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(ABC)   Helicopter parenting rises to new altitudes: "Redshirting" kids at kindergarten so they are bigger, better at sports, and more academically adept than their peers   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 155
    More: Fail, helicopter parenting, preschool teacher, National Center for Education Statistics, tenth grade, kindergartens  
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16022 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 07:50:46 AM
I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.
 
2013-05-27 07:59:39 AM
Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.
 
2013-05-27 08:20:31 AM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


Yeah.  My neighbors did this with their two sons 40 years ago.

Doing it for sports is asshattery, but for emotional/social/educational reasons, I think it's valid.
 
2013-05-27 08:27:52 AM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


Exactly. Now that we are looking at schools for our kids, I've noticed the cut off date for the child's birthday is earlier than when I was a child. In our district, it's in early September, but it was Nov. 1 when I was five. Nt that it mattered to me, because my birthday is in August.
 
2013-05-27 08:33:00 AM

Earguy: Doing it for sports is asshattery


And not terribly effective, the only place they'd get any advantage would be in intramural.  Any league outside of school is age based, not grade based.
 
2013-05-27 08:49:45 AM
This isn't new.
 
2013-05-27 08:57:39 AM
Yeah but if they beam down with Kirk and McCoy, they're farked.
 
2013-05-27 09:02:32 AM
If the kid isn't ready, especially socially, sure, why not?

If the kid *is* ready, you're just buying yourself a 1st grade year with you kid acting out because he's bored, frustrated, and not interacting at his level.
 
2013-05-27 09:04:35 AM

Mugato: Yeah but if they beam down with Kirk and McCoy, they're farked.


And as Galaxy Quest pointed out, they just get called "Crewman".
 
2013-05-27 09:05:52 AM

czetie: If the kid isn't ready, especially socially, sure, why not?

If the kid *is* ready, you're just buying yourself a 1st grade year with you kid acting out because he's bored, frustrated, and not interacting at his level.


And the drugs, don't forget the drugs.
 
2013-05-27 09:22:28 AM

JerseyTim: This isn't new.


Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom
 
2013-05-27 09:25:13 AM
My older son went when he was ready. There has been a hiccup or two along the way because he's the youngest in his class. But he does fine. Sports doesn't really matter since most around here are done by age anyway. My younger son waited a year because he just wasn't ready. It worked out well too. There's these things called teachers and sometimes they use assessments to help parents decide when is the right time to enroll. I suggest seeking them out if there are any in your area. They seem really helpful.
 
2013-05-27 09:48:01 AM
Got sent to Kindergarten at four, graduated high school at 17, college at 21.

Shockingly being able to kick a kickball a shorter distance in recess in 2nd grade than my classmates hasn't been brought up by any employers.
 
2013-05-27 10:02:07 AM
Thank goodness I read the article.  When I saw "redshirting" I thought they meant as members of the away time on an unexplored world.  That would be a terrible thing to do with kids.
 
2013-05-27 10:03:44 AM
When I switched to private school most of the kids in my grade were held back.  I think it worked well.  The biggest advantage they had wasn't for sports, they got their driver's license a year early!

Anecdotally, I'd say those held back were probably a little better socially too.  Not all, but on average.
 
2013-05-27 10:06:56 AM
More parents are putting off a child's kindergarten entry so he or she will be a little older than the classmates. It's a phenomenon known as redshirting.

When I was a kid, it was called "being held back a grade." The rest of the kids just assumed you were a moron who couldn't handle finger painting and was probably going to eat all the paste.
 
2013-05-27 10:07:25 AM
"Teachers may encourage redshirting because more mature children are easier to handle in the classroom and initially produce better test scores than their younger classmates. In a class of 25, the average difference is equivalent to going from 13th place to 11th. This advantage fades by the end of elementary school, though, and disadvantages start to accumulate. In high school, redshirted children are less motivated and perform less well. By adulthood, they are no better off in wages or educational attainment - in fact, their lifetime earnings are reduced by one year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kind e rgartners-start.html

Turns out the youngest kids in a class are more motivated by their peers' example to catch up, while the older tend to learn they can coast.
 
2013-05-27 10:09:16 AM

sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.


library.sc.edu

Speak for yourself, cornuto.  I liberated my homeland; what have you done with your life?
 
2013-05-27 10:10:43 AM
Hmmm...haven't I read about this somewhere before?

nichequest.com
 
2013-05-27 10:12:46 AM
There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.
 
2013-05-27 10:12:52 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Got sent to Kindergarten at four, graduated high school at 17, college at 21.


Same for me.  Although annoying that I couldn't get in bars until a few weeks into my senior year in college.
 
2013-05-27 10:13:21 AM

sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.


That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.
 
2013-05-27 10:14:18 AM
I was one of the youngest in my class, and I was totally fine academically. Socially, I wasn't... but I was hanging out with older kids in the neighborhood, not the younger ones. My dad got "red-shirted" because they tried to put him in Kindergarten on time but there was some kind of bus drop-off mix up and he didn't handle it well and they realized he wasn't really ready. My mom was one of the youngest in her class and was totally fine socially but wasn't ready for high school math when she started 9th grade which really impacted her badly.

In conclusion, have your kids in February-May. It's easier for everybody.
 
2013-05-27 10:14:48 AM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

[library.sc.edu image 410x600]

Speak for yourself, cornuto.  I liberated my homeland; what have you done with your life?


Yeah but Garibaldi's on a totally different show.
 
2013-05-27 10:15:45 AM
When I enroll my daughter in kindergarten, it will be to stop paying for daycare.

/aren't they the same thing?
 
2013-05-27 10:17:34 AM
this is why a monolithic approach to education is silly.

we should have some kids start in January. that way you could move forward or backward a half grade and it wouldn't be as big of a jump.
 
2013-05-27 10:17:49 AM
This certainly gives an edge to kiddie athletes, as readers of Gladwell's essay about hockey players in Canada should know.

And if it's true that boys suffer in the new US kindergarten-is-the-new-1st-grade educational frame, then holding them back a grade would at least keep them from falling behind.


/pointed-headed inty-llectual
//thinks that society will always revere men's bulk over their brains
///they don't innocently ask about activities and sports on college applications
////look like a winner
Vdon't look like a loser
 
2013-05-27 10:19:24 AM

ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.


My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.
 
2013-05-27 10:21:01 AM

Nabb1: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Exactly. Now that we are looking at schools for our kids, I've noticed the cut off date for the child's birthday is earlier than when I was a child. In our district, it's in early September, but it was Nov. 1 when I was five. Nt that it mattered to me, because my birthday is in August.


I disagree, and had the same discussion with my wife about our son (birthday in June). She felt he could stand to mature another year before school. I pointed out that within a few years he'd catch up regardless. Having an August birthday myself and going through being one of the younger people in my grade level, my argument was that he could deal with any early challenges with our help, because by middle school it'd be moot. But, if we waited to send him, that'd be a year of his life he'd never get back.

He'shiatting fifth grade in August this year. The few early problems were dealt with fairly easily and he's doing fine, and, like I did, he'll graduate at 17 and head into college - without essentially being penalized a year of time.
 
2013-05-27 10:21:25 AM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


In England, children start the school in the school year (September 1st - August 31st) in which they have their fifth birthday. That means you have children aged 4 years and 1 day starting with children aged 5 years. At that age, one year can be a huge difference, both physically and intellectually, and there is very good evidence that summer born children continue to have problems for a long time afterwards. They are, for example, significantly less likely to go to Oxford or Cambridge and significantly less likely to play professional football.

In Scotland children start aged between 4 1/2 and 5 1/2, and that appears to have fewer disadvantages.
 
2013-05-27 10:21:37 AM
A helicopter mother should plan for coitus only when the nine-month outcome would occur at the optimal time for the school year. For instance, race horses are all aged at January 1, thus most racehorses are born as soon after January 1 as possible when the weather is particularly nasty.

For a Farkin' Genius however, it's just luck unless you subscribe to Divine Providence.

the-big-bang-theory.com
 
2013-05-27 10:22:24 AM
From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.


Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?
 
2013-05-27 10:22:26 AM

Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.


"We need a team for this exploratory mission! Okay, let's see, we have Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Ensign Ricky. Good luck, Ricky."
 
2013-05-27 10:25:20 AM

Nabb1: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Exactly. Now that we are looking at schools for our kids, I've noticed the cut off date for the child's birthday is earlier than when I was a child. In our district, it's in early September, but it was Nov. 1 when I was five. Nt that it mattered to me, because my birthday is in August.


When I started school, the cutoff in my district was actually December 31st.  I was one of the youngest in my class because I had a November birthday. I graduated at 17..My folks could have easily waited a year.  A few years later they moved the cutoff to August 1st.
 
2013-05-27 10:25:51 AM
You folks understand why this generations-old phenomenon is suddenly a problem, don't you?

""The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Back in the one-room schoolhouse on the prairie, kids of all ages learned together under one teacher.  The older ones helped the younger ones, reinforcing what the older ones had learned and building a cooperative community.

Today, kids are segregated into one-year grade levels, with a "state standard curriculum" for each year.  That's the teachers' problem, not the developmental gap between 4.5 and 6 year-olds.
 
2013-05-27 10:26:15 AM
I was "redshirted" when I was grade school...but in a more of a "Star Treky" way :(
 
2013-05-27 10:26:25 AM
www.hautus.org
 
2013-05-27 10:27:07 AM

Carousel Beast: He'shiatting fifth grade in August this year.


Yeah I know that feeling. That's how I felt about fifth grade too.
 
2013-05-27 10:27:53 AM

Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.


Frowns on your ignorance.
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-27 10:27:54 AM

Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.


He will be able to drive to middle school though, but he better not date his classmates in high school.
 
2013-05-27 10:29:21 AM

Mouser: From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?


No, parents are afraid that Law Enforcement will get involved. Because laws must be enforced.
 
2013-05-27 10:30:07 AM

eldoobie: Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.

He will be able to drive to middle school though, but he better not date his classmates in high school.


lol

Instant crime is fun
 
2013-05-27 10:30:37 AM
Good idea because DA RED WUNS GOES FASTA!!
 
2013-05-27 10:30:47 AM

Earguy: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Yeah.  My neighbors did this with their two sons 40 years ago.

Doing it for sports is asshattery, but for emotional/social/educational reasons, I think it's valid.


...and then the kid gets ridiculed for being "held back" when his friends find out.
 
2013-05-27 10:32:41 AM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: "Teachers may encourage redshirting because more mature children are easier to handle in the classroom and initially produce better test scores than their younger classmates. In a class of 25, the average difference is equivalent to going from 13th place to 11th. This advantage fades by the end of elementary school, though, and disadvantages start to accumulate. In high school, redshirted children are less motivated and perform less well. By adulthood, they are no better off in wages or educational attainment - in fact, their lifetime earnings are reduced by one year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kind e rgartners-start.html

Turns out the youngest kids in a class are more motivated by their peers' example to catch up, while the older tend to learn they can coast.


I'll give you one exception. My nephew went to kindergarten at the normal age but could not master staying in his seat or concentrating on the work at hand. He was just not socially developed enough at the time. His brother, admitted at the appropriate level, was a prefect student.
 
2013-05-27 10:33:11 AM

Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.


WTF? My son turns eight in June and is going into the third grade this year.
 
2013-05-27 10:33:47 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]


TNG was a sequel, not a reboot.
 
2013-05-27 10:34:07 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]


Technically, that's a sequel, isn't it?  Reboots start the story over using the same characters.
 
2013-05-27 10:34:49 AM
Just enroll them when they're ready.  I did Pre-K at 3.5 and Kindergarten at 4.5 and turned out fine because I was ready.  If that means delaying, so be it.  Don't delay them if they're ready though, that's ridiculous. lolparents

Igor Jakovsky: When I started school, the cutoff in my district was actually December 31st. I was one of the youngest in my class because I had a November birthday. I graduated at 17..My folks could have easily waited a year. A few years later they moved the cutoff to August 1st.


Very same thing happened to me (December birthday), and I am glad that I made it under the old cutoff.  They actually changed it the very next year in my district.  Graduating at 17 was actually pretty awesome.
 
2013-05-27 10:35:24 AM
This has always been around.  Either your kid graduates at 17 or 18.  If it's 16 or 19 you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-05-27 10:35:26 AM
My birthday is in November so I started school when I was 4. It didn't work out too well, eventually I was kept back a grade. I fit in much better after that, most of my friends were in same grade, it just felt like I should have been there all along.
This was back in the 60's when there weren't any terms like "red-shirting" or "helicopter moms" or drugs to make us behave.
 
2013-05-27 10:37:43 AM

TheSelphie: Just enroll them when they're ready.  I did Pre-K at 3.5 and Kindergarten at 4.5 and turned out fine because I was ready.  If that means delaying, so be it.  Don't delay them if they're ready though, that's ridiculous. lolparents

Igor Jakovsky: When I started school, the cutoff in my district was actually December 31st. I was one of the youngest in my class because I had a November birthday. I graduated at 17..My folks could have easily waited a year. A few years later they moved the cutoff to August 1st.

Very same thing happened to me (December birthday), and I am glad that I made it under the old cutoff.  They actually changed it the very next year in my district.  Graduating at 17 was actually pretty awesome.


My parents could never have afforded to send me to a private school, but they did send me to a private school for a year of preschool.  That really ended up starting me off on the right foot for school.
 
2013-05-27 10:38:47 AM

Mugato: StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]

TNG was a sequel, not a reboot.


If that helps you sleep at night.
 
2013-05-27 10:41:22 AM

StoPPeRmobile: TNG was a sequel, not a reboot.


If that helps you sleep at night.


LOL, where did that come from? TNG takes place 80 years after the original series and involves different characters. Use your words.
 
2013-05-27 10:44:15 AM

Mouser: From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?


...the kind of parent that would do this would not send their kid to public school.
 
2013-05-27 10:45:09 AM
My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.
 
2013-05-27 10:45:12 AM
I was on the younger end. Turned 18 a week before graduating. My daughter is on the younger end too. I remember a girl that was even a few months younger than me, super smart though. Then there were the kids that had summer birthdays that had their license before sophomore year started, which was awesom(back before all these newfangled driving rules for new drivers.). So yeah, nothing new here.
 
2013-05-27 10:46:00 AM

TheSelphie: Just enroll them when they're ready.  I did Pre-K at 3.5 and Kindergarten at 4.5 and turned out fine because I was ready.  If that means delaying, so be it.  Don't delay them if they're ready though, that's ridiculous. lolparents

Igor Jakovsky: When I started school, the cutoff in my district was actually December 31st. I was one of the youngest in my class because I had a November birthday. I graduated at 17..My folks could have easily waited a year. A few years later they moved the cutoff to August 1st.

Very same thing happened to me (December birthday), and I am glad that I made it under the old cutoff.  They actually changed it the very next year in my district.  Graduating at 17 was actually pretty awesome.


It was pretty cool until I got to college and couldn't go into the clubs with my friends because they were 18 and up.
 
2013-05-27 10:46:19 AM

mesmer242: I was one of the youngest in my class, and I was totally fine academically. Socially, I wasn't... but I was hanging out with older kids in the neighborhood, not the younger ones. My dad got "red-shirted" because they tried to put him in Kindergarten on time but there was some kind of bus drop-off mix up and he didn't handle it well and they realized he wasn't really ready. My mom was one of the youngest in her class and was totally fine socially but wasn't ready for high school math when she started 9th grade which really impacted her badly.

In conclusion, have your kids in February-May. It's easier for everybody.


I had the same issue as you, I was even better academically but it took me until middle school to figure out social situations.

I'm thinking of doing red-shirting for my kids because ADD runs in the family and it'll probably be better for them to be a bit older. It'll still depend on the kid though.
 
2013-05-27 10:46:59 AM

simplicimus: czetie: If the kid isn't ready, especially socially, sure, why not?

If the kid *is* ready, you're just buying yourself a 1st grade year with you kid acting out because he's bored, frustrated, and not interacting at his level.

And the drugs, don't forget the drugs.


I held back my first child by three years just so I could steal his Ritalin.
 
2013-05-27 10:50:03 AM
My son starts junior kindergarten (or provincially-paid daycare, as I call it) this fall.  Then regular kindergarten next year.  He's born in October so will start K at 4 (he's 3 now).  Here, you start kindergarten the calendar year (Jan 1 to Dec 31) you turn 5.  My two best friends both have kids starting the same time - one a February baby who is a big hulk of a kid that doesn't talk so good, and the other a June-born freaking genius child with social issues (he's adding and subtracting at not-quite-four).  My little mouthpiece I'm not worried about.  He's small, will be one of the youngest in his class, but I've seen him with groups of children his own age.  He gravitates to the older ones, and within a few minutes, has the whole group organized into a small mob doing his bidding.  I'm just waiting for the phone calls I'll inevitably get.

But that rambling aside, my anecdotal evidence is that even amongst 4 year olds, there is a HUGE difference of social and academic abilities.  I can't imagine the disparity among 4-6 year olds.  Here everyone starts that year they turn 5, or you'll suffer the stigma of being "held back" when your classmates realize you're older than them.
 
2013-05-27 10:51:17 AM
Oh and get to kow what they are getting ready to shove down your kids throats. Look up Common Core by Bill Gates. There is a new set of rules coming down the pike in the way they are going to teach the kids. They could not bring the scores up so they are dumbing down the lessons.

This is a link to a blog on it but there are links to other sites.

http://midtown.patch.com/blog_posts/common-core-by-bill-gates
 
2013-05-27 10:51:28 AM

mesmer242: I was one of the youngest in my class, and I was totally fine academically. Socially, I wasn't... but I was hanging out with older kids in the neighborhood, not the younger ones. My dad got "red-shirted" because they tried to put him in Kindergarten on time but there was some kind of bus drop-off mix up and he didn't handle it well and they realized he wasn't really ready. My mom was one of the youngest in her class and was totally fine socially but wasn't ready for high school math when she started 9th grade which really impacted her badly.

In conclusion, have your kids in February-May. It's easier for everybody.


the general consensus among early childhood development specialists is that the average girl, by the time they are 5, has already developed the verbal and fine motor skills it requires to sit in a classroom for long periods of time. Plus they are already socially gregarious by nature. Boys, who pop out of the womb knowing how to kick a soccer ball and throw a baseball, develop their verbal skills much later and the fine motor skills required for pushing a pencil across paper do not come naturally until 8. This is just the average and not true of every kid. but the kindergarten teacher will tell you that the hardest part of her job is keeping  the boys in their seats and getting the girls to shut up for five seconds.
 
2013-05-27 10:52:01 AM
By doing this, you also gain an extra year of the kid living at home. They'd finish up high school and go to college at 19 rather than 18.
You can decide for yourself if you think THAT is worth it.
 
2013-05-27 10:54:07 AM
I don't think this is the big deal you think it is, subby.
 
2013-05-27 10:55:08 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Got sent to Kindergarten at four, graduated high school at 17, college at 21.


Same here. Top in my class academically but, in retrospect, I wasn't socially mature enough and probably should have had an extra year. (My birthday was 9 days before the cutoff). Definitely shouldn't have started college at 17.
 
2013-05-27 10:55:09 AM
I'd name my kid "Kirk" and send him to school with an orange or yellow shirt instead.

But, seriously, this reminds me of the Worst Parents In The World I saw on a cruise ship years ago.  The parents were a couple of yuppie greedball types, and they were constantly encouraging their kids to play unfair.  Like when their three girls, aged about 8-10, were going on the water slide, the Type-A asshole parents were actually telling their daughters to cut in line.  And, everywhere else the family went on the ship, I saw the same thing--it's like the parents were trying to raise sociopaths.

Worse yet was when I was climbing around the top deck of the ship at about 1 AM.  I saw the girls--unsupervised, natch--running around the deck, climbing in funnels and basically trying to find a way to injure themselves.  Some guy admonished the girls to stop fooling around before they got hurt.  Their reaction?  They ran away giggling and yelling "Rape! Rape! Rape!"  I'll take a wild guess that their asshole parents told them to do that whenever an adult confronted them.  You don't have to be Nostradamus to guess that teaching your kids to make false rape accusations is going to lead to tragedy when the girls grow up enough to be taken seriously.  I'll bet the parents are total sociopathic scum along the lines of Michael Douglas' character who probably run some sort of investment scam or other ethically-questionable business...
 
2013-05-27 10:55:14 AM

IlGreven: ...the kind of parent that would do this would not send their kid to public school.


You're absolutely wrong.
 
2013-05-27 10:57:35 AM
We didn't have this shiat when I was a kid.  My father sent me to kindergarten when I was two.  We were too poor to afford red shirts so Dad would backhand us until our torsos and arms were beat red and say "There's your shirts, pussies."  Seeing as this was back before buses had been invented, the old man had to set us up on tees out in the yard and punt us to school.  If it was one of our birthdays, he would tie a pillow to our face before lining up like Janikowski  and sending us on our way to the learnin' factory.  Once there, the teacher taught us our ABCs by swiping the letters on to our bodies with a swashbuckler sword until we got that shiat right.  Zorro style.  Before we could graduate and move on to first grade, we had to defeat President Taft in an Alaskan leg wrestling match.  I got held back four times before I put that fat fark on the ground.  Dad was so proud that day that he punched me in the face twice, while shouting 'Snitches get stiches!"  By the time we were ready for college, which was about age nine, we laughed in the faces of the Ivy League schools that were begging us to come to their schools.  When the guy from Harvard got on his knees and said, "I'll suck yo dick!", I simply scratched my beard and laughed the mighty laugh of my people.  Then I proceeded to pull out my junk and batted that guy over the neighboring four counties.  Because back then we all had beards and huge cocks.  Kids are just weak today.
 
2013-05-27 10:59:17 AM
Redshirting has clear athletic benefits - if your student is strong/coordinated enough to be an athlete to begin with.

Being larger and more developed makes the kid taller, stronger, and more mature throughout school. That means they will get more attention by coaches / P.E. instructors, they will get the ball far more often in teams sports, and other kids will differ to them based upon their greater fitness. That benefit is there from grade school through high school. All of that extra attention in grade/middle school will translate to far more experience when they hit high school - which means that they will make varsity squads far sooner than other kids. And three or sometimes even four years of varsity experience in high school provides a clear benefit when trying to get into college sports.

There was a shocking study done with the NHL a couple years back. They discovered that for the American NHL players - 90% graduated from high school at 19 (or older) - meaning that they were among the oldest in their class (due to being held back or redshirted). Having that leg-up all through school has clear benefits.
 
2013-05-27 10:59:58 AM

Mouser: From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?


No, it's the differing ages. Let's say their was no standard curriculum. That the teacher got to decide for themselves what the roomful of children in front of them should learn. The developmental gap would still cause issues because you have one teacher trying to teach many children across a range of ages the same thing at the same time. Whether the thing being taught is the state curriculum or whatever Cletus Q farkstick comes up with, teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.
 
2013-05-27 11:03:14 AM

Anthracite: My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.


So you're going to pull your kid out of school because they're going to challenge him.
 
2013-05-27 11:06:15 AM

Anthracite: Oh and get to kow what they are getting ready to shove down your kids throats. Look up Common Core by Bill Gates. There is a new set of rules coming down the pike in the way they are going to teach the kids. They could not bring the scores up so they are dumbing down the lessons.


Aren't you the guy who was just complaining that teaching a 6 year old anything more complicated than making an X was pushing them too hard?
 
2013-05-27 11:07:46 AM

Mouser: From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?


Ah, we have found the retard of the thread! Thanks for showing up Mouser.
 
2013-05-27 11:08:30 AM
If the kid is not ready mentally, he gets to do a year over again.

Or did the US get rid off that too when they lowered the bar?
 
2013-05-27 11:09:06 AM
Parents. If you insist on red-shorting your kids, don't go signing any permission slips for school trips.
 
2013-05-27 11:11:47 AM

Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.


They should have got Sean Bean to play him, or some other known actor. A no-name actor in a red shirt on the away party was to big give away.
 
2013-05-27 11:11:48 AM

lucksi: If the kid is not ready mentally, he gets to do a year over again.

Or did the US get rid off that too when they lowered the bar?


Is it possible for a kid who's never been to kindergarten to repeat it? Seek the answer to that question and you may figure out what we're talking about.
 
2013-05-27 11:12:27 AM
I know Gladwell's not cool around these parts, but Outliers pretty much convinced me that this is one of the best ways you can give your kid a leg up in school if you can't arrange to just have him born to older, richer, more Jewish parents, preferably in the 1870s.
 
2013-05-27 11:12:37 AM

wild9: Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.

WTF? My son turns eight in June and is going into the third grade this year.


Yeah, no kidding. I hate to tell the parent, but that kid is gonna have a job with his name on his shirt.
 
2013-05-27 11:13:53 AM

Anthracite: My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.


6 months to learn how to cross 2 lines to make an "X"? Sounds like you made a gas station attendant - good for you!
 
2013-05-27 11:15:23 AM
 
2013-05-27 11:16:08 AM

Carousel Beast: I disagree, and had the same discussion with my wife about our son (birthday in June). She felt he could stand to mature another year before school. I pointed out that within a few years he'd catch up regardless. Having an August birthday myself and going through being one of the younger people in my grade level, my argument was that he could deal with any early challenges with our help, because by middle school it'd be moot. But, if we waited to send him, that'd be a year of his life he'd never get back.

He'shiatting fifth grade in August this year. The few early problems were dealt with fairly easily and he's doing fine, and, like I did, he'll graduate at 17 and head into college - without essentially being penalized a year of time.


I don't know if I agree with you on this.  I think there are benefits and drawbacks to starting a child earlier rather than later, but here you only mention "a year of his life he'd never get back" and "being penalized a year of time."

To me it sounds like you're treating childhood as a race to complete, rather than something that could be enjoyable.  What is the real benefit to the child of graduating at 17 instead of 18?  Starting college 12 months earlier?  Getting a job 12 months earlier?  Having one more year of life spent on your career vs spent in childhood?  By themselves, are those things really good?  It's not as though by graduating from high school or college a year sooner the child won't have to compete to be successful at the next level - they'll simply have to compete a year sooner.  It is really better to give a person one less year of what we would normally consider childhood, and is that year really a waste?

My wife and I had a conversation about this when she said at one point her school considered skipping her ahead a grade and I mentioned my mom had skipped a grade at one point.  We both decided we wouldn't want it for ourselves or our children.  We saw it exactly the opposite of you.  Why steal a year of someone's development and childhood from them?  Any challenges that resulted from that decision (bored at school, not challenged) we could address at home.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you came down on the side of it being a year of his life he'd never get back.
 
2013-05-27 11:20:32 AM
I skimmed the article twice... Does it ever mention where the term "redshirt" comes from?

Yes, I know all about the Trek reference, but I don't understand the connection to school.
 
2013-05-27 11:21:06 AM
I remember the 16 year-old redheaded hottie who showed up at my college... an engineering school with 15 guys for each girl.  By the end of her freshman year, she looked like she'd been riding horses from class to class.

Wonder when she started kindergarten.
 
2013-05-27 11:22:36 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]


The reboot is a reboot of the first Star Trek series. He is grammatically and  technically correct.

suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
 
2013-05-27 11:22:37 AM

TheOtherMisterP: I skimmed the article twice... Does it ever mention where the term "redshirt" comes from?

Yes, I know all about the Trek reference, but I don't understand the connection to school.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)
 
2013-05-27 11:24:34 AM
Like the rest of you said- people have been doing this for a long time and I don't see what is wrong with it. Now if you only reason for doing it is 'I want him to be big enough to make varsity football.' that is dumb but if your reason is 'I don't think he is ready for kindergarten (for whatever reason).' who cares? Being 1 year behind is not going to screw someone up. Falling behind in elementary school and not being able to catch up might. (although I do agree that most kids would catch up anyway)

Also, my college roomie was only 17 when we started college and she had a few issues of not technically being an adult but trying to do things herself- nothing serious, just annoying things like 'Oh well since you aren't 18 your parents will have to withdraw this refund for you' or something like that.
 
2013-05-27 11:24:41 AM

TheOtherMisterP: I skimmed the article twice... Does it ever mention where the term "redshirt" comes from?


It comes from college sports.  If someone is "red shirted" that means that he was on the team his freshman year, but didn't play in competition so that he retained his year of NCAA eligibility.

Hence a play who graduated from high school a year ago but sat out a year and is now using his first year of eligibility would be considered a red shirt freshman.  A player who graduated from high school and immediately started playing in the NCAA without sitting out a year to develop would be considered a true freshman.
 
2013-05-27 11:26:43 AM

IlGreven: Earguy: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Yeah.  My neighbors did this with their two sons 40 years ago.

Doing it for sports is asshattery, but for emotional/social/educational reasons, I think it's valid.

...and then the kid gets ridiculed for being "held back" when his friends find out.


In my grade the few kids who were held back were *not* kids who anyone did or would ridicule. Basically they were giant monsters who were a year bigger than everyone else. And everyone knew if you screwed with them they could beat you up.
 
2013-05-27 11:29:52 AM

czetie: If the kid isn't ready, especially socially, sure, why not?

If the kid *is* ready, you're just buying yourself a 1st grade year with you kid acting out because he's bored, frustrated, and not interacting at his level.


It think they should try a little harder to teach to kid's skill level because there are kids who are going to get bored and frustrated anyway. When I was working with kindergarteners- mostly helping them with reading- some of them could easily read all of the basic books they had- others didn't even know the letters yet. You think that all 6 year olds are at the same level so they all are always perfectly engaged with the lesson and never get bored (either because they already know it or because they are completely lost)?
 
2013-05-27 11:31:17 AM

darkvstar: mesmer242: I was one of the youngest in my class, and I was totally fine academically. Socially, I wasn't... but I was hanging out with older kids in the neighborhood, not the younger ones. My dad got "red-shirted" because they tried to put him in Kindergarten on time but there was some kind of bus drop-off mix up and he didn't handle it well and they realized he wasn't really ready. My mom was one of the youngest in her class and was totally fine socially but wasn't ready for high school math when she started 9th grade which really impacted her badly.

In conclusion, have your kids in February-May. It's easier for everybody.

the general consensus among early childhood development specialists is that the average girl, by the time they are 5, has already developed the verbal and fine motor skills it requires to sit in a classroom for long periods of time. Plus they are already socially gregarious by nature. Boys, who pop out of the womb knowing how to kick a soccer ball and throw a baseball, develop their verbal skills much later and the fine motor skills required for pushing a pencil across paper do not come naturally until 8. This is just the average and not true of every kid. but the kindergarten teacher will tell you that the hardest part of her job is keeping  the boys in their seats and getting the girls to shut up for five seconds.


"Just the average" and "statistically significant" can still mean those bell curves are a hell of a lot closer together than you think. I say this as a parent of a daughter who learned how to throw a ball before her peers and didn't speak almost at all until age 2 (thank god she caught up suddenly before we had to get her evaluated again). Schools in general are pushing all kids to shut up and sit still far before it's developmentally appropriate.... that's a battle we should be fighting for all kids, not just boys or girls.
 
2013-05-27 11:34:43 AM

Anthracite: Oh and get to kow what they are getting ready to shove down your kids throats. Look up Common Core by Bill Gates. There is a new set of rules coming down the pike in the way they are going to teach the kids. They could not bring the scores up so they are dumbing down the lessons.

This is a link to a blog on it but there are links to other sites.

http://midtown.patch.com/blog_posts/common-core-by-bill-gates


If you think the common core is dumbing down kindergarten, you should stop reading blogs busy with "OMG! Bill Gates!" and start reading the actual standards.
 
2013-05-27 11:36:54 AM
I just think it's funny that the bulk of Fark commenters picked the Star Trek red shirt reference, and not the college sports "red-shirted" reference.
 
2013-05-27 11:37:59 AM

JerseyTim: This isn't new.


really, who thought this was a new thing?
 
2013-05-27 11:41:57 AM
My wife's nephew (more accurately - the nephew's crazy ass wife) decided to redshirt all of their kids with the specific intent of giving them a leg up on their peers regarding both academics and sports. Related: She also thinks Jesus rode a dinosaur into the sunset. Or the fossils were placed on earth by the hand of God to test our faith or something.

The kids are all < 10 so the jury is still out on how her cunning plan is going to work out. I'll report back in this thread in 5 years to let you all know the outcome.
 
2013-05-27 11:42:25 AM
My parents technically put me into school a year early (my birthday was in mid-August) and despite excelling academically, the schools would always try to hold me back a year because I was younger than all the other kids.

The fact that they wanted to hold me back for something as stupid as my age upset me--particularly since I had passed the year before with straight As, so there was no GOOD reason to hold me back. Thankfully, my parents fought for me, so I never was held back, but the memory of that laid the foundations for me to become quite the cynic.

"Why should I work hard? Those jerk administrators will just try to keep me behind for my age anyways. Why should I care that the other kids are older than me? Those other kids are stupid and I do not care what they think." X-D
 
2013-05-27 11:43:55 AM
Oh I'm totally going to do this with my kids, in fact I'll keep them home so long before I let them out into the cruel competitive world that they'll be like Rodney Dangerfield by the time they hit High School.

Also, FTA... "leave home"? So starting kindergarten is 'leaving home'? No wonder these helicopter types are worried, I had no idea starting kindergarten now meant getting your own place and flying the nest, how times change.
 
2013-05-27 11:44:31 AM

thecpt: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

really, who thought this was a new thing?


No one. This reporter whipped up a story about nothing a couple of weeks ago so she could take a long weekend.

The article is missing ANY kind of statistic that shows the practice is actually increasing.
 
2013-05-27 11:49:16 AM

thurstonxhowell: Mouser: From TFA:

Redshirting poses challenges not only to children but to teachers and parents.

"The teacher is mostly impacted by it. They are dealing with children of ages ranging between four and a half and six and a half. This is a large developmental gap when trying to get through the state standard curricula," said Vela.

Isn't the problem here not the differing ages, but that the kids are being taught to a state standard curricula?

No, it's the differing ages. Let's say their was no standard curriculum. That the teacher got to decide for themselves what the roomful of children in front of them should learn. The developmental gap would still cause issues because you have one teacher trying to teach many children across a range of ages the same thing at the same time. Whether the thing being taught is the state curriculum or whatever Cletus Q farkstick comes up with, teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.


He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.
 
2013-05-27 11:52:07 AM
Where I live the cut off is December 31. My youngest is in kindergarten this year, his birthday is at the end of December. The pressure from friends and family to hold him back was huge. In the end we decided to send him because he could sit criss cross applesauce, sing, and colour just fine. He knows his abc's and 123's which is all that is required of him in kindergarten. We also were eager to end the $1000/month daycare fee. He's pretty popular with the little boy crowd as well. I think it's partly because he has an older brother and knows a lot of choice swear words. He is pretty small for his age, and is literally the smallest kid in the whole school. That part does worry me.

I have a kid with an early January birthday as well, so I should have some anecdotal evidence in 10 years. He was ready for kindergarten the year before he was able to go, and waiting was pretty hard for him, he was pretty bored. Obviously that experience factored into our decision with the younger son.

Sport are always age grouped by jan-dec year, regardless of school grade. Always. I have a friend who held her kid back, but now regrets it because he cannot play hockey with his friends being a year older than everyone.
 
2013-05-27 11:55:31 AM

Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.


Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.
 
2013-05-27 12:03:02 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I remember the 16 year-old redheaded hottie who showed up at my college... an engineering school with 15 guys for each girl.  By the end of her freshman year, she looked like she'd been riding horses from class to class.

Wonder when she started kindergarten.


Go on...
 
2013-05-27 12:04:57 PM

thurstonxhowell: lucksi: If the kid is not ready mentally, he gets to do a year over again.

Or did the US get rid off that too when they lowered the bar?

Is it possible for a kid who's never been to kindergarten to repeat it? Seek the answer to that question and you may figure out what we're talking about.


The answer to your irrelevant question is: the kid cannot.

To help pull the blanket from your head and let in some light, the kid goes to kindergarden where observations can be made by professionals on whether or not mental readiness is present. The kid can then REPEAT kindergarden if warranted. And (hang onto your dunce cap) the kid can go forward and THEN at some future time repeat a grade because the gap in mental readiness may not show itself until later in life.
 
2013-05-27 12:07:57 PM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


True, but that is not what the article is talking about. It is talking about the practice of taking a kid who is ready and not enrolling them for another year so that they will be more developed than their classmates when they do start.
 
2013-05-27 12:10:30 PM
We wanted to hold one of my boys back, but the school kept saying, "he'll be bored."  He kept passing, but his grades kept getting lower and lower.  He failed 3 of 5 classes in 7th grade, but the school used his CRCT passing, as the reason for sending him on to 8th grade.  He failed every class, all year long, failed the CRCT, and suddenly the school says, the CRCT is meaningless, and he's ready for 9th grade.  It took almost an act of God to get the school to retain him for the 8th grade.
 
2013-05-27 12:12:55 PM
Yeah I thought twice about enrolling my 8 year old in kindergarten, but that homeschool BS was driving me nuts.

But look at him NOW! He's been Highschool varsity six years in a row!
 
2013-05-27 12:14:13 PM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


My daughter's kindergarten class is populated with red-shirted kids.  I'll even go as far as to say that the MAJORITY of students in her class were red-shirted.  She's she second youngest child in her class, having turned 5 at the end of last summer.  During this academic year, a couple kids even turned 7 years old.  Most of the kids turned 6 during the school year.

7 year olds should not be in kindergarten with 5 year olds.

These red-shirted kids are developmentally delayed or anything.  They come from well-heeled families who want their kids to have every possible advantage.
 
2013-05-27 12:14:31 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]


Uh, The Next Generation was not a reboot.
 
2013-05-27 12:16:23 PM

thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.


Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.
 
2013-05-27 12:28:30 PM

wild9: Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.

WTF? My son turns eight in June and is going into the third grade this year.


Yeah it's weird.  She's not very big though.  I think she's a refugee but she speaks perfect english.  Of course young kids pick up new languages in about three seconds.
 
2013-05-27 12:29:32 PM

Marlys: Where I live the cut off is December 31. My youngest is in kindergarten this year, his birthday is at the end of December. The pressure from friends and family to hold him back was huge. In the end we decided to send him because he could sit criss cross applesauce, sing, and colour just fine. He knows his abc's and 123's which is all that is required of him in kindergarten. We also were eager to end the $1000/month daycare fee. He's pretty popular with the little boy crowd as well. I think it's partly because he has an older brother and knows a lot of choice swear words. He is pretty small for his age, and is literally the smallest kid in the whole school. That part does worry me.

I have a kid with an early January birthday as well, so I should have some anecdotal evidence in 10 years. He was ready for kindergarten the year before he was able to go, and waiting was pretty hard for him, he was pretty bored. Obviously that experience factored into our decision with the younger son.


I was in the same situation - birthday at the end of January, so the public schools wanted to hold me back by a year in Kindergarten. My folks raised hell since I was already reading, and ended up putting me in a private school for three years and then moving me back to public school, since they wouldn't hold back a third grader on the same justification.

I did have difficulty getting along with my classmates, but I don't know if age was an issue, as opposed to being the "new" kid. Cliques are already well established by third grade.
 
2013-05-27 12:32:44 PM
Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.
 
2013-05-27 12:34:16 PM

Igor Jakovsky: It was pretty cool until I got to college and couldn't go into the clubs with my friends because they were 18 and up.


Yeah I was going to add something about that... but I don't drink so it wasn't a huge problem for me.
 
2013-05-27 12:36:59 PM
We need more big dumb kids.

For employment in the armed forces...

mgoblog.com
 
2013-05-27 12:41:33 PM
I have a late November b-day and started K-garten at 4.

age didn't matter in high school cause Dad got transferred to London and  got served in the pubs as a 15 year old.

Yea for me!
 
2013-05-27 12:42:15 PM

uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.


We've turned education into competition. This isn't about "helicopter" parents, it's about "living vicariously through their kids" parents and "beating up the Joneses" parents. "I want my kid to be bigger and stronger than anyone there, and farther along developmentally, so it looks, at least for now, like my kid's superior."

Later, when your kid is two years older than everyone else, dumb as a stump because the intangibles he should've learned earlier weren't taught to him at the right time, developmentally speaking, and hostile as hell because he just can't socialize in any position other than that of domination, you can whine about how the school system failed you.
 
2013-05-27 12:44:44 PM
It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.
 
2013-05-27 12:46:15 PM
I teach third grade. Most of my students were born in 2004. I have one who was retained in kindergarten so he was born in 2003. This wasn't a red-shirting situation, this was a the parents would have loved for him to be promoted to first grade, but the kindergarten teacher and principal determined that he wasn't ready both academically and socially. I thought all year I was going to have to send him to summer school for math, but suddenly in the third trimester this year,he pulled it together and started getting 90s on his tests.

I also have two students who were born in 2005 and one born in 2004, but on December 31st. Their parents wanted them pushed ahead in pre-k. In pre-k you could see what a disaster that was. While they were all very bright, they were socially unprepared for the school setting. Now in third grade, you probably wouldn't point them out as the youngest in my class.

I guess I'm just saying that it doesn't matter if kids are red-shirted or pushed ahead, the decision will eventually be meaningless. The kids will catch up.

Retention, as I mentioned in my first example; however, is a different ball game.
 
2013-05-27 12:50:13 PM

uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.


I think it's more of a case of them being able to afford an additional year of child care.
 
2013-05-27 01:03:41 PM

Mugato: StoPPeRmobile: TNG was a sequel, not a reboot.


If that helps you sleep at night.

LOL, where did that come from? TNG takes place 80 years after the original series and involves different characters. Use your words.


I was just being a troublemaker.
 
2013-05-27 01:09:15 PM

Jeteupthemiddle: uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.

I think it's more of a case of them being able to afford an additional year of child care.


...or being able to afford an additional year of one parent staying home.
 
2013-05-27 01:19:38 PM

uknowzit: It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.


I'm not sure its so unrealistic.  I recall being far more cognizant of peer pressure in school than I am now as an adult.  Now I realize that I have no peers.
 
2013-05-27 01:24:03 PM
Whatever. We did it with my oldest because he had chronic ear infections that impaired his speech for a little while. We took the extra year to work on his ability to communicate.

He was kind of a spaz, so it didn't give him any sort of edge in the athletic department. Taekwondo helped with that.
 
2013-05-27 01:33:46 PM
No one else noticed the size of her arms?

She's probably holding him back to eat him.
 
2013-05-27 01:33:53 PM
I wish my parents had done this, then I would not have failed first grade.
 
2013-05-27 01:55:05 PM
As a PreK teacher I used to have conversations with parents where I told them their child was not ready for Kindergarten and it is definitely better to keep them out a year then have them end up repeating a grade later. Now I have conversations where I tell them YES! Your child, who you already kept in PreK for 2 years is READY for Kinder, and keeping them out another year s not the right thing to do.

A new one I heard this year was the high school quarterback being redshirted at the end of 6th grade. He had a summer birthday so at the end of 6th grade they took him out of the school district and had him repeat 6th grade at a private school and then start 7th grade back in the school district a year. I guess it all worked out well since they won the championship //sarcasm
 
2013-05-27 02:07:00 PM

Earguy: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Yeah.  My neighbors did this with their two sons 40 years ago.

Doing it for sports is asshattery, but for emotional/social/educational reasons, I think it's valid.


We never did it for sports, but for maturity reasons.   He wasn't ready - in fact, his Kindergarten teacher was the one, who a year later, said, "Good call, (son) needs his playtime He needs this year."  We have zero regrets 19 years later.  High School and College worked out great for him.
 
2013-05-27 02:08:57 PM
Yeah, I love these kids.  They are turds, so their parents don't let them start kindergarten til they are 6 and they turn 7 before the end of the year.  So my kid, who is extremely smart, starts kindergarten at 4 and has to deal with Gigantor who is dumb, and a turd, is 12 inches taller and has 30 pounds on my kid.  When my kid started 2nd grade there was one kid going into kindergarten older than him.

If EVERYONE red shirted, there would be no more perceived advantage, which is why society decided, "kids start school at 5."  Reshirting parents are cowards and raise turds.
 
2013-05-27 02:22:06 PM
Only an idiot starts their child in school for kindergarten.

Pre-school should be mandatory.
 
2013-05-27 02:25:38 PM

Brave: As a PreK teacher I used to have conversations with parents where I told them their child was not ready for Kindergarten and it is definitely better to keep them out a year then have them end up repeating a grade later. Now I have conversations where I tell them YES! Your child, who you already kept in PreK for 2 years is READY for Kinder, and keeping them out another year s not the right thing to do.

A new one I heard this year was the high school quarterback being redshirted at the end of 6th grade. He had a summer birthday so at the end of 6th grade they took him out of the school district and had him repeat 6th grade at a private school and then start 7th grade back in the school district a year. I guess it all worked out well since they won the championship //sarcasm


As a pre-K teacher, what's your opinion on red shirting kids who are genetically prone or have ADD and other learning disabilities?

I read outliers and how the kids that are the youngest in the class are more likely to be diagnosed with LDs.

Would an extra year help?
 
2013-05-27 02:38:43 PM
More alarmist garbage about a non-existent problem.

This has been going on since before I was born..

I'm doing it to my kid.. his birthday is in late August and he's not ready for kindergarden. My business, not yours, ABC.
 
2013-05-27 02:42:34 PM
"Son, it's bigger because you're 18."
 
2013-05-27 02:52:15 PM

Benjimin_Dover: thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.

Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.


No, he created a position to argue with that does not exist. This topic has fark all to do with state standards in education, no matter how much he wants it to be about that.
 
2013-05-27 02:53:40 PM

Ebbelwoi: This has always been around.  Either your kid graduates at 17 or 18.  If it's 16 or 19 you're doing it wrong.


Because when they get to 37, it's really, really going to matter.
 
2013-05-27 02:56:50 PM

thurstonxhowell: Let's say their was no standard curriculum. ... , teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.


If there was no standard curriculum, you wouldn't be trying to teach the 4 1/2 year old and the 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 03:01:49 PM

uknowzit: It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.


Yes, because peer pressure at school stopped them finding out earlier.
 
2013-05-27 03:05:01 PM

Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom


personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.
 
2013-05-27 03:21:38 PM

orbister: thurstonxhowell: Let's say their was no standard curriculum. ... , teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.

If there was no standard curriculum, you wouldn't be trying to teach the 4 1/2 year old and the 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time.


Yes, you would. They wound up in the same grade and we have a finite number of teachers. Within one classroom, every student learns the same thing at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 03:26:56 PM

links136: Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom

personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.


What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.

I'll answer my own question. The alternative is for parents to supplement school education as they see fit. If the kid's falling behind, help them where they are struggling. If they are way ahead. nurture that. Tell them that they still have to do well at school, but stimulate their intellect as best you can when they are outside the classroom. During the time they are at school, understand that they are in a room full of people who are not them, and that the resources to treat each child differently do not exist.

Ideally, each student would have a teacher of their own. That's not realistic, so deal with it.
 
2013-05-27 04:05:38 PM

Civchic: I just think it's funny that the bulk of Fark commenters picked the Star Trek red shirt reference, and not the college sports "red-shirted" reference.


Consider the audience. Didn't surprise me at all.  :)
 
2013-05-27 04:20:00 PM
I was one of those big little kids and having older siblings I was also reading and writing when I went into Kindergarten. I was a normal student in the end.

Just let the kids be kids again
 
2013-05-27 04:52:51 PM
My parents did this with me in the 80's, before it was cool, and I have never forgiven them.  Based on testing, I was supposed to start when I was4 and a half, but they kept me back until I was almost 6.

Constantly being made fun of by the other kids for being freakishly tall, and knowing all the answers to everything.  Being slightly older than everyone else in my grade, which in turn means that I finished college slightly older than everyone else.  Which means that because of my parents I wasted even more of my life in school than anyone else I knew.  They stole almost a year of my life, and their precious plan backfired.

Little kids pick on anyone who's different, including if the difference is that they're taller and smarter.  By the time puberty hits it all evens out, so that kid is just plain older, which isn't any better.
 
2013-05-27 05:22:52 PM

Ebbelwoi: This has always been around.  Either your kid graduates at 17 or 18.  If it's 16 or 19 you're doing it wrong.


Or the kids had credit issues. I graduated at nineteen because, while my homeschooling was great, it just didn't have credits, so I had to re-take a lot of lower-level classes. It's not the end of the world if your kid graduates early or late.
 
2013-05-27 07:00:07 PM
My kid's got autism, speech and behavior problems.  That said, he's ALREADY bigger than the kids he'd normally be in class with and if he keeps up (wife and I aren't monsters, but we're not short) he'll be huge through school.  He's sort of a spaz though, so that's not helping him.

Whatever.  I'd never keep him back just for sports in any event.  A bored kid is trouble.
 
2013-05-27 08:41:07 PM

thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.

Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.

No, he created a position to argue with that does not exist. This topic has fark all to do with state standards in education, no matter how much he wants it to be about that.


Well, then count me in the crowd that would have no idea why you would change his position to something else and then argue against that position if it isn't what the topic of the discussion is about anyways. If you actually believed that, then it may have been a better decision to just scroll passed his post as a worthless post unworthy of a response by you.
 
2013-05-27 08:44:06 PM

thurstonxhowell: links136: Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom

personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.

What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.

I'll answer my own question. The alternative is for parents to supplement school education as they see fit. If the kid's falling behind, help them where they are struggling. If they are way ahead. nurture that. Tell them that they still have to do well at school, but stimulate their intellect as best you can when they are outside the classroom. During the time they are at school, understand that they are in a room full of people who are not them, and that the resources to treat each child differently do not exist.

Ideally, each student would have a teacher of their own. That's not realistic, so deal with it.


I agree with you that parents should be actively involved in the education of their kids.
 
2013-05-27 10:05:58 PM

thurstonxhowell: Within one classroom, every student learns the same thing at the same time.


Erm, no. In my part of rural Scotland we have a large number of village primary (elementary) schools in which children from 5 to 12 are taught in one or two classes. They do not all learn the same thing at the same time.

Even when classes contain single year groups, different children can be and often are working on different things at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 10:11:56 PM

thurstonxhowell: What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.


It actually makes things simpler for teachers to have a class of thirty children of different ages but similar levels of attainment rather than a class of thirty children of similar ages and wildly varying levels of attainment.

Grouping children by age is simply a matter of administrative convenience.
 
2013-05-27 10:39:21 PM

Anthracite: My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.


I'm thinking home schooling might not be the way to go.
 
2013-05-28 08:17:51 AM

Quantum Tourist: Anthracite: My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.

I'm thinking home schooling might not be the way to go.


Maybe Anthracite will hire a very good private tutor.
 
2013-05-28 10:31:05 AM

Johnny Football Star: To me it sounds like you're treating childhood as a race to complete, rather than something that could be enjoyable. What is the real benefit to the child of graduating at 17 instead of 18? Starting college 12 months earlier? Getting a job 12 months earlier? Having one more year of life spent on your career vs spent in childhood? By themselves, are those things really good? It's not as though by graduating from high school or college a year sooner the child won't have to compete to be successful at the next level - they'll simply have to compete a year sooner. It is really better to give a person one less year of what we would normally consider childhood, and is that year really a waste?


Your method chooses how he spends the time. Mine gives the time back to him to spend as he pleases. It does not penalize him in any way to start him in school "early" - it definitely removes all possible choice he may have in the matter, long before he could possibly understand it, to go your way.

Hell, if nothing else, it would allow him taking an extra year in college versus spending a later year in High School "being a kid." If you ever went to college, you can't possibly argue the latter is better than the former.
 
2013-05-28 11:12:13 AM
This, like so many things, is a continuum: helicopter coddler assholes on one side and douchebag my kid is the most important in all society assholes on the other.  Most parents are in the middle and trying to do what's right.  Which doesn't make a very interesting story.
 
2013-05-28 12:14:17 PM
For decades now, I've held this idea that schools should have classrooms based on subject-by-level and the students move to the appropriate rooms at certain times of the day.  Literacy in the morning.  Math before lunch.  "Special Areas" (Art, Music, PE, Library, Computer Lab) while age groups cycle through recesses.  Science after lunch.  Social Studies before dismissal.  Test every 6 weeks to see which students has mastered the content for that class and can move on to the next level for that subject.  Recycle the ones who don't pass.  (Anyone else remember the days of doing it over until you got it right?) There is no failure, just success-when-ready.  Couple this structure with year-round school (I work year-round.  They need to get used to the idea too!) with year-round admissions so that children can start exactly when they turn 5, and you solve the age-related societal issues.  ECE laws are still upheld as those students are still in a "regular classroom environment".  When you turn 18, your transcript shows the level you achieved per subject.  (No GPA's!)  That would go on your resume to tell employers your  strengths and weaknesses.  Adult-Ed classes can increase those scores if needed.  Sports can be handled through outside agencies not related to schools.

Whaddaythink?

\Don't trod on my sod.
 
2013-05-28 04:00:09 PM
stay behind a year... Brilliant! Smoke me a kipper.

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
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