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(Talking Points Memo)   What has been smelled must be un-smelled   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 18
    More: Strange, Pierce County, Bremerton, Washington State Patrol, habits  
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6811 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2013 at 12:12 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-02 09:27:03 AM
whoa, dude.
 
2013-06-02 09:36:11 AM
Can dogs be trained? Has anyone ever tried this?
 
2013-06-02 12:22:59 PM
I don't get it. If over a certain amount of pot is still illegal, why don't they still let them sniff out the pot and let the LEO determine if it is against the law. Don't get me wrong, I think decriminalization of mj makes sense, but their policing and enforcement policies for things like this and driving while high are all over the place right now.
 
2013-06-02 12:24:15 PM
I thought drug-sniffing dogs don't really work, and that they're just responding to non-verbal cues from their handlers.
 
2013-06-02 12:28:59 PM

Arkanaut: I thought drug-sniffing dogs don't really work, and that they're just responding to non-verbal cues from their handlers.


Exactly, they just stop giving them the clues around weed.
 
2013-06-02 12:30:56 PM
Your dog inhaled pot.

/ now your dog wants steak
 
2013-06-02 12:36:13 PM

dragonchild: Your dog inhaled pot.

/ now your dog wants steak


And Funyuns.
 
2013-06-02 12:36:24 PM
www.jantoo.com

DiggidyDan: I don't get it. If over a certain amount of pot is still illegal, why don't they still let them sniff out the pot and let the LEO determine if it is against the law. Don't get me wrong, I think decriminalization of mj makes sense, but their policing and enforcement policies for things like this and driving while high are all over the place right now.


Then you have the cops stopping every two feet
 
2013-06-02 12:48:57 PM
I'm guessing that after a several months of disorientation those departments that REALLY still want to enforce MJ laws will find other ways to bust people for it...

"Yeah you had less than an ounce but we saw you shake hands with defendant B and we believe your intention was to distribute..."


It's going to take a state passing a law that basically says "We don't care if you dump a 500 foot mountain of weed in your front yard and ski down it..." before they stop looking for loopholes to enforce.
 
2013-06-02 12:53:36 PM

DiggidyDan: I don't get it. If over a certain amount of pot is still illegal, why don't they still let them sniff out the pot and let the LEO determine if it is against the law. Don't get me wrong, I think decriminalization of mj makes sense, but their policing and enforcement policies for things like this and driving while high are all over the place right now.


Because then it becomes a search for 4th Amendment purposes.  The whole reason why dog sniffs were not considered searches was because the dog could only tell if there was contraband or not.  Now there is the problem of dogs alerting when there is and isn't contraband.
 
2013-06-02 12:55:21 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to shoot the dogs?
I mean, hell, the cops are already trained to do that.
 
2013-06-02 01:04:26 PM

sprgrss: DiggidyDan: I don't get it. If over a certain amount of pot is still illegal, why don't they still let them sniff out the pot and let the LEO determine if it is against the law. Don't get me wrong, I think decriminalization of mj makes sense, but their policing and enforcement policies for things like this and driving while high are all over the place right now.

Because then it becomes a search for 4th Amendment purposes.  The whole reason why dog sniffs were not considered searches was because the dog could only tell if there was contraband or not.  Now there is the problem of dogs alerting when there is and isn't contraband.


Also can get a escher-brained lawyer or 3 that can argue that the dog alerted on some (legal) weed sitting on the table, and then the cops "magically" found some other drug that's still illegal in the subsequent search.  "My client certainly had nothing but marijuana in his house until the police started looking for something, and then they just happened to find some currently illegal drugs, what a coinkidink eh jury?"Since the impetus for the search could very well have been a perfectly legal item, you now have a (legally anyway) bunk search - defense lawyers would love this shiat.  Hell I'd recommend that people with serious contraband around make sure to scatter bags on weed and pipes around various rooms just to have that excuse to invalidate any searches that occur.

Cases are won on much, Much, MUCH less on a regular basis.  The definition of what constitutes a "good" search and seizure is really pretty odd.  Unnecessarily elastic in many (too many) ways, but also very, very narrow in others.  One of the biggest choke points is the reason for the search in the first place.
 
2013-06-02 01:04:28 PM
I just laughed like the joker for a whole minute.
i319.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-02 01:04:37 PM

DiggidyDan: I don't get it. If over a certain amount of pot is still illegal, why don't they still let them sniff out the pot and let the LEO determine if it is against the law. Don't get me wrong, I think decriminalization of mj makes sense, but their policing and enforcement policies for things like this and driving while high are all over the place right now.


Also, I'm guessing that a dog trained to respond to pot responding to someone is no longer grounds for suspicion/ extensive search.  If a dog that only responds to harder stuff responds, then a cop knows he's cleared to snap the rubber gloves.
 
2013-06-02 01:22:06 PM

DocTravesty: If a dog that only responds to harder stuff responds, then a cop knows he's cleared to snap the rubber gloves.


The cop doesn't give a shiat about the 4th Amendment; this is about making the DAs happy.  Cops will do their thing and commit all sorts of blatant crimes to get their jollies and walk away with your stuff; they never get fired for it, at worst the "punishment" is a paid vacation and if you actually have a significant amount of cash it's jackpot, baby.  OTOH, a bunch of cops busting people over dogs alerting left and right for legal amounts of pot can make the DA's numbers look very bad.

So, I'm guessing this probably came from higher up the political food chain.  Note in TFA the prosecuting attorneys said the exact opposite to the cops themselves.  Sound contradictory?  Ask anyone who's worked in a bureaucracy if they've ever had to work under double standards.  It's pretty much a requirement to make a salary these days.
 
2013-06-02 01:25:35 PM
I see now, this applies to searches where they don't already have a warrant. Thus if they searched a dude because a dog smelled mj, but it was less than an ounce, and then they found an unlicensed weapon or some other contraband, they would have violated his rights as to unreasonable search without a warrant. The laws around this are still a jumbled mess.Perhaps they should put in a provision that smelling any amount of marijauna is still probable cause for a search, as it could be over the legal amount, or better yet, just end all this by legalizing marijuana entirely and nnot have all this grey area.
 
2013-06-02 01:53:19 PM

johnryan51: Can dogs be trained? Has anyone ever tried this?


www.godlikeproductions.com
 
2013-06-02 08:51:44 PM

DiggidyDan: I see now, this applies to searches where they don't already have a warrant. Thus if they searched a dude because a dog smelled mj, but it was less than an ounce, and then they found an unlicensed weapon or some other contraband, they would have violated his rights as to unreasonable search without a warrant. The laws around this are still a jumbled mess.Perhaps they should put in a provision that smelling any amount of marijauna is still probable cause for a search, as it could be over the legal amount, or better yet, just end all this by legalizing marijuana entirely and nnot have all this grey area.


That wouldn't work because the police need reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed.  Possession of Marihuana in Washington is legal, as far as state police are concerned.  Therefore, a dog hitting would not provide them with reasonable suspicion a crime had been committed because of instead of just hitting when contraband is present, the dog is hitting when there is contraband and not contraband and therefore the police would not have reasonable suspicion to believe a crime is being committed.
 
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