If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(LA Times)   Government investigates reports that engines in Ford F-150 pickups lose power when accelerating. Now, if they just put those engines into Toyotas, everyone's problem is solved   (latimes.com) divider line 107
    More: Followup, Ford F-150, pickup trucks, investigative report, Ford Motor Company, investigation, engineers  
•       •       •

4751 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 May 2013 at 10:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



107 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-05-28 09:35:39 AM  
It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

I highly doubt that it is something that is mechanically defective.
 
2013-05-28 10:15:53 AM  

fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.


My vote is on the software.  I've often wonder how they QA those functions.  I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?
 
2013-05-28 10:22:33 AM  

UberDave: fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

My vote is on the software.  I've often wonder how they QA those functions.  I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?



Absolutely.

That's why car companies test in Greenland, the Mojave desert etc. Extreme weather testing is common in the industry.
 
2013-05-28 10:24:25 AM  
DUH its turbo lag.
 
2013-05-28 10:24:50 AM  
My understanding is it is moisture in the intercooler that gets sucked into the engine, triggers a misfire and the system goes into limp home mode.
 
2013-05-28 10:25:25 AM  
I don't get the reference subby. Please elaborate.
 
2013-05-28 10:26:22 AM  
This is what happens when Ford tries to copy Chevy.
 
2013-05-28 10:28:51 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: This is what happens when Ford tries to copy Chevy.


Wut?
 
2013-05-28 10:29:09 AM  

elgrancerdo: I don't get the reference subby. Please elaborate.


I believe subby is referring to the controversy from a few years ago, when some Toyota drivers experienced acceleration when they're trying to brake.  There were a few people who died in accidents, but supposedly Toyota's people were never able to reproduce the accident in testing.  They still recalled a lot of cars though.
 
2013-05-28 10:32:15 AM  
Fix It Again, Tony!
 
2013-05-28 10:33:45 AM  

Arkanaut: elgrancerdo: I don't get the reference subby. Please elaborate.

I believe subby is referring to the controversy from a few years ago, when some Toyota drivers experienced acceleration when they're trying to brake.  There were a few people who died in accidents, but supposedly Toyota's people were never able to reproduce the accident in testing.  They still recalled a lot of cars though.


I knew someone who had it happen to him twice. They replaced his vehicle with a brand new one.
 
2013-05-28 10:33:55 AM  

Surly U. Jest: My understanding is it is moisture in the intercooler that gets sucked into the engine, triggers a misfire and the system goes into limp home mode.


I would hope not, there really should not be any moisture inside the intercooler, or the intake system in general. If by chance there was, it should be atomized by the time it gets to the engine. If there is significant moisture making it to the engine theres definitely a flaw in somethings design that needs to be found and corrected.
 
2013-05-28 10:34:40 AM  
F150s have none of that shiat.

They have a torque limiter and RPM delta limiter... SOP for Ford.
 
2013-05-28 10:35:40 AM  

Arkanaut: elgrancerdo: I don't get the reference subby. Please elaborate.

I believe subby is referring to the controversy from a few years ago, when some Toyota drivers experienced acceleration when they're trying to brake.  There were a few people who died in accidents, but supposedly Toyota's people were never able to reproduce the accident in testing.  They still recalled a lot of cars though.


From what I understood, it was mostly people who were in line for the Darwin awards. The petals may or may not have stuck, but people didn't understand they could put their cars in neutral and just freaked out in general.
 
2013-05-28 10:36:26 AM  
Unions hate Toyota
Unions hate Ford

... this ain't rocket surgery folks ...

(referencing union mechanics who did not put oil seals in L-1011 Eastern Airlines 855 as part of 'teaching management a lesson' during union hostilities so over the top it killed the airline)
 
2013-05-28 10:46:17 AM  

fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

I highly doubt that it is something that is mechanically defective.


All the more reason to drive Chevys from the past.  There is none of that nonsense going on.
 
2013-05-28 10:48:03 AM  

fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

I highly doubt that it is something that is mechanically defective.


They're either having a mechanical fault or a sensor fault that is somehow triggering limp mode. The software should not be doing that on its own.  Unless someone at Ford is a giant farking moron and fails at having their software interpret sensor codes (that is their software triggers limp mode despite being given an everything is ok code).

UberDave: fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

My vote is on the software.  I've often wonder how they QA those functions.  I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?


I currently have a test mule with three full sized Dell towers in my trunk.  The initial software work is done with those.  The car's computer is there, but overridden by my little trunk based computer cluster which simulates various things on the car.  Right now we're working on new suspension where a forward looking camera alerts the suspension to bumps before you hit them, so the computers are controlling the cameras, the ultrasonic forward sensor, and the MagRide suspension.  We'll do the following: Get the software working.  Optimize the code.  Ensure it is still working.  Go order custom made hardware to run the software.  Test that in various environments.  Make changes, order new hardware (we try to avoid that), etc.

As it stands right now though we have about two dozen mules, all with different hardware (and thus subtle changes to the software) based on what various suppliers can provide.  We'll pick a final configuration around Sept based on cost and performance of the various mixtures of hardware.

The ordering the custom hardware is actually insanely expensive, so we're looking at a total of 8 months of just taking road trips around the US and Canada with the computers running the system, logging results, etc.  We want the code fully stable and optimized before ordering hardware.  Code optimization is also a huge deal, if you need say 10 cents less RAM per board, that adds up when you buy your boards by the millions.

Over the summer the company will cover my vacation in the form of a road trip to Big Bend just to log more data for testing and analysis.

/the Big Bend park rangers are cool because when they see you screaming around in an Escalade with manufacturer plates they just point you rougher roads and ride along with you
//the pricks at Glacier National kicked us out
 
2013-05-28 10:55:24 AM  
This would be a bigger deal if I had ever seen an F150 in any color other than white and any condition other than pristine.

They're heavy work trucks for people who don't actually do any heavy work.
 
2013-05-28 11:00:45 AM  

ha-ha-guy: fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

I highly doubt that it is something that is mechanically defective.

They're either having a mechanical fault or a sensor fault that is somehow triggering limp mode. The software should not be doing that on its own.  Unless someone at Ford is a giant farking moron and fails at having their software interpret sensor codes (that is their software triggers limp mode despite being given an everything is ok code).

UberDave: fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

My vote is on the software.  I've often wonder how they QA those functions.  I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?

I currently have a test mule with three full sized Dell towers in my trunk.  The initial software work is done with those.  The car's computer is there, but overridden by my little trunk based computer cluster which simulates various things on the car.  Right now we're working on new suspension where a forward looking camera alerts the suspension to bumps before you hit them, so the computers are controlling the cameras, the ultrasonic forward sensor, and the MagRide suspension.  We'll do the following: Get the software working.  Optimize the code.  Ensure it is still working.  Go order custom made hardware to run the software.  Test that in various environments.  Make changes, order new hardware (we try to avoid that), etc.

As it stands right now though we have about two dozen mules, all with different hardware (and thus subtle changes to the software) based on what various suppliers can provide.  We'll pick a final configuration around Sept based on cost and performance of the various mixtures of h ...


What do I have to do to get that job?
 
2013-05-28 11:01:23 AM  
Last time I bothered to read about it the Government still held GM stock , Gm paid back their loan but didn't buy back the stock.

/Last I looked.
 
2013-05-28 11:02:35 AM  

Evil Mackerel: Last time I bothered to read about it the Government still held GM stock , Gm paid back their loan but didn't buy back the stock.

/Last I looked.


IIRC, the Treasury is starting the process to sell off their stake in GM.
 
2013-05-28 11:12:23 AM  

fatalvenom: UberDave: fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

My vote is on the software.  I've often wonder how they QA those functions.  I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?


Absolutely.

That's why car companies test in Greenland, the Mojave desert etc. Extreme weather testing is common in the industry.



I sometimes wonder.  I live an area where the heat combined with the humidity is horribly magnificent.  I think half the car problems I've had in the last 20 years were related to heat+humidity issues.  Admittedly, the largest engine related problems were probably not caused by such.  But A/Cs, electrical systems, freaking headliners...
 
2013-05-28 11:21:57 AM  
ha-ha-guy:
I currently have a test mule with three full sized Dell towers in my trunk.  The initial software work is done with those.  The car's computer is there, but overridden by my little trunk based computer cluster which simulates various things on the car.  Right now we're working on new suspension where a forward looking camera alerts the suspension to bumps before you hit them, so the computers are controlling the cameras, the ultrasonic forward sensor, and the MagRide suspension.  We'll do the following: Get the software working.  Optimize the code.  Ensure it is still working.  Go order custom made hardware to run the software.  Test that in various environments.  Make changes, order new hardware (we try to avoid that), etc.

As it stands right now though we have about two dozen mules, all with different hardware (and thus subtle changes to the software) based on what various suppliers can provide.  We'll pick a final configuration around Sept based on cost and performance of the various mixtures of h
ardware.

The ordering the custom hardware is actually insanely expensive, so we're looking at a total of 8 months of just taking road trips around the US and Canada with the computers running the system, logging results, etc.  We want the code fully stable and optimized before ordering hardware.  Code optimization is also a huge deal, if you need say 10 cents less RAM per board, that adds up when you buy your boards by the millions.

Over the summer the company will cover my vacation in the form of a road trip to Big Bend just to log more data for testing and analysis.

/the Big Bend park rangers are cool because when they see you screaming around in an Escalade with manufacturer plates they just point you rougher roads and ride along with you
//the pricks at Glacier National kicked us out



That sounds really cool.  I'm sometimes thankful I don't have to deal with control software.

Take it to Padre Island National Seashore in July.  Stay a few days and keep the windows down the whole time.  That will give you more environmental farking than Big Bend would (minus the rough terrain).  Plus, you can go tear-assing all over the place with no problems.  Bring a shovel and come along...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-05-28 11:29:23 AM  
Ecoboost engines lost power

If I went car shopping I would assume anything called "ecoboost" caused a loss of power.
 
2013-05-28 11:29:26 AM  
Well of course you lose power when accelerating....that's where the power is going, towards making you accelerate.
 
2013-05-28 11:30:01 AM  
 ha-ha-guy: fatalvenom:

As it stands right now though we have about two dozen mules, all with different hardware (and thus subtle changes to the software) based on what various suppliers can provide.  We'll pick a final configuration around Sept based on cost and performance of the various mi ...


I saw a guy testing a Mercedes this morning.  It was all covered up with fabric and the markings removed, Michigan manufacturer plates, etc.  One time I saw a Mercedes SUV/crossover, and it had like 5 styrofoam "people" in the passenger seats.  I couldn't figure out why.
 
2013-05-28 11:31:45 AM  
CSB:

I loved my '97 F-150, but the one thing that always made me laugh was in order to get it above 95 MPH I had to turn off the air conditioner. Seriously.
 
2013-05-28 11:34:57 AM  

ZAZ: Ecoboost engines lost power

If I went car shopping I would assume anything called "ecoboost" caused a loss of power.


I've never had any problems with the Focus ST...
 
2013-05-28 11:36:32 AM  

ski9600: ha-ha-guy: fatalvenom:

I saw a guy testing a Mercedes this morning.  It was all covered up with fabric and the markings removed, Michigan manufacturer plates, etc.  One time I saw a Mercedes SUV/crossover, and it had like 5 styrofoam "people" in the passenger seats.  I couldn't figure out why.


Well, if you're going to sell something to be driven around with YYY lb people in each seat, you need to test it like that, to make sure the seats/belts can handle the durability, along with how that weight / distribution effects longevity of mechanical parts.

The fabric / weird paint jobs are so you can't see new styling "ideas", (or the styling isn't done, and they don't want different possibilities to leak) before the big "reveal" at an auto show or other event.
 
2013-05-28 11:39:06 AM  

ski9600: ha-ha-guy: fatalvenom:

As it stands right now though we have about two dozen mules, all with different hardware (and thus subtle changes to the software) based on what various suppliers can provide.  We'll pick a final configuration around Sept based on cost and performance of the various mi ...

I saw a guy testing a Mercedes this morning.  It was all covered up with fabric and the markings removed, Michigan manufacturer plates, etc.  One time I saw a Mercedes SUV/crossover, and it had like 5 styrofoam "people" in the passenger seats.  I couldn't figure out why.


Real world crash testing, if he goes to ramming speed, take evasive action.   The real answer is actually those dummies like have sensors jammed in them to monitor ride quality, cabin light quality, road noise, or even the temperature (or all of the above) and they're just driving around to log data on that.  It's just person shaped so you can put the audio sensor where the ear is, etc.
 
WGJ
2013-05-28 11:45:05 AM  
Why would the government need to get involved in this?
 
2013-05-28 11:47:21 AM  
It's just the gas, they started watering it down with liquified diamonds and freshly squeezed gold juice a few months ago. When the adulterated gas gets sucked up the gashole of the gasometric quantifier at a certain RPM/MPH ratio (known only to Detroit brainiacs like me) it liquifies further by the square root of the bell curve of combustion and a drop off in power is observed.

/scientist.
 
2013-05-28 11:53:45 AM  

Lunakki: What do I have to do to get that job?


Masters in Computer Engineers or Electrical Engineering and a rich wife (I got me an oral surgeon) so you don't have to seek greener pastures after years of not getting a raise, then not getting COLA, and then finally a pay cut.  My two cents would be to look at a supplier like DENSO, Borg-Warner or someone of that nature.  If you want to go full auto manufacturer now, go Hyundai.  GM and Chrysler have become very contractor heavy environments versus career friendly places.  Ford is still more career friendly according to my friends there, but not as great as it once was.

/got a raise finally
//the fringe benefits are awesome though, as are the discounts on cars, while I didn't get a raise I managed to get the executive level discount for life as a perk for not moving to China and working for BYD

akula: Evil Mackerel: Last time I bothered to read about it the Government still held GM stock , Gm paid back their loan but didn't buy back the stock.

/Last I looked.

IIRC, the Treasury is starting the process to sell off their stake in GM.


Thanks for the TF.  They sold off some, but they're afraid if they sell it off en masse the stock price will drop and Treasury will take a bath or so they say.  My personal belief is that Treasury is going hold the stock for at least one more CEO change.  Our board generally sucks ass and wouldn't recognize a lug nut if you shoved it up their ass, the success we're having it mainly due to the car designs that Henderson, Lutz, and Wagoner started (all of whom were shoved out the door by Treasury).  The new guys reduced the number of design teams and I think people are starting to realize that while a lot of our new products win awards now, in five more years we won't be talking about all the awesome designs Whitiacre or Akerson greenlighted.

Hopefully we actually get a guy who actually understands manufacturing, as opposed to some washed up telcom CEO who tells us to run a plant at full speed for all three shifts, because I mean why would you ever need to take time to clean the paint booths and shiat like that?

/luckily the Buicks impacted by that dumbass decision decided to paint problems before the dealers could sell them, so no recall was needed, some dealers just got to run a lot of Buicks through their bodyshops for full repaints
 
2013-05-28 12:05:44 PM  
Nothing new. Fords have always lost power under acceleration.
 
2013-05-28 12:09:31 PM  
This problem is actually caused by radio interference picked up by the mylar in "Calvin-Peein'-On-X" stickers.  Drivers are advised to place such stickers in the center of the rear cab window, rather than off to one side, so that they're aligned with the symmetrical ground plane created by the truck nutz.
 
2013-05-28 12:15:25 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Thanks for the TF.


You're welcome. Go say hi over at TFD.
 
2013-05-28 12:20:33 PM  

fatalvenom: ZAZ: Ecoboost engines lost power

If I went car shopping I would assume anything called "ecoboost" caused a loss of power.

I've never had any problems with the Focus ST...


Can't decide on how to buy mine.  I'm a dealership employee, so I get d-plan pricing, but frankly for a brand new ST2 on d-plan I can get an ST3 with under 10k miles.


Fantastically fun little cars.
 
2013-05-28 12:26:41 PM  
Sounds about normal for a Ford. I had an 2000 V6 Ranger that had the interesting habit of nearly shutting down at speeds over 75mph. It made for interesting drives to work on the GSP.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-05-28 12:31:49 PM  
Why would the government need to get involved in this?

Loss of power may be considered a safety defect, subject to mandatory reporting to the federal DOT.
 
2013-05-28 12:32:31 PM  
P.O.N.T.I.A.C.
 
2013-05-28 12:33:38 PM  
Air resistance from the Truck Nutz?
 
2013-05-28 12:42:21 PM  

fatalvenom: It sounds like there is something in the software that is causing boost to drop-off or a fuel limiting/retarded timing situation.

I highly doubt that it is something that is mechanically defective.


Thats what happens when you use Windows Me..
 
2013-05-28 12:42:39 PM  
they used cheap imported muffler bearings
 
2013-05-28 12:50:01 PM  
I work for a Ford dealer, and it IS a problem with moisture condensing in the innercooler.
 
2013-05-28 12:54:58 PM  
the 19 and 66 f150  390 engine and 4 speed transmission dual fuel tanks, still the best truck ever. You can fix anything on that truck with standard tools duct tape and bailing wire.
 
2013-05-28 01:05:21 PM  

ZAZ: Ecoboost engines lost power

If I went car shopping I would assume anything called "ecoboost" caused a loss of power.


You should examine your assumptions. It's intended as a more economical version of the largest engine - 420 pound-feet of torque available starting at 2500 RPMs, with an insanely-flat torque curve.
 
2013-05-28 01:05:58 PM  

UberDave: My vote is on the software. I've often wonder how they QA those functions. I'm sure they set up a software-based simulator and even a test stand with a real vehicle but do they actually pack a mobile test set in a truck and run it around outside in different conditions?


Having lived in AZ for the past 5 years, I can attest to the fact that lots of manufacturers test a lot of their vehicles out here. If you've ever been caught in traffic here in mid-July you know that is probably the most horrific conditions your vehicle can be in.

I've personally seen several disguised vehicles in testing out here. I got video of the new Nissan 370z driving around here before it was announced.

I lived for a couple years just a few miles from the old GM proving grounds outside of Gilbert. 20 years ago there weren't any houses nearby and so they could test new cars without anyone seeing them before they were announced. Now that is all built up with homes so they closed it down and moved it to a military area down by Yuma.
 
2013-05-28 01:09:19 PM  

logieal: moved it to a military area down by Yuma.


Found it.
 
2013-05-28 01:14:23 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: the 19 and 66 f150  390 engine and 4 speed transmission dual fuel tanks, still the best truck ever. You can fix anything on that truck with standard tools duct tape and bailing wire.


My dad's 1977 with a 302 and a 3 on the tree is still running like a champ and has like 592,000 miles on it. The closest to internal work its had was the timing chain replaced. It starts the first time every time and still makes factory spec compression on all 8 cylinders. Its the only truck with that sort of age and miles Id trust to drive any distance without question.

That thing will still be running when Dr Zaius sees the Human artifacts in the cave.
 
2013-05-28 01:15:41 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Lunakki: What do I have to do to get that job?

Masters in Computer Engineers or Electrical Engineering and a rich wife (I got me an oral surgeon)


Aw yeah.....

What?  That just sounds so naughty....

/Fords are the only US cars I might consider buying; never GM ever again even at gunpoint.
 
Displayed 50 of 107 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report