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(Think Progress)   Good: Ohio school district's new curriculum mandates that for controversial issues, "all sides" of the issue are to be presented. Bad: School district considers evolution and climate change to be "controversial issues". Fark: And Agenda 21   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 316
    More: Asinine, Ohio, individual mandate, Ohio school district, drug liberalization, establishment clause, teaching of creationism, curriculum, climate change  
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3510 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 May 2013 at 4:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 01:51:51 PM
Did God create the idiot as practice for the school board, or are they merely a pack of apes? Teach the controversy!
 
2013-05-27 02:45:03 PM
Does this include flat-Earth 'theories?' I mean, if you're going do this, you may as well go full retard.
 
2013-05-27 02:50:25 PM
I can see them taking it in the evolution debate. I am not saying we should preach creationism, I think that the children should learn and debate the science v religion aspect of civilization and why it is an important issue for many.
 
2013-05-27 03:38:03 PM
Creating a new generation of mouth breathing conspiracy theorist.
 
2013-05-27 03:41:09 PM
School boards have very, very little to do.
 
2013-05-27 03:42:14 PM

cman: I can see them taking it in the evolution debate. I am not saying we should preach creationism, I think that the children should learn and debate the science v religion aspect of civilization and why it is an important issue for many.


in a politics, sociology or history class.
 
2013-05-27 03:43:09 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-27 03:43:34 PM

Tigger: cman: I can see them taking it in the evolution debate. I am not saying we should preach creationism, I think that the children should learn and debate the science v religion aspect of civilization and why it is an important issue for many.

in a politics, sociology or history class.




Indeed you are correct. I shouldn't be taught as science but as sociology.
 
2013-05-27 03:45:47 PM
I think it's time to stop deriding the South only for this type of crap.
 
2013-05-27 03:46:41 PM

Tigger: cman: I can see them taking it in the evolution debate. I am not saying we should preach creationism, I think that the children should learn and debate the science v religion aspect of civilization and why it is an important issue for many.

in a politics, sociology or history class.


That would require taking a critical stance on it, and that's not what creationists want.
 
2013-05-27 03:47:40 PM
Are they going to teach astrology in addition to astronomy? And alchemy in addition to chemistry? Communism in econ?
 
2013-05-27 03:49:11 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-27 03:49:32 PM
*scans headline*

*rescans headline in disbelief*


the-evan.com
 
2013-05-27 03:49:43 PM

coco ebert: I think it's time to stop deriding the South only for this type of crap.


Indeed, sadly this sort of idiocy is everywhere.  The creationists don't have to be as secretive in the south, perhaps, so we hear about it more.
Nevertheless, this kind of abuse of authority by self-appointed moral guardians exists in all states and all regions.
 
2013-05-27 03:55:56 PM
Springboard is in between Dayton and Cincinnati, i.e. the reddest part of Ohio. I'm not surprised by this in the least.
 
2013-05-27 03:58:20 PM

Aarontology: Are they going to teach astrology in addition to astronomy? And alchemy in addition to chemistry? Communism in econ?


Well, reading Marx in econ wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He understood 19th century industrial capitalism quite well, even if you don't agree with his normative stances. Not just that, but he read and processed Smith and Ricardo and other political economists quite well too.
 
2013-05-27 04:00:09 PM
I've wanted the unicorn shirt for a long time, but I don't think I can get away with wearing it around these red-state parts. I don't even get all of those on that page. Yay?
 
2013-05-27 04:01:58 PM

Aarontology: Are they going to teach astrology in addition to astronomy? And alchemy in addition to chemistry? Communism in econ?


Climate Change and Creationism/Evolution fight are controversial issues because people cannot divorce party politics from science. People base how they see science on what they want to see, not what is real. Alchemy isnt a partisan issue, nor is astrology. Communism however should be taught in Econ because of the effects of a centralized economy can be very devastating if not done properly. Critical thinking skills indeed
 
2013-05-27 04:02:36 PM

swaniefrmreddeer: [i.imgur.com image 771x561]


That's friggin' scary if that happened in a public school in NJ. I'm not crazy about living here, but generally you don't hear that type of whargarrbl here.
 
2013-05-27 04:04:14 PM

cman: Aarontology: Are they going to teach astrology in addition to astronomy? And alchemy in addition to chemistry? Communism in econ?

Climate Change and Creationism/Evolution fight are controversial issues because people cannot divorce party politics from science. People base how they see science on what they want to see, not what is real. Alchemy isnt a partisan issue, nor is astrology. Communism however should be taught in Econ because of the effects of a centralized economy can be very devastating if not done properly (the whole Guns v Butter problem).


Fixt

Elaborated and removed last sentence because it was useless.
 
2013-05-27 04:06:36 PM
FTFA: Controversial issues...religion when not used in a historical or factual context

Any public school discussion of religion must already occur in a historical/cultural/factual context. There is no place for it otherwise.
 
2013-05-27 04:10:49 PM

Aarontology: Are they going to teach astrology in addition to astronomy? And alchemy in addition to chemistry?


i.imgur.com

I wish they would. Both of these topics are actually quite important in the history of science, as well as the history of religion. As long as they taught as cultural facts with the historical impact assessed accordingly, there is ample room for them. Its not the topic that is off limits, its that the framework has to be appropriate.
 
2013-05-27 04:12:16 PM
What about the crazies teaching rasslin in PE?
IT'S STILL REAL TO THEM!
 
2013-05-27 04:14:07 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-27 04:15:47 PM
People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.
 
2013-05-27 04:17:51 PM

TerminalEchoes: both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.


Only because one side refuses to listen to facts and reason.
 
2013-05-27 04:18:17 PM
We need to bring back segregation. Except instead of black people, we should segregate right-wingers and their stupid children. They can send their kids to underfunded schools that teach belief in magic and superstition.
 
2013-05-27 04:20:05 PM

coco ebert: I think it's time to stop deriding the South only for this type of crap.


...we northern Ohioans know that Cincy/Dayton et al is the South. We just claim it 'cuz it's north of the Ohio.
 
2013-05-27 04:20:55 PM

TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.


Only for varying definitions of the scientific farking method.
 
2013-05-27 04:22:30 PM
Sure, it can teach those things.

BUT NOT IN SCIENCE CLASS.
 
2013-05-27 04:22:56 PM

coco ebert: I think it's time to stop deriding the South only for this type of crap.


Some parts of Ohio think they live in the south. I'm from New England, and I've been called a "yankee" by Ohioans. Ohioans that speak with a twang, and to whom I've had to explain, why their hockey team is called The Bluejackets.

Morons.
 
2013-05-27 04:23:14 PM

MisterEZ: We need to bring back segregation. Except instead of black people, we should segregate right-wingers and their stupid children. They can send their kids to underfunded schools that teach belief in magic and superstition.


Of course, the shame of it is that the most well-funded schools are the ones that teach that crap to their kids.
 
2013-05-27 04:23:28 PM
If you can teach the controversy in public schools, then we get to teach the controversy in your tax-free churches.
 
2013-05-27 04:23:47 PM
The sad thing is, there are really cool scientific controversies out there. My current favorite is simulation theory vs theory theory in neuroscience and cognitive science. The problem is that even at the college level, a real scientific controveray requires a lot of knowledge in order to comprehend, much less have an informed opinion about. High school and below just aren't venues that allow for any half-decent discussion on a real scientific controversy, much less these politico-religious, anti-science controversies.
 
2013-05-27 04:24:28 PM

Bloody William: TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.

Only for varying definitions of the scientific farking method.


Factually correct does not always mean you win an argument. Winning an argument isn't about who is right or wrong, it's about who argues better
 
2013-05-27 04:24:41 PM

swaniefrmreddeer: [i.imgur.com image 843x403]


I was with him until the part about the goat herders. I get his general point about the historical roots of religion, but one might be surprised at how much a goat herder might know, and his level of scientific knowledge, even back in the bronze age.

/cultural anthropologist
 
2013-05-27 04:26:38 PM

IlGreven: Of course, the shame of it is that the most well-funded schools are the ones that teach that crap to their kids.


Not if we segregate the right-wings' kids to their own schools.

Our kids can have math, science, history and a future.

Their kids can have jesus and dead-ends.

Everyone wins.
 
2013-05-27 04:26:51 PM

cman: Bloody William: TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.

Only for varying definitions of the scientific farking method.

Factually correct does not always mean you win an argument. Winning an argument isn't about who is right or wrong, it's about who argues better


Which is why the "controversy" should be kept within the scientific community and schools shouldn't be used as a farking rhetorical battleground for Christian Dominionists.
 
2013-05-27 04:28:46 PM
Religious material goes into the sociology, history, and religious study classes. NOT in the science classes.
 
2013-05-27 04:28:59 PM
If I actually did things, I would make a "Support Agenda 21" website and see how many bites I'd get.
 
2013-05-27 04:29:13 PM

TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.


Imagine an entire state populated by citizens who were taught this in school. Now imagine you're a high-tech employer looking to expand your business and hire highly educated employees.
 
2013-05-27 04:30:58 PM

Bloody William: cman: Bloody William: TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.

Only for varying definitions of the scientific farking method.

Factually correct does not always mean you win an argument. Winning an argument isn't about who is right or wrong, it's about who argues better

Which is why the "controversy" should be kept within the scientific community and schools shouldn't be used as a farking rhetorical battleground for Christian Dominionists.




No one in this thread has advocated for such. Clearly everyone of us in this thread are arguing in favor of the sociological effects debate of religion v science. To not discuss the fight because it may be a bit uncomfortable is historical revisionism as one would be implying that religion has had no effect upon mankind.
 
2013-05-27 04:32:02 PM

Notabunny: TerminalEchoes: People decide what is and what isn't a controversy. Ignorance or not, both topics are indeed controversial and both subjects can be debated until all parties are blue in the face with no clear winner.

Imagine an entire state populated by citizens who were taught this in school. Now imagine you're a high-tech employer looking to expand your business and hire highly educated employees.


Maybe besides importing cheaper labor, that's what is behind Zuckerberg and co.'s recent push for immigration reform. Perhaps billionaires have given up on our school system producing critical thinkers of science.

nah, it's probably the whole cheaper labor thing.
 
2013-05-27 04:32:54 PM
And for the X-mas celebration in the school, we can bring in the Festivus pole and air our grievances.

/Oh but the christians will bring their guns in direct violation of Festivus traditions.
 
2013-05-27 04:33:40 PM

coco ebert: Well, reading Marx in econ wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He understood 19th century industrial capitalism quite well, even if you don't agree with his normative stances. Not just that, but he read and processed Smith and Ricardo and other political economists quite well too.


Yeah, his analysis was pretty good. His conclusions? Not so much. But a comparison of different economic systems (especially ones that are currently being employed by various nations) would be pretty beneficial.

cman: Climate Change and Creationism/Evolution fight are controversial issues because people cannot divorce party politics from science. People base how they see science on what they want to see, not what is real. Alchemy isnt a partisan issue, nor is astrology. Communism however should be taught in Econ because of the effects of a centralized economy can be very devastating if not done properly. Critical thinking skills indeed


And doing this "teaching the controversy" will do nothing to alter that. All it will do is continue the belief among many that their superstitions and pseudo-science have as much merit as anything else, as long as they make a big enough stink about it.
Look at that one GOP senator who basically wanted to create a Politburo for scientific research: that kind of thing is incredibly dangerous both in terms of general scientific advancement, as well as dismissing ideas or possibilities if they don't meet whichever nimrod on the Politburo's personal beliefs and prejudices. To wit: would you want someone like Michelle Bachmann using her insane beliefs in this way?

The USSR is a perfect example of why this is a truly horrific idea when you consider how much damage was done to the Soviet agriculture and economy because of their advocacy of Lemarckianism because that fit in better with communist ideology than evolution by natural selection and Mendellian genetics.

America used to be the world leader and innovator in advancement, and now we're going to be overrun by countries who don't think the most ignorant unscientific assumptions deserve equal merit as actual science.
 
2013-05-27 04:35:41 PM
So how many tax dollars will be wasted because these conservatives don't understand the Constitution or science?
 
2013-05-27 04:35:44 PM

Kome: The sad thing is, there are really cool scientific controversies out there. My current favorite is simulation theory vs theory theory in neuroscience and cognitive science. The problem is that even at the college level, a real scientific controveray requires a lot of knowledge in order to comprehend, much less have an informed opinion about. High school and below just aren't venues that allow for any half-decent discussion on a real scientific controversy, much less these politico-religious, anti-science controversies.


High school is hardly the venue for teaching scientific controversies at any rate. That is not where the great scientific debates should be conducted.

While people might think the best course is to be open-minded and tolerant of all opposing views, the truth is teaching bad scientific theories would not compel kids to think critically any more than teaching bad math would, and in both cases, teaching it incorrectly or teaching depricated and discarded ideas would only serve to confuse them as they would be unable to interact with the real world afterword.

If people would like to learn the history of failed scientific ideas (and there are easily 1000 more failed scientific theories than successful ones), there is History for that. Science, like math, is what works TODAY, in the here and now. Teach only what we know as the best explanation of the available evidence. Nothing more.

You want to teach kids to think, don't teach the controversy, make a mandatory Critical Thinking course.
 
2013-05-27 04:36:06 PM

Aarontology: coco ebert: Well, reading Marx in econ wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. He understood 19th century industrial capitalism quite well, even if you don't agree with his normative stances. Not just that, but he read and processed Smith and Ricardo and other political economists quite well too.

Yeah, his analysis was pretty good. His conclusions? Not so much. But a comparison of different economic systems (especially ones that are currently being employed by various nations) would be pretty beneficial.

cman: Climate Change and Creationism/Evolution fight are controversial issues because people cannot divorce party politics from science. People base how they see science on what they want to see, not what is real. Alchemy isnt a partisan issue, nor is astrology. Communism however should be taught in Econ because of the effects of a centralized economy can be very devastating if not done properly. Critical thinking skills indeed

And doing this "teaching the controversy" will do nothing to alter that. All it will do is continue the belief among many that their superstitions and pseudo-science have as much merit as anything else, as long as they make a big enough stink about it.
Look at that one GOP senator who basically wanted to create a Politburo for scientific research: that kind of thing is incredibly dangerous both in terms of general scientific advancement, as well as dismissing ideas or possibilities if they don't meet whichever nimrod on the Politburo's personal beliefs and prejudices. To wit: would you want someone like Michelle Bachmann using her insane beliefs in this way?

The USSR is a perfect example of why this is a truly horrific idea when you consider how much damage was done to the Soviet agriculture and economy because of their advocacy of Lemarckianism because that fit in better with communist ideology than evolution by natural selection and Mendellian genetics.

America used to be the world leader and innovator in advancement, and now we're going ...


There's a way to fix this. We all know what it is, but no one will actually say it.
 
2013-05-27 04:36:09 PM
They should start by teaching that "theory" is not a hypothesis nor is it a wild guess.
 
2013-05-27 04:37:14 PM
I worked in that town until recently.  That's the most dysfunctional school board I've ever heard of.  I'm not surprised that something like this got passed.

They blew a lot of money on a gold-plated school building when times were good.  Then they got hit hard by the housing bubble and haven't gotten a levy passed in years. They've gone through something like 4 superintendents and 3 treasurers in 6 years.  The old residents don't like the residents of the big housing development that was set up 10-12 years ago (a combination of McMansions and empty-nester condos).  The rural residents don't like the suburban residents.  And on and on it goes.  The teachers have actually given notice that they intend to go out on strike.
 
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