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(JSOnline)   Farmer charged with selling (can't say it - court order) is found not guilty of selling (can't say it - court order)   (jsonline.com) divider line 230
    More: Followup, Loganville, farmers, rights movement, selling, Vernon Hershberger  
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17316 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 3:07 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 02:05:06 PM
Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.
 
2013-05-26 02:07:19 PM
We as a people have really pushed to undo all of the health advances of the 20th century.  Darwin approves, we have too many people in the world.
 
2013-05-26 03:06:03 PM

Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.


Really glad this was the Weeners
 
2013-05-26 03:10:45 PM

basemetal: We as a people have really pushed to undo all of the health advances of the 20th century.  Darwin approves, we have too many people in the world.


That's the real conspiracy.

Lower the world population by spreading FUD about food, vaccines, and sanitation.
 
2013-05-26 03:11:10 PM

Metalupis: Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.

Really glad this was the Weeners


It could be in the weeners all day 'erry day, for all the good it does in the real world. When it comes to food, "If I've never gotten sick off of it, it's 100% awesome and good and stop taking away muh freedoms". Or at least that's the response I get from my fellow Wisconsinites.
 
2013-05-26 03:12:54 PM
worldfamouspeople.weebly.com

Frowns upon these shenanigans.
 
2013-05-26 03:13:56 PM

Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.


I can't believe people are stupid enough to not know this.  I mean, its like boiling contaminated water.  This is basic.
 
2013-05-26 03:15:06 PM

basemetal: We as a people have really pushed to undo all of the health advances of the 20th century.  Darwin approves, we have too many people in the world.


And these people get to vote the same as you.
 
2013-05-26 03:17:33 PM
But many people believe that unprocessed milk, straight from the farm, contains bacteria that boost the immune system and have other beneficial properties.

Who gives a shiat what people "believe"?
 
2013-05-26 03:17:45 PM
Pasteurizing milk contaminates it with phlogiston and messes with your midichlorians unless you sleep under a pyramid.

/hey, we're doing this over the ether-net so why not?
 
2013-05-26 03:17:52 PM

Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.


But but...   FOOD FREEEEEDOOOOOOMMMMNNNNN!
 
2013-05-26 03:20:33 PM
If you've never had raw milk before you're missing out. The stuff tastes delicious and will make normal store bought milk seem undrinkable after  a few weeks.
 
2013-05-26 03:20:59 PM
Voldemilk?
 
2013-05-26 03:21:14 PM
Done in one, nothing more to see here, last one out turn off the lights
 
2013-05-26 03:21:29 PM
As a raw milk advocate, I'm getting a kick...

...does anyone have some Pepto?
 
2013-05-26 03:21:56 PM
I could see Canada clamping down on raw milk or other fairly unsafe food products since the government pays a significant portion of the populations medical expenses. In the states why wouldn't a waiver stating that the consumer assumes the risks related to the product be more than enough? Some hippy wants dirty milk? Sure, but they assume the risks and waive their right to sue for the foreseeable health problems associated with the product. Let the insurance companies decide if they cover sickness caused by negligence. Hospitals will make cash from the sick hippies and employers can fire sick milk drinkers for missing work .
 
2013-05-26 03:22:28 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.

I can't believe people are stupid enough to not know this.  I mean, its like boiling contaminated water.  This is basic.


That's "Natural Water", you fascist.
 
2013-05-26 03:22:56 PM
Feel free to drink it, broseph(ine)s, provided you and I don't share any insurance pools and that you have no contact with civilization.
 
2013-05-26 03:23:06 PM
What I'd like is is some irradiated non-homogenized milk. Kill to bacteria without heat and as otherwise unprocessed as possible.
 
2013-05-26 03:24:11 PM
Alternatively we can get around to accepting the fact that we're the only species who utilizes the milk of a mammal that isn't our own and that it's not natural, and just stop drinking EITHER.

That works too.
 
2013-05-26 03:25:08 PM
Wow. Phone-like typing detected.
 
2013-05-26 03:26:33 PM
Agreed, I miss the ice cold 4.25% butterfat milk straight from the bulk tank as a kid, stuff would probably gag me now tho.
 
2013-05-26 03:27:05 PM

rdu_voyager: What I'd like is is some irradiated non-homogenized milk. Kill to bacteria without heat and as otherwise unprocessed as possible.


Low-temperature vat pasteurization is the term you'd want to look for. It actually tastes very similar to raw milk but is harder to find.
 
2013-05-26 03:27:33 PM

Carth: If you've never had raw milk before you're missing out. The stuff tastes delicious and will make normal store bought milk seem undrinkable after  a few weeks.


I would agree, but with this disclaimer--only if you already drink whole milk (as opposed to 1%, 2%, or skim). Those who drink the latter most likely won't enjoy raw.

Don't like raw milk? Don't drink it. Couldn't be easier.
 
2013-05-26 03:28:47 PM

awalkingecho: Alternatively we can get around to accepting the fact that we're the only species who utilizes the milk of a mammal that isn't our own and that it's not natural, and just stop drinking EITHER.

That works too.


We're also the only species to drive cars and that's not natural so let's stop. Oh and forget the internet. No other animal has that so let's just shut it down.
 
2013-05-26 03:29:06 PM

Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.


I can understand that, raw milk is less safe than pasterized.

I can also understand the appeal of raw milk and the desire to eat food that is as unprocessed/pure/unfarked-with as possible.  (I don't quite go for raw milk, but organic unhomogenized milk from grass-fed cows is close enough for me, and perfectly legal)

Maybe this is a place where the leftist hippies and the right-wing randroids can agree for once, let the free market handle it.  If people want to drink it, knowing fully understanding the risks, then let them.  Just make sure that the farmers are immune from liability from that risk.
 
2013-05-26 03:29:26 PM

Somaticasual: chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.


Raw milk is pointless and pretty stupid to seek out, but in a country where buying cigarettes is legal I have qualms about making it illegal. Put suitably large and dire warnings on it, charge taxes similar to tobacco 'sin taxes' to pay for the added burden of illnesses on society, and I would probably be OK with it existing.

(I do like organic milk - organic isn't always worth it, but in this case fewer antibiotics and hormones appeals to me.)
 
2013-05-26 03:30:03 PM
I go a whole different route on this one.

Milk is gross and I don't drink it.  Seriously...why on earthy would you want to drink another animals milk?

Total hypocrite disclaimer: I love cheese....
 
2013-05-26 03:30:38 PM

Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.


The most vocal defenders of the practice are the libertarian derpers.  http://reason.com/archives/2013/05/26/raw-milk-trial-ends-in-partial- v ictory-f

/"gee i can't believe your article smells terrif... ic... ying"
 
2013-05-26 03:30:59 PM

Tarl3k: Done in one, nothing more to see here, last one out turn off the lights


If it's all for the public health, why isn't tobacco and alcohol banned? I'm fairly sure those 2 kill more people than raw milk.
 
2013-05-26 03:31:03 PM

John Buck 41: Don't like raw milk? Don't drink it. Couldn't be easier.


If it would only be about people poisoning themselves, I wouldn't really care. But what's to stop an unscrupulous milk producer from mixing in a little raw milk to save the pasteurization costs? Or someone who sells a dairy-based item from a roadside stand forgetting to mention that they used raw milk.

Unless we can trust everyone in the product chain - and let's be honest, we know we can't - you have to stop it at the suppliers to keep things safe.
 
2013-05-26 03:31:28 PM

underwhere: awalkingecho: Alternatively we can get around to accepting the fact that we're the only species who utilizes the milk of a mammal that isn't our own and that it's not natural, and just stop drinking EITHER.

That works too.

We're also the only species to drive cars and that's not natural so let's stop. Oh and forget the internet. No other animal has that so let's just shut it down.


I'm not sure either of those things require enzymes most of our bodies weren't equipped for. When was the last time you met someone who was intolerant of those natures?
 
2013-05-26 03:33:39 PM

Captain Dan: But many people believe that unprocessed milk, straight from the farm, contains bacteria that boost the immune system and have other beneficial properties.

Who gives a shiat what people "believe"?


DON'T INSULT MAH R'LIJIN!

"Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation" Peter 1:2

Who are you to defy Jeebus?

/sosh'list bureaucrats
//gay agenda
///OBAMA!
 
2013-05-26 03:34:43 PM

Silverstaff: Somaticasual: Folks, you can chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.
But really - there's a very good reason pasteurization was a breakthrough: people dying or getting ridiculously sick from illnesses caused by, wait for it - raw milk.  The FDA didn't ban its sale to piss off the hippies - it banned it in the interest of public health.

I can understand that, raw milk is less safe than pasterized.

I can also understand the appeal of raw milk and the desire to eat food that is as unprocessed/pure/unfarked-with as possible.  (I don't quite go for raw milk, but organic unhomogenized milk from grass-fed cows is close enough for me, and perfectly legal)

Maybe this is a place where the leftist hippies and the right-wing randroids can agree for once, let the free market handle it.  If people want to drink it, knowing fully understanding the risks, then let them.  Just make sure that the farmers are immune from liability from that risk.


The risks really aren't as great as some people claim. Around 200 people got sick from raw milk/cheese in 2002 (last year i could find data for) most at risk are kids and immunocompromised. When you consider 48 million people in the US every year have some foodborne illness it seems foolish so many states regulate raw cheese/milk
 
2013-05-26 03:34:48 PM

Carth: If you've never had raw milk before you're missing out. The stuff tastes delicious and will make normal store bought milk seem undrinkable after  a few weeks.


I have had raw milk in my wild and crazy days. It tasted similar to pasture fed milk I had from the same state. Certainly better than factory farm mass production stuff, but I have never been able to taste any difference from pasteurized product *that comes from equivalently treated and fed cows*. I've found that diet and stress are the big taste impacts, not proper pasteurization.
 
2013-05-26 03:35:22 PM

John Buck 41: Tarl3k: Done in one, nothing more to see here, last one out turn off the lights

If it's all for the public health, why isn't tobacco and alcohol banned? I'm fairly sure those 2 kill more people than raw milk.


Don't forget cheese burgers cooked under medium well.
 
2013-05-26 03:35:27 PM
thefleer.com
 
2013-05-26 03:35:30 PM
i guessed non-Monsanto soy or corn
 
2013-05-26 03:35:45 PM

awalkingecho: Alternatively we can get around to accepting the fact that we're the only species who utilizes the milk of a mammal that isn't our own and that it's not natural, and just stop drinking EITHER.

That works too.


We're the only species that does a lot of things. Should we stop using toothpaste and automobiles, too? It's so unnatural!
 
2013-05-26 03:35:53 PM

SumoJeb: In the states why wouldn't a waiver stating that the consumer assumes the risks related to the product be more than enough? Some hippy wants dirty milk? Sure, but they assume the risks and waive their right to sue for the foreseeable health problems associated with the product.


Imagine a scenario where a head-of-household consumes raw milk, gets sick and then dies.  Add to that scenario a wife, several young children and little-to-no medical or life insurance.  So the wife is left with unpaid medical bills and an insufficient amount of income.  Guess who now qualifies for food stamps and welfare that the rest of Wisconsin gets to pay for?  Or you can waive their right for public assistance since dad was an idiot.  So now you have a family on the street with all of the social ills that go along with it.

We're no longer in an age where Darwin gets to throw chlorine into the gene pool of the entire family.  So it is in the interest of society that you don't completely screw the pooch by being a retard, thereby screwing things up for the rest of us.
 
2013-05-26 03:35:55 PM

Sharksfan: Milk is gross and I don't drink it.  Seriously...why on earthy would you want to drink another animals milk?


Yeah, why drink their milk. Our species makes milk. While we're at, let's stop eating their meat. Our species makes meat.
 
2013-05-26 03:36:49 PM

Surpheon: but in a country where buying cigarettes is legal I have qualms about making it illegal


Cigarettes aren't part of our food supply. One of the goals of the FDA is to ensure that  everything sold as food is safe to eat. Note: not  healthy. The FDA does not guarantee the healthfulness of our food supply, only its safety. This means putting policies and procedures in place which prevent food-borne illness. Pasteurization is a simple process which has a big impact on food-borne illness.

Now, aged raw milk cheese- that's where it's at. The cultures use to make it into cheese basically kill off the same cultures as pasteurization.
 
2013-05-26 03:36:55 PM

ImpendingCynic: John Buck 41: Don't like raw milk? Don't drink it. Couldn't be easier.

If it would only be about people poisoning themselves, I wouldn't really care. But what's to stop an unscrupulous milk producer from mixing in a little raw milk to save the pasteurization costs?


Good point, but I don't think large dairies would take that risk.

Or someone who sells a dairy-based item from a roadside stand forgetting to mention that they used raw milk.

AFAIK that's already against the law. So apparently you want to ban raw milk, period.


Good point, but I don't think large dairies would take that risk.
 
2013-05-26 03:38:19 PM

ImpendingCynic: John Buck 41: Don't like raw milk? Don't drink it. Couldn't be easier.

If it would only be about people poisoning themselves, I wouldn't really care. But what's to stop an unscrupulous milk producer from mixing in a little raw milk to save the pasteurization costs? Or someone who sells a dairy-based item from a roadside stand forgetting to mention that they used raw milk.

Unless we can trust everyone in the product chain - and let's be honest, we know we can't - you have to stop it at the suppliers to keep things safe.


Raw milk sells for a very significant price premium it would be very stupid to "mix it in" with already pasteurized milk. Also since it has a very limited shelf life you'd notice pretty quick if you got it instead of factory milk.
 
2013-05-26 03:38:20 PM

Carth: Around 200 people got sick from raw milk/cheese in 2002


Raw numbers are meaningless without context. Raw milk is not sold in the same volumes as processed milk.
 
2013-05-26 03:38:44 PM

John Buck 41: Tarl3k: Done in one, nothing more to see here, last one out turn off the lights

If it's all for the public health, why isn't aren't tobacco and alcohol banned? I'm fairly sure those 2 kill more people than raw milk.


They tried that with alcohol. Didn't work too well.
 
2013-05-26 03:39:54 PM

Mentalpatient87: We're the only species that does a lot of things. Should we stop using toothpaste and automobiles, too? It's so unnatural!


Neither of those things are ingested. Toothpaste in most of its commercial forms is a grey area, as little is swallowed, though I'd still just as soon a natural alternative.

There's a big difference between luxuries and advancements we've made from intelligence and the use of tools, and sucking on the teat of something that most people in the world have an intolerance to in some degree or another.
 
2013-05-26 03:40:01 PM

Surpheon: Somaticasual: chance raw milk if you really want to feel different or ultra-organic.

Raw milk is pointless and pretty stupid to seek out, but in a country where buying cigarettes is legal I have qualms about making it illegal. Put suitably large and dire warnings on it, charge taxes similar to tobacco 'sin taxes' to pay for the added burden of illnesses on society, and I would probably be OK with it existing.

(I do like organic milk - organic isn't always worth it, but in this case fewer antibiotics and hormones appeals to me.)


My Grandfather ran a family farm, beef, pork and anything they decided was necessary. He however usually bought low temperature vat-pasteurized whole milk from the dairy farmer down the road. Organic? I doubt it but no hormones and nothing other than what was needed for the well being of the cows. Damn good stuff, never tasted any milk near as good until moving to France and buying the same thing from a co-op in the Alps.
 
2013-05-26 03:40:20 PM

SumoJeb: I could see Canada clamping down on raw milk or other fairly unsafe food products since the government pays a significant portion of the populations medical expenses. In the states why wouldn't a waiver stating that the consumer assumes the risks related to the product be more than enough? Some hippy wants dirty milk? Sure, but they assume the risks and waive their right to sue for the foreseeable health problems associated with the product. Let the insurance companies decide if they cover sickness caused by negligence. Hospitals will make cash from the sick hippies and employers can fire sick milk drinkers for missing work .


Whoa. WHOA. Then you'd have to make seatbelts optional too and food sanitation laws for all restaurants out the window.
 
2013-05-26 03:40:27 PM

Dinjiin: SumoJeb: In the states why wouldn't a waiver stating that the consumer assumes the risks related to the product be more than enough? Some hippy wants dirty milk? Sure, but they assume the risks and waive their right to sue for the foreseeable health problems associated with the product.

Imagine a scenario where a head-of-household consumes raw milk, gets sick and then dies.  Add to that scenario a wife, several young children and little-to-no medical or life insurance.  So the wife is left with unpaid medical bills and an insufficient amount of income.  Guess who now qualifies for food stamps and welfare that the rest of Wisconsin gets to pay for?  Or you can waive their right for public assistance since dad was an idiot.  So now you have a family on the street with all of the social ills that go along with it.

We're no longer in an age where Darwin gets to throw chlorine into the gene pool of the entire family.  So it is in the interest of society that you don't completely screw the pooch by being a retard, thereby screwing things up for the rest of us.


Imagine a scenario where the head of household gets drunk and dies, smokes cigarettes an dies, eats a raw hamburger and dies, eats undercooked poultry and dies, eats too much fast food and dies...

Do you really want to ban everything that is unhealthy and may lead to increased medical costs? Why do you choose raw milk, something very few people actually get sick from an almost no healthy adult dies, to draw the line?
 
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