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(New York Daily News)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been given the green light to present the "the victim was an angry black kid, so it's okay that I shot him" defense   (nydailynews.com) divider line 695
    More: Obvious, George Zimmerman, smoke rings, murder trial, Benjamin Crump, Cannabis smoking, Mark O'Mara  
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7123 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-27 03:18:43 AM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.


...white? He's a Jewish hispanic, aka non-white.
 
2013-05-27 03:31:47 AM

cegorach: lantawa: cegorach: planet where you shouldn't be able to stalk and kill people based on the colour of their skin and get away with it by hiding behind the most godawful retarded laws made to shield violent gun owners from the repercussions of their actions.

Well hello, scofflaw racist.......

Considering I am not an American, I can scoff at your backwards-ass murderous laws all I like.

And considering you're the one defending the person who committed murder based on racial profiling activities, your REVERSE RACISM isn't exactly doing much more than playing to the retards in the audience.


As I wrote earlier, you ignorant retard in regards to interpreting American law, but now with more ethical and moral authority than in my earlier post (due to your alien perspective), hello, you ignorant scofflaw racist.
 
2013-05-27 03:33:06 AM

Walter Paisley: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, let's take a survey: whose mind was changed during the course of this 500+ post thread?

This thread has changed my mind on a couple of important points:

-I wasn't sure at first, but now I'm fairly certain that I do require more alcohol if I'm going to continue to pay attention to this thread.
-At first I thought the arguments in the thread were part of a debate, but now they seem more like a disorienting mass of statements in which different Farkers are arguing not with one another, but past one another.


The second case is almost the entire content of fark.

I believe it stems from two things.  People are generally really dumb and don't like to have their beliefs challenged.  Combined with the fact that very few people ever learn the skill of persuasive arguing.  ( I certainly never did)

Then add in conflicting media reports (because why put facts in a media report), and then compound the whole thing with a splash of class warfare and a liberal dose of racist stereotyping.

Although I have a lot of trouble pulling out the race card when a mexican shoots an african, I guess that's just me.
 
2013-05-27 03:53:08 AM

lantawa: cegorach: lantawa: cegorach: planet where you shouldn't be able to stalk and kill people based on the colour of their skin and get away with it by hiding behind the most godawful retarded laws made to shield violent gun owners from the repercussions of their actions.

Well hello, scofflaw racist.......

Considering I am not an American, I can scoff at your backwards-ass murderous laws all I like.

And considering you're the one defending the person who committed murder based on racial profiling activities, your REVERSE RACISM isn't exactly doing much more than playing to the retards in the audience.

As I wrote earlier, you ignorant retard in regards to interpreting American law, but now with more ethical and moral authority than in my earlier post (due to your alien perspective), hello, you ignorant scofflaw racist.


Considering you're cheering alongside Tenpoundsofderp, I'd suggest you rein in that high horse.

Your law is retarded and made to protect the rights of gun owners. This case is a clear example of the abuse it can be put to. God forbid anyone scoff at that.

And pointing out racist behaviour is only racism in the minds of racists such as yourself.

Still waiting for a non-racial-profiling rationale behind Zimmerman's behaviour. If it's as OBVIOUS as you people seem to think, I'm surprised it's taking so long for you to deliver it.
 
2013-05-27 03:59:13 AM

cegorach: lantawa: cegorach: lantawa: cegorach: planet where you shouldn't be able to stalk and kill people based on the colour of their skin and get away with it by hiding behind the most godawful retarded laws made to shield violent gun owners from the repercussions of their actions.

Well hello, scofflaw racist.......

Considering I am not an American, I can scoff at your backwards-ass murderous laws all I like.

And considering you're the one defending the person who committed murder based on racial profiling activities, your REVERSE RACISM isn't exactly doing much more than playing to the retards in the audience.

As I wrote earlier, you ignorant retard in regards to interpreting American law, but now with more ethical and moral authority than in my earlier post (due to your alien perspective), hello, you ignorant scofflaw racist.

Considering you're cheering alongside Tenpoundsofderp, I'd suggest you rein in that high horse.

Your law is retarded and made to protect the rights of gun owners. This case is a clear example of the abuse it can be put to. God forbid anyone scoff at that.

And pointing out racist behaviour is only racism in the minds of racists such as yourself.

Still waiting for a non-racial-profiling rationale behind Zimmerman's behaviour. If it's as OBVIOUS as you people seem to think, I'm surprised it's taking so long for you to deliver it.


NO U? Don't know what time zone you'e in, but hope your life events go well for you. You ARE wrong, yaknow, but why worry about differences of opinion. We're all in this together, and no one gets out alive....
 
2013-05-27 04:02:58 AM

cegorach: Your law is retarded and made to protect the rights of gun owners. This case is a clear example of the abuse it can be put to. God forbid anyone scoff at that.


FYI, the law (and I am assuming you are talking about the much discussed "stand your ground" law) hasn't even been applied as you think it has in this case yet so we don't know how "retarded" it is.  Based upon my understanding of the facts, I don't think it is applicable in this case.  That being said, I don't think there is enough here for a conviction because there simply isn't enough evidence as to what actually occurred that night from what has been publically revealed.  Maybe there is a confession or other damning evidence from the police interviews or investigations that is being closely held, but from what we know, there is reasonable doubt all over this case.  Now that doesn't mean the gun laws in this case are bad (they certainly may be) but if these gun laws don't apply to give the protections you think they are giving under these facts, it really isn't laws themselves at fault, but rather good old human stupidity and poor judgment which results in 99.9% of criminal activites.  Zimmerman may be guilty, but I don't know if there is evidence to prove it.  That is the flaws with the justice system that sometimes the guilty do go free.
 
2013-05-27 04:18:52 AM

cegorach: Or what other suggestions do witnesses or original evidence present?


Where does the evidence not back up Zimmerman's original story that the DA declined to prosecute?
 
2013-05-27 05:33:43 AM

bugontherug: ChaosStar: When Zimmerman lost Martin, any initial altercation was over, meaning Zimmerman's alleged speaking or following Martin is irrelevant. Martin then begins a new altercation by approaching Zimmerman. Martin is the aggressor, Zimmerman feels his life is in danger and utilizes his CCW. This is a textbook self defense scenario, taught in almost every ccp course I've ever seen. Case closed.

So Trayvon tracked back around to go start a fight with Zimmerman... while carrying a bag of Skittles and an Arizona brand drink? That doesn't make sense. Logic says if Trayvon had tracked back around  to start a fight, he would have set down his drink and his Skittles before going. But the drink and the Skittles were found in close proximity to his body. He was carrying them when Zimmerman started the fight, and dropped them so he could defend himself.

"But there's no evidence Zimmerman started the fight."

Wrong. Let's break this down.

Evidence From Which We May Infer Zimmerman Started the Fight:

1) Zimmerman had at least two motives to start a fight. Specifically, his anger at Trayvon, and revenge for the break-ins  in his neighborhood. Both derived from Zimmerman's baseless belief that Trayon had participated in break-ins in his neighborhood.

2) Zimmerman's demeanor proves he was angry. Specifically, his use of expletives to describe Trayvon. Grunting "these assholes always get away," "these farking pcoonks" on a known recorded line with police showed sufficiently strong anger to overcome Zimmerman's sense of decorum. Zimmerman's tone of voice when Trayvon tried to escape the confrontation altogether confirms the inference. Zimmerman was mad. And he was mad at Trayvon.

3) We know Zimmerman believed Trayvon was a criminal, and responsible for the break-ins in his neighborhood. When he said "these assholes always get away," there was no other plausible referent for "these assholes" than those responsible for the break-ins. Zimmerman said at the outset that recent brea ...


Well, i'm glad you stopped calling him the "criminal defendant" to try to make yourself sound smarter than you are.

Your posts are still full of the same horseshiat they've been full of in every other thread about this.

You have no idea what you're talking about.  You're making inferences and ignoring any evidence which is contradictory to your narrative.
 
2013-05-27 05:49:00 AM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Face it guys. Zimmerman tried to be charles bronson and it blew up in his face big time.

his only defence now is the "Iam a great big pus*y" defence.

followed a kid while armed. Picks a fight. Gets beat up. Shoots the kid. Even if trayvon did pick the fight. He was being stalked by an armed stranger. So you cant really blame him.

when did it become ok for someone to pick a fight. Get beat up. Shoot the guy that beat him up and call it self defence?

thats all he has. Iam a great big pus*y that watched to many death wish movies. And boy did I fark up. Have mercy please.


As someone who knows absolutely nothing about this case other than what I have read in this thread (I'm not in the US), your summary strikes me as the most common-sensical, believable explanation of what actually happened.

Another observation I'd like to make is that there is an awful lot of discussion in this thread as to whether it's a 'white on black crime' or whatever you call it - in my mind, what difference does it make? Guy 1 (armed) follows guy 2 (unarmed). There is a confrontation (no witnesses?). Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Loads of unknowns there, yet there are farkers who are just making up shiat to satisfy their own pre-judgement. They have made up their own mind as to what happened, then filled in the blanks to suit their favourite scenario.
 
2013-05-27 06:00:00 AM

luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.


Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.
 
2013-05-27 06:16:14 AM

doglover: luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.


In which case the eye-witness accounts will swing it one way or the other - assuming, of course, that they did actually see how it started and didn't just see the end (and filled in the blanks in their own mind).
 
2013-05-27 06:23:25 AM

doglover: luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.



A beating so severe that Zim Zim did not require any medical attention past a few band aids. Yeah, Martin was really going all Nino Brown on his ass
 
2013-05-27 08:07:27 AM
Someone holds a gun in a photo taken from Martin's cellphone.Hmm. I wonder who that could have been?
 
2013-05-27 08:26:32 AM

ChaosStar: tirob:
1. That doesn't allow him to resort to violence, and gives Zimmerman the stand your ground law to protect him.


No it doesn't, necessarily, but it would explain why Martin might have lashed out, which is something that could influence a jury's decision.

Zimmerman, much to my surprise, did not try to have the case against him dismissed on a Stand Your Ground basis.

There is a Florida case

http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_120

in which the facts appear to me to be effectively on all fours with the Zimmerman case as you appear to me to have reconstructed it.  The defendant in the case, Podany, was able to get the charges against him dropped.  Given this precedent and your understanding of the facts of this case, Zimmerman should theoretically have been able to have the case against him dismissed as well.  Instead, Zimmerman's lawyers decided not even to attempt to get the charges dropped, and elected to go to trial instead.  Given the Podany precedent, it would be actionable malpractice for a criminal defense lawyer *not* to attempt to have a similar criminal charge dismissed unless that defense lawyer had a damn good reason to believe that the evidence in support of dropping the charges had a flaw that was serious enough to warrant bypassing this procedural stage.

ChaosStar: tirob:

2. How else would there be lacerations on the back of his head? There was grass, there was concrete, and the only weapon was a gun.
.

I would surmise that the cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head were caused by the concrete, but I do not know if they were made because Martin slammed Zimmerman's head into the concrete, or because Martin punched Zimmerman's head, which then struck the concrete, or because Zimmerman, in the course of struggling to get away from Martin or of trying to draw his pistol, hit his own head on the concrete.

ChaosStar: 3. Friend how long do you think this fight lasted? Zimmerman ended his phone call with the dispatcher at 7:15pm, the first officer arrived on the scene at 7:17pm.
.

Less than two minutes, apparently.  But we don't know exactly how long.  If Zimmerman hit his head on concrete for the last time at 7:16:10, and if he pulled his gun and shot at 7:16:40, would he have been acting in self-defense?

ChaosStar:

On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions. Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes." The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report.

Who did you say it was that administered this test?
 
2013-05-27 08:33:13 AM
In all likelihood Martin was just standing his ground.
 
2013-05-27 08:34:50 AM

Frederick: So a person with CCW in a notoriously violent neighborhood has no right to self defense? What about cops responding to calls? Clearly bounty hunter as an occupation is right the fark out, in your mind.


Didn't say that.

But I suggest that you do not confront anyone who is stalking you because apparently they can legally shoot you to death.
 
2013-05-27 08:35:31 AM
If Zimmerman plays a race-based defense and manages to stay out of jail, he may win the court decision, but will lose at life.

This will be sort of like using a tight mini-skirt as a rape defense.  It may win your court case but won't end well.
 
2013-05-27 08:35:49 AM

Heliovdrake: In all likelihood Martin was just standing his ground.


Yup ... but he brought his fists to a gun fight.
 
2013-05-27 09:05:00 AM

tirob: On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions. Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes." The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report.

Who did you say it was that administered this test?



According to Wikipedia and all the associated news articles; the Prosecution administered the test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
 
2013-05-27 09:35:30 AM

stoli n coke: doglover: luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.


A beating so severe that Zim Zim did not require any medical attention past a few band aids. Yeah, Martin was really going all Nino Brown on his ass


Have you ever been knocked unconscious? I have twice. Neither time did I need medical attention other than an ice pack. Ever see a boxer's knees buckle during a fight? Now imagine that knee-buckling feeling while you are on your back with someone on top of you. You would absolutely fear for your life without any injury bad enough to need to go to the hospital. Also, Zimmerman DID receive medical attention by the medics on scene. They cleaned his cuts and stopped the bleeding.
What happened in the few minutes between the end of Zimmerman's call and the eyewitness seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman is the only information we don't have. I see no way Zimmerman could have caught up to Martin, as he lost sight of him while still on the phone, and Martin was only 100 feet or so from his Dad's GF's place.
 
2013-05-27 09:45:47 AM

tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:
1. That doesn't allow him to resort to violence, and gives Zimmerman the stand your ground law to protect him.

No it doesn't, necessarily, but it would explain why Martin might have lashed out, which is something that could influence a jury's decision.

Zimmerman, much to my surprise, did not try to have the case against him dismissed on a Stand Your Ground basis.

There is a Florida case

http://tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_120

in which the facts appear to me to be effectively on all fours with the Zimmerman case as you appear to me to have reconstructed it.  The defendant in the case, Podany, was able to get the charges against him dropped.  Given this precedent and your understanding of the facts of this case, Zimmerman should theoretically have been able to have the case against him dismissed as well.  Instead, Zimmerman's lawyers decided not even to attempt to get the charges dropped, and elected to go to trial instead.  Given the Podany precedent, it would be actionable malpractice for a criminal defense lawyer *not* to attempt to have a similar criminal charge dismissed unless that defense lawyer had a damn good reason to believe that the evidence in support of dropping the charges had a flaw that was serious enough to warrant bypassing this procedural stage.

ChaosStar: tirob:

2. How else would there be lacerations on the back of his head? There was grass, there was concrete, and the only weapon was a gun.
.
I would surmise that the cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head were caused by the concrete, but I do not know if they were made because Martin slammed Zimmerman's head into the concrete, or because Martin punched Zimmerman's head, which then struck the concrete, or because Zimmerman, in the course of struggling to get away from Martin or of trying to draw his pistol, hit his own head on the concrete.

ChaosStar: 3. Friend how long do you think this fight lasted? Zimmerman ended his phone call with the dispatcher at 7: ...


1. I can't answer why they declined the stand your ground dismissal chance. I was just as surprised as you. Perhaps they felt that unknown minute of time was significant enough that it would damage them?
2. We know from multiple witnesses that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. I can't really see how one would bash one's own head into the concrete to cause that sort of damage while trying to squirm out from under someone. I think it would have to be done multiple times to get those lacerations.
3. According to Zimmerman, he only pulled his gun after Martin saw it and tried to take it saying "You gonna die tonight". that threat coupled with being beaten on the concrete would justify fear for his life in my opinion.

It doesn't say who administered the test, but the results were released by the prosecution so it was probably done by either and outside consultant for the police department or possibly an FBI agent if they were involved soon enough.
 
2013-05-27 10:16:05 AM

redmid17: s2s2s2: The most relevant of GZ's past actions, are the multiple times he called police regarding suspicious activity and didn't end up in an altercation with the suspects.

That and his arrest for "assaulting a police officer" came when an undercover officer was hassling his buddy (rightfully) about underage drinking in a bar. I don't think it's out of the ordinary to confront someone who appears to be threatening your buddy.


But when they appear to be threatening you, it's not?
 
2013-05-27 10:22:28 AM

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


I'd guess Zimmerman's ears.  Know how I know you've never been in a bar fight?
 
2013-05-27 10:26:46 AM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: mexican bathtub cheese: Not an angry black kid, a violent and assaultive black kid.

Whatever man. Still a kid. Plenty of farkers got into brawls as teens. And turned out to be ok adults in the end.
who the hell is zimmerman or anyone else to pass judgment on the kid? What zimmerman can defend himself. But if a black kid does than he is violent and assaultive.

fark you


As a kid, I got into brawls with other KIDS...not adults.  You fight someone, there's a chance things will escalate; sorry, but that's just the way it is.  And, my opinion doesn't change if Zimmerman was black and being punched by some Latino wannabe gangbanger.
 
2013-05-27 10:33:18 AM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Like I said guys. No matter who started what. None of this would have happend had george not acted like a loon and followed a stranger. He is not nor was he ever a cop.
had he stayed on the phone with 911 and stayed in his car. None of this would have happend.

so regardless of however they want to portray these events.
a kid is dead. George killed him. And none of this would have happend in the first place had george acted like an adult. Instead of a teenager with a vigilante fantasy.

All he had to do was stay on the phone. Thats it. And none of this would have happend


Of course, if you turn that around, all Trayvon had to do was not punch a guy carrying a gun...
 
2013-05-27 10:36:39 AM

Clark W Griswald: Tatsuma: Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.

I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?

It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.

So he was shot for trying to up his street cred by B.S? Derp meet more derp. Teens lie constantly about the "bad" things they've done to impress their peers. I once took on a cougar with a Swiss army knife when I was sixteen. Then when the game warden got sassy I slapped him out with her purse. I deserve to be shot.
True story!


You may not DESERVE to be shot, but if you're later killed by a game warden under suspicious circumstances, people ARE going to look at your earlier story askance.  And that might be enough to get your killer acquitted.

It's kinda like crying wolf...
 
2013-05-27 10:43:17 AM

stoli n coke: doglover: luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.


A beating so severe that Zim Zim did not require any medical attention past a few band aids. Yeah, Martin was really going all Nino Brown on his ass


No rational self-defense rule is going to require you to let your opponent give you a concussion BEFORE you defend yourself...it's too late at that point.
 
2013-05-27 10:48:18 AM

Oh_Enough_Already: Where's the Fark thread filled with outrage about the innocent white folks killed by gun-toting black thugs?

Oh, right, silly me, this is Fark, that thread would be "racist."


Oh, please...we had that thread a few months back where the old white Florida dude unloaded on the two punks trying to rob an internet cafe.

I don't recall a lot of people defending the punks...most of us were biatching that the old dude only winged them  :)
 
2013-05-27 10:51:38 AM

x1v16: 2012

[s17.postimg.org image 384x480]

2013

[s3.postimg.org image 619x800]


I suppose anyone who is charged with murder would be stressed enough to eat but damn.


Heh...maybe he killed Trayvon because he was hungry...
 
2013-05-27 10:53:33 AM

Farking Canuck: Personally I think it is sad that Zimmerman stalked and killed a 17 year old kid because he "looked suspicious" (i.e. black).

I also think that a 17 year-old talking tough in texts is far from surprising and is evidence of absolutely nothing ... including what is claimed in the texts. Teenagers talk shiat all the time.


Yes, they do.  So do adults.

Sometimes, talking shiat will bite you in the ass.

Is that fair?  maybe not, but it's NOT going to change, no matter what color you are.
 
2013-05-27 11:45:00 AM

ChaosStar: tirob:


1. I can't answer why they declined the stand your ground dismissal chance. I was just as surprised as you. Perhaps they felt that unknown minute of time was significant enough that it would damage them?
---

That would be my guess.  And I would add that none of us except Zimmerman knows for sure what went on during that critical minute.

***
2. We know from multiple witnesses that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. I can't really see how one would bash one's own head into the concrete to cause that sort of damage while trying to squirm out from under someone. I think it would have to be done multiple times to get those lacerations.

---

Are you a forensic pathologist or at least an MD?

***

3. According to Zimmerman, he only pulled his gun after Martin saw it and tried to take it saying "You gonna die tonight". that threat coupled with being beaten on the concrete would justify fear for his life in my opinion.

---

It would in my opinion, too, if that is actually what happened.  But I'll remind you that you are relying on double-decker hearsay from the defendant's father.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/29/10912176-george-zimmerman s- dad-says-travyon-told-his-son-youre-gonna-die-now?lite

***

gblive: tirob: On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions. Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes." The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report.

Who did you say it was that administered this test?


According to Wikipedia and all the associated news articles; the Prosecution administered the test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin


Sanford Police Department at the request of Detective Chris Serino.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-42 13 95

Zimmerman took the test without a lawyer present, too, apparently.  It's evidence in Zimmerman's favor, I concede.
 
2013-05-27 12:35:29 PM

stoli n coke: Zim did not require any medical attention past a few band aids.


Seeing as how I've provided you with evidence to the contrary in a previous thread, you are lying.
 
2013-05-27 01:36:42 PM

tirob: Sanford Police Department at the request of Detective Chris Serino.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-42 13 95

Zimmerman took the test without a lawyer present, too, apparently. It's evidence in Zimmerman's favor, I concede.


UNfortunately for Zimmerman, "lie detector" tests are fake fake fake fake bullshiat.  Why aren't we talking more about his silly interview with silly Sean Hannity?

//Thanks for the TF sponsorship, friend!  (I'll leave you anonymous.)
 
2013-05-27 01:44:50 PM

People_are_Idiots: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well, the rest of us are free to publicize the George Zimmerman is trigger-happy racist that killed a black kid for daring to walk through a white neighborhood.

...white? He's a Jewish hispanic, aka non-white.


Us white devils are quite happy to sit this one out, thank you very much.
 
2013-05-27 02:07:15 PM

gimmegimme: tirob: Sanford Police Department at the request of Detective Chris Serino.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-42 13 95

Zimmerman took the test without a lawyer present, too, apparently. It's evidence in Zimmerman's favor, I concede.

UNfortunately for Zimmerman, "lie detector" tests are fake fake fake fake bullshiat.  Why aren't we talking more about his silly interview with silly Sean Hannity?

//Thanks for the TF sponsorship, friend!  (I'll leave you anonymous.)


The lie detectors in lie detector tests are the test administrators, not the needles and the paper.  I wrote that Zimmerman's willingness to take the test without a lawyer present, and his passing it, are evidence in his favor.  Not conclusive evidence, however; not by a longshot.

I don't know who sponsored you for TF.  Wasn't me--I'm not a TFer.
 
2013-05-27 02:16:25 PM

ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.

No sir.  Those are signs that he was on the losing end of a fight.  A gun may make you feel tough but it doesn't make you tough.

The gun certainly made Martin a lot weaker didn't it? It's a force multiplier so, yeah, it does make you tougher in that you can use it to walk away from a situation that an unarmed person wouldn't live through.

Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.


It's cute you're so deluded
 
2013-05-27 02:18:03 PM

IlGreven: redmid17: s2s2s2: The most relevant of GZ's past actions, are the multiple times he called police regarding suspicious activity and didn't end up in an altercation with the suspects.

That and his arrest for "assaulting a police officer" came when an undercover officer was hassling his buddy (rightfully) about underage drinking in a bar. I don't think it's out of the ordinary to confront someone who appears to be threatening your buddy.

But when they appear to be threatening you, it's not?


www.lolwut.com
 
2013-05-27 02:18:34 PM

tirob: gimmegimme: tirob: Sanford Police Department at the request of Detective Chris Serino.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/george-zimmerman-lie-detector-42 13 95

Zimmerman took the test without a lawyer present, too, apparently. It's evidence in Zimmerman's favor, I concede.

UNfortunately for Zimmerman, "lie detector" tests are fake fake fake fake bullshiat.  Why aren't we talking more about his silly interview with silly Sean Hannity?

//Thanks for the TF sponsorship, friend!  (I'll leave you anonymous.)

The lie detectors in lie detector tests are the test administrators, not the needles and the paper.  I wrote that Zimmerman's willingness to take the test without a lawyer present, and his passing it, are evidence in his favor.  Not conclusive evidence, however; not by a longshot.

I don't know who sponsored you for TF.  Wasn't me--I'm not a TFer.


Sorry; I meant the slashie comment for the general thread.  I put no truck in lie detector tests, the machines or those who administer them.
 
2013-05-27 02:23:48 PM

machodonkeywrestler: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Zimmerman then suffers a broken nose, injured head, and shows signs he was struggling while on his back. These are all signs of being the victim, not the aggressor.

No sir.  Those are signs that he was on the losing end of a fight.  A gun may make you feel tough but it doesn't make you tough.

The gun certainly made Martin a lot weaker didn't it? It's a force multiplier so, yeah, it does make you tougher in that you can use it to walk away from a situation that an unarmed person wouldn't live through.

Being on the losing side of a fight, where you're getting your head bashed open, is grounds for escalation of force when defending yourself, as you are in fear for your life. Especially when you didn't start said fight.

It's cute you're so deluded


IIt's cute when you think you understand things which someone will eventually have to explain to you with a picture book:

Greyston Garcia, 25, "was well within his rights" when he chased a man accused of stealing his car radio and stabbed the man to death, the judge ruled. The Miami policeman who supervised the case was stunned.
But in Greyston Garcia's case, a judge disagreed. Garcia chased the alleged car-radio thief -- Pedro Roteta, 26 -- for more than a block, theHerald reports. Roteta, carrying a four-pound bag of car radios, swung the bag at Garcia's head; Garcia blocked the bag with one hand and stabbed Roteta in the chest.

Roteta's swinging of the bag could have caused serious bodily injury or death, and placed Garcia in fear for his life, the judge wrote
.


Even better:


Still, after the fatal stabbing, Garcia did not call 911. Instead, he hid the knife and sold two of Roteta's car radios, then initially denied the killing when interviewed by police. None of those facts played into the judge's decision.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-you r- ground-stabbing.html

If this guy gets his charge thrown out of court, I have a hard time believing ZImmerman is going to be found guilty, whether that's right, wrong or farked up in one's view.
 
2013-05-27 03:09:33 PM
The entire incident happened because Zimmerman saw a black teen walking down the street and immediately thought he was responsible for some break-ins that had occurred previously. If he had minded his own business and not pronounced guilt on a complete stranger then none of this would have happened.
 
2013-05-27 03:21:13 PM
redmid17:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-you r- ground-stabbing.html

If this guy gets his charge thrown out of court, I have a hard time ...


Interesting case, and on point, but probably not relevant now that Zimmerman's lawyers have elected to waive a Stand Your Ground hearing and go directly to trial.
 
2013-05-27 03:59:00 PM

tirob: redmid17:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-you r- ground-stabbing.html

If this guy gets his charge thrown out of court, I have a hard time ...

Interesting case, and on point, but probably not relevant now that Zimmerman's lawyers have elected to waive a Stand Your Ground hearing and go directly to trial.


Well the lawyers saying nothing prevented them from invoking the hearing after the trial, i might agree.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/justice/florida-zimmerman-defense
 
2013-05-27 04:11:44 PM

PunGent: stoli n coke: doglover: luckyeddie: Guy 2 kicks guy 1's ass. Guy 1 draws his concealed weapon and kills guy 2.

Actually, according to the witnesses and police reports, it's more like Guy 2 pins Guy 1 on the ground and starts trying to beat his head in.


A beating so severe that Zim Zim did not require any medical attention past a few band aids. Yeah, Martin was really going all Nino Brown on his ass

No rational self-defense rule is going to require you to let your opponent give you a concussion BEFORE you defend yourself...it's too late at that point.


If you got your head slammed against the pavement multiple times, you would get checked out afterwards for a concussion. Many times, EMTs would insist on it, since it looks bad if someone they release dies in their sleep the next day.
Unless the injuries were not as violent as Zimmerman's white knights want to make it out to be.
 
2013-05-27 04:19:04 PM

MagSeven: enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

[l.yimg.com image 400x300]


At least that girl's got good trigger discipline. Unlike thug-von, she's been trained in the safe handling of firearms.
 
2013-05-27 04:22:19 PM

enik: MagSeven: enik: Awww what a good little boy who looks like Obama's son. He's obviously not a thug :-(

[i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

[l.yimg.com image 400x300]

At least that girl's got good trigger discipline. Unlike thug-von, she's been trained in the safe handling of firearms.


?  Trayvon was unarmed when he was shot in cold blood by a man who clearly stated that he has no regrets over killing an unarmed 17-year-old who was heading home to watch some basketball.
 
2013-05-27 05:00:47 PM
www.judiciaryreport.com
ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com
i.usatoday.net
sfbayview.com
cache.blippitt.com
www.news10.net
2.bp.blogspot.com
i2.cdn.turner.com
YEAH,what a real hardened "gangsta thug"  might look like.

more likely
s1.ibtimes.com
 
2013-05-27 05:10:54 PM

redmid17: tirob: redmid17:
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-you r- ground-stabbing.html

If this guy gets his charge thrown out of court, I have a hard time ...

Interesting case, and on point, but probably not relevant now that Zimmerman's lawyers have elected to waive a Stand Your Ground hearing and go directly to trial.

Well the lawyers saying nothing prevented them from invoking the hearing after the trial, i might agree.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/justice/florida-zimmerman-defense


Interesting possibility, though apparently without legal precedent in Florida.  I suppose that going for a SYG dismissal after an acquittal might help Zimmerman in that it would prevent Martin's parents from filing a civil wrongful death suit.  I don't think the judge exists, however, who would grant a SYG dismissal after a conviction.  I know that if I were the judge in such a case, my first question to O'Mara would be, "If you think that your client deserves a dismissal as a matter of law, why did you waive a SYG hearing before trial and ask a jury to try your client's case on the facts?"
 
2013-05-27 05:12:37 PM

Alt_Login: [www.judiciaryreport.com image 600x450]
[ionenewsone.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]
[i.usatoday.net image 490x360]
[sfbayview.com image 231x313]
[cache.blippitt.com image 360x270]
[www.news10.net image 300x169]
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 642x433]
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 416x234]
YEAH,what a real hardened "gangsta thug"  might look like.

more likely
[s1.ibtimes.com image 660x994]


Jesus, Zimmerman looks terrible in the last photo.  Look at all that blood!  What did he do, get his face caught in a wood chipper?  I hope whoever did that permanent damage to him was punished.
 
2013-05-27 05:18:41 PM
unfortunately, the little boy who gave him the scratch on the nose was murdered in cold blood for his efforts.
 
2013-05-27 05:26:21 PM

stoli n coke: If you got your head slammed against the pavement multiple times, you would get checked out afterwards for a concussion. Many times, EMTs would insist on it, since it looks bad if someone they release dies in their sleep the next day.
Unless the injuries were not as violent as Zimmerman's white knights want to make it out to be.


Why are you still lying about this?
 
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