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(The New York Times)   Colonoscopies explain why U.S. leads the world in health expenditures. We've been taking it in the arse all along. Take a look and see for yourself   (nytimes.com) divider line 157
    More: Fail, United States, costs, Commonwealth Fund, health care markets, international federation, market failure, East Hartford, out-of-pocket expenses  
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14072 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2013 at 5:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-02 12:43:16 PM  
Really in depth reporting.
 
2013-06-02 12:47:04 PM  
But the free market!
 
2013-06-02 01:23:57 PM  

Ender's: Really in depth reporting.


Know how I know you didn't RTFA?
 
2013-06-02 01:39:33 PM  
This is the same thing that I've been saying for years.  The ACA does a lot of great things to make sure that everyone can get coverage, but it does very little to try to control costs, which is the other major half of the problem.

We either need a single payer system where the costs can be controlled through simply allowing only a reasonable amount for reimbursements, or we need official government mandated price lists for procedures that all medical facilities are bound by law to abide by.

The lobbying and sales tactics used by pharmaceutical companies also need to be examined.  I had bronchitis two times, about a year apart, and went to two different facilities for treatment due to my insurance company changing between the two instances.  In both cases it was a high deductible plan, so I payed for the medication out of pocket (no coverage kicks in until after I've spent $5,000 in a calendar year).  The first doctor prescribed a generic steroid in pill form that only cost $12 and worked extremely well.  The second prescribed some crazy inhaler thing that was only available in a brand name, and when I went to get it filled discovered it was $250.  I called him to explain that the cheap medicine before worked out well, and asked he change he prescription to that, and while he did change the prescription it was just to another brand-name-only option that cost $179.

I'm sure for some people those expensive options work better, but I'd much rather spend less than 1/10th the amount on a generic that will give me more or less the same results.
 
2013-06-02 01:46:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The lobbying and sales tactics used by pharmaceutical companies also need to be examined.


As do the costs for medical equipment.  It's absolutely outrageous what they charge hospitals to purchase the furnishings (like beds and some such) they need.
 
2013-06-02 02:32:21 PM  

hoots_toot_ochaye: TuteTibiImperes: The lobbying and sales tactics used by pharmaceutical companies also need to be examined.

As do the costs for medical equipment.  It's absolutely outrageous what they charge hospitals to purchase the furnishings (like beds and some such) they need.


And while we're on it, tort reform.  Limiting medical costs will likely in some way reduce current doctor's salaries, but if medical malpractice insurance costs could also be reduced through limiting rewards and the conditions under which doctors and hospitals could be sued for malpractice, doctors could make less and still take home more money.
 
2013-06-02 05:28:50 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: Butt the free market!


ftfy
 
2013-06-02 05:28:58 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: But the free market!


Ha, you think this is a free market? It's more distorted than Mel Gibson on a fifth through a microphone plugged into a bank of distortion pedals feeding a Peavy cranked to 11.
 
2013-06-02 05:29:29 PM  
Even for an infographic, that's a shiatty headline. Colonoscopies cost more than twice as much in Spain. MRIs cost four times as much as another arbitrary comparative country. There should have been a table with multiple countries' costs for those procedures and medicines and not just this seemingly random snippets of goddammit whoever wrote TFA, go kill yourself for this vapid, useless bullshiat. You are polluting information.
 
2013-06-02 05:30:52 PM  
Here's a big part of what drives up costs:
www.spygun.com
 
2013-06-02 05:32:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: We either need a single payer system where the costs can be controlled through simply allowing only a reasonable amount for reimbursements, or we need official government mandated price lists for procedures that all medical facilities are bound by law to abide by.


We're not going to get any of these anytime soon, IMHO. Too many of the Boomer ( and older ) contingent is brainwashed by Fox News & talk radio to go along with real health care reform.
 
2013-06-02 05:33:22 PM  
I've always wondered... Would cheap meds for the rest of the world get developed if Americans weren't subsidizing them? I mean, Viagra might be great stuff but would they have been looking to treat angina if they didn't know they could bully insurance companies into paying for it?
 
2013-06-02 05:34:13 PM  
You just can't be too safe. The 7 day prescription for Vicodin is a bonus.
 
2013-06-02 05:34:51 PM  
Goddammit, that was an ugly kneejerk reaction. There's an entire goddamn story below the fold. Looking at the page on 1920 by 1080, you know what I see? Not shiatting you, this is the view (with white space for where the banner ad undoubtedly went).

i.imgur.com

Had a "hey, wait a second" moment and loaded the page again, and SCROLLED DOWN. Now I feel like an asshole. Sorry about that.

TFA writer, don't kill yourself, you're doing good work. NYT Web designer, learn the value of placing text above the farking fold. Put the infographic either under the first graf, or lower on the page with an eye-catching non-information graphic to indicate there's a whole story to go through.
 
2013-06-02 05:35:30 PM  
A 40-year-old at my office was diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer last week >.<
 
2013-06-02 05:35:46 PM  

Arthur Jumbles: But the free market!


There is no free market in health care.  Even in the best of circumstances healthcare has relatively inelastic demand.  In our system, our employer purchases the insurance for us and the insurance purchases the healthcare.

In a free market, the consumer would be making informed choices rather than having choices made for them.

But every reform proposed takes more and more choice away from the consumer.

Health insurance should be more like auto insurance.  In that market, there are companies that are competing for your money.  But auto insurance doesn't cover basic maintenance like oil changes, tire rotation, birth control or flu shots so people would have to accept paying more out of pocket.
 
2013-06-02 05:38:28 PM  

Bloody William: Goddammit, that was an ugly kneejerk reaction. There's an entire goddamn story below the fold. Looking at the page on 1920 by 1080, you know what I see? Not shiatting you, this is the view (with white space for where the banner ad undoubtedly went).

[i.imgur.com image 600x508]

Had a "hey, wait a second" moment and loaded the page again, and SCROLLED DOWN. Now I feel like an asshole. Sorry about that.

TFA writer, don't kill yourself, you're doing good work. NYT Web designer, learn the value of placing text above the farking fold. Put the infographic either under the first graf, or lower on the page with an eye-catching non-information graphic to indicate there's a whole story to go through.


Well you clicked on the article.  That's 90% more than I do 80% of the time.
 
2013-06-02 05:38:31 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: This is the same thing that I've been saying for years.  The ACA does a lot of great things to make sure that everyone can get coverage, but it does very little to try to control costs, which is the other major half of the problem.

We either need a single payer system where the costs can be controlled through simply allowing only a reasonable amount for reimbursements, or we need official government mandated price lists for procedures that all medical facilities are bound by law to abide by.

The lobbying and sales tactics used by pharmaceutical companies also need to be examined.  I had bronchitis two times, about a year apart, and went to two different facilities for treatment due to my insurance company changing between the two instances.  In both cases it was a high deductible plan, so I payed for the medication out of pocket (no coverage kicks in until after I've spent $5,000 in a calendar year).  The first doctor prescribed a generic steroid in pill form that only cost $12 and worked extremely well.  The second prescribed some crazy inhaler thing that was only available in a brand name, and when I went to get it filled discovered it was $250.  I called him to explain that the cheap medicine before worked out well, and asked he change he prescription to that, and while he did change the prescription it was just to another brand-name-only option that cost $179.

I'm sure for some people those expensive options work better, but I'd much rather spend less than 1/10th the amount on a generic that will give me more or less the same results.


You can't change the entire system overnight. It would literally tear the economy apart. Look at the numbers involved. Look at the investments made by insurance companies that provide scarcity in assets that also prop up the assets of retirees and soon-to-be retirees. You have to go one layer at a time or we end up with another economic freefall. I am disappointed in how little Obamacare can do but I was in the insurance business while it was going through and there are a lot of things on the back-end that have to be carefully dealt with. Saying "We're nationalizing it all" would literally start a revolution, I think. Look at how much push-back has occurred over how little change. It has to be one facet of the problem at a time.
 
2013-06-02 05:38:31 PM  

taxandspend: Bloody William: Even for an infographic, that's a shiatty headline. Colonoscopies cost more than twice as much in Spain. MRIs cost four times as much as another arbitrary comparative country. There should have been a table with multiple countries' costs for those procedures and medicines and not just this seemingly random snippets of goddammit whoever wrote TFA, go kill yourself for this vapid, useless bullshiat. You are polluting information.

How's this:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/high-cost-of-me d ical-procedures-in-the-us/


Now that's a pretty great infographic. Well, the info part's great. You don't have to go full-USA Today, but a little more flair would help that out. It's informative, though. And sad.
 
2013-06-02 05:39:21 PM  

ginandbacon: Ender's: Really in depth reporting.

Know how I know you didn't RTFA?


In depth. Like butt secks. Like taking it in the butt. Like anal penetration with a penis (or whatever).

I lol'd.
 
2013-06-02 05:43:04 PM  
BolloxReader:

You can't change the entire system overnight. It would literally tear the economy apart.

No, it would not.
 
2013-06-02 05:43:15 PM  

ginandbacon: Ender's: Really in depth reporting.

Know how I know you didn't RTFA?


fc06.deviantart.net
 
2013-06-02 05:44:50 PM  
I'm literally going to start punching random strangers in the face when they use the word literally all willy-nilly for any purpose they feel like.
 
2013-06-02 05:45:33 PM  
We could easily bring it under control but SOCIALISM!

Where we are actually headed is something akin to the Chinese System where the "haves" get top quality care and everyone else gets to die quickly to make room for 50 others waiting.
 
2013-06-02 05:47:07 PM  

nmemkha: We could easily bring it under control but SOCIALISM!

Where we are actually headed is something akin to the Chinese System where the "haves" get top quality care and everyone else gets to die quickly to make room for 50 others waiting.


The Chinese system is to drink a cup of warm water.  Or go abroad.
 
2013-06-02 05:48:55 PM  
I had a colonoscopy "discounted" to $3,500 because I have no insurance.

Afterwards I figured out I could have flown to Costa Rica for a vacation and a colonoscopy for about $2,000
 
2013-06-02 05:50:33 PM  
Even the way this headline is titled is wrong. US "Leads" the World in Health Expenditures. WTF? As if price gouging is something to aspire to.
 
2013-06-02 05:50:49 PM  
People need to pay more than a copay for procedures like these otherwise there just isn't the incentive to cut costs.  People figure, what the hell I'm already paying a ton for insurance I better get something out of that money.  And research keeps on showing that tests like colonoscopies, mammograms,and the PSA test can be detrimental for those who don't fit a specific demographic, so those who insist on them are just wasting money.  On the other hand, if you do have symptoms you should go to a doctor, but screening tests on healthy people generally aren't worth it.
 
2013-06-02 05:51:29 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: This is the same thing that I've been saying for years.  The ACA does a lot of great things to make sure that everyone can get coverage, but it does very little to try to control costs, which is the other major half of the problem.

We either need a single payer system where the costs can be controlled through simply allowing only a reasonable amount for reimbursements, or we need official government mandated price lists for procedures that all medical facilities are bound by law to abide by.

The lobbying and sales tactics used by pharmaceutical companies also need to be examined.  I had bronchitis two times, about a year apart, and went to two different facilities for treatment due to my insurance company changing between the two instances.  In both cases it was a high deductible plan, so I payed for the medication out of pocket (no coverage kicks in until after I've spent $5,000 in a calendar year).  The first doctor prescribed a generic steroid in pill form that only cost $12 and worked extremely well.  The second prescribed some crazy inhaler thing that was only available in a brand name, and when I went to get it filled discovered it was $250.  I called him to explain that the cheap medicine before worked out well, and asked he change he prescription to that, and while he did change the prescription it was just to another brand-name-only option that cost $179.

I'm sure for some people those expensive options work better, but I'd much rather spend less than 1/10th the amount on a generic that will give me more or less the same results.


Yup, that's right. The gub'mint will take care of us.
While I agree prices are out of line, I do not believe a single payer system is what is needed nor a 
"price list" made up by some govt. worker.
 
2013-06-02 05:52:48 PM  

show me: Here's a big part of what drives up costs:


In the third world, that machine's function is handled by a crotchfruit hitting a tin pot.

/Yorkshire!
//Sing that beautiful song!
 
2013-06-02 05:54:02 PM  

Bloody William: . NYT Web designer, learn the value of placing text above the farking fold. Put the infographic either under the first graf, or lower on the page with an eye-catching non-information graphic to indicate there's a whole story to go through.


Add an adblock rule for "nytimes.com/packages/html/multimedia/ENTERPRISE-TEMPLATE-ADS/*". Makes the NYT almost readable again.
 
2013-06-02 05:54:14 PM  
Its gotten so bad I had mine done by some behind behind the YMCA for $50.

I'm still waiting on those results ...
 
2013-06-02 05:55:14 PM  

nmemkha: Its gotten so bad I had mine done by some dude behind the YMCA for $50.

I'm still waiting on those results ...

/Freud?

 
2013-06-02 05:56:24 PM  

Myria: A 40-year-old at my office was diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer last week >.<


Two things
1: He/she was too young to be screened, so now everyone every year yada yada.
2: I'd love to know if the person has a papilloma virus. I think the real cure to cancer might be a few vaccines.
 
2013-06-02 06:01:24 PM  

megarian: ginandbacon: Ender's: Really in depth reporting.

Know how I know you didn't RTFA?

In depth. Like butt secks. Like taking it in the butt. Like anal penetration with a penis (or whatever).

I lol'd.


Glad I didn't have to say it. There's a reason I like you...besides the hotness, of course.
 
2013-06-02 06:01:43 PM  

show me: Here's a big part of what drives up costs:
[www.spygun.com image 266x219]


Cost over three quarters of a million pounds. Aren't you lucky?
 
2013-06-02 06:02:16 PM  
In many other developed countries, a basic colonoscopy costs just a few hundred dollars and certainly well under $1,000.

In other developed countries, they don't have 70% of the worlds attorneys.
 
2013-06-02 06:03:08 PM  

spacelord321: megarian: ginandbacon: Ender's: Really in depth reporting.

Know how I know you didn't RTFA?

In depth. Like butt secks. Like taking it in the butt. Like anal penetration with a penis (or whatever).

I lol'd.

Glad I didn't have to say it. There's a reason I like you...besides the hotness, of course.


*slips on latex gloves and cracks knuckles*

Someone had to do it.
 
2013-06-02 06:04:26 PM  

ckevinc: Yup, that's right. The gub'mint will take care of us.
While I agree prices are out of line, I do not believe a single payer system is what is needed nor a
"price list" made up by some govt. worker.


It works in every first world country, giving them better results for half the cost compared to the US.
 
2013-06-02 06:04:42 PM  
My travel agent had the same poster.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-02 06:05:22 PM  
Why does healthcare cost so much in America?

Because three or four sets of shareholders demand year on year profit increase.

America spends the same amount per person on health care as the French and almost twice as much as we in the UK do.
 
2013-06-02 06:05:33 PM  

MNguy: BolloxReader:

You can't change the entire system overnight. It would literally tear the economy apart.

No, it would not.


And I trust you can tell us, in detail, with lots of charts, graphs, and evidence, on what either of you base your statements? And MNguy, i had no idea you were an expert economist in the US.  Are you getting a kick out of these replies?
 
2013-06-02 06:06:12 PM  
"Now you're my biatch! Take it! Take it! Take my big black tube! Yesssss." -- AMA
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-02 06:06:41 PM  

jaytkay: I had a colonoscopy "discounted" to $3,500 because I have no insurance.

Afterwards I figured out I could have flown to Costa Rica for a vacation and a colonoscopy for about $2,000


Go to Thailand instead. Every colonoscopy comes with a happy ending.
 
2013-06-02 06:08:21 PM  

Bravo Two: MNguy: BolloxReader:

You can't change the entire system overnight. It would literally tear the economy apart.

No, it would not.

And I trust you can tell us, in detail, with lots of charts, graphs, and evidence, on what either of you base your statements? And MNguy, i had no idea you were an expert economist in the US.  Are you getting a kick out of these replies?


I would, but simply because most CEOs are petulant sociopaths who will throw a temper tantrums that make it a reality (i.e. laying off people, driving companies into the ground and golden parachuting out).

They are already apply the subtle "too big to fail" extortion tactics.
 
2013-06-02 06:08:44 PM  

megarian: spacelord321: megarian: ginandbacon: Ender's: Really in depth reporting.

Know how I know you didn't RTFA?

In depth. Like butt secks. Like taking it in the butt. Like anal penetration with a penis (or whatever).

I lol'd.

Glad I didn't have to say it. There's a reason I like you...besides the hotness, of course.

*slips on latex gloves and cracks knuckles*

Someone had to do it.


Keep doing what you do, cause you're doin' it right.
 
2013-06-02 06:11:18 PM  

Bloody William: Goddammit, that was an ugly kneejerk reaction. There's an entire goddamn story below the fold. Looking at the page on 1920 by 1080, you know what I see? Not shiatting you, this is the view (with white space for where the banner ad undoubtedly went).

[i.imgur.com image 600x508]

Had a "hey, wait a second" moment and loaded the page again, and SCROLLED DOWN. Now I feel like an asshole. Sorry about that.

TFA writer, don't kill yourself, you're doing good work. NYT Web designer, learn the value of placing text above the farking fold. Put the infographic either under the first graf, or lower on the page with an eye-catching non-information graphic to indicate there's a whole story to go through.


It's okay, scroll bars can be confusing.
 
2013-06-02 06:11:37 PM  

Farnn: People need to pay more than a copay for procedures like these otherwise there just isn't the incentive to cut costs.  People figure, what the hell I'm already paying a ton for insurance I better get something out of that money.  And research keeps on showing that tests like colonoscopies, mammograms,and the PSA test can be detrimental for those who don't fit a specific demographic, so those who insist on them are just wasting money.  On the other hand, if you do have symptoms you should go to a doctor, but screening tests on healthy people generally aren't worth it.


This is absolutely true.  Professional organizations have changed the recommendations on several things, doctors are recommending them less often, but patients still want them because they're used to getting them that frequently and the insurance companies still pay for them.  Pap smears, cholesterol levels, that soy of thing.  It's too easy to spend the insurance company's money, especially if you feel entitled to it because you pay premiums.  If they charged just a dollar per lab costs would plummet.  Ever been on a cruise or to a resort that was all inclusive?  People will drink half a cocktail and just walk away.  I've never seen that happen anyplace where they would have paid for it.
 
2013-06-02 06:12:19 PM  
Subby outed himself as a Brit. Americans don't spell it "arse."
 
2013-06-02 06:13:13 PM  
And unfortunately it looks like I'll be getting one of those every other year for the forseeable future, as well as many other expensive treatments.

/crohn's
//single payer please?
///thankful for great job and insurance
 
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