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(Detroit Free Press)   Thieves pry Jaws of Life generator off of Detroit fire truck during blaze. Ironic, Obvious and Fail tags wanted for questioning   (freep.com) divider line 40
    More: Ironic, fire trucks, authors, Detroit Fire Department, Moran  
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3005 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2013 at 1:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-30 12:28:36 PM
It would have been ironic had the thieves been involved in an accident they could not be rescued from owing the lack of jaws of life.  Or at least very karma riddled.
 
2013-05-30 12:33:58 PM
$5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.
 
2013-05-30 12:46:03 PM
Jaws of Life are hydraulic... why is there a generator?

Googles... sees there are 'lectric ones that run off 110. Agrees with TNei... $2000 for a decent generator at the most... even considering shipping, install and bureaucratic mark-up (kick backs).
 
2013-05-30 01:59:21 PM
All that water.
 
2013-05-30 02:01:54 PM
This is why we can't have nice things.
 
2013-05-30 02:02:10 PM
Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter
 
2013-05-30 02:02:29 PM

TNel: $5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.


That's its "street value".
 
2013-05-30 02:04:09 PM

TNel: $5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.


I don't think that the fire department buys their generators from Harbor Freight.  They need them to run longer than 5 minutes.

Presumably they need a 'fire department' rated one that has to pass a bunch of extra testing and certifications.  It is sort of like buying marine or airplane parts.  They are 3x or 10x more expensive than the automotive equivalent.
 
2013-05-30 02:04:27 PM
There are some things you just don't do. Stealing gear off a fire rig is one of the big ones.

Not to mention it probably has inventory barcodes or some other marking showing it belongs to D.F.D. so they couldn't hawk it for money.
 
2013-05-30 02:05:35 PM
Stay classy, Detroit.
 
2013-05-30 02:06:34 PM
Stay classy, Detroit.

Meh, who am I kidding.

Go ahead and burn yourself to the ground, Detroit.
 
2013-05-30 02:07:02 PM
Do you have any idea how hard it is to sell a rescue device to a criminal?
 
2013-05-30 02:08:24 PM
I must be getting too cynical, I couldn't help but think the second guy interviewed either knows who took it or wishing he had thought of it first.

/The first guy, I would get off his lawn
 
2013-05-30 02:09:13 PM
The fact that your population is sick in the head enough to steal life saving equipment is enough for me...
static.comicvine.com

Gotham's Detroit 's time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the city has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the League of Shadows. It is one we've performed for centuries. Detroit ... must be destroyed.
 
2013-05-30 02:10:44 PM

SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter


Stuff like that is super cheap. It's expensive for fire depts. because the market is small, dominated by few vendors, and artificially controlled by people for whom price is not very important. Those tools should cost hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Just like the 3D graphics industry used to be -

SGI and 3DLabs: "3D graphics hardware costs thousands of dollars cuz it's super hi-tech and only we can do it cuz we're super geniuses so pay up."

3dfx and Nvidia: "Here are some 3D graphics cards you can put in your PC that blow away the competition and cost $139. Suck it eggheads."

SGI and 3Labs go out of business.
 
2013-05-30 02:11:14 PM
The "generator" is the hydraulic pump that is used to operate the actual tools.  These are generally electric or gasoline powered.  The newer tools require roughly 10,000 lbs of force to cut/spread our newer vehicles - mostly on the cut side.  This is due to the metals they are now using when building cars.  Fire service equipment is most always more expensive then many commercial or residential grade equivalents.  The primary reason for that is the equipment must be rated to properly work in less then ideal conditions.
 
2013-05-30 02:13:01 PM

noitsnot: SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter

Stuff like that is super cheap. It's expensive for fire depts. because the market is small, dominated by few vendors, and artificially controlled by people for whom price is not very important. Those tools should cost hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Just like the 3D graphics industry used to be -

SGI and 3DLabs: "3D graphics hardware costs thousands of dollars cuz it's super hi-tech and only we can do it cuz we're super geniuses so pay up."

3dfx and Nvidia: "Here are some 3D graphics cards you can put in your PC that blow away the competition and cost $139. Suck it eggheads."

SGI and 3Labs go out of business.


You have no idea how anything that you're talking about actually works, do you?
 
2013-05-30 02:13:42 PM
noitsnot:
Stuff like that is super cheap. It's expensive for fire depts. because the market is small, dominated by few vendors, and artificially controlled by people for whom price is not very important. Those tools should cost hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Just like the 3D graphics industry used to be -

SGI and 3DLabs: "3D graphics hardware costs thousands of dollars cuz it's super hi-tech and only we can do it cuz we're super geniuses so pay up."

3dfx and Nvidia: "Here are some 3D graphics cards you can put in your PC that blow away the competition and cost $139. Suck it eggheads."

SGI and 3Labs go out of business.


Again, great and all, but I'd be surprised if nvidia's consumer cards were being used to render something like a Pixar movie...
 
2013-05-30 02:15:12 PM
I bet after all the pawn shops turn these idiots down, they'll scrap it.

Detroit math.
 
2013-05-30 02:17:05 PM

A Shambling Mound: noitsnot: SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter

Stuff like that is super cheap. It's expensive for fire depts. because the market is small, dominated by few vendors, and artificially controlled by people for whom price is not very important. Those tools should cost hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Just like the 3D graphics industry used to be -

SGI and 3DLabs: "3D graphics hardware costs thousands of dollars cuz it's super hi-tech and only we can do it cuz we're super geniuses so pay up."

3dfx and Nvidia: "Here are some 3D graphics cards you can put in your PC that blow away the competition and cost $139. Suck it eggheads."

SGI and 3Labs go out of business.

You have no idea how anything that you're talking about actually works, do you?


I've actually used hydraulic and pneumatic rockdrills professionally.
 
2013-05-30 02:24:29 PM

lack of warmth: I bet after all the pawn shops turn these idiots down, they'll scrap it.


I dunno, Ashley might end up buying it and Les will chew her out about it while Seth says 'I told you so'...
 
2013-05-30 02:27:09 PM

noitsnot: A Shambling Mound: noitsnot: SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter

Stuff like that is super cheap. It's expensive for fire depts. because the market is small, dominated by few vendors, and artificially controlled by people for whom price is not very important. Those tools should cost hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Just like the 3D graphics industry used to be -

SGI and 3DLabs: "3D graphics hardware costs thousands of dollars cuz it's super hi-tech and only we can do it cuz we're super geniuses so pay up."

3dfx and Nvidia: "Here are some 3D graphics cards you can put in your PC that blow away the competition and cost $139. Suck it eggheads."

SGI and 3Labs go out of business.

You have no idea how anything that you're talking about actually works, do you?

I've actually used hydraulic and pneumatic rockdrills professionally


Which has nothing whatsoever to do with lifesaving equipment but hey, it's a start. It also makes it even harder to understand just what the hell you're thinking, given that you're probably familiar with the cost of the equipment you've used. I mean, I guess you are. Hell, I don't know.
 
2013-05-30 02:31:27 PM

Whatthefark: There are some things you just don't do. Stealing gear off a fire rig is one of the big ones.

Not to mention it probably has inventory barcodes or some other marking showing it belongs to D.F.D. so they couldn't hawk it for money.


It's okay, the generator would have just been destroyed by a train eventually.
 
2013-05-30 02:33:36 PM

noitsnot: A Shambling Mound: noitsnot: SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

...

You have no idea how anything that you're talking about actually works, do you?

I've actually used hydraulic and pneumatic rockdrills professionally.


Although is was quite a while ago, I admit...

OK - so maybe I was a bit brusque with the original response. Still, all we are talking about here is probably:

1) A lawnmower engine
2) A hydraulic pump
3) Some hose
4) A hydraulic ram
5) Some hardened shear jaws

The Hurst company makes tougher enclosures for everything because it gets moved a lot and banged around. From the website, they don't even have a very large temperature operating range; just -4F to 133F. Probably making the hoses crushproof and still flexible is the real challenge.
 
2013-05-30 02:33:58 PM

SVC_conservative: Use an electric spreader sometime, see how well it actually works...

Plus you have to consider the environments these are exposed to. It isn't kick backs- even private departments pay out the ass for hydraulic pumps (generators are a bad term) that are portable and generate the proper force to displace or even cut apart a vehicle. They're expensive because it's a niche industry. Tools are swapped out (cutters for spreaders, spreaders for rams) with easy quick-connects, different brands have different limits, and only rescue personnel are going to buy those tools.

Source: I've used these things as a Firefighter


So then... "generator" is not a "bad" term... it's really just completely wrong.

A 10k gas powered pump (iirc) would be about that size and cost about $5k.

That makes more sense. Oh... and don't go jumping our shiat because they called it a generator.
 
2013-05-30 02:34:12 PM

mjohnson71: This is why we can't have nice things.


Like an Irony tag that works?
 
2013-05-30 03:09:06 PM
Actually, in Detroit the fire department ison its way to being charged with starthing fires to burn books that are discovered.
 
2013-05-30 03:16:12 PM

TNel: $5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.


As have been said, they're generically called generators but in reality it is a 5 - 10,000 psi (depending on manufacturer) hydraulic pump designed for harsh conditions.  Probably had the hoses attached too.


5k's about right.
 
2013-05-30 03:17:34 PM

TNel: $5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.


It isn't really a generator.  It's a gas-powered hydraulic pump for the various hydraulic extrication equipment.

http://www.cuttingedgetactical.com/hurstmocultracutter-1-3-1.aspx
 
2013-05-30 03:40:11 PM

lizyrd: TNel: $5k-$8k for a  generator!?!  Holy hell, from the video the one that is in that truck looks like one you can buy at Harbor Freight for $125.

It isn't really a generator.  It's a gas-powered hydraulic pump for the various hydraulic extrication equipment.

http://www.cuttingedgetactical.com/hurstmocultracutter-1-3-1.aspx


That's not what they had on the video but something like that would be expensive.  A straight electric generator should be no where near the 5k range no matter how robust.
 
2013-05-30 03:51:34 PM
Detroit culture sucks.
 
2013-05-30 04:18:58 PM
These are Leftists!  They wouldn't know a hydraulic pump from a gen set from a Lionel power pack!  Explain the function of a hydraulic driven power tool as you would explain sex to a 5 year old.
 
2013-05-30 04:28:31 PM
TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

www.aflglobal.com
 
2013-05-30 06:42:43 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

[www.aflglobal.com image 800x800]


That one is no where near worth 5-8k. The above post was a lot better for 8k. I would assume that one runs about 2k.
 
2013-05-30 09:09:30 PM
Who steals a hydraulic generator off a  fire truck. Who does that?

I'm almost tempted to say a beat-down during arrest for the lives they endangered would be worth it, if people weren't going to read into that statement.
 
2013-05-31 08:36:48 AM

hardinparamedic: Who steals a hydraulic generator off a  fire truck. Who does that?

I'm almost tempted to say a beat-down during arrest for the lives they endangered would be worth it, if people weren't going to read into that statement.


Drug addicts.
 
2013-05-31 10:58:23 AM

TNel: Pray 4 Mojo: TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

[www.aflglobal.com image 800x800]

That one is no where near worth 5-8k. The above post was a lot better for 8k. I would assume that one runs about 2k.


You would assume? And just what do you base that assumption on? Do a lot of purchasing for fire departments, do you?

$5,000 to $8,000 is a perfectly reasonable estimate for a new gas-powered portable hydraulic pump.
 
2013-05-31 11:01:11 AM

lizyrd: TNel: Pray 4 Mojo: TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

[www.aflglobal.com image 800x800]

That one is no where near worth 5-8k. The above post was a lot better for 8k. I would assume that one runs about 2k.

You would assume? And just what do you base that assumption on? Do a lot of purchasing for fire departments, do you?

$5,000 to $8,000 is a perfectly reasonable estimate for a new gas-powered portable hydraulic pump.


Not only that, but general use hydraulic power systems aren't tested and vetted to the various NFPA technical standards that fire and rescue equipment are, and they aren't going to be legally backed if a department uses them in a rescue either.

The reason those pumps cost so much is the quality of which they are built, the rigors by which they are tested, and the environments they are expected to function in.
 
2013-05-31 11:26:02 AM

lizyrd: TNel: Pray 4 Mojo: TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

[www.aflglobal.com image 800x800]

That one is no where near worth 5-8k. The above post was a lot better for 8k. I would assume that one runs about 2k.

You would assume? And just what do you base that assumption on? Do a lot of purchasing for fire departments, do you?

$5,000 to $8,000 is a perfectly reasonable estimate for a new gas-powered portable hydraulic pump.


Because the one above it that has more hookups and is rated for fire departments cost 8k.  That one looks like a bargin basement version.
 
2013-05-31 12:13:18 PM

TNel: lizyrd: TNel: Pray 4 Mojo: TNel:

That's not what they had on the video...

It kinda is:

[www.aflglobal.com image 800x800]

That one is no where near worth 5-8k. The above post was a lot better for 8k. I would assume that one runs about 2k.

You would assume? And just what do you base that assumption on? Do a lot of purchasing for fire departments, do you?

$5,000 to $8,000 is a perfectly reasonable estimate for a new gas-powered portable hydraulic pump.

Because the one above it that has more hookups and is rated for fire departments cost 8k.  That one looks like a bargin basement version.


The NPFA 1936 standard for powered rescue tools (which is what Hurst, the "Jaws of Life" people, claim to meet) is not, shall we say, stringent.

For example, the equipment is required to operate at a max. temperature of 120F - like lukewarm water. Oooh harsh. Mostly the requirements are about labeling. The major obstacles are a 24" drop test and a spec. for opening and closing force.

Standards like this will keep any absolute crap out of the mix, but don't result in some kind of super-machine that's in a class above everyday equipment. I'm sure the fire and rescue stuff is the best available, but I think the lion's share of the price difference is due to political, economic and business factors:
- The market is small
- Buyers are more interested in performance than value
- It's the government
 
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