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(Fox News)   New doctors spend an average time of eight minutes with their patients. Come on, what else do you expect from that $20 office co-pay?   (radio.foxnews.com) divider line 186
    More: Asinine, Colorado  
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2776 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jun 2013 at 11:48 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-01 08:15:24 AM
A lot of that is because so many people go to the doctor for things that don't really require a longer evaluation, or they're there because it's just a simple follow up to something.
 
2013-06-01 08:42:43 AM
Also the nurses do all the technical work. The doctor just has to read the results from their diagnostics.
 
2013-06-01 09:20:51 AM
This was done in a hospital setting so I believe that. Last time I was in a hospital was for 3 hours in the heart ER. Lots of tests, EKG, nurses, etc. It only took the doctor about 10 minutes total to ask me some questions and then return later to politely tell me I'm a dumbass and need to see the back specialist I've been avoiding for 5 years.
 
2013-06-01 09:21:03 AM
It doesn't take nearly that long to grease-pencil a black "X" on a forehead and creepily intone "DEATH PANELLLL"
 
2013-06-01 09:29:36 AM
So? Eight minutes is a long time if you're just talking about one specific thing/complaint.  I was at the doctor's yesterday for a follow up for an ongoing issue.  He probably spent about 5 minutes in the room with me & 2-3 of them were talking books & films.  All I really needed or wanted him to do was look at the injury & make sure that it was healing the way that it should.  As doglover mentioned, the nurse is the one that you spend the most time with updating the chart/computer & any issues that I think should be covered need to be told to her.

Now a full physical from a doctor that you've never been to should take longer than that but for normal things (especially those that the doc has seen often enough to know what needs to be done (an earache or sore throat for instance)) 8 minutes should be plenty.  I'm perfectly fine with my assorted doctors not spending the day chit chatting with me for 'x' amount of time.  I already know that he's backed up because I've been sitting in the room for half an hour, get on to the next patient.  I'm fine with that because I KNOW that he will spend the time needed if there is ever something really wrong that he needs to puzzle out.
 
2013-06-01 10:11:32 AM
But it is the most perfect health care system ever in the world, and fully designed by Market Jesus!!!!!11
 
2013-06-01 10:40:44 AM
New Doctors also kill people.

Seriously. Look at the rate of death in hospital admissions in teaching hospitals at the start of Summer, when most new first year residents are getting their feet wet. It skyrockets, tapers off, then drops.

dugitman: It only took the doctor about 10 minutes total to ask me some questions and then return later to politely tell me I'm a dumbass and need to see the back specialist I've been avoiding for 5 years.


And he spent four years in an EM Residency learning to read those squiggly lines on the 12-lead EKG and the pretty radiation pictures to know the difference between needing to have a tube snaked through your femoral artery under X-ray guidance, and needing a physical therapist to work you over. Just saying.

At any rate, comparing a family doctor to an ER doctor is a flawed comparison. The ER doctor is only there to treat life threats and make sure you're not going to die in the next 24-48 hours, if not immediately without his intervention. The fact he spends 10 minutes with you is because he has 20 other patients, some of whom might die if they don't get their ten minutes very quickly.

Don't use the ER as a family clinic or urgent care if you don't have to. Also, take comfort in the fact you're waiting in the ER waiting room for six hours. It  generallymeans you're not going to die in a quick manner.

bronyaur1: But it is the most perfect health care system ever in the world, and fully designed by Market Jesus!!!!!11


It's better to be a caregiver than someone needing care in our system. Unless you're Mitt Romney rich.
 
2013-06-01 11:12:31 AM
If the doctor doesn't stare at my yeast infection for at least 20 minutes HE'S JUST NOT TRYING
 
2013-06-01 11:35:29 AM

flucto: If the doctor doesn't stare at my yeast infection for at least 20 minutes HE'S JUST NOT TRYING


Maybe he's having a tough decision on which jam to use.
 
2013-06-01 11:45:46 AM
Meh.  My experience has been that the Dr. will take as much time as the situation warrants.  Need a prescription for allergies?  10 min.  Diagnosis of a pain in my side?  30 minutes and a referral.  The specialist was even more thorough.

/Ulcers suck
//Dexilant rocks!
 
2013-06-01 11:49:40 AM
$20?

You got a time machine or somethin'?

/ $35 & 50 for specialists here
 
2013-06-01 11:51:23 AM
How long do they think a perscription for antibiotics takes to write?
 
2013-06-01 11:51:28 AM

hardinparamedic: New Doctors also kill people.

Seriously. Look at the rate of death in hospital admissions in teaching hospitals at the start of Summer, when most new first year residents are getting their feet wet. It skyrockets, tapers off, then drops.

dugitman: It only took the doctor about 10 minutes total to ask me some questions and then return later to politely tell me I'm a dumbass and need to see the back specialist I've been avoiding for 5 years.

And he spent four years in an EM Residency learning to read those squiggly lines on the 12-lead EKG and the pretty radiation pictures to know the difference between needing to have a tube snaked through your femoral artery under X-ray guidance, and needing a physical therapist to work you over. Just saying.

At any rate, comparing a family doctor to an ER doctor is a flawed comparison. The ER doctor is only there to treat life threats and make sure you're not going to die in the next 24-48 hours, if not immediately without his intervention. The fact he spends 10 minutes with you is because he has 20 other patients, some of whom might die if they don't get their ten minutes very quickly.

Don't use the ER as a family clinic or urgent care if you don't have to. Also, take comfort in the fact you're waiting in the ER waiting room for six hours. It  generallymeans you're not going to die in a quick manner.

bronyaur1: But it is the most perfect health care system ever in the world, and fully designed by Market Jesus!!!!!11

It's better to be a caregiver than someone needing care in our system. Unless you're Mitt Romney rich.


My favorite in the ER was always when the seekers wouldn't get seen fast enough they'd call 911 for an ambulance ride to another hospital.
 
2013-06-01 11:53:44 AM
That's not even long enough for a prostate exam, if he does it right. ;-)
 
2013-06-01 11:55:03 AM

WTFDYW: That's not even long enough for a prostate exam, if he does it right. ;-)


MOOOOOOOON river...!
 
hej
2013-06-01 11:58:00 AM
The alternative to this is doctors spending twice as long with their patients, and having  subby biatch because it takes two weeks to get an appointment.
 
2013-06-01 11:58:46 AM
In for-profit clinics, doctors are constantly pressured to keep the visits short and see as many patients as possible. Higher throughput means mo money.

I'm of the opinion all healthcare should be non-profit just for reasons like this.
 
2013-06-01 11:59:04 AM
Spending 8 minutes in the office is fine... waiting 80 minutes past the scheduled appointment time to be seen is where the problem lies.
 
2013-06-01 12:00:03 PM
After waiting an hour in that small room, my doctor appeared to look at yet another horrible mysterious bug bite that I get occasionally. I told him the stuff they told me to do/take didn't work.
"That's about all we can do."
"Oh. Is there anything I can do to make the reaction less awful?"
"Not really. So we're gonna do the same thing as last time. We'll give you an injection of antihistamine if that makes you feel better. You're going to have to take your pants off."
"I'm good."
"Want some Vicodin?"
*sigh* "Alright."

At least I was less annoyed.
 
2013-06-01 12:03:18 PM
There's also a lot behind the scenes that takes time. When I'm working on a service and we have new patients it often takes ~10 minutes to do the background on them, looking at their chart, history, labs, referral letter etc. After seeing the patient, writing and dictating a note takes a further 10 minutes.

So that 8 minute visit with the patient is usually a half hour of work - it can be much more if the patient has a complicated history or multiple comorbidities.

/medical student
 
2013-06-01 12:03:57 PM
There's really not much to discuss. Ask them what they came for, then sell them pills. If no specific pill seems to fit the bill, sell them antibiotics.
 
2013-06-01 12:04:38 PM

maxx2112: $20?

You got a time machine or somethin'?

/ $35 & 50 for specialists here


I have $10 co-pay for all office visits, specialists or generalists.   My ER/UC co-pay is $75.  This isn't a standardized fee that is set by the physician, but by the insurance plan.  My wife is the HR Director at her company, and picked the plan, she got to pick the level of BCBS plan, and it rocks.
 
2013-06-01 12:05:25 PM

Aarontology: flucto: If the doctor doesn't stare at my yeast infection for at least 20 minutes HE'S JUST NOT TRYING

Maybe he's having a tough decision on which jam to use.


apollokidz.com
 
2013-06-01 12:08:31 PM
Here's the best advice for dealing with your doctor:  Your doctor's not a mechanic, but pretend he is.
 
2013-06-01 12:09:39 PM

hardinparamedic: New Doctors also kill people.

Seriously. Look at the rate of death in hospital admissions in teaching hospitals at the start of Summer, when most new first year residents are getting their feet wet. It skyrockets, tapers off, then drops.

dugitman: It only took the doctor about 10 minutes total to ask me some questions and then return later to politely tell me I'm a dumbass and need to see the back specialist I've been avoiding for 5 years.

And he spent four years in an EM Residency learning to read those squiggly lines on the 12-lead EKG and the pretty radiation pictures to know the difference between needing to have a tube snaked through your femoral artery under X-ray guidance, and needing a physical therapist to work you over. Just saying.

At any rate, comparing a family doctor to an ER doctor is a flawed comparison. The ER doctor is only there to treat life threats and make sure you're not going to die in the next 24-48 hours, if not immediately without his intervention. The fact he spends 10 minutes with you is because he has 20 other patients, some of whom might die if they don't get their ten minutes very quickly.

Don't use the ER as a family clinic or urgent care if you don't have to. Also, take comfort in the fact you're waiting in the ER waiting room for six hours. It  generallymeans you're not going to die in a quick manner.

bronyaur1: But it is the most perfect health care system ever in the world, and fully designed by Market Jesus!!!!!11

It's better to be a caregiver than someone needing care in our system. Unless you're Mitt Romney rich.



Can you expand a bit on what you mean by that? I'm curious.

I know the anesthesiologist in neighborhood just carries a cheapo emergencies-only health policy, because him and his doctor buddies all barter medical services under the table.
 
2013-06-01 12:11:46 PM

maxx2112: $20?

You got a time machine or somethin'?

/ $35 & 50 for specialists here


Different copays for different plans. 20 and 20 here (Kaiser).
 
2013-06-01 12:11:56 PM
Oh Lord, here we go again.

Since most people use WebMD and Wiki to diagnose themselves, then contradict their physicians anyway, maybe we should just say "fark it" and do away with physicians here in the U.S.

Then everyone can be treated by a DNP (50% pass on licensing/required medical knowledge). Simply look up what you believe you are suffering from, come to the friendly DNP kiosk at your local McHealth Center, and the DNP will write you a script for whatever placebo will shut you up. Then you can return home, feel like you've beat the system (those stupid doctors, ha, who knows more than the consensus based knowledge pool of the Wiki Foundation), and die.

Emphasis on the die.

Yet another reason why I want to practice in an under served community- more time to spend per patient, no WebMD/Wiki nuts, people understand the value of what they'll receive.

Our country truly holds healthcare as some mystical, other-worldly thing. Science, in general, actually. It really doesn't have to be expensive, or difficult, and everyone could, and probably would, live longer, happier lives, but most of you are literally so stupid you'd rather support insurance companies/private products, government backed consumerism, and your local sports teams, than care three shiats about science. Sure, you have a phone app that shows you constellations and suddenly you're an Astrophysicist, so do you at least support that. But for the most part America is full of fail.
 
2013-06-01 12:12:31 PM
last couple times I went it was $100 for 30-45 mins. while being made to feel like I was wasting their time.
 
2013-06-01 12:14:27 PM

megarian: After waiting an hour in that small room, my doctor appeared to look at yet another horrible mysterious bug bite that I get occasionally. I told him the stuff they told me to do/take didn't work.
"That's about all we can do."
"Oh. Is there anything I can do to make the reaction less awful?"
"Not really. So we're gonna do the same thing as last time. We'll give you an injection of antihistamine if that makes you feel better. You're going to have to take your pants off."
"I'm good."
"Want some Vicodin?"
*sigh* "Alright."

At least I was less annoyed.


Just go full bubble-boy:

i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-01 12:15:04 PM

J. Frank Parnell: There's really not much to discuss. Ask them what they came for, then sell them pills. If no specific pill seems to fit the bill, sell them antibiotics.


Did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too?
 
2013-06-01 12:17:35 PM

noitsnot: megarian: After waiting an hour in that small room, my doctor appeared to look at yet another horrible mysterious bug bite that I get occasionally. I told him the stuff they told me to do/take didn't work.
"That's about all we can do."
"Oh. Is there anything I can do to make the reaction less awful?"
"Not really. So we're gonna do the same thing as last time. We'll give you an injection of antihistamine if that makes you feel better. You're going to have to take your pants off."
"I'm good."
"Want some Vicodin?"
*sigh* "Alright."

At least I was less annoyed.

Just go full bubble-boy:


The mystery bug would still find me.

They always find me.

Some people are followed by helicopters...not me. Thanks Obama.

And well, Vicodin a few times a year is fun. So...*eyes glaze over* so that's nice...
 
2013-06-01 12:18:17 PM
Fox News Radio lifted a story from the New York Times piece referring to a study done by researchers from Johns Hopkins and the University of Maryland and posted it on their website. Discuss.
 
2013-06-01 12:21:47 PM
I know a bit about doctors offices, i practically grew up in one, and doctors are people...they're different from one another. Some triple book for the money and because there are many people who go to the doctors for petty reasons. Many hospitals and health services corporations give doctors bonuses based on volume.

A friend of mine worked in an internal medicine office under a specific doctor. One day, the doctor was AWOL, and had a full waiting room. The patients were getting restless, so my friend went looking for the doctor. She found her in her office shopping on Ebay, and told her the patients were getting cranky. the doctor said, "Who do these people think they are?!", and my friend responded..."They think they're paying you $200 an hour to be their doctor." My friend was eventually forced out of that practice for her brashness, but the doctor was difficult at best. Yet she received at least two $13,000 bonuses a year because of volume.
 
2013-06-01 12:22:20 PM
Universal healthcare is inevitable (and appropriate).
Suddenly insuring the nation will require large numbers of primary providers.
Where do these folks come from? All over. Med schools, for a while, will need to work on quantity, now quality. Some good ones will get through, but the bad ones won't be squelched.
Then, how do you pay for all these docs? As cheaply as possible.

In 20 years, doctors (generalists) will be ubiquitous and middle class. It's been coming for a while, and it's now the visible future. Is this good or bad? As long as you don't have something unusual or complex, you might live through it...
 
2013-06-01 12:23:16 PM
My Dr spends at least half an hour with me and I don't even have insurance.
 
2013-06-01 12:23:57 PM
I'd be  thrilled to pay $2.50/min for the undivided attention of a decent general practitioner. And I have pretty good insurance as it is.
 
2013-06-01 12:25:01 PM
The best doctor I have ever had spent much longer than 20 minutes with me. She didn't sit in front of the computer and tap some keys while I was explaining my symptoms. She comforted me the day I had received the news that I might have an ovarian tumor (turned out to be a different, and significantly less life-threatening, issue that had a similar appearance to a tumor).   I was sad when she left the practice and moved elsewhere.

Flash-forward a few years. I've since moved to a different part of the country. One day, I saw a pamphlet listing local doctors who accept my insurance. Her name was on there - and I know that it was her, because she has a very unique name. Now I'm wondering if I should stick with local doctors or drive an hour one way to her practice.
 
2013-06-01 12:25:45 PM

Yes please: Here's the best advice for dealing with your doctor:  Your doctor's not a mechanic, but pretend he is.


Interesting. Here's how I see mechanics nowadays. The public perception is that they can fix whatever is wrong with a car - but that's not the case. There's a list of about 20 components that they know how to replace - and that's all they do.

They used to try to analyze problems to find a root cause. No more. They actually try to get you to tell them what to do, or twist things around so that it seems like you told them to replace something. For example, if you tell him the engine stalls on the highway, he will reply "So, you want me to replace the computer then?"

It's especially this way at dealerships, since they can always fall back on having you trade it in on a new car, but even the little guys are this way.

And bonus points for the bogus $150 to read the OBD-II trouble codes. That's horse shiat - go to Kragen and get them read for free.

Whew. Cathartic.
 
2013-06-01 12:25:49 PM
My GP thinks he figured out a clever way to make it seem like he's spending more time with his patients. He will come in and do his basic exam, and ask a few questions, which takes about 5-7 minutes.   It used to be that the doctors would catch up on charting at the end of their day after they saw all their patients, but now that there is a networked online system in each exam room, they do their charting right there and then. So my doctor willsit down at the terminal in the exam room and type up the entire chart visit while I sit there.So it seems as if I'm in the exam room having "face time" with the doctor for about 20 minutes or so.

Problem is, his appointments now run very late, especially if I have an afternoon appointment. I try to get the earliest appointment in the day, but his other patients have it figured out too, so it's really hard to get that coveted first appointment of the day. Also, there's absolutely no talking to him while he's busy typing away on the terminal. He doesn't forbid it, but he won't respond or give any indication that he's even heard me. Then he politely gives me my prescription(s) or advice and sends me on my way.
 
2013-06-01 12:26:20 PM

jjorsett: maxx2112: $20?

You got a time machine or somethin'?

/ $35 & 50 for specialists here

Different copays for different plans. 20 and 20 here (Kaiser).


What's a copay?


Canada
 
2013-06-01 12:26:53 PM
This is outrageous! PAY someone for 12-13 years of post college training at 100 hours a week?! They should all be disgusted with themselves. Taking money for their years of hard work and education, the nerve.
 
2013-06-01 12:27:15 PM

take_flight: I know a bit about doctors offices, i practically grew up in one, and doctors are people...they're different from one another. Some triple book for the money and because there are many people who go to the doctors for petty reasons. Many hospitals and health services corporations give doctors bonuses based on volume.


That's ending.  Most insurance organizations have moved to an outcome based approach for reimbursements.
 
2013-06-01 12:28:35 PM

Bathysphere: My Dr spends at least half an hour with me and I don't even have insurance.


I don't have insurance either and go to a DO. I pay in full 90% of the time at time of visit, and I think she appreciates that. She's very chatty with me, and shows genuine concern for any issues I might have. She also routinely overrides billing and gives me a discount.
 
2013-06-01 12:28:43 PM
Maybe if you brought some flowers or a bottle of wine once in a while, maybe if you asked the doctor how his day has been going, maybe if your idea of an "examination" wasn't just drop your pants, slam bam thank you ma'am, he'd spend a few more minutes with you.
 
2013-06-01 12:29:18 PM
"quantity, not quality."

Thanks, Obama.
 
2013-06-01 12:29:32 PM
Went to the Dr.'s office yesterday.  First time for this particular specialty.  In and out in just under an hour, only had 5 minutes to read any of the ancient magazines.  Only spent about 5 minutes with PA.  The rest of the time was spent filling out forms.  After her visit with me, the PA had to go do a transcript of what she did, etc. for the 5 minutes she was in the room, which probably took longer than the actual analysis and treatment.  I spent more time, each, with the receptionist, the nurse who took my history and typed up the symptoms/reason for visit, and the exit officer (or whatever they call the clerk that checks you out of the office, sets up followups, etc.)

When I was a kid, a practice consisted mostly of a doctor and his nurse/office manager.  I spent a lot more time with the Dr. on any particular visit because there wasn't anyone else to do the grunt work and because we just paid cash for Dr.s visits and didn't need an army of insurance specialists of every stripe.

I don't think the quality of care has suffered from lack of Dr. time but I do know that the cost of health care has skyrocketed in part because of all those extra insurance folks our premium and health care dollars have to cover.
 
2013-06-01 12:30:54 PM
The sooner the computers can replace doctors the better.
 On a scale of 1 to 10, how much pain are you in?   Give me a break.   I got some muffins from Glaxo this morning so here is a script for some suppositories.
 
2013-06-01 12:32:43 PM

dmax: Universal healthcare is inevitable (and appropriate).
Suddenly insuring the nation will require large numbers of primary providers.
Where do these folks come from? All over. Med schools, for a while, will need to work on quantity, now quality. Some good ones will get through, but the bad ones won't be squelched.
Then, how do you pay for all these docs? As cheaply as possible.

In 20 years, doctors (generalists) will be ubiquitous and middle class. It's been coming for a while, and it's now the visible future. Is this good or bad? As long as you don't have something unusual or complex, you might live through it...


Step one: Accredit foreign universities.
Step two: Steal the portion of their population that is both smart enough and caring enough to be doctors.
Step three: Have enough doctors that they can all be working reasonable hours, share any on-call loads, and happily live their lives without "needing" six figure salaries to pay off student loans.

I think there are enough people in the world who are capable and willing to devote themselves to caring for their fellow man that people would line up to do it without the carrot of a high salary.
 
2013-06-01 12:34:07 PM
Spent 36 hours in a hospital they gave me 3 prescriptions and failed completely.
Spent a few minutes with my primary care and he gave me one prescription, the next day I was pain free. So, was the hospital better because they spent more time with me?!
 
2013-06-01 12:34:09 PM

doglover: Also the nurses do all the technical work. The doctor just has to read the results from their diagnostics.


Same sort of thing with the optical and dental techs when I go to see my health plan's dentist or optometrist. But it seems to move things along faster, so I just go with the flow.  Even though they aren't *real* doctors.

/Kidding.  Just tossed in "The Hangover" riff
 
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