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(The New York Times)   Three meals a day, medical/dental benefits and a place to stay, all free... AND unemployment, welfare and pension benefits? New Jersey prisons have it all   (nytimes.com) divider line 79
    More: Fail, New Jersey, Nabisco, managed care, pensions, Department of Human Services, federal benefits, meals, official misconduct  
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3946 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 May 2013 at 6:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-30 12:10:33 AM  
What about rape?  Do they have rape?

I won't feel that justice is being served if they're not getting raped.
 
2013-05-30 01:17:31 AM  
Inb4 someone bashes Democrats or Republicans

Its not the fault of a political spectrum nor a political party.
 
2013-05-30 01:27:46 AM  
Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".
 
2013-05-30 02:11:10 AM  

themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".


Seriously? Those benefits are there to help those people live. Those who are sitting in prison are collecting checks while poor people are farked around because there are those who abuse this system and we cant let poor folks living in the city game the system now can we?

/Or we could give up on the silly notion that European rehabilitation system works in the US, but that is "fascism"
 
2013-05-30 02:18:02 AM  

cman: Seriously? Those benefits are there to help those people live. Those who are sitting in prison are collecting checks while poor people are farked around because there are those who abuse this system and we cant let poor folks living in the city game the system now can we?

/Or we could give up on the silly notion that European rehabilitation system works in the US, but that is "fascism"


There's also the whole "using prisons as mental health clinics" thing.
 
2013-05-30 02:28:50 AM  

themindiswatching: cman: Seriously? Those benefits are there to help those people live. Those who are sitting in prison are collecting checks while poor people are farked around because there are those who abuse this system and we cant let poor folks living in the city game the system now can we?

/Or we could give up on the silly notion that European rehabilitation system works in the US, but that is "fascism"

There's also the whole "using prisons as mental health clinics" thing.


No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.
 
2013-05-30 02:32:29 AM  
Also:

In 1991, more than half of all state prisoners reported an annual income of less than $10,000 prior to their arrest.1
• While roughly 80% of all U.S. men of working age are employed full-time, only 55% of state prison inmates
were working full-time at the time of their arrest.2
• Only 33% of prisoners nationwide have completed high school, while in the general population 85% of all men
20 to 29 years old have a high school diploma.3
• The United States spend $167 billion dollars on policing, corrections, judicial and legal services in 20014
 and
only $29.7 Billion on Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF)5.


Source:  http://www.publiceye.org/defendingjustice/pdfs/factsheets/11-Fact%20S h eet%20-%20Poverty.pdf (warning: PDF)

So yes, I'd prefer we fix the system so people have a farking chance instead of just warehousing more people in prison than any other country on this planet.
 
2013-05-30 02:34:01 AM  

cman: No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.


Yes, but couldn't we learn at least a thing or two from the others?
 
2013-05-30 02:49:45 AM  
This reminds me of the guy in Gastonia who "robbed" a bank because he needed surgery.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/06/1-bank-robbery-do es nt-pay-off-for-healthcare-hopeful.html

But still I see ads that say "keep IRS out of healthcare." For the first time in my life, I have steady, quality healthcare and I don't see why everyone else can't have it, too.
 
2013-05-30 03:59:40 AM  

themindiswatching: cman: No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.

Yes, but couldn't we learn at least a thing or two from the others?


As long as it's not the bad things, right?
 
2013-05-30 04:17:49 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: themindiswatching: cman: No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.

Yes, but couldn't we learn at least a thing or two from the others?

As long as it's not the bad things, right?


What I would do:

a) Decriminalize all drug related offenses. Offer treatment to everyone and harm reduction (needle swaps, etc.) for the few that repeatedly fail treatment.
b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.
c) Regulate the use of background checks for employment screening. Potential employers should only be able to see relevant criminal history (for example, if the employer is a bank, they only see financial crimes. Daycares and schools see sex crimes/child abuse. And so forth.)
d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.

/the exact details are up for debate
//it'll probably come down to money and "feeling like we need to be tough on criminals".
 
2013-05-30 05:32:00 AM  
It must be so pleasant never having been the perpetrator nor the victim of crime.  Judgmental absolutism must be like a vacation that never ends.
 
2013-05-30 06:19:12 AM  

themindiswatching: BarkingUnicorn: themindiswatching: cman: No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.

Yes, but couldn't we learn at least a thing or two from the others?

As long as it's not the bad things, right?

What I would do:

a) Decriminalize all drug related offenses. Offer treatment to everyone and harm reduction (needle swaps, etc.) for the few that repeatedly fail treatment.
b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.
c) Regulate the use of background checks for employment screening. Potential employers should only be able to see relevant criminal history (for example, if the employer is a bank, they only see financial crimes. Daycares and schools see sex crimes/child abuse. And so forth.)
d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.

/the exact details are up for debate
//it'll probably come down to money and "feeling like we need to be tough on criminals".


e) Eliminate ALL for-profit prisons. The fact that they even exist is a disgrace to this country.
 
2013-05-30 06:28:20 AM  
Whatever happened to dying on a chain gang?
 
2013-05-30 06:32:20 AM  

cman: themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".

Seriously? Those benefits are there to help those people live. Those who are sitting in prison are collecting checks while poor people are farked around because there are those who abuse this system and we cant let poor folks living in the city game the system now can we?

/Or we could give up on the silly notion that European rehabilitation system works in the US, but that is "fascism"


Oh, the irony.
Judges are getting money under the table for sending misguided kids off to privatized prisons, where they spend years in indentured servitude. It's as close to fascism as you'll ever see today.
 
2013-05-30 06:32:37 AM  
Yeah, but how thin do they slice the garlic?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-30 06:32:44 AM  
 
2013-05-30 06:34:40 AM  
It's actually a pretty good idea...

Want to claim welfare? Come live in the big house where we can keep an eye on you and stop you from fighting, stealing, burgling and spending your welfare checks on tattoos, cosmetics and hair weaves instead of baby formula.

And we'll make sure your kids will be schooled.
 
2013-05-30 06:39:24 AM  
This is along the same lines that being a slave should be considered a great thing because you get room, board and food provided for you by your master, right?
 
2013-05-30 06:40:55 AM  
I'd like to see some of the people complaining about this volunteer to change places with the prisoners for a year....
 
2013-05-30 06:41:20 AM  

xria: This is along the same lines that being a slave should be considered a great thing because you get room, board and food provided for you by your master, right?


Oh please
 
2013-05-30 06:41:51 AM  
I also like the idea that as more and more of the wealth in the US goes to the top 0.001%, and thus the worse off the other 99.999% get, the lack of standard of living among the working poor isn't a reason to complain about the rich taking nearly, but a reason to complain about the pittance that prisoners get.
 
2013-05-30 06:42:33 AM  
themindiswatching:

What I would do:

b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.
d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.



Bingo! We have a winner! I have a friend who is an admin at one of the largest public psych hospitals in NH. The routinly have a waiting list of about 200 + people. The budget cuts have caused them both to cut beds (slots) and staff.

As for D, I agree. Very few young kids are going into the trades. And budget cuts have caused most schools that have vocational progams to shut them down due to the "if kids aren't going to college, why provide for them" mentality.
 
2013-05-30 06:52:49 AM  

Hopman: themindiswatching:

What I would do:

b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.
d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.


Bingo! We have a winner! I have a friend who is an admin at one of the largest public psych hospitals in NH. The routinly have a waiting list of about 200 + people. The budget cuts have caused them both to cut beds (slots) and staff.

As for D, I agree. Very few young kids are going into the trades. And budget cuts have caused most schools that have vocational progams to shut them down due to the "if kids aren't going to college, why provide for them" mentality.


Yeah - the German education model is a good one to try to emulate from what I understand, you try to pick up what kids are better at abstract thought/academic achievement and get them to go to university, and also find that ones that are better at more hands on/practical achievement and send them the engineering/vocational routes - but the key is both are considered equally valid/useful/valuable in society, rather than the tendency in places like the UK/US for academic education being the be-all, end-all and vocational training being considered a dumping ground for stupid people.

Problem being it is as much a societal/attitude change needed than just simply a reform of the education system.
 
2013-05-30 06:58:10 AM  
I love how prisoners get medical and dental care w/o copays, but us people working to pay for their care who have no insurance, all we get is the occasional emergency room visit that costs us 10x's as much as the preventative care to take care of the problem in the first place.

/assigning no blame, just biatching.
 
2013-05-30 07:01:53 AM  

themindiswatching: BarkingUnicorn: themindiswatching: cman: No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.

Yes, but couldn't we learn at least a thing or two from the others?

As long as it's not the bad things, right?

What I would do:

a) Decriminalize all drug related offenses. Offer treatment to everyone and harm reduction (needle swaps, etc.) for the few that repeatedly fail treatment.
b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.
c) Regulate the use of background checks for employment screening. Potential employers should only be able to see relevant criminal history (for example, if the employer is a bank, they only see financial crimes. Daycares and schools see sex crimes/child abuse. And so forth.)
d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.

/the exact details are up for debate
//it'll probably come down to money and "feeling like we need to be tough on criminals".


I want what this guy is smoking.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-05-30 07:02:25 AM  

xria: Yeah - the German education model is a good one to try to emulate from what I understand, you try to pick up what kids are better at abstract thought/academic achievement and get them to go to university, and also find that ones that are better at more hands on/practical achievement and send them the engineering/vocational routes - but the key is both are considered equally valid/useful/valuable in society, rather than the tendency in places like the UK/US for academic education being the be-all, end-all and vocational training being considered a dumping ground for stupid people.


I agree.  Plus, as I understand it, the German system still has the concept that *education* isn't the same as *job training*.  Our system is trying to turn itself into corporate training grounds daily, and it's precisely what we don't need.  Education at its best is about learning to learn so that you can adjust through your whole life, not about learning how to use a specific version of Microsoft Excel so that some idiot in H.R. thinks you're worthy to hire.
 
2013-05-30 07:05:02 AM  

themindiswatching: d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted


This is one thing I am a big proponent of, my journeyman had a partial scholarship to a local college but turned it down to apprentice to me, her guidance counselor was furious and tried everything she could to change her mind and when she couldn't she cornered me and tried to lecture me on how I was ruining her life by keeping her from getting the education that would allow her to make good money, well six years later she has her journeyman card and is making very good money (she just sold a custom tele she hand carved to a moderately famous guitarist for just over 9K) while several of her classmates are struggling to make ends meet while paying off their student loans.
Kids should be tested early for talents and interests and offered alternate tracks into various apprenticeship programs, keep the core curriculum the same but instead of advanced math, language or sciences offer woodworking, carpentry (yes they are very different animals) automotive repair, machine shop etc and I believe we could cut the dropout rate big time as well as revive some of our flagging industry.


/ya know ya have a good journeyman when your lifelong clients start asking if she is available to help them, if she decides to open her own shop I will probably have to retire.
 
2013-05-30 07:09:21 AM  
I realize benefits are low in the states but and average of 54.50$ a month?

I'm thinking the last mentioned "...13 state employees had used sick leave to cover their time in prison. (The report said this resulted in "relatively immaterial amounts of improper payments.") " probably account for the biggest part
 
2013-05-30 07:09:25 AM  

themindiswatching: Also:

In 1991, more than half of all state prisoners reported an annual income of less than $10,000 prior to their arrest.1
• While roughly 80% of all U.S. men of working age are employed full-time, only 55% of state prison inmates
were working full-time at the time of their arrest.2
• Only 33% of prisoners nationwide have completed high school, while in the general population 85% of all men
20 to 29 years old have a high school diploma.3
• The United States spend $167 billion dollars on policing, corrections, judicial and legal services in 20014
 and
only $29.7 Billion on Temporary Aid to Needy Families (TANF)5.

Source:  http://www.publiceye.org/defendingjustice/pdfs/factsheets/11-Fact%20S h eet%20-%20Poverty.pdf (warning: PDF)

So yes, I'd prefer we fix the system so people have a farking chance instead of just warehousing more people in prison than any other country on this planet.


How much is $167 billion in 20014 dollars?  Will they even use dollars 18 thousand years from now?
 
2013-05-30 07:09:38 AM  
TFA isn't about the punishment, it's about nobody in state government bothering to cross-check one list against another.

So rest easy - that Sandy reconstruction money should be spent oh so wisely by New Jersey. I figure it'll be around 2017 we start to see the stories about rich beach-house asshats with friends in Trenton being reimbursed multiple times for the same damage because nobody bothered to check.
 
2013-05-30 07:13:01 AM  

themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".


The probability that a criminals life is jacked is usually their own fault, so incredibly well thought out and considered logic is it a good idea to use the public trust to continue paying them after they decided to - as the article mentions...

In one case, a former state employee collected more than $37,000 in pension benefits while in prison for the sexual assault of a minor.

Great, we are paying child rapists (who just HAPPEN to be former state employees) money to get faceraeped in prison.

Sorry, it's call crime and punishment for a reason, rewarding someone for being in prison is not rehabilitation, it's not helping the prisoners victim, and it's only taking money from other programs that have legitimate purpose to the operation of the state.
 
2013-05-30 07:19:20 AM  

d23: xria: Yeah - the German education model is a good one to try to emulate from what I understand, you try to pick up what kids are better at abstract thought/academic achievement and get them to go to university, and also find that ones that are better at more hands on/practical achievement and send them the engineering/vocational routes - but the key is both are considered equally valid/useful/valuable in society, rather than the tendency in places like the UK/US for academic education being the be-all, end-all and vocational training being considered a dumping ground for stupid people.

I agree.  Plus, as I understand it, the German system still has the concept that *education* isn't the same as *job training*.  Our system is trying to turn itself into corporate training grounds daily, and it's precisely what we don't need.  Education at its best is about learning to learn so that you can adjust through your whole life, not about learning how to use a specific version of Microsoft Excel so that some idiot in H.R. thinks you're worthy to hire.


I was one of the lucky ones who went through the pre-voc program in HS, was placed at the college as an IT geek when I was a sophomore in HS, then went on to both a voc college for a year then 4 year college.  I agree whole completely with these two statements.

American colleges have turned into two things, a money sink or a nightmare game of "WTF does underwater basket weaving have to do with a Comp Sci track?"
 
2013-05-30 07:25:43 AM  
Nice to see how many folks believe that prison is somehow a luxury vacation.

Try it sometime yourself.  I'm certain you won't regret it.
 
2013-05-30 07:31:42 AM  
Please Log In

Fark you, subby.
 
2013-05-30 07:38:10 AM  

gottagopee: Nice to see how many folks believe that prison is somehow a luxury vacation.

Try it sometime yourself.  I'm certain you won't regret it.


==============

I know someone who ended up in prison in Florida.  No weight rooms, very little TV, no internet, no AC, limited use of telephone, mail withheld for any silly pretense, shiatty food....lots of white bread and potatoes....piss poor medical care....he still had a police bullet in him which they refused to take out because it was not a "medical emergency".
 
2013-05-30 07:45:09 AM  
My dad spent the last few of his working years as a Corrections Officer. There are people gaming the system inside the jail the same way there are people gaming the system outside the jail. The part that people should be bothered by is that the prisoners actually have more rights the the guards, by a lot. Not to mention the money the guards make in a highly political job doesnt nearly cover the personal risk they take from day to day. The whole thing really is chaos. Read up on the impacts on the CO's lives..divorce rate, mental breakdowns etc. The only silver lining is most of these inmates are EXACTLY where they need to be, but its more of a zoo than a rehabilitation facility.
 
2013-05-30 07:45:16 AM  

Bio-nic: themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".

The probability that a criminals life is jacked is usually their own fault, so incredibly well thought out and considered logic is it a good idea to use the public trust to continue paying them after they decided to - as the article mentions...

In one case, a former state employee collected more than $37,000 in pension benefits while in prison for the sexual assault of a minor.

Great, we are paying child rapists (who just HAPPEN to be former state employees) money to get faceraeped in prison.

Sorry, it's call crime and punishment for a reason, rewarding someone for being in prison is not rehabilitation, it's not helping the prisoners victim, and it's only taking money from other programs that have legitimate purpose to the operation of the state.


He collected money that was owed to him, through his work. If there's a clause in his contract that he must remain a non-felon in order to receive his retirement checks, I'd understand why it should be stopped. Pensions do not equal welfare.

To address your point about crime and punishment, would you care to qualify that statement? What is called crime and punishment? Is it some nifty television catch phrase, because I do not see any mentions of that phrase in any of our laws.

I ask you, what do you want out of our prison system? Do you want it to punish people, even nonviolent offenders, forever? As we take that approach I see that we 1: Get a sense of just revenge, which would be comparable to the rabble outside of peasants throwing fruit at prisoners before executions of old times, in my opinion.
2: A a system that doesn't mind spending tens of thousands of dollars a year to house, cloth, and feed someone, but doesn't even consider using the time they have to attempt to fix the root problems of a persons life of crime.

If, as I would suggest, we were to go towards a civilized goal of removing revenge out of the equation. We ought to use the prison system as a tool that we, as a society, can use to our own benefit. What we have is over a million bodies sitting in prison. That's over 24,000,000 man-hours wasted daily. which we could spend educating, treating mental illness, and integrating them back into society. SOme people are too dangerous to let out, like murderers, so there's a place for life imprisonment too.
 
2013-05-30 07:46:00 AM  

cman: themindiswatching: cman: Seriously? Those benefits are there to help those people live. Those who are sitting in prison are collecting checks while poor people are farked around because there are those who abuse this system and we cant let poor folks living in the city game the system now can we?

/Or we could give up on the silly notion that European rehabilitation system works in the US, but that is "fascism"

There's also the whole "using prisons as mental health clinics" thing.

No one is saying that isn't a bad thing. Our system of justice is pretty farked up. There are also very different mindsets. There are those who want to execute everyone who enters prison and there are those who think that murderers shouldn't be imprisoned for life. The difficulty lies with the fact that every nation is unique. What works in Cambodia (executions for drug dealers) won't always work in other countries such as Argentina.


If executing people "worked", after one execution there would be no more crime. Yet Cambodia hasn't stopped executing people
 
2013-05-30 07:51:31 AM  
Only getting a login page... anyone want to copy the fulltext?
 
2013-05-30 07:57:09 AM  
I Like Titties And Beer. Do They Get Those In NJ prisons?
 
2013-05-30 08:04:58 AM  

Dedmon: Bio-nic: themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".

The probability that a criminals life is jacked is usually their own fault, so incredibly well thought out and considered logic is it a good idea to use the public trust to continue paying them after they decided to - as the article mentions...

In one case, a former state employee collected more than $37,000 in pension benefits while in prison for the sexual assault of a minor.

Great, we are paying child rapists (who just HAPPEN to be former state employees) money to get faceraeped in prison.

Sorry, it's call crime and punishment for a reason, rewarding someone for being in prison is not rehabilitation, it's not helping the prisoners victim, and it's only taking money from other programs that have legitimate purpose to the operation of the state.

He collected money that was owed to him, through his work. If there's a clause in his contract that he must remain a non-felon in order to receive his retirement checks, I'd understand why it should be stopped. Pensions do not equal welfare.

To address your point about crime and punishment, would you care to qualify that statement? What is called crime and punishment? Is it some nifty television catch phrase, because I do not see any mentions of that phrase in any of our laws.

I ask you, what do you want out of our prison system? Do you want it to punish people, even nonviolent offenders, forever? As we take that approach I see that we 1: Get a sense of just revenge, which would be comparable to the rabble outside of peasants throwing fruit at prisoners before executions of old times, in my opinion.
2: A a system that doesn't mind spending tens of thousands of dollars a year to house, cloth, and feed someone, but doesn't ev ...


===============

US culture retains(disturbingly) a lot of it puritan roots.  How else can you explain the demented ideology of the Tea-Party?  This twisted mortality extents far beyond the "eye for an eye" justice system that punishes poor lawbreakers forever.  The latest "austerity" craze is rooted in this morality of puritanism, because austerity is not based on any sound economic principles.  The profligate must be punished for their sins, and it doesn't matter that he people who suffer the most under austerity were not the driving force beyond said profligacy.
 
2013-05-30 08:05:03 AM  
Wonderful log-in and password subby.  What's the follow-up.  "Welcome to the site"
 
2013-05-30 08:08:13 AM  
It's not justice to tax me to pay for luxury items for inmates that I cannot afford myself.

We have a clown up her in Vermont that kidnapped a woman in her 70s, shot her in the head, raped her as she was dying and left to to die in the woods. They just found kiddie porn on his PC. This guy deserves hanging, but we don't have the death penalty. So give him bread and water only for the rest of his natural life, I say. No TV, no books. No nothing.
 
2013-05-30 08:08:50 AM  

Bio-nic: themindiswatching: Considering that once you go to prison you're pretty much farked and will most likely never find "good" employment again, I'm okay with prisoners getting benefits.

/or we can change the system so people actually have a chance to fix their lives, but that's "socialism".

The probability that a criminals life is jacked is usually their own fault, so incredibly well thought out and considered logic is it a good idea to use the public trust to continue paying them after they decided to - as the article mentions...

In one case, a former state employee collected more than $37,000 in pension benefits while in prison for the sexual assault of a minor.

Great, we are paying child rapists (who just HAPPEN to be former state employees) money to get faceraeped in prison.

Sorry, it's call crime and punishment for a reason, rewarding someone for being in prison is not rehabilitation, it's not helping the prisoners victim, and it's only taking money from other programs that have legitimate purpose to the operation of the state.


If the pension is compensation for past services rendered, and was already earned prior to entering prison...I don't get the issue with that one. If it was a distribution from a 401 (k) plan, would that be just as bad?
 
2013-05-30 08:09:06 AM  
themindiswatching:

What I would do:

a) Decriminalize all drug related offenses. Offer treatment to everyone and harm reduction (needle swaps, etc.) for the few that repeatedly fail treatment.

b) Fund mental healthcare again. People should be able to receive inpatient therapy (if necessary) for as long as it takes, as well as anything needed on the outside.

c) Regulate the use of background checks for employment screening. Potential employers should only be able to see relevant criminal history (for example, if the employer is a bank, they only see financial crimes. Daycares and schools see sex crimes/child abuse. And so forth.)

d) Treat teachers a whole hell of a lot better than we do now. Provide financial, etc. incentives to attract top talent from universities and the private sector. Some kids are much better served by working in the trades, so provide apprenticeships and such if wanted.


A) Agree.
B) Agree.
C) Mostly agree.

I think instead of asking "Have you ever been convicted of a felony" the two questions should be "Are you currently on probation?" and "Are you currently on a sex offender list?"

Of course that second question should only be asked after the issues with sex offender lists are fixed:
- Not being on the list for life. Either for a fixed time or you get automatic reviews every two years or so.
- Only being on the list for serious sex crimes

D) Agree.
 
2013-05-30 08:16:49 AM  

LucklessWonder: I Like Titties And Beer. Do They Get Those In NJ prisons?


idk, try it then tell us
 
2013-05-30 08:21:13 AM  
It's so strange. It's almost like, like you need to adequately fund your regulatory agencies to prevent people from gaming the system. You need to spend money... to save more money down the line?

My heart is saying tax cut, but my brain is saying argh...
 
2013-05-30 08:21:16 AM  

Dedmon: If, as I would suggest, we were to go towards a civilized goal of removing revenge out of the equation. We ought to use the prison system as a tool that we, as a society, can use to our own benefit. What we have is over a million bodies sitting in prison. That's over 24,000,000 man-hours wasted daily. which we could spend educating, treating mental illness, and integrating them back into society. SOme people are too dangerous to let out, like murderers, so there's a place for life imprisonment too.


There's a strong difference between punishment and rehabilitation. .

An adult who knowingly, willingly and with malice harms another human being for their own self gratification deserves punishment for their crime (and by extension should receive no benefit in prison) due to their actions  - the type of person that would commit this type of action is intended to contain doesn't need rehabilitation - they need to sit and understand how badly they screwed up to get to this point in their lives - they are already lost as a well adjusted member of society and should be punished in accordance with their crime as laid down by the rule of law.  Revenge doesn't enter into the equation even though you imply that revenge is the reason punishment exists.

Revenge is an act committed by to directly harm another person because they harmed you - punishment is a societal way for the public to handle criminals.  Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with your argument about rehabilitation or its benefits in prison - however prison in every respect is not a place for people to gain the public benefit - it is a place for them to focus on their crimes and perhaps learn a lesson and come out a more well adjusted member of said society.

To go to the point -
 
2013-05-30 08:21:31 AM  
"Please Log In"

Please f*ck off.
 
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