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(New York Daily News)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been given the green light to present the "the victim was an angry black kid, so it's okay that I shot him" defense   (nydailynews.com) divider line 695
    More: Obvious, George Zimmerman, smoke rings, murder trial, Benjamin Crump, Cannabis smoking, Mark O'Mara  
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7125 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 07:20:21 PM

bugontherug: AngryDragon: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

Nobody saw Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk.

Try an experiment. Get a nice, soft pad, maybe a pillow, and a friend.

Lay flat on your back, and have your friend straddle you at the waist. Then have him try to "slam" your head back into the soft padding. Remind him that he's not allowed to pull your hair, because Zimmerman's head was shaved.

Without a very great difference in strength, I doubt it's even possible to slam someone's head into the ground if he offers resistance. Especially not from the position described.

And what exactly was Trayvon holding onto?


Mayhaps the front of Zimmerman's jacket?
 
2013-05-26 07:20:31 PM
FloridaFarkTag:

A dispatcher is not a law enforcement officer in Seminole County.....they cannot order you to not do something. A dispatcher could be prosecuted and sent to prison if they mislead that they are law enforcement and they are not

Can be sent to prison for telling a nutter to simmer down.. can not be sent to prison for hunting human game with a gun

I see your viewpoint. i find it strange.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:09 PM
ChaosStar:

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.

Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.


I defy you to find any evidence known to the public up to now that would in any way confirm any part of this assertion of Zimmerman's.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:23 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: quietwalker:
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

(1) If Trayvon was on top of Martin when he was shot by Zimmerman, why wasn't GZ covered in Martin's blood? If he was lying down on wet ground when he was getting his head bashed in, why was his jacket clean? If Trayvon covered GZ's mouth with his hand to muffle him, why was there no evidence of Zimmerman's saliva or skin cells found on Martin's hand during the autopsy?

(2) The cell phone conversations haven't proved anything other than that George spotted Martin and pursued him (the 911 call), Trayvon noticed that Zimmerman was following him, and tried to get away (call to Trayvon's girlfriend). The phone records don't confirm who started the confrontation or anything after.

(3) Most of the eyewitnesses have admitted that it was too dark to see anything clear enough to be certain, and some eyewitness reports have been inconsistent with what they said at an earlier time.

(4) The medical evidence shows that Trayvon had no injuries on his body aside from the gunshot and an abrasion on his knuckle. Beating the crap out of someone is going to put some wear and tear on the hands of the assailant.

(5) George's version of events have changed multiple times.


I'm sure that there are some minutia that haven't been explained, and I'm aware people have reported evidence on both sides of the murder/self-defense claims which has been of questionable validity.  However, the summary of all this is that much of the information we have - and you present - is irrelevant, non-conclusive, spurious, or due to imperfections in the filter the information passes through before reaching us (the various media, defendant, victim's family, etc)

The only semi-reliable information we have to go on to make any sort of justifiable decision about whether the killing was lawful or not, is that information officially released by police, and the actions they took in regards to it.

All of that information indicates the belief that Zimmerman's story was accurate, and that it was a lawful killing in self-defense.  Anything else is playing junior CSI with not enough information, and nothing but idle speculation.
 
2013-05-26 07:21:34 PM

tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!



If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:17 PM

tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.


Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:25 PM
gimmegimme: A Terrible Human: Why didn't Zimmerman stay the fark in his car like he was told to?

1) You're a liar and you know it. He was not ordered to say in the car
2) 9-1-1 phone monkeys have no authority to give orders.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:43 PM
Wolf_Blitzer

Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.

You are completely wrong when it comes to Florida. See the Montijo case before someone else brings it up for the thousandth time.
 
2013-05-26 07:22:47 PM

gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


How did Zimmerman know about the picture?
 
2013-05-26 07:23:21 PM

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."

Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.


Except Martin had no reason to do so. At all. It makes precisely ZERO sense that he would circle back after escaping his stalker.

Zimmerman has a documented history of powertripping, anger management issues and violence. Continuing his pursuit after complaining "they always get away" is consistent with that history.

Martin had a history of...being a typical ITG rap fan and smoking pot. Circling back to confront someone who, for all he knew, could have been an undercover cop or a mugger is not consistent with that history.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:24 PM

gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:31 PM
Another angry black man unavailable for comment.
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-26 07:24:40 PM

Warlordtrooper: How is this even being allowed.  No judge in their right mind would allowed a "She was wearing a short dress" defense in a rape trial.  This is no different.


Affirmative Defense.

Not exactly a short dress in a rape trial but his defense team will get more latitude in the more probative that prejudicial question. That's why they declined a "Stand Your Ground" hearing.  They wanted this personal information about Martin in... just like his defenders keep using his 8th grade graduation pic.

Forensics appear to back his story as do witnesses to the time line.  It stands to reason if he told the truth about most of his story he did about the attack.  If you didn't angles of entry and distance from impact would prove him a liar.  It doesn't look like he's a liar.

He's walking.
 
2013-05-26 07:24:57 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth


Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.
 
2013-05-26 07:25:45 PM

Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.


So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?
 
2013-05-26 07:26:48 PM

gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.


If you read some other articles, Trayvon Martin was going home to make purple drank, owning a screwdriver while black is proof that you're a burglar, and Facebook pictures are a more accurate judge of character than documented instances of anger management problems and aggression.
 
2013-05-26 07:28:57 PM

FTFA

In another, he refers to a fistfight with another boy who "snitched" on him.

Ah so in addition to ...
Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession

He had a history of jumping people he feels are "snitching". Who was Zim calling again?
Good riddance dirt bag.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:07 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.


Good point.  Hollywood does encourage a lot of people:

d3gtl9l2a4fn1j.cloudfront.net

2.bp.blogspot.com

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-26 07:29:08 PM

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


In most cases that is exactly correct. Evidence which does not directly go to "the truth of the matter asserted" is excluded.  And this makes sense. Just because you're a bad guy doesn't mean you should be killed.  But the "self defense" aspect of the case allows much broader evidence... like a case within a case.

I'll bet the prosecutor wishes he had a way to wriggle away from this.  They don't like losers, especially ones where the national and international media will be reporting ever moment of.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:28 PM

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


LOL.

In seriousness, they really shouldn't be using a 4 year old picture. The difference between 13 and 17 is staggering and is clearly meant to portray a very different individual, i.e. a child. Again, I'm not defending Zimmerman AT ALL. As a responsible journalist though, you need to be slightly more responsible than that.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:45 PM

Azlefty: ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

1) Zimmerman has no witnesses to altercation we do not know who approached who or what was really said

2) You ignore the fact that by Zimmerman chasing Martin for no legal reason after Martin fled from him can be construed as assault under FL law - runnig away indicates fear of harm- so yes Zimmerman did do something to him

3) that actually is a reasonable question to ask someone chasing you for no legal reason

4) Zimmerman should have told him why he had chased him, this possibly would have led Martin not ot fear for his safety

 5) If I confronted someone who was chasing me for no legal reason and they reached into their pocket I would take that as a lethal threat (you know like the cops do) and do everything in my power to neutralize that threat since I feel my life is in danger

Did the persecution hire you to help them make their case?  because you are doing  an awesome job doing so


1. correct, but the physical evidence pretty much backs up what Zimmerman said, as well as witness testimony that Martin was on top of Zimmerman pummeling him.
2. There is a difference between chasing and following. Zimmerman clearly had no intention to catch Martin, he was only observing, so no, that is not assault under Florida law.
3. As I stated before, it's a reasonable question if you want to try and act like a intimidating thug instead of a reasonable person.
4. When did Zimmerman have the chance? Martin punched him after two sentences.
5. Then you would be wrong and subject to arrest, or, as the case is here, dead. You are not in reasonable fear for your life just because someone reaches into their pocket.
 
2013-05-26 07:29:59 PM

gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?


Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.
 
2013-05-26 07:31:24 PM

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


How about one when he was 17? Shouldn't be hard to find one in the facebook era.
 
2013-05-26 07:31:37 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.


The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?
 
2013-05-26 07:31:39 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.


what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.
 
2013-05-26 07:32:35 PM

Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.


We're all entitled to our opinions.
 
2013-05-26 07:33:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


Wow...a tweet is proof of something?
 
2013-05-26 07:33:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


I need a team of top DoD scientists to crack that type of communication. Jesus, is that even English?
 
2013-05-26 07:34:09 PM

kortex: Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.

We're all entitled to our opinions.


Except for Martin.
 
2013-05-26 07:34:31 PM

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?


You are missing the point of this thread.
The defense is looking to introduce things that will raise a reasonable doubt in the jury.
 
2013-05-26 07:35:08 PM

gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?


I guess we know which side of things you come down on?

No but they should use the most recent photos available to most accurately represent him.  It doesn't do any good to be hyperbolic with pics of the young man.  The real pic's will be presented at trial.  And even if you tried to elicit sympathy from the jury pool once they see a broader spectrum of the real young man the "baby picture" strategy could backfire.
 
2013-05-26 07:36:34 PM

gimmegimme: kortex: I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.

Or you're psychic.


I know it may appear to you that I'm trolling, but that is the way I feel.  Everyone is in uproar because it's white on black.  I see it as two people.  A stupid man followed a stupid kid and the kid ended up attacking the man.  It was not right to follow the kid, but it was more wrong for the kid to attack the man.  The man was afraid for his life and shot the kid dead.  To me, even though the man was following the kid, the man is still in the right.  I can follow whoever I want, but I certainly can not attack whoever I want.  Make sense?  Probably not to you.
 
2013-05-26 07:37:09 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.




Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems
 
2013-05-26 07:38:05 PM

Giant Clown Shoe: gimmegimme: Giant Clown Shoe: 8th grade graduation pic.

So they should use a picture of Martin from the morgue?

I guess we know which side of things you come down on?

No but they should use the most recent photos available to most accurately represent him.  It doesn't do any good to be hyperbolic with pics of the young man.  The real pic's will be presented at trial.  And even if you tried to elicit sympathy from the jury pool once they see a broader spectrum of the real young man the "baby picture" strategy could backfire.


This is really the only part of the story I don't feel snarky about.  What if the family didn't have a school picture of him that was more recent?  I know I didn't have school pictures around his age.  Let's say ZImmerman dressed up as Rambo for Halloween.  I wouldn't want that picture used in the news, either.

tenpoundsofcheese: You are missing the point of this thread.
The defense is looking to introduce things that will raise a reasonable doubt in the jury.


How would a picture of a gun have helped Martin against the real gun that killed him?
 
2013-05-26 07:38:24 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: ChaosStar: Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
- (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
- (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
- (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
- (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story

None of that actually confirms anything Zimmerman said; it doesn't contradict it, but it leaves plenty of space for alternative events to have happened. Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.


Agreed, there may have been an alternate series of events, and as you say, he must prove his series of events occurred, not just rely on lack of evidence for alternate events.

To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said.  They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did.  So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him.  It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.

I believe that when this goes to trial, he'll be acquitted.  I see scant justification for any other outcome.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:29 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.


Thats all there is, the tweet. If Martin had actually assaulted a bus driver, he would certainly have been punished for it; suspended it or more likely expelled, and probably arrested. That didn't happen: his suspensions were for tardiness, graffitti and possessing a marijuana pipe. And the kid didn't have a juvenile arrest record.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:33 PM

OnlyM3: FTFA
In another, he refers to a fistfight with another boy who "snitched" on him.
Ah so in addition to ...
Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession

He had a history of jumping people he feels are "snitching". Who was Zim calling again?
Good riddance dirt bag.


Martin had no criminal record. There is no proof that anything you said happened except for him being suspended from school for having a baggie that smelled like pot.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:42 PM

OnlyM3: Vandalism
Possession of stolen goods
violence
Assault of random bus driver
Drug use/sales
Weapons possession


From Wikipedia: The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen. Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record.[45][46][47][48][49]

Unless you can provide proof of these so-called "assaults" and "weapon possession" (a picture of a gun on his cell phone doesn't count as evidence, especially since we don't see who is holding the weapon), then STFU and quit pulling bullsh*t out of your ass.
 
2013-05-26 07:38:49 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: Mid_mo_mad_man: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth

Nope.
I have said before, in almost all the gun threads, that we have a culture of violence in this country.
Hollywood is out of control and they duck whenever there is a mass shooting.

Well I'm saying black culture. They need to look at themselves for the source of thier problems


Getting shot when they're unarmed?
 
2013-05-26 07:38:50 PM

ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.

Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.


Well, no, that's not exactly how the Florida justifiable use of force statute works, but the fact remains that under that statute, even if Zimmerman was the aggressor he would have had the right to use deadly force if he reasonably believed that Martin was endangering his life.  We do not know for sure, however, whether Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement (no eyewitness other than Zimmerman has asserted this, AFAIK) or whether the injuries on the back of Zimmerman's head arose from some other cause; furthermore, even assuming that Martin pounded Zimmerman's head into the pavement one or more times, we do not know that he was still doing so when he was shot, or whether Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life when he pulled his gun.
 
2013-05-26 07:39:09 PM

Shirley Ujest: special20: My money is on Zimmerman eating a bullet in a few years.

He should be housed with Jodi Arias.


Youre going to reward him with anal sex with a hot chick???
 
2013-05-26 07:39:24 PM

ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.

Whether my scenario or yours is correct, Martin is still the aggressor and in the eyes of the law Zimmerman could legally used deadly force if he felt that his life was in danger. When Martin started utilizing the sidewalk as a weapon to the back of Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman had full reason to believe his life may be in danger.


it comes down to this

An Armed Adult, was stalking an unarmed minor

and the minor ended up dead

then the police let his body sit in the morgue for 3 days as a "Jhon Doe"(note his was a John doe who was carrying ID and cellphone) ,until his mother filled a missing persons

The police in this area have a vested intrest in supporting zimmermans side of the story, being they commented a ton of documented wrong doing in the handling of this case before it came to attention of the general public
 
2013-05-26 07:39:46 PM
Zimmerman will be acquited and the darkies will go ape-shiat in Sanford.

The end.
 
2013-05-26 07:40:20 PM

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?


Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.
 
2013-05-26 07:40:32 PM

gimmegimme: kortex: Unknown_Poltroon: kortex: He acted in self defense.

He attacked a teenager and killed him.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Except for Martin.


He gave his opinion.  He thought it was smart to attack someone else.  Unfortunately, for the world (because we have to hear about it forever), he was up dead wrong.
 
2013-05-26 07:41:29 PM
LordJiro: Except Martin had no reason to do so. At all. It makes precisely ZERO sense that he would circle back after escaping his stalker.
Zimmerman has a documented history of powertripping, anger management issues and violence. Continuing his pursuit after complaining "they always get away" is consistent with that history.
Martin had a history of...being a typical ITG rap fan and smoking pot. Circling back to confront someone who, for all he knew, could have been an undercover cop or a mugger is not consistent with that history.

Martin would have reason to do so if he felt like he had to prove something or that he was an alpha personality thug.
Said it before, will say it again, when he was told him following Martin wasn't needed he stopped. You can hear it in the tapes.
 
2013-05-26 07:41:49 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: tenpoundsofcheese: Wolf_Blitzer: gblive: If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

"Believed to be" by the same right-wing derp brigade that made up the bus driver story. Meaning nothing.

what do you mean made up the bus driver story?  Has that been disproven?

here is the tweet from Treyvon's brother.

Thats all there is, the tweet. If Martin had actually assaulted a bus driver, he would certainly have been punished for it; suspended it or more likely expelled, and probably arrested. That didn't happen: his suspensions were for tardiness, graffitti and possessing a marijuana pipe. And the kid didn't have a juvenile arrest record.


Hmmm...I don't have any tweets to back me up, but I do have a different kind of Internet certification to prove that I had a torrid love affair with Kristen Bell.

imageshack.us

I totally made sweet, sweet love to Kristen Bell, right tenpounds?
 
2013-05-26 07:43:01 PM

tyrajam: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: gblive: tyrajam: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!


If you read some other articles... the pistol in the picture on Trayvon's phone is believed to be stolen.

How did Zimmerman know about the picture?

Martin may have shown it to Zimmerman before the altercation started.
You don't know either way.

WTF does it matter.  You are missing the point again.

The point is that you are grasping at straws.  How could the picture of a gun that you mention give Zimmerman a reason to shoot the kid?

Holy.Farking.Crap. The "reason" he shot Trayvon was because Martin came back and attacked him and was bashing his head into the cement. The defense showing that Martin was trying to illegally buy a gun and used drugs is just to blow holes in the prosecutions attempts to show that Martin was an innocent little child. In the end it doesn't matter. Martin attacked Zimmerman and was shot. It's sad, but not overly complicated.


Hmmm...if Zimmerman had his "head bashed into the cement," surely he was in the hospital for quite some time, right?
 
2013-05-26 07:43:34 PM

quietwalker: To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said. They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did. So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him. It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.

I believe that when this goes to trial, he'll be acquitted. I see scant justification for any other outcome.


The initial investigator wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter. My feeling is thats the most likely result here, Zimmerman will be found not guilty of murder but convicted of some variant of manslaughter, he'll do some time, and most people won't be happy. I'll be satisfied; from what I've read I think murder is a stretch but manslaugher is almost a given.
 
2013-05-26 07:43:56 PM

quietwalker: To disagree with you though, everything that the police indicated they considered does confirm everything Zimmerman said.  They could find no contradictions, as you pointed out, and further, where evidence would exist, it did.  So strongly did this evidence support his side that the police didn't even arrest him.  It wasn't until a politically motivated individual tried to ride a wave of public resentment well after the situation had passed that he was even charged.


*AHEM*

During a bond hearing on April 20, 2012, Investigator Dale Gilbreath testified under oath that he did not know whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fight and that there is no evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claim that he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin confronted him. Gilbreath, however, questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found."[204][205][206] Gilbreath was one of two investigators who attested to the facts stated in the probable cause affidavit.

Now you're talking as if you know everything happened exactly as Zimmerman says it is, which means you're just trolling.
 
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