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(Sun Journal (Maine))   Good news: Summer's almost here. Bad news: That means more ticks. Good news: There's a drug to treat Lyme Disease. Bad news: Not much of it   (sunjournal.com) divider line 58
    More: Scary, Lyme disease, Amy Klobuchar, Lyme  
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2735 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2013 at 11:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-26 10:10:14 AM  
My sister has chronic Lyme disease, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

That's probably part of the reason the ONLY thing I freak out at are ticks.  Even the larger dog ticks, which do not carry Lymes, at the sight of one on my clothes, I need to get in the shower and do a full tick check.  NASTY little things.  I'd rather see a snake made of spiders than a single tick.
 
2013-05-26 11:07:16 AM  

nekom: My sister has chronic Lyme disease, so I'm getting a kick, etc.


You might want to get your sister to an actual board certified infectious disease physician. Considering there is a lot of evidence that Chronic Lyme Disease is - at best  - a dubious diagnosis, and at worse, a misdiagnosis of another condition.

In addition, you don't want to take Doxycycline long term. It can do serious harm to your body, especially your teeth and bone mineralization.
 
2013-05-26 11:09:16 AM  

nekom: My sister has chronic Lyme disease, so I'm getting a kick, etc.


A better article on the matter.
 
2013-05-26 11:18:16 AM  

hardinparamedic: nekom: My sister has chronic Lyme disease, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

You might want to get your sister to an actual board certified infectious disease physician. Considering there is a lot of evidence that Chronic Lyme Disease is - at best  - a dubious diagnosis, and at worse, a misdiagnosis of another condition.

In addition, you don't want to take Doxycycline long term. It can do serious harm to your body, especially your teeth and bone mineralization.


I'm not sure what they have her on, but I couldn't agree more that the diagnosis is tricky.  For years she was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, which seems to be a catch-all term they use for "unexplained joint pain".  I know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.
 
2013-05-26 11:31:55 AM  

nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.


I'm not a doctor, but if whoever she is seeing has diagnosed her with chronic lyme disease, and she is getting strong enough medications to require a PICC Line because of this, you really need to tell her to get a second opinion from a university-affiliated ID specialist.
 
2013-05-26 11:37:14 AM  
Spoooooooooooooooon!
 
2013-05-26 11:40:13 AM  
The ticks are really bad at my house - mostly they're the Lone Star ticks, which from what I have read, don't carry Lyme's disease, but nonetheless they're horrible.  You cannot even walk across the yard or go to the post box to get the mail without getting at least one tick, unless you douse yourself with bug repellant.  Its so bad I have to put on OFF just to walk from the front door of the house out to the car.  My property is heavily wooded, I know ticks are a fact of life in the woods, but I've never, ever, seen them as bad as I do here.  Sometimes I wonder if thats one of the reasons this house/property sold so cheaply.
 
2013-05-26 11:46:42 AM  
Thank goodness I live in the heart of the city.
 
2013-05-26 11:46:55 AM  
Ticks would have been really helpful against Sauron in Lord of the Rings, I tell you what.
 
2013-05-26 11:48:10 AM  
The good news:  Lyme disease comes with your choice of toppings?
 
2013-05-26 11:48:16 AM  
hilltownsvetclinic.com
 
2013-05-26 11:49:04 AM  
Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.
 
Skr
2013-05-26 11:51:08 AM  
so cut production by 50%
increase price by 1000%
profit?

this supply/demand thing irks me when it seems it is saving the lives of the highest bidder.
Found a few ticks on me already this year, one reason I am thankful for being hairy, can feel the blasted thing crawling on me (even hours after they have had a baptism of Bic fire).

On a side note, a few years back I started powdering the carpets/dog with Diatomaceous Earth to get rid of a case of fleas. Fleas disappeared quick and additionally I haven't found a single tick on the dog. Perhaps coincidence on the tick part, but I'm not complaining. D.E. dries things out something fierce so keep it away from eyes and make sure it is the food grade stuff, as the industrial grade will burn.
 
2013-05-26 11:59:36 AM  
Good thing drug companies exist to help people, and wouldn't dare create artificial scarcity for more profit. I'm certain they'll flood the market with this drug as soon as they can and let the price bottom out.
 
2013-05-26 12:00:48 PM  
www.moreofmetolove.com
so, who's my tick-check buddy?
 
2013-05-26 12:07:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor, but if whoever she is seeing has diagnosed her with chronic lyme disease, and she is getting strong enough medications to require a PICC Line because of this, you really need to tell her to get a second opinion from a university-affiliated ID specialist.


Why university-affiliated?
 
2013-05-26 12:11:59 PM  
Good News: The ticks come with a free frogurt.
 
2013-05-26 12:14:33 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Good thing drug companies exist to help people, and wouldn't dare create artificial scarcity for more profit. I'm certain they'll flood the market with this drug as soon as they can and let the price bottom out.


If necessary FDA is empowered to let competitors make a drug even while it's under patent, and "necessary" looks like the right word for a multi-state infectious disease that is best treated by doxycycline. I'm not sure but it looks like FDA has already done that and that's why other companies are making it. But then why is there still a shortage... that can indicate real underlying manufacturing shortfalls or it can indicate the "competing" companies have begun cartel formation. Which is several kinds of illegal although hard to prove.

And that (like the article says) could be solved by opening up to even even more makers, maybe even outside the USA.
 
2013-05-26 12:22:26 PM  

Bravo Two: hardinparamedic: university-affiliated ID specialist.

Why university-affiliated?


Being affiliated with anybody, anybody at all is a good sign. If no other pox docs will put their name up with your pox doc he may not know anything about real poxes.

And the university part? I'm guessing, hardinparamedic may mean because Lyme disease is under a lot of research right now; or because the professional Chronic Lyme Disease doctors claim to be doing their own research and so it helps to talk to a real current academic. Or both.
 
2013-05-26 12:23:37 PM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

From a friend:

Apply a glob of liquid soap to a cotton ball. Cover the tick with the soap-soaked cotton ball and swab it for a few seconds (15-20 ); the tick will come out on its own and stick to the cotton ball when you lift it away.

If you just pull a tick their heads sometimes break off and are left under the skin so this is much safer. Be aware also that a tick with a white speck on its back is a Deer Tick, these can cause Tick Fever so check yourself and your family if you see any of these.
 
2013-05-26 12:25:10 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.


Scurvey, vitamin c, Royal Navy.
 
2013-05-26 12:27:38 PM  

Jacob_Roberson: And the university part? I'm guessing, hardinparamedic may mean because Lyme disease is under a lot of research right now; or because the professional Chronic Lyme Disease doctors claim to be doing their own research and so it helps to talk to a real current academic. Or both.


This. In addition to the fact that when dealing with a University, you're not only guaranteed to be dealing with a high volume infectious disease practice, but with experienced and evidence-based attending physicians.
 
2013-05-26 12:29:21 PM  
Doxy is also used to treat heartworm infection in dogs, either as a slow-kill method (combined with ivermectin long-term) or for a 1-2 month treatment before the melarsomine injection (the likes of which was still only available from Europe last time we needed it a year ago). My contacts working in rescue who are fostering heartworm-positive dogs are DESPERATE for doxy, even asking people to send it to the under the table, whether labeled appropriately or as the Bird Biotic. Even the OTC Bird Biotic (off-label usage for dogs) is starting to become scarce, except for the powder dosages.

It is criminal that these drugs go on "indefinite backorder" or have the price raised significantly like this. While we can get doxy CAPSULES, they are unable to be split for smaller dogs. A bottle of 1000 tablets was over $1200 last time my manager price-checked them.

As for Lyme, there are now some better vaccines out there when it comes to dogs, but I'm still hesitant to be giving my dog one more jab. I'll stick with a good flea/tick preventative (pesticides though they may be) and take my chances when it comes to myself.
 
2013-05-26 12:35:05 PM  

TwiztidDream: It is criminal that these drugs go on "indefinite backorder" or have the price raised significantly like this. While we can get doxy CAPSULES, they are unable to be split for smaller dogs. A bottle of 1000 tablets was over $1200 last time my manager price-checked them.


Dude, forget Doxy. We can't even get basic lifesaving drugs used in cardiac arrest management and diabetic emergencies..
 
2013-05-26 12:39:42 PM  

Giltric: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.

Scurvey, vitamin c, Royal Navy.


Rum, sodomy, and the lash.
 
2013-05-26 12:40:19 PM  
Towermonkey:
Rum, sodomy, and the lash.

I see someone went to their first BDSM munch last night.
 
2013-05-26 12:42:17 PM  
Well, sodomy, anyway, at least according to several Deep South states. The wife doesn't much care for being struck, and I have to work today so little to no rum.
 
2013-05-26 12:44:30 PM  

Towermonkey: The wife doesn't much care for being struck, and I have to work today so little to no rum.


Don't knock the former until you've tried it, in that case.

It's spectacular.
 
2013-05-26 12:46:52 PM  
Yeah, we tried it once or twice. Not her thing, but she enjoys the sodomy (or at least doesn't complain) so I guess it balances out.
 
2013-05-26 12:46:56 PM  

nekom: My sister has chronic Lyme disease, so I'm getting a kick, etc.

That's probably part of the reason the ONLY thing I freak out at are ticks.  Even the larger dog ticks, which do not carry Lymes, at the sight of one on my clothes, I need to get in the shower and do a full tick check.  NASTY little things.  I'd rather see a snake made of spiders than a single tick.


Sigh.

I am a physician who has written some articles on Lyme, and used to practice in very Lyme-heavy areas. Chronic Lyme probably does not exist. A post-Lyme syndrome of nonspecific aches/pains lasting for a few months may be real and have some biological plausibility.

This does not mean your sister does not feel awful. What's more, tetracyclines have a mild anti-inflammatory effect, like aspirin, so people with chronic aches and pains sometimes feel better on them.

One problem is that the "Lyme literate doctor" she is seeing is taking her hard-earned money. Another is that the chronic antibiotics may be doing her more harm than good.

Another is that the attention to Lyme may prevent her from being worked up for other diseases. Babesia coninfection is often overlooked; Anaplasma is usually treated with doxycycline coindicentally, but if amoxicillin or ceftriaxone are used, Anaplasma may go untreated. Depression, fibromylagia, autoimmune diseases, etc. are all alternative diagnoses.

I have personally diagnosed someone's bile duct cancer after he came to me for Lyme. I knew something wasn't right and scanned his belly. He needed surgery and chemo, survived a few more years. Another guy turned out to have prostate CA with metastasis to the lungs. (He was treated by a "Lyme literate" doc who has since lost his license, probably for giving years of i.v. antibiotics to people who didn't need them.)

The Infectious Diseases Society of America has had their guidelines reviewed completely in response to an insane anti-trust suit by that asshole Blumenthal, the former AG of CT. They stand by them.

Get her to see an Infectious Diseases doc. She or he will expend considerable effort to look for other things that could be making her feel awful. And will be MUCH MUCH CHEAPER and covered by insurance.

http://www.idsociety.org/Lyme/
 
2013-05-26 01:00:01 PM  
Had Lyme disease. Completely destroyed my knees and hips. Was closing in on killing me.

These guys cured me ...  http://www.sierraintegrative.com/ ... (can't help they feature Randy on the front page)

These guys rebuilt the cartilage in knees and hips without surgery or pharma ...  http://www.antiagingmedicine.com/

No lingering symptoms of Lymes; active and ranching again. No drugs or AMA nonsense.

But I gotta tell you Lyme sucks. Really sucks.
 
2013-05-26 01:00:27 PM  
I was the buyer in a mid-size hospital pharmacy until this past February. Over the last two years it's been difficult, sometimes impossible, to get Morphine, Dilaudid, Tetracycline, Doxycycline, Bactrim, Versed, Fentanyl, Propofol, and many IV chemo drugs. What I learned from the drug reps, which I know is sketchy at best, is that smaller manufacturers of generic drugs would discontinue production without prompting the FDA or any of their competitors so no one has time to ramp up their supply.  Hell, there were times where we couldn't get IV Sodium Bicarb because of this.  It's freaking baking soda! I'm so glad to be out of that business.
 
2013-05-26 01:00:33 PM  
  Interesting, how the "live saving" drugs are in short supply but I would like to know is oxycotin?  I call bullshiat on big pharma.  They are pissing on us and telling us it is raining.  Just like the flu vaccine this past  year was not really effective yet tamaflu is ridiculously expensive during flu season and not necessarily covered on all insurances. Coincidence?       And the ridiculous pricing on cancer drugs. WTF?      Talk about taking advantage of sick people.  I don't believe in hell but I wish I did because these bastards need to go there and burn, along with big oil too.


/adjusts tin foil hat
//get off my lawn
 
2013-05-26 01:02:53 PM  

hardinparamedic: TwiztidDream: It is criminal that these drugs go on "indefinite backorder" or have the price raised significantly like this. While we can get doxy CAPSULES, they are unable to be split for smaller dogs. A bottle of 1000 tablets was over $1200 last time my manager price-checked them.

Dude, forget Doxy. We can't even get basic lifesaving drugs used in cardiac arrest management and diabetic emergencies..


There are shortages all over the place now of a bunch of things.  Hell, I can't even get my PPD done, and I've been trying for the past 2 months.
 
2013-05-26 01:04:52 PM  

hardinparamedic: TwiztidDream: It is criminal that these drugs go on "indefinite backorder" or have the price raised significantly like this. While we can get doxy CAPSULES, they are unable to be split for smaller dogs. A bottle of 1000 tablets was over $1200 last time my manager price-checked them.

Dude, forget Doxy. We can't even get basic lifesaving drugs used in cardiac arrest management and diabetic emergencies..


I wasn't deliberately leaving them out. Just that this is a drug that impacts both veterinary and human medical fields, even if NOT to the extent that cardiac arrest meds, chemo, diabetic drugs, etc, do.
 
2013-05-26 01:05:25 PM  

hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor,


So STFU.

Lyme exists. It doesn't matter what you think.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-26 01:12:07 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor,

So STFU.

Lyme exists. It doesn't matter what you think.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x285]


Don't be disingenuous.  No one said Lyme disease doesn't exist; the acute form most assuredly does.  Chronic Lyme, on the other hand, probably doesn't.
 
2013-05-26 01:16:52 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor,

So STFU.

Lyme exists. It doesn't matter what you think.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x285]


HE's not saying lyme doesn't exist, he's saying chronic lyme is, at current, up there with 'morgellan's' in "This is not a recognized condition."
 
2013-05-26 01:20:30 PM  

Skr: so cut production by 50%
increase price by 1000%
profit?

this supply/demand thing irks me when it seems it is saving the lives of the highest bidder.
Found a few ticks on me already this year, one reason I am thankful for being hairy, can feel the blasted thing crawling on me (even hours after they have had a baptism of Bic fire).

On a side note, a few years back I started powdering the carpets/dog with Diatomaceous Earth to get rid of a case of fleas. Fleas disappeared quick and additionally I haven't found a single tick on the dog. Perhaps coincidence on the tick part, but I'm not complaining. D.E. dries things out something fierce so keep it away from eyes and make sure it is the food grade stuff, as the industrial grade will burn.

 
2013-05-26 02:09:38 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.


No
 
2013-05-26 02:11:54 PM  

Reverend Monkeypants: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.

No


I'mma quote myself here.  GOD BLESS the internet for giving us a world of information at out fingertips but fark it for filling soft minds with easy and inaccurate bullshiate
 
2013-05-26 02:30:03 PM  
How much does it cost to get a blood test for Lyme for people? It cost $30 for our dog and another $35 for the vaccination.

I'm guessing for people it is much more expensive.
 
2013-05-26 02:55:35 PM  

EkimProx: Ticks would have been really helpful against Sauron in Lord of the Rings, I tell you what.


img829.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-26 02:56:43 PM  

Carth: How much does it cost to get a blood test for Lyme for people? It cost $30 for our dog and another $35 for the vaccination.


Testing isn't terribly reliable. Since the spirochete is only present in the circulation for a short time window it's difficult to use direct detection methods such as PCR, and host antibodies usually don't appear until infection is clinically obvious anyway. Antibodies can also remain in circulation for years after an infection, and some tests have trouble differentiating lyme from a prior syphilis infection. I don't know much about veterinary medicine, but I could imagine that late-stage testing may be more useful in situations where the patient can't describe why they feel poorly.

As far as I know, the vaccine is not currently available for use in humans. It was fairly effective, but there were some reports of side effects and despite the failure of repeated FDA studies to find a link with the vaccine the media raised a shiatstorm and people stopped buying it. It's a sad story, reviewed in nature here: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7076/full/439524a.html
 
2013-05-26 03:06:24 PM  
I pulled a tick off my neck the other night.  *shudder*  Luckily, it hadn't dug in yet, and was just cruising around. I've had dreams of ticks every night since.

/they haunt me
 
2013-05-26 03:08:23 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor,

So STFU.

Lyme exists. It doesn't matter what you think.


I am a doctor who had thoroughly reviewed the literature on Lyme. Chronic Lyme probably does not exist.

Plus, a trial of 24 weeks of iv antibiotics vs placebo showed no benefit.

That is not a statement that people labeled as "Chronic Lyme" do not feel sick. Just that they likely have the wrong perp.
 
2013-05-26 03:38:19 PM  

lake_huron: Your Average Witty Fark User: hardinparamedic: nekom: know she drives well over an hour to see her specialist, so I'm guessing he has some specific knowledge related to it since she can't find anyone closer.  Whatever she's on she has an IV pic line most of the time.

I'm not a doctor,

So STFU.

Lyme exists. It doesn't matter what you think.

I am a doctor who had thoroughly reviewed the literature on Lyme. Chronic Lyme probably does not exist.

Plus, a trial of 24 weeks of iv antibiotics vs placebo showed no benefit.

That is not a statement that people labeled as "Chronic Lyme" do not feel sick. Just that they likely have the wrong perp.


Point added in support: there has never, ever, ever been a documented case of Borrelia burgdorferi (the causative agent of Lyme) that is resistant to antibiotics.  Thus, the likelihood that there could be a chronic infection that requires a prolonged course of many months is implausible (if I'm being generous) or not bloody likely (if I'm being honest).
 
2013-05-26 03:58:50 PM  

Towermonkey: Giltric: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Interesting little bit of history: on the 1700's when British colonists started moving into the American wilderness en masse, the tick problem was so bad that at any given time, up to 3/4 of British men had Lyme disease. Hence, the popular slang term "Lymey" which is still in use to this day.

Scurvey, vitamin c, Royal Navy.

Rum, sodomy, and the lash.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vs3t4Y_Z6EI

Great album.
 
2013-05-26 03:59:18 PM  
And the drug contains potassium benzoate.
 
2013-05-26 04:03:31 PM  

thebravetoast: Carth: How much does it cost to get a blood test for Lyme for people? It cost $30 for our dog and another $35 for the vaccination.

Testing isn't terribly reliable. Since the spirochete is only present in the circulation for a short time window it's difficult to use direct detection methods such as PCR, and host antibodies usually don't appear until infection is clinically obvious anyway. Antibodies can also remain in circulation for years after an infection, and some tests have trouble differentiating lyme from a prior syphilis infection. I don't know much about veterinary medicine, but I could imagine that late-stage testing may be more useful in situations where the patient can't describe why they feel poorly.

As far as I know, the vaccine is not currently available for use in humans. It was fairly effective, but there were some reports of side effects and despite the failure of repeated FDA studies to find a link with the vaccine the media raised a shiatstorm and people stopped buying it. It's a sad story, reviewed in nature here: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7076/full/439524a.html


Thanks for the link. I was curious why I could protect my dog from Lyme for $30 but not myself.
 
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