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(ABC)   Helicopter parenting rises to new altitudes: "Redshirting" kids at kindergarten so they are bigger, better at sports, and more academically adept than their peers   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 155
    More: Fail, helicopter parenting, preschool teacher, National Center for Education Statistics, tenth grade, kindergartens  
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16023 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 11:52:07 AM
Where I live the cut off is December 31. My youngest is in kindergarten this year, his birthday is at the end of December. The pressure from friends and family to hold him back was huge. In the end we decided to send him because he could sit criss cross applesauce, sing, and colour just fine. He knows his abc's and 123's which is all that is required of him in kindergarten. We also were eager to end the $1000/month daycare fee. He's pretty popular with the little boy crowd as well. I think it's partly because he has an older brother and knows a lot of choice swear words. He is pretty small for his age, and is literally the smallest kid in the whole school. That part does worry me.

I have a kid with an early January birthday as well, so I should have some anecdotal evidence in 10 years. He was ready for kindergarten the year before he was able to go, and waiting was pretty hard for him, he was pretty bored. Obviously that experience factored into our decision with the younger son.

Sport are always age grouped by jan-dec year, regardless of school grade. Always. I have a friend who held her kid back, but now regrets it because he cannot play hockey with his friends being a year older than everyone.
 
2013-05-27 11:55:31 AM

Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.


Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.
 
2013-05-27 12:03:02 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I remember the 16 year-old redheaded hottie who showed up at my college... an engineering school with 15 guys for each girl.  By the end of her freshman year, she looked like she'd been riding horses from class to class.

Wonder when she started kindergarten.


Go on...
 
2013-05-27 12:04:57 PM

thurstonxhowell: lucksi: If the kid is not ready mentally, he gets to do a year over again.

Or did the US get rid off that too when they lowered the bar?

Is it possible for a kid who's never been to kindergarten to repeat it? Seek the answer to that question and you may figure out what we're talking about.


The answer to your irrelevant question is: the kid cannot.

To help pull the blanket from your head and let in some light, the kid goes to kindergarden where observations can be made by professionals on whether or not mental readiness is present. The kid can then REPEAT kindergarden if warranted. And (hang onto your dunce cap) the kid can go forward and THEN at some future time repeat a grade because the gap in mental readiness may not show itself until later in life.
 
2013-05-27 12:07:57 PM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


True, but that is not what the article is talking about. It is talking about the practice of taking a kid who is ready and not enrolling them for another year so that they will be more developed than their classmates when they do start.
 
2013-05-27 12:10:30 PM
We wanted to hold one of my boys back, but the school kept saying, "he'll be bored."  He kept passing, but his grades kept getting lower and lower.  He failed 3 of 5 classes in 7th grade, but the school used his CRCT passing, as the reason for sending him on to 8th grade.  He failed every class, all year long, failed the CRCT, and suddenly the school says, the CRCT is meaningless, and he's ready for 9th grade.  It took almost an act of God to get the school to retain him for the 8th grade.
 
2013-05-27 12:12:55 PM
Yeah I thought twice about enrolling my 8 year old in kindergarten, but that homeschool BS was driving me nuts.

But look at him NOW! He's been Highschool varsity six years in a row!
 
2013-05-27 12:14:13 PM

simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.


My daughter's kindergarten class is populated with red-shirted kids.  I'll even go as far as to say that the MAJORITY of students in her class were red-shirted.  She's she second youngest child in her class, having turned 5 at the end of last summer.  During this academic year, a couple kids even turned 7 years old.  Most of the kids turned 6 during the school year.

7 year olds should not be in kindergarten with 5 year olds.

These red-shirted kids are developmentally delayed or anything.  They come from well-heeled families who want their kids to have every possible advantage.
 
2013-05-27 12:14:31 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Orgasmatron138: ukexpat: sno man: I've seen that show, it never ends well for the guy in the red shirt.

That was my first thought - the "security guy" in the red shirt never made it back to the Enterprise.

My wife and I rented the first Star Trek reboot last week to refresh our memories before seeing Into Darkness.  I laughed when I noticed the third guy that went to disable the big drilling machine with Kirk and Sulu had a red shirt on.

Frowns on your ignorance.
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 500x326]


Uh, The Next Generation was not a reboot.
 
2013-05-27 12:16:23 PM

thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.


Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.
 
2013-05-27 12:28:30 PM

wild9: Shazam999: There's a kid in my kid's kindergarten class that just turned eight.

WTF? My son turns eight in June and is going into the third grade this year.


Yeah it's weird.  She's not very big though.  I think she's a refugee but she speaks perfect english.  Of course young kids pick up new languages in about three seconds.
 
2013-05-27 12:29:32 PM

Marlys: Where I live the cut off is December 31. My youngest is in kindergarten this year, his birthday is at the end of December. The pressure from friends and family to hold him back was huge. In the end we decided to send him because he could sit criss cross applesauce, sing, and colour just fine. He knows his abc's and 123's which is all that is required of him in kindergarten. We also were eager to end the $1000/month daycare fee. He's pretty popular with the little boy crowd as well. I think it's partly because he has an older brother and knows a lot of choice swear words. He is pretty small for his age, and is literally the smallest kid in the whole school. That part does worry me.

I have a kid with an early January birthday as well, so I should have some anecdotal evidence in 10 years. He was ready for kindergarten the year before he was able to go, and waiting was pretty hard for him, he was pretty bored. Obviously that experience factored into our decision with the younger son.


I was in the same situation - birthday at the end of January, so the public schools wanted to hold me back by a year in Kindergarten. My folks raised hell since I was already reading, and ended up putting me in a private school for three years and then moving me back to public school, since they wouldn't hold back a third grader on the same justification.

I did have difficulty getting along with my classmates, but I don't know if age was an issue, as opposed to being the "new" kid. Cliques are already well established by third grade.
 
2013-05-27 12:32:44 PM
Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.
 
2013-05-27 12:34:16 PM

Igor Jakovsky: It was pretty cool until I got to college and couldn't go into the clubs with my friends because they were 18 and up.


Yeah I was going to add something about that... but I don't drink so it wasn't a huge problem for me.
 
2013-05-27 12:36:59 PM
We need more big dumb kids.

For employment in the armed forces...

mgoblog.com
 
2013-05-27 12:41:33 PM
I have a late November b-day and started K-garten at 4.

age didn't matter in high school cause Dad got transferred to London and  got served in the pubs as a 15 year old.

Yea for me!
 
2013-05-27 12:42:15 PM

uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.


We've turned education into competition. This isn't about "helicopter" parents, it's about "living vicariously through their kids" parents and "beating up the Joneses" parents. "I want my kid to be bigger and stronger than anyone there, and farther along developmentally, so it looks, at least for now, like my kid's superior."

Later, when your kid is two years older than everyone else, dumb as a stump because the intangibles he should've learned earlier weren't taught to him at the right time, developmentally speaking, and hostile as hell because he just can't socialize in any position other than that of domination, you can whine about how the school system failed you.
 
2013-05-27 12:44:44 PM
It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.
 
2013-05-27 12:46:15 PM
I teach third grade. Most of my students were born in 2004. I have one who was retained in kindergarten so he was born in 2003. This wasn't a red-shirting situation, this was a the parents would have loved for him to be promoted to first grade, but the kindergarten teacher and principal determined that he wasn't ready both academically and socially. I thought all year I was going to have to send him to summer school for math, but suddenly in the third trimester this year,he pulled it together and started getting 90s on his tests.

I also have two students who were born in 2005 and one born in 2004, but on December 31st. Their parents wanted them pushed ahead in pre-k. In pre-k you could see what a disaster that was. While they were all very bright, they were socially unprepared for the school setting. Now in third grade, you probably wouldn't point them out as the youngest in my class.

I guess I'm just saying that it doesn't matter if kids are red-shirted or pushed ahead, the decision will eventually be meaningless. The kids will catch up.

Retention, as I mentioned in my first example; however, is a different ball game.
 
2013-05-27 12:50:13 PM

uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.


I think it's more of a case of them being able to afford an additional year of child care.
 
2013-05-27 01:03:41 PM

Mugato: StoPPeRmobile: TNG was a sequel, not a reboot.


If that helps you sleep at night.

LOL, where did that come from? TNG takes place 80 years after the original series and involves different characters. Use your words.


I was just being a troublemaker.
 
2013-05-27 01:09:15 PM

Jeteupthemiddle: uknowzit: Interesting that the main culprits are affluent, white couples.
May say something about their parenting skills if the kid is emotionally unable to go to school with his peers.

I think it's more of a case of them being able to afford an additional year of child care.


...or being able to afford an additional year of one parent staying home.
 
2013-05-27 01:19:38 PM

uknowzit: It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.


I'm not sure its so unrealistic.  I recall being far more cognizant of peer pressure in school than I am now as an adult.  Now I realize that I have no peers.
 
2013-05-27 01:24:03 PM
Whatever. We did it with my oldest because he had chronic ear infections that impaired his speech for a little while. We took the extra year to work on his ability to communicate.

He was kind of a spaz, so it didn't give him any sort of edge in the athletic department. Taekwondo helped with that.
 
2013-05-27 01:33:46 PM
No one else noticed the size of her arms?

She's probably holding him back to eat him.
 
2013-05-27 01:33:53 PM
I wish my parents had done this, then I would not have failed first grade.
 
2013-05-27 01:55:05 PM
As a PreK teacher I used to have conversations with parents where I told them their child was not ready for Kindergarten and it is definitely better to keep them out a year then have them end up repeating a grade later. Now I have conversations where I tell them YES! Your child, who you already kept in PreK for 2 years is READY for Kinder, and keeping them out another year s not the right thing to do.

A new one I heard this year was the high school quarterback being redshirted at the end of 6th grade. He had a summer birthday so at the end of 6th grade they took him out of the school district and had him repeat 6th grade at a private school and then start 7th grade back in the school district a year. I guess it all worked out well since they won the championship //sarcasm
 
2013-05-27 02:07:00 PM

Earguy: simplicimus: Parents have been doing this for decades. If you know your child is not ready for Kindergarten, don't enroll them.

Yeah.  My neighbors did this with their two sons 40 years ago.

Doing it for sports is asshattery, but for emotional/social/educational reasons, I think it's valid.


We never did it for sports, but for maturity reasons.   He wasn't ready - in fact, his Kindergarten teacher was the one, who a year later, said, "Good call, (son) needs his playtime He needs this year."  We have zero regrets 19 years later.  High School and College worked out great for him.
 
2013-05-27 02:08:57 PM
Yeah, I love these kids.  They are turds, so their parents don't let them start kindergarten til they are 6 and they turn 7 before the end of the year.  So my kid, who is extremely smart, starts kindergarten at 4 and has to deal with Gigantor who is dumb, and a turd, is 12 inches taller and has 30 pounds on my kid.  When my kid started 2nd grade there was one kid going into kindergarten older than him.

If EVERYONE red shirted, there would be no more perceived advantage, which is why society decided, "kids start school at 5."  Reshirting parents are cowards and raise turds.
 
2013-05-27 02:22:06 PM
Only an idiot starts their child in school for kindergarten.

Pre-school should be mandatory.
 
2013-05-27 02:25:38 PM

Brave: As a PreK teacher I used to have conversations with parents where I told them their child was not ready for Kindergarten and it is definitely better to keep them out a year then have them end up repeating a grade later. Now I have conversations where I tell them YES! Your child, who you already kept in PreK for 2 years is READY for Kinder, and keeping them out another year s not the right thing to do.

A new one I heard this year was the high school quarterback being redshirted at the end of 6th grade. He had a summer birthday so at the end of 6th grade they took him out of the school district and had him repeat 6th grade at a private school and then start 7th grade back in the school district a year. I guess it all worked out well since they won the championship //sarcasm


As a pre-K teacher, what's your opinion on red shirting kids who are genetically prone or have ADD and other learning disabilities?

I read outliers and how the kids that are the youngest in the class are more likely to be diagnosed with LDs.

Would an extra year help?
 
2013-05-27 02:38:43 PM
More alarmist garbage about a non-existent problem.

This has been going on since before I was born..

I'm doing it to my kid.. his birthday is in late August and he's not ready for kindergarden. My business, not yours, ABC.
 
2013-05-27 02:42:34 PM
"Son, it's bigger because you're 18."
 
2013-05-27 02:52:15 PM

Benjimin_Dover: thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.

Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.


No, he created a position to argue with that does not exist. This topic has fark all to do with state standards in education, no matter how much he wants it to be about that.
 
2013-05-27 02:53:40 PM

Ebbelwoi: This has always been around.  Either your kid graduates at 17 or 18.  If it's 16 or 19 you're doing it wrong.


Because when they get to 37, it's really, really going to matter.
 
2013-05-27 02:56:50 PM

thurstonxhowell: Let's say their was no standard curriculum. ... , teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.


If there was no standard curriculum, you wouldn't be trying to teach the 4 1/2 year old and the 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 03:01:49 PM

uknowzit: It's funny how every parent thinks their snowflake is unique and they got to school and peer pressure molds them into clones of each other.   Its generally later in life that people actually figure out who they are.


Yes, because peer pressure at school stopped them finding out earlier.
 
2013-05-27 03:05:01 PM

Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom


personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.
 
2013-05-27 03:21:38 PM

orbister: thurstonxhowell: Let's say their was no standard curriculum. ... , teaching a 4 1/2 year old and a 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time will be trouble.

If there was no standard curriculum, you wouldn't be trying to teach the 4 1/2 year old and the 6 1/2 year old the same thing at the same time.


Yes, you would. They wound up in the same grade and we have a finite number of teachers. Within one classroom, every student learns the same thing at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 03:26:56 PM

links136: Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom

personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.


What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.

I'll answer my own question. The alternative is for parents to supplement school education as they see fit. If the kid's falling behind, help them where they are struggling. If they are way ahead. nurture that. Tell them that they still have to do well at school, but stimulate their intellect as best you can when they are outside the classroom. During the time they are at school, understand that they are in a room full of people who are not them, and that the resources to treat each child differently do not exist.

Ideally, each student would have a teacher of their own. That's not realistic, so deal with it.
 
2013-05-27 04:05:38 PM

Civchic: I just think it's funny that the bulk of Fark commenters picked the Star Trek red shirt reference, and not the college sports "red-shirted" reference.


Consider the audience. Didn't surprise me at all.  :)
 
2013-05-27 04:20:00 PM
I was one of those big little kids and having older siblings I was also reading and writing when I went into Kindergarten. I was a normal student in the end.

Just let the kids be kids again
 
2013-05-27 04:52:51 PM
My parents did this with me in the 80's, before it was cool, and I have never forgiven them.  Based on testing, I was supposed to start when I was4 and a half, but they kept me back until I was almost 6.

Constantly being made fun of by the other kids for being freakishly tall, and knowing all the answers to everything.  Being slightly older than everyone else in my grade, which in turn means that I finished college slightly older than everyone else.  Which means that because of my parents I wasted even more of my life in school than anyone else I knew.  They stole almost a year of my life, and their precious plan backfired.

Little kids pick on anyone who's different, including if the difference is that they're taller and smarter.  By the time puberty hits it all evens out, so that kid is just plain older, which isn't any better.
 
2013-05-27 05:22:52 PM

Ebbelwoi: This has always been around.  Either your kid graduates at 17 or 18.  If it's 16 or 19 you're doing it wrong.


Or the kids had credit issues. I graduated at nineteen because, while my homeschooling was great, it just didn't have credits, so I had to re-take a lot of lower-level classes. It's not the end of the world if your kid graduates early or late.
 
2013-05-27 07:00:07 PM
My kid's got autism, speech and behavior problems.  That said, he's ALREADY bigger than the kids he'd normally be in class with and if he keeps up (wife and I aren't monsters, but we're not short) he'll be huge through school.  He's sort of a spaz though, so that's not helping him.

Whatever.  I'd never keep him back just for sports in any event.  A bored kid is trouble.
 
2013-05-27 08:41:07 PM

thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: thurstonxhowell: Benjimin_Dover: He said state standard curricula not standard curricula. The two choices are not the United Nations's Common Core Curricula OR none (or whatever Cletus is to you) Most people I know want the parents in the district to decide what the curricula is for their schools through an elected locally representative controlling body, not some faceless nameless numbskull in some far away capital that has never set one foot in a classroom teaching anybody anything or an individual teacher.

Good for you. Then insert whatever curriculum you want in place of Cletus Q farkstick's in my original post and realize that what you're saying has nothing to do with my point.

Whatever your point was it doesn't matter as it isn't relevant to the item at hand, it was in response to "standard curricula" when the original poster was complaining about "state standard curricula." Essentially, you created a position to argue against that did not exist.

No, he created a position to argue with that does not exist. This topic has fark all to do with state standards in education, no matter how much he wants it to be about that.


Well, then count me in the crowd that would have no idea why you would change his position to something else and then argue against that position if it isn't what the topic of the discussion is about anyways. If you actually believed that, then it may have been a better decision to just scroll passed his post as a worthless post unworthy of a response by you.
 
2013-05-27 08:44:06 PM

thurstonxhowell: links136: Andromeda: JerseyTim: This isn't new.

Nope.  A friend's little brother did this years ago- he's going to Yale in the fall so I guess anecdotally it must have been a good decision!

/ I know it doesn't work that way
// really think he was redshirted for a slight academic advantage rather than emotional maturity reasons knowing his mom

personally, I think forcing kids to learn at a set pace is one of the worst qualities of education today.  We all have different learning curves, so is there really a point to saying "your stupid if you can't learn something by a set time" when your farking 7.

What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.

I'll answer my own question. The alternative is for parents to supplement school education as they see fit. If the kid's falling behind, help them where they are struggling. If they are way ahead. nurture that. Tell them that they still have to do well at school, but stimulate their intellect as best you can when they are outside the classroom. During the time they are at school, understand that they are in a room full of people who are not them, and that the resources to treat each child differently do not exist.

Ideally, each student would have a teacher of their own. That's not realistic, so deal with it.


I agree with you that parents should be actively involved in the education of their kids.
 
2013-05-27 10:05:58 PM

thurstonxhowell: Within one classroom, every student learns the same thing at the same time.


Erm, no. In my part of rural Scotland we have a large number of village primary (elementary) schools in which children from 5 to 12 are taught in one or two classes. They do not all learn the same thing at the same time.

Even when classes contain single year groups, different children can be and often are working on different things at the same time.
 
2013-05-27 10:11:56 PM

thurstonxhowell: What's the alternative? A teacher in charge of educating 30 kids can't teach 30 different lesson plans.


It actually makes things simpler for teachers to have a class of thirty children of different ages but similar levels of attainment rather than a class of thirty children of similar ages and wildly varying levels of attainment.

Grouping children by age is simply a matter of administrative convenience.
 
2013-05-27 10:39:21 PM

Anthracite: My soon to be 6 yr old starts Kindergarten this fall. I was informed at his IEP meeting that they have a new goal of being able to read, spell and write 40 words. They addred the write part this year and the kindergarten teacher is not amused with this. They are also supposed to be able to write a 3 sentence paragraph and write a picture to go along with it. Looks like ill have another kid to homeschool after next year. Sotime the do better when its slowed up and given more time. But my little guy can't even write his name very well right now. Took them 6 months to get him to make an X properly. Yet this is what hew is supposed to  do in the next 9 months after he returns from school. riiiiight.


I'm thinking home schooling might not be the way to go.
 
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