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(New York Daily News)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been given the green light to present the "the victim was an angry black kid, so it's okay that I shot him" defense   (nydailynews.com) divider line 693
    More: Obvious, George Zimmerman, smoke rings, murder trial, Benjamin Crump, Cannabis smoking, Mark O'Mara  
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7133 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 04:31:11 PM  
He lost two fights in the same night. Pretty sure he took a dive because Mr. Wallace paid him off.
 
2013-05-26 04:43:06 PM  
Another George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin thread. These threads make my dick itch.
 
2013-05-26 04:50:27 PM  
I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.
 
2013-05-26 04:52:07 PM  

ongbok: Another George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin thread. These threads make my dick itch.


No. That's the STD you caught from my mom.

/Sorry, in a touchy mood with the Trayvon Martin killing, since it could have been me as a Florida teen.
 
2013-05-26 04:55:24 PM  

AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.


Anybody with a half of brain would do the same thing and would tell their kids to do the same. If they claim they wouldn't, they are full of shiat.
 
2013-05-26 04:55:51 PM  
"Angry black kid" is a bid redundant, no?
 
2013-05-26 05:09:47 PM  

AirForceVet: ongbok: Another George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin thread. These threads make my dick itch.

No. That's the STD you caught from my mom.

/Sorry, in a touchy mood with the Trayvon Martin killing, since it could have been me as a Florida teen.


DUDE!
I was gonna blame HIS mom, but you made me realize fat chicks all look alike.
 
2013-05-26 05:31:56 PM  
Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.
 
2013-05-26 05:34:21 PM  
DRINK!
 
2013-05-26 05:34:34 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.


Proving you are a racist.
 
2013-05-26 05:45:29 PM  

AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.


Was it this dude?
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-05-26 05:47:42 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.


Drink!
 
2013-05-26 05:48:15 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: "Angry black kid" is a bid redundant, no?


Youd be pissed off too if you were black
 
2013-05-26 05:49:32 PM  
Whoo hoo!  This thread is a Memorial Day Weekend miracle!
 
2013-05-26 05:50:14 PM  
Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...
 
2013-05-26 05:51:07 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
Trust everything the media tells you.
 
2013-05-26 05:51:10 PM  

AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.


They still could. And I suspect they still might, since they'll never be able to seat a jury.
 
2013-05-26 05:51:34 PM  
From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.
 
2013-05-26 05:51:57 PM  
Is he having a bench trial?
 
2013-05-26 05:52:55 PM  

ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.


You're funny.
 
2013-05-26 05:53:36 PM  
...and I will wait to see the absolute proof of that. And then why, if so, that proof justifies him being shot dead.
 
2013-05-26 05:53:49 PM  
You're going to look good in orange.
I guarantee it.
 
2013-05-26 05:54:14 PM  
If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.
 
2013-05-26 05:54:21 PM  

AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.


Why?  The state basically handed them a free acquittal by going for 2nd degree murder, for which there's plenty of reasonable doubt even without the victim having a history of getting into brawls, instead of manslaughter, which doesn't require much in the way of intent and on which the victim's participation in the fight has no bearing.

Why would you take a plea deal when the state seems actively determined to get your client off for you through sheer incompetence?
 
2013-05-26 05:54:41 PM  

ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.


Clearly.
 
2013-05-26 05:55:50 PM  

ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.


This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.
 
2013-05-26 05:55:51 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

You're funny.



Where's Martin's side?  Oh right.
 
2013-05-26 05:56:36 PM  

thisiszombocom: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: "Angry black kid" is a bid redundant, no?

Youd be pissed off too if you were black


The giant penis would be nice, though
 
2013-05-26 05:58:07 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.


Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

files.abovetopsecret.com

www.washingtonpost.com
 
2013-05-26 05:58:17 PM  

seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.



That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.
 
2013-05-26 05:59:27 PM  
Zimmerman walks. The only reason they aimed for so high.a charge was to try to get him to plea deal. The prosecution doesn't have enough evidence.
 
2013-05-26 05:59:37 PM  

Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.


Dude, why wouldn't you take Zimmerman's story at face value?
 
2013-05-26 06:01:43 PM  
So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?
 
2013-05-26 06:02:47 PM  
Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.
 
2013-05-26 06:03:28 PM  
We don't have Martin's side of the story, so whatever we make up is now indisputable evidence.
 
2013-05-26 06:03:42 PM  
My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.
 
2013-05-26 06:03:56 PM  

seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


You really need trolling lessons. Luckily, there are some masters around here that could probably take you under their wing.
 
2013-05-26 06:04:16 PM  

gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]


i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.
 
2013-05-26 06:04:37 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: He lost two fights in the same night. Pretty sure he took a dive because Mr. Wallace paid him off.


The pikey goes down in the fourth!
 
2013-05-26 06:04:42 PM  
Did anyone see this story on 20/20?  A dude in Texas had neighbors who were pretty far away who were having a party.  Dude strolls over armed and shot a bunch of unarmed people, all the while telling his video camera "I'm afraid fer ma life!"  The video of the incident, of course, is about as scary as a My Little Pony episode.

Sorry Georgie, you can't go around shooting people for no reason.
 
2013-05-26 06:06:58 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.


Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.
 
2013-05-26 06:07:02 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.


Did he have a criminal record for violence and assault?
 
2013-05-26 06:08:23 PM  
Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?
 
2013-05-26 06:08:49 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: You're going to look good in orange.
I guarantee it.


I am saddened to admit that yep, that's the first thing I hear whenever I hear the name George Zimmer...
 
2013-05-26 06:08:54 PM  
Not this thread again.
 
2013-05-26 06:09:00 PM  
"Look, the kid took pictures of stuff.  He clearly deserved to be killed."
 
2013-05-26 06:09:06 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: seadoo2006:
This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.

You really need trolling lessons. Luckily, there are some masters around here that could probably take you under their wing.


He has the poor grammar down. That's a decent effort, you have to admit. Sadly, I think he's a bit too short to be in the Troll Core.
 
2013-05-26 06:09:14 PM  

gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.


Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?
 
2013-05-26 06:09:24 PM  

A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?


Because "they" always get away.
 
2013-05-26 06:09:39 PM  

ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.


I find the highlighted part above the interesting bit.
 
2013-05-26 06:10:49 PM  

seadoo2006: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?


Zimmerman didn't own the home.  Your analogy is sillypants.

Besides, you would call 911 and do as you're told.
 
2013-05-26 06:11:09 PM  

Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.


His story is backed up by the evidence.
He lost sight of Martin while on the phone with dispatch.
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap, I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.
 
2013-05-26 06:12:21 PM  

Saturn5: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 554x322]
Trust everything the media tells you.


Actually, the Predator won't kill you if you're unarmed.
 
2013-05-26 06:12:54 PM  

gimmegimme: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

Because "they" always get away.


First rule of acting out of self defense:  If you can escape the situation, do so.

/zeroth rule is if you can avoid the situation...
 
2013-05-26 06:13:12 PM  

gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.


That's a perfect way to start a fight.
To bad that's not what happened in this case.
 
2013-05-26 06:13:55 PM  
The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.
 
2013-05-26 06:13:56 PM  

ChaosStar: Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.

His story is backed up by the evidence.
He lost sight of Martin while on the phone with dispatch.
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap, I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.


Was that before Zimmerman was told to fark off and go home?
 
2013-05-26 06:14:39 PM  

Abox: mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.

Did he have a criminal record for violence and assault?


Your mother doesn't have a criminal record for prostitution either.
 
2013-05-26 06:14:40 PM  

special20: My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.


My money is on Zimm eating a few more tacos before that.

i.imgur.com

(I have no idea why I felt the need to include VJack. It just sort of happened that way)
 
2013-05-26 06:14:57 PM  

tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.


Aggressive people don't often run away.
 
2013-05-26 06:15:39 PM  

MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...


No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...
 
2013-05-26 06:15:57 PM  

A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?


He might have, if he had been told to stay in his car. He wasn't though; he was asked by the dispatcher if he was following him (Martin), he said yes, the dispatcher told him that he didn't need to do that to which he replied ok and stopped.
 
2013-05-26 06:16:28 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...


Ted Nugent isn't black...
 
2013-05-26 06:17:18 PM  

gimmegimme: seadoo2006: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?

Zimmerman didn't own the home.  Your analogy is sillypants.

Besides, you would call 911 and do as you're told.


Uh, no, I've called 911 on several obvious drunk drivers and a couple hit-and-run people and followed them even against the 911 operator's advice ... why you may ask? For the same reason that people own guns, because by the time the police show up, that person is long gone.

Put it another way ... if you were sideswiped in traffic and the person took off ... would you call the police and wait for them to catch the hit and run, or would you keep your tabs on them until the police got there?  I mean, that's what insurance is for, so why do you give two shiats if the person that hit your car is caught or not.
 
2013-05-26 06:17:22 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.

His story is backed up by the evidence.
He lost sight of Martin while on the phone with dispatch.
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap, I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.

Was that before Zimmerman was told to fark off and go home?


Considering he never was, I'm gonna go with... before?
 
2013-05-26 06:17:41 PM  

Abox: mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.

Did he have a criminal record for violence and assault?


George Zimmerman did.
 
2013-05-26 06:18:20 PM  

Saturn5: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 554x322]
Trust everything the media tells you.


As opposed to the media image of Martin being a pot smoker and a....

mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.


as well as....

seadoo2006: This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.

 
2013-05-26 06:18:21 PM  

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

That's a perfect way to start a fight.
To bad that's not what happened in this case.


Tell us what happened. You seem to know something the rest of the country doesn't.
 
2013-05-26 06:19:08 PM  

seadoo2006: Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious black, and get pissed shot if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave. Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?


ftfy
 
2013-05-26 06:19:34 PM  
Every teenager is hostile. Great detective work there, Lou. Hell, sitting in traffic makes me hostile.

Hostile texts does not justiy killing me.
 
2013-05-26 06:19:41 PM  

seadoo2006: gimmegimme: seadoo2006: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?

Zimmerman didn't own the home.  Your analogy is sillypants.

Besides, you would call 911 and do as you're told.

Uh, no, I've called 911 on several obvious drunk drivers and a couple hit-and-run people and followed them even against the 911 operator's advice ... why you may ask? For the same reason that people own guns, because by the time the police show up, that person is long gone.

Put it another way ... if you were sideswiped in traffic and the person took off ... would you call the police and wait for them to catch the hit and run, or would you keep your tabs on them until the police got there?  I mean, that's what insurance is for, so why do you give two shiats if the person that hit your car is caught or not.


Okay, okay...let's continue with your line of thought.  You would follow someone who just sideswiped you so you could get their license plate number.  You would stand out on your porch with a gun when someone walks through your yard.  (You're a helluva neighbor, by the way.)  I can see the logic here.

Why was Zimmerman following Martin?  Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?
 
2013-05-26 06:20:15 PM  

LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?


Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either
 
2013-05-26 06:20:42 PM  

special20: My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.


He should be housed with Jodi Arias.
 
2013-05-26 06:21:11 PM  

gimmegimme: seadoo2006: gimmegimme: seadoo2006: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?

Zimmerman didn't own the home.  Your analogy is sillypants.

Besides, you would call 911 and do as you're told.

Uh, no, I've called 911 on several obvious drunk drivers and a couple hit-and-run people and followed them even against the 911 operator's advice ... why you may ask? For the same reason that people own guns, because by the time the police show up, that person is long gone.

Put it another way ... if you were sideswiped in traffic and the person took off ... would you call the police and wait for them to catch the hit and run, or would you keep your tabs on them until the police got there?  I mean, that's what insurance is for, so why do you give two shiats if the person that hit your car is caught or not.

Okay, okay...let's continue with your line of thought.  You would f ...


I believe having a CCW makes anything an 'armed pursuit' ...
 
2013-05-26 06:21:19 PM  
The mestizo walks. The only time he might have done anything illegal was the period for which we have only his account.
 
2013-05-26 06:21:31 PM  

duffblue: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

That's a perfect way to start a fight.
To bad that's not what happened in this case.

Tell us what happened. You seem to know something the rest of the country doesn't.


Be cause your hyperbolic rest of the country doesn't read the phone call transcripts, listen to the calls, read the witness statements, Zimmerman's statements, etc.
It's all outlined, its all pretty much follows Zimmerman's accounting of things.
No, everyone just grabs onto whatever story they heard on the news the night of the shooting, or whatever misinformation was distributed through Facebook, Twitter, and whatever other social media people use these days and treats it as gospel.
 
2013-05-26 06:21:32 PM  

Saturn5: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 554x322]
Trust everything the media tells you.


I was under the impression that Martin was portrayed as a somewhat typical teenager and that Zimmerman was thought of as being more like this minus the badge:

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-26 06:21:41 PM  

gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...


You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots
 
2013-05-26 06:21:46 PM  

ChaosStar: Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.


No sir.  Those are signs that he was on the losing end of a fight.  A gun may make you feel tough but it doesn't make you tough.
 
2013-05-26 06:21:48 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either


Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?
 
2013-05-26 06:22:47 PM  

tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.


All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him
 
2013-05-26 06:23:39 PM  

gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?


Who said it was a murder?
 
2013-05-26 06:24:13 PM  

gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?


weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?
 
2013-05-26 06:24:24 PM  
And yet the fat white guy with the jumpy trigger finger odds the Jeep on this story?

/either this is a stunt from his lawyers to gain sympathy from the judge/jury, or he's got a shiatty defence, I can't decide
 
2013-05-26 06:24:43 PM  

duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots


Are you aware that there are riots caused by non-blah people?

seadoo2006: I believe having a CCW makes anything an 'armed pursuit' ...


You didn't answer my questions.  Why was Zimmerman following Martin?  Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?
 
2013-05-26 06:24:45 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him



But really who can say who chased who with a gun at this point.  Coulda been Martin on the phone with 911 stalking Zim.
 
2013-05-26 06:24:50 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him


So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?
 
2013-05-26 06:25:40 PM  
I can't believe there are still Zimmerman fanboys.
 
2013-05-26 06:26:19 PM  
shiat, I thought he'd already gotten off with that defense.
 
2013-05-26 06:26:21 PM  

duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?



Nah, wait til the stranger in a dark parking lot gets a shot off.
 
2013-05-26 06:26:31 PM  
Trayvon had a picture of a gun on his phone, so now the defense is going to try to infer that he owned a gun? Well, I have a picture of a 12 inch dick on my iPhone, so I must be Peter North!

Since he had gold teeth, Trayvon must have also been a hoodlum! Quick, someone stop Ke$ha before she robs a 7-11!

Good lord, there's even video of him fighting in the schoolyard, which no other teenage boy does - ever!

Well, based on this totally non-circumstantial evidence that was totally not a fishing expedition and delay tactic, it's obvious that Zimmerman totally gave that thug what he deserved, because that's what a tough, virile lawman that gets all the ladies moist does!
 
2013-05-26 06:26:56 PM  

duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

Who said it was a murder?


Wow, all of the Zimknobslobberers are being evasive tonight.  I'll rephrase to try and get an answer.

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?


You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?
 
2013-05-26 06:27:01 PM  

Abox: ChaosStar: Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.

No sir.  Those are signs that he was on the losing end of a fight.  A gun may make you feel tough but it doesn't make you tough.


The gun certainly made Martin a lot weaker didn't it? It's a force multiplier so, yeah, it does make you tougher in that you can use it to walk away from a situation that an unarmed person wouldn't live through.

Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.
 
2013-05-26 06:27:44 PM  

gimmegimme: duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots

Are you aware that there are riots caused by non-blah people?

seadoo2006: I believe having a CCW makes anything an 'armed pursuit' ...

You didn't answer my questions.  Why was Zimmerman following Martin?  Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?


No shiat sherlock, why would I talk about soccer riots though?
 
2013-05-26 06:28:01 PM  

duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?


Is it acceptable to assault someone you are confronting?
 
2013-05-26 06:28:13 PM  

duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?


You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...
 
2013-05-26 06:28:25 PM  

ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.


Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.
 
2013-05-26 06:29:10 PM  

gimmegimme: duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots

Are you aware that there are riots caused by non-blah people?

seadoo2006: I believe having a CCW makes anything an 'armed pursuit' ...

You didn't answer my questions.  Why was Zimmerman following Martin?


It doesn't matter.  Unless you have a restraining order, you are allowed to follow people in this country.

Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

It doesn't matter.  He had authority to be armed (I assume he had a license to be armed), you don't anyone's authority to pursuit (aka follow) someone.
 
2013-05-26 06:29:22 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

Is it acceptable to assault someone you are confronting?


Is it acceptable to shoot someone you've been stalking and hunting for no reason after being told by 911 to go home?
 
2013-05-26 06:29:25 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...


Hence reasonable doubt
 
2013-05-26 06:29:43 PM  
Shiat, I have photos of a gun on my phone from the last time I was at the range. A machine gun even! Guess that means I'm in need of a killin'.
 
2013-05-26 06:29:54 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...


But it's impossible for him to be telling the truth, right Nancy Grace?
 
2013-05-26 06:31:08 PM  

Doom MD: Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...

Hence reasonable doubt


How convenient that you can create reasonable doubt by killing your victim instead of being him up.

tenpoundsofcheese: It doesn't matter. He had authority to be armed (I assume he had a license to be armed), you don't anyone's authority to pursuit (aka follow) someone.


Why was he pursuing Martin in the first place?  Surely he had a reason to roll around behind the kid and then follow him on foot.
 
2013-05-26 06:31:18 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either


apparently that limit was reached.  he was weighed, he was measured, and he was found wanting.
 
2013-05-26 06:31:35 PM  
gimmegimme:
Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

I think it's somewhere in the guidelines that when you jump on someone and start bashing their head into the pavement, they'll probably try to shoot you if they can.
 
2013-05-26 06:31:37 PM  

duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots


The "negative Trayon evidence" might be considered largely irrelevant.  Zimmerman didn't know anything about him, except what happened that night.  And the fact that he lost a fight might serve as a motive for his pursuit and shooting.
 
2013-05-26 06:31:41 PM  
Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!
 
2013-05-26 06:32:08 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...


Naw, what possible motive might Zimmerman have for lying about who struck first?
 
2013-05-26 06:32:38 PM  

ChaosStar: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

He might have, if he had been told to stay in his car. He wasn't though; he was asked by the dispatcher if he was following him (Martin), he said yes, the dispatcher told him that he didn't need to do that to which he replied ok and stopped.


A dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer in Seminole County.....they cannot order you to not do something. A dispatcher could be prosecuted and sent to prison if they mislead that they are law enforcement and they are not

If the Tobias Funke clone of a prosecutor goes down this route w the dispatcher....GZ lawyers will go analrapist on him. Tobias would be making one huge mistake... he blue the case

(Welcome back Arrested Development)
 
2013-05-26 06:32:40 PM  
I'm sorry, if someone approaches me with a gun, I don't try to kick his ass.  I lay down, ask him to call the police, and sort it out.

I don't know what level of ignorance it requires to actively fight someone with a firearm, but this kid was surely under it.
 
2013-05-26 06:32:44 PM  

gimmegimme: Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.

Dude, why wouldn't you take Zimmerman's story at face value?


We don't need to take his story at face value.

  - The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

... and finally,
 
  - Any other alternate descriptions of the event are based on pure speculation of attitudes or events that either appear to conflict with the character history of those involved (Zimmerman as a racist, Martin as non-violent), or are impossible to prove (Zimmerman initiated a physical assault after the phone call), and thus not valid evidence, and should be ignored.

We have no need to take his story at face value; it's already been tested at the hands of the law, and it has passed.  It's a reasonable explanation of events, and it's been confirmed to the best ability of the professionals who's job it is to handle such things.

I suspect that those who disagree, who cling to their speculations, are actually exhibiting some sort of bias; either versus authority, guns, assumed guilt of the survivor of a conflict, or simply by way of racial discrimination.
 
2013-05-26 06:33:03 PM  
Subby your love for criminals and hatred towards those who stop them is wrong-headed and ignorant.

But then I guess you already know that don't you?
 
2013-05-26 06:33:13 PM  
gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?


I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.

As to your second, no, Zimmerman wasn't playing police officer. He was being a concerned citizen who was reporting everything he was seeing to the police, and following the instructions from the dispatcher including not following Martin when he was told he didn't need to.
 
2013-05-26 06:33:15 PM  

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?


If the definition of "playing police officer" is following someone, then yes, he was following Martin so by your definition he was playing police officer.  Now, there is nothing illegal about following someone, so I am not sure what your point is.

Why would you imply that he needed to get permission from someone to follow someone else?
 
2013-05-26 06:33:19 PM  

tyrajam: gimmegimme:
Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

I think it's somewhere in the guidelines that when you jump on someone and start bashing their head into the pavement, they'll probably try to shoot you if they can.


What you said makes no sense.  What possible motivation do people have for bringing Martin's online speech into a discussion of his death?
 
2013-05-26 06:34:42 PM  

Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.


This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.
 
2013-05-26 06:35:12 PM  
images.quickblogcast.com
But will he still sell me an affordable suit?

/And can I set that tie on fire? It's hideous.
 
2013-05-26 06:35:21 PM  
It's s'funny the Farkers here drawing parallels to their Florida youth, these guys would already bringing their personal biases into the courtroom, they won't sit you...the defense is gonna have a jury of a dozen busdrivers, http://www.examiner.com/article/trayvon-martin-s-ten-day-suspension
& you can bet on a McDuffie verdict (Google it, young'ins-thorns shoved down a dying kid's throat)
 
2013-05-26 06:35:28 PM  

Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!


That's exactly the type of altercation that SYG was passed for ... the ability for someone who is in a weaker position to kill someone in a potentially lethal stronger position.  You'd think for all the pro-gun tards, you'd be happy someone stood their ground.

God forbid, you know, you were beat up for your wallet and wanted to defend yourself ... isn't that what you're all for.  It doesn't matter if Martin was being followed ... the evidence shows that Zimmerman was beat up, thus, allowing SYG to be used.  Wasn't Florida the state that said SYG was legal for verbal threats as well?
 
2013-05-26 06:35:39 PM  
Sure...and the drunk driver thinks his alcohol use is not relevant in his case

Trademark was stoned when he assaulted GZ...he uses pot...it will come in
 
2013-05-26 06:36:03 PM  

quietwalker: gimmegimme: Abox: seadoo2006: ChaosStar: From CNN.com's timeline of the events:
"According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after Zimmerman briefly lost track of Martin, the teen approached him. After the two exchange words, Zimmerman says, he reaches for his cell phone, and then Martin punches him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pins him to the ground and begins slamming his head into the sidewalk." Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.
When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

This ... can't believe this is still being debated.  It's good the little shiatstain got shot ... Zimmerman should be thanks for doing the world a favor.


That this is Zimmerman's story isn't being debated.

Dude, why wouldn't you take Zimmerman's story at face value?

We don't need to take his story at face value.

  - The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

... and finally,
 
  - Any other alternate descriptions of the event are based on pure speculation of attitudes or events that either appear to conflict with the character history of those involved (Zimmerman as a racist, Martin as non-violent), or are impossible to prove (Zimmerman initiated a physical assault after the phone call), and thus not valid evidence, and should be ignored.

We have n ...


I thought this hadn't gone to trial yet... Interesting. So they are re-trying him?
 
2013-05-26 06:36:23 PM  
So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?
 
2013-05-26 06:36:40 PM  

Abox: I B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!


The SYG immunity was not applicable here. WTF are you yapping about.
 
2013-05-26 06:36:55 PM  
No one needs police permission to follow someone.

A police dispatcher cannot order you not to follow someone.

Being followed is not a lawful justification for assaulting someone.

Reasonable force may be used to defend against an assault.

Deadly force is reasonable and lawful to defend against an assault where that assault likely will result in death or serious bodily injury. 

Nothing I just said makes sense to a liberal.
 
2013-05-26 06:36:58 PM  

ChaosStar: What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.

As to your second, no, Zimmerman wasn't playing police officer. He was being a concerned citizen who was reporting everything he was seeing to the police, and following the instructions from the dispatcher including not following Martin when he was told he didn't need to.


Why does Martin's online rhetoric matter, but Zimmerman's history of violence doesn't?  If Zimmerman ended the pursuit after being told "you don't have to do that," why wasn't he driving home?

tenpoundsofcheese: If the definition of "playing police officer" is following someone, then yes, he was following Martin so by your definition he was playing police officer. Now, there is nothing illegal about following someone, so I am not sure what your point is.

Why would you imply that he needed to get permission from someone to follow someone else?


Surely Zimmerman had a good reason to follow Martin, right?
 
2013-05-26 06:37:41 PM  

gimmegimme: Doom MD: Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...

Hence reasonable doubt

How convenient that you can create reasonable doubt by killing your victim instead of being him up.

tenpoundsofcheese: It doesn't matter. He had authority to be armed (I assume he had a license to be armed), you don't anyone's authority to pursuit (aka follow) someone.

Why was he pursuing Martin in the first place?  Surely he had a reason to roll around behind the kid and then follow him on foot.


Burden of proof is proving that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon. It's not who is more likely telling the truth.
 
2013-05-26 06:38:42 PM  

Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.

when the gun goes off in the middle of the fight.

I don't know if that happened, but if I were the defense attorney, that would be one of scenarios I would try in getting to "reasonable doubt".   You see it all the time in the movies.  Fight.  Gun goes off.  Each person looks at each other as if to say "one of us were shot, was it you?".  One guy falls to the ground.
 
2013-05-26 06:38:57 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: ChaosStar: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

He might have, if he had been told to stay in his car. He wasn't though; he was asked by the dispatcher if he was following him (Martin), he said yes, the dispatcher told him that he didn't need to do that to which he replied ok and stopped.

A dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer in Seminole County.....they cannot order you to not do something. A dispatcher could be prosecuted and sent to prison if they mislead that they are law enforcement and they are not

If the Tobias Funke clone of a prosecutor goes down this route w the dispatcher....GZ lawyers will go analrapist on him. Tobias would be making one huge mistake... he blue the case

(Welcome back Arrested Development)


I'm not sure what side you're coming down on on this. I never said the dispatcher told him what to do or said they were a leo?
They told him that he didn't need to follow Martin, he said ok and stopped. Everyone keeps clinging to the (madeup) story that Zimmerman charged up to Martin and started demanding answers from him when the only time they exchanged words was right before Martin started the altercation that led to the shooting.
 
2013-05-26 06:39:10 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: Sure...and the drunk driver thinks his alcohol use is not relevant in his case

Trademark was stoned when he assaulted GZ...he uses pot...it will come in


A drunk driver isn't followed around by his car for several minutes in a suspicious manner.

Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?


So you're admitting that Zimmerman has a documented history of real violence.  Awesome.
 
2013-05-26 06:39:37 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: duffblue: Peter von Nostrand: tyrajam: The fact that he likes his weed is irrelevant to the case. The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.

All of which is irrelevant if Zimmerman doesn't follow him for no reason and confront him

So it's acceptable to assault somebody who confronts you?

You'd think this was painfully obvious by now, but we have only Zimmerman's word for it that Martin struck first, and its possible he has some motivation for lying in this regard...


Well his testimony and the coroner's report
 
2013-05-26 06:39:53 PM  

gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.


...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.
 
2013-05-26 06:39:55 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: No one needs police permission to follow someone.

A police dispatcher cannot order you not to follow someone.

Being followed is not a lawful justification for assaulting someone.

Reasonable force may be used to defend against an assault.

Deadly force is reasonable and lawful to defend against an assault where that assault likely will result in death or serious bodily injury. 

Nothing I just said makes sense to a liberal.


It makes perfect sense to me and I'm a liberal!
 
2013-05-26 06:40:19 PM  

AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.


You would have been arrested also...
 
2013-05-26 06:40:25 PM  

tyrajam: The fact that he was having online conversations about purple drank, it was found in his system, and he was returning after buying 2 of the 3 ingredients used to make it does help explain why he was so aggressive and attacked the little mexican guy who ended up shooting him in self defense.


From Wikipedia: The autopsy report stated that Martin had trace levels of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his blood and urine.[144][145] The toxicology report found the levels to be 1.5 nanograms/ml of THC and 7.3 nanograms/ml of THC-COOH, a metabolite of THC that can stay in the system for weeks after cannabis has been smoked.[144][145] Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science, stated that the THC amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior.[146]

If he had consumed "purple drank" he would have had codeine in his system, which is not the case. Also, "drank" makes you lethargic, not aggressive (codeine is a sedative). "Drank" requires cough syrup, sprite (or vodka) and sometimes Jolly Ranchers. None of these items were purchased from Trayvon the night of his murder.

If you're going to troll, at least try harder than that.

2/10
 
2013-05-26 06:40:34 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: No one needs police permission to follow someone.

A police dispatcher cannot order you not to follow someone.

Being followed is not a lawful justification for assaulting someone.

Reasonable force may be used to defend against an assault.

Deadly force is reasonable and lawful to defend against an assault where that assault likely will result in death or serious bodily injury. 

Nothing I just said makes sense to a liberal.


Sweeping generalizations made up of preconceived biases FTW
 
2013-05-26 06:40:49 PM  

ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.


Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.
 
2013-05-26 06:40:58 PM  

gimmegimme: So you're admitting that Zimmerman has a documented history of real violence. Awesome.


Both Martin and Zimmerman have documented use of violence. Zimmerman's was what, almost a decade prior, while Martin's was weeks before. Zimmerman had since then stayed away from trouble and had exemplary behavior, while Zimmerman was still pursuing criminal activity and talking about doing violent deeds over facebook and texts.
 
2013-05-26 06:41:34 PM  
Where is the internet dentist?
 
2013-05-26 06:41:51 PM  

Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?


Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...
 
2013-05-26 06:43:01 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?

Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...


Other than the fights on his phone and punching the bus driver?
 
2013-05-26 06:43:18 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: If he had consumed "purple drank" he would have had codeine in his system, which is not the case. Also, "drank" makes you lethargic, not aggressive (codeine is a sedative). "Drank" requires cough syrup, sprite (or vodka) and sometimes Jolly Ranchers. None of these items were purchased from Trayvon the night of his murder.


Actually that's false, he had both sprite (well, a variant, it was not iced tea, as reported) and he had skittles (doesn't just have to be Jolly Ranchers) and he has documented discussion about using codeine and drinking purple drank.

Doesn't mean he was high on the night, more likely he went to buy what he needed and was going back home to get high on some sizzurp.
 
2013-05-26 06:44:01 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.

As to your second, no, Zimmerman wasn't playing police officer. He was being a concerned citizen who was reporting everything he was seeing to the police, and following the instructions from the dispatcher including not following Martin when he was told he didn't need to.

Why does Martin's online rhetoric matter, but Zimmerman's history of violence doesn't?  If Zimmerman ended the pursuit after being told "you don't have to do that," why wasn't he driving home?


Who's saying Zimmerman's history of violence doesn't matter? No one but the voices in your head apparently, cause I haven't seen it in this thread.
Why wasn't he driving home? Well because he wasn't at his truck then, remember he stopped pursuit, and because he was waiting for a call from the officers to tell them where to meet, since he didn't want to say his address aloud as he didn't know where Martin was?
 
2013-05-26 06:44:08 PM  

seadoo2006: Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!

That's exactly the type of altercation that SYG was passed for



Chasing somebody down and shooting someone because you're on the losing end of a fight that would never had happened had you ACTUALLY stood your ground?  Ah, sure why not.
 
2013-05-26 06:44:13 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...


Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.
 
2013-05-26 06:44:49 PM  

IlGreven: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.


Really? Because around here, if you're walking your dog after 11pm, or if you look 'young' and are out after 11pm (curfew), you can expect to be stopped, identified, and questioned as to your reason for being out.  If you don't have a valid reason for breaking curfew, you get a trip home and a summons to juvie court.  I'm 25 and have been stopped several times by the unmarked Cleveland Heights beat cop Grand Marquis'.

I'd say in MOST communities, youths that are walking around at night are going to be assigned a suspicious label and questioned.  I would expect no less from my local police department.  But, see, our PD bans kids from our business districts after 6pm, so I appreciate their concern for the general hoodlums that tend to loiter around.

http://www.clevelandheights.com/index.aspx?page=1004

"In addition, no unsupervised persons under the age of 18 may be on public streets in the Coventry business district, the Cedar Lee business district and the Severance Town Center between the hours of 6:00 pm to 6:00 am."
 
2013-05-26 06:45:22 PM  

seadoo2006: mexican bathtub cheese: No one needs police permission to follow someone.

A police dispatcher cannot order you not to follow someone.

Being followed is not a lawful justification for assaulting someone.

Reasonable force may be used to defend against an assault.

Deadly force is reasonable and lawful to defend against an assault where that assault likely will result in death or serious bodily injury. 

Nothing I just said makes sense to a liberal.

It makes perfect sense to me and I'm a liberal!


I meant liberal in the pejorative sense, not an actual liberal.
 
2013-05-26 06:45:46 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

You would have been arrested also...


is what i meant
 
2013-05-26 06:45:47 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme:
Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

I think it's somewhere in the guidelines that when you jump on someone and start bashing their head into the pavement, they'll probably try to shoot you if they can.

What you said makes no sense.  What possible motivation do people have for bringing Martin's online speech into a discussion of his death?


What I'm saying-and I'll type slowly so you can follow-is that all that matters is that Zimmerman was attacked and his head was being bashed into the cement. That is why the police initially decided not to arrest Zimmerman.
 
2013-05-26 06:46:41 PM  

Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.


Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.
 
2013-05-26 06:48:42 PM  

AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.


Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?
 
2013-05-26 06:48:52 PM  

ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.

Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.


The man with known power-trip and anger management issues biatching about how "they always get away" is a good start.
 
2013-05-26 06:48:56 PM  

tyrajam: gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme:
Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

I think it's somewhere in the guidelines that when you jump on someone and start bashing their head into the pavement, they'll probably try to shoot you if they can.

What you said makes no sense.  What possible motivation do people have for bringing Martin's online speech into a discussion of his death?

What I'm saying-and I'll type slowly so you can follow-is that all that matters is that Zimmerman was attacked and his head was being bashed into the cement. That is why the police initially decided not to arrest Zimmerman.


You need to search your heart and search your soul and when you find me there, you'll search no more.  Do you realize that you are excusing the shooting on a self-defense basis and ignoring the fact that the 17-year-old kid also had ample opportunity to be afraid for his life?  Why in the world would you only have concern for one person and not the other?
 
2013-05-26 06:49:00 PM  

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.


There's no evidence that any assault happened against a bus driver. Martin was suspended for marijuana.

If having tweets claiming to be in fights makes you violent, the entire Internet Tough Guy Brigade here should be in prison for life.
 
2013-05-26 06:49:28 PM  

mr intrepid: duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots

The "negative Trayon evidence" might be considered largely irrelevant.  Zimmerman didn't know anything about him, except what happened that night.  And the fact that he lost a fight might serve as a motive for his pursuit and shooting.


You slam the back of my head into the ground, you die. Period. I would rather go to jail if the alternatives are death or mental retardation.

Take your head out of your arse for a second and pretend Zimmerman is your grandfather. What would you want your grandfather to do? That punk lived like a gangster and he died like a gangster. BET ought to give Zimmerman a medal for keeping the brand alive.
 
2013-05-26 06:50:14 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: No one needs police permission to follow someone.

A police dispatcher cannot order you not to follow someone.

Being followed is not a lawful justification for assaulting someone.

Reasonable force may be used to defend against an assault.

Deadly force is reasonable and lawful to defend against an assault where that assault likely will result in death or serious bodily injury. 

Nothing I just said makes sense to a liberal.


Great post...especially the last line
 
2013-05-26 06:50:15 PM  

Abox: seadoo2006: Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!

That's exactly the type of altercation that SYG was passed for


Chasing somebody down and shooting someone because you're on the losing end of a fight that would never had happened had you ACTUALLY stood your ground?  Ah, sure why not.


Your scenario is completely different than what happened in the Zimmerman case. When you chase the person down, you are the aggressor until you end the altercation. Anything you do means you did it without provocation and as such are not allowed to "stand your ground".
Zimmerman did not chase down Martin, no matter how much you want to scream it at the top of your lungs the evidence clearly shows it didn't happen that way.
 
2013-05-26 06:50:35 PM  

MJMaloney187: mr intrepid: duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots

The "negative Trayon evidence" might be considered largely irrelevant.  Zimmerman didn't know anything about him, except what happened that night.  And the fact that he lost a fight might serve as a motive for his pursuit and shooting.

You slam the back of my head into the ground, you die. Period. I would rather go to jail if the alternatives are death or mental retardation.

Take your head out of your arse for a second and pretend Zimmerman is your grandfather. What would you want your grandfather to do? That punk lived like a gangster and he died like a gangster. BET ought to give Zimmerman a medal for keeping the brand alive.


bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?

 
2013-05-26 06:51:40 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.

As to your second, no, Zimmerman wasn't playing police officer. He was being a concerned citizen who was reporting everything he was seeing to the police, and following the instructions from the dispatcher including not following Martin when he was told he didn't need to.

Why does Martin's online rhetoric matter, but Zimmerman's history of violence doesn't?  If Zimmerman ended the pursuit after being told "you don't have to do that," why wasn't he driving home?

tenpoundsofcheese: If the definition of "playing police officer" is following someone, then yes, he was following Martin so by your definition he was playing police officer. Now, there is nothing illegal about following someone, so I am not sure what your point is.

Why would you imply that he needed to get permission from someone to follow someone else?

Surely Zimmerman had a good reason to follow Martin, right?


I don't know you keep harping on this.  It doesn't farking matter.

Re-read quietwalker's post.  It is really good.  I didn't know parts of the story either.

The reality of all of this is that we are never going to know the "truth".
I wish Martin wasn't shot.
I expect that the defense can plant enough reasonable doubt to get him acquitted.
 
2013-05-26 06:51:44 PM  
Fark disappointed me. Zimmerman deserves the death penalty. It doesn't matter the content of Martin's character except for one thing, was he confrontational? Zimmerman has a history of being wound up tight with a justice complex. Martin defended himself and stood his ground. If Zimmerman gets off he and his wife better move to Peru with mama. He won't be safe anywhere state side.
 
2013-05-26 06:51:52 PM  

gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?


Since there's been no trial, how can you say there's been a murder?
 
2013-05-26 06:52:11 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

There's no evidence that any assault happened against a bus driver. Martin was suspended for marijuana.

If having tweets claiming to be in fights makes you violent, the entire Internet Tough Guy Brigade here should be in prison for life.


stash.norml.org
Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?
 
2013-05-26 06:52:21 PM  

ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.


Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.
 
2013-05-26 06:52:37 PM  

LordJiro: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.

Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.

The man with known power-trip and anger management issues biatching about how "they always get away" is a good start.


You could win an Olympic gold with that leap buddy.
A man has anger management issues, and he complaining that the crooks always get away because police response time is so slow, clearly that means he was stalking Martin through the neighborhood.
What deductive reasoning are you using huh?
 
2013-05-26 06:52:58 PM  
By far I am not a Zimmerman defender. HOWEVER, your article lends zero credence when you use this farking picture.
assets.nydailynews.com
 
2013-05-26 06:53:07 PM  

LegacyDL: When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?


They don't.  But they do become relevant when asserting the affirmative defense of self defense.

Without the defense... prejudicial.  With the defense... probative. 

This is likely why they elected not to have a "Stand Your Ground" hearing where the charges could have been dismissed.  That allows the jury to see the phone contents in the context of him proving his affirmative defense.
 
2013-05-26 06:54:33 PM  

ChaosStar: LordJiro: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.

Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.

The man with known power-trip and anger management issues biatching about how "they always get away" is a good start.

You could win an Olympic gold with that leap buddy.
A man has anger management issues, and he complaining that the crooks always get away because police response time is so slow, clearly that means he was stalking Martin through the neighborhood.
What deductive reasoning are you using huh?


Why was he not in his truck after being told he 'didn't need to follow Martin'? Why did he just not go home, or go wherever he wanted to meet the cops, then call them back?
 
2013-05-26 06:54:36 PM  

ChaosStar: FloridaFarkTag: ChaosStar: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

He might have, if he had been told to stay in his car. He wasn't though; he was asked by the dispatcher if he was following him (Martin), he said yes, the dispatcher told him that he didn't need to do that to which he replied ok and stopped.

A dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer in Seminole County.....they cannot order you to not do something. A dispatcher could be prosecuted and sent to prison if they mislead that they are law enforcement and they are not

If the Tobias Funke clone of a prosecutor goes down this route w the dispatcher....GZ lawyers will go analrapist on him. Tobias would be making one huge mistake... he blue the case

(Welcome back Arrested Development)

I'm not sure what side you're coming down on on this. I never said the dispatcher told him what to do or said they were a leo?
They told him that he didn't need to follow Martin, he said ok and stopped. Everyone keeps clinging to the (madeup) story that Zimmerman charged up to Martin and started demanding answers from him when the only time they exchanged words was right before Martin started the altercation that led to the shooting.


We both believe Zim is innocent

Probably should have used another post to bring up what a dispatcher is....however, the gibberish spewd by Team Skittles is just not respondable
 
2013-05-26 06:54:42 PM  

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.


So that means he totally deserved to die?
 
2013-05-26 06:54:59 PM  

ChaosStar: Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.



Except he did start the fight.  Or are you now saying the kid dragged him out of his car?  I mean youre making up other shiat, why not make up carjacking?
 
2013-05-26 06:55:46 PM  
AirForceVet:If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down. He didn't. Everyone says Zimmerman was allowed to stand his ground, and that he was beaten as a result. Well, excuse the fark out of me, but if that asshole had been following me, I would've beaten him unconscious, standing MY ground. Apparently it's ok for Zimmerman, a twat with a record of violence, to stand his ground, but not for the black kid- with no record.
 
2013-05-26 06:56:18 PM  

A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?


Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.
 
2013-05-26 06:56:44 PM  

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.


Except he did start the fight.  Or are you now saying the kid dragged him out of his car?  I mean youre making up other shiat, why not make up carjacking?


Of course he was carjacked! He was a thug hopped up on purple drank looking to break into white people houses!

Oh, and if you think that's racist, YOU'RE THE REAL RACISTS!
 
2013-05-26 06:57:11 PM  

BgJonson79: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

Since there's been no trial, how can you say there's been a murder?


I'm not on the jury.  "Alleged murder."  Happy now?

jayphat: By far I am not a Zimmerman defender. HOWEVER, your article lends zero credence when you use this farking picture.
[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x835]


In all honesty, folks, this happens with just about every crime or every person who dies.  They use a pleasant picture.  We had a guy in high school who died in a car crash while driving the wrong way down a one-way street with no lights on on a suspended license while drunk and high and driving with his knees, etc.  The news and newspaper used his school picture for obvious reasons.  Come on.
 
2013-05-26 06:57:32 PM  

Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?


How would you feel about the prosecution's presenting evidence of Zimmerman's previous run-ins with the law at trial?  Irrelevant?
 
2013-05-26 06:57:49 PM  

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


Zimmerman's collar?
His shoulders?
 
2013-05-26 06:58:44 PM  

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.


Seriously Tatsuma, you're usually smarter than this. The "bus driver assault" never happened (something ten seconds googling would've established), the "burglary tools" were a screwdriver, and it was never established that anything in his locker was stolen property. After that, you've got some tweets. Yup, kid was definitely a menace to society.
 
2013-05-26 06:58:49 PM  

seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.


So if I were unarmed, and approached by someone who I KNOW has been following me with unknown intent, who then pulls a gun on me, I should just accept the bullet? Or wait for an explanation, and risk...well, getting shot? Or should I attempt to defend myself?
 
2013-05-26 06:58:56 PM  

tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.


"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.
 
2013-05-26 06:59:11 PM  

seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.


He was on the way to beating up an armed dude when Zimmerman shot and killed him.  Can you at least acknowledge intellectually that Martin could have been afraid and could have been scared in the same way Zimmerman was scared?
 
2013-05-26 06:59:54 PM  
I don't know if George Zimmerman is guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin or not.  Only God can know that.  Everybody in this thread who is God, raise your hands.

WhatI do know is that the entire thing could have been avoided had either party attempted to de-escalate the situation rather than keep escalating it.  Can we focus on whether there's a cultural change here that we can collectively make to prevent future incidents, instead of rooting for/against Team Black Kid or Team Hispanic Man?
 
2013-05-26 07:00:07 PM  

bugontherug: Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.


I was going to quote the witnesses but then I realized 'Hey, it's bugontherug! We've already had this discussion when I pointed at all the witnesses showing Trayvon assaulting Zimmerman!' and then lost any will to waste my time.

Wolf_Blitzer: There's no evidence that any assault happened against a bus driver. Martin was suspended for marijuana.

If having tweets claiming to be in fights makes you violent, the entire Internet Tough Guy Brigade here should be in prison for life.


He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG
 
2013-05-26 07:00:14 PM  
After re-reviewing the facts, and reading through here, I'm actually a little confused.  Maybe someone could clear things up for me

I can't exactly tell when someone is simply a gun hater, a cop/authority hater, a racist, motivated by some sort of politically correct guilt, or some combination of the above.

About the only folks I can detect are those who think drug users or thug-gangsters deserve death, and those who believe their assumptions are valid enough to circumvent the definition of existing laws.

Any help?
 
2013-05-26 07:00:50 PM  

ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.
 
2013-05-26 07:00:53 PM  

ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.
 
2013-05-26 07:00:59 PM  

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


Trayvon could have been holding onto his ears. It's not like Zimmerman was using them that night.
 
2013-05-26 07:01:05 PM  

LordJiro: seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.

So if I were unarmed, and approached by someone who I KNOW has been following me with unknown intent, who then pulls a gun on me, I should just accept the bullet? Or wait for an explanation, and risk...well, getting shot? Or should I attempt to defend myself?


Please show your evidence that the gun was pulled prior to Martin getting shot.
 
2013-05-26 07:01:07 PM  

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.


Except he did start the fight.  Or are you now saying the kid dragged him out of his car?  I mean youre making up other shiat, why not make up carjacking?


Except he didn't. He lost Martin, was going back to his vehicle, Martin approached him, the spoke for the first time that night and Martin attacked Zimmerman. I would ask why this is so hard for people to comprehend but I know there's a million different stories out there containing a million different, incorrect nuances to the night.
 
2013-05-26 07:01:19 PM  

Tatsuma: FuryOfFirestorm: If he had consumed "purple drank" he would have had codeine in his system, which is not the case. Also, "drank" makes you lethargic, not aggressive (codeine is a sedative). "Drank" requires cough syrup, sprite (or vodka) and sometimes Jolly Ranchers. None of these items were purchased from Trayvon the night of his murder.

Actually that's false, he had both sprite (well, a variant, it was not iced tea, as reported) and he had skittles (doesn't just have to be Jolly Ranchers) and he has documented discussion about using codeine and drinking purple drank.

Doesn't mean he was high on the night, more likely he went to buy what he needed and was going back home to get high on some sizzurp.


Come on, don't knock the purple drank! Even though I'm not a hip-hop fan, I still appreciate DJ Screw as a fine beverage connoisseur. I'd pair the drank with old school EBM and electro-industrial (think Klinik, Yeht Mae, Portion Control, DAF, Nitzer Ebb, Skinny Puppy, Borghesia, A Split Second, The Cassandra Complex, G.G.F.H., etc...) myself.

Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.
 
2013-05-26 07:01:38 PM  

whatshisname: I can't believe there are still Zimmerman fanboys.


I can't believe there are still Martin fan "boys."
 
2013-05-26 07:01:50 PM  
So Zimmerman gets jumped from behind and has face smashed into the sidewalk makes him the aggressive one? Martin deserved what he got. The only question now is how bad the blacks will riot when Zimmerman is found not guilty. We all know they won't be able to act like humans when it happens
 
2013-05-26 07:02:01 PM  

Tatsuma: bugontherug: Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

I was going to quote the witnesses but then I realized 'Hey, it's bugontherug! We've already had this discussion when I pointed at all the witnesses showing Trayvon assaulting Zimmerman!' and then lost any will to waste my time.

Wolf_Blitzer: There's no evidence that any assault happened against a bus driver. Martin was suspended for marijuana.

If having tweets claiming to be in fights makes you violent, the entire Internet Tough Guy Brigade here should be in prison for life.

He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG


I' mein a bit of a pickle...I can't find verification that Martin texted the gun picture to Zimmerman.

Otherwise, why would you care?
 
2013-05-26 07:02:42 PM  

Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG


Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.
 
2013-05-26 07:03:05 PM  

LordJiro: hy was he not in his truck after being told he 'didn't need to follow Martin'? Why did he just not go home, or go wherever he wanted to meet the cops, then call them back?


Because he was sick of burglaries and other crimes in his community.  I find that admirable.

Too many people just watch crime happen as if it's someone elses problem.
 
2013-05-26 07:03:07 PM  

ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


OF COURSE that's how it happened.  There is no conceivable reason Zimmerman would make up something, its not like hes on the hook for murdering an unarmed kid in cold blood after accosting him on the street for no reason.  TOTALLY believable that he would be telling the truth about a 17 year old kid attacking an armed guy.
 
2013-05-26 07:03:25 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.


"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.
 
2013-05-26 07:03:48 PM  

seadoo2006: LordJiro: seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.

So if I were unarmed, and approached by someone who I KNOW has been following me with unknown intent, who then pulls a gun on me, I should just accept the bullet? Or wait for an explanation, and risk...well, getting shot? Or should I attempt to defend myself?

Please show your evidence that the gun was pulled prior to Martin getting shot.


Well, if the gun were under Zimmerman's shirt, there would be a bullethole in the shirt, right?  And it's really hard to shoot someone in the chest if a gun is holstered.
 
2013-05-26 07:03:58 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Seriously Tatsuma, you're usually smarter than this. The "bus driver assault" never happened (something ten seconds googling would've established), the "burglary tools" were a screwdriver, and it was never established that anything in his locker was stolen property. After that, you've got some tweets. Yup, kid was definitely a menace to society.


Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well

gimmegimme: He was on the way to beating up an armed dude when Zimmerman shot and killed him. Can you at least acknowledge intellectually that Martin could have been afraid and could have been scared in the same way Zimmerman was scared?


Zimmerman only got his gun out once he was on the ground with Martin on top. The reaction to being scared by a man with a gun is not to run toward him, it's to run away while screaming for help.
 
2013-05-26 07:04:24 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme:
Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

I think it's somewhere in the guidelines that when you jump on someone and start bashing their head into the pavement, they'll probably try to shoot you if they can.

What you said makes no sense.  What possible motivation do people have for bringing Martin's online speech into a discussion of his death?


Because it tends to show Trayvon's not a perfect little honor student, as some have contended; if he's involved in violent activity on a regular basis, it's more likely he was at least partly the aggressor the night he got shot.

Is it fair?  debatable...but 'blaming the victim' is an old tactic; used to be very common in rape cases, where the defense would attempt to bring in the victim's past sexual activity as relevant, although that's been curtailed in most jurisdictions.

For me, it comes down to the physical evidence; if GZ's injuries back up his story, he walks.

/glad for once us white devils can stay clear of this brouhaha.
 
2013-05-26 07:04:25 PM  
It hardly seems necessary. He was wearing a hoodie. I've read enough people's comments to know that this fact alone made it OK for George to shoot. By wearing a hoodie, he proclaimed to the world that he was up to no good. He was trying to conce
 
2013-05-26 07:05:02 PM  

ChaosStar: Except he didn't. He lost Martin, was going back to his vehicle, Martin approached him, the spoke for the first time that night and Martin attacked Zimmerman. I would ask why this is so hard for people to comprehend but I know there's a million different stories out there containing a million different, incorrect nuances to the night.


This is the story according to the GUY WHO NEEDS AN EXCUSE FOR WHY HE SHOT AN UNARMED KID.

You're either a moron or a troll.
 
2013-05-26 07:05:09 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: You're going to look good in orange.
I guarantee it.


The same state that put away Casey Anthony?
 
2013-05-26 07:05:24 PM  

quietwalker:
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story


(1) If Trayvon was on top of Martin when he was shot by Zimmerman, why wasn't GZ covered in Martin's blood? If he was lying down on wet ground when he was getting his head bashed in, why was his jacket clean? If Trayvon covered GZ's mouth with his hand to muffle him, why was there no evidence of Zimmerman's saliva or skin cells found on Martin's hand during the autopsy?

(2) The cell phone conversations haven't proved anything other than that George spotted Martin and pursued him (the 911 call), Trayvon noticed that Zimmerman was following him, and tried to get away (call to Trayvon's girlfriend). The phone records don't confirm who started the confrontation or anything after.

(3) Most of the eyewitnesses have admitted that it was too dark to see anything clear enough to be certain, and some eyewitness reports have been inconsistent with what they said at an earlier time.

(4) The medical evidence shows that Trayvon had no injuries on his body aside from the gunshot and an abrasion on his knuckle. Beating the crap out of someone is going to put some wear and tear on the hands of the assailant.

(5) George's version of events have changed multiple times.
 
2013-05-26 07:05:51 PM  

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

OF COURSE that's how it happened.  There is no conceivable reason Zimmerman would make up something, its not like hes on the hook for murdering an unarmed kid in cold blood after accosting him on the street for no reason.  TOTALLY believable that he would be telling the truth about a 17 year old kid attacking an armed guy.


Luckily, in the US, it's innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  Hate to break it to you, but unless you have evidence of these alternate hypotheses, you're SOL.  The evidence and testimony is on Zim's side.  Martin was just a drugged up, thug and got the death all thugs dream about ... getting shot.
 
2013-05-26 07:05:52 PM  
I'm always conflicted when a current psychopath kills a future psychopath.....

Should I be upset that one is gone or should I be upset that one is still around.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:25 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.


I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:25 PM  

gimmegimme: BgJonson79: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

Since there's been no trial, how can you say there's been a murder?

I'm not on the jury.  "Alleged murder."  Happy now?

jayphat: By far I am not a Zimmerman defender. HOWEVER, your article lends zero credence when you use this farking picture.
[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x835]

In all honesty, folks, this happens with just about every crime or every person who dies.  They use a pleasant picture.  We had a guy in high school who died in a car crash while driving the wrong way down a one-way street with no lights on on a suspended license while drunk and high and driving with his knees, etc.  The news and newspaper used his school picture for obvious reasons.  Come on.


Of course. We're all innocent until proven guilty.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:41 PM  

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.


HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."
 
2013-05-26 07:07:01 PM  

seadoo2006: Please show your evidence that the gun was pulled prior to Martin getting shot.


You said this:

seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.

 
2013-05-26 07:07:05 PM  

Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well


So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.
 
2013-05-26 07:07:24 PM  

ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.
 
2013-05-26 07:07:27 PM  

Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.


I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?


It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.


Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.
 
2013-05-26 07:08:15 PM  

LordJiro: ChaosStar: LordJiro: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.

Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.

The man with known power-trip and anger management issues biatching about how "they always get away" is a good start.

You could win an Olympic gold with that leap buddy.
A man has anger management issues, and he complaining that the crooks always get away because police response time is so slow, clearly that means he was stalking Martin through the neighborhood.
What deductive reasoning are you using huh?

Why was he not in his truck after being told he 'didn't need to follow Martin'? Why did he just not go home, or go wherever he wanted to meet the cops, then call them back?


Probably because he doesn't have a means of teleportation. There is only a minute of unknown after Zimmerman hung up with the dispatcher. Some of that minute is assuredly part of the altercation.
 
2013-05-26 07:08:52 PM  

Tatsuma: Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.

I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?

It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.


Why focus on one pe rs on's potential for violence instead of the actual violence that took place that night?
 
2013-05-26 07:08:56 PM  
I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:06 PM  

kortex: I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.


www.marekgayer.com

Or you're psychic.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:14 PM  

kortex: He acted in self defense.


He attacked a teenager and killed him.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:28 PM  

gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?


yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:31 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well

So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.


This is one of the idiots who seriously argued that Martin was probably heading home to make purple drank, while the man with a documented history of anger management issues and power trips totally was totally going to give up the chase and let a perceived "thug" get away.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:41 PM  
PLEASE NOTE:
1. Zimmerman was not told by the police not to follow Martin. He was told by a non-LEO operator "we don't need you to do that".

Please carry on.
 
2013-05-26 07:11:34 PM  

LordJiro: ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.


Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story
 
2013-05-26 07:11:44 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.

I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.


Neither does yours. So why bother?
 
2013-05-26 07:12:24 PM  

Tatsuma: Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead


You're right, its a good thing there's no records of Zimmerman being a violent shiathead, like an arrest for assaulting a police officer. That would be bad.
 
2013-05-26 07:12:43 PM  
kortex: Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody.

We either have an eyewitness here, or someone who can read dead people's minds.
 
2013-05-26 07:12:54 PM  

ChaosStar: LordJiro: ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.

Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirm ...


The case has not gone to trial so nothing has been confirmed yet in a court of law
 
2013-05-26 07:13:05 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


What should we be doing in the white community to reduce abuse of the drug?

LordJiro: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well

So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.

This is one of the idiots who seriously argued that Martin was probably heading home to make purple drank, while the man with a documented history of anger management issues and power trips totally was totally going to give up the chase and let a perceived "thug" get away.


What?!?!?!?!  Why in the world would anyone think there's a racial component to the way pro-Zimmerman folks see the case?
 
2013-05-26 07:13:25 PM  

seadoo2006: IlGreven: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.

Really? Because around here, if you're walking your dog after 11pm, or if you look 'young' and are out after 11pm (curfew), you can expect to be stopped, identified, and questioned as to your reason for being out.  If you don't have a valid reason for breaking curfew, you get a trip home and a summons to juvie court.  I'm 25 and have been stopped several times by the unmarked Cleveland Heights beat cop Grand Marquis'.

I'd say in MOST communities, youths that are walking around at night are going to be assigned a suspicious label and questioned.  I would expect no less from my local police department.  But, see, our PD bans kids from our business districts after 6pm, so I appreciate their concern for the general hoodlums that tend to loiter around.

http://www.clevelandheights.com/index.aspx?page=1004

"In addition, no unsupervised persons under the age of 18 may be on public streets in the Coventry business district, the Cedar Lee business district and the Severance Town Center between the hours of 6:00 pm to 6:00 am."


This was a really interesting read.

Thanks.
 
2013-05-26 07:13:34 PM  

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

OF COURSE that's how it happened.  There is no conceivable reason Zimmerman would make up something, its not like hes on the hook for murdering an unarmed kid in cold blood after accosting him on the street for no reason.  TOTALLY believable that he would be telling the truth about a 17 year old kid attacking an armed guy.


I guess he faked all the evidence that backs up his accounting of the story huh?
Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed when he attacked him, that's why it's called CONCEALED carry.
 
2013-05-26 07:14:08 PM  
Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.
 
2013-05-26 07:14:21 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.



Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth
 
2013-05-26 07:14:26 PM  

tyrajam: PLEASE NOTE:
1. Zimmerman was not told by the police not to follow Martin. He was told by a non-LEO operator "we don't need you to do that".

Please carry on.


It doesn't matter, because according to Zimmerman's fan club, he didn't keep pursuing Martin. And Martin, being a purple drank chuggin' thug (not racist) who was a burglar (despite no evidence of that - again, not racist) approached and confronted Zimmerman even after telling his girlfriend he was trying to get away from Zimmerman, because you know how violent THOSE people are. Not racist.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:02 PM  

Tatsuma: Actually that's false, he had both sprite (well, a variant, it was not iced tea, as reported) and he had skittles (doesn't just have to be Jolly Ranchers) and he has documented discussion about using codeine and drinking purple drank.

Doesn't mean he was high on the night, more likely he went to buy what he needed and was going back home to get high on some sizzurp.


You're making a broad assumptions about what he was going to do with Skittles and Arizona brand Watermelon Punch. Even if Trayvon was going to make "lean" with it, it has nothing to do with what happened, nor does it justify shooting him. Also, if you noticed the rest of my post, "sizzurp" makes you sleepy and giddy, not aggressive. If Martin was actually on "drank" at the time, he would have been too f*cked up to assault anyone, much less run away from them or have a lucid cell phone conversation with his girlfriend.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:05 PM  
Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:05 PM  

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


I disagree.  Zimmerman had turned to violence before, so it stands to reason he would do so again.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:20 PM  

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


Which one are we talking about?
 
2013-05-26 07:15:37 PM  

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


Yes, that's what Zimmerman's fanclub seems to be arguing.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:42 PM  

ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


1) Zimmerman has no witnesses to altercation we do not know who approached who or what was really said

2) You ignore the fact that by Zimmerman chasing Martin for no legal reason after Martin fled from him can be construed as assault under FL law - runnig away indicates fear of harm- so yes Zimmerman did do something to him

3) that actually is a reasonable question to ask someone chasing you for no legal reason

4) Zimmerman should have told him why he had chased him, this possibly would have led Martin not ot fear for his safety

 5) If I confronted someone who was chasing me for no legal reason and they reached into their pocket I would take that as a lethal threat (you know like the cops do) and do everything in my power to neutralize that threat since I feel my life is in danger

Did the persecution hire you to help them make their case?  because you are doing  an awesome job doing so
 
2013-05-26 07:15:42 PM  
How is this even being allowed.  No judge in their right mind would allowed a "She was wearing a short dress" defense in a rape trial.  This is no different.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:43 PM  

ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


or unless you are a jerk.

you looking at me?  you looking at ME???
 
2013-05-26 07:16:25 PM  

ChaosStar: Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
- (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
- (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
- (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
- (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story


None of that actually confirms anything Zimmerman said; it doesn't contradict it, but it leaves plenty of space for alternative events to have happened. Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.
 
2013-05-26 07:16:45 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Giant Clown Shoe: Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.

I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.

Neither does yours. So why bother?


Plenty of the things discussed in this thread are relevant and will come up at the trial.... just not th "only thing that matters" to you.

So... that's why.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:36 PM  

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."


Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:40 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?

Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...


George Zimmerman was a fully licensed 220 General Lines Insurance Agent, which requires a full and thorough civil AND criminal background check. Wonder how Martin would have fared, at age 18, when the authorities went looking into his background for the same check..  BTW, just type FL Insurance agent search into your googlers, and use Zimmerman's name, and you WILL see him.  It's no small thing, that background check, so chill your farked chickens and understand theat Zimmerman had very good character.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:49 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.


What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!
 
2013-05-26 07:17:49 PM  
FuryOfFirestorm: How the media guessed at George's version of events have changed multiple times.

ftfy.

unless you have different versions of a police report with George's differing versions.
 
2013-05-26 07:18:37 PM  

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.


upload.wikimedia.org
www.mckellen.com
iglassbox.site40.net
 
2013-05-26 07:18:57 PM  

AngryDragon: ChaosStar: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

I find the highlighted part above the interesting bit.


That just means the police are racist too.

/everybody knows that
 
2013-05-26 07:19:05 PM  

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.


I believe the word you were looking for was "inevitable". Or possibly "inconceivable", since you seem to be dense.
 
2013-05-26 07:19:48 PM  

Elegy: seadoo2006: IlGreven: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.

Really? Because around here, if you're walking your dog after 11pm, or if you look 'young' and are out after 11pm (curfew), you can expect to be stopped, identified, and questioned as to your reason for being out.  If you don't have a valid reason for breaking curfew, you get a trip home and a summons to juvie court.  I'm 25 and have been stopped several times by the unmarked Cleveland Heights beat cop Grand Marquis'.

I'd say in MOST communities, youths that are walking around at night are going to be assigned a suspicious label and questioned.  I would expect no less from my local police department.  But, see, our PD bans kids from our business districts after 6pm, so I appreciate their ...


I live 2 miles from the Cedar Lee business district and I had no idea about this what-so-ever.
 
2013-05-26 07:19:54 PM  

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable

Inevitable   that TrayvonZimmermanwas going to end his someones life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how or who it was going to happen to.

There fixed it for you
 
2013-05-26 07:20:17 PM  

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."

Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.


Goodness!  You can't find politer rhetoric to communicate that idea?  I like to think you're a normal, rational person instead of trying to be an aggressive thug.
 
2013-05-26 07:20:21 PM  

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


Mayhaps the front of Zimmerman's jacket?
 
2013-05-26 07:20:31 PM  
FloridaFarkTag:

A dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer in Seminole County.....they cannot order you to not do something. A dispatcher could be prosecuted and sent to prison if they mislead that they are law enforcement and they are not

Can be sent to prison for telling a nutter to simmer down.. can not be sent to prison for hunting human game with a gun

I see your viewpoint. i find it strange.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:09 PM  
ChaosStar:

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.

Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.


I defy you to find any evidence known to the public up to now that would in any way confirm any part of this assertion of Zimmerman's.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:23 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: quietwalker:
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

(1) If Trayvon was on top of Martin when he was shot by Zimmerman, why wasn't GZ covered in Martin's blood? If he was lying down on wet ground when he was getting his head bashed in, why was his jacket clean? If Trayvon covered GZ's mouth with his hand to muffle him, why was there no evidence of Zimmerman's saliva or skin cells found on Martin's hand during the autopsy?

(2) The cell phone conversations haven't proved anything other than that George spotted Martin and pursued him (the 911 call), Trayvon noticed that Zimmerman was following him, and tried to get away (call to Trayvon's girlfriend). The phone records don't confirm who started the confrontation or anything after.

(3) Most of the eyewitnesses have admitted that it was too dark to see anything clear enough to be certain, and some eyewitness reports have been inconsistent with what they said at an earlier time.

(4) The medical evidence shows that Trayvon had no injuries on his body aside from the gunshot and an abrasion on his knuckle. Beating the crap out of someone is going to put some wear and tear on the hands of the assailant.

(5) George's version of events have changed multiple times.


I'm sure that there are some minutia that haven't been explained, and I'm aware people have reported evidence on both sides of the murder/self-defense claims which has been of questionable validity.  However, the summary of all this is that much of the information we have - and you present - is irrelevant, non-conclusive, spurious, or due to imperfections in the filter the information passes through before reaching us (the various media, defendant, victim's family, etc)

The only semi-reliable information we have to go on to make any sort of justifiable decision about whether the killing was lawful or not, is that information officially released by police, and the actions they took in regards to it.

All of that information indicates the belief that Zimmerman's story was accurate, and that it was a lawful killing in self-defense.  Anything else is playing junior CSI with not enough information, and nothing but idle speculation.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:34 PM  

tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!



If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:17 PM  

tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.


Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:25 PM  
gimmegimme: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

1) You're a liar and you know it. He was not ordered to say in the car
2) 9-1-1 phone monkeys have no authority to give orders.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:43 PM  
Wolf_Blitzer

Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.

You are completely wrong when it comes to Florida. See the Montijo case before someone else brings it up for the thousandth time.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:47 PM  

gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


How did Zimmerman know about the picture?
 
2013-05-26 07:23:21 PM  

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."

Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.


Except Martin had no reason to do so. At all. It makes precisely ZERO sense that he would circle back after escaping his stalker.

Zimmerman has a documented history of powertripping, anger management issues and violence. Continuing his pursuit after complaining "they always get away" is consistent with that history.

Martin had a history of...being a typical ITG rap fan and smoking pot. Circling back to confront someone who, for all he knew, could have been an undercover cop or a mugger is not consistent with that history.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:24 PM  

gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:31 PM  
Another angry black man unavailable for comment.
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-26 07:24:40 PM  

Warlordtrooper: How is this even being allowed.  No judge in their right mind would allowed a "She was wearing a short dress" defense in a rape trial.  This is no different.


Affirmative Defense.

Not exactly a short dress in a rape trial but his defense team will get more latitude in the more probative that prejudicial question. That's why they declined a "Stand Your Ground" hearing.  They wanted this personal information about Martin in... just like his defenders keep using his 8th grade graduation pic.

Forensics appear to back his story as do witnesses to the time line.  It stands to reason if he told the truth about most of his story he did about the attack.  If you didn't angles of entry and distance from impact would prove him a liar.  It doesn't look like he's a liar.

He's walking.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:57 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth


Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.
 
2013-05-26 07:25:45 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.


So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?
 
2013-05-26 07:26:48 PM  

gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


If you read some other articles, Trayvon Martin was going home to make purple drank, owning a screwdriver while black is proof that you're a burglar, and Facebook pictures are a more accurate judge of character than documented instances of anger management problems and aggression.
 
2013-05-26 07:28:57 PM  

FTFA

In another, he refers to a fistfight with another boy who "snitched" on him.

Ah so in addition to ...
Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession

He had a history of jumping people he feels are "snitching". Who was Zim calling again?
Good riddance dirt bag.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:07 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.


Good point.  Hollywood does encourage a lot of people:

d3gtl9l2a4fn1j.cloudfront.net

2.bp.blogspot.com

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-26 07:29:08 PM  

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


In most cases that is exactly correct. Evidence which does not directly go to "the truth of the matter asserted" is excluded.  And this makes sense. Just because you're a bad guy doesn't mean you should be killed.  But the "self defense" aspect of the case allows much broader evidence... like a case within a case.

I'll bet the prosecutor wishes he had a way to wriggle away from this.  They don't like losers, especially ones where the national and international media will be reporting ever moment of.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:28 PM  

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


LOL.

In seriousness, they really shouldn't be using a 4 year old picture. The difference between 13 and 17 is staggering and is clearly meant to portray a very different individual, i.e. a child. Again, I'm not defending Zimmerman AT ALL. As a responsible journalist though, you need to be slightly more responsible than that.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:45 PM  

Azlefty: ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

1) Zimmerman has no witnesses to altercation we do not know who approached who or what was really said

2) You ignore the fact that by Zimmerman chasing Martin for no legal reason after Martin fled from him can be construed as assault under FL law - runnig away indicates fear of harm- so yes Zimmerman did do something to him

3) that actually is a reasonable question to ask someone chasing you for no legal reason

4) Zimmerman should have told him why he had chased him, this possibly would have led Martin not ot fear for his safety

 5) If I confronted someone who was chasing me for no legal reason and they reached into their pocket I would take that as a lethal threat (you know like the cops do) and do everything in my power to neutralize that threat since I feel my life is in danger

Did the persecution hire you to help them make their case?  because you are doing  an awesome job doing so


1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him.
2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law.
3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person.
4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences.
5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:59 PM  

gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?


Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.
 
2013-05-26 07:31:24 PM  

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


How about one when he was 17? Shouldn't be hard to find one in the facebook era.
 
2013-05-26 07:31:37 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.


The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?
 
2013-05-26 07:31:39 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.


what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.
 
2013-05-26 07:32:35 PM  

Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.


We're all entitled to our opinions.
 
2013-05-26 07:33:19 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


Wow...a tweet is proof of something?
 
2013-05-26 07:33:38 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


I need a team of top DoD scientists to crack that type of communication. Jesus, is that even English?
 
2013-05-26 07:34:09 PM  

kortex: Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.

We're all entitled to our opinions.


Except for Martin.
 
2013-05-26 07:34:31 PM  

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?


You are missing the point of this thread.
The defense is looking to introduce things that will raise a reasonable doubt in the jury.
 
2013-05-26 07:35:08 PM  

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


I guess we know which side of things you come down on?

No but they should use the most recent photos available to most accurately represent him.  It doesn't do any good to be hyperbolic with pics of the young man.  The real pic's will be presented at trial.  And even if you tried to elicit sympathy from the jury pool once they see a broader spectrum of the real young man the "baby picture" strategy could backfire.
 
2013-05-26 07:36:34 PM  

gimmegimme: kortex: I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.

Or you're psychic.


I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel.  Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.  I see it as two people.  A stupid man followed a stupid kid and the kid ended up attacking the man.  It was not right to follow the kid, but it was more wrong for the kid to attack the man.  The man was afraid for his life and shot the kid dead.  To me, even though the man was following the kid, the man is still in the right.  I can follow whoever I want, but I certainly can not attack whoever I want.  Make sense?  Probably not to you.
 
2013-05-26 07:37:09 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.




Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems
 
2013-05-26 07:38:05 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?

I guess we know which side of things you come down on?

No but they should use the most recent photos available to most accurately represent him.  It doesn't do any good to be hyperbolic with pics of the young man.  The real pic's will be presented at trial.  And even if you tried to elicit sympathy from the jury pool once they see a broader spectrum of the real young man the "baby picture" strategy could backfire.


This is really the only part of the story I don't feel snarky about.  What if the family didn't have a school picture of him that was more recent?  I know I didn't have school pictures around his age.  Let's say ZImmerman dressed up as Rambo for Halloween.  I wouldn't want that picture used in the news, either.

tenpoundsofcheese: You are missing the point of this thread.
The defense is looking to introduce things that will raise a reasonable doubt in the jury.


How would a picture of a gun have helped Martin against the real gun that killed him?
 
2013-05-26 07:38:24 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: ChaosStar: Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
- (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
- (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
- (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
- (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

None of that actually confirms anything Zimmerman said; it doesn't contradict it, but it leaves plenty of space for alternative events to have happened. Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.


Agreed, there may have been an alternate series of events, and as you say, he must prove his series of events occurred, not just rely on lack of evidence for alternate events.

To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said.  They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did.  So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him.  It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.

I believe that when this goes to trial, he'll be acquitted.  I see scant justification for any other outcome.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:29 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


Thats all there is, the tweet. If Martin had actually assaulted a bus driver, he would certainly have been punished for it; suspended it or more likely expelled, and probably arrested. That didn't happen: his suspensions were for tardiness, graffitti and possessing a marijuana pipe. And the kid didn't have a juvenile arrest record.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:33 PM  

OnlyM3: FTFA
In another, he refers to a fistfight with another boy who "snitched" on him.
Ah so in addition to ...
Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession

He had a history of jumping people he feels are "snitching". Who was Zim calling again?
Good riddance dirt bag.


Martin had no criminal record. There is no proof that anything you said happened except for him being suspended from school for having a baggie that smelled like pot.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:42 PM  

OnlyM3: Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession


From Wikipedia: The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen. Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[45][46][47][48][49]

Unless you can provide proof of these so-called "assaults" and "weapon possession" (a picture of a gun on his cell phone doesn't count as evidence, especially since we don't see who is holding the weapon), then STFU and quit pulling bullsh*t out of your ass.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:49 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems


Getting shot when they're unarmed?
 
2013-05-26 07:38:50 PM  

ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.

Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.


Well, no, that's not exactly how the Florida justifiable use of force statute works, but the fact remains that under that statute, even if Zimmerman was the aggressor he would have had the right to use deadly force if he reasonably believed that Martin was endangering his life.  We do not know for sure, however, whether Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement (no eyewitness other than Zimmerman has asserted this, AFAIK) or whether the injuries on the back of Zimmerman's head arose from some other cause; furthermore, even assuming that Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement one or more times, we do not know that he was still doing so when he was shot, or whether Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life when he pulled his gun.
 
2013-05-26 07:39:09 PM  

Shirley Ujest: special20: My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.

He should be housed with Jodi Arias.


Youre going to reward him with anal sex with a hot chick???
 
2013-05-26 07:39:24 PM  

ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.

Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.


it comes down to this

An Armed Adult, was stalking an unarmed minor

and the minor ended up dead

then the police let his body sit in the morgue for 3 days as a "Jhon Doe"(note his was a John doe who was carrying ID and cellphone) ,until his mother filled a missing persons

The police in this area have a vested intrest in supporting zimmermans side of the story, being they commented a ton of documented wrong doing in the handling of this case before it came to attention of the general public
 
2013-05-26 07:39:46 PM  
Zimmerman will be acquited and the darkies will go ape-shiat in Sanford.

The end.
 
2013-05-26 07:40:20 PM  

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?


Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.
 
2013-05-26 07:40:32 PM  

gimmegimme: kortex: Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Except for Martin.


He gave his opinion.  He thought it was smart to attack someone else.  Unfortunately, for the world (because we have to hear about it forever), he was up dead wrong.
 
2013-05-26 07:41:29 PM  
LordJiro: Except Martin had no reason to do so. At all. It makes precisely ZERO sense that he would circle back after escaping his stalker.
Zimmerman has a documented history of powertripping, anger management issues and violence. Continuing his pursuit after complaining "they always get away" is consistent with that history.
Martin had a history of...being a typical ITG rap fan and smoking pot. Circling back to confront someone who, for all he knew, could have been an undercover cop or a mugger is not consistent with that history.

Martin would have reason to do so if he felt like he had to prove something or that he was an alpha personality thug.
Said it before, will say it again, when he was told him following Martin wasn't needed he stopped. You can hear it in the tapes.
 
2013-05-26 07:41:49 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.

Thats all there is, the tweet. If Martin had actually assaulted a bus driver, he would certainly have been punished for it; suspended it or more likely expelled, and probably arrested. That didn't happen: his suspensions were for tardiness, graffitti and possessing a marijuana pipe. And the kid didn't have a juvenile arrest record.


Hmmm...I don't have any tweets to back me up, but I do have a different kind of Internet certification to prove that I had a torrid love affair with Kristen Bell.

imageshack.us

I totally made sweet, sweet love to Kristen Bell, right tenpounds?
 
2013-05-26 07:43:01 PM  

tyrajam: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.


Hmmm...if Zimmerman had his "head bashed into the cement," surely he was in the hospital for quite some time, right?
 
2013-05-26 07:43:34 PM  

quietwalker: To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said. They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did. So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him. It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.

I believe that when this goes to trial, he'll be acquitted. I see scant justification for any other outcome.


The initial investigator wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter. My feeling is thats the most likely result here, Zimmerman will be found not guilty of murder but convicted of some variant of manslaughter, he'll do some time, and most people won't be happy. I'll be satisfied; from what I've read I think murder is a stretch but manslaugher is almost a given.
 
2013-05-26 07:43:56 PM  

quietwalker: To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said.  They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did.  So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him.  It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.


*AHEM*

During a bond hearing on April 20, 2012, Investigator Dale Gilbreath testified under oath that he did not know whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fight and that there is no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin confronted him. Gilbreath, however, questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."[204][205][206] Gilbreath was one of two investigators who attested to the facts stated in the probable cause affidavit.

Now you're talking as if you know everything happened exactly as Zimmerman says it is, which means you're just trolling.
 
2013-05-26 07:44:16 PM  

kortex: I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel. Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.


Is the narrative now that since Zimmerman is a Hispanic individual that it is white on black crime?
Why is it not hispanic on black?
 
2013-05-26 07:44:37 PM  
Has anyone figured out which of these Zimmerman-cheering alts is 9beers? I'm off my game today.
 
2013-05-26 07:44:53 PM  
What have I learned?

Don't take Skittles to a gun fight.
 
2013-05-26 07:45:26 PM  
kortex

I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel. Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.

Except not. Zimmerman is as white as Obama...he has one white parent.
 
2013-05-26 07:46:27 PM  

Vectron: What have I learned?

Don't take Skittles to a gun fight.


If you get in a fight, make sure the other person is dead and a minority.
 
2013-05-26 07:47:02 PM  

gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?




No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.
 
2013-05-26 07:47:26 PM  

ongbok: AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.

Anybody with a half of brain would do the same thing and would tell their kids to do the same. If they claim they wouldn't, they are full of shiat.


I used to get accosted by overzealous neighborhood watch people in my neighborhood all the time when I was a teen.  At no point did I ever even remotely consider starting a physical altercation over it.  Would definitely have just ran.

Violence would only lead to a worse situation for everybody involved.  As mr Martin learned the hard way.
 
2013-05-26 07:47:36 PM  

j0e_average: Zimmerman will be acquited and the darkies will go ape-shiat in Sanford.

The end.


Great use of the hyphen after "ape."

Why do people think race is involved in the shooting or the reaction to it?
 
2013-05-26 07:47:52 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: kortex

I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel. Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.

Except not. Zimmerman is as white as Obama...he has one white parent.


He is part hispanic, under most metrics that is with in the heading of "White"

but putting that aside, its not like the Black and Hispanic communities are know for unity
 
2013-05-26 07:48:40 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?

No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.


You're really good at reading the minds of dead people.  Can you ask my grandma where my car keys are?

And don't you mean "blah people?"
 
2013-05-26 07:49:07 PM  

LordJiro: MJMaloney187: mr intrepid: duffblue: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: MJMaloney187: Wait? Does the article say the defense was allowed to use all that? I thought the article said the hearing was next week ...

No, it has yet to be allowed

Some of it will be allowed. This judge will be overturned on appeal if evidence is not allowed and Zimmerman is convicted....esp any evidence showing TM stoned around the time of incident, pot use, and any time the prosecutors spew the "Trayvon was a 14 yr old honor student" BS

It is obvious that the prosecution is in trouble.... they want all the negative Trayvon evidence excluded....you can't lynch an innocent man if you are caught cold busted lying

Just wonder how much of their ghetto the Black Racists gonna burn when they can't lynch Zimmerman...

Ted Nugent isn't black...

You probably aren't old enough to remember the Rodney king riots

The "negative Trayon evidence" might be considered largely irrelevant.  Zimmerman didn't know anything about him, except what happened that night.  And the fact that he lost a fight might serve as a motive for his pursuit and shooting.

You slam the back of my head into the ground, you die. Period. I would rather go to jail if the alternatives are death or mental retardation.

Take your head out of your arse for a second and pretend Zimmerman is your grandfather. What would you want your grandfather to do? That punk lived like a gangster and he died like a gangster. BET ought to give Zimmerman a medal for keeping the brand alive.

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


Zimms dumbo like ears?
 
2013-05-26 07:50:40 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.

Hmmm...if Zimmerman had his "head bashed into the cement," surely he was in the hospital for quite some time, right?


Is your google broke? He was treated and released http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad= r ja&docid=gYd6SG1f3a9KPM&tbnid=ZtF78zeEFOs_TM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjo nathanturley.org%2F2012%2F04%2F20%2Freasonable-doubt-crime-scene-photo s-shows-serious-injury-on-zimmermans-head%2F&ei=gZ-iUf6NEuKsywHruICACA &bvm=bv.47008514,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNEdGQONkYD70BF9OOa3N_rdwnGcJA&ust=136 9698547203540
 
2013-05-26 07:51:58 PM  

gimmegimme: seadoo2006: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

Does that mean I can just walk through your yard anytime, while looking suspicious, and get pissed if anyoen asks me why I'm doing so and if they keep following me after I "try" to leave.  Can I beat up that homeowner for doing so?

Zimmerman didn't own the home.  Your analogy is sillypants.

Besides, you would call 911 and do as you're told.


The 911 operator has no authority to tell you what to do.
 
2013-05-26 07:52:00 PM  
I'm curious is the prosecution will raise the fact that George attended neighborhood watch training sponsored by the Sanford PD. It has previously been reported that he did so, and further that the training in question instructs watchers to not follow or confront suspects. According to George, the two exchanged words while George was sitting in his car, something to the effect of Trayvon asking him what his problem was. And then there's the infamous fact that George left his car to chase after Trayvon. Couple that with the 911 call where George complains that these soandsos always get away. It paints a very clear picture of an angry man acting recklessly.
 
2013-05-26 07:52:26 PM  

Alonjar: overzealous neighborhood watch people


the funny thing is, Zimmerman was not a member of any Neighborhood watch.

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-n ei ghborhood-watch-organization/

and even if he was he violated nearly ever "rule" covering Neighborhood watch groups
 
2013-05-26 07:52:28 PM  

tyrajam: gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.

Hmmm...if Zimmerman had his "head bashed into the cement," surely he was in the hospital for quite some time, right?

Is your google broke? He was treated and released http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad= r ja&docid=gYd6SG1f3a9KPM&tbnid=ZtF78zeEFOs_TM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjo nathanturley.org%2F2012%2F04%2F20%2Freasonable-doubt-crime-scene-photo s-shows-serious-injury-on-zimmermans-head%2F&ei=gZ-iUf6NEuKsywHruICACA &bvm=bv.47008514,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCN ...


"Treated and released"?  Holy shiat, that sounds serious.  How many weeks was he in the hospital?
 
2013-05-26 07:52:53 PM  

gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?

No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.

You're really good at reading the minds of dead people.  Can you ask my grandma where my car keys are?

And don't you mean "blah people?"




Well we do know he backtracked to find Zimmerman. A scared boy doesn't do that. He wanted revenge.
 
2013-05-26 07:53:37 PM  

gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?

No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.

You're really good at reading the minds of dead people.  Can you ask my grandma where my car keys are?

And don't you mean "blah people?"


Can you explain the whole "blah" thing please?
 
2013-05-26 07:53:41 PM  

thenumber5: Alonjar: overzealous neighborhood watch people

the funny thing is, Zimmerman was not a member of any Neighborhood watch.

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-n ei ghborhood-watch-organization/

and even if he was he violated nearly ever "rule" covering Neighborhood watch groups


Zimmerman didn't have time for any rules!  Rules are why "They" always get away!
 
2013-05-26 07:53:42 PM  

FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either


No Limit is a record label. Perhaps he was a fan?

I guess I should be thankful my twitter handle doesn't reflect my love for old school Dre and Snoop Dogg.
 
2013-05-26 07:54:18 PM  

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


lol you're a farking moron.  Yes, lay down, and see if you can hold your head up to 130+ lbs of downward force thats already in motion.

I have a physics experiment for you too.  Lay down flat on your back, just as you described, and have your friend firmly place their index finger... and only their index finger.. directly in the center of your forehead.  Try to over power their finger and stand up without having to roll over.

I'll wait here.
 
2013-05-26 07:55:22 PM  

tirob: ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.

Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.

Well, no, that's not exactly how the Florida justifiable use of force statute works, but the fact remains that under that statute, even if Zimmerman was the aggressor he would have had the right to use deadly force if he reasonably believed that Martin was endangering his life.  We do not know for sure, however, whether Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement (no eyewitness other than Zimmerman has asserted this, AFAIK) o ...




You're correct per:
776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant

I wasn't trying to dive to far into that though, as I find it pretty clear Zimmerman was attacked.
It's pretty clear that the pavement was used, as there was really no other means for Zimmerman getting those wounds to the back of his head.
 
2013-05-26 07:56:37 PM  

ChaosStar: 1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. 2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law. 3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person. 4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences. 5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.


1) No it only backs up parts of it, all we know for the  physical evidence is that Zimmerman chased Martin, got into a fight with Martin and was losing the fight when he shot Martin

2)  Under Florida law it is illegal to "follow: someone if  that creates fear or apprehension, a clear indicator of fear or apprehension is when the  personflees from you, intent isfurther shownwhen you leave your vehicle to continue to follow them, as forZimmerman intent of not catching him there is no indicationthat true, onlyZimmermanword which is very suspect due to hislying about hisfinancestothe  court

3) I am glad you agree that Martin hadevery right to question Zimmerman as to why he was following him that is something areasonable person would ask a thug.

4) Zimmerman had a Chance toreply when Martinconfronted him, yet he admits to being evasive  by saying hehad no problem

5)  NO I wouldn't under  many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm.  even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

I was being "followed" by a stranger in a car
I was  then "followed" by that person who left their car and continued to "follow" me on foot as I fled from them
Rounding a corner and immediately meeting up with them as I tried to flee them,  I asked what  their problem was and they became evasive by saying they did not have one
Which upon answering they reached into their pocket for an object, which due to their preceding actions made me have reasonable fear that  it was a weapon and I was facing imminent harm

Like I said keep it up you are making the  prosecutions case for them, FYI.
 
2013-05-26 07:56:47 PM  

duffblue: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?

No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.

You're really good at reading the minds of dead people.  Can you ask my grandma where my car keys are?

And don't you mean "blah people?"

Can you explain the whole "blah" thing please?


"Blah people" was coined when Rick Santorum, another non-racist, started to complain that he doesn't want government to make "blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah people's" lives better.  He realized he was saying something racist mid-word and tried to correct.
 
2013-05-26 07:58:48 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme: tyrajam: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.

Hmmm...if Zimmerman had his "head bashed into the cement," surely he was in the hospital for quite some time, right?

Is your google broke? He was treated and released http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad= r ja&docid=gYd6SG1f3a9KPM&tbnid=ZtF78zeEFOs_TM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjo nathanturley.org%2F2012%2F04%2F20%2Freasonable-doubt-crime-scene-photo s-shows-serious-injury-on-zimmermans-head%2F&ei=gZ-iUf6NEuKsywHruICACA &bvm=bv.47008514,d.aWc&ps ...


Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.
 
2013-05-26 07:59:01 PM  

j0e_average: Zimmerman will be acquited and the darkies will go ape-shiat in Sanford.

The end.


yup. Itll be rodney king all ovet again.
 
2013-05-26 07:59:11 PM  

j0e_average: Zimmerman will be acquited and the darkies will go ape-shiat in Sanford.

The end.


Bring the noise, I say.
 
2013-05-26 07:59:55 PM  

Dr.Mxyzptlk.: Another angry black man unavailable for comment.


Hes innocent. Its all racism
 
2013-05-26 08:00:02 PM  

tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.


And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.
 
2013-05-26 08:01:04 PM  

tyrajam: Is your google broke? He was treated and released


ORLY?

From ABC News.com: The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work.

From the New York Times: According to a report by another officer, Timothy Smith, the police offered Mr. Zimmerman the chance to be taken to hospital at least three times - at the scene, during the ride to the police station and after arriving at the station - and he declined each time.

Zimmerman didn't get treated by a doctor until after he was released, not before.
 
2013-05-26 08:01:30 PM  

gimmegimme: And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.


So wait.  You're saying martin didnt assault zimmerman?
 
2013-05-26 08:01:56 PM  

thenumber5: Alonjar: overzealous neighborhood watch people

the funny thing is, Zimmerman was not a member of any Neighborhood watch.

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-n ei ghborhood-watch-organization/

and even if he was he violated nearly ever "rule" covering Neighborhood watch groups


I know it's impressively difficult to remain so ignorant of something that has been shoved down Farks throat for over a year, but I'll just leave you with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Background _of_ the_shooting

In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. As the only volunteer, Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival,

Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way and he waited for their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.

Zimmerman had been licensed to carry a firearm since November 2009. In response to Zimmerman's multiple reports regarding a loose Although neighborhood watch volunteers are not encouraged to carry weapons, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee acknowledged that Zimmerman had a legal right to carry his firearm on the night of the shooting.
 
2013-05-26 08:02:01 PM  
OK in English this time:

ChaosStar: 1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. 2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law. 3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person. 4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences. 5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.

1) No it only backs up parts of it, all we know for the physical evidence is that Zimmerman chased Martin, got into a fight with Martin and was losing the fight when he shot Martin

2) Under Florida law it is illegal to "follow" someone if that creates fear or apprehension, a clear indicator of fear or apprehension is when the person flees from you, intent is further shown when you leave your vehicle to continue to follow them, as for Zimmermans intent of not catching him there is no indication of that being true, only Zimmermans word which is very suspect due to his lying about his finances to the court

3) I am glad you agree that Martin hadevery right to question Zimmerman as to why he was following him that is something areasonable person would ask a thug.

4) Zimmerman had a Chance toreply when Martinconfronted him, yet he admits to being evasive by saying hehad no problem

5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

I was being "followed" by a stranger in a car
I was then "followed" by that person who left their car and continued to "follow" me on foot as I fled from them
Rounding a corner and immediately meeting up with them as I tried to flee them, I asked what their problem was and they became evasive by saying they did not have one
Which upon answering they reached into their pocket for an object, which due to their preceding actions made me have reasonable fear that it was a weapon and I was facing imminent harm

Like I said keep it up you are making the prosecutions case for them, FYI
 
2013-05-26 08:02:24 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Well we do know he backtracked to find Zimmerman. A scared boy doesn't do that. He wanted revenge.


We know nothing of the sort. The only things that are confirmed by the evidence are that Zimmerman was following Martin, that he lost sight of him, and that some time later a violent confrontation occurred. Beyond that, we have only Zimmerman's word that he wasn't continuing to pursue Martin, and his account is suspect for obvious reasons.
 
2013-05-26 08:03:53 PM  

gimmegimme: duffblue: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: gimmegimme: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems

Getting shot when they're unarmed?

No. Martin most likey thought he was being "disrespected" by Zimmerman. He figured he would teach that honky a lesson. Expect he got taught not to attack people. Maybe other blacks will see this and learn crime doesn't pay.

You're really good at reading the minds of dead people.  Can you ask my grandma where my car keys are?

And don't you mean "blah people?"

Can you explain the whole "blah" thing please?

"Blah people" was coined when Rick Santorum, another non-racist, started to complain that he doesn't want government to make "blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah people's" lives better.  He realized he was saying something racist mid-word and tried to correct.


I am not sure what he said honestly. Poor choice of words even if he didn't say black people.
 
2013-05-26 08:05:08 PM  

Azlefty: ChaosStar: 1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. 2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law. 3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person. 4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences. 5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.

1) No it only backs up parts of it, all we know for the  physical evidence is that Zimmerman chased Martin, got into a fight with Martin and was losing the fight when he shot Martin

2)  Under Florida law it is illegal to "follow: someone if  that creates fear or apprehension, a clear indicator of fear or apprehension is when the  personflees from you, intent isfurther shownwhen you leave your vehicle to continue to follow them, as forZimmerman intent of not catching him there is no indicationthat true, onlyZimmermanword which is very suspect due to hislying about hisfinancestothe  court

3) I am glad you agree that Martin hadevery right to question Zimmerman as to why he was following him that is something areasonable person would ask a thug.

4) Zimmerman had a Chance toreply when Martinconfronted him, yet he admits to being evasive  by saying hehad no problem

5)  NO I wouldn't under  many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm.  even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

I was being "followed" by a stranger in a car
I was  then "followed" by that person who left their car and continued to "follow" me on foot as I fled from them ...


1. You're a liar
2. You're interpreting the law wrong, as Zimmerman had a legitimate reason to follow Martin.
3. Whatever you say troll
4. So now you expect Zimmerman to explain to a potential robber/assailant his motives when confronted within reaching distance instead of trying to pull out his phone and call the police like he was supposed to? Uh huh.
5. You're forgetting that you approached them, they didn't catch up to you. So you nullified your fear of imminent harm when you purposely walked up to them after they stopped following you.
Thanks for playing
 
2013-05-26 08:06:17 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.


Wow. I even provided you the link and you still won't read what actually happened. Hint: there are pictures in the link. Google Zimmerman injuries images and  tell me more about how his head was not split. You can lead a horse to water...
 
2013-05-26 08:06:32 PM  

thenumber5: Alonjar: overzealous neighborhood watch people

the funny thing is, Zimmerman was not a member of any Neighborhood watch.

http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-n ei ghborhood-watch-organization/

and even if he was he violated nearly ever "rule" covering Neighborhood watch groups


Meh.
Didn't you see the movie "The Watch"?

Besides, you make it sound as if there is a standard set of rules governing all neighborhood watch groups.
 
2013-05-26 08:07:36 PM  
imageshack.us imageshack.us

What somebody who wasn't assaulted might look like.
 
2013-05-26 08:07:42 PM  

MatrixOutsider: The 911 operator has no authority to tell you what to do.


Everyone knows that listening to the 911 Operator and doing what they tell you is for chumps anyway. When my house was on fire, the stupid operator told me to "stop, drop, and roll" when I told her my pants caught fire. Yeah, right - like i'm going to roll on the ground like an idiot and get my designer jeans all dirty! I might have 3rd degree burns all over my butt and genitals now, but at least I showed that stupid ho who's the boss! Stop, drop and roll on my burnt weiner, beeyotch!
 
2013-05-26 08:09:21 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: Mid_mo_mad_man: Well we do know he backtracked to find Zimmerman. A scared boy doesn't do that. He wanted revenge.

We know nothing of the sort. The only things that are confirmed by the evidence are that Zimmerman was following Martin, that he lost sight of him, and that some time later a violent confrontation occurred. Beyond that, we have only Zimmerman's word that he wasn't continuing to pursue Martin, and his account is suspect for obvious reasons.




The injuries to Zimmerman indicate he was attacked from behind. So one of two things happened. One Zimmerman was walking away after confronting the thug and was attacked. Or he was ambushed by the boy. Either way the punk got what was coming to him.
 
2013-05-26 08:09:55 PM  
I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!
 
2013-05-26 08:11:42 PM  

Alonjar: [imageshack.us image 381x510] [imageshack.us image 250x359]

What somebody who wasn't assaulted might look like.


I'd post Martin's photo, but the morgue didn't release it.
 
2013-05-26 08:12:24 PM  

OnlyM3: 1) You're a liar and you know it. He was not ordered to say in the car
2) 9-1-1 phone monkeys have no authority to give orders.


1. That's what I farking remember from an article when all this bullshiat started. Sorry for remembering wrong? Though it seems to have made you very angry.
 
2013-05-26 08:12:54 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: The injuries to Zimmerman indicate he was attacked from behind. So one of two things happened. One Zimmerman was walking away after confronting the thug and was attacked. Or he was ambushed by the boy. Either way the punk got what was coming to him.


A bloody nose means he was attacked from behind? You get that watching CSI?
 
2013-05-26 08:13:11 PM  

Azlefty: OK in English this time:

ChaosStar: 1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. 2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law. 3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person. 4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences. 5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.

1) No it only backs up parts of it, all we know for the physical evidence is that Zimmerman chased Martin, got into a fight with Martin and was losing the fight when he shot Martin

2) Under Florida law it is illegal to "follow" someone if that creates fear or apprehension, a clear indicator of fear or apprehension is when the person flees from you, intent is further shown when you leave your vehicle to continue to follow them, as for Zimmermans intent of not catching him there is no indication of that being true, only Zimmermans word which is very suspect due to his lying about his finances to the court

3) I am glad you agree that Martin hadevery right to question Zimmerman as to why he was following him that is something areasonable person would ask a thug.

4) Zimmerman had a Chance toreply when Martinconfronted him, yet he admits to being evasive by saying hehad no problem

5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

I was being "followed" by a stranger in a car
I was then "followed" by that person who left their car and cont ...


1. You're still lying
2. Zimmerman wasn't chasing Martin, he wasn't running full tilt after him to try and hold him down for the police. He was following, observing, and reporting what he saw to the dispatcher as he suspected Martin of being one of the people that were causing break ins in his neighborhood. There's your indication. This does not break any Florida law, and I challenge you to cite one that it does.
3. You're a tool
4. Yes, because telling Martin he thought he was a hoodlum trying to find a house to break into would really go far to not escalate the situation. Clearly he was trying to be evasive by not straight up telling Martin this and instead answering to the negative.
5. Now you're just making shiat up. Rounding a corner and meeting up with them while fleeing? Zimmerman was going in the opposite direction back to his vehicle, so unless your corner breaks the laws of time and space then you're not going to get away with that one.
 
2013-05-26 08:13:12 PM  

gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.


The one big thing I've learned from your rather "interesting" comments is anyone should feel totally safe attacking you, since even if they jump on you and slam your hear into the sidewalk you apparently feel it's impolite to pull a weapon to defend yourself.
 
2013-05-26 08:13:31 PM  

Azlefty: OK in English this time:

ChaosStar: 1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. 2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law. 3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person. 4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences. 5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.

1) No it only backs up parts of it, all we know for the physical evidence is that Zimmerman chased Martin, got into a fight with Martin and was losing the fight when he shot Martin

2) Under Florida law it is illegal to "follow" someone if that creates fear or apprehension, a clear indicator of fear or apprehension is when the person flees from you, intent is further shown when you leave your vehicle to continue to follow them, as for Zimmermans intent of not catching him there is no indication of that being true, only Zimmermans word which is very suspect due to his lying about his finances to the court

3) I am glad you agree that Martin hadevery right to question Zimmerman as to why he was following him that is something areasonable person would ask a thug.

4) Zimmerman had a Chance toreply when Martinconfronted him, yet he admits to being evasive by saying hehad no problem

5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

I was being "followed" by a stranger in a car
I was then "followed" by that person who left their car and continued to "follow" me on foot as I fled from them
Rounding a corner and immediately meeting up with them as I tried to flee them, I asked what their problem was and they became evasive by saying they did not have one
Which upon answering they reached into their pocket for an object, which due to their preceding actions made me have reasonable fear that it was a weapon and I was facing imminent harm

Like I said keep it up you are making the prosecutions case for them, FYI


If you can find even one mention of Florida officials even talking about Zimmerman and assault or stalking, I'd be interested in reading it. Otherwise most of your assertions seem to be a completely incorrect application of a non applicable law.
 
2013-05-26 08:13:43 PM  
ChaosStar: I wasn't trying to dive to far into that though, as I find it pretty clear Zimmerman was attacked.
It's pretty clear that the pavement was used, as there was really no other means for Zimmerman getting those wounds to the back of his head. 

---

1.  Neither of us knows how the fight started, or why.  When you say that you find it clear that Z was attacked, I sense that you are relying on evidence (Z's statements) that I for one would take with a grain of salt.  There is no eyewitness that I know of who can corroborate a single one of Z's assertions on this point.

2.  I'll buy the idea that Zimmerman's head injuries were caused by the pavement, but I have no way of knowing whether Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement.  I am unaware of any eyewitness who reported seeing this, Zimmerman himself excepted.

3.  Neither of us knows whether Zimmerman pulled his gun because Martin was pounding his head into the pavement, or because he reasonably feared for his life, or for some other reason.  We'll find out, perhaps, at Zimmerman's trial.  Until then, I think that all we're doing is conjecturing.
 
2013-05-26 08:13:46 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Wolf_Blitzer: Mid_mo_mad_man: Well we do know he backtracked to find Zimmerman. A scared boy doesn't do that. He wanted revenge.

We know nothing of the sort. The only things that are confirmed by the evidence are that Zimmerman was following Martin, that he lost sight of him, and that some time later a violent confrontation occurred. Beyond that, we have only Zimmerman's word that he wasn't continuing to pursue Martin, and his account is suspect for obvious reasons.

The injuries to Zimmerman indicate he was attacked from behind. So one of two things happened. One Zimmerman was walking away after confronting the thug and was attacked. Or he was ambushed by the boy. Either way the punk got what was coming to him.


I thought the injuries indicated that Zimmerman got his ass kicked and the back of his head pounded on the cement after he stalked and then accosted Martin with his gun, and Martin stood his ground and tried to defend himself.
 
2013-05-26 08:14:22 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

You are missing the point of this thread.
The defense is looking to introduce things that will raise a reasonable doubt in the jury.



One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).

As more information comes out about this case, it is becoming more & more likely that the state will not be able to find a jury willing to convict Zimmerman on any charges beyond a reasonable doubt. If the state had any common sense, they would drop the case - but they won't due to the media coverage.

Neither party is an angel in this case, but the defense can easily make a case at this point that Trayvon was an individual prone to drug use, criminal activity, and violence - and likely assaulted George Zimmerman the night of the encounter.
 
2013-05-26 08:14:51 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!




Mighty broad brush your painting. While I do own guns I do not back the NRA. I even voted for Obama twice. I just think this is simple self defense. Should not have become a national story
 
2013-05-26 08:15:00 PM  
I honestly don't know why I bother with these threads. Sure, they bring out the racists and crazies, but if I wanted to piss myself off I could go to freerepublic and do it a lot faster.
 
2013-05-26 08:15:59 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!


Are most racists in the habit of defending Hispanics and attacking black... or something?
 
2013-05-26 08:16:44 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!

Mighty broad brush your painting. While I do own guns I do not back the NRA. I even voted for Obama twice. I just think this is simple self defense. Should not have become a national story


Seconded.
 
2013-05-26 08:16:52 PM  

gblive: One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).


Florida also did the same thing with Casey Anthony.  Over charging lost them the case.
 
2013-05-26 08:18:04 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!

 
That's not a safe assumption here. Yes, many of them are racist, but many of them are just utter douchebags living out their macho gunplay fantasies vicariously through this story.


A Terrible Human: 1. That's what I farking remember from an article when all this bullshiat started. Sorry for remembering wrong? Though it seems to have made you very angry.


He wasn't ordered to stay in the car, he was informed, as is SOP, to not engage or follow Martin.

That's kind of the lynchpin in all this. The dickweed stalked the kid around the development for being black which is, apparently, what triggered the altercation in the first place. The scum believe that this isn't a problem, the normal people acknowledge that if you follow someone around for a few miles they might get a little suspicious and you might trigger an incident.

The funny thing is that the tough guys backing Zimmerman are the same idiots who will go all ITG about how if somebody messes with or offends them in any way that a beat down will ensue.

/ but nobody ever accused a person like OnlyM3 of being honest or very bright
 
2013-05-26 08:18:29 PM  

Alonjar: [imageshack.us image 381x510] [imageshack.us image 250x359]

What somebody who wasn't assaulted might look like.


All that mess, and yet none of Zimmerman's hair, skin or blood was found on Martin's body during the autopsy. Obama must have used his Magic Time Machine and got rid of the evidence.

Anyone can easily get those injuries by slamming their head on a pole or the ground.
 
2013-05-26 08:18:30 PM  

gimmegimme: Isn't it sick? These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.


A schadenfreude virgin on Fark?  Unpossible?
 
2013-05-26 08:19:06 PM  
Recipe for the 'lean' version of Purple Drank:  Arizona brand watermelon fruit juice cocktail, Skittles, and prescription cough syrup containing both codeine and promethazine.

Facebook exchange from June 2011 between Martin and a character called "Mackenzie DumbRyte Baksh:

MARTIN: unow a connect for codine?
MACKENZIE: why nubian
MARTIN: to make some more
MACKENZIE: u tawkin bout the pill codeine
MARTIN: no the liquid  its meds. I had it b4
MACKENZIE: hell naw u could just use some robitussin nd soda to make some fire ass lean
MARTIN: codine is a higher dose of dxm
MACKENZIE: I feel u but need a prescription to get it
 
2013-05-26 08:19:14 PM  

ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!


We don't loathe being straight white men, either.
 
2013-05-26 08:20:01 PM  

Alonjar: gblive: One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).

Florida also did the same thing with Casey Anthony.  Over charging lost them the case.



In the Casey Anthony case the prosecution was one of the least effective that I have ever seen.  They seemed to be trying to make a case that Casey Anthony was a bad mother therefore she was a criminal.  The prosecution needed to focus on the evidence in the case which they failed to do.
 
2013-05-26 08:20:05 PM  

AirForceVet: I think the Zimmerman defense team should have gone for a plea deal.

If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too.

The only time something like that happened to me as a teen in Florida, the strange man had a wool cap over his head with eye holes cut into it, holding what appeared to be a small calibar semi-automatic handgun. I just lost $3 that night to the asshat. Called the cops but they couldn't find him, even with a K-9.

/Maybe Zimmerman should have had his gun out.
//Martin would have seen the reall threat that was hidden until too late.


I'm not as badass like most of you here.. for me it depends on how the question is worded. 17 or 37, if some guy came up and introduced himself and ask semi politely in a non threatening manner asked me those questions then I have zero issue complying. I wouldn't go full retard and full kung fu fighting the minute I see him.
 
2013-05-26 08:21:00 PM  

Tatsuma: Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.

I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?

It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.


Okay, I think I have a better idea of where you're coming from now. Thank you for clarifying.

I still think that the character profile Zimmerman's defense is trying to portray is still a bit cloudy, at least in the context in which they're trying to portray it. An item of confusion could be multiple interpretations of the language used in Martin's texts. The term "gangsta," if interpreted as slang, could simply be a display of machismo. As for taking pictures of guns and sharing them with friends, is that all that out of the ordinary for a teenage male? Again, this could just be a desire to display "manly" activities and interests to other young males attempting to find a masculine identity (I admit that I could also be lacking contextual information. If links with evidence showing otherwise exist, they would be appreciated.). Would the gun photos be interpreted differently if these people were white? The "beating a snitch" seemed to refer to getting into a fight with a former friend he felt had betrayed him. Even if he's using gangsta rap slang, this doesn't necessarily mean this is part of some criminal culture instead of a personal feud. As for the stolen property, he could very well be a thief but that doesn't necessarily mean he has the tendencies of a violent criminal. Drug use? Isn't that a bit extreme and just a general demonization of drug users (and pot and codeine at that!) to suggest that they are assumed to start a fight simply because of their lifestyle? Especially when they are not under the influence at the time? That seems too close to a temperance movement argument for my comfort.

Even if we don't question the defense's profile of Martin, the situation is still cloudy. Questionable character doesn't mean that someone can't be the victim of a crime. Violent criminals can be victims of violence. I don't doubt that Zimmerman may have feared for his life, but that still isn't all that great of a defense. His being jumpy seems to be what started the whole thing and this might be a better case for why he shouldn't possess a firearm than a defense of his actions. Even if his version of the events are to be believed (that Martin threw the first blow), couldn't the "fear for one's life" defense also be used to explain Martin's alleged behavior? If an armed stranger appears to be stalking you, couldn't both fight and flight be understandable responses?
 
2013-05-26 08:21:25 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!

Mighty broad brush your painting. While I do own guns I do not back the NRA. I even voted for Obama twice. I just think this is simple self defense. Should not have become a national story


After reading your posts in this thread and many others, you...YOU are going to use the broad brush defense? Wow.
 
2013-05-26 08:21:36 PM  

A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?


because the movie wouldn've ended in 5 minutes! DUH!
 
2013-05-26 08:22:58 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Wolf_Blitzer: Mid_mo_mad_man: Well we do know he backtracked to find Zimmerman. A scared boy doesn't do that. He wanted revenge.

We know nothing of the sort. The only things that are confirmed by the evidence are that Zimmerman was following Martin, that he lost sight of him, and that some time later a violent confrontation occurred. Beyond that, we have only Zimmerman's word that he wasn't continuing to pursue Martin, and his account is suspect for obvious reasons.

The injuries to Zimmerman indicate he was attacked from behind. So one of two things happened. One Zimmerman was walking away after confronting the thug and was attacked. Or he was ambushed by the boy. Either way the punk got what was coming to him.



Or he shot the kid, realized it was going to look bad, and bashed himself a couple times to sell his story. I've known people who did that. Heck, I seem to remember a certain young woman who carved a letter in her cheek to implicate an imaginary Black liberal attacker.

...Or maybe Zimmerman pulled the gun and the kid jumped him to avoid being shot, and Zimmerman got turned around in the course of grappling with Martin before finally popping the kid at close range.

Or maybe you weren't there or know WTF really happened, and should probably not claim anything happened in any definite way, because you're not privy to the details of the case in the same way the police, jury, and involved parties were.
 
2013-05-26 08:23:18 PM  

maggoo: "Look, the kid took pictures of stuff and talked about the exact same stupid shiat every teen boy talks about.  He clearly deserved to be killed."


FTFY.

/My brothers say dumber crap.
 
2013-05-26 08:23:40 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: The injuries to Zimmerman indicate he was attacked from behind. So one of two things happened. One Zimmerman was walking away after confronting the thug and was attacked. Or he was ambushed by the boy. Either way the punk got what was coming to him.


Well then Quincy - you'd be so kind as to provide citations to prove this bullsh*t you pulled out your ass?

Funny, considering that Zimmerman never mentioned being ambushed, and since Martin had him on his back (as he claimed), either Zimmerman flipped like a piece of buttered toast before he hit the ground, or Martin turned him over while assaulting him.
 
2013-05-26 08:24:12 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: I honestly don't know why I bother with these threads. Sure, they bring out the racists and crazies, but if I wanted to piss myself off I could go to freerepublic and do it a lot faster.




So if I don't think every black man is a victim I'm racist? That's racist in it's self. Btw how come we racist are defending the Latino ?
 
2013-05-26 08:24:30 PM  
As I said in the previous thread.

This is for 9Beers, SillyJesus and other Zimmerman apologists:

Yes Zimmerman may have the moral obligation and legal right to confront Martin but in doing so Mr Amateur Night made things more complicated than it really should. This is why we have professionals to deal with this type of situations and Zimmerman is clearly does not have the training or the experience to deal with it. Yes the 911 dispatchers are not LOE but Zimmerman ignored sound advice and common sense and now we have a dead person as a result. One more thing, if you check all of the neighborhood watch committee guide books it'll clearly state you should not confront the perp and you should stay where you are, call the proper authority and watch. BTW neighborhood watch is not law enforcement.
 
2013-05-26 08:24:41 PM  

ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.


So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent break ins-in his neighborhood motivated him to call the police on Trayvon. Zimmerman was thinking of two things when he said "these assholes always get away." Break-ins, and Trayvon Martin. By "these assholes," Zimmerman meant, among others, Trayvon Martin.

4) Zimmerman proved his commitment to confrontation first when he chased Trayvon against Neighborhood Watch protocol. He proved it again when he decided to get out of his vehicle against police advice. He wanted an encounter with Trayvon, and got it.

Note: Trayvon's disregard for the dispatcher's instructions proves his state of mind; he wasn't obliged to obey the dispatcher. But that he didn't demonstrates his commitment to confrontation. He so wanted a confrontation that he disregarded Neighborhood Watch protocol, police advice, and common sense to get one.

5) George Zimmerman knew he could handle a physical confrontation, because he was lethally armed.

Let's weight that against evidence Martin started the fight.

1) Trayvon may have tracked back around after initially seeking to escape the confrontation. But if he did so, we know his purpose wasn't to fight, because he was still carrying his Skittles and Arizona drink. Logic says if he had intended to start a fight, he would have set them down before tracking back. So if Trayvon did turn around, he did so most likely to observe the creepy, angry, cursing suspicious character invading his neighborhood, not start a fight with him.

2) Trayvon had THC in his blood serum. But the tests didn't show when he had smoked marijuana or if he was high at the time Zimmerman confronted him. Moreover, everyone with a lick of experience knows marijuana decreases aggression, not increases it. Thus, the proposition Trayvon was high on marijuana hurts Zimmerman's case rather than helps it.

3) Zimmerman's statements. But Zimmerman isn't a reliable witness. We know that because his pattern of prevarication since the shooting. And, btw, if we prove one lie, that not only further disqualifies Zimmerman's statements, it adds weight to the inference Zimmerman started the fight because it shows consciousness of wrongdoing.

4) Trayvon was a hoodlum with a history of violence. But so is Zimmerman. In fact, Zimmerman has a history of violence against police officers, and he committed his violence as an adult rather than as a juvenile. Hence, if Zimmerman's partisans want to assassinate the dead boy's character, the reality is that Zimmerman is the one with the greater demonstrated character for violence. The "character for violence" argument again undermines Zimmerman's defense, rather than supports it.

That's it. That's the entire case conservatives have put forth for the proposition that Trayvon started the fight. He might have tracked back around, he might have been stoned, and he was troubled. But their principle arguments undermine Zimmerman's case rather than support it.

Now, let's consider a few factors which Undermine the Inference Trayvon started the fight:

1) Trayvon sought to avoid confrontation altogether. We know this because Zimmerman admitted it on the phone.

2) Trayvon was either afraid of Zimmerman, or nonplussed by him. In the version of events Zimmerman gave over the phone, Trayvon fled from him. Because Trayvon was acting lawfully, not in possession of any contraband, we know he wasn't afraid of being caught in any criminal act. Which means Trayvon probably ran because Zimmerman menaced him in some way.

Zimmerman prevaricated on this issue. He later said Trayvon didn't flee, but had rather merrily skipped away. Either way, Zimmerman's own words undermine his own case. If Trayvon was afraid of Zimmerman, he wouldn't have wanted to fight. If Trayvon was nonplussed by Zimmerman, he had no motive to fight. So again, Zimmerman's defense undermines his own case rather than supports it.

3) Trayvon was completely unarmed. He had no special reason to believe he could handle a fight, and no belief he might end up in one. This in contrast to Zimmerman.

4) Trayvon had no motivation to start a fight. None. Any motivation Zimmerman's partisans submit is based entirely on speculation, not on evidence. This in contrast to Zimmerman's motives, which we may infer directly from his own statements on the night of the murder.

All of this adds up to Zimmerman started the fight beyond a reasonable doubt. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't mean "to a moral certainty." It just means that if any cause you have to doubt isn't easily dispatched by logical consideration of the facts. Here, logical examination of the facts easily dispatches all plausible  grounds to believe Zimmerman didn't start the fight.
 
2013-05-26 08:25:03 PM  

thenumber5: then the police let his body sit in the morgue for 3 days as a "Jhon Doe"(note his was a John doe who was carrying ID and cellphone) ,until his mother filled a missing persons


Is this true?  I don't remember that.  Serious question.

The police in this area have a vested intrest in supporting zimmermans side of the story, being they commented a ton of documented wrong doing in the handling of this case before it came to attention of the general public

This, however, I do remember.  There wasn't even a police report filed until the media started asking questions.
 
2013-05-26 08:25:38 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: Btw how come we racist are defending the Latino ?


Because Archie Bunker wasn't available to shoot anybody that day for no real reason?
 
2013-05-26 08:25:47 PM  

Molavian: ZeroCorpse: I just find it to be a funny coincidence-- and surely, it's just a coincidence-- that all the people defending Zimmerman also happen to be the same most-likely white macho-type guys who frequent gun threads babbling about Obama takin' their guns and how the MSM doesn't know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Just a funny coincidence. Surely, the cracker gun nuts aren't also racists?!?!

We don't loathe being straight white men, either.


Good for you. I'm glad you don't loathe yourself. It probably makes it easier when you realize so many other people do it for you.

/Oh, and thanks for assuming I'm 100% white, pale-face.
 
2013-05-26 08:29:01 PM  
Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2013-05-26 08:30:29 PM  

enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]


l.yimg.com
 
2013-05-26 08:30:43 PM  

tyrajam: gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.

Wow. I even provided you the link and you still won't read what actually happened. Hint: there are pictures in the link. Google Zimmerman injuries images and  tell me more about how his head was not split. You can lead a horse to water...


So, if his head was "split open," why didn't George Zimmerman: Mall Cop Wannabe seek appropriate medical attention? If the attack was as vicious as the 9beers fan club likes to claim, the EMTs would have insisted on taking him to the hospital and getting him at least a CT scan. (it looks bad if someone you went on a call for and released died the next day from a brain hemorrhage.)

All the pictures I've seen equate to cuts, scrapes, and a busted nose, consistent with anyone who was popped in the face and knocked on their back onto the driveway.

"Assaulted" =/= started a fight and started losing.
 
2013-05-26 08:31:20 PM  

Farkage: gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.

The one big thing I've learned from your rather "interesting" comments is anyone should feel totally safe attacking you, since even if they jump on you and slam your hear into the sidewalk you apparently feel it's impolite to pull a weapon to defend yourself.


and...is it possible that the gun went off during that fight?  or was it established that Zimmerman pulled the gun, took aim and fired?
 
2013-05-26 08:31:21 PM  

Alonjar: gblive: One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).

Florida also did the same thing with Casey Anthony.  Over charging lost them the case.


And you can thank people like Nancy Grace for that. From day one, Nancy Grace and her ilk were speaking as if the trial were just a formality. The idea that the she wouldn't be convicted of first-degree murder didn't even occur to them, and this is why (I suspect) the prosecutor felt pressured to go after an unattainable charge. The fact that they couldn't even conclusively prove cause of death should have been their first inkling that they were in trouble. It was groupthink, through and through.

As for Zimmerman, I agree that the charge should be manslaughter. His actions are the reason Martin is dead. If he'd stayed in the car, none of this would have happened. However, since it can be argued that at the moment he killed Martin he was defending himself, if the only options are a murder conviction and acquittal, then it's probably going to be acquittal.

That being said, even if he walks out of the courtroom a free man, there's still the civil trial, and I consider the odds very good that he will be found civilly liable for Martin's death. If his legal team has any brains, they'll try to settle. (Assuming he has any money left after the criminal trial.)
 
2013-05-26 08:32:00 PM  
These threads are always amusing.

I can tell which people are children, and which ones are "minorities" and which ones are just plain bleeding hearts.
 
2013-05-26 08:32:41 PM  

MagSeven: enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

[l.yimg.com image 400x300]


At least she doesn't have her finger on the trigger like a f*cking idiot...
 
2013-05-26 08:33:05 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: So if I don't think every black man is a victim I'm racist? That's racist in it's self. Btw how come we racist are defending the Latino ?


Because it's obvious that some folks think there are different levels of "bad races" and they have an order. If a white man Stands His Ground and kills a Latino, the racists will side with the white guy. If a Latino kills a Black guy, the racists will side with the Latino. If a Black guy kills a Native American, the racists will ignore the whole thing and go watch a Jeff Dunham video.
 
2013-05-26 08:33:20 PM  

enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]


I just searched Google for your comments on Fark. They're mostly racist blather so I figure you can be safely ignored and nothing of value would be lost.
 
2013-05-26 08:33:58 PM  

Farkage: MagSeven: enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

[l.yimg.com image 400x300]

At least she doesn't have her finger on the trigger like a f*cking idiot...


That is true.
 
2013-05-26 08:35:08 PM  

Kahabut: These threads are always amusing.

I can tell which people are children, and which ones are "minorities" and which ones are just plain bleeding hearts.


Ah, nice quotation marks, there. That tells us all we need to know about you, too.
 
2013-05-26 08:36:05 PM  

special20: My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.


My goodness you are "Special"
 
2013-05-26 08:37:03 PM  

enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]


Of course having a photo of a gun means you actually possess that gun! Just like all the photos of herpes-infected vaginas on your laptop means you actually possess a herpes-infected vagina!

1/10. You need to step up your troll game, son!
 
2013-05-26 08:38:46 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Farkage: gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.

The one big thing I've learned from your rather "interesting" comments is anyone should feel totally safe attacking you, since even if they jump on you and slam your hear into the sidewalk you apparently feel it's impolite to pull a weapon to defend yourself.

and...is it possible that the gun went off during that fight?  or was it established that Zimmerman pulled the gun, took aim and fired?


Anything is possible except if he was shot from a distance as opposed to point blank range there would be different signs, such as powder burns on Martin.  None of us were there.  With that said, most of what gimmegimme has said is misleading.  Like, for example "he was ordered to stay in the car".  He wasn't.  Period.  He was allowed to follow him by law.  While stupid, classifying it as an "armed pursuit" is laughably inflammatory.
The police weren't going to press charges until the public flipped out thanks to the inflammatory crap the media displayed, and the police LOVE arresting bad guys.  That says a lot.
This shouldn't have been national news to begin with.
 
2013-05-26 08:38:58 PM  

gblive: In the Casey Anthony case the prosecution was one of the least effective that I have ever seen.  They seemed to be trying to make a case that Casey Anthony was a bad mother therefore she was a criminal.  The prosecution needed to focus on the evidence in the case which they failed to do.


They didn't have much actual evidence. There was no definitive cause of death, for one. Since the prosecution couldn't even prove that the child was murdered, proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony murdered her child was pretty much impossible. Their only hope was to make the jury not like her, but the jury made the right call and based their decision on the evidence, not whether Anthony was a scumbag.

Now, I'm not saying Casey Anthony didn't murder her child, I'm just saying that from a legal standpoint, the jury did make the right call. People shouldn't be convicted solely because they suck as human beings or because not everyone likes them (far too many innocent people have been convicted for those reasons.) The standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, and in this case, there was plenty of reasonable doubt. At least for a first-degree murder charge. The jury did the right thing. If Anthony is guilty, it's the prosecution, not the jury, who is to blame.
 
2013-05-26 08:40:09 PM  

bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent brea ...


Nice. But does require a longer attention span than the average Farker's.
 
2013-05-26 08:40:26 PM  

soporific: gblive: In the Casey Anthony case the prosecution was one of the least effective that I have ever seen.  They seemed to be trying to make a case that Casey Anthony was a bad mother therefore she was a criminal.  The prosecution needed to focus on the evidence in the case which they failed to do.

They didn't have much actual evidence. There was no definitive cause of death, for one. Since the prosecution couldn't even prove that the child was murdered, proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony murdered her child was pretty much impossible. Their only hope was to make the jury not like her, but the jury made the right call and based their decision on the evidence, not whether Anthony was a scumbag.

Now, I'm not saying Casey Anthony didn't murder her child, I'm just saying that from a legal standpoint, the jury did make the right call. People shouldn't be convicted solely because they suck as human beings or because not everyone likes them (far too many innocent people have been convicted for those reasons.) The standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, and in this case, there was plenty of reasonable doubt. At least for a first-degree murder charge. The jury did the right thing. If Anthony is guilty, it's the prosecution, not the jury, who is to blame.



Well Stated!   I can only nod in agreement.
 
2013-05-26 08:41:33 PM  

Goldstien Sachs: I'm sorry, if someone approaches me with a gun, I don't try to kick his ass.  I lay down, ask him to call the police, and sort it out.

I don't know what level of ignorance it requires to actively fight someone with a firearm, but this kid was surely under it.


Someone holding a gun at me comes within arms reach, I'm going to try to take him out. Why? You never draw a firearm without intending to use it. At least that is the rule that every gun owner I have known has told me. Never aim it at another person without the intent to kill them. Because if you don't intend to kill them, you might do so accidentally. Thus, even in dealing with responsible gun owners, I know that if they aim a gun at me, they will be shooting me. Only irresponsible gun owners would draw without intending to kill me.

Someone pulls a gun on me, I figure I am a walking dead man anyway. If he or she is stupid enough to get within arms reach before killing me, at least I have a fighting chance if I can knock the gun so it isn't pointed at me. One guy I knew took 16 rounds from an AR-17 and lived after charging someone who had just killed the cashier of the store he was working at. I asked him why he charged like that and he said "Army training." Others I've talked to said the same thing. The idiots who shot up the store had stolen the gun from a local dealer several weeks prior and had already been caught on camera chasing down and killing the manager of another retail store in town before taking the register.

That is my reality. Someone pulls a gun on me, that means it is kill or be killed. One has to assume there is no middle ground.
 
2013-05-26 08:42:17 PM  

bugontherug: But if he did so, we know his purpose wasn't to fight, because he was still carrying his Skittles and Arizona drink. Logic says if he had intended to start a fight, he would have set them down before tracking back. So if Trayvon did turn around, he did so most likely to observe the creepy, angry, cursing suspicious character invading his neighborhood, not start a fight with him.


This is actually pretty crushing to the claim Trayvon backtracked so he could start a fight.
 
2013-05-26 08:42:39 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.


Well, we left THAT possibility behind about ten minutes after Martin was shot, with everyone 110% sure that either Zimmerman is a cold-blooded murderer or Martin was a stone killer out to beat him to death.
 
2013-05-26 08:43:41 PM  
Oh Hai Guys.  Is this the thread where Fark Liberals(TM) conveniently forget that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and that a plausible alternative theory of the crime constitutes the type of reasonable doubt that is supposed to result in an exoneration?
 
2013-05-26 08:44:36 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Mid_mo_mad_man: So if I don't think every black man is a victim I'm racist? That's racist in it's self. Btw how come we racist are defending the Latino ?

Because it's obvious that some folks think there are different levels of "bad races" and they have an order. If a white man Stands His Ground and kills a Latino, the racists will side with the white guy. If a Latino kills a Black guy, the racists will side with the Latino. If a Black guy kills a Native American, the racists will ignore the whole thing and go watch a Jeff Dunham video.




How rampant is black on American Indian violence? I could see it happening among the civilized nations but little else were.
 
2013-05-26 08:44:39 PM  

ginkor: MARTIN: unow a connect for codine?
MACKENZIE: why nubian
MARTIN: to make some more
MACKENZIE: u tawkin bout the pill codeine
MARTIN: no the liquid its meds. I had it b4
MACKENZIE: hell naw u could just use some robitussin nd soda to make some fire ass lean
MARTIN: codine is a higher dose of dxm
MACKENZIE: I feel u but need a prescription to get it


Ah, silly kids! Codeine and the lower plateaus of DXM may have some similar effects, but they are very different drugs. Also, this distinction is important because combining opiates and dissociatives, while an incredible euphoric high, can also be quite dangerous if you don't know how to be careful, especially when the opiate dosage is fairly high (dissociatives tend to alter one's opiate tolerance and this can increase the risk of OD and potential negative side effects such as respiratory depression).
i1243.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-26 08:46:22 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.


George Zimmerman is hispanic, genius.
 
2013-05-26 08:47:31 PM  

tirob: ChaosStar: I wasn't trying to dive to far into that though, as I find it pretty clear Zimmerman was attacked.
It's pretty clear that the pavement was used, as there was really no other means for Zimmerman getting those wounds to the back of his head. 

---

1.  Neither of us knows how the fight started, or why.  When you say that you find it clear that Z was attacked, I sense that you are relying on evidence (Z's statements) that I for one would take with a grain of salt.  There is no eyewitness that I know of who can corroborate a single one of Z's assertions on this point.

2.  I'll buy the idea that Zimmerman's head injuries were caused by the pavement, but I have no way of knowing whether Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement.  I am unaware of any eyewitness who reported seeing this, Zimmerman himself excepted.

3.  Neither of us knows whether Zimmerman pulled his gun because Martin was pounding his head into the pavement, or because he reasonably feared for his life, or for some other reason.  We'll find out, perhaps, at Zimmerman's trial.  Until then, I think that all we're doing is conjecturing.


1. I can make an educated guess that Zimmerman didn't start the fight, having listened to the Zimmerman phone call, his tone and breathing say he wasn't chasing Martin merely following and gave up when prompted to. As Martin had no injuries on him save the entry wound and a scratch on his finger I find it safe to say that Zimmerman wasn't the attacker. You've said already he has a history of violence, so then if he started the fight why was there no injury on Martin? I think Zimmerman would have at least left a bruise somewhere.

2. He didn't have to to be just bashing his head into the concrete. Witnesses say they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman throwing punches "MMA style" whatever that means. Zimmerman's head could have been hitting the concrete with every blow, and that would be a significant amount of force delivered in rapid, sharp, snaps.

3. Well I can't really see him pulling the gun prior to his head hitting the concrete, as I don't think he would have the wounds then? I'm trying to think of any other reason he would pull his gun while being attacked other than thinking his life was in danger but I can't come up with anything plausible.

You're right, we don't know what happened, but putting everything together can paint a decent picture /if/ you use only facts and not the mismatch of stories that went around.
 
2013-05-26 08:48:19 PM  

EvilIguana966: Oh Hai Guys.  Is this the thread where Fark Liberals(TM) conveniently forget that the burden of proof is on the prosecution and that a plausible alternative theory of the crime constitutes the type of reasonable doubt that is supposed to result in an exoneration?


Keyword being "plausible." Zimmerman's claims and those of his partisans are implausible.
 
2013-05-26 08:48:40 PM  

BolloxReader: Someone holding a gun at me comes within arms reach, I'm going to try to take him out. Why? You never draw a firearm without intending to use it. At least that is the rule that every gun owner I have known has told me. Never aim it at another person without the intent to kill them. Because if you don't intend to kill them, you might do so accidentally. Thus, even in dealing with responsible gun owners, I know that if they aim a gun at me, they will be shooting me. Only irresponsible gun owners would draw without intending to kill me.


Yeah, but my bet is that the vast majority of shootings are done by "irresponsible gun owners".

If they were responsible, they won't shoot you.
 
2013-05-26 08:49:58 PM  

LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?


You seem to be confused as the how western court systems work.

The defense does not have to prove 100% down to the position of every atom that their story is the true one.  They have to present a story consistent with the evidence that is feasible enough that a reasonable person might have some doubt regarding the prosecution's story that Zimmerman simply decided he felt like killing someone and set out to do it.

The victim having a history of starting or escalating fights is a pretty good reasonable-doubt-sized hole in the defense's contention that the kid had nothing to do with the initiation or escalation of the fight.
 
2013-05-26 08:50:26 PM  

bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent brea ...


Best post in this thread.
 
2013-05-26 08:51:09 PM  

gblive: Alonjar: gblive: One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).

Florida also did the same thing with Casey Anthony.  Over charging lost them the case.


In the Casey Anthony case the prosecution was one of the least effective that I have ever seen.  They seemed to be trying to make a case that Casey Anthony was a bad mother therefore she was a criminal.  The prosecution needed to focus on the evidence in the case which they failed to do.


You can't get a murder conviction or even a manslaughter conviction if you can't even prove the child's cause of death. That case should never have been prosecuted at all.

As for this one, they went with 2nd degree to give some room for a possible plea deal . Has anyone said if a manslaughter charge is completely off the table? In Texas this year, a man was being tried for murder for shooting his wife, thinking she was an intruder. He was aquitted on the murder charge, but the judge did allow the jury to consider manslaughter, which he was convicted of and sentenced to 5 years.
 
2013-05-26 08:51:37 PM  

Tatsuma: Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.

I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?

It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.


So he was shot for trying to up his street cred by B.S? Derp meet more derp. Teens lie constantly about the "bad" things they've done to impress their peers. I once took on a cougar with a Swiss army knife when I was sixteen. Then when the game warden got sassy I slapped him out with her purse. I deserve to be shot.
True story!
 
2013-05-26 08:52:37 PM  
People are going to have Casey Anthony style shiat fits when Zimmerman walks aren't they?
 
2013-05-26 08:53:58 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The defense does not have to prove 100% down to the position of every atom that their story is the true one.


Neither does the prosecution. There can be some doubt in the jury's mind. But if it isn't a reasonableone, guilt is proven. Zimmerman's own character for violence cancels out Trayvon's. This is a tie, and no inference can be drawn either way.

All of the other evidence says Zimmerman started the fight.
 
2013-05-26 08:54:41 PM  

Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!


This is it right here
 
2013-05-26 08:56:18 PM  

You Cant Explain That: Abox: Imagine a road rage incident where you chase a guy down because what the hell you have a gun, you get into a fight, and you shoot the guy dead because you were losing the fight.  B-b-b-but I was standing my ground!

This is it right here


You know, except for the fact they aren't using the 'Stand your ground' defense...
 
2013-05-26 08:56:43 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-26 08:56:52 PM  
Zimmerman will walk. The prosecution has a thin case to build and has to sell it to twelve people, down to every last detail. The defense needs to sway only one person out of those twelve. (I'm assuming he asked for a jury trial.)
 
2013-05-26 08:59:12 PM  
It pretty much says it all that Zimmerman's peeps are trying desperately to ignore bugontherug's post. It demolishes basically all the arguments that Trayvon started the fight.
 
2013-05-26 09:00:51 PM  

Baz744: It pretty much says it all that Zimmerman's peeps are trying desperately to ignore bugontherug's post. It demolishes basically all the arguments that Trayvon started the fight.


It's less that they're "trying desperately to ignore it," and more that they lack the attention span to digest it.
 
2013-05-26 09:01:13 PM  
One thing I know for sure: If the kid had been packing and blown Zimmerman away in self-defense after being stalked through a dark neighborhood, he'd already be in prison for life.
 
2013-05-26 09:02:18 PM  

bugontherug: Baz744: It pretty much says it all that Zimmerman's peeps are trying desperately to ignore bugontherug's post. It demolishes basically all the arguments that Trayvon started the fight.

It's less that they're "trying desperately to ignore it," and more that they lack the attention span to digest it.


Your jibb, I like the cut of it.
 
2013-05-26 09:03:17 PM  

Nabb1: Zimmerman will walk. The prosecution has a thin case to build and has to sell it to twelve people, down to every last detail. The defense needs to sway only one person out of those twelve. (I'm assuming he asked for a jury trial.)


That's a hung jury. That's neither legally nor morally the same as an acquittal.
 
2013-05-26 09:04:35 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Kahabut: These threads are always amusing.

I can tell which people are children, and which ones are "minorities" and which ones are just plain bleeding hearts.

Ah, nice quotation marks, there. That tells us all we need to know about you, too.


I'm curious just how good you are at this.  So tell me, what does it say about me?

My guess is you are going to miss the mark by a ways, but I'll play fair.  Lets here it.
 
2013-05-26 09:04:41 PM  
I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.
 
2013-05-26 09:05:48 PM  

Baz744: It pretty much says it all that Zimmerman's peeps are trying desperately to ignore bugontherug's post. It demolishes basically all the arguments that Trayvon started the fight.


It's detailed, I'll give it that. Anyone making this some sort of political issue, I tend to regard a little less seriously. If you want to know why this case will go down in flames for the prosecutors, get off FARK and go watch "Rashomon." No one can predict what jurors will do with confidence, and a one claiming they can is either insane or lying.
 
2013-05-26 09:07:05 PM  

bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent brea ...


And that should be the state's closing argument.
 
2013-05-26 09:07:11 PM  

Smackledorfer: I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.


If you believe Zimmerman started a fight while carrying a loaded firearm, that's enough to convict of 2nd degree murder.
 
2013-05-26 09:07:11 PM  

bugontherug: Nabb1: Zimmerman will walk. The prosecution has a thin case to build and has to sell it to twelve people, down to every last detail. The defense needs to sway only one person out of those twelve. (I'm assuming he asked for a jury trial.)

That's a hung jury. That's neither legally nor morally the same as an acquittal.

 
2013-05-26 09:08:31 PM  
Oops. Well, I am sure my legal experience pales to yours, but I can't imagine the prosecutors retrying a case if the jury is hung.
 
2013-05-26 09:09:36 PM  

ongbok: And that should be the state's closing argument.


I'd like to think it's a good first draft. : )

Thank you for the compliment.
 
2013-05-26 09:09:50 PM  

Farkage: tenpoundsofcheese: Farkage: gimmegimme: tyrajam: Yawn. Your trolling has lost its entertainment value. Nobody believes that after your head is split open you should wait for more serious damage to occur before you defend yourself.

And no one believes that if your head is "split open" that a Band-Aid will suffice.

The one big thing I've learned from your rather "interesting" comments is anyone should feel totally safe attacking you, since even if they jump on you and slam your hear into the sidewalk you apparently feel it's impolite to pull a weapon to defend yourself.

and...is it possible that the gun went off during that fight?  or was it established that Zimmerman pulled the gun, took aim and fired?

Anything is possible except if he was shot from a distance as opposed to point blank range there would be different signs, such as powder burns on Martin.  None of us were there.  With that said, most of what gimmegimme has said is misleading.  Like, for example "he was ordered to stay in the car".  He wasn't.  Period.  He was allowed to follow him by law.  While stupid, classifying it as an "armed pursuit" is laughably inflammatory.
The police weren't going to press charges until the public flipped out thanks to the inflammatory crap the media displayed, and the police LOVE arresting bad guys.  That says a lot.
This shouldn't have been national news to begin with.



"A lab report, based on an examination of the two sweatshirts Martin was wearing, found holes and gunshot residue consistent with a "contact shot," meaning the gun was pressed against Martin's chest. An autopsy report said that the gunshot wound indicated he was shot from an "intermediate range," which experts say is between one and 18 inches away."


http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-05-17/politics/35458587_1_t ray von-martin-christopher-serino-autopsy-report
 
2013-05-26 09:10:19 PM  
Humm, 1 dead Floridian and 2 in jail. what's not to like?
 
2013-05-26 09:11:13 PM  

bugontherug: Smackledorfer: I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.

If you believe Zimmerman started a fight while carrying a loaded firearm, that's enough to convict of 2nd degree murder.


I'd love to see the Vegas odds on that statement.
 
2013-05-26 09:11:43 PM  

soporific: Alonjar: gblive: One of the primary reasons that Zimmerman will avoid conviction is because the over-zealous state prosecutor charged with him with murder and is unwilling to consider lesser charges. A more appropriate charge would be manslaughter in this case; murder is obviously an 'over-charging'. If you asked me at this point if the state would be able to assemble a reasonable jury that would convict Zimmerman of manslaughter - I would tell you the probability is about 20% IMO (but this is not the charge the state is pursuing).

Florida also did the same thing with Casey Anthony.  Over charging lost them the case.

And you can thank people like Nancy Grace for that. From day one, Nancy Grace and her ilk were speaking as if the trial were just a formality. The idea that the she wouldn't be convicted of first-degree murder didn't even occur to them, and this is why (I suspect) the prosecutor felt pressured to go after an unattainable charge. The fact that they couldn't even conclusively prove cause of death should have been their first inkling that they were in trouble. It was groupthink, through and through.

As for Zimmerman, I agree that the charge should be manslaughter. His actions are the reason Martin is dead. If he'd stayed in the car, none of this would have happened. However, since it can be argued that at the moment he killed Martin he was defending himself, if the only options are a murder conviction and acquittal, then it's probably going to be acquittal.

That being said, even if he walks out of the courtroom a free man, there's still the civil trial, and I consider the odds very good that he will be found civilly liable for Martin's death. If his legal team has any brains, they'll try to settle. (Assuming he has any money left after the criminal trial.)


Too gaddamn rational, you are.  There is no room for you here.
 
2013-05-26 09:11:57 PM  

ChaosStar: 1. You're still lying
2. Zimmerman wasn't chasing Martin, he wasn't running full tilt after him to try and hold him down for the police. He was following, observing, and reporting what he saw to the dispatcher as he suspected Martin of being one of the people that were causing break ins in his neighborhood. There's your indication. This does not break any Florida law, and I challenge you to cite one that it does.
3. You're a tool
4. Yes, because telling Martin he thought he was a hoodlum trying to find a house to break into would really go far to not escalate the situation. Clearly he was trying to be evasive by not straight up telling Martin this and instead answering to the negative.
5. Now you're just making shiat up. Rounding a corner and meeting up with them while fleeing? Zimmerman was going in the opposite direction back to his vehicle, so unless your corner breaks the laws of time and space then you're not going to get away with that one.



1) Um no you have no clue as to what you are talking about

2) Again No, you keep ignoring that Zimmerman LEFT HIS VEHICLE TO follow him when Martin ran from him this goes beyond follow and observe due to suspicion, paranoia so not an excuse for this sorry

3) yes name calling is an effective way to prove your point

4) Nice projection there, it shows that you have a bias against Martin do to your perceptions, now how did
Zimmerman know he was a thug? Oh that's right according to Zimmerman he was one of "those people"! Also why couldn't Zimmerman when Martin asked if if he had a problem go "yes, we have been having lots of break ins and you are not from the complex, so I was wondering why you were here, are you visiting?

5) Actually we do not know what happened; you are basing it on Zimmermans less than truthful words you claimed that what I said does not constitute self defense I showed you that you were incorrect. Again you are basing your argument on what Zimmerman said and what you think the evidence shows not fact,

Again keep it up you are the best tool the prosecution has.

Remember this is not Stormfront, many of us look at what is and not what some want to be
 
2013-05-26 09:12:42 PM  

bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent brea ...


Wrong, lets break down how you don't know what you're talking about.
1. you're reaching way to far. Revenge? Seriously? That's why he called the cops instead of just running after Martin, tackling him, and beating the crap out of him? Sure buddy.
2. Expressing frustration at police response time being so slow that these "f*cking punks" (seriously, listen to the recording, it's clear as day he says punks and not a racial slur) get away? Yeah, that's totally going into the evidence file that he started the fight.
3. You're just rehashing your second point. Zimmerman didn't even know Martin before this night so if you're somehow trying to infer that he has it out for Martin then you have shot to the top of the ignorant scoreboard.
4. Ah and here's where I know for a fact you don't know what you're talking about. He wasn't acting as part of the watch at the time, he was driving to the store, and he was never advised by police not to get out of his vehicle. In fact he was already on foot when he was talking to the dispatcher.
Note: he didn't disregard the dispatchers instructions cause, as has been pointed out many times above, the dispatcher cannot give instructions. He was told by the dispatcher that he didn't need to follow Martin, and he said ok and stopped.
5. This is just stupid

1. Seriously? Because he didn't set down his drug mixers that's evidence he didn't want to start a fight? Try harder.
2. The medical evidence has already ruled the THC level was low enough that he couldn't have been high when all this went down, not that anyone with common sense is claiming him smoking weed made him attack Zimmerman. Good try at obfuscation though.
3. Really? His "lies" were about money that he held back to help himself live in hiding from people who were doing things like issuing bounties on his life. Yeah, forgive me if I don't condemn a man because he wanted to keep something back to save his neck from the Black Panthers.
4. His "history of violence with police officers" was him shoving a police officer, which was reduced to resisting without violence and then waived when he entered a sobriety program. He was 20 (only three years older than Martin I might add) and alcohol was involved. That's hardly a "greater demonstrated character for violence".

1. Except that he came back
2. Zimmerman was acting lawfully as well, and you're gonna have to cite a source for this "merrily skipped away" horseshiat.
3. Except, as you yourself said, he had a history of violence and was clearly willing to get in a fight
4. Martin wanting to be a "thug" and feeling that Zimmerman was slighting him by following him is motivation enough. What sort of evidence do you want about the thoughts of a dead man?

Beyond a reasonable doubt? Kiddo, you didn't even provide enough to get him charged.
 
2013-05-26 09:13:13 PM  

mittromneysdog: bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset tha ...


Zimmerman was most likely right Trayvon probably had done some break-ins in the neighborhood....just saying....
 
2013-05-26 09:15:45 PM  

Baz744: It pretty much says it all that Zimmerman's peeps are trying desperately to ignore bugontherug's post. It demolishes basically all the arguments that Trayvon started the fight.


not ignoring shiat, but a wall of text like that requires time to reply to proving how most of it is wrong.
 
2013-05-26 09:15:48 PM  

Nabb1: Oops. Well, I am sure my legal experience pales to yours, but I can't imagine the prosecutors retrying a case if the jury is hung.

..

Between you and me, you're the only one who made any confident predictions about jury behavior before now.

But I agree the jury will probably hang. And I agree the state won't retry. But unless Zimmerman prevails on an SYG motion, there's going to be a civil case for this too, to take away all the money Zimmerman's going to try to make off of Trayvon's death. That's a lower standard of proof, and the case that Zimmerman was at least negligent is very strong.

Nabb1: Anyone making this some sort of political issue, I tend to regard a little less seriously.


So your principle response is an ad hominem and simultaneous pretension that this case is totally apolitical.
 
2013-05-26 09:16:21 PM  

AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too


And that would be all he would need, in a court of law, to justify having shot you.

Your Average Witty Fark User: Zimmerman was told to stand down. He didn't.


That is a lie.
 
2013-05-26 09:17:33 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.


according to the guy that stereotyped, judged,convicted,pursued and executed him.
 
2013-05-26 09:18:59 PM  

s2s2s2: AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too

And that would be all he would need, in a court of law, to justify having shot you.

Your Average Witty Fark User: Zimmerman was told to stand down. He didn't.

That is a lie.


911 dispatcher: are you following him?
Zimmerman; yes
911 dispatcher: we don't need you to do that
 
2013-05-26 09:20:27 PM  

bugontherug: Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


This is stupid. Lying on your back, having a friend try to slam your head is not going to yield the same results as a fight for your life situation.
 
2013-05-26 09:20:52 PM  

anindependent: bugontherug: But if he did so, we know his purpose wasn't to fight, because he was still carrying his Skittles and Arizona drink. Logic says if he had intended to start a fight, he would have set them down before tracking back. So if Trayvon did turn around, he did so most likely to observe the creepy, angry, cursing suspicious character invading his neighborhood, not start a fight with him.

This is actually pretty crushing to the claim Trayvon backtracked so he could start a fight.


Yeah, if you're a retard.
 
2013-05-26 09:21:19 PM  

Azlefty: 5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:


Speaking as a professional lethal force instructor, you have this all wrong.  Simply being followed does not raise to the level necessary to use force against a person.  The person must commit a specific articulable action that has the ability to cause immediate harm.  Even if they are walking behind you with a gun or a knife, it still doesn't raise to the level where you can use force against them.  The person would need to attempt to use the weapon against you, or take some other action which would cause you to believe that they are about to use it against you.

Simply being followed does not cross the threshold for the use of force.
 
2013-05-26 09:21:36 PM  
bugontherug:

Nabb1: Anyone making this some sort of political issue, I tend to regard a little less seriously.

So your principle response is an ad hominem and simultaneous pretension that this case is totally apolitical.


People tend to let their emotions get the better of them when they attach politics to analyzing something like this. And, I wasn't predicting what each of those jurors will do with exactitude as much as expressing confidence that the defense has enough to sway one of twelve.
 
2013-05-26 09:21:43 PM  

redmid17: bugontherug: Smackledorfer: I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.

If you believe Zimmerman started a fight while carrying a loaded firearm, that's enough to convict of 2nd degree murder.

I'd love to see the Vegas odds on that statement.


To clarify, I think the jury will hang. But I maintain:

1) there is legally sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman of 2nd degree murder. That term "legally sufficient" is a legal term with a specific meaning. It doesn't mean the jury will convict. It means the jury may permissibly conflict. Unless the judge or an appellate court dismisses for lack of evidence, that means they agree with me.

2) the case against Zimmerman for murder is substantially stronger than the case against Casey Anthony for murder.

3) the "reasonable doubt" standard is an instruction to individual jurors. So if in fact he believes beyond a reasonable doubt Zimmerman started the fight, then he should vote to convict.
 
2013-05-26 09:22:00 PM  

bugontherug: Smackledorfer: I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.

If you believe Zimmerman started a fight while carrying a loaded firearm, that's enough to convict of 2nd degree murder.


I am not sure what I believe happened.

I don't disagree with the plausibility of your events layout, mind you.

What I cannot say is that I have no reasonable doubts on this one.

Fwiw I think zimmerman is a crazy motherfarker, both his history and his statements after the event. I hope I never meet him. But can I convict him with evidence that still allows for trayvon to be the first one to go physical in the confrontation? I cannot.

Neither am I on the jury, where any number of pieces of evidence could be shown to me that the interweb doesn't know about.
 
2013-05-26 09:22:06 PM  

mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.


Whatever man. Still a kid. Plenty of farkers got into brawls as teens. And turned out to be ok adults in the end.
who the hell is zimmerman or anyone else to pass judgment on the kid? What zimmerman can defend himself. But if a black kid does than he is violent and assaultive.

fark you
 
2013-05-26 09:22:17 PM  

KimNorth: Zimmerman was most likely right Trayvon probably had done some break-ins in the neighborhood....just saying....


Probably and maybe are not admissible in court.
 
2013-05-26 09:22:43 PM  

Nabb1: People tend to let their emotions get the better of them when they attach politics to analyzing something like this.


So ad hom number too, coupled with another pretension that this case is wholly apolitical in your mind. Nice.
 
2013-05-26 09:22:55 PM  

redmid17: If you can find even one mention of Florida officials even talking about Zimmerman and assault or stalking, I'd be interested in reading it. Otherwise most of your assertions seem to be a completely incorrect application of a non applicable law.


The prosecutor has questioned why Zimmerman followed him, hence part of the justification for the charges.  As for questioning someone about  assault or stalking beings the reason Martin hit Zimmerman in defense of himself that would need to be Martin and as we know he is unavailable to answer questions. While there may be no charges, if it can be shown to a reasonable person that Zimmerman's actions made Martin fearful of imminent harm -assault- then yes the law is relevant. To many want to ignore the actions that occurred before the face to face confrontation and you can't since they show intent and justification.
 
2013-05-26 09:23:36 PM  

Azlefty: ChaosStar: 1. You're still lying
2. Zimmerman wasn't chasing Martin, he wasn't running full tilt after him to try and hold him down for the police. He was following, observing, and reporting what he saw to the dispatcher as he suspected Martin of being one of the people that were causing break ins in his neighborhood. There's your indication. This does not break any Florida law, and I challenge you to cite one that it does.
3. You're a tool
4. Yes, because telling Martin he thought he was a hoodlum trying to find a house to break into would really go far to not escalate the situation. Clearly he was trying to be evasive by not straight up telling Martin this and instead answering to the negative.
5. Now you're just making shiat up. Rounding a corner and meeting up with them while fleeing? Zimmerman was going in the opposite direction back to his vehicle, so unless your corner breaks the laws of time and space then you're not going to get away with that one.


1) Um no you have no clue as to what you are talking about

2) Again No, you keep ignoring that Zimmerman LEFT HIS VEHICLE TO follow him when Martin ran from him this goes beyond follow and observe due to suspicion, paranoia so not an excuse for this sorry

3) yes name calling is an effective way to prove your point

4) Nice projection there, it shows that you have a bias against Martin do to your perceptions, now how did
Zimmerman know he was a thug? Oh that's right according to Zimmerman he was one of "those people"! Also why couldn't Zimmerman when Martin asked if if he had a problem go "yes, we have been having lots of break ins and you are not from the complex, so I was wondering why you were here, are you visiting?

5) Actually we do not know what happened; you are basing it on Zimmermans less than truthful words you claimed that what I said does not constitute self defense I showed you that you were incorrect. Again you are basing your argument on what Zimmerman said and what you think the evi ...


1. Yes you do, you were lying.
2. No, he did not. He was out of his vehicle watching Martin. He didn't come to a screeching halt, jump out, and start running him down. Ho stopped, got out to watch Martin, and called the non-emergency number for 911. It was only after that Zimmerman followed. Get it right.
3. It's not name calling if it's true.
4. Who said Zimmerman knew he was a thug? Why should Zimmerman have to give Martin any information when Martin walks up and demands to know "have you got a problem"? I doubt very seriously he asked him in a nice, respectful tone of voice and Zimmerman didn't want the situation to escalate so he does what anyone would do who didn't want it to escalate, he answers to the negative in hopes of placating.
5. Someone reaching into their pocket does not constitute a threat of violence to you. End of story. Ask anyone with a cwp, ask anyone who teaches a cwp course, ask a police officer, ask a lawyer. If you attack someone simply for reaching into their pocket because you feel it's a threat, you will be the one subject to arrest.
 
2013-05-26 09:24:57 PM  

Hobodeluxe: s2s2s2: AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too

And that would be all he would need, in a court of law, to justify having shot you.

Your Average Witty Fark User: Zimmerman was told to stand down. He didn't.

That is a lie.

911 dispatcher: are you following him?
Zimmerman; yes
911 dispatcher: we don't need you to do that


Finish it. Your cut and paste is also a lie.
 
2013-05-26 09:25:13 PM  

bugontherug: Nabb1: People tend to let their emotions get the better of them when they attach politics to analyzing something like this.

So ad hom number too, coupled with another pretension that this case is wholly apolitical in your mind. Nice.


I was speaking I general terms, but if you think that shoe fits, then by all means lace it up and wear it. You seem particularly irritated by people who aren't convinced by the case you've laid out. Do you engage opposing counsel or judges with the same hostility?
 
2013-05-26 09:25:14 PM  
Oh and bug, I concur on the civil trial part.
 
2013-05-26 09:25:15 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: kortex: I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel. Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.

Is the narrative now that since Zimmerman is a Hispanic individual that it is white on black crime?
Why is it not hispanic on black?


Because than it ruins the racism angle the media wants to portray it as
 
2013-05-26 09:25:27 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Azlefty: 5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

Speaking as a professional lethal force instructor, you have this all wrong.  Simply being followed does not raise to the level necessary to use force against a person.  The person must commit a specific articulable action that has the ability to cause immediate harm.  Even if they are walking behind you with a gun or a knife, it still doesn't raise to the level where you can use force against them.  The person would need to attempt to use the weapon against you, or take some other action which would cause you to believe that they are about to use it against you.

Simply being followed does not cross the threshold for the use of force.


FFS thank you
 
2013-05-26 09:26:37 PM  

bugontherug: Nabb1: People tend to let their emotions get the better of them when they attach politics to analyzing something like this.

So ad hom number too, coupled with another pretension that this case is wholly apolitical in your mind. Nice.


You don't know what an "ad hom" is do you?  (you can't spell it either apparently)
 
2013-05-26 09:27:07 PM  

Click Click D'oh: Azlefty: 5) NO I wouldn't under many states laws including Florida since I could show by Zimmerman's actions that I felt fear of imminent harm. even here in good old libby lib CA it would be considered justifiable self defense since:

Speaking as a professional lethal force instructor, you have this all wrong.  Simply being followed does not raise to the level necessary to use force against a person.  The person must commit a specific articulable action that has the ability to cause immediate harm.  Even if they are walking behind you with a gun or a knife, it still doesn't raise to the level where you can use force against them.  The person would need to attempt to use the weapon against you, or take some other action which would cause you to believe that they are about to use it against you.

Simply being followed does not cross the threshold for the use of force.


Needs to be quoted again for truth.
 
2013-05-26 09:27:59 PM  

Hobodeluxe: s2s2s2: AirForceVet: If some strange man came up to me when I was 17 in the middle of a Florida night and demanded why I was in my neighborhood, I'd have told him to fark off. If he touched me, I'd have kicked his ass too

And that would be all he would need, in a court of law, to justify having shot you.

Your Average Witty Fark User: Zimmerman was told to stand down. He didn't.

That is a lie.

911 dispatcher: are you following him?
Zimmerman; yes
911 dispatcher: we don't need you to do that


crickets
 
2013-05-26 09:28:25 PM  

Smackledorfer: bugontherug: Smackledorfer: I dont think zim should get found guilty of murder (not nearly enough evidence), but many of the posters defending him are insane.

That is all.

If you believe Zimmerman started a fight while carrying a loaded firearm, that's enough to convict of 2nd degree murder.

I am not sure what I believe happened.

I don't disagree with the plausibility of your events layout, mind you.

What I cannot say is that I have no reasonable doubts on this one.

Fwiw I think zimmerman is a crazy motherfarker, both his history and his statements after the event. I hope I never meet him. But can I convict him with evidence that still allows for trayvon to be the first one to go physical in the confrontation? I cannot.

Neither am I on the jury, where any number of pieces of evidence could be shown to me that the interweb doesn't know about.


Do you think the jury should have convicted OJ Simpson? Because the only disputed fact right now is whether or not Zimmerman started the fight. But in OJ's case, there were a lot more disputed facts. If we applied the standard of evidence people are demanding in this case to every case, we'd practically never convict anyone of anything.

There are almost always alternative interpretations of evidence. But they have to rise to a level of plausibility before they constitute a reasonable doubt. So help me understand what evidence creates a doubt in your mind you regard as reasonable.
 
2013-05-26 09:28:42 PM  

KimNorth: mittromneysdog: bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset tha ...

Zimmerman was most likely right Trayvon probably had done some break-ins in the neighborhood....just saying....


Fine detective work there lou
 
2013-05-26 09:28:45 PM  

ChaosStar: Who said Zimmerman knew he was a thug?


Zimmerman did. he said he was "up to something"  that he was "on drugs" he said he was "acting suspiciously"
he was talking to his girlfriend on the phone walking home in the rain is all he was doing and yet ZImmerman already had him pegged as a dopehead that had committed the burglaries recently in the hood.
he said he was trying to "get away from him" like all the "other assholes" out the back of the neighborhood and he wasn't about to let that happen.
 
2013-05-26 09:31:47 PM  

Hobodeluxe: ChaosStar: Who said Zimmerman knew he was a thug?

Zimmerman did. he said he was "up to something"  that he was "on drugs" he said he was "acting suspiciously"
he was talking to his girlfriend on the phone walking home in the rain is all he was doing and yet ZImmerman already had him pegged as a dopehead that had committed the burglaries recently in the hood.
he said he was trying to "get away from him" like all the "other assholes" out the back of the neighborhood and he wasn't about to let that happen.


Funny story, the kid was a thug, on drugs and talking about illegally getting his hands on a gun.
 
2013-05-26 09:32:28 PM  

ChaosStar: 1. you're reaching way to far. Revenge? Seriously? That's why he called the cops instead of just running after Martin, tackling him, and beating the crap out of him


Yes, revenge. But even if you dismiss that one, you didn't and can't that Zimmerman was mad, and mad a Trayvon personally. Being mad at someone you're convinced is a criminal is a motive to start a fight.

Nabb1: bugontherug: Nabb1: People tend to let their emotions get the better of them when they attach politics to analyzing something like this.

So ad hom number too, coupled with another pretension that this case is wholly apolitical in your mind. Nice.

I was speaking I general terms, but if you think that shoe fits, then by all means lace it up and wear it. You seem particularly irritated by people who aren't convinced by the case you've laid out. Do you engage opposing counsel or judges with the same hostility?


Okay trolly mctrollerson.

*Plonk.*
 
2013-05-26 09:33:04 PM  
911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don't need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman:

George. He ran.

Where is the part that shows he continued following?
 
2013-05-26 09:33:47 PM  

Hobodeluxe: ChaosStar: Who said Zimmerman knew he was a thug?

Zimmerman did. he said he was "up to something"  that he was "on drugs" he said he was "acting suspiciously"
he was talking to his girlfriend on the phone walking home in the rain is all he was doing and yet ZImmerman already had him pegged as a dopehead that had committed the burglaries recently in the hood.
he said he was trying to "get away from him" like all the "other assholes" out the back of the neighborhood and he wasn't about to let that happen.


There is always a possibility that Trayvon Martin was an asshole, you know. I'm not saying Zimmerman was a saint who did nothing wrong, either, but let's be realistic.
 
2013-05-26 09:34:24 PM  

Hobodeluxe: ChaosStar: Who said Zimmerman knew he was a thug?

Zimmerman did. he said he was "up to something"  that he was "on drugs" he said he was "acting suspiciously"
he was talking to his girlfriend on the phone walking home in the rain is all he was doing and yet ZImmerman already had him pegged as a dopehead that had committed the burglaries recently in the hood.
he said he was trying to "get away from him" like all the "other assholes" out the back of the neighborhood and he wasn't about to let that happen.


You love quoting things and leaving out the context don't you?
"Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle. Um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about. "

He said he looks like he's up to something or on drugs.
He never said any of that, you're just trolling.

What he really said:
Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes, they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and make a left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.[Note 3, 3rd picture]
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. shiat, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.