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(CBC)   20,000 kg of food aid from Canada to Oklahoma tornado victims denied entry to the US. Your government at work   (cbc.ca) divider line 35
    More: Dumbass, Canadians, tornado victims, relief, shelf lives, tornadoes  
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2615 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jun 2013 at 3:17 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-06-01 08:23:01 PM
8 votes:
I seriously doubt there is a food shortage in OK. It's been well publicized that the best way to help with disaster relief is to donate money to reputable, local charities. Sending bulk amounts of food/clothing/etc. just creates more work for the local authorities who have to store, sort, and distribute stuff that may be inappropriate or already in excess supply. This sounds like a church group and their associates trying to offload a bunch of unsold/expired goods for a tax write-off and publicity.
2013-06-01 08:23:36 PM
6 votes:
I'm sure they mean well and the paperwork demand is ridiculous, but sending stuff like this to disaster hit areas is one of the worst things you can do. There are already lots of donations to the victims of the tornado that hit Moore, Oklahoma and all material goods (food, clothing, blankets, etc.) have to be sorted through and stored properly or discarded. This not only cuts into valuable time that volunteers, Red Cross workers, etc. are putting in, but it's not uncommon for it to be necessary to rent a warehouse to store all the donations they've received.

If you really want to help disaster victims, donate money, not material goods.
2013-06-02 03:21:38 AM
4 votes:

fusillade762: And this is one of the reasons the Red Cross tells people NOT to donate food.


Exactly. They can't deposit food into their bank accounts.
2013-06-01 08:00:24 PM
4 votes:
Do you want strong border protection or not?
2013-06-02 03:22:59 AM
3 votes:
This is why you leave disaster relief -- and your donations -- in the hands of professionals like the Red Cross, and not in the hands of religious ministries.

If these amateurs would have had any sense, they would have checked the logistics of shipping goods across an international border and realized sending cash donations to the Red Cross was more efficient and effective.
2013-06-02 02:13:44 AM
3 votes:
Unload the goods on needy Canadians, ffs.  Then keep your small-time amateur charity out of international aid matters about which you know nothing.
2013-06-02 02:08:51 PM
2 votes:
I live in Moore, on almost every street corner you can stop, step out of your car, and pick up cases upon cases of water, diapers, random clothes, canned goods, gatorade, etc. Seriously, we have enough everyone. Send cash donations if you want to help. That would help us get some more handsaws to break down all the tree limbs. Or plywood, nails, and hammers to make temporary repairs to windows and roofs. Or help out some folks with their deductible on their insurance. Or to get some people some money to stay in a hotel room. A lot of businesses were wiped out, and a lot of people aren't able to get paid their wages still. Money helps us with all the things that we need right now. This isn't a farking birthday present you're sending, it doesn't have to be personal. We know exactly what we don't have, and what we need right now, and in what order of priority we need it.
2013-06-02 12:16:27 PM
2 votes:

wildcardjack: Sauve said the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is now asking for documentation of every item on the truck, including manufacturer's documentation and country of origin before it will approve the shipment as "safe for consumption."

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 326x304]

USDA or Customs I could understand, but the FDA?

Maybe someone doesn't know what he's talking about, maybe someone has siphoned off the contents to resell on a gray market.


I have a bit of insight into this situation, having worked for a private lab that did 'hired gun' work for the FDA.  I'm simplifying things a bit, but this still may make your head hurt.

Customs handles contraband and smuggling for the most part, but they have no way of inspecting the quality of permitted foodstuffs coming through.  After 9/11, getting rolled up with Immigration and placed under DHS, ICE pretty much does nothing with foodstuffs except for testing for the presence of NBC weapons (i.e. - mobile Gieger counters) or smuggled contraband (coke in the coffee), with no interest in the *quality or purity* of what is passed through.  It's strictly a matter of detain/destroy or pass as far as ICE is concerned.

The USDA handles both conditions and quality of foodstuff on farms, be it the family farm down the road or the Big Agra spread that covers half a county.  Once the food goes to processing, the job gets split up.  The USDA has control during shipment to the facility, as well as intake.  The processing company or co-op generally has their own in house QA and QC personnel as well, who are almost invariably in insufficient numbers to actually handle the volume that the plant passes through, and may not have any formal training in the biological sciences at all.  Conditions inside the plant, as well as the finished goods leaving the facility, fall under the jurisdiction of the FDA; except for non processed animal products - which remains with the USDA.   For example:  can of corned beef hash - FDA, packaged hanger steak - USDA, bag of radishes - FDA, carton of eggs - USDA.  Dairy has it's own sets of rules I won't get into at the moment.

The finished product is then under the control of the FDA for transport to distribution centers, then on to the retailers where you pick up a can of Campbell's chunky soup and think nothing about it.  Since the FDA is in charge of food safety during distribution, they handle most of the food importation side of the house; except for such things as refrigerated meat and hanging carcasses, which is the balliwick of the USDA.  Both agencies maintain their own inspectors at control points, production facilities, and their own testing laboratories.

The problem is the inspection program.  USDA and FDA inspectors are not crosstrained, and are not authorized to work on the other's behalf.  In fact, things can get unbelievably turfy in the field.  The USDA also has a whole lot more inspectors handling food distribution - the FDA is a smaller outfit personnel wise, and they have to split manpower covering both food and pharmaceuticals.  If there was ever a good argument to spin both agencies off and combine them, this would be it.

Which is where my old lab came in - we would be contracted by both the feds and the corps to spot check lots, sometimes testing the same batch for both entities, and sometimes effectively being the QC lab for an entire company.  We would also precheck samples for import in order to make sure they could pass inspection.  What did we test?  Predominantly 'Extraneous Materials' and 'Defect Action Levels'.  I went on a liquid (mostly alcoholic) diet for about a month after taking the job.
2013-06-02 10:05:23 AM
2 votes:

Lost Thought 00: USDA is part of the FDA.


Heh. Not true. The USDA is the department of agriculture. It's an entire department. The FDA is an agency within the department of health and human services.
2013-06-02 09:37:54 AM
2 votes:
And this is one of the reasons the Red Cross tells people NOT to donate food.

This coming from the American Red Cross CEO who makes about $700,000 a year, and doesn't want to be paid in chickens.
2013-06-02 09:22:13 AM
2 votes:
Nabb1:
Pretty much this. The one big exception to this is ice and bottled water in the immediate aftermath. As much as I dog Wal*Mart, as Katrina was bearing down, they loaded up a hundreds of trucks at their distributorship with bottled water and sent the trucks in as soon as the storm cleared to give water away. They didn't publicize it or anything, and Wal*Mart was handing out water before FEMA even showed up.

As much as I understand the good of gestures like this (even if on some level they are brand promotion), they have a... ugly-corporate-future dystopian cyberpunk feeling to them.  Or something.  Then again, I'm not standing in the rubble of my home wishing I had clean drinking water...

CarnySaur:
a handy from Anne Murray.

From what I understand about her personal life, any handies from Anne Murray would be clumsy ones indeed, unless you have a vagina.
2013-06-02 04:10:47 AM
2 votes:
Well, in fairness, it doesn't do you much good to receive food when you have nowhere to store it...
2013-06-01 09:01:21 PM
2 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: I'm sure they mean well and the paperwork demand is ridiculous, but sending stuff like this to disaster hit areas is one of the worst things you can do. There are already lots of donations to the victims of the tornado that hit Moore, Oklahoma and all material goods (food, clothing, blankets, etc.) have to be sorted through and stored properly or discarded. This not only cuts into valuable time that volunteers, Red Cross workers, etc. are putting in, but it's not uncommon for it to be necessary to rent a warehouse to store all the donations they've received.

If you really want to help disaster victims, donate money, not material goods.


Pretty much this. The one big exception to this is ice and bottled water in the immediate aftermath. As much as I dog Wal*Mart, as Katrina was bearing down, they loaded up a hundreds of trucks at their distributorship with bottled water and sent the trucks in as soon as the storm cleared to give water away. They didn't publicize it or anything, and Wal*Mart was handing out water before FEMA even showed up.
2013-06-01 08:40:41 PM
2 votes:
And this is one of the reasons the Red Cross tells people NOT to donate food.
2013-06-01 08:07:34 PM
2 votes:

Aarontology: Do you want strong border protection or not?


do you want disaster relief or not?
2013-06-01 08:05:50 PM
2 votes:
(15 years from now)

One crate of KD ....

Check.

One bottle of Maple Syrup.

Check.

One used Calgary Flames sweater.

Check.

One thousand $10,000 packets of new Maple-Scented $100 banknotes earmarked "To Pay Mike Duffy's expenses."

Check. Wait, what was that last one?
2013-06-02 08:47:23 PM
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: 2. Is the food packaged? If yes, let it in.


Oops, you just let in contaminated packaged goods and got 250 people in Moore sick. Of course, this could have been stopped if the recall information matched when they checked the country of origin.

Also, why are people donating food when there's literally 4 dozen supermarkets, 3 Sam's Clubs and a Whole Foods Market all open and stocked within 25 miles? These people can get enough food locally to last them for 5 years if they wanted to. They don't have any place to put the food, so unless they're going to build a house out of this stuff, it's pointless to send it. Feed hungry Canadians with it, they can use it more than the people in Moore can.
2013-06-02 02:11:30 PM
1 votes:

Pinhead Patriot: An aid truck bound for Oklahoma City to help tornado victims will be allowed to cross the border after all.


And when it arrives the workers, mostly volunteers, will have to go through all the stuff that was sent and either find some place to store it or discard it. If they don't have sufficient space then they'll have to spend money to rent a warehouse.

And all this does is take time and money away from what the workers are there for in the first place...to help the residents of Moore, Oklahoma.
2013-06-02 02:06:21 PM
1 votes:
Let's be realistic here. Yes, it was an absolute disaster for the people affected, but it was a tornado. Unlike a hurricane, where the damage can disrupt food distribution over multiple states, the area of destruction was pretty small. There's already plenty of food right there in town. Just send money so groups can buy it locally and distribute it to the people who need it with minimum hassle.
2013-06-02 01:13:16 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: It's amusing how lax people are about border control when they actually 'want' something brought in.

20,000kg worth of crated 'food'?  Oh sure, bring it on in, yeah, we don't need to check or anything.  You're white!


I know. It's often occurred to me that if one were interested in getting into the smuggling business, some sort of high-profile international charity would make a good cover.
2013-06-02 12:48:49 PM
1 votes:
2013-06-02 12:39:49 PM
1 votes:

Delay: Lost Thought 00: USDA is part of the FDA.

Heh. Not true. The USDA is the department of agriculture. It's an entire department. The FDA is an agency within the department of health and human services.


The USDA is trying to protect American farmers and ranchers. Bringing in free food does not help the farmers.

/first Presidential primary is in Iowa.
2013-06-02 12:32:33 PM
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: BitwiseShift: And this is one of the reasons the Red Cross tells people NOT to donate food.

This coming from the American Red Cross CEO who makes about $700,000 a year, and doesn't want to be paid in chickens.

How much do you think the wages should be for running a massive international organization whose main purpose is dealing with logistical nightmares?

Or perhaps you think that since they deal with charity and relief they should offer pennies on the dollar and just hope that they still attract top quality talent from the pool of people willing to do a ridiculously demanding job out of the goodness of their hearts?


I don't know, how much does the Head of FEMA get paid?

I bet it's not nearly as much.
2013-06-02 12:15:27 PM
1 votes:
This is only one of the many reasons why donations should be made in the form of money to a reputable organization like the Red Cross.

This wasn't relief, anyway, it was marketing.  One church sending supplies to another in a disaster area is an attempt to take advantage of personal misfortune to advertise and extend the influence of your cult.
2013-06-02 12:11:26 PM
1 votes:

brantgoose: Don't worry.

Instead of fighting global warming, Harper will just send you more CARE packages.

How are you fixed for hockey sticks? You can build houses out of them. That's what the builders are using instead of 2x4s now.


Don't send the ones intended for San Jose.  The housing market will collapse every year around this time.
2013-06-02 11:32:02 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Because U.S. President Barack Obama hasn't declared Moore, Okla., tornado a disaster area

I was pretty sure that's not true.  Am I mistaken?




I believe the governor of a state has to petition the federal government for disaster relief. The federal government cannot just swoop down without permission from the state. I guess it's a states rights issue or whatever.

/ fark OK anyway they voted Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn into office.
2013-06-02 10:35:59 AM
1 votes:
It's amusing how lax people are about border control when they actually 'want' something brought in.

20,000kg worth of crated 'food'?  Oh sure, bring it on in, yeah, we don't need to check or anything.  You're white!
2013-06-02 09:56:58 AM
1 votes:

wildcardjack: Sauve said the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is now asking for documentation of every item on the truck, including manufacturer's documentation and country of origin before it will approve the shipment as "safe for consumption."

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 326x304]

USDA or Customs I could understand, but the FDA?

Maybe someone doesn't know what he's talking about, maybe someone has siphoned off the contents to resell on a gray market.


I'm pretty sure the FDA is stacked with pharma figures and understaffed for doing the actual protective work it's supposed to do. It's basically just another big force to let the handful of big American pharma companies keep their oligopoly in this country.
2013-06-02 04:13:25 AM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: Because U.S. President Barack Obama hasn't declared Moore, Okla., tornado a disaster area
 
I was pretty sure that's not true.  Am I mistaken?


The President today declared a major disaster exists in the State of Oklahoma and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local recovery efforts in the area affected by severe storms and tornadoes beginning on May 18, 2013, and continuing.   Posted: 05/21/2013 12:51 am EDT
2013-06-02 03:35:38 AM
1 votes:
Well meaning but not particularly well thought out.
2013-06-02 03:24:31 AM
1 votes:
And Canada would do the same thing.  Open borders my ass.  Now, if they had shipped it to Mexico and THEN brought it into the US, it would probably already be there.
2013-06-01 09:25:05 PM
1 votes:

naughtyrev: phlegmmo: "Hey, thanks, Canada, we ... wait a minute ... it's ... it's ... POUTINE!"

Where I'm from, poutine is worth a fortune.

/Had a duck confit poutine two weeks ago that may have changed my life.


Duck confit poutine sounds awesome.
2013-06-01 09:19:58 PM
1 votes:

phlegmmo: "Hey, thanks, Canada, we ... wait a minute ... it's ... it's ... POUTINE!"


Where I'm from, poutine is worth a fortune.

/Had a duck confit poutine two weeks ago that may have changed my life.
2013-06-01 08:24:14 PM
1 votes:
Because U.S. President Barack Obama hasn't declared Moore, Okla., tornado a disaster area
 
I was pretty sure that's not true.  Am I mistaken?
2013-06-01 08:08:52 PM
1 votes:
Don't worry.

Instead of fighting global warming, Harper will just send you more CARE packages.

How are you fixed for hockey sticks? You can build houses out of them. That's what the builders are using instead of 2x4s now.
 
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