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(Forbes)   Nobel-winning economist who helped create Reaganomics and spent his life advocating free trade adds "but not to the point of destroying your domestic manufacturing capacity." Oops   (forbes.com) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, Nobel, Reaganomics, Mundell, United States, capability management, current account deficit, trade policies, practical effects  
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1768 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 May 2013 at 10:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 09:54:08 AM  
well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.
 
2013-05-27 10:48:15 AM  
Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?
 
2013-05-27 10:49:04 AM  

bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.


Eeeeh, not really. They love pointing at the Nobel prizes their side has won. They love pointing out the actors that agree with them, just as they love extolling the prettiness of the women who espouse their views and the ratings of the channel that fellates their perspective.

It's basically plumage fluffing. They want the superficial appearances of excellence.
 
2013-05-27 10:50:16 AM  

bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.


Wow. I've seen unrelated, biased, devoid of any facts posts before. Just not to this level. Congrats!
 
2013-05-27 10:53:34 AM  
Heh.

"We should encourage domestic production by requiring buy American in procurement for government products."

Combine that with Republican's "let's eliminate all government spending" and that should work out well.
 
2013-05-27 10:53:40 AM  

MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?


Not true since 2010. China is now top.
 
2013-05-27 10:54:05 AM  
FTFA "America may have to resort to less overt protectionist measures. One such tactic would be to adopt Buy American policies in government procurement (such covert protectionism is virtually universal elsewhere among America's most significant trade partners)."

OK. Who wants the dubious honor of telling the author that we've had that for almost a century? The author probably didn't notice cause its got the incredibly devious name "The Buy American Act."
 
2013-05-27 10:55:36 AM  
Stupid article.

Long before implementing "Buy America" policies, we could just have fair trade with tariffs targeting companies and countries with unfair environmental and labor practices.

And Boeing's problem stemmed from stupid MBAs not wanting to invest in Boeing or her employees by learning how to manufacture composite structures or write the software. That would have happened AND DID just as easily with onshore outsourcing as well as offshore outsourcing. Oh, sure, Boeing's future is being a systems integrator they claimed, ignoring economic lessons and predictions their own engineers were telling them.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110 21 5
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/69746-hart-smith-on-outsourc in g.html
 
2013-05-27 10:56:28 AM  

bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.


Barack 0bama, indisputably the worst President in the 6000 year history of the universe, has a Nobel prize.

Jimmy Carter, history's greatest monster, has a Nobel prize.

Yasser Arafat, Earth-911's pre-Crisis version of Osama bin Laden, has a Nobel prize.

Paul Krugman, who is more Marxist than Marx, Lenin, and Stalin combined, has a Nobel prize, which isn't even a real Nobel prize.

Ronald Reagan does not have a Nobel prize.

George W Bush does not have a Nobel prize.

Arthur Laffer does not have a Nobel prize.

Jesus does not have a Nobel prize.

Enough said.
 
2013-05-27 11:09:04 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-27 11:09:39 AM  

MyRandomName: bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.

Wow. I've seen unrelated, biased, devoid of any facts posts before. Just not to this level. Congrats!


You haven't been in evolution threads before have you?
 
2013-05-27 11:18:09 AM  
Maybe that line got cut off when they photocopied the report back in the 80's.
 
2013-05-27 11:19:13 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?

Not true since 2010. China is now top.


To be fair, three years ago is probably the last time he was outside his basement.
 
2013-05-27 12:13:39 PM  

Gergesa: MyRandomName: bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.

Wow. I've seen unrelated, biased, devoid of any facts posts before. Just not to this level. Congrats!

You haven't been in evolution threads before have you?


No - he's just a dipshiat.
 
2013-05-27 12:41:33 PM  
Capitalism isn't a system to harness human nature for the most good possible.

It's a system to efficiently move capital to the a very few at the top, so they can trickle down prosperity like the powerful gods they are.

(Most people who herp-derp "Capitalism" haven't even read The Theory of Moral Sentiments or The Wealth of Nations.
 
2013-05-27 01:48:58 PM  
It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.
 
2013-05-27 01:56:24 PM  

gimmegimme: It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.


Just wait. Once it gets going, we'll get bogged down in trivial side arguments, blame games, discussions of half-understood financial and economic concepts, and out-and-out trolling. All of which will be pointless, because it will do nothing to shed more light on the subject. So, yeah, no one wants to start the ball rolling when we could be outside, grilling substandard flesh and worshipping our warlike ancestors as is our civic duty.
 
2013-05-27 02:17:36 PM  

MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?


Only because of its size. America manufactures lots but it imports more -- it hasn't had a trade surplus since 1975 and that is an odd statistic for a country as resource rich as this one.
 
2013-05-27 02:22:04 PM  
Here's what American needs to do:

1) Incentivize domestic manufacturing. Sure, it is cheaper to produce things overseas, but stuff is cheap anyway (and getting cheaper) through a myriad of other factors -- improved manufacturing processes, computers and automation, reduced marketing and advertising/business costs through media and technology, and also planned obsolescence (making it lighter, cheaper, and more disposable is the rule of modern economies, which I suppose is healthier, because consumption of the Next Big Thing is how we keep going).

The only thing that's not getting cheaper is transportation (fuel, shipping, etc), and this kind of works in our favor because it does mean imports will increase in value as we hit peak oil, and foreign labor will not be cheap forever. I'm not a fan of tariffs, but I am a fan of favoring domestic enrichment over foreign conquest (commercial or military), and any policy that brings our businesses back home and gets our people back to work is a good policy.

Because here's the thing: These are American companies making American products for American target audiences to spend American money -- they're just being made overseas. The money still stays in America, it just goes from consumer directly to owner (with some negligent production costs being ferried to China), without the benefit of hitting any middlemen along the way. This is what's causing such an extreme inequitable distribution of affluence.

2) Huge penalties for any corporation with the letterhead in the United States and no manufacturing base here. For many companies, the only thing that exists here is the financial division. Yet the goods are sold here, the marketing and advertising is spent here, the target market is here, and the owners all live here. Yet everything else is overseas.

This even exists from state to state. There's a reason why a lot of the national banks -- and even the biggest firms on Wall Street -- all have their headquarters (really just a token joint or PO box) in the state of Delaware. Delaware has the most relaxed banking regulations of any state in the Union and they can get away with raping other states (and people) so long as they pretend they're a Delaware corp.

I read an interesting article awhile ago about an entrepreneur who had a patent for a new type of nickle-cadmium battery for cell phones, and he approached Wall Street for a loan to build his factory, and being a patriotic American he wanted to build it in Flint, Michigan of all places. Said he would hire and train people and get everything going. No bank would touch him, and the ones who were interested loved his business plan and had all the capital in the world for him..... but only if he put the factory in China.

You can probably blame Reagan for this behavior.

I'm no hater of globalization, but I like to think it's more than fair to insist that if a company wants to be in a certain state or bracket for the tax writeoff or profit incentive, that the company has to PHYSICALLY BE IN THAT LOCATION.
 
2013-05-27 02:38:37 PM  

Parthenogenetic: bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.

Barack 0bama, indisputably the worst President in the 6000 year history of the universe, has a Nobel prize.

Jimmy Carter, history's greatest monster, has a Nobel prize.

Yasser Arafat, Earth-911's pre-Crisis version of Osama bin Laden, has a Nobel prize.

Paul Krugman, who is more Marxist than Marx, Lenin, and Stalin combined, has a Nobel prize, which isn't even a real Nobel prize.

Ronald Reagan does not have a Nobel prize.

George W Bush does not have a Nobel prize.

Arthur Laffer does not have a Nobel prize.

Jesus does not have a Nobel prize.

Enough said.


Ah, but Teddy Roosevelt got a Nobel prize.
 
2013-05-27 02:55:47 PM  

gimmegimme: It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.


Yeah...the Republicans did it...

lh3.ggpht.com
 
2013-05-27 03:11:13 PM  

MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?


Really? Build a car or a desktop computer without importing one single part.
 
2013-05-27 03:18:21 PM  

sparkeyjames: MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?

Really? Build a car or a desktop computer without importing one single part.


I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not familiar with many supply chains.
 
2013-05-27 03:50:22 PM  
Apple has helped jump-start technological innovation. Unfortunately, it's happening in China since they moved virtually all their production to the sweatshops factories there.

/sure, there are still pockets of innovation here
//but you have to live in certain areas for future generations to be exposed to it
 
2013-05-27 04:00:28 PM  

Dracolich: sparkeyjames: MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?

Really? Build a car or a desktop computer without importing one single part.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're not familiar with many supply chains.


Well you just go ahead and guess. How many entire factories and jobs were exported to supply those industries with cheap labor?
Our ability to domestically manufacture many different types of things has been shipped out of the country.

Shoes: industry off shored.
Clothing: industry off shored.
Consumer Computers: industry off shored.
Mechanical parts for various items: off shored.
etc. etc.

Just about every manufacturing sector, except military hardware, has been damaged due to the exportation of labor.
All it will take to cripple certain sectors of the US economy is to have a major dispute with one of our top trading partners that results in
an import/export blockade. We have compromised long range security of the US by exporting large sections of our manufacturing capability.
 
2013-05-27 05:39:24 PM  

germ78: Apple has helped jump-start technological innovation. Unfortunately, it's happening in China since they moved virtually all their production to the sweatshops factories there.

/sure, there are still pockets of innovation here
//but you have to live in certain areas for future generations to be exposed to it


Apple didn't "jump start" shiat. Their strength is marketing existing technology.
 
2013-05-27 07:56:54 PM  
Might it had been a good idea if he had tempered his ideals by proclaiming this back in the 80's?

Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but it may have been good to add this little caveat back when it mattered.
 
2013-05-27 08:50:24 PM  
So we should force companies to pay higher wages for lesser quality.  Got it.
 
2013-05-27 08:58:55 PM  

LL316: So we should force companies to pay higher wages for lesser quality.  Got it.


Quit confusing quality issues with the manufacturing part. The quality issue begins and ends with
management decisions such as engineered product design and the engineering of the way a product is produced.
Next ask yourself the question of how Wall St. brings about poor quality by imposing an atmosphere of greed where
compromised design is signed off by management in publicly traded corporations. So instead of quality products you
get crap or near crap that breaks just after the warranty expires.
 
2013-05-27 09:23:53 PM  

LL316: So we should force companies to pay higher wages for lesser quality. Got it.


this isn't about paying the people in factories in China more
 
2013-05-27 09:45:15 PM  
I think a lot of the erosion in wages and manufacturing jobs is just due to poor ethics on the part of the owning class. Just as the barons in Europe figured out they had to provide for their surrounding community, and Ford figured out his workers should be able to afford to buy what they were building, we just need a little more of that type of thinking. Asian labor won't remain so cheap for very much longer, because they are starting to consume more and more of what they produce. and at that point the ones who started building up know-how in North America will be in a much better position that day.
 
2013-05-28 12:40:27 AM  

Parthenogenetic: bronyaur1: well, to be fair, modern Republicans reject anything that smacks of education, intelligence, scientific method, or reason. That's why they scoff at Nobel prizes.

Barack 0bama, indisputably the worst President in the 6000 year history of the universe, has a Nobel prize.

Jimmy Carter, history's greatest monster, has a Nobel prize.

Yasser Arafat, Earth-911's pre-Crisis version of Osama bin Laden, has a Nobel prize.

Paul Krugman, who is more Marxist than Marx, Lenin, and Stalin combined, has a Nobel prize, which isn't even a real Nobel prize.

Ronald Reagan does not have a Nobel prize.

George W Bush does not have a Nobel prize.

Arthur Laffer does not have a Nobel prize.

Jesus does not have a Nobel prize.

Enough said.


Henry Kissinger got one, Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson too. And that conniving Mother Teresa
 
2013-05-28 12:50:05 AM  

AngryDragon: gimmegimme: It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.

Yeah...the Republicans did it...

[lh3.ggpht.com image 525x294]

Yes, yes they did


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-28 01:26:17 AM  

MyRandomName: Last I checked America's manufacturing was at the top... false dichotomy subby?



The "top" of what???


Destruction by design FTW.

Politicians are useful for ONE THIING: Stretching rope.

You're gonna' starve anyway, UhMerikah.

At least you can shrivel into dust with dignity,

13 knots.
 
2013-05-28 01:12:30 PM  

Bung_Howdy: AngryDragon: gimmegimme: It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.

Yeah...the Republicans did it...

[lh3.ggpht.com image 525x294]

Yes, yes they did

[img.photobucket.com image 600x407]


WRONG

This Day in History, December 8:  The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to work toward a broader world-trade pact
 
2013-05-28 05:28:48 PM  

AngryDragon: Bung_Howdy: AngryDragon: gimmegimme: It's a little sad that this thread has only 15 (now 16) comments.  The topic is one of the primary reasons we're so Republi-screwed.

Yeah...the Republicans did it...

[lh3.ggpht.com image 525x294]

Yes, yes they did

[img.photobucket.com image 600x407]

WRONG

This Day in History, December 8:  The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to work toward a broader world-trade pact


BOTH RIGHT, BOTH WRONG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement#Ne go tiation_and_U.S._ratification

Bush 1 spearheaded and promoted it, ceremonially signed it, but the damn Canucks kept arguing amongst themselves about it and changing Prime Ministers, so Bush had to pass the official signing off to Clinton, who signed it  after putting in some slightly more protectionist wording.

Blame Canada.
 
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