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(New York Daily News)   So, the terrorists are winning...at converting GITMO guards to Islam, and then having them demand the release of the prisoners   (nydailynews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Islam, Guantanamo, statement of faith, frequent flyer miles, Gitmo, indefinite detention, legal defense, Human Rights Watch  
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4199 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2013 at 11:05 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-30 10:22:08 AM  
lol
 
2013-05-30 10:50:50 AM  
Geee, it's almost as though by pushing to break the will of these people, we have inadvertently provided them with the physical/mental challenge that requires a supernatural form of belief in a G-d to whom "complete submission" is necessary.  Thus, showing defiance to their captors and only submission to G-d.

I hope that this does not spread to other areas we are in (*cough* Afghanistan - *cough* ten years)
 
2013-05-30 11:07:15 AM  
It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...
 
2013-05-30 11:12:16 AM  

gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...


While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).
 
2013-05-30 11:14:59 AM  

Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).


I think you partially answered your own question.
 
2013-05-30 11:15:31 AM  
Expect more of this.
When one country invades another, culture flows backwards.
Romans invaded Greece and got Greek culture.
We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)
Vietnamese food in 1955? Not here. Today? Even farm towns have Vietnamese.

Fundamentalist Christians want us to stomp one Islamic country at a time, and (Shock!) after you do that a bunch of times, you find out that some terrifying percentage, maybe 2%, maybe 10%, of your military has converted to Islam.

You claim to follow the Prince of Peace, but rally that getting other people killed is your One True Way.
Serves you right.
 
2013-05-30 11:17:37 AM  
I want to convert to Islam so I can suicide bomb whomever submitted a link where I have to go through a farking consumer survey to read past the first 4 lines of the article.

Anyone want to take a hit and post the text in the thread?
 
2013-05-30 11:19:31 AM  

Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).


www.twip.org

Something about living in a desolate place like the ME that requires a 'complete submission' to the will of G-d.
Plus, Mohammed was a conqueror and warlord when he founded the religion.  It spread both voluntarily through the area and through the edge of a sword.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-30 11:20:41 AM  

Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).


I think this line summarizes it best:

"The Quran is the simplest book in the world to read. It doesn't have magic. It doesn't contradict itself," Holdbrooks said. "It's simply an instruction manual for living."

Compare that to something like Hinduism, where it would take a couple of hours to explain to an intelligent person how concepts like dharma and non-theistic karma work.
 
2013-05-30 11:20:57 AM  
Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.
 
2013-05-30 11:21:39 AM  

Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).


Pre-Islamic Middle East and Central Asia were not the hot bed of radical feminism that everyone seems to think it was. Islam adapted to the local culture, not vice versa.
 
2013-05-30 11:24:39 AM  
"The people who write these negative comments think they're Islamic scholars," Holdbrooks said. "But they're actually making massive generalized statements about something they have no idea about."

Sounds about like your average fark religion basher.

That aside, sounds like the guy's got a lot of valid points.  Indefinitely retaining people without trial, counsel or recourse isn't very nice.  And we tend to get rather upset with other countries when it's our citizens accused of something.
 
2013-05-30 11:26:44 AM  

Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).



When your options are convert, be killed, or become a second-class citizen subject to discrimination, abuse, and extra taxation what do you think the average pagan-in-the-street circa 700 AD is going to choose?
 
2013-05-30 11:26:45 AM  
Apparently after careful viewing, I've come to the conclusion Abe Lincoln was a Muslim.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-30 11:26:48 AM  

Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.


While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?
 
2013-05-30 11:28:45 AM  

Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)


Lombardi's Pizzaria was founded in 1905 in New York.
 
2013-05-30 11:29:57 AM  

budrojr: That aside, sounds like the guy's got a lot of valid points. Indefinitely retaining people without trial, counsel or recourse isn't very nice. And we tend to get rather upset with other countries when it's our citizens accused of something.


We've crossed a very bright line, years ago with these detainees.  I'm a veteran and a rule-of-law type of guy and my perspective is this:
1. If I were captured on the battlefield, I'd be a POW until the war ended.  That might take a while, but at least I know I'm there and I've got POW rights and protections.
2. If I were arrested for a crime, I'd be charged and eventually work my way to a trial.  That might end in prison, but at least I've had formal charges and a shot at redemption.

With GITMO, however, we're just disposing of a lot of these guys.  Congress doesn't want them brought into daylight (NIMBY) and we act like they're criminals vice POWs yet haven't charged a good number of them with ANYTHING in a decade yet.  We're the bad guys in this case.
 
2013-05-30 11:31:07 AM  
So...

1) In 2003, a 19-year-old guy who was fuzzy on religion converted to Islam. (Happens every day.) Then immediately started violating its proscriptions. (Drugs, adultery, etc.) (Also happens every day.)

2) He saw the conditions and abuses at Guantanamo first hand back in '03, before they stopped waterboarding, etc. (I wouldn't enjoy witnessing that either.)

3) He's one of millions of USAmericans who want the prison closed and the prisoners processed fairly by the criminal justice system. (Trial, etc.)

Welp.... It's Not News, I guess.
 
2013-05-30 11:32:45 AM  
Well it's convenient that he's already at GITMO. Just throw him in the cage with the rest of the animals.
 
2013-05-30 11:33:04 AM  

give me doughnuts: Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).


When your options are convert, be killed, or become a second-class citizen subject to discrimination, abuse, and extra taxation what do you think the average pagan-in-the-street circa 700 AD is going to choose?


That's what people in the anti-Zionist community call the "golden years of Jewish/Muslim relations, prior to the creation of the evil state of Israel".  They talk about how Jews had their synagogues amongst Muslim ruled nations, what they don't say is that they held the keys to those buildings and charged an extra tax.

Quick .edu source:
 In order to continue worship unmolested as well as retain property rights, the Jews and other dhimmi had to pay the jizya, or poll tax, and kharaj, or land tax. Similar duties levied on dhimmi merchants' goods strained dhimmi profit. In the early Empire, the kharaj caused many agricultural Jews to flee to the growing cities.  Collection of the jizya offered an ideal opportunity to humiliate unbelievers.
 
2013-05-30 11:33:52 AM  

dv-ous: So...

1) In 2003, a 19-year-old guy who was fuzzy on religion converted to Islam. (Happens every day.) Then immediately started violating its proscriptions. (Drugs, adultery, etc.) (Also happens every day.)

2) He saw the conditions and abuses at Guantanamo first hand back in '03, before they stopped waterboarding, etc. (I wouldn't enjoy witnessing that either.)

3) He's one of millions of USAmericans who want the prison closed and the prisoners processed fairly by the criminal justice system. (Trial, etc.)

Welp.... It's Not News, I guess.



Oops. Forgot one.

1B) Sobers up, refinds his religion, wants to help people he feels were wronged (possibly by him personally.) (Not only a common, heartwarming tale of maturation, but also one of the 12 steps.)
 
2013-05-30 11:34:53 AM  

abhorrent1: Well it's convenient that he's already at GITMO. Just throw him in the cage with the rest of the animals.


Not sure if trolling... or just didn't read article.
 
2013-05-30 11:38:32 AM  

Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)


lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...
 
2013-05-30 11:40:31 AM  

NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.


The amount cannot be denied to be what?
 
2013-05-30 11:40:53 AM  

BlackCat23: Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)

lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...


While really wrong about that detail, his larger point was correct.
 
2013-05-30 11:40:59 AM  

NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?


Plutocrats 15 (West Fertilizer Company), Scary Mooselimbs 8 (Benghazi, Boston and London).

/And when is SEAL Team Six going to Crawford?
 
2013-05-30 11:42:03 AM  
Living in the Western world and converting to a religion is quite possibly the surest sign of a failed mind, especially one like Islam. He's not just a fool, he's a failed human.
 
2013-05-30 11:43:43 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Living in the Western world and converting to a religion is quite possibly the surest sign of a failed mind, especially one like Islam. He's not just a fool, he's a failed human.


He was probably already an adherent to one of the Abrahamic religions. It isn't that big a leap.
 
2013-05-30 11:43:56 AM  

NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?


Sure. That's pretty barbaric.  Honestly, though, what do you think happens when we launch a missile at a wedding to catch this week's #2?  A leprechaun pops out and invites the bad guy outside to kill him?  We should pull off the gloves and carpet bomb a few major cities when shiat like that happens.  Go back to WWII measures and march all the supporters outside the village and kill them.

America: We're going to liberate the sh*t out of you!
 
2013-05-30 11:45:10 AM  
Wait, all prisoners at GITMO are terrorists? I must have missed their trial... The last I heard - people were given monetary rewards for claiming their neighbors were terrorists. That resulted in people being round up with no evidence to support that claim, extradited, tortured, and then tossed in GITMO. There's also evidence that there are innocent people in GITMO but that there's concern that releasing these inmates may turn them into terrorists.
 
2013-05-30 11:46:19 AM  

Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.


Hyperbole?  Sorry it's early.
 
2013-05-30 11:46:19 AM  

Molavian: NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?

Sure. That's pretty barbaric.  Honestly, though, what do you think happens when we launch a missile at a wedding to catch this week's #2?  A leprechaun pops out and invites the bad guy outside to kill him?  We should pull off the gloves and carpet bomb a few major cities when shiat like that happens.  Go back to WWII measures and march all the supporters outside the village and kill them.

America: We're going to liberate the sh*t out of you!


Who are you suggesting we bomb? Because I believe that guy was a London born and raised convert
 
2013-05-30 11:46:33 AM  
That is what happens when you hire weak minded guards.....prisoners probably even talked them into a little game of Hide the IED.
 
2013-05-30 11:47:15 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Living in the Western world and converting to a religion is quite possibly the surest sign of a failed mind, especially one like Islam. He's not just a fool, he's a failed human.


That's one of the most militant anti-religious statements I have ever read.

It truly boggles my mind when people unironically say "those closed minded religious nuts only believe what they want to believe, unlike me, who knows that G-d does not exist... because... I just DON'T believe, but I have no proof"

Lack of proof, is NOT proof, by any logical method.
I just don't understand self-righteous atheists (humble agnostics, I do)

/I always feel there's some daddy issues at play with the militant atheist blowhards.
 
2013-05-30 11:47:18 AM  

Molavian: NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?

Sure. That's pretty barbaric.  Honestly, though, what do you think happens when we launch a missile at a wedding to catch this week's #2?  A leprechaun pops out and invites the bad guy outside to kill him?  We should pull off the gloves and carpet bomb a few major cities when shiat like that happens.  Go back to WWII measures and march all the supporters outside the village and kill them.

America: We're going to liberate the sh*t out of you!



Rigsby was murdered by two Brits of Nigerian descent. What kind of bombing and drone operations is England carrying out in Nigeria?
 
2013-05-30 11:49:27 AM  

Molavian: NostroZ: Molavian: Islam isn't a threat to the United States.  We're the most violent, warlike culture that's ever existed on this planet.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we have our own internal problems to sort out.

While this may be true... the amount of terrorist attacks on the 'west' by 'Muslim fundamentalists' cannot be denied.

Remember the British soldier hacked to death in the street of London?

Sure. That's pretty barbaric. Honestly, though, what do you think happens when we launch a missile at a wedding to catch this week's #2?  A leprechaun pops out and invites the bad guy outside to kill him?  We should pull off the gloves and carpet bomb a few major cities when shiat like that happens.   Go back to WWII measures and march all the supporters outside the village and kill them.

America: We're going to liberate the sh*t out of you!


I'm just going to refer your first bolded sentence to your second... and leave it at that.
 
2013-05-30 11:54:45 AM  
NostroZ:

That's one of the most militant anti-religious statements I have ever read.

That's a nice rant and all, but unrelated to what I said. Comments have words in them, and as a reader it is your job to recognize them and form an opinion based specifically on those words and create a response related to it if you so choose. You have violated that agreement by using other people or events to create your response.
 
2013-05-30 11:56:04 AM  

gilgigamesh: BlackCat23: Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)

lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...

While really wrong about that detail, his larger point was correct.


The "reverse cultural influx" theory is hobunk in this day and age. While I agree, soldiers tend to bring back a pallet for local food(and women), it's rare for any large influx of major cultural themes to happen anymore, and hasn't been that way in a very long time. We will bring back bits and pieces(such as food), but saying that there's a "reverse flow" of culture is disingenuous at best.  It just doesn't happen on a large enough scale to be considered a "flow" or "influx" of culture. I pretty much disregarded what he had to say at "When fundamentalist christians invade muslim..." It's not the farking 12th century, here. While we have many christians in the services, and they are a majority, I will go out on a limb and say that "fundamentalists" are not.

 I do agree with the idea that the people here involved were likely strong abrahamic adherents in the first place, but I do not agree with the idea that "Culture flows backwards" in the way he used it.

/the reverse flow of culture in these circumstances tends to occur with the influx of immigrants from the lands we invade. THEY bring the culture to us, not so much the soldiers.
//just my take on it
///pretty much all the "examples" he gave were the direct cause of the immigration trends of their eras.
 
2013-05-30 11:57:38 AM  

NostroZ: That's one of the most militant anti-religious statements I have ever read.


Really? How long have you been on Fark? I've seen people on here advocate forcible extermination of religion.

NostroZ: It truly boggles my mind when people unironically say "those closed minded religious nuts only believe what they want to believe, unlike me, who knows that G-d does not exist... because... I just DON'T believe, but I have no proof"


First, atheists are not the proponents of a diety and do not have the burden of proof. That burden is on the people advocating the existence of an all knowing immortal supernatural being who created the universe. Popularity of the belief aside, it is an extraordinary claim.

Second, there is plenty of evidence of the lack of a deity, starting (but certainly not ending) with the absence of any evidence of a deity. I know of none supporting the existence of a deity.

NostroZ: Lack of proof, is NOT proof, by any logical method.


No, but absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

If you enjoy religious faith good on you. But don't try and explain it from a standpoint of logic and reason. It is... not convincing.
 
2013-05-30 12:00:17 PM  

BlackCat23: /the reverse flow of culture in these circumstances tends to occur with the influx of immigrants from the lands we invade. THEY bring the culture to us, not so much the soldiers.


I don't think he limited the idea to soldiers. Reverse flow of culture happens from immigration of inhabitants of invaded lands to the land of the invader. Always has.
 
2013-05-30 12:07:57 PM  

gilgigamesh: BlackCat23: /the reverse flow of culture in these circumstances tends to occur with the influx of immigrants from the lands we invade. THEY bring the culture to us, not so much the soldiers.

I don't think he limited the idea to soldiers. Reverse flow of culture happens from immigration of inhabitants of invaded lands to the land of the invader. Always has.


Which I agree with, and stated outright. That said, that was not the implication of what he wrote. If that was what he was trying to get across it would have been that simple to say so, and not imply that somehow the soldiers are the ones bringing things back. They're not. They're bringing back the taste for it, yes, but generally not the cultural things themselves. In cases like this, semantics matter. Normally I wouldn't bat an eye at bungled wording, but the implications of his statement would be very different in this case.
 
2013-05-30 12:08:15 PM  
Wow, high school drop outs who crave power and authority over people fall for a religion that gives them these rights. Who'd a thunk it.
 
2013-05-30 12:10:16 PM  

gilgigamesh: BlackCat23: Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)

lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...

While really wrong about that detail, his larger point was correct.


Yeah. I was just talking to my dad about this not to long ago. He was telling me about the first time he had a pizza, was about 1950, he said they had to go to another city to get it because the city where they lived didn't have it.

That seemed odd to me. That something so common used to be rare.
 
2013-05-30 12:10:31 PM  

whither_apophis: Carousel Beast: gaslight: It's a safe bet that soldiers drawing prison guard duty aren't the top-drawer intellectuals we see at Mensa meetings. Given that atheism correlates with higher IQs and belief in the supernatural correlates with lower IQs, guess what...

While true, it's fascinating how powerful a lure Islam is - it pulled the entire ME out of their paganism in short order. I've never understood what it is that men found so compelling [about Islam] as to adopt it wholesale and with such gusto (I say men because I imagine the first women to be sucked in weren't too keen on it).

Pre-Islamic Middle East and Central Asia were not the hot bed of radical feminism that everyone seems to think it was. Islam adapted to the local culture, not vice versa.


The wearing of veils, for example, was an Eastern Christian tradition Muslims adopted after conquering Byzantium.

Christianity's own history with misogyny infected other religions.
 
2013-05-30 12:10:45 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: NostroZ:

That's one of the most militant anti-religious statements I have ever read.

That's a nice rant and all, but unrelated to what I said. Comments have words in them, and as a reader it is your job to recognize them and form an opinion based specifically on those words and create a response related to it if you so choose. You have violated that agreement by using other people or events to create your response.


Uh-huh, thank you guy named "God-is-a-Taco" for placing yourself in a position of authority (G-d complex anyone?), denouncing what I said, without actually addressing it, and effectively banishing me from your presence.

Yup, certainly not the methods of a tyrannical fundamentalist... NOT!

/For someone who cannot understand people of religious nature, you sure act like one of the most closed-off, I won't listen to your side, religious nuts I've ever heard.
//Also, there's a social contract between people where you don't just try to thumb your lack of belief in a believers face... you've broken it with your name alone.
///Good luck trying to be respectful to the 80%+ of the world that DOES NOT believe G-d is a taco like you, and considers your actions blaspheme (have you read the 10 commandments?  Why hate on something you don't even believe in, son?).
 
2013-05-30 12:13:59 PM  

internut scholar: gilgigamesh: BlackCat23: Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)

lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...

While really wrong about that detail, his larger point was correct.

Yeah. I was just talking to my dad about this not to long ago. He was telling me about the first time he had a pizza, was about 1950, he said they had to go to another city to get it because the city where they lived didn't have it.

That seemed odd to me. That something so common used to be rare.


I don't think Italy is a good example.

Vietnamese cultural impact on the US in the past 40 years or so is unmistakably a result of our invasion there. Another good recent example is Algerian and Tunisian culture in France following French colonial incursions into north Africa.
 
2013-05-30 12:14:59 PM  

internut scholar: gilgigamesh: BlackCat23: Foundling: We invaded Italy and got pizza (find a reference to pizza in the U.S. prior to 1945; nobody had heard of it)

lolwut

Most of the famous, and well known east coast pizzarias came with the early 20th century immigration flux. Including Pepes in New Haven CT in 1925, Sallys in New Haven, CT in 1938, Lombardis in NYC was founded in 1905, ffs...

While really wrong about that detail, his larger point was correct.

Yeah. I was just talking to my dad about this not to long ago. He was telling me about the first time he had a pizza, was about 1950, he said they had to go to another city to get it because the city where they lived didn't have it.

That seemed odd to me. That something so common used to be rare.


My family is from the NJ/NY metro area and CT. It has never been rare to us. Somewhere, we have pictures of my grandparents and Aunt at Lombardis circa 1942. I can understand that it  was more rare outside of major cities with large immigrant populations, but it doesn't make his statement "true" ;)

/pizza thread? No? Damn...
 
2013-05-30 12:15:04 PM  

gilgigamesh: No, but absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

If you enjoy religious faith good on you. But don't try and explain it from a standpoint of logic and reason. It is... not convincing.


Precisely.  And lack of evidence is not evidence either.

Atheism = There is no G-d
Agnosticism = I don't know if there is a G-d

How can someone be sure of something they have no proof one way or another?
Why militant atheism vs. respectful agnosticism?

/Methinks, the lady doth protest too much
 
2013-05-30 12:17:05 PM  

NostroZ: Precisely.  And lack of evidence is not evidence either.


Yes it is. It is evidence of absence. Not PROOF, mind you, but it is evidence.
 
2013-05-30 12:18:06 PM  
Wants prisoners released.
Good luck with that.
 
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