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(The New York Times)   For a religion that holds elimination of desire as one of its core teachings, these Buddhist monks seem to be really feisty about who owns some priceless relics   (nytimes.com) divider line 88
    More: Interesting, Buddhists, Buddhist monks, Japan Ground Self-Defense Force, teachings, faiths  
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4910 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2013 at 12:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-03 06:07:59 AM
"To stop suffering, stop greediness.  Greediness is a source of suffering," said the Buddha.

The "deity of compassion" is  Avalokiteśvara, the most revered of the Bodhisattvas, known  to the Chinese in the feminine form of Quan Yin.  They are not gods but beings far advanced on the path to Enlightenment, who could enter the eternal non-suffering of Nrivana if they chose.  They choose, instead, to remain in this realm of birth, suffering, death, and rebirth until they have helped every other sentient being achieve Nirvana... a never-ending task.

Their love is infinitely greater than the love which Jesus said was the greatest.  To die for one's friends is the work of a moment; to live and suffer eternally for them is a far greater sacrifice.
 
2013-06-03 06:26:52 AM
Also Buddhism plays the LOOOOOONG game. You think one eternity is a long time? The Bodhisattva are willing to deal with multiples of that to save every sentient creature. It's not a short path, so it's understandable that not everyone will be advanced far enough to avoid such banal conflicts as this, especially considering you're not really a full Buddhist unless you're meditating and such, actively working on your own enlightenment. If you just go to the temples on New Year's Day and funerals, you're just a fan of the religion.

And that's really how many Asians describe themselves. The Japanese have no religion, if you ask them. Shinto is a thing, Buddhism is a thing, but most of the time they're secular. Koreans are probably similar. They eat meat, drink beer, and don't sit around and meditate all day. No monks, just familiar with Buddhism. So it's understandable they wouldn't be very far along the path.
 
2013-06-03 09:21:58 AM
TFA:


"The pageant's organizers say they took the drastic step of canceling this year's celebration out of their own growing frustration over what they call South Korea's unwillingness to let bygones be bygones. Acutely conscious of Japan's declining position in the region, they say the Japanese are losing patience with being demonized for crimes committed decades or even centuries ago."


I think this kind of attitude exemplifies part of the reason why Japan's neighbors are still quite annoyed with them.
 
2013-06-03 11:56:25 AM
Japan and Korea??

I detect the corrupting influence of Shinto and Christianity.

*begins backing away*

...also, the entire Mahayana branch is too moony to worry overmuch about the Buddha's teachings

*runs*
 
2013-06-03 12:28:42 PM
Yeah the idea that Buddhism have based on television show and a few Western idiots who don't really know anything about it is far from what Buddhism really is.

For example, who here knew that Buddhism was routinely used in the past to justify wars and violence?

i.imgur.com

Four days ago, in Myanmar there was a report that a Muslim man had burned a Buddhist woman. Buddhist mobs started riots and have been attacking Muslims since, forcing them into hiding.
 
2013-06-03 12:35:14 PM

Tatsuma: Yeah the idea that Buddhism have based on television show and a few Western idiots who don't really know anything about it is far from what Buddhism really is.


Yeah, because Buddhism is one thing.

For example, who here knew that Buddhism was routinely used in the past to justify wars and violence?

I knew.  And plenty of other people.  You're not special.

Four days ago, in Myanmar there was a report that a Muslim man had burned a Buddhist woman. Buddhist mobs started riots and have been attacking Muslims since, forcing them into hiding.

Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new.  What's your point?
 
2013-06-03 12:38:11 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new. What's your point?


"Don't pay attention to the crap in the Middle East - look at those Buddhists instead!"
 
2013-06-03 12:40:54 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

unlikely Buddhists
 
2013-06-03 12:42:14 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new. What's your point?


presumably that subby's surprise doesn't make much sense in light of reality.
 
2013-06-03 12:42:17 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Tatsuma: Yeah the idea that Buddhism have based on television show and a few Western idiots who don't really know anything about it is far from what Buddhism really is.

Yeah, because Buddhism is one thing.

For example, who here knew that Buddhism was routinely used in the past to justify wars and violence?

I knew.  And plenty of other people.  You're not special.

Four days ago, in Myanmar there was a report that a Muslim man had burned a Buddhist woman. Buddhist mobs started riots and have been attacking Muslims since, forcing them into hiding.

Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new.<b>  What's your point?

</b>

Just wait for it......it will come into the thread eventually.
 
2013-06-03 12:42:37 PM
The purpose of discipline is to live MORE fully, not less.
I don't want to learn how to "not want." That's what people in prison have to deal with.
 
2013-06-03 12:45:32 PM
I have no problem with the Buddhists.  Their thing is pretty interesting.  Most of it seems to be based on sound logic.  Religion in general though, is not my bag, man.
 
2013-06-03 12:45:55 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new. What's your point?


I just want to note that in Myanmar, especially the rural areas where there is very few resources and few prospects of employment, it's fairly customary for the young men to become "monks" for a while because the Buddhist temples have work and food. They're monks in name only and they're not generally there for spiritual reasons.

So, the monks that often instigate riots and violence are often just unemployed young men with too much time on their hands looking for somebody to blame. The fact that they are monks is just a very minor detail since they're not really doing it as a directive of the religion.
 
2013-06-03 12:46:09 PM
I think the Bible says the same thing, but its followers are less likely to abandoned such sinful desires.
 
2013-06-03 12:46:54 PM
And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".
 
2013-06-03 12:47:28 PM

Tatsuma: Yeah the idea that Buddhism have based on television show and a few Western idiots who don't really know anything about it is far from what Buddhism really is.

For example, who here knew that Buddhism was routinely used in the past to justify wars and violence?

i.imgur.com

Four days ago, in Myanmar there was a report that a Muslim man had burned a Buddhist woman. Buddhist mobs started riots and have been attacking Muslims since, forcing them into hiding.


Are you suggesting Buddhism really is those examples?

Anything can be twisted, and often is, to serve military and political purposes. Except Judaism, of course.
 
2013-06-03 12:47:55 PM

skullkrusher: presumably that subby's surprise doesn't make much sense in light of reality.


Nailed it.
 
2013-06-03 12:48:32 PM

BarkingUnicorn: "To stop suffering, stop greediness.  Greediness is a source of suffering," said the Buddha.

The "deity of compassion" is  Avalokiteśvara, the most revered of the Bodhisattvas, known  to the Chinese in the feminine form of Quan Yin.  They are not gods but beings far advanced on the path to Enlightenment, who could enter the eternal non-suffering of Nrivana if they chose.  They choose, instead, to remain in this realm of birth, suffering, death, and rebirth until they have helped every other sentient being achieve Nirvana... a never-ending task.

Their love is infinitely greater than the love which Jesus said was the greatest.  To die for one's friends is the work of a moment; to live and suffer eternally for them is a far greater sacrifice.


Strictly speaking, Jesus said "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Also, "love you enemies". In fact, he even went so far as to say that 'love' was 'the whole of the Law fulfilled in one word'.

So far as I can tell, love could entail either dying for someone OR living and suffering for them. It's situationally dependent.

/ I can't believe I just defended Christianity in a Fark thread
 
2013-06-03 12:49:42 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Anything can be twisted, and often is, to serve military and political purposes. Except Judaism, of course.


Aw shiat, here we go...
 
2013-06-03 12:49:55 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Are you suggesting Buddhism really is those examples?


No I'm not, I'm deriding this attitude of 'Buddhists sit around wanting nothing, fat and jolly like those buddha statues!' that so many here have. How many times do you read shiat like 'Oh I'm not interested in Xianity or Islam but if I had to be religious, I'd choose something like Buddhism!' just because they buy into that image?

J. Frank Parnell: Anything can be twisted, and often is, to serve military and political purposes. Except Judaism, of course.


Not only can (and has) Judaism be distorted and twisted into something it's not, it led to two movements responsible for most of the misery felt on earth (until the 20th century at least) for the last 2,000 years.
 
2013-06-03 12:50:26 PM

Tatsuma: Yeah the idea that Buddhism have based on television show and a few Western idiots who don't really know anything about it is far from what Buddhism really is.

For example, who here knew that Buddhism was routinely used in the past to justify wars and violence?

[i.imgur.com image 256x380]

Four days ago, in Myanmar there was a report that a Muslim man had burned a Buddhist woman. Buddhist mobs started riots and have been attacking Muslims since, forcing them into hiding.


Yes, it turns out people world-wide will use their faith to justify their own actions, regardless of how much their actions are in line with the professed faith's core beliefs.  It's almost like it has more to do with the kind of person they are and nothing to do with the kind of religion they advocate.  Weird, huh?
 
2013-06-03 12:51:29 PM

Jake Havechek: And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".


What's Jesus have to do with a bunch of Buddhists fighting over relics?

netgamer7k: I think the Bible says the same thing, but its followers are less likely to abandoned such sinful desires.


Why are you bringing up Christianity when the article has fark all to do with them?
 
2013-06-03 12:51:40 PM
"Are you still carrying that woman? I put her down back at the river".
 
2013-06-03 12:51:41 PM

whistleridge: Strictly speaking, Jesus said "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Also, "love you enemies".


Except that he was just quoting Vayikra/Leviticus. Not an original teaching.

whistleridge: In fact, he even went so far as to say that 'love' was 'the whole of the Law fulfilled in one word'.


And he cribbed that from Hillel, too.
 
2013-06-03 12:51:53 PM
"It's a Buddhist meditation technique, focuses your aggression. The monks used to do it before they went into battle."

"What sort of Buddhism is this, Otto?"
 
2013-06-03 12:51:54 PM

Tatsuma: Not only can (and has) Judaism be distorted and twisted into something it's not, it led to two movements responsible for most of the misery felt on earth (until the 20th century at least) for the last 2,000 years.


By which, I assume you are referring to Christianity and Islam?

Because if that's so, then by that logic, Judaism is nothing more than a warped sectarian offshoot of ancient zoroastrianism, and we should really be blaming the ancient Persians...:p
 
2013-06-03 12:52:42 PM

Tatsuma: whistleridge: Strictly speaking, Jesus said "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Also, "love you enemies".

Except that he was just quoting Vayikra/Leviticus. Not an original teaching.

whistleridge: In fact, he even went so far as to say that 'love' was 'the whole of the Law fulfilled in one word'.

And he cribbed that from Hillel, too.


Yes, he did. Point in fact, both he and Saul/Paul barely said a single original thing. Which was kind of their point...
 
2013-06-03 12:52:51 PM

whistleridge: By which, I assume you are referring to Christianity and Islam?

Because if that's so, then by that logic, Judaism is nothing more than a warped sectarian offshoot of ancient zoroastrianism, and we should really be blaming the ancient Persians...:p


Judaism is older than zoroastrianism. Also both Xianity and Islam themselves declare they are offshoots from us.
 
2013-06-03 12:52:56 PM

RexTalionis: "The pageant's organizers say they took the drastic step of canceling this year's celebration out of their own growing frustration over what they call South Korea's unwillingness to let bygones be bygones. Acutely conscious of Japan's declining position in the region, they say the Japanese are losing patience with being demonized for crimes committed decades or even centuries ago."

I think this kind of attitude exemplifies part of the reason why Japan's neighbors are still quite annoyed with them.


You mean the neighbors' stubborn insistence on teaching about the Rape of Nanking in history class, thus demonizing those poor, oppressed Japanese?
 
2013-06-03 12:53:21 PM
Hey look, a religion where the followers struggle to overcome their human weaknesses!

Never seen that before.
 
2013-06-03 12:53:40 PM
Way to ruin an amusing headline by being so pendantic.
 
2013-06-03 12:54:52 PM

RexTalionis: Lionel Mandrake: Yes, violence in Myanmar - often directed by monks - is not new. What's your point?

I just want to note that in Myanmar, especially the rural areas where there is very few resources and few prospects of employment, it's fairly customary for the young men to become "monks" for a while because the Buddhist temples have work and food. They're monks in name only and they're not generally there for spiritual reasons.

So, the monks that often instigate riots and violence are often just unemployed young men with too much time on their hands looking for somebody to blame. The fact that they are monks is just a very minor detail since they're not really doing it as a directive of the religion.


Good point, worth noting.

I didn't want to get into a "Real" Buddhism vs. "That" Buddhism rut.

All religious traditions have been used as vehicles for good and evil, and always will be.
 
2013-06-03 12:55:06 PM

mekki: Jake Havechek: And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".

What's Jesus have to do with a bunch of Buddhists fighting over relics?


Maybe because it touches on Idolatry and the same message of forsaking material possessions in order to gain enlightenment inherent to most religions?

Want me to make you a flow chart? A motherfarking Powerpoint presentation complete with a video and summary handout?
 
2013-06-03 12:55:49 PM

whistleridge: Yes, he did. Point in fact, both he and Saul/Paul barely said a single original thing. Which was kind of their point...


Yeah the few things they did say that were original were so far from Judaism that it ended up with Jews just rejecting it (but man did the non-Jewish pagans around love it).

Actually they already had a huge base to sell it to. They were the so-called 'G-d Fearers' of the Roman Empire. They were non-Jews who were really into Judaism. You had whole roman cities where you couldn't see a single fire during the Shabbat, etc... They basically would have converted to Judaism if it hadn't been for one pesky detail: They really hated circumcision and saw it as a complete monstrosity that shouldn't be emulated. They also loved their swine.

So when that guy (Paul) came and said 'Hey you can have all of these things you're looking for in Judaism but without removing your foreskin oh and still eat bacon' they went crazy for it.
 
2013-06-03 12:56:49 PM

Jake Havechek: mekki: Jake Havechek: And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".

What's Jesus have to do with a bunch of Buddhists fighting over relics?

Maybe because it touches on Idolatry and the same message of forsaking material possessions in order to gain enlightenment inherent to most religions?

Want me to make you a flow chart? A motherfarking Powerpoint presentation complete with a video and summary handout?


Calm down. You're getting upset over nothing.
 
2013-06-03 12:57:56 PM

Jake Havechek: mekki: Jake Havechek: And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".

What's Jesus have to do with a bunch of Buddhists fighting over relics?

Maybe because it touches on Idolatry and the same message of forsaking material possessions in order to gain enlightenment inherent to most religions?

Want me to make you a flow chart? A motherfarking Powerpoint presentation complete with a video and summary handout?


So any chance to bash Christianity even though it has nothing to do with the story. Got it.
 
2013-06-03 12:58:52 PM

mekki: Jake Havechek: mekki: Jake Havechek: And didn't Jesus say: "drop all your material shiat and hang out with me, it'll be cool".

What's Jesus have to do with a bunch of Buddhists fighting over relics?

Maybe because it touches on Idolatry and the same message of forsaking material possessions in order to gain enlightenment inherent to most religions?

Want me to make you a flow chart? A motherfarking Powerpoint presentation complete with a video and summary handout?

So any chance to bash Christianity even though it has nothing to do with the story. Got it.


You didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition, did you!?
 
2013-06-03 01:00:08 PM

whistleridge: BarkingUnicorn: "To stop suffering, stop greediness.  Greediness is a source of suffering," said the Buddha.

The "deity of compassion" is  Avalokiteśvara, the most revered of the Bodhisattvas, known  to the Chinese in the feminine form of Quan Yin.  They are not gods but beings far advanced on the path to Enlightenment, who could enter the eternal non-suffering of Nrivana if they chose.  They choose, instead, to remain in this realm of birth, suffering, death, and rebirth until they have helped every other sentient being achieve Nirvana... a never-ending task.

Their love is infinitely greater than the love which Jesus said was the greatest.  To die for one's friends is the work of a moment; to live and suffer eternally for them is a far greater sacrifice.

Strictly speaking, Jesus said "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Also, "love you enemies". In fact, he even went so far as to say that 'love' was 'the whole of the Law fulfilled in one word'.

So far as I can tell, love could entail either dying for someone OR living and suffering for them. It's situationally dependent.

/ I can't believe I just defended Christianity in a Fark thread


I was referring to John 15:12-13

12"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.13"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
 
2013-06-03 01:00:27 PM

Tatsuma: whistleridge: By which, I assume you are referring to Christianity and Islam?

Because if that's so, then by that logic, Judaism is nothing more than a warped sectarian offshoot of ancient zoroastrianism, and we should really be blaming the ancient Persians...:p

Judaism is older than zoroastrianism. Also both Xianity and Islam themselves declare they are offshoots from us.


Yes and no. There are arguments on both sides. Certainly, the Genesis story and much of the Torah probably stem from (slightly) older material, but vast chunks of the material were at a minimum heavily influenced. Angels are probably zoroastrian in origin, as is much of the underlying philosophy. At a minimum, modern Judaism has heavily syncretized many elements from the ancient Zian practices.

אִיוֹב /lyob/Job and  קֹהֶלֶת /Qoheleth /Ecclesiastes are both essentially products of this. Although I will admit some scholars argue for a more Hellenistic origin for the latter, and I'm showing my bias in saying that.
 
2013-06-03 01:01:09 PM

chrylis: RexTalionis: "The pageant's organizers say they took the drastic step of canceling this year's celebration out of their own growing frustration over what they call South Korea's unwillingness to let bygones be bygones. Acutely conscious of Japan's declining position in the region, they say the Japanese are losing patience with being demonized for crimes committed decades or even centuries ago."

I think this kind of attitude exemplifies part of the reason why Japan's neighbors are still quite annoyed with them.

You mean the neighbors' stubborn insistence on teaching about the Rape of Nanking in history class, thus demonizing those poor, oppressed Japanese?


Nan King was asking for it.  I mean, look at what she was wearing.  Nan was practically begging for it.
 
2013-06-03 01:01:41 PM
"Teachings" are also anti-buddhist.  But I don't think most buddhists would pick up on that.  *shrug* their path is not my path.

I prefer tao.  Don't seek to escape the patterns of life.  Instead, see life for the wonderful experience it is.  We are all one, jump on it.
 
2013-06-03 01:01:55 PM

doglover: Also Buddhism plays the LOOOOOONG game. You think one eternity is a long time? The Bodhisattva are willing to deal with multiples of that to save every sentient creature.


Not for Theravadas. Once they attain enlightenment, they're outa here. The rest of y'all can figure it our for yourselves. It's the Republicanism of Buddhism.
 
2013-06-03 01:02:25 PM
I worship the taco.

Either kind.
 
2013-06-03 01:02:36 PM

whistleridge: Tatsuma: whistleridge: By which, I assume you are referring to Christianity and Islam?

Because if that's so, then by that logic, Judaism is nothing more than a warped sectarian offshoot of ancient zoroastrianism, and we should really be blaming the ancient Persians...:p

Judaism is older than zoroastrianism. Also both Xianity and Islam themselves declare they are offshoots from us.

Yes and no. There are arguments on both sides. Certainly, the Genesis story and much of the Torah probably stem from (slightly) older material, but vast chunks of the material were at a minimum heavily influenced. Angels are probably zoroastrian in origin, as is much of the underlying philosophy. At a minimum, modern Judaism has heavily syncretized many elements from the ancient Zian practices.

אִיוֹב /lyob/Job and  קֹהֶלֶת /Qoheleth /Ecclesiastes are both essentially products of this. Although I will admit some scholars argue for a more Hellenistic origin for the latter, and I'm showing my bias in saying that.


Don't forget that large portions of the Torah were edited after the fact to remove references to various other contemporary and older Semitic gods like Asherah and Baal when the sect that became Judaism broke away to become monotheists.
 
2013-06-03 01:02:44 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I was referring to John 15:12-13

12"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.13"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.


I knew what you were referring to. But the implication in the Greek is more to give everything you have (your life) than just to die. That's why it doesn't say 'to die'. To lay down your life could just as easily be understood to give it up, ie to hand over your control of it, in the sense that you will suffer or sacrifice for all your days. It does not have to mean simple death.
 
2013-06-03 01:02:51 PM

NutWrench: The purpose of discipline is to live MORE fully, not less.
I don't want to learn how to "not want." That's what people in prison have to deal with.


Westerner. (spits on the ground at your feet).
 
2013-06-03 01:03:10 PM

Honest Bender: "Teachings" are also anti-buddhist.  But I don't think most buddhists would pick up on that.  *shrug* their path is not my path.

I prefer tao.  Don't seek to escape the patterns of life.  Instead, see life for the wonderful experience it is.  We are all one, jump on it.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-03 01:05:15 PM

Honest Bender: "Teachings" are also anti-buddhist. But I don't think most buddhists would pick up on that. *shrug* their path is not my path.


Genuine Buddhists have transcended labels.
 
2013-06-03 01:05:35 PM
Every religion humanity has ever devised eventually is misused or misunderstood and put to evil purposes.

Dosn't make the ideas less valid, just makes the followers human.

/Except for the God(s) thing, which is just primitive mythology that we can't seem to let go of.
//Buddhist.
 
2013-06-03 01:05:35 PM

whistleridge: BarkingUnicorn: "To stop suffering, stop greediness.  Greediness is a source of suffering," said the Buddha.

The "deity of compassion" is  Avalokiteśvara, the most revered of the Bodhisattvas, known  to the Chinese in the feminine form of Quan Yin.  They are not gods but beings far advanced on the path to Enlightenment, who could enter the eternal non-suffering of Nrivana if they chose.  They choose, instead, to remain in this realm of birth, suffering, death, and rebirth until they have helped every other sentient being achieve Nirvana... a never-ending task.

Their love is infinitely greater than the love which Jesus said was the greatest.  To die for one's friends is the work of a moment; to live and suffer eternally for them is a far greater sacrifice.

Strictly speaking, Jesus said "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". Also, "love you enemies". In fact, he even went so far as to say that 'love' was 'the whole of the Law fulfilled in one word'.

So far as I can tell, love could entail either dying for someone OR living and suffering for them. It's situationally dependent.

/ I can't believe I just defended Christianity in a Fark thread


The problem with modern Christianity is that so few people practice it.

/Fred Rogers is the notable exception.
 
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