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(Reuters)   Don't want to alarm anyone, but it seems the Big Banks weren't being honest when they said they'd stop abusive mortgage practices   (reuters.com) divider line 28
    More: Obvious, Eric Schneiderman, Smith Report, mortgage modifications, Wells Fargo, New York Attorney General, loan servicing, state attorney general, JPMorgan Chase & Co.  
•       •       •

1656 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 May 2013 at 12:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-25 11:34:49 AM  
Stunning.
Truly.
 
2013-05-25 01:08:42 PM  
jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-25 01:08:59 PM  
They weren't so much interested in ending their illegal behavior as they were interested in making sure that they wouldn't face criminal prosecution for fraudulently stealing people's homes.
 
2013-05-25 01:11:19 PM  
This just in: WATER IS WET!
 
2013-05-25 01:11:31 PM  
Never again.
No banks, no credit cards.
 
2013-05-25 01:12:25 PM  
If we truly want them to knock this behavior off, the only way to do that is through less oversight and more public money.
 
2013-05-25 01:13:14 PM  
www.jonesing4movies.com
 
2013-05-25 01:27:40 PM  
FDR and the Democrats had balls back in the '30s.  They kicked ass, took names on Wall Street, and did what it took to reform the banks.  On the backs of those reforms, the U.S. soared politically and economically.

It was a pretty good run, America.  Not as good as the Brits between Waterloo and WWI, but a good run nonetheless.
 
2013-05-25 01:31:48 PM  
None of this will stop until banksters start going to jail.
 
2013-05-25 01:52:47 PM  

Heraclitus: None of this will stop until banksters start going to jail.

And the banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place. - Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL)
 
2013-05-25 02:00:16 PM  
It bothers me that my mortgage interest goes to Wells Fargo. I don't suppose there is anything I could have done to prevent this? I did not sign a mortgage with them; they bought my debt soon after I closed. It's probably impossible to negotiate with a mortgage bank that they are not allowed to sell the mortgage and must service it for the life of the loan.
 
2013-05-25 03:10:03 PM  
Until people start going to prison it will NEVER stop.

/when one can buy "not guilty" with your ill gotten gains, it's time to burn the system down and start over.
 
2013-05-25 04:50:36 PM  
Don't worry guys, I'm sure that THIS time heads will roll! C-level execs and board members will do hard time in a PMITA prison, and the banks will face fines that will make them think twice before pulling this shiat again. There's no way our noble politicians will let them off with a fine that is a fraction of the amount that they made with their illegal activities. Nope, no way, no how.
 
2013-05-25 04:57:24 PM  
Well why would they? It'd be like if you or I went and robbed an ATM of $50,000, and as punishment we were fined $10,000, but got to keep the original $50k.
 
2013-05-25 05:28:09 PM  

jayhawk88: Well why would they? It'd be like if you or I went and robbed an ATM of $50,000, and as punishment we were fined $10,000, but got to keep the original $50k.


QFT.

I keep ~$1 in my BoA account and periodically deposit a bit just so they have to maintain it.

Credit union paid me a cut for transferring last credit card balance to them. Last time I set foot in a BoA branch they wanted to charge a $12 teller fee. Never again
 
2013-05-25 07:26:11 PM  
"Give a man a gun and he can can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." -- Anonymous
 
2013-05-25 07:40:53 PM  
Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral.

There is only one solution to this. Never borrow again.
 
2013-05-25 07:44:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral.

There is only one solution to this. Never borrow again.


You're so clueless even your ass is dumb.
 
2013-05-25 09:07:40 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

 
2013-05-25 10:41:30 PM  

BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them


That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.
 
2013-05-25 11:09:29 PM  

buzzcut73: BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.


Oh, what they are doing is far worse than that.  Get ready for a tl; dr:

My wife lost her job in 2009, exactly a year after we bought our first house.  Her salary was three times mine, so it was a big loss.  We paid our mortgage for another year scrimping by while begging for a refi or a loan modification, but they refused.  They wouldn't let us short sell the house, either, because it had lost almost 50% of its value since our purchase.

So in early 2011, we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.  My wife was still unemployed, we had gone through our savings, and we reached a point where we just couldn't pay it.  THAT got their attention, but not in a good way.  They put us into one of the loss mitigation programs that are supposed to adjust your mortgage.  They get federal money for it.  You fill out a hardship application, and in four months they are supposed to present an answer to you:  either you get a modification or they foreclose.

So here's what Chase is doing:  every four months, they send us a letter claiming we didn't fill out a form correctly, and we have to file for a loan modification again.  That starts the process over again.  We copy everything we submit, we've never filed an incorrect application, but that's beside the point for the bank.  What it means is that they don't have to make a decision until the value of the house goes up again, which is never going to happen. It also means we don't have to pay our mortgage, but the title remains in our name.  Why is that important?

Until the title transfers, we're on the hook for the house.  The bank doesn't want a property in the middle of nowhere with a lot of land and a high upkeep cost, so as long as they don't make a decision, they don't have to worry about it.  I can't sell the house, I can't rent it, and I am doing minimal upkeep because at this point, there's no way they're going to let us keep it, but I can't leave it to nature because the title is still in my name.  I still pay insurance on the house.

I never thought I'd reach a point where a foreclosure would be welcome, but what the banks are doing now is essentially grabbing free maintenance on houses they should foreclose on because they can't sell them for anywhere near what is owed on the loan.  They are using loan modification programs to draw out foreclosures indefinitely.  It's like a modern day debtor's prison.

And here's the kicker, in early 2012, my wife found a job and while it didn't pay as much as her old one, it was more than enough for us to start making payments again.  So we called Chase and said "Hurrah!  We can make payments again!  Let's work something out!"  And they said no.  They have no intention of letting us keep the house, but they don't want to take it back, either.  So we've been in limbo for over two years.
 
2013-05-26 12:43:32 AM  

Lsherm: buzzcut73: BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.

Oh, what they are doing is far worse than that.  Get ready for a tl; dr:

My wife lost her job in 2009, exactly a year after we bought our first house.  Her salary was three times mine, so it was a big loss.  We paid our mortgage for another year scrimping by while begging for a refi or a loan modification, but they refused.  They wouldn't let us short sell the house, either, because it had lost almost 50% of its value since our purchase.

So in early 2011, we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.  My wife was still unemployed, we had gone through our savings, and we reached a point where we just couldn't pay it.  THAT got their attention, but not in a good way.  They put us into one of the loss mitigation programs that are supposed to adjust your mortgage.  They get federal money for i ...


They aren't going to sell that house anyway.   You're half right, in that they'd rather you do the maintenance on it than them, but you're wrong in your reasoning for them not wanting it.   On their books, the value of your mortgage is whatever you bought the house at.   If they forclose, the value on their books is whatever you bought the house at.   And it will stay at that value for as long as they hold it, no matter what the market does.   The house could be set upon by a swarm of locusts, and their books don't change at all until they sell it.   At that point, the valuation changes.  So in short, if the house is under water, it is to their benefit to hold onto it.   It's worth more on their balance sheet if they do.   GAAP provides this particular scam to banks, which is why we are one of the last countries in the world that still uses GAAP, and actively fighting the change to IFRS, where assets are re-valued every year to reflect the market.
 
2013-05-26 02:36:11 AM  
Anything remotely connected to real estate isn't honest.
 
2013-05-26 03:41:32 AM  

Rent Party: Lsherm: buzzcut73: BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.

Oh, what they are doing is far worse than that.  Get ready for a tl; dr:

My wife lost her job in 2009, exactly a year after we bought our first house.  Her salary was three times mine, so it was a big loss.  We paid our mortgage for another year scrimping by while begging for a refi or a loan modification, but they refused.  They wouldn't let us short sell the house, either, because it had lost almost 50% of its value since our purchase.

So in early 2011, we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.  My wife was still unemployed, we had gone through our savings, and we reached a point where we just couldn't pay it.  THAT got their attention, but not in a good way.  They put us into one of the loss mitigation programs that are supposed to adjust your mortgage.  They get federal money for i ...

They aren't going to sell that house anyway.   You're half right, in that they'd rather you do the maintenance on it than them, but you're wrong in your reasoning for them not wanting it.   On their books, the value of your mortgage is whatever you bought the house at.   If they forclose, the value on their books is whatever you bought the house at.   And it will stay at that value for as long as they hold it, no matter what the market does.   The house could be set upon by a swarm of locusts, and their books don't change at all until they sell it.   At that point, the valuation changes.  So in short, if the house is under water, it is to their benefit to hold onto it.   It's worth more on their balance sheet if they do.   GAAP provides this particular scam to banks, which is why we are one of the last countries in the world that still uses GAAP, and actively fighting the change to IFRS, where assets are re-valued every year to reflect the market.


An agent near me has noticed an increase in abandonments with "damage", but not the kind you think of in a situation like this. Apparently people are opening up holes in the roof and siding, not terribly large, less than the size of a dime. That's important because it makes them easy for the bank (or realtor) to overlook.

These houses sit for months, sometimes years. He walks into one that looks fine, all the plumbing (et al.), but there is an odd smell. There is a bubbling in the ceilings upstairs.

After an inspection, they find about a dozen small holes. The house is rotting (slowly) inside out. This is the fifth house like that in a year. They're getting worried, realtors, because not even fixers / flippers really want a house with a rotting frame.
 
2013-05-26 06:13:44 AM  

Rent Party: Lsherm: buzzcut73: BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.

Oh, what they are doing is far worse than that.  Get ready for a tl; dr:

My wife lost her job in 2009, exactly a year after we bought our first house.  Her salary was three times mine, so it was a big loss.  We paid our mortgage for another year scrimping by while begging for a refi or a loan modification, but they refused.  They wouldn't let us short sell the house, either, because it had lost almost 50% of its value since our purchase.

So in early 2011, we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.  My wife was still unemployed, we had gone through our savings, and we reached a point where we just couldn't pay it.  THAT got their attention, but not in a good way.  They put us into one of the loss mitigation programs that are supposed to adjust your mortgage.  They get federal money for i ...

They aren't going to sell that house anyway.   You're half right, in that they'd rather you do the maintenance on it than them, but you're wrong in your reasoning for them not wanting it.   On their books, the value of your mortgage is whatever you bought the house at.   If they forclose, the value on their books is whatever you bought the house at.   And it will stay at that value for as long as they hold it, no matter what the market does.   The house could be set upon by a swarm of locusts, and their books don't change at all until they sell it.   At that point, the valuation changes.  So in short, if the house is under water, it is to their benefit to hold onto it.   It's worth more on their balance sheet if they do.   GAAP provides this particular scam to banks, which is why we are one of the last countries in the world that still uses GAAP, and actively fighting the change to IFRS, where assets are re-valued every year to reflect the market.


Where the hell do you get that? If anything, IFRS is more lenient on marking of assets to market value.
 
2013-05-26 06:21:54 AM  

Lsherm: buzzcut73: BullBearMS: Debeo Summa Credo: Man, I hate it when banks make me pay back the money they loaned to me! And then, when I don't pay them back, they have the absolute gall to take possession of collateral. use fraudulent forged documents to take people's homes from them

That's the thing that pisses me off about the people that white knight for the banks. If you or I, or anybody else, dared bring cases against people in court and presented fraudulent documentation as evidence, we'd be tossed in jail in a minute. Even if people are behind in payments and deserve to be foreclosed on, they should still have to provide proper documentation to prove that they have standing, If they don't, they need to find it, not make it up. Until then, the case should be dismissed.

What they were doing was no better than me saying I bought your car note from somebody else, and falsifying documents that said so after repossessing your vehicle. Even if I had bought the note, if I don't have the documents to back it up, I would not expect to have the right to do so. Just because BOA and Wells are multi-billion dollar banks doesn't give them the right to subvert the court system.

Oh, what they are doing is far worse than that.  Get ready for a tl; dr:

My wife lost her job in 2009, exactly a year after we bought our first house.  Her salary was three times mine, so it was a big loss.  We paid our mortgage for another year scrimping by while begging for a refi or a loan modification, but they refused.  They wouldn't let us short sell the house, either, because it had lost almost 50% of its value since our purchase.

So in early 2011, we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.  My wife was still unemployed, we had gone through our savings, and we reached a point where we just couldn't pay it.  THAT got their attention, but not in a good way.  They put us into one of the loss mitigation programs that are supposed to adjust your mortgage.  They get federal money for it.  You fill out a hardship application, and in four months they are supposed to present an answer to you:  either you get a modification or they foreclose.

So here's what Chase is doing:  every four months, they send us a letter claiming we didn't fill out a form correctly, and we have to file for a loan modification again.  That starts the process over again.  We copy everything we submit, we've never filed an incorrect application, but that's beside the point for the bank.  What it means is that they don't have to make a decision until the value of the house goes up again, which is never going to happen. It also means we don't have to pay our mortgage, but the title remains in our name.  Why is that important?

Until the title transfers, we're on the hook for the house.  The bank doesn't want a property in the middle of nowhere with a lot of land and a high upkeep cost, so as long as they don't make a decision, they don't have to worry about it.  I can't sell the house, I can't rent it, and I am doing minimal upkeep because at this point, there's no way they're going to let us keep it, but I can't leave it to nature because the title is still in my name.  I still pay insurance on the house.

I never thought I'd reach a point where a foreclosure would be welcome, but what the banks are doing now is essentially grabbing free maintenance on houses they should foreclose on because they can't sell them for anywhere near what is owed on the loan.  They are using loan modification programs to draw out foreclosures indefinitely.  It's like a modern day debtor's prison.

And here's the kicker, in early 2012, my wife found a job and while it didn't pay as much as her old one, it was more than enough for us to start making payments again.  So we called Chase and said "Hurrah!  We can make payments again!  Let's work something out!"  And they said no.  They have no intention of letting us keep the house, but they don't want to take it back, either.  So we've been in limbo for over two years.


If what you are saying is true, you've gotten free rent for two years for mowing the lawn on a house you have no intention to ever pay for. When te bank finally forecloses, it sounds like they'll be the ones on the hook for the loss in market value on the house you bought (unless you live in a recourse state, which it doesn't sound like from their not allowing a short sale). If anything, sounds you are the one getting a deal.
 
2013-05-26 09:27:01 AM  
All will be well, they have the right Mormon monitoring the settlement.
 
2013-05-26 03:56:10 PM  
This is approximately how surprised I am:

lh5.ggpht.com
 
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