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(BBC)   Chinese hackers steal blueprints for US weapons systems. Apparently they were tired of buying them from Israel   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 86
    More: Obvious, Pentagon Papers, Patriot missile, weapons platforms, F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, combat aircraft, Chinese hackers, Defense Science Board, V-22 Osprey  
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1926 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 May 2013 at 5:13 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-28 06:38:02 PM

Wasteland: NostroZ:
You're not 'breaking' anything to me in stating that you feel you owe nothing to Israel.

You are causing some alarms to say that you wish the USA could be it's own country and was not a pet of the Jews.

That is some real old world antisemitism that I'd like you to get checked.  It reminds me of the Jobbik party in Hungary and how they feel the Roma and Jews have parasited on their country.


Funny, so far you're the one equivocating "Israel" with "Jews," and have been for most of the thread.  Almost as if it were a convenient dodge for deflecting criticism of that nation and its practices...

The political "pets" comment- which was itself merely quoting you- was in reference to AIPAC.  You know, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee?  Unless you'd like to go ahead and explicitly claim that any comment on Israel is of necessity a comment on all Jews, you should probably stop using them interchangeably.


No, I would not explicitly claim that it is of necessity and I would like to point out that I already have shown that I do not consider Israel without fault, like any country.

Yet to say that Israel is not the home of the Jews or that when people say anti-Zionism they don't mean anti-Jewish is ridiculous.  It's one thing to see fault with a country and hope for the best, it's another to ALWAYS see fault with the country of the Jews and expect a DOUBLE STANDARD from them that no other country is held up to.

Here is  Professor Kenneth L. Marcus, former staff director at the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, identifies four main views on the relationship between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, at least in North America:
anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic in its essence and in most, if not all, of its manifestations;
anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are both analytically and historically distinct, but the two ideologies have merged since 1948;
anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism remain distinct, but anti-Zionism occasionally crosses the line into "outright anti-Semitism", while anti-Semitism often pollutes anti-Zionist discourse; and/or
anti-Zionism is analytically distinct from anti-Semitism, but much apparent criticism of Israel or Zionism is in fact a thinly veiled expression of anti-Semitism.

While you may have never been subject to hate speech or hate acts, I have.
This is not some Fark exercise of political trolling as it is for you.
 
2013-05-28 06:38:59 PM
Glad to see Zionism is alive and well on fark since tats stopped posting as much
 
2013-05-28 06:39:04 PM

NostroZ: Darth_Lukecash: You know what, this thread is not about this at all.  Forgive my transgression.

Let's make it about China, not Israel.

I'm not sure China cares about hurting our feelings. They are preparing for wars over natural resources. They have full intentions of making sure their way of life reigns surpream.

China is pretty one sided if you ask me... they want the resources from Africa, but will not allow the rest of the world to their rare-earth mineral deposits, the biggest in the world.

I don't think they are going to start a war to be honest... but then again, they do want Taiwan and I'm sure they would ally with someone who would be belligerent enough to start a WW3.




The key here is two things: corporations and Russia.

The Russians have an historical hatred of the Chinese. However, our current relationship is strained. However, if we have their backing China might think twice.

Right now, the corporations are in bed with china in terms of manufacturing. There onlyHell, the Chinese built a bridge for the San Francisco Bay Area, that was complete crap that they are gonna have to re do a lot of it.
 
2013-05-28 06:42:41 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Fair enough, in glad to see that you realize israel birth had some US support, and I recognize that Israel did Their fighting on their own.

Now what to do about china is the problem.


Ya, I've been doing my best to avoid the Made In China sticker as much as I can.

I don't think they are as united as we give them credit for... they have lots of internal struggle, riots, political infighting.

We just need to find the big dog there and put our support behind it, just like the US has always.
 
2013-05-28 06:55:10 PM

Darth_Lukecash: The key here is two things: corporations and Russia.

The Russians have an historical hatred of the Chinese. However, our current relationship is strained. However, if we have their backing China might think twice.

Right now, the corporations are in bed with china in terms of manufacturing. There onlyHell, the Chinese built a bridge for the San Francisco Bay Area, that was complete crap that they are gonna have to re do a lot of it.


Yeah, the Russian do hate a lot of folks.  Blacks.  Gays.  Jews.  Germans.  the Chinese, not sure where they are on the list to be honest.

I do recall that their communist systems were different, but now that everyone is capitalist, it's ALL GRAVY.  In fact, they may soon be in bed having special relations.

Sorry to say it, but when it comes to alliances the USA is good with Europe, Australia, Philippines, S.Korea, Saudi Arabia (if they don't change power), and India.

India would be fighting China.  Europe would be against Russia maybe Italy (they love their fascism).  Turkey would likely want to get into the game, not sure on which side though.

Enough speculation though...
 
2013-05-28 06:57:35 PM

NostroZ: unlikely: NostroZ: It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before,

er... what?

Errr... ya... get your head from deep inside your rear and answer me where was the United States when ALL the neighboring Arab states attacked the Jews in 1947?

Please tell me about the US soldiers, boats, and planes that were sent to protect the little country from Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon.  Go ahead:

Here's a map so you can point to it and say "America helped here" with blood and sweat;
[upload.wikimedia.org image 350x342]


I'm sure your grandfather was there defending the Jews on behalf of America... Yes?




The U.S. sacrifices 40,000 citizens to the road gods every year to keep this economy floating. An economy that provides billions in aid.

/blood for the blood god
 
2013-05-28 07:04:26 PM

Darth_Lukecash: NostroZ: Darth_Lukecash: While it is true that no American fought or weapons supplied by the government they did supply political backing. So its untrue that Israel would have survived without the backing of US. Israel did get help from the US, the most it could attempt due to the cold war.

It's important to remember that The US just got done fighting in a war, and the population resources was exhausted. And more importantly, we didn't want the Russians to get directly involved.

The vital importance was for the US that the area didn't go commie: they didn't care who ran it or how.

Right, so we're all in agreement then... America helped Israel politically in 1948, meaning, no guns, no airlifts, no troops, no boats... just a recognition that yes, Jews ARE allowed to have a piece of land on this planet.  Which is still a radical thought to some people it seems.


Fair enough, in glad to see that you realize israel birth had some US support, and I recognize that Israel did Their fighting on their own.

Now what to do about china is the problem.


Bomb the shiat out of their ports?
 
2013-05-28 07:22:11 PM
Well that is one of the more beautiful and spectacular total overreactions I've seen on Fark in a while. Hilarious.
 
2013-05-28 07:27:23 PM
I never thought I'd agree with JWP on anything, but yes, big boy pants, you need them.
 
2013-05-28 08:01:00 PM
NostroZ: No, I would not explicitly claim that it is of necessity and I would like to point out that I already have shown that I do not consider Israel without fault, like any country.
Yet to say that Israel is not the home of the Jews or that when people say anti-Zionism they don't mean anti-Jewish is ridiculous.  It's one thing to see fault with a country and hope for the best, it's another to ALWAYS see fault with the country of the Jews and expect a DOUBLE STANDARD from them that no other country is held up to.


Yes, yes.  "I won't explicitly claim that comment on one is comment on the other, now look over here while I argue that such opposition is inherently anti-Semitic and it's ridiculous to claim otherwise."  I suppose you've left just enough logical wiggle room for someone to praise Jews in general without making any comment pro or con at all on Israel, so that's nice.

You should also read a little more carefully- the fourth of those cited views, anti-Zionism is analytically distinct from anti-Semitism, but much apparent criticism of Israel or Zionism is in fact a thinly veiled expression of anti-Semitism, somewhat undermines your assertion- barring your attempt to make a leap from "much" to "all."


While you may have never been subject to hate speech or hate acts, I have.
This is not some Fark exercise of political trolling as it is for you.


You're not the only one who's been subject to hate speech.  Claiming that you personally have been subject to such doesn't actually do anything to support your inferences.  And calling you on having made a horse shiat equivocation isn't trolling- it's merely calling you on a horse shiat equivocation.

There's around six million or so Jews in Israel.  There's around that many again, or slightly more, in the United States.  And there's nothing inconsistent about wishing no personal harm at all, on either or both, while also being perfectly happy if the state of Israel qua Israel were to dry up and blow away tomorrow.  Nor does one have to be an anti-Semite to believe that AIPAC and the like exert political influence far out of proportion to Israel's practical importance to the US; an issue that has very little to do with bullshiat Zionist conspiracy theories, and a great deal to do with a lot of really foolish evangelical Christians and their escatological needs.
 
2013-05-28 08:07:56 PM
Wasteland:
There's around six million or so Jews in Israel.  There's around that many again, or slightly more, in the United States.  And there's nothing inconsistent about wishing no personal harm at all, on either or both, while also being perfectly happy if the state of Israel qua Israel were to dry up and blow away tomorrow.  ...

You know...

Think of how much we would improve world peace if we moved Israel some where safer.  Like Detroit.
 
2013-05-28 08:08:52 PM

Tigger: Well that is one of the more beautiful and spectacular total overreactions I've seen on Fark in a while. Hilarious.


...the irony being that the more you argue against something as trivial as a joke headline, that to a neutral observer, it just looks like it seriously hit a nerve.
 
2013-05-28 08:26:37 PM
Wow, judging by this thread, Successful Trollmitter is Successful.
 
2013-05-28 08:51:22 PM
Welp, take some of their shiat. Then post it on the open web. I mean, seriously. I want to see the latest Chinese fighter plans on Engadget.

Tell them that if they release any of ours, the blue prints and other information about their nuclear weapons get put up on the home page of the New York Times.

It's time the Chinese realized that they aren't jacking with some jerkoffs from central Europe. They're messing with the country that invented the Internet and the microchip. It's our game and we wrote the rules while they were having their Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Backwards.
 
2013-05-28 10:37:20 PM

NostroZ: China is pretty one sided if you ask me... they want the resources from Africa, but will not allow the rest of the world to their rare-earth mineral deposits, the biggest in the world.


The rest of the world has pretty decent rare earth deposits. The US has a pretty good supply in particular and was the worlds biggest producer for a while. Unfortunately extracting Rare Earths from their ore is an environmental nightmare that is either (A) very expensive or (B) very bad for anyone living anywhere near anything contaminated by the by-products. China has the dubious luxury of being able to ignore the effects of (B) without any major political fallout.
 
2013-05-28 10:38:13 PM
FTFA: "The Department of Defense takes the threat of cyber espionage and cyber security very seriously, which is why we have taken a number of steps to increase funding to strengthen our capabilities," he said.

The thing that gets me about all these hacking incidences and assertions of cyber defense capability is, they gloss over the fact that, iirc, a huge number of these compromises are because of phishing attacks.  Seems to me, it'd be better to disconnect these systems from the worldwide network, and also, hire people that are not stupid enough to click links or open attachments in emails...  or, alternately, strip out such content from email messages that contain these things
 
2013-05-28 10:47:46 PM

corq: Wow, judging by this thread, Successful Trollmitter is Successful.


I dunno, man.  I feel that we're two Jews short of a party here.
 
2013-05-29 12:54:03 AM
jidf pls go.
 
2013-05-29 12:59:38 AM

Dr. Goldshnoz: jidf pls go.


No one thinks you're cool for regurgitating ancient 4chan memes, FYI
 
2013-05-29 01:26:48 AM
The Chinese have always been idea thieves.  As a culture, they are incapable of creative thought.  Certainly not in the last 200 years or so.
 
2013-05-29 03:11:33 AM

NostroZ: vpb: NostroZ: unlikely: NostroZ: It's not like Israel didn't survive without America before,

er... what?

Errr... ya... get your head from deep inside your rear and answer me where was the United States when ALL the neighboring Arab states attacked the Jews in 1947?

Please tell me about the US soldiers, boats, and planes that were sent to protect the little country from Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon.  Go ahead:

Here's a map so you can point to it and say "America helped here" with blood and sweat;
[upload.wikimedia.org image 350x342]


I'm sure your grandfather was there defending the Jews on behalf of America... Yes?

Who do you think pays for those billions of dollars in military and economic aid that props Israel up?  And why do you think there are so many Muslims keen on killing Americans?

$3 billion in annual aid is the sweat and the Americans killed over someone else's fight is the blood.

You think they want to kill you because you love the Jews?

Is that really what you believe?  That once you rid yourself of the Jews the Muslims will accept you with open arms?

Wow... you're pretty cowardly and delusional to hold such views.


Well, THEY seem to think that they want to kill us because we support Israel, so, well, there's that.

"The reason for our dispute with you is your support for your ally Israel, occupying our land in Palestine."  -- Osama Bin Laden, 2004
 
2013-05-29 03:49:52 AM

NostroZ: duffblue: What universe do you live in where Israel existed without help from the united states?

Reality my friend... I do recognize and appreciate 'help', but not when there are people who treat Israel like it's America's 51st state.

Israel is its own country and there is no reason to discuss this further on a thread about Chinese hackers into US military secrets.

Subby was scapegoating to bring Israel into this, instead of ask hard questions about international politics and spying between allies.


Israel is more like a brother with a gambling problem, who has a lot of people after him all the time. You give him money to help get him out of trouble, but in the end you're just enabling the core problem.

And in the end, you've given away a good portion of your net worth, and your brother gets his hand cut off anyways.
 
2013-05-29 04:14:44 AM
corq

Wow, judging by this thread, Successful Trollmitter is Successful.

Seriously, this could have been an interesting thread, instead its a bunch of nonsense about a completely unrelated topic.
 
2013-05-29 04:22:52 AM
dopirt

So, what's the next step for the US? Will it start arresting and prosecuting the people responsible? I'm assuming these plans are taken from US-based companies. I had hoped the Chinese would have backed off after their corporate espionage was exposed.

These attacks are mostly done by people in the Chinese military in China, the US has no authority to arrest or prosecute any of them.
 
2013-05-29 06:53:20 AM
I smell bullshiat.

The chinese won't have my designs anytime soon, because I keep them on a computer that is not conected to the internet. Simple.
I have worked for middle-sized companys that had their own private cables between important facilities, so I assume US defence-contractors will have something at least as good.
How can such "secret" datas be accessible from the internet?
It is either a big fark-up, or an intentional leak (maybee of faked datas)
 
2013-05-29 07:43:07 AM
I BET THE JEWS DID THIS THREAD
 
2013-05-29 09:48:17 AM

Wasteland: There's around six million or so Jews in Israel. There's around that many again, or slightly more, in the United States. And there's nothing inconsistent about wishing no personal harm at all, on either or both, while also being perfectly happy if the state of Israel qua Israel were to dry up and blow away tomorrow. Nor does one have to be an anti-Semite to believe that AIPAC and the like exert political influence far out of proportion to Israel's practical importance to the US; an issue that has very little to do with bullshiat Zionist conspiracy theories, and a great deal to do with a lot of really foolish evangelical Christians and their escatological needs.


Sure sounds like you've got it all figured out.

Since you are not the judge and jury on oppression of a group of people you do not belong to, please tell me, what would happen to the 6 million Jews in Israel.  Do you not see the thin veil behind your comments when assert that the land of the Jews should be blown away?

Imagine if something like that was to be talked about in regards to your hometown.  That somehow outsiders feel that your home and neighbors should be 'blown away' and you'd be happy about it, BUT... but... you do NOT hate the people in that hometown... you just don't care about their well-being and wish-ill on them?

How is that not hate?
 
2013-05-29 09:53:43 AM

Target Builder: NostroZ: China is pretty one sided if you ask me... they want the resources from Africa, but will not allow the rest of the world to their rare-earth mineral deposits, the biggest in the world.

The rest of the world has pretty decent rare earth deposits. The US has a pretty good supply in particular and was the worlds biggest producer for a while. Unfortunately extracting Rare Earths from their ore is an environmental nightmare that is either (A) very expensive or (B) very bad for anyone living anywhere near anything contaminated by the by-products. China has the dubious luxury of being able to ignore the effects of (B) without any major political fallout.


I recall reading that China hold a monopoly on rare earth minerals.

They are certainly less environmentally concerned, but also, the huge mountain rang they sit atop has deposits not found anywhere else in the world.
 
2013-05-29 10:30:38 AM
NostroZ:
I recall reading that China hold a monopoly on rare earth minerals.

They are certainly less environmentally concerned, but also, the huge mountain rang they sit atop has deposits not found anywhere else in the world.


The article won't open on a mobile site so I can't comment on the specifics within it but a large portion of why they have the monopoly is that they purposefully dumped cheap rare earths onto the market until it put a lot of their competitors out of business. When the prices start to ramp up (due to China politicking or constricting the supply) competitors have attempted re-entry but its a rough ride when the Chinese can undercut your business on a whim. Look up Molycorp for an example of a rare earth miner and refiner in the US that has had a very bumpy ride due to rare earth price fluctuations. IIRC "Rare Earth Elements (REE) is another company based in (iirc) Australia that is also trying to compete with the Chinese despite having to fork out a ton on environmental costs.
 
2013-05-29 10:55:54 AM

Target Builder: NostroZ:
I recall reading that China hold a monopoly on rare earth minerals.

They are certainly less environmentally concerned, but also, the huge mountain rang they sit atop has deposits not found anywhere else in the world.

The article won't open on a mobile site so I can't comment on the specifics within it but a large portion of why they have the monopoly is that they purposefully dumped cheap rare earths onto the market until it put a lot of their competitors out of business. When the prices start to ramp up (due to China politicking or constricting the supply) competitors have attempted re-entry but its a rough ride when the Chinese can undercut your business on a whim. Look up Molycorp for an example of a rare earth miner and refiner in the US that has had a very bumpy ride due to rare earth price fluctuations. IIRC "Rare Earth Elements (REE) is another company based in (iirc) Australia that is also trying to compete with the Chinese despite having to fork out a ton on environmental costs.


Interesting.  The Chinese are good at bare-bone back-breaking labor and will outcompete anyone on that.
It's unsustainable though and their air quality is a good indicator of that.
 
2013-05-29 11:52:17 AM

duffblue: Glad to see Zionism is alive and well on fark since tats stopped posting as much


If only he would actually stop posting instead of logging in to yet another sockpuppet and continuing the same utterly deranged trollspam that got him ignore-listed by 90% of this community.
 
2013-05-29 02:19:39 PM

NostroZ: monopoly on rare earth minerals


China is the largest producer but they don't have a monopoly when it comes to reserves. They have a market share of 95% only because they were prepared to sacrifice their environment and resources in order to get funds to get their economy moving.   They have now come to a point where they value their resources, and to a lesser extent their environment, more than the dollars, and that is a very smart thing to do.

Other countries, including the US, have just as much rare earth minerals as China has in the ground, they are just not willing to mine them. If other countries want those resources; they just have start mining them.
 
2013-05-29 04:33:27 PM

Spaced Cowboy: duffblue: Glad to see Zionism is alive and well on fark since tats stopped posting as much

If only he would actually stop posting instead of logging in to yet another sockpuppet and continuing the same utterly deranged trollspam that got him ignore-listed by 90% of this community.


He still breaks out the Liar67 alt now and then.
 
2013-05-29 06:39:44 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Spaced Cowboy: duffblue: Glad to see Zionism is alive and well on fark since tats stopped posting as much

If only he would actually stop posting instead of logging in to yet another sockpuppet and continuing the same utterly deranged trollspam that got him ignore-listed by 90% of this community.

He still breaks out the Liar67 alt now and then.


You two are sure quenching your thirst with some Hatorade, when it comes to Tats/Zionism (a basic idea of Jews having a homeland).
www.orbitcast.com

How about you define yourself based on what you do/like, instead of what you don't do/hate.
Be a more positive person.
Is it in you?
 
2013-05-29 06:49:53 PM

NostroZ: You two are sure quenching your thirst with some Hatorade, when it comes to Tats/Zionism (a basic idea of Jews having a homeland).
www.orbitcast.com

How about you define yourself based on what you do/like, instead of what you don't do/hate.
Be a more positive person.
Is it in you?


www.ascendancy.net

That's right.  We just hate.  That's the ONLY explanation for our positions.
 
2013-05-30 12:30:30 AM
NostroZ:
Since you are not the judge and jury on oppression of a group of people you do not belong to, please tell me, what would happen to the 6 million Jews in Israel.  Do you not see the thin veil behind your comments when assert that the land of the Jews should be blown away?

Imagine if something like that was to be talked about in regards to your hometown.  That somehow outsiders feel that your home and neighbors should be 'blown away' and you'd be happy about it, BUT... but... you do NOT hate the people in that hometown... you just don't care about their well-being and wish-ill on them?

How is that not hate?



Yes, "dry up and blow away" means exactly the same thing as "blow someone away."  You don't sound hyperdefensive and as though you're fishing for offense at all, no siree.

As for my hometown?  It's a coal-mining berg that's been in steady decline for decades.  "Dry up and blow away" is what I fully expect it to do, probably within the next half-century or so, as the industrial base of the local economy continues to collapse.  No, I'm not particularly torn up about it.  No, that's not wishing violence or ill on the people there, apart from your sad lack of reading comprehension skills.  (In fact, in the long run, it'll probably be the best thing for the families currently living there as they gradually disperse to greener pastures.)
 
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