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(SB Nation)   The eight worst ongoing baseball conversations. To sum up, A's stadium woes, PEDs and the Hall of Fame, the DH, "proven" closers, regression to the mean, old school vs new school, "most valuable" vs "best" player, and last but not least, WAR   (sbnation.com) divider line 133
    More: Obvious, Mike Trout, designated hitter, closers, baseball conversations, Buster Posey, Andrew McCutchen, Lew Wolff, sabermetrics  
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1297 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 May 2013 at 3:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-28 03:57:40 PM
Ugh, good God, y'all, what is it good for?
 
2013-05-28 04:01:10 PM
What's really played out is writing about what is played out.
 
2013-05-28 04:03:56 PM
The inclusion of the whole A's/Giants territorial kerfuffle seems odd. At least the other seven noted topics are just general "baseball things" people on the internet yell about to each other on a daily basis regardless of geography.
 
2013-05-28 04:12:05 PM
Add to the list:

9.) replay

10.) shiatty umpiring

and you have the 10 reasons I stopped watching baseball.
 
2013-05-28 04:12:22 PM
Luckily, it's all being discussed on ESPN behind their paywall. Has anyone ever looked at the ESPN MLB page? Every damn thing is on Insider now.
 
2013-05-28 04:13:10 PM
the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.
 
2013-05-28 04:16:31 PM
Huh, a certain fish and converted 3b were excluded
 
2013-05-28 04:24:32 PM
WAR never changes.
 
2013-05-28 04:24:46 PM

december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.


As long as position players don't have to pitch, pitchers shouldn't have to hit.
 
2013-05-28 04:26:09 PM

december: 2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.


Not really, since there's not any significant retribution pitchers are going to face. Pitchers aren't going to piss away an easy out just to "make a point." They're going to target a good hitter on the same team, same as the AL. And hitters tend to let their pitchers know in the clubhouse that they don't like having opponents aim for them.

/meanwhile, the vast majority of pitchers (or really, anyone who spends four days off between every game day) suck at hitting.
 
2013-05-28 04:27:17 PM

meanmutton: As long as position players don't have to pitch, pitchers shouldn't have to hit.


If we want everyone to be equal, then hey, there are nine innings and there are nine positions and nine spots in the lineup. Everyone plays every position for a full inning, every game.

/anything less is sissyball
 
2013-05-28 04:28:08 PM

meddleRPI: Add to the list:

9.) replay

10.) shiatty umpiring

and you have the 10 reasons I stopped watching baseball.


You forgot groin-tugging.
 
2013-05-28 04:28:34 PM

WhackingDay: Luckily, it's all being discussed on ESPN behind their paywall. Has anyone ever looked at the ESPN MLB page? Every damn thing is on Insider now.


Your first problem is turning to BSPN for anything besides Yankees/Red Sox/Tebow/LeBron/SEC cock worship.
 
2013-05-28 04:33:38 PM
i42.tinypic.com 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR
 
2013-05-28 04:38:02 PM
WAR sucks
DH sucks
Territorial Rights sucks
The GMs can use statistics to their heart's content to make personnel decisions.  I just wanna watch a game.
MVP is a popularity contest.  Normalized against everyone else playing the same position, I've got Joe Mauer as MVP.
Steroids are awesome.  I fully support using over paid athletes as lab rats to help me figure out what drugs are both safe and effective.  We need more PEDs in baseball, not fewer.  If that means we need to move the fences back 20', that's ok.
A great relief pitcher is a great relief pitcher whether you want to annoint him as a "closer" or if he's just the setup man.
 
2013-05-28 04:40:38 PM

meanmutton: december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.

As long as position players don't have to pitch, pitchers shouldn't have to hit.


That doesn't even make sense. A pitcher occupies a spot on the field, same as the other 8 players. So he's excepted based on pitching? What about catchers, who are also very involved on every single pitch?
 
2013-05-28 04:43:15 PM

december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.


Meh. If I wanted to watch fat guys in their forties strike out I'd go to Hooters.
 
2013-05-28 04:46:33 PM

IAmRight: meanmutton: As long as position players don't have to pitch, pitchers shouldn't have to hit.

If we want everyone to be equal, then hey, there are nine innings and there are nine positions and nine spots in the lineup. Everyone plays every position for a full inning, every game.

/anything less is sissyball


It would be great fun seeing Prince Fielder as a catcher.
 
2013-05-28 04:51:27 PM

december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.




Except that retribution thing isn't actually a thing anymore.
 
2013-05-28 04:51:34 PM
I love all the "baseball purists" who denounce the DH because reasons.  It used to be that pitchers threw underhand, and catchers didn't wear shinguards, and minorities were not allowed to play, and seeing multiple relievers in the same game was extremely rare.


Things evolve.  Deal with it.
 
2013-05-28 04:54:39 PM

Wadded Beef: december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.

Meh. If I wanted to watch fat guys in their forties strike out I'd go to Hooters.


If I wanted to see guys not know how to use their stick and look pitiful while doing so i'd take my binocs to that suburban development on a Friday.
 
2013-05-28 04:56:15 PM
I just like the late game chess match in a close game with runners on and the pitchers spot coming up. It's basically the only time in baseball that managers have any real pressure on what move to make
 
2013-05-28 04:59:24 PM

gwowen: december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.

Except that retribution thing isn't actually a thing anymore.


Let's see what happens when Carlos Quentin comes up to bat the next time the Padres play the Dodgers.

/I know, I know, isolated incident
//he's still gonna get plugged
 
2013-05-28 05:00:01 PM
I wasn't aware the A's stadium situation was an ongoing conversation outside of Oakland. It's not even an ongoing discussion among the panel that Selig appointed to solve the issue.
 
2013-05-28 05:00:47 PM

rtaylor92: I just like the late game chess match in a close game with runners on and the pitchers spot coming up. It's basically the only time in baseball that managers have any real pressure on what move to make


There's no chess match.

Trailing, close game: "Well, sh*t, if we don't score before that pitcher spot, looks like I'm bringing in a PH and I'd better get a reliever ready."
Ahead, close game: "Do I have my best reliever in? I do? Well, f*ck it, let him hit then. Kinda weird of me to have brought in my closer early since no one does that."
Tied, close game: "Well sh*t, if we don't score before that pitcher spot, looks like I'm bringing in a PH and I'd better get a reliever ready and my closer ready for just in case purposes."
 
2013-05-28 05:01:36 PM

The Onion is prophetic: Let's see what happens when Carlos Quentin comes up to bat the next time the Padres play the Dodgers.


He'll get hit like he does all the time because he crowds the shiat out of the plate?
 
2013-05-28 05:01:42 PM
2013 WAR:

Miguel Cabrera: 2.8
Mike Trout: 1.9


that is all.
 
2013-05-28 05:02:03 PM

The Onion is prophetic: Let's see what happens when Carlos Quentin comes up to bat the next time the Padres play the Dodgers.


See, that's the other reason the "retribution" crap is stupid. If the batter wants retribution so badly, he's free to go run out to the mound and break the pitcher's collarbone. That's enough of a deterrent for most pitchers.
 
2013-05-28 05:02:31 PM
Votto is at 3.2 and Manny Machado is at 3.1.
 
2013-05-28 05:03:11 PM

SlothB77: 2013 WAR:

Miguel Cabrera: 2.8
Mike Trout: 1.9


that is all.


Sure, but Cabrera's just having a hot early part of the season before the pitchers "figure him out". What you did in May doesn't matter at all; it's what you do in the clutch in the stretch run that counts.
 
2013-05-28 05:04:46 PM

Why Would I Read the Article: I love all the "baseball purists" who denounce the DH because reasons.  It used to be that pitchers threw underhand, and catchers didn't wear shinguards, and minorities were not allowed to play, and seeing multiple relievers in the same game was extremely rare.


Things evolve.  Deal with it.


Not all change is good.  Deal with it.
 
2013-05-28 05:04:46 PM

IAmRight: Sure, but Cabrera's just having a hot early part of the season before the pitchers "figure him out". What you did in May doesn't matter at all; it's what you do in the clutch in the stretch run that counts.


Ha!

Buchholz 3.4.
Kershaw 3.3.
 
2013-05-28 05:04:53 PM
I find it ironic that a Cubs fan is complaining about hearing about the oakland A's stadium dillema. Local news covered every stupid little detail about the stupid Cubs and the stupid rooftop parasites and threatening to move to Schaumburg or Rosemont or whatever.
 
2013-05-28 05:04:56 PM

IAmRight: SlothB77: 2013 WAR:

Miguel Cabrera: 2.8
Mike Trout: 1.9


that is all.

Sure, but Cabrera's just having a hot early part of the season before the pitchers "figure him out". What you did in May doesn't matter at all; it's what you do in the clutch in the stretch run that counts.


Wasn't that part of the argument in Cabrera's favor last year?
 
2013-05-28 05:05:04 PM

december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.


Pedro Guerrero would like a word...and David Cone would understand.
 
2013-05-28 05:06:18 PM

wxboy: IAmRight: SlothB77: 2013 WAR:

Miguel Cabrera: 2.8
Mike Trout: 1.9


that is all.

Sure, but Cabrera's just having a hot early part of the season before the pitchers "figure him out". What you did in May doesn't matter at all; it's what you do in the clutch in the stretch run that counts.

Wasn't that part of the argument in Cabrera's favor last year?


that's the joke.
 
2013-05-28 05:07:45 PM

SlothB77: 2013 WAR:

Miguel Cabrera: 2.8
Mike Trout: 1.9


that is all.


R.A. Dickey currently has a 4.85 ERA and K/BB ratio of less than 2. Therefore his 2012 Cy Young award is taken away and Sarah Palin is automatically commissioner.
 
2013-05-28 05:09:12 PM

wxboy: Wasn't that part of the argument in Cabrera's favor last year?


I felt like the "figure him out" part made it pretty clear that's what the joke was. Work with me, here, people.
 
2013-05-28 05:14:34 PM
One things fr sure. Stat geeks have invaded and are ultimately ruining football with fantasy leagues. Stay away from hockey please.
 
2013-05-28 05:14:56 PM

IAmRight: wxboy: Wasn't that part of the argument in Cabrera's favor last year?

I felt like the "figure him out" part made it pretty clear that's what the joke was. Work with me, here, people.


Should've included "intangibles." Also how much more valuable he is cause he moved to the other bag.

/WOW
 
2013-05-28 05:16:44 PM
buckeyebrain: Your first problem is turning to BSPN for anything besides Yankees/Red Sox/Tebow/LeBron/SEC cock worship

Add Notre Dame football and your list would be complete.

I might be one of the few baseball fans that doesn't really pay attention to stats. I had friends growing up (in the pre-sabremetrics days) who could talk for hours about that stuff and it bored me stiff.
 
2013-05-28 05:17:17 PM

Is that a StrongBad shout-out in the first paragraph???

Everybody to the limit!
Everybody to the limit!
 
2013-05-28 05:21:38 PM

Why Would I Read the Article: I love all the "baseball purists" who denounce the DH because reasons.  It used to be that pitchers threw underhand, and catchers didn't wear shinguards, and minorities were not allowed to play, and seeing multiple relievers in the same game was extremely rare.


Things evolve.  Deal with it.


I'm with you... but above all else, I really wish they'd just normalize the rule across all of baseball.  DH or no DH, I hate that its different between the leagues.
 
2013-05-28 05:22:13 PM

december: the DH debate really boils down to what you hate more

1. watching pitchers try to hit

2. watching pitchers plunk batters without any fear of retribution

when you think about it that way, it's a lot tougher to decide.


What if we hate over the hill fat asses who only have one job because they are too old to stand up for two hours in the field? The DH sucks and leads to awful AL contracts like Ryan Howards. Eliminating the DH is one of the easier ways to increase parity in baseball. Not every team can afford a 10 mil a year contract for what is essentially a pinch hitter.
 
2013-05-28 05:23:12 PM

MyRandomName: The DH sucks and leads to awful AL contracts like Ryan Howards.


And to think, I thought this thread would be boring.
 
2013-05-28 05:23:41 PM

MyRandomName: The DH sucks and leads to awful AL contracts like Ryan Howards


Can we just all agree to laugh at the Phillies?
 
2013-05-28 05:24:12 PM

buckeyebrain: WhackingDay: Luckily, it's all being discussed on ESPN behind their paywall. Has anyone ever looked at the ESPN MLB page? Every damn thing is on Insider now.

Your first problem is turning to BSPN for anything besides Yankees/Red Sox/Tebow/LeBron/SEC cock worship.


SEC football bias has now bled into college baseball selections.. 9 teams including a team at .500. Pac 12 is better yet 4 selections.
 
2013-05-28 05:25:40 PM

DeWayne Mann: MyRandomName: The DH sucks and leads to awful AL contracts like Ryan Howards.

And to think, I thought this thread would be boring.


Wow. I did do that. Choose your least favorite AL team. No idea why I chose his awful contract out of all available. Although he will become a dh at some point.
 
2013-05-28 05:25:43 PM

IAmRight: rtaylor92: I just like the late game chess match in a close game with runners on and the pitchers spot coming up. It's basically the only time in baseball that managers have any real pressure on what move to make

There's no chess match.

Trailing, close game: "Well, sh*t, if we don't score before that pitcher spot, looks like I'm bringing in a PH and I'd better get a reliever ready."
Ahead, close game: "Do I have my best reliever in? I do? Well, f*ck it, let him hit then. Kinda weird of me to have brought in my closer early since no one does that."
Tied, close game: "Well sh*t, if we don't score before that pitcher spot, looks like I'm bringing in a PH and I'd better get a reliever ready and my closer ready for just in case purposes."


ok
 
2013-05-28 05:26:52 PM

Killer Cars: The inclusion of the whole A's/Giants territorial kerfuffle seems odd. At least the other seven noted topics are just general "baseball things" people on the internet yell about to each other on a daily basis regardless of geography.


OTOH, it's been a subject of conversation longer than WAR was known to anybody but a couple of rotisserie geeks, and almost as long as the DH.
 
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