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(New York Daily News)   George Zimmerman's legal team has been given the green light to present the "the victim was an angry black kid, so it's okay that I shot him" defense   (nydailynews.com) divider line 693
    More: Obvious, George Zimmerman, smoke rings, murder trial, Benjamin Crump, Cannabis smoking, Mark O'Mara  
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7126 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 07:05:09 PM

Ryker's Peninsula: You're going to look good in orange.
I guarantee it.


The same state that put away Casey Anthony?
 
2013-05-26 07:05:24 PM

quietwalker:
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story


(1) If Trayvon was on top of Martin when he was shot by Zimmerman, why wasn't GZ covered in Martin's blood? If he was lying down on wet ground when he was getting his head bashed in, why was his jacket clean? If Trayvon covered GZ's mouth with his hand to muffle him, why was there no evidence of Zimmerman's saliva or skin cells found on Martin's hand during the autopsy?

(2) The cell phone conversations haven't proved anything other than that George spotted Martin and pursued him (the 911 call), Trayvon noticed that Zimmerman was following him, and tried to get away (call to Trayvon's girlfriend). The phone records don't confirm who started the confrontation or anything after.

(3) Most of the eyewitnesses have admitted that it was too dark to see anything clear enough to be certain, and some eyewitness reports have been inconsistent with what they said at an earlier time.

(4) The medical evidence shows that Trayvon had no injuries on his body aside from the gunshot and an abrasion on his knuckle. Beating the crap out of someone is going to put some wear and tear on the hands of the assailant.

(5) George's version of events have changed multiple times.
 
2013-05-26 07:05:51 PM

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

OF COURSE that's how it happened.  There is no conceivable reason Zimmerman would make up something, its not like hes on the hook for murdering an unarmed kid in cold blood after accosting him on the street for no reason.  TOTALLY believable that he would be telling the truth about a 17 year old kid attacking an armed guy.


Luckily, in the US, it's innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  Hate to break it to you, but unless you have evidence of these alternate hypotheses, you're SOL.  The evidence and testimony is on Zim's side.  Martin was just a drugged up, thug and got the death all thugs dream about ... getting shot.
 
2013-05-26 07:05:52 PM
I'm always conflicted when a current psychopath kills a future psychopath.....

Should I be upset that one is gone or should I be upset that one is still around.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:25 PM

Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.


I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:25 PM

gimmegimme: BgJonson79: gimmegimme: FloridaFarkTag: LegacyDL: So by that logic if the kid was a drunk abusive Irish man that beat his wife it would be okay to shoot him as well.

When did text messages become de facto proof that warrants killing people?

Calling yourself "No Limit Ni--a" on twitter don't help either

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's cold-blooded murder?

Since there's been no trial, how can you say there's been a murder?

I'm not on the jury.  "Alleged murder."  Happy now?

jayphat: By far I am not a Zimmerman defender. HOWEVER, your article lends zero credence when you use this farking picture.
[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x835]

In all honesty, folks, this happens with just about every crime or every person who dies.  They use a pleasant picture.  We had a guy in high school who died in a car crash while driving the wrong way down a one-way street with no lights on on a suspended license while drunk and high and driving with his knees, etc.  The news and newspaper used his school picture for obvious reasons.  Come on.


Of course. We're all innocent until proven guilty.
 
2013-05-26 07:06:41 PM

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.


HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."
 
2013-05-26 07:07:01 PM

seadoo2006: Please show your evidence that the gun was pulled prior to Martin getting shot.


You said this:

seadoo2006: A Terrible Human: Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...

Well, except for the fights he himself talked about on social media sites, the fact that he assaulted a bus driver (adult in position of authority asking him what he was doing) and he was caught with burglary tools and stolen property in his locker.

So that means he totally deserved to die?

Nope, but putting the beat down on an armed, concerned citizen means he deserved to die.  Put it another way, he beat up an armed dude ... that's some Darwin-level stupidity right there and yes, it's probably a good thing he's not around anymore.

 
2013-05-26 07:07:05 PM

Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well


So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.
 
2013-05-26 07:07:24 PM

ChaosStar: tirob:

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


I would give this uncorroborated hearsay from a biased witness a good bit less credibility than you appear to do.  Furthermore, even if this is an accurate reconstruction of the conversation that preceded the fight, it is as consistent with my scenario as it is with yours.
 
2013-05-26 07:07:27 PM

Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.


I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?


It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.


Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.
 
2013-05-26 07:08:15 PM

LordJiro: ChaosStar: LordJiro: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Abox: ChaosStar: Especially when you didn't start said fight.

Sorry, I didn't realize the trial was over.

This trial was over when they went for a murder in the second degree charge. It won't happen.

Oh sorry, I thought you were privy to some new info.  We know armed Zim was stalking unarmed Martin, we know there was a fight that cost Zim some skin, and we know Zim shot Martin. And we have Zim's side of the story.  I really can't wait for this trial to be over so the derpulation can stop.

Really? You know he was stalking Martin? Please do cite a source for this because I can give you transcripts and audio that goes to the contrary. Seems like you're the one full of derpulation there chief.

The man with known power-trip and anger management issues biatching about how "they always get away" is a good start.

You could win an Olympic gold with that leap buddy.
A man has anger management issues, and he complaining that the crooks always get away because police response time is so slow, clearly that means he was stalking Martin through the neighborhood.
What deductive reasoning are you using huh?

Why was he not in his truck after being told he 'didn't need to follow Martin'? Why did he just not go home, or go wherever he wanted to meet the cops, then call them back?


Probably because he doesn't have a means of teleportation. There is only a minute of unknown after Zimmerman hung up with the dispatcher. Some of that minute is assuredly part of the altercation.
 
2013-05-26 07:08:52 PM

Tatsuma: Walter Paisley: Back to the topic at hand, how would Martin's intent of taking codeine or his fondness for pot translate into violent tendencies? How is experimenting with drugs out of the norm for a teenager? Zimmerman's defense seems to be more based upon playing up fears in which drug users and young black males are demonized.

I was just correcting what he was saying. It's not the drug use, it's the picture of him with a gun, his claims of beating a snitch and being a gangsta, his having stolen property in his locker, his texts about buying a gun, it's really about all of these things.

gimmegimme: Otherwise, why would you care?

It's about establishing character.

Wolf_Blitzer: Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.

Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead.


Why focus on one pe rs on's potential for violence instead of the actual violence that took place that night?
 
2013-05-26 07:08:56 PM
I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:06 PM

kortex: I donated to Zimmerman's defense fund. Why? He acted in self defense. He was afraid for his life. It comes as no surprise that lil Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody. Well, he beat up the wrong guy. Serves the little shiathead right. I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty of all charges.


www.marekgayer.com

Or you're psychic.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:14 PM

kortex: He acted in self defense.


He attacked a teenager and killed him.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:28 PM

gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?


yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:31 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well

So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.


This is one of the idiots who seriously argued that Martin was probably heading home to make purple drank, while the man with a documented history of anger management issues and power trips totally was totally going to give up the chase and let a perceived "thug" get away.
 
2013-05-26 07:10:41 PM
PLEASE NOTE:
1. Zimmerman was not told by the police not to follow Martin. He was told by a non-LEO operator "we don't need you to do that".

Please carry on.
 
2013-05-26 07:11:34 PM

LordJiro: ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.


Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
  - (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
  - (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
  - (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
  - (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story
 
2013-05-26 07:11:44 PM

Giant Clown Shoe: Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.

I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.


Neither does yours. So why bother?
 
2013-05-26 07:12:24 PM

Tatsuma: Well if you also have many texts sent to strangers about beating up people, doing drugs and being a gangsta, don't get into an assault without witnesses around or you'll be farked if the other guy is not an idiot and doesn't have incriminating stuff lying around to show him to be a violent shiathead


You're right, its a good thing there's no records of Zimmerman being a violent shiathead, like an arrest for assaulting a police officer. That would be bad.
 
2013-05-26 07:12:43 PM
kortex: Trayvon was a drug making gangster wanna be. He thought he would show how gangster he was an beat up somebody.

We either have an eyewitness here, or someone who can read dead people's minds.
 
2013-05-26 07:12:54 PM

ChaosStar: LordJiro: ChaosStar: tirob: ChaosStar: gimmegimme:

Can you please present guidelines as to what kind of online rhetoric is justification for a person's death caused by some means?

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Why was Zimmerman following Martin? Under what authority did he engage in an armed pursuit?

weird questions.
since when do you need authority to follow someone?

You're really denying that Zim was playing police officer?

I'll answer your question by telling you that no one is saying that the online rhetoric is justification for Martin's death. You're the only one making that connection.
What the defense is saying is that Martin wasn't the angel the media made him out to be, in fact he was the type likely to punch Zimmerman in the nose and beat his head on the sidewalk for a perceived slight to himself and this online rhetoric goes to prove that. There's your answer.
.

Is there any evidence of this perceived slight that you mention?  Because all the evidence and purported evidence that you have listed here in your posts are also consistent with Martin's perhaps perceiving that he and/or his father's fiancée's condo unit were in danger from a stranger who was following him for no reason that he could fathom.

"Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Again, we *only* have Zimmerman's word for that, backed up with zero evidence.

Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirm ...


The case has not gone to trial so nothing has been confirmed yet in a court of law
 
2013-05-26 07:13:05 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.


What should we be doing in the white community to reduce abuse of the drug?

LordJiro: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: Martin admitted that it was indeed a burglary tool and that those were stolen property, he only denied that it was his. And for fark's sake, they found a bag with a screwdriver and 12 pieces of women's jewelery that he denied having stolen, you really are buying that?

Not just tweets, a picture of himself holding a gun, asking where he could buy one, asking another to split the cost in half with him, calling himself a gangsta, beating up a snitch.. He also sold drugs, took drugs, not just smoking weed but harder stuff as well

So we've established you were completely wrong about Martin having any actual, documented history of violence, but you're charging ahead with your character assassination of a dead kid. You're consistent, I'll give you that.

This is one of the idiots who seriously argued that Martin was probably heading home to make purple drank, while the man with a documented history of anger management issues and power trips totally was totally going to give up the chase and let a perceived "thug" get away.


What?!?!?!?!  Why in the world would anyone think there's a racial component to the way pro-Zimmerman folks see the case?
 
2013-05-26 07:13:25 PM

seadoo2006: IlGreven: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.

Really? Because around here, if you're walking your dog after 11pm, or if you look 'young' and are out after 11pm (curfew), you can expect to be stopped, identified, and questioned as to your reason for being out.  If you don't have a valid reason for breaking curfew, you get a trip home and a summons to juvie court.  I'm 25 and have been stopped several times by the unmarked Cleveland Heights beat cop Grand Marquis'.

I'd say in MOST communities, youths that are walking around at night are going to be assigned a suspicious label and questioned.  I would expect no less from my local police department.  But, see, our PD bans kids from our business districts after 6pm, so I appreciate their concern for the general hoodlums that tend to loiter around.

http://www.clevelandheights.com/index.aspx?page=1004

"In addition, no unsupervised persons under the age of 18 may be on public streets in the Coventry business district, the Cedar Lee business district and the Severance Town Center between the hours of 6:00 pm to 6:00 am."


This was a really interesting read.

Thanks.
 
2013-05-26 07:13:34 PM

Unknown_Poltroon: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

OF COURSE that's how it happened.  There is no conceivable reason Zimmerman would make up something, its not like hes on the hook for murdering an unarmed kid in cold blood after accosting him on the street for no reason.  TOTALLY believable that he would be telling the truth about a 17 year old kid attacking an armed guy.


I guess he faked all the evidence that backs up his accounting of the story huh?
Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed when he attacked him, that's why it's called CONCEALED carry.
 
2013-05-26 07:14:08 PM
Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.
 
2013-05-26 07:14:21 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: Isn't it sad that Martin got wrapped up in marijuana?

yeah.
that and the culture of violence.
bad combination.



Say what you really mean and say black culture. Quit avoiding the truth
 
2013-05-26 07:14:26 PM

tyrajam: PLEASE NOTE:
1. Zimmerman was not told by the police not to follow Martin. He was told by a non-LEO operator "we don't need you to do that".

Please carry on.


It doesn't matter, because according to Zimmerman's fan club, he didn't keep pursuing Martin. And Martin, being a purple drank chuggin' thug (not racist) who was a burglar (despite no evidence of that - again, not racist) approached and confronted Zimmerman even after telling his girlfriend he was trying to get away from Zimmerman, because you know how violent THOSE people are. Not racist.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:02 PM

Tatsuma: Actually that's false, he had both sprite (well, a variant, it was not iced tea, as reported) and he had skittles (doesn't just have to be Jolly Ranchers) and he has documented discussion about using codeine and drinking purple drank.

Doesn't mean he was high on the night, more likely he went to buy what he needed and was going back home to get high on some sizzurp.


You're making a broad assumptions about what he was going to do with Skittles and Arizona brand Watermelon Punch. Even if Trayvon was going to make "lean" with it, it has nothing to do with what happened, nor does it justify shooting him. Also, if you noticed the rest of my post, "sizzurp" makes you sleepy and giddy, not aggressive. If Martin was actually on "drank" at the time, he would have been too f*cked up to assault anyone, much less run away from them or have a lucid cell phone conversation with his girlfriend.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:05 PM
Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:05 PM

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


I disagree.  Zimmerman had turned to violence before, so it stands to reason he would do so again.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:20 PM

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


Which one are we talking about?
 
2013-05-26 07:15:37 PM

OnlyM3: Because having a history of criminal violence would have no bearing on or indication of his behavior that evening.


Yes, that's what Zimmerman's fanclub seems to be arguing.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:42 PM

ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


1) Zimmerman has no witnesses to altercation we do not know who approached who or what was really said

2) You ignore the fact that by Zimmerman chasing Martin for no legal reason after Martin fled from him can be construed as assault under FL law - runnig away indicates fear of harm- so yes Zimmerman did do something to him

3) that actually is a reasonable question to ask someone chasing you for no legal reason

4) Zimmerman should have told him why he had chased him, this possibly would have led Martin not ot fear for his safety

 5) If I confronted someone who was chasing me for no legal reason and they reached into their pocket I would take that as a lethal threat (you know like the cops do) and do everything in my power to neutralize that threat since I feel my life is in danger

Did the persecution hire you to help them make their case?  because you are doing  an awesome job doing so
 
2013-05-26 07:15:42 PM
How is this even being allowed.  No judge in their right mind would allowed a "She was wearing a short dress" defense in a rape trial.  This is no different.
 
2013-05-26 07:15:43 PM

ChaosStar: You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.


or unless you are a jerk.

you looking at me?  you looking at ME???
 
2013-05-26 07:16:25 PM

ChaosStar: Except /all/ the evidence backs it up.

Quietwalker
- (1) The physical evidence available to police confirms the story
- (2) The electronic (cell phone), information available to police confirms the story
- (3) The actual eye witnesses corroborate the story
- (4) The medical evidence (both Zimmerman's wounds, and the coroner's report) confirm the story
- (5) After several hours of interrogation, police believed his story


None of that actually confirms anything Zimmerman said; it doesn't contradict it, but it leaves plenty of space for alternative events to have happened. Self defense is an affirmative defense, its not simply a matter of introducing reasonable doubt.
 
2013-05-26 07:16:45 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Giant Clown Shoe: Your Average Witty Fark User: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only thing that matters to me. Zimmerman was told to stand down.

I think it's unlikely that will be any part of any jury instruction.  So, literally, your opinion doesn't matter.

Neither does yours. So why bother?


Plenty of the things discussed in this thread are relevant and will come up at the trial.... just not th "only thing that matters" to you.

So... that's why.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:36 PM

gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."


Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:40 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: So when trying to establish whether he was assaulted or not, it's irrelevant to present information specifically about Martin's character when it comes to violence, crime and drug abuse? That's racist?

Trayvon Martin had absolutely no documented history of violence. George Zimmerman on the other hand...


George Zimmerman was a fully licensed 220 General Lines Insurance Agent, which requires a full and thorough civil AND criminal background check. Wonder how Martin would have fared, at age 18, when the authorities went looking into his background for the same check..  BTW, just type FL Insurance agent search into your googlers, and use Zimmerman's name, and you WILL see him.  It's no small thing, that background check, so chill your farked chickens and understand theat Zimmerman had very good character.
 
2013-05-26 07:17:49 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: He also texted a picture of himself holding a gun, asked another one to help him buy one, and proclaimed himself to be a gangsta. That's way above and beyond ITG

Again, I have recent photos firing a machine gun, guess you'd better just kill me now.

This is way beyond grasping at straws, its pathetic really.


What in the fark are you talking about? Nobody cares that Martin had pics of a gun on his phone, it is the text messages on his phone where he is trying to illegally buy a pistol that are being considered. Talk about pathetic!
 
2013-05-26 07:17:49 PM
FuryOfFirestorm: How the media guessed at George's version of events have changed multiple times.

ftfy.

unless you have different versions of a police report with George's differing versions.
 
2013-05-26 07:18:37 PM

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.


upload.wikimedia.org
www.mckellen.com
iglassbox.site40.net
 
2013-05-26 07:18:57 PM

AngryDragon: ChaosStar: Note this part of the timeline was confirmed by the police.

I find the highlighted part above the interesting bit.


That just means the police are racist too.

/everybody knows that
 
2013-05-26 07:19:05 PM

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable that Trayvon was going to end his life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how it was going to happen.


I believe the word you were looking for was "inevitable". Or possibly "inconceivable", since you seem to be dense.
 
2013-05-26 07:19:48 PM

Elegy: seadoo2006: IlGreven: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: gimmegimme: GF named my left testicle thundercles: If you have more loyalty to your race than you do to truth and justice then you are part of the problem.

Isn't it sick?  These people are gleeful over the death of a 17-year-old kid.

[files.abovetopsecret.com image 520x673]

[www.washingtonpost.com image 500x749]

i dont know the facts. but it is possible that he deserved it by attacking zimmerman. i dont know if that is the case. everyone should chill out. allow the facts to be presented in a reasonable manner in court. that is all i have to say.

Why excuse Zimmerman's actions?  If you are armed and you stalk someone around in a car and then on foot and follow the person between buildings when it's clear they are trying to get the hell away from you, well, you just started a fight.

Unless you're a cop, which Zimmerman, with his history of violence, is certainly not.

...even if you're a cop, that's the sort of shiat that would get you thrown off the force in a sane world (and even a few weeks paid leave in this insane one), unless you had ironclad absolute proof that he was an immediate threat to anyone else. Zimmerman doesn't even have proof that Martin started the final altercation that got him killed.

Really? Because around here, if you're walking your dog after 11pm, or if you look 'young' and are out after 11pm (curfew), you can expect to be stopped, identified, and questioned as to your reason for being out.  If you don't have a valid reason for breaking curfew, you get a trip home and a summons to juvie court.  I'm 25 and have been stopped several times by the unmarked Cleveland Heights beat cop Grand Marquis'.

I'd say in MOST communities, youths that are walking around at night are going to be assigned a suspicious label and questioned.  I would expect no less from my local police department.  But, see, our PD bans kids from our business districts after 6pm, so I appreciate their ...


I live 2 miles from the Cedar Lee business district and I had no idea about this what-so-ever.
 
2013-05-26 07:19:54 PM

gblive: Sadly, it was enviable

Inevitable   that TrayvonZimmermanwas going to end his someones life at the end of a gun - it is just a question of when/how or who it was going to happen to.

There fixed it for you
 
2013-05-26 07:20:17 PM

ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: gimmegimme: ChaosStar: "Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police." - Orlando Sentinel
You don't really walk up to someone and ask them "do you have a problem" unless you feel like they've done or are doing something against you in some way.

Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...

And "Do you have a problem?" is EXACTLY what people would ask if they were being pursued.

"Do you have a problem?" is something you, and someone like Martin would say if you were being followed. Normal, rational people, might ask "why are you following me?" instead of trying to be an aggressive thug. This is exactly why the online material is credible evidence in the trial, it goes to show the type of person Martin was, the type that would punch first, ask questions later.

HAHAHAHAHA!  Now you're justifying the death of a 17-year-old by impugning what he asked of the armed man who was following him, even when he left the sidewalk to try and get away.

You're right.  Martin had the obligation to bow and ask, "Dear Sir, I mean no disrespect; I couldn't help but notice you have been following me around for several moments and this has caused me some concern.  If it's not too much of an imposition, may I please ask if we have any business to discuss that I don't know about?  Thank you in advance."

Now you're just showing you're a troll arguing just to argue.
I wish I could punctuate every single word of my next sentence with the smack of a bat to your head so maybe you would remember it.
Martin approached Zimmerman after Zimmerman lost him, meaning Martin was not trying to get away, he had gotten away.


Goodness!  You can't find politer rhetoric to communicate that idea?  I like to think you're a normal, rational person instead of trying to be an aggressive thug.
 
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