmitty: Fleas gonna be fleas

agreed

wish I did not
but I agree

We are the first to have potential to rise above that though, perhaps now is a good time to use it.


Agreed. But we as a species have a poor track record in that regard. Look how long it took us to figure out it was a bad idea to piss and crap in our water supply. And even now that we know better, it still happens.
 
2013-06-03 10:11:11 AM

Slartibartfaster: Shazam999: Also there's a lot more than 7 billion of many other life forms on this planet

how many of them burn fossil fuels ?


How many of them wish they could? All of them...that's who.

/case closed, have my Nobel Prize delivered to my escape pod immediately. I'm off this desolate rock.
//Not leaving any kids behind and don't care about yours.
 
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