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(Potomac Local)   A Libertarian explains why we should abolish our government and replace it with something that's more like how squirrels and bears commune in nature. Or something, hell, you read it   (potomaclocal.com) divider line 165
    More: Stupid, Mirror Nature, PwC, catastrophic failure, Department of Revenue, rational decision, mirrors, genetic predisposition  
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1644 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 May 2013 at 1:59 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 09:18:02 AM
First: Nature is cruel as shiat
second: the reason there are rich and powerful people and very poor people is essentially a rule of nature: some are lucky and strong and they take advantage of the rest or us as best they can.

A bunch of hippie bullshiat written by someone who's understanding about what's going on comes from Fox News. You've identified some problems: income inequality, corruption, etc. But your solution, "tear this biatch down and rebuild" needs some work. I know it's not as sexy as leading a back-to-nature Libertarian revolution but if you actually want to change things a single voice can do a lot in local politics just by paying attention to what your local government is doing(many State Senators have a newsletter, go to city/county council meetings, vote, etc) and then tell other people about the things going on so that maybe you'll find there are a lot more people who agree with you than you think.

We can do better Al and all it will take is for us to stop playing at this Micky Mouse shiat and do something. The politicians after all answer to us.
 
2013-05-26 09:32:03 AM
And the bear turns to the squirrel and asks, "Do you have any trouble with shiat sticking to your fur?".
 
2013-05-26 09:42:18 AM
"Sometimes I just have to disconnect..."
"I'm a Libertarian."


These sentences, they are the redundant
 
2013-05-26 10:25:06 AM
There are so many libertarians I would pay cash money to see set loose in the wild to prove their he-man skills for a month. So very many.
 
2013-05-26 11:14:24 AM
I read that Liberace and was intrigued, to say the least...
 
2013-05-26 11:26:56 AM
Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.
 
2013-05-26 11:38:17 AM

If only we give into NeoFeudalism and local strongmen, all our problems will disappear as our corporate Overlords are benevolent...



lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-05-26 11:42:02 AM

coco ebert: I read that Liberace and was intrigued, to say the least...


Oooh! Behind the Candelabra is on tonight!
 
2013-05-26 11:46:04 AM

Barfmaker: And the bear turns to the squirrel and asks, "Do you have any trouble with shiat sticking to your fur?".


The squirrel replies "No, I don't."
 
2013-05-26 11:59:41 AM
But why doesn't the baby bear pull himself up by his clawstraps and get his own damned lunch?
 
2013-05-26 12:01:13 PM

Somacandra: Barfmaker: And the bear turns to the squirrel and asks, "Do you have any trouble with shiat sticking to your fur?".

The squirrel replies "No, I don't."


And so the bear says "good" and then wipes his ass with the squirrel.
 
2013-05-26 12:03:00 PM

doyner: But why doesn't the baby bear pull himself up by his clawstraps and get his own damned lunch?


I'm still trying to figure out how you mistake a bear for a freaking squirrel

/even a baby bear
//further proof of a completely myopic viewpoint
 
2013-05-26 12:04:32 PM
Are all Libertarians this idealistic and stupid? Squirrels and bears don't have a complicated culture.
 
2013-05-26 12:16:30 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: But why doesn't the baby bear pull himself up by his clawstraps and get his own damned lunch?

I'm still trying to figure out how you mistake a bear for a freaking squirrel

/even a baby bear
//further proof of a completely myopic viewpoint


Probably a mix of no depth perception and a misunderstanding of perspective.  It's an allegory of their world view.
 
2013-05-26 12:20:02 PM
On Government:


F*ck it. That shiat's hard.
 
2013-05-26 12:20:06 PM
i159.photobucket.com

I read that as POTATO LOCAL NEWS

It prepared me well for the article.
 
2013-05-26 12:31:36 PM
Looks like the "author" is replying to posts on that site.  This could be fun.
 
2013-05-26 12:43:44 PM

doyner: Looks like the "author" is replying to posts on that site.  This could be fun.


DIVE, MY HAWKMEN!

www.booncotter.com
 
2013-05-26 01:01:32 PM
"A Libertarian explains..."

i970.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-26 01:07:17 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.


Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.
 
2013-05-26 01:34:18 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: But why doesn't the baby bear pull himself up by his clawstraps and get his own damned lunch?

I'm still trying to figure out how you mistake a bear for a freaking squirrel

/even a baby bear
//further proof of a completely myopic viewpoint


A black bear baby weighs between one half to one pound at birth.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-26 01:34:31 PM

slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.


Except for all of them?

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.

It's pretty much the same philosophy as every other form of government, except for the utopian nonsense that everyone will just spontaneously agree where their freedom ends and someone elses rights begin and there will be no need for police or courts or anything like that because libertarianism.
 
2013-05-26 01:37:30 PM

propasaurus: MaudlinMutantMollusk: doyner: But why doesn't the baby bear pull himself up by his clawstraps and get his own damned lunch?

I'm still trying to figure out how you mistake a bear for a freaking squirrel

/even a baby bear
//further proof of a completely myopic viewpoint

A black bear baby weighs between one half to one pound at birth.


They aren't usually out wandering around at birth, though, are they?
 
2013-05-26 01:41:34 PM

slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.



The problem is that not everyone agrees about what constitutes "infringing on another's freedom."

For example, we are infringing on the freedom of logging companies if we prohibit clear-cutting too close to a river in a watershed where salmon spawn, and we are infringing on the freedom of salmon fishermen if we don't.

If we were actually living in a simple agrarian society, or a hunting and gathering economy, something like the libertarian ideal would actually be an adaptive response.  In an industrialized economy like ours, in which all individuals are involved in interdependent and interconnected economic and social relationships with all others, the principle simply cannot work.  There are people who live thousands of miles from you and me, people who we will never meet, whose actions affect us.

Consider the factory collapse in Bangladesh a couple of weeks ago.  The decisions of American consumers to buy clothes at Wal*Mart (or to avoid doing so) had a direct influence on the lives of over 1000 Bangladeshis.  It would not have occurred to me, when picking out a t-shirt, that my decision would affect someone on the other side of the world, because I do not, and cannot, have perfect knowledge.  Unfortunately, in order for the libertarian ideal to actually work, perfect, or near perfect knowledge of the consequences of one's decisions is necessary.

That might be possible in a small community, but it isn't in a global system.

That's my argument against libertarianism.  Nothing to do with ad hominims.  Nothing to do with flaming.  Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.
 
2013-05-26 01:41:35 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Somacandra: Barfmaker: And the bear turns to the squirrel and asks, "Do you have any trouble with shiat sticking to your fur?".

The squirrel replies "No, I don't."

And so the bear says "good" and then wipes his ass with the squirrel.


I love this place.
 
2013-05-26 02:02:16 PM

FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.


That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.
 
2013-05-26 02:04:08 PM

slayer199: It's a pretty simple philosophy. You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.


And where is that line defined? And what happens if someone wants to be a dick and cross that line?
 
2013-05-26 02:06:48 PM
lolbertarians.
 
2013-05-26 02:07:25 PM

slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.


You mean like how affirmative action protects the rights and freedoms of minorities?

I'm in.
 
2013-05-26 02:07:55 PM

Mrtraveler01: FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.

That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.


We'll call that the "One Dick Theory" against Libertarianism.
 
2013-05-26 02:08:52 PM

FloydA: Consider the factory collapse in Bangladesh a couple of weeks ago. The decisions of American consumers to buy clothes at Wal*Mart (or to avoid doing so) had a direct influence on the lives of over 1000 Bangladeshis. It would not have occurred to me, when picking out a t-shirt, that my decision would affect someone on the other side of the world, because I do not, and cannot, have perfect knowledge. Unfortunately, in order for the libertarian ideal to actually work, perfect, or near perfect knowledge of the consequences of one's decisions is necessary.


But the conditions in Bangladesh have been well known for years.  It's not a question of not having perfect knowledge, it's a question of most consumers not even caring.
 
2013-05-26 02:09:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.

That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.


Socialist parking lot:

shans-auto.ru

Libertarian parking lot:

picsoff.com

cdn-www.i-am-bored.com
 
2013-05-26 02:10:47 PM

Mrtraveler01: slayer199: It's a pretty simple philosophy. You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.

And where is that line defined? And what happens if WHEN someone wants to be a dick and cross that line?

FTFY
 
2013-05-26 02:10:50 PM
Mrtraveler01:
That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.


In a small community (say 50 to 100 people), it is possible for the community to collectively enforce sanctions against cheaters, since all participants know all of the others, so in some very small communities, the libertarian ideal can work.  (SeeThe Forest People by Colin Turnbull, or Subsistence Ecology of !Kung Bushmen by R.B. Lee, for examples.)

It's completely impossible in our society, I agree.
 
2013-05-26 02:11:08 PM

Mrtraveler01: FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.

That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.


Amusingly enough,the one guy being a dick is usually libertarian.
 
2013-05-26 02:14:29 PM

misguided: Mrtraveler01: FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.

That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.

Amusingly enough,the one guy being a dick is usually libertarian.


Come on, be fair.  It's not as though most libertarians believe selfishness is a virtue.

img0029.popscreencdn.com
 
2013-05-26 02:15:57 PM
Satanic_Hamster:

But the conditions in Bangladesh have been well known for years.  It's not a question of not having perfect knowledge, it's a question of most consumers not even caring.

You're right, most consumers just didn't bother doing the research that would be required to make an informed decision.  That's another limitation to the libertarian ideal.  Failure of the system doesn't even require someone to be a dick; simple apathy is sufficient to cause it to break down.
 
2013-05-26 02:16:52 PM
Libertarian platform.
http://www.lp.org/platform
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.


/Quit farking with others who are different and quit going to war because some rich fark told you too.
//But the rightwing religious echo chamber makes it appear that those words mean to build your own walled compound and shoot everything that moves outside of it.
 
2013-05-26 02:17:19 PM

slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.


Except as a philosophy it does seem to rely on everyone being equally logical and assumes everyone operates with self-aware profit motive in mind.

The libertarian theory seems completely unable to cope when faced with malice, self-injurious behaviors, or anything in which people are willing to act to their own detriment in order to spite another. Libertarians, for instance, can't understand the meanness factor in the Obamacare debate, something that needs to be understood if its to be dealt with.

There, no ad Homs or flames.
 
2013-05-26 02:19:59 PM

sheep snorter: Libertarian platform.
http://www.lp.org/platform
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

In the following pages we have set forth our basic principles and enumerated various policy stands derived from those principles.

These specific policies are not our goal, however. Our goal is nothing more nor less than a world set free in our lifetime, and it is to this end that we take these stands.

/Quit farking with others who are different and quit going to war because some rich fark told you too.
//But the rightwing religious echo chamber makes it appear that those words mean to build your own walled compound and shoot everything that moves outside of it.


Cool story, bro.  I hate roads, schools, fire departments, safe food and police departments, too.
 
2013-05-26 02:20:18 PM

sheep snorter: build your own walled compound and shoot everything that moves outside of it.



see, that's the problem, that very well could be "a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others."    Libertarians are often either paying lip service to their rhetoric, or  obfuscating their real motives.
 
2013-05-26 02:22:04 PM

FloydA: Satanic_Hamster:

But the conditions in Bangladesh have been well known for years.  It's not a question of not having perfect knowledge, it's a question of most consumers not even caring.

You're right, most consumers just didn't bother doing the research that would be required to make an informed decision.  That's another limitation to the libertarian ideal.  Failure of the system doesn't even require someone to be a dick; simple apathy is sufficient to cause it to break down.


Reminds me of the whole Chick-Fil-A gay thing when people were boycotting the restaurant and conservatives were complaining that it was a form of intimidation and infringed on their right to self-expression.

Proved what a lot of crap that Libertarian argument is.
 
2013-05-26 02:22:57 PM
"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." - Kim Stanley Robinson
 
2013-05-26 02:26:14 PM

gimmegimme: Mrtraveler01: FloydA: That's my argument against libertarianism. Nothing to do with ad hominims. Nothing to do with flaming. Just pointing out that it is completely impractical for the society in which we live.

That and overly simplistic and naive.

Libertarianism only works if everyone plays along. But as we know, it's human nature for at least one person to be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us. Hence why Libertarianism doesn't work.

Socialist parking lot:



Libertarian parking lot:


Well in my libertarian paradise women would not be allowed to drive so that wouldn't be an issue.
 
2013-05-26 02:28:30 PM

Snubnose: Mrtraveler01: slayer199: It's a pretty simple philosophy. You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.

And where is that line defined? And what happens if WHEN someone wants to be a dick and cross that line?
FTFY


Pretty much. Some people are dicks for money, power or other reasons benefitting themselves. Some people are dicks simply because it amuses them. Trolling is a prime example.
 
2013-05-26 02:39:11 PM

slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.


Um... how does one ad hominem a philosophy? Isn't that just called a critique?
 
2013-05-26 02:41:02 PM

Kome: slayer199: Darth_Lukecash: Libertarians: idiots who believe that people's worth is directly tied into how much money they make. And the more money you make makes you that much moral.

Liberals:  idiots that think their worth is directly tied to how much they can you redistribute wealth. the more you can redistribute wealth,  the more moral you are.
Conservatives:  idiots that think that their worth is directly tied to how much of their morality they force on others.  The more morality they can enforce, that makes them that much more moral.

It somewhat amazes me how the only arguments against libertarianism are ad hominem attacks against the philosophy and those that believe it.  Flame on.

It's a pretty simple philosophy.  You're free to do whatever you'd like so long as your actions don't infringe on anyone else's freedom.  Libertarians believe there's responsibility that comes with that freedom.  That does not mean the typical Fark argument "LOL, Somalia" or anarchy.  It means limited government that exists to protect the rights and freedoms of others.

Um... how does one ad hominem a philosophy? Isn't that just called a critique?


media.pennlive.com

Philosophies are people, my friend!
 
2013-05-26 02:44:56 PM
There's an aspect to law that a lot of libertarians don't accept or recognize: that many of what they might consider "intrusive rules and regulations" were actually put in place by big businesses trying to prevent small businesses from becoming their competition. By forcing small ubusinesses to adhere to draconian rules and regulations, they make the barrier to entry higher.

Larger businesses also have the ability to prevent the "perfect knowledge" scenario cited above, needed for libertarianism to survive. Monsanto tried to force Oakhurst Dairy to remove "contains no rGBH" labels from their products, depriving the consumer of a piece of information needed to make an informed decision about whether to use milk produced at dairies using artificial growth hormone.

That's the fatal flaw for libertarianism - that giving an institution that much power can eventually disrupt the core necessity for a libertarian society: the information needed to make good personal and individual decisions. I'm old enough to remember tobacco lobbyists trying to convince Congress that cigarettes were a perfectly safe, delicious start to a busy day. Today, it's the oil companies trying to throw enough rocks into the river to convince us that we can continue to use their products without consequences for eternity. (And not just AGW; think about all the right-wing conspiracy theorists who have somehow become convinced that oil is a renewable resource, popular among the YEC crowd.)

True libertarianism, it seems, would be against all forms of individual regulation by overweening institutionalism. This would include corporate regulation, religious regulation, and social regulation. Modern libertarianism focuses only on the weakest of these - government regulation. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with libertarians if they'd go after, say, Monsanto as well, or Archer Daniels Midland, or ExxonMobil. Or megachurches out to ban gay marriage. Somehow, though, that would be an affront to FREEDOMS.
 
2013-05-26 02:45:10 PM
gallery.burrowowl.net
 
2013-05-26 02:45:49 PM
gimmegimme:

[media.pennlive.com image 380x253]

Philosophies are people, my friend!


[spit-take.gif]
 
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