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(ABC)   Not to be outdone by boys, the Girl Scouts are holding their own ideological civil war over whether to sell money-losing camps or keep them for future generations to spurn and alumni to reminisce over   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 52
    More: Interesting, Diane Nelson, protest song, summer break, campgrounds  
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2739 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 May 2013 at 8:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 08:26:39 AM
With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.
 
2013-05-27 08:35:57 AM
Maybe they need anustart.

/why yes, I am going to keep saying this, it tickles my funny boner.
 
2013-05-27 08:40:49 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.


The existence of the Internet is a good reason to keep the Scouts and outdoor campgrounds.
 
2013-05-27 08:41:45 AM
Indoor campgrounds are superfluous, of course.
 
2013-05-27 08:46:32 AM
It was my understanding that the Girl Scouts had already spurned all outdoor activities and had become simply a massive cookie related logistics and sales organization.
 
2013-05-27 08:48:34 AM

Spade: It was my understanding that the Girl Scouts had already spurned all outdoor activities and had become simply a massive cookie related logistics and sales organization.


That's because they shun you except when they want your money.

/and you don't camp in the right places
 
2013-05-27 08:51:18 AM
Retain camps for alumnae to yearn over, yah right. What BarkingUnicorn  recerntly typed just above -- wish I could type without so many tyops too.
 
2013-05-27 08:54:47 AM

BarkingUnicorn: AverageAmericanGuy: With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.

The existence of the Internet is a good reason to keep the Scouts and outdoor campgrounds.


THIS
 
2013-05-27 08:57:44 AM
Not everything should be profit seeking. Child development and socialization is a noble pursuit even if it doesn't make the girl scouts any money.
 
2013-05-27 09:00:02 AM
Besides, All the cool girls are at Band Camp...
 
2013-05-27 09:03:45 AM

Carth: Not everything should be profit seeking. Child development and socialization is a noble pursuit even if it doesn't make the girl scouts any money.


Unfortunately, the campgrounds are LOSING hundreds of thousands per year in just this one region.  How much do you want to pay for Thin Mints?
 
2013-05-27 09:07:03 AM
As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.
 
2013-05-27 09:09:50 AM
The camps (for both boy scouts and girl scouts) were never intended to make money. Scout camps always had little or no cost charged to the participants so that all kids' and families could benefit without concern for cost. This is especially important for inner city families.That's why fund raising is separate. Now take my money and give me the thin mints.
 
2013-05-27 09:11:58 AM
Girl Scout camp was cool.  Lots of city girls with no other feasible opportunity to experience camping were able to get chiggers, burn marshmallows, and freak out at the sight of fruit bats.

/Butternut Springs, among the icky Hoosiers
 
2013-05-27 09:12:07 AM
I didn't realize that women wore onions on their belts, too.
 
2013-05-27 09:13:54 AM

The Book Was Better: As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.


Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up?  Seems cruel.
 
2013-05-27 09:15:48 AM

Spade: It was my understanding that the Girl Scouts had already spurned all outdoor activities and had become simply a massive cookie related logistics and sales organization.


The woman next to me at work as a daughter in Girl Scouts.  I didn't have a daughter but a son who was in Boy Scouts.  The Girl Scout's cookie policy is brutal compared to the boy scouts popcorn and Christmas wreath policy.  It sounds like the regional office decides a troop is going to sell X number of boxes of cookies and ships them to the troop.  There is no return process so if the cookies aren't sold then the parents are stuck with a lot of cookies.
 
2013-05-27 09:16:24 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.


Right, why leave the house? You might bump into "others."
 
2013-05-27 09:17:09 AM
i laugh at the thought of girl scouts going "camping".  Maybe just turn off the electricity and running water, see if that saves you enough money to keep them open--if you still maintain attendance, that is.
 
2013-05-27 09:17:11 AM

FrancoFile: I didn't realize that women wore onions on their belts, too.


Sometimes you can hear them yelling at clouds.
 
2013-05-27 09:18:24 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up? Seems cruel.


If you expose the girls to the joys of sailing they'll be more willing later in life to put out for and marry a man who can afford a nice boat.
 
2013-05-27 09:19:08 AM

Spade: It was my understanding that the Girl Scouts had already spurned all outdoor activities and had become simply a massive cookie related logistics and sales organization.


Not really, but I frequently felt Boy Scouts were just to sell  Boy Scout crud.
 
2013-05-27 09:21:21 AM

BarkingUnicorn: The Book Was Better: As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.

Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up?  Seems cruel.


Because it gives you something to aspire to and work towards.  Done right, there's a higher chance that a girl won't shy away from something she's never done before, and is more likely to try new things.

My words aren't working well right now because it's freakin' 9am on a holiday, but there's a HUGE difference between the attitudes of "I've never done that before" and "I've never done that before, betcha I can learn it".  Exposing kids to the latter idea makes them better at life.
 
2013-05-27 09:27:58 AM
Our local GS camp was sold a few years back.  There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but it got sold to the state, and now the state maintains it and the GS can still have camp in the area, but actually cheaper, now that they aren't trying to foot the bill for maintaining the campsite.

gerrychampoux: The camps (for both boy scouts and girl scouts) were never intended to make money. Scout camps always had little or no cost charged to the participants so that all kids' and families could benefit without concern for cost. This is especially important for inner city families.That's why fund raising is separate. Now take my money and give me the thin mints.


Eh, the GS summer camps around where I am are still relatively inexpensive, but the BSA summer camps are *not* cheap.  Not backbreakingly expensive, but we do have to budget to afford them for our boys.  But they are so worth it.
 
2013-05-27 09:30:52 AM
I didn't realize that women wore onions on their belts, too.

It isn't any wonder, they carry them in their purses.
Ever seen all the stuff they can carry in there?
 
2013-05-27 09:41:09 AM
I don't hear the alumni stepping up to pool their donations into a trust to buy these sites.
 
2013-05-27 09:45:33 AM
I'm a leader with a couple of girl scount troops as well as being the outdoor certified adult.   The main purpose of the camping experience is to teach the girls confidence through self reliance.    As the certified adult accompanying the girls camping, my duties are to treat wounds and treat the sick.  The girls are responsible for everything else.

While the girl scout camps give the girls a relatively safe environment to have the camp experience (in my area the locations of the girl scout camps are unpublished), but there is nothing that prevents the girls from having the camping experience somewhere else, such  as in a state park.    If selling the camps help the council remain a going concern, then folks need to remain open to those options.    Additionally, they may consider sharing resources with the boy scouts.
 
2013-05-27 09:54:11 AM
The BSA is able to suck the fun out of any activity. While at the same time feeling like the gayest of all father-son stuff.
Seriously. Take your kid fishing and skip the 40 hrs of classroom time earning your "Fishing Chip", which earns you the right to wield a pole.
And Dad, you can't take a kid fishing till you complete the weeklong fishing training program. Become fishing certified.
Scouting sucked.
 
2013-05-27 09:54:17 AM

The Book Was Better: As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.


Which race track is this? And what's wrong with taking girls scouts to a car race?
 
2013-05-27 09:54:35 AM
My boy scout troop didn't do any of those wacky fundraisers.  We had a hot dog stand / trailer that we ran at an annual holiday parade.  Easily made enough money in 2 days to fund the troop for the whole year.
 
2013-05-27 09:56:15 AM

Muta: BarkingUnicorn: Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up? Seems cruel.

If you expose the girls to the joys of sailing they'll be more willing later in life to put out for and marry a man who can afford a nice boat.


We call that "FIGAWI Weekend" around here.
 
2013-05-27 10:07:21 AM
My sister works for this council, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2013-05-27 10:09:40 AM
Every summer it's the same story.  Drop my kid off at camp, which she insists she doesn't want to go to.  Come back a week later to pick her up and she doesn't want to leave.
 
2013-05-27 10:11:29 AM
Once rich fold buy em and build 10,000 square foot cottage ya can't go back
 
2013-05-27 10:11:38 AM

minoridiot: I'm a leader with a couple of girl scount troops as well as being the outdoor certified adult.   The main purpose of the camping experience is to teach the girls confidence through self reliance.    As the certified adult accompanying the girls camping, my duties are to treat wounds and treat the sick.  The girls are responsible for everything else.

While the girl scout camps give the girls a relatively safe environment to have the camp experience (in my area the locations of the girl scout camps are unpublished), but there is nothing that prevents the girls from having the camping experience somewhere else, such  as in a state park.    If selling the camps help the council remain a going concern, then folks need to remain open to those options.    Additionally, they may consider sharing resources with the boy scouts.


Okay, this is a good argument. Perhaps most of the camps, if sold, could be sold as a camp then (and not as a Walmart overflow parking lot) and used by many.

As an environmentalist it worries me that so many people won't even know there's an environment out there. Always encourage people with kids to take them to your favorite outdoor hangout and hike or swim.
 
2013-05-27 10:11:52 AM

soze: BarkingUnicorn: The Book Was Better: As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.

Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up?  Seems cruel.

Because it gives you something to aspire to and work towards.  Done right, there's a higher chance that a girl won't shy away from something she's never done before, and is more likely to try new things.

My words aren't working well right now because it's freakin' 9am on a holiday, but there's a HUGE difference between the attitudes of "I've never done that before" and "I've never done that before, betcha I can learn it".  Exposing kids to the latter idea makes them better at life.


Well as I said one is a licensed ship's captain, one is studying marine engineering, one is a marine biology major, and mine has her sights set on the Merchant Marine Academy. It opens up lots of possibilities besides just "putting out" to a rich guy who might take them sailing.
 
2013-05-27 10:16:09 AM
Except that the Girl Scouts accept LGBTQasdjkgls individuals.

(and hate men)
 
2013-05-27 10:18:13 AM
In another note i grew up on a church camp (atheist now), my dad maintained it, worked for the church for 20+ years at 12K with no raise.  The Bishop decided it was too expensive to maintain for thousands of kids to attend each year.  Do you think his crib is modest?  Guess what luxury brand of vehicle the sheep buy him ERRRY TU YEAR?


/more like jesus
 
2013-05-27 10:24:35 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.


Or maybe give them the choice whether to join or not? The Girl Guides in the UK are booming, with waiting lists in many places and an urgent need for more leaders. That's not at all what was predicted when the Scouts (also doing very well) went mixed.
 
2013-05-27 10:39:14 AM

BarkingUnicorn: AverageAmericanGuy: With the internet readily available just about anywhere, the socialization of young women doesn't seem to require some homogenous club anymore. Maybe it's about time to retire this old-fashioned and outdated social club.

The existence of the Internet is a good reason to keep the Scouts and outdoor campgrounds.


The whole point of Scouting was to instill discipline and camaraderie into young men (and much later, women) to make them better suited for military service.  Once the focus moved away from camping and other such team-building and self-reliance teaching endeavors, they've lost their relevance.  Which is why these organizations are on the decline.
 
2013-05-27 10:42:22 AM

Betep: Muta: BarkingUnicorn: Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up? Seems cruel.

If you expose the girls to the joys of sailing they'll be more willing later in life to put out for and marry a man who can afford a nice boat.

We call that "FIGAWI Weekend" around here.


A quick GIS'ing of FIGAWI shows the girls get trained well.


nubry.com
 
2013-05-27 10:48:24 AM

TanSau: Except that the Girl Scouts accept LGBTQasdjkgls individuals.

(and hate men)


Well yeah there's a bit of that. It's been pretty much don't ask don't tell.
 
2013-05-27 11:33:17 AM

soze: BarkingUnicorn: The Book Was Better: As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and sell the one next to the race track. You can't hear anything over the sound of the engines. But they better not touch the sailing camp. How else would girls with no access to a yacht club learn the joy of sailing ? One of our girls is now working her way through college as a commercial ship's captain.

Why give the girls access to sailing if they're not going to be able to afford it when they grow up?  Seems cruel.

Because it gives you something to aspire to and work towards.  Done right, there's a higher chance that a girl won't shy away from something she's never done before, and is more likely to try new things.

My words aren't working well right now because it's freakin' 9am on a holiday, but there's a HUGE difference between the attitudes of "I've never done that before" and "I've never done that before, betcha I can learn it".  Exposing kids to the latter idea makes them better at life.


Your sarcasm meter isn't working too well, either. :-)  I heartily approve of scouting for both all sexes gender identifications.
 
2013-05-27 11:39:00 AM
I blame Minister Farrakhan
 
2013-05-27 12:08:57 PM
The basic problem is that the administration of the local Girl Scout councils has expanded massively, and as a result, the councils are always short of money.  They do pretty much nothing for the troops themselves, except push the cookie sales.  Out local council has a massive building on prime commercial real estate, and the only part the troops ever use is an under-stocked GS store.  Once the camps are gone, they are gone forever - but the current crop of administrators would prefer to see the girl scouts turn into some half-assed Junior Achievement program pushing cookies and magazines.
 
2013-05-27 12:09:50 PM
I had no idea "alumni" was a verb.
 
2013-05-27 12:15:42 PM

ZeroCorpse: I had no idea "alumni" was a verb.


Wait, is that proper grammar or not?  Was my mom wrong all these years when she said "that's for me to know and you to find out"?
 
2013-05-27 12:45:54 PM
Up until recently, I was a member of a mainline Christian denomination that has camps around the country.  At least one regional body has for the past decade debated selling the camps in their area.  The arguments for/against selling are the same as those voiced in the article.  Those for selling appeal to logic and see the writing on the wall that the attendance and resources do not and cannot support maintaining the camps.  Those against selling appeal to emotion and that "My parents/grandparents/great-grandparents donated the money for that cabin so how dare you consider selling it.  Furthermore, 50 years ago I had a life-changing experience at church camp and therefore every child must have access to the exact same experience as me, otherwise their life will not be transformed as mine was."
 
2013-05-27 12:57:27 PM

kp1230: Those against selling appeal to emotion and that "My parents/grandparents/great-grandparents donated the money for that cabin so how dare you consider selling it


Funny how the argument isn't "I donated the money for that cabin".  Seems like maybe you wouldn't be having this discussion if that were the case.
 
2013-05-27 01:06:57 PM

serial_crusher: kp1230: Those against selling appeal to emotion and that "My parents/grandparents/great-grandparents donated the money for that cabin so how dare you consider selling it

Funny how the argument isn't "I donated the money for that cabin".  Seems like maybe you wouldn't be having this discussion if that were the case.


It's like parents and students protesting the closing of "their" neighborhood school.  Making customers "stakeholders" is a two-edged sword.
 
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