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(Newser)   Some 121 years after the Coal Creek War broke out, Tennessee has officially declared an end to hostilities with coal miners enraged by the use of convict labor to replace free workers. A peace treaty has been signed   (newser.com) divider line 51
    More: Strange, Coal Creek War, coal miners enraged, hostilities, convict labor, National Register of Historic Places, rebellions, coal mining, workers  
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4496 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2013 at 12:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 11:17:23 AM  
So wait

Up till now, any coal worker who killed any non-coal-worker in TN has been an enemy combatant and not a criminal? And their incarceration has been as a POW and they should now be released?
 
2013-05-27 11:28:44 AM  
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.
 
2013-05-27 12:26:52 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.
 
2013-05-27 12:30:57 PM  

unlikely: So wait

Up till now, any coal worker who killed any non-coal-worker in TN has been an enemy combatant and not a criminal? And their incarceration has been as a POW and they should now be released?


Nah. I mean, it could be technically correct, but in practice, that won't happen. Probably.
 
2013-05-27 12:37:12 PM  
So now we just need to keep our government from allowing cheap crap to flow into US borders, and ruining the job market, and causing our businesses to outsource / move to different countries.
 
2013-05-27 12:37:37 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.

I, for one, can't wait to live in a company town. Close to work, there's a store nearby, the company is more profitable because they can buy supplies for me using their superior buying poer (which I get in exchange for coupons they give me for my work), what's not to like!
 
2013-05-27 12:40:15 PM  
And anyone who wants to complain about the police being militarized can look at these labor protests and see the kind of butchery that was carried out by the police, military and private organizations against workers trying to secure decent wages and safe working conditions.

And I'm not saying the violence was one-sided. West Virginians knew a lot about shooting and a lot about dynamite.
 
2013-05-27 12:43:12 PM  
I've always found the willingness to blindly support the purported underdog to be fascinating.
 
2013-05-27 12:45:16 PM  
img1-cdn.newser.com
 
2013-05-27 12:47:07 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: I've always found the willingness to blindly support the purported underdog to be fascinating.


The willingness to blindly support the factual overdog is so commonplace as to need no discussion.
 
2013-05-27 12:47:41 PM  
FTA: "Republican state senator, who donned a green bandana like those worn by the striking miners."

Always supporting the workers.
 
2013-05-27 12:49:55 PM  

MorteDiem: FTA: "Republican state senator, who donned a green bandana like those worn by the striking miners."

Always supporting the workers.


Redneck came from a 1912 coal riot. The union coal miners wore red bandanas around their necks. Supposedly.
 
2013-05-27 12:58:30 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


Also see: Ludlow massacre.
 
2013-05-27 01:03:09 PM  
Gives the crook eye to these shenanigans.

static.tvfanatic.com
 
2013-05-27 01:08:54 PM  
the insurrection, which led to an end of the state's convict-leasing system

Hey liberals, tell me again how violence never works.


DeathByGeekSquad
I've always found the willingness to blindly support the purported underdog to be fascinating.

The weak are, by definition, never the oppressors.
 
2013-05-27 01:11:40 PM  

trotsky: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.


And from another perspective, things don't look so bad today.

It's just like people saying "Wow, political discourse in Congress is really bad these days.  It's almost like the leadup to the Civil War".  And I go: "Has a Senator beat another senator into a coma on the floor of the Senate yet?" and they go "No."  and I go "Ok, I'll be worried when they do."
 
2013-05-27 01:18:18 PM  

buzzcut73: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.

I, for one, can't wait to live in a company town. Close to work, there's a store nearby, the company is more profitable because they can buy supplies for me using their superior buying poer (which I get in exchange for coupons they give me for my work), what's not to like!


Umm about that. Company towns aren't quite as romantic as you might hope. I've lived next to lumber and mining ones on the west coast growing up. Sure the pay can be top dollar, but so is everything else in town. The money becomes its own closed loop of sorts, and your whole livelihood is dependent on the success of the company. If it goes broke, so could you. Major services like hospitals for anything beyond a broken thumb is a two hour drive. If you're in the sticks off the highway or interstates, bad weather can cause road washouts and you're cut off from civilization. Then you have to worry about strikes (where you won't be paid for) if your union doesn't like the management, and so on..

I know that appeals to a lot of folks, and some I've known for years, but you wouldn't want to be that guy that says "fark this" and just uproots a life in NYC or LA and that little lifestyle change doesn't pan out so well.
 
2013-05-27 01:20:45 PM  

MorteDiem: FTA: "Republican state senator, who donned a green bandana like those worn by the striking miners."

Always supporting the workers.


Maybe he's just color blind.
 
2013-05-27 01:21:12 PM  

trotsky: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.


And of course the Libertarians have always supported those captains of industry against the workers and their unions.
 
2013-05-27 01:21:14 PM  
Not the first time Tennesseans have taken up arms when they thought they have been wronged look at The battle of Athens or the State of Scott
 
2013-05-27 01:23:35 PM  

meyerkev: "Has a Senator beat another senator into a coma on the floor of the Senate yet?" and they go "No."  and I go "Ok, I'll be worried start watching C-Span for the entertainment value when they do."


ftfy
 
2013-05-27 01:24:39 PM  
The coal miners will rise again!
 
2013-05-27 01:26:17 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: buzzcut73: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.

I, for one, can't wait to live in a company town. Close to work, there's a store nearby, the company is more profitable because they can buy supplies for me using their superior buying poer (which I get in exchange for coupons they give me for my work), what's not to like!

Umm about that. Company towns aren't quite as romantic as you might hope. I've lived next to lumber and mining ones on the west coast growing up. Sure the pay can be top dollar, but so is everything else in town. The money becomes its own closed loop of sorts, and your whole livelihood is dependent on the success of the company. If it goes broke, so could you. Major services like hospitals for anything beyond a broken thumb is a two hour drive. If you're in the sticks off the highway or interstates, bad weather can cause road washouts and you're cut off from civilization. Then you have to worry about strikes (where you won't be paid for) if your union doesn't like the management, and so on..

I know that appeals to a lot of folks, and some I've known for years, but you wouldn't want to be that guy that says "fark this" and just uproots a life in NYC or LA and that little lifestyle change doesn't pan out so well.


Somebody's sarcasm detector is acting up today.
 
2013-05-27 01:29:36 PM  

buzzcut73: As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.


basementrejects.com
 
2013-05-27 01:29:45 PM  

Therion: meyerkev: "Has a Senator beat another senator into a coma on the floor of the Senate yet?" and they go "No."  and I go "Ok, I'll be worried start watching C-Span for the entertainment value when they do."

ftfy


Do you know how much I would pay to see the slap fight between Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell?
 
2013-05-27 01:34:08 PM  

fanbladesaresharp: buzzcut73: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.

I, for one, can't wait to live in a company town. Close to work, there's a store nearby, the company is more profitable because they can buy supplies for me using their superior buying poer (which I get in exchange for coupons they give me for my work), what's not to like!

Umm about that. Company towns aren't quite as romantic as you might hope. I've lived next to lumber and mining ones on the west coast growing up. Sure the pay can be top dollar, but so is everything else in town. The money becomes its own closed loop of sorts, and your whole livelihood is dependent on the success of the company. If it goes broke, so could you. Major services like hospitals for anything beyond a broken thumb is a two hour drive. If you're in the sticks off the highway or interstates, bad weather can cause road washouts and you're cut off from civilization. Then you have to worry about strikes (where you won't be paid for) if your union doesn't like the management, and so on..

I know that appeals to a lot of folks, and some I've known for years, but you wouldn't want to be that guy that says "fark this" and just uproots a life in NYC or LA and that little lifestyle change doesn't pan out so well.


Mind you, that describes a lot of non-company towns too.  If you're making less than $100K in Silicon Valley, you either have roommates, live in a slum or are blowing half your takehome on rent.

/Or have a hour and a half plus commute from the East Bay, where prices are saner (Emphasis on the er)
//I don't get why we can't spend money on infrastructure around here.
 
2013-05-27 01:34:56 PM  
Was cake and punch served?

Its not valid unless cake and punch is served.
 
2013-05-27 01:38:32 PM  

DarkVader: fanbladesaresharp: buzzcut73: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.

I, for one, can't wait to live in a company town. Close to work, there's a store nearby, the company is more profitable because they can buy supplies for me using their superior buying poer (which I get in exchange for coupons they give me for my work), what's not to like!

Umm about that. Company towns aren't quite as romantic as you might hope. I've lived next to lumber and mining ones on the west coast growing up. Sure the pay can be top dollar, but so is everything else in town. The money becomes its own closed loop of sorts, and your whole livelihood is dependent on the success of the company. If it goes broke, so could you. Major services like hospitals for anything beyond a broken thumb is a two hour drive. If you're in the sticks off the highway or interstates, bad weather can cause road washouts and you're cut off from civilization. Then you have to worry about strikes (where you won't be paid for) if your union doesn't like the management, and so on..

I know that appeals to a lot of folks, and some I've known for years, but you wouldn't want to be that guy that says "fark this" and just uproots a life in NYC or LA and that little lifestyle change doesn't pan out so well.

Somebody's sarcasm detector is acting up today.


Yeah I got one of those solar rechargers for it and it apparently doesn't work for shiat.
 
2013-05-27 01:39:28 PM  

meyerkev: trotsky: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.

And from another perspective, things don't look so bad today.

It's just like people saying "Wow, political discourse in Congress is really bad these days.  It's almost like the leadup to the Civil War".  And I go: "Has a Senator beat another senator into a coma on the floor of the Senate yet?" and they go "No."  and I go "Ok, I'll be worried when they do."


And don't forget the classless sacks of shiat that called themselves "gentlemen" that sent Preston Brooks new canes, while Charles Sumner spent three years recovering (partially, he never fully recovered) from traumatic brain injury.

Honestly, if such an incident took place today, I would expect nothing less from that sliver of our society.
 
2013-05-27 01:55:14 PM  
Wouldn't surprise me if we saw this sort of thing again in another 10-20 years.
 
2013-05-27 02:01:05 PM  
It's a trap!
 
2013-05-27 02:06:32 PM  
Now repeal Right to Work or amend it to include employers unions (i.e. temporary/staffing firm/part-time/other non-FTE) in the no-closed-shop arrangement.   Otherwise the war has simply moved to the courthouse with the same contempt.

buzzcut73: As I said in another thread yesterday, it's great to know that both parties (led by the R's, but the other is just as bought and paid for) are leading us back to those good old days . Hell, some states are already leasing convict labor to private industry again.


That's what you get when you let the South's labor relations policy of "know thy place" be spread to other regions - through pattern legislation organizations comprised of Americans Lacking Everything Conservative.


/Two generations removed from family that lived in a coal mining company town
//Not interested at all in seeing that kind of stuff return
 
2013-05-27 02:07:30 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: I've always found the willingness to blindly support the purported underdog to be fascinating.


And I've never understood why some people think that a*shole tastes good.
 
2013-05-27 02:09:43 PM  
There's only been one conspiracy in the entire history of the human race.  It's basically the 1% who own 99% of everything.  They don't stand 1000' tall and breathe atomic flames; they just know how to manipulate social institutions like organized religion to their advantage.  The one institution that they use most to maintain their power is parenthood; throughout most of human history, the J.P. Morgans of the world could always count on the poor to be an inexhaustible source of cheap labor and cannon fodder no matter how much you exploited and enslaved them.  Show me a guy who'll work in a coal mine for a dollar a day, and I'll show you some guy who has a wife and eight starving kids back home in a tin-roofed shack.

About the biggest news item that's being more-or-less systematically ignored by Big Media is the plummeting birth rates around the world.  Industrialized countries like Germany and South Korea already have fertility rates around 1.4 which is well below the replacement rate of 2.1 kids per woman.  Even third-world places like Iran and Brazil have seen their birth rates fall dramatically over the last decade or so.  America has recently fallen below 2.1 kids per woman and that's with a huge influx of immigrants from pro-natalist countries like Somalia and Mexico.

Personally, I think this is a good thing.  Without going into a long rant, I think this is the one Peasant's Revolt that might actually work...
 
2013-05-27 02:12:59 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


Yep. Like letting a sheriff and his posse shoot numerous unarmed miners in the back, then get away without so much as a slap on the wrist.

But the modern-day  robber barons Job Creators™ would never do anything like that, given the chance!
 
2013-05-27 02:18:04 PM  

LordJiro: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Yep. Like letting a sheriff and his posse shoot numerous unarmed miners in the back, then get away without so much as a slap on the wrist.

But the modern-day  robber barons Job Creators™ would never do anything like that, given the chance!


IIRC, the owners of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company never spent a minute in prison for violating numerous fire codes.  In fact, there was a safety inspection of some sweatshop owned by the Triangle owners several years later, and they were still padlocking fire escapes in direct violation of the law.

Again, not having kids is a very good way to minimize being exploited by the Man, man...
 
2013-05-27 02:59:53 PM  

trotsky: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.


Welcome to 2012, same as 1892. Or, perhaps, things have evolved since then to where unions, once necessary for the health, safety, and well-being of workers, have evolved into corrupt organizations that serve only to suppress productivity and defend the shiftless while tossing out new workers in exchange for nickel-and-dime raises.

It's probably somewhere in the middle, actually. You give me an example of a good union action within the last 5 years and I'll counter with a bad one. You go first.
 
2013-05-27 03:01:09 PM  
noiselesschatter.com
/relieved
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-27 04:29:11 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


They weren't their own workers, they were free.  That's the point.  They will probably try to bring this back soon.

Come to think of it, didn't Alabama try this when they drove all the illegal aliens out and didn't have anyone to pick the crops?
 
2013-05-27 04:29:35 PM  

Psycat: LordJiro: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Yep. Like letting a sheriff and his posse shoot numerous unarmed miners in the back, then get away without so much as a slap on the wrist.

But the modern-day  robber barons Job Creators™ would never do anything like that, given the chance!

IIRC, the owners of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company never spent a minute in prison for violating numerous fire codes.  In fact, there was a safety inspection of some sweatshop owned by the Triangle owners several years later, and they were still padlocking fire escapes in direct violation of the law.

Again, not having kids is a very good way to minimize being exploited by the Man, man...


Hey now, they lost $7,000 in a class action suit from the workers' families. Of course, the owners received.a $64,000 settlement from insurance to help offset the ruthless oppression of their dead workers. You are correct about them being cited a few years later for the exact same thing. As an added bonus, these poor oppressed job creators also had rules that led to employee fines for things such as "bathroom breaks", and "turning off machines to unjam them instead of getting your hand ripped off". Yes, those poor oppressed paragons of virtue (sarcasm directed at the dumb asses who think the poor were oppressing the wealthy, not you).
 
2013-05-27 04:32:44 PM  

RanDomino: the insurrection, which led to an end of the state's convict-leasing system

Hey liberals, tell me again how violence never works.


DeathByGeekSquad
I've always found the willingness to blindly support the purported underdog to be fascinating.

The weak are, by definition, never the oppressors.


I consider myself very liberal.

violence solves many problems.

certain types of people only understand a fist in the mouth or a knife to the guts.

just human nature
 
2013-05-27 04:48:02 PM  

Bender The Offender: Hey now, they lost $7,000 in a class action suit from the workers' families. Of course, the owners received.a $64,000 settlement from insurance to help offset the ruthless oppression of their dead workers. You are correct about them being cited a few years later for the exact same thing. As an added bonus, these poor oppressed job creators also had rules that led to employee fines for things such as "bathroom breaks", and "turning off machines to unjam them instead of getting your hand ripped off". Yes, those poor oppressed paragons of virtue (sarcasm directed at the dumb asses who think the poor were oppressing the wealthy, not you).


Wow, those guys were even more evil than I thought.  Seven thousand?  That divided among the over 100 families might be enough money to buy a cheap pine casket.  IIRC, the Triangle fire did help seamstresses organize into unions, so maybe something good came about it after all.

BTW, I have the same contempt that you have for the idiots who think that the poor oppress the rich.  That's why revolutions fail almost always--there's plenty of stupid corporate tools who will gladly throw away their lives to protect their right to getting screwed by the Man.  Just give them a spiffy new uniform, tell them that they're superior in some vague way, and *voila* you have an army of Pinkerton men who will shed blood for J.P. Morgan...
 
2013-05-27 04:51:16 PM  
You see me now a veteran of a 121-year War
I've been living on the edge so long
Where the winds of limbo roar
And I'm young enough to look at
And far too old to see
All the scars are on the inside
I'm not sure if there's anything left of me
 
2013-05-27 05:38:58 PM  

Psycat: not having kids is a very good way to minimize being exploited by the Man


And favorited.
 
2013-05-27 05:45:10 PM  

atomic-age: Psycat: not having kids is a very good way to minimize being exploited by the Man

And favorited.


Favorited?
 
2013-05-27 07:15:38 PM  
This is why I always hold a moment of silence as I take the Coal Creek Parkway up to the Newcastle golf course.
 
2013-05-27 08:27:25 PM  
Ah, History. Demonstrating why people who think deregulation is a good idea never studied it in school.

www.cobar.org
 
2013-05-27 09:04:32 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: trotsky: Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.

Amazing, isn't it? The history of violence between "Captains of Industry" (with US Government military support) versus underpaid, ill treated workers is impressive. But, you know, Unions are bad.

Welcome to 2012, same as 1892. Or, perhaps, things have evolved since then to where unions, once necessary for the health, safety, and well-being of workers, have evolved into corrupt organizations that serve only to suppress productivity and defend the shiftless while tossing out new workers in exchange for nickel-and-dime raises.

It's probably somewhere in the middle, actually. You give me an example of a good union action within the last 5 years and I'll counter with a bad one. You go first.


I'm guessing you've spent zero time down a Massey coal mine.
 
2013-05-27 10:52:30 PM  

Therion: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Cr eek_War

Fascinating like a train wreck, the lengths the American "captains of industry" went to against their own workers.


You say that like they're not still farking workers over.
 
2013-05-27 10:53:05 PM  
It's fascinating how the toothless inbred hillbillies of one thread are the noble downtrodden workers of another.
 
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