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(STLToday)   Hobby Lobby says it is a ministry and should not have to pay fines under Obamacare   (stltoday.com) divider line 96
    More: Unlikely, Hobby Lobby, ministry, individual mandate  
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10196 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2013 at 5:28 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-05-24 11:57:37 PM
9 votes:
A business can't have religious beliefs.
2013-05-24 11:59:36 PM
8 votes:
So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.
2013-05-25 12:03:27 AM
7 votes:
Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.
2013-05-25 07:07:12 AM
5 votes:

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


My wife needs birth control, even though she is sterile, because of her otherwise out-of-control Endomitriosis. That's what ruined her ovaries in the first place. So I don't give a flying fark what you believe, hormonal contraception most certainly should be covered by health insurance.

If you think this issue is just about letting "whores" screw guys without consequences, then you are woefully, tragically uninformed.
2013-05-25 05:44:44 AM
5 votes:

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


According to the IRS and Federal Law, those religious beliefs A) Don't make it a "ministry" or a "charity", since it is a franchisee-owned for profit corporation, and B) Those religious beliefs don't give it exemption from federal law.

On another note, fark Hobby Lobby. After what they did to my girlfriend, I will never buy another thing from them. They cut her down to 16 hours a week, while making every male member of the staff a 32-hour a week employee so they wouldn't have to pay her any benefits.
2013-05-25 07:25:45 AM
4 votes:
If your religion, or 'morals' require that you deny health care to others, get some actual morals.
2013-05-25 05:46:15 AM
4 votes:

hardinparamedic: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

According to the IRS and Federal Law, those religious beliefs A) Don't make it a "ministry" or a "charity", since it is a franchisee-owned for profit corporation, and B) Those religious beliefs don't give it exemption from federal law.

On another note, fark Hobby Lobby. After what they did to my girlfriend, I will never buy another thing from them. They cut her down to 16 hours a week, while making every male member of the staff a 32-hour a week employee so they wouldn't have to pay her any benefits.


That sounds like an actionable claim for sexual discrimination.
2013-05-25 02:58:18 AM
4 votes:
Maybe if you stopped pricing your shiat double what the art stores sell it for (and triple what you can buy it for online) you could actually clear some of that outdated stock that's been sitting on the shelf for 5 years and be able to afford some proper insurance for your employees.
2013-05-25 02:10:13 AM
4 votes:
Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time
2013-05-25 12:05:29 AM
4 votes:

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


You'd think, right?

"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

I know that argument won't go anywhere, but it still gives me the farking chills.
2013-05-25 01:53:29 PM
3 votes:
Repeat after me: Employers cannot impose their religious preferences upon employees.
2013-05-25 01:48:00 PM
3 votes:

hasty ambush: Linux


Interesting info.  why is it that no one complained in the 80's when we started shipping our steel industry overseas and started outsourcing American jobs for cheap labor?

seems to me that the best way to reduce poverty and have tax paying jobs is to stop sending them overseas because some stockholder/owner felt he didn't make enough money last year.

and why have we sent so many jobs to communist china??  yea, its a communist state. just ask the CIA.

i hear the Right whine about taxes and the 'weight' of the poor/unemployed, yet the CONgress looks the other way when a company owner (Apple loves cheap overseas labor) ship his company manufacturing overseas, yet keeps the headquarters here in America because he likes our system.

the Rich and Big Business have our system/Nation gamed in their favor and it hurts the other half of this Country.  they get away with it because they own our Legislators.

that's not Democracy, that is Plutocracy.
2013-05-25 09:32:19 AM
3 votes:

Mugato: You know, if an employee of yours gets pregnant, you have to give her like 5 years maternity leave or whatever it's up to now. That might cost you a little more than letting the unholy harlot just have her Satanic baby killing potion.


You mean twelve weeks of unpaid leave? Twelve weeks is easy to mix up with five years, I understand the mistake.
2013-05-25 05:49:37 AM
3 votes:
Wild guess, they're all for boner pills.
2013-05-25 12:50:51 AM
3 votes:
Who would Jesus deprive of health care?
2013-05-25 12:13:31 AM
3 votes:

themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.


You mean like all those Prosperity Gospel Ministries?
2013-05-25 07:36:18 PM
2 votes:
Hasty Ambush
If you want to argue that  they should have to cove the use of birth control pill sfor a medical purpose other than birth control fine but you know that is not the crux of what this argument is about.

So now I have to provide documentation to my employer that my pills are for a disease and not for sex, eh? What the hell happened to patient privacy?

And what is to stop a sympathetic doctor from simply claimining that I have menstrual problems when I actually don't?

And nice job dodging my questions about theoretical situations regarding a Jehovah's Witness owned busienss and a Sciententolgy owned buisness.

Enemy of the State
The bottom line is that things like abortion and the morning after pill are things that a majority of Americans are either opposed to on moral grounds, or don't wish to have to pay for on moral grounds, even if they're OK with a woman having her right to choose. That is not an unreasonable point of view, and we're not talking about the feelings or beliefs of some whacko fringe group.

This is about HORMONAL BIRTH CONTROL, not abortion or the morning-after pill. Most Americans don't oppose the use of hormonal birth control.

And the company isn't paying for it, the insurance that the employee pays for is paying for it.
2013-05-25 05:17:13 PM
2 votes:

BolloxReader: Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.

First of all, pain control. First thing they do when a woman has chronic pain is eliminate that time of the month for her because hormonal peaks and valleys increase the already-present pain.  Secondly, there are a lot of drugs used today that result in miscarriage or damage fetuses. Third, medicine considers human birth to be a tremendously traumatic event. Until modern medicine, childbirth was the leading cause of death for women of childbearing age. The human form with our huge heads and our tiny pelvises are ill-suited to childbirth. For example, we are the only animal that literally tears its own pelvic bone during childbirth.

I understand I'm probably feeding a troll here, but birth control is a part of modern medicine. Period.


^All of this.  Thank you.  Biologist girlfriend and I often converse on how humans got the short end of the evolutionary stick in many respects, reproduction being one of the most terrifying.

/Another is our vertical spine.  We'd have a lot less back pain if we were built horizontally with a balancing tail like maniraptors.
//Prefer to get my fabric at Jo-Ann anyway.  Neat thing about them is they also have a policy that their fabric sources can't have discriminatory practices, poor working conditions, or child labor.
2013-05-25 04:46:13 PM
2 votes:

MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: MmmmBacon: That sounds like an actionable claim for sexual discrimination.

They made the claim it was because of performance issues, and shuffled a few people around. Despite the fact that she had exceptional comments from her manager.

She told them to go fark themselves this week. Davis Bridal hired her for a full time position, non-commission making 1.6x what she was making at Hobby Lobby.


So the free market worked. And worked out well for her.


"Hey, my sister left that guy who was beating her up."

"Did she press charges?"

"No, but she's dating someone else now, and he seems pretty cool."

"See?  I TOLD YOU that blind dates work out in the long run!"


/Also, I think you're in the running for "dumbest post in the thread," so you've got that going for you.
2013-05-25 04:35:33 PM
2 votes:

hasty ambush: MeanJean: Hasty Ambush

You are imposing your lifestyle on them by insisting they help finance your exchanging of bodily fluids with others.

Yeah, how dare I want my health insurance to cover the treatment of various debilitating hormone conditions that are treatable through hormonal birth control .

Would you be okay with a Scientology-owned business refusing to allow their employees to get psych meds? Or Jehovah's Witness owned busiensses refusing to cover blood transfusions?

If you want to argue that  they should have to cove the use of birth control pill sfor a medical purpose other than birth control fine but you know that is not the crux of what this argument is about.


If your employer feels drinking alcohol is sinful, should they have the right to ban you from spending your wages on beer? Should your employer have the right to require you to spend your paid vacation time on a missionary trip for their church?
2013-05-25 04:28:32 PM
2 votes:

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.


What you believe and reality are two different things.  Probably often, I would guess, but specifically in this case, there are other women's health issues at play, not just preventing (or otherwise dealing with) an unwanted pregnancy.

Even if your beliefs were congruent with reality, however. even if birth control were the ONLY issue here, it's still a question of a corporation trying to justify defying the law on religious grounds.  If you don't think it makes sense for the government to mandate this level of health coverage, then oppose such health coverage --- change the system, in other words, or get out of the game, but don't try to cheat.

Oh, yeah, that's right, the religious right DID fight this law tooth and nail... and lost.  Nobody appreciates them trying to do an end run after the game's been called.
2013-05-25 04:16:33 PM
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


Done in one - and I don't agree with CT often. If you're a for-profit company, you're required to follow the same laws every other for-profit company follows, regardless of the personal proclivities of your owners or directors.
2013-05-25 03:52:32 PM
2 votes:
Animatronik I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


1. Hormonal birth control isn't just for preventing pregnancy, its also for treating several health problems, like polycystic ovarian syndrome, endometriosis, etc.

2. Insurance companies (when not having right-wing idiots like Hobby Lobby trying to interfere) are generally happy to cover birth control, as covering pregnancy costs them much, much more.

3. Viagra is usually covered by insurance and it isn't used for reasons 1 and 2.

4. Getting insurance that covers birth control IS PAYING FOR YOUR OWN DAMN PROTECTION.

Do the world a favor and educate yourself before you open your ignorant mouth again.
2013-05-25 02:11:38 PM
2 votes:

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


First of all, pain control. First thing they do when a woman has chronic pain is eliminate that time of the month for her because hormonal peaks and valleys increase the already-present pain.  Secondly, there are a lot of drugs used today that result in miscarriage or damage fetuses. Third, medicine considers human birth to be a tremendously traumatic event. Until modern medicine, childbirth was the leading cause of death for women of childbearing age. The human form with our huge heads and our tiny pelvises are ill-suited to childbirth. For example, we are the only animal that literally tears its own pelvic bone during childbirth.

I understand I'm probably feeding a troll here, but birth control is a part of modern medicine. Period.
2013-05-25 10:45:25 AM
2 votes:

logic523: hasty ambush: Since the beginning of the War on Poverty, government has spent $19.8 trillion (in inflation-adjusted 2011 dollars) on means-tested welfare. In comparison, the cost of all military wars in U.S. history from the Revolutionary War through the current war in Afghanistan has been $6.98 trillion (in inflation-adjusted 2011 dollars).[3] The War on Poverty has cost three times as much as all other wars combined.

It seems to me that the cost of fighting poverty should be at least three times (better, ten times) the cost of wars.  Why would we want those numbers to be even close to similar?


You're talking about a group of people who complain that the War on Poverty was a failure while simultaneously posting things like this:

3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-05-25 10:25:50 AM
2 votes:

hasty ambush: It is not that Hobby Lobby does not pay taxes-they do. They probably paid a higher percentage in taxes than Apple or Google. They also pay their full time employees at least double the minimum wage for what is obviously not the most skilled labor. It provides jobs for over 20,000 people. That is ten times more than Obama's green energy program did Citation


If the Daily Caller says it, it must be true.

I also love how none of your welfare stuff was cited.
2013-05-25 10:05:29 AM
2 votes:

hasty ambush: Linux_Yes: another example of a few private individuals using Capital/wealth to bypass the Democratic (fading) process that has built this Nation and its Middle Class into the envy of the world.


yep, this is America being bled dry, by the same motherf*ckers who've benefited so much from our system.

It is not that Hobby Lobby does not pay taxes-they do. They probably paid a higher percentage in taxes than Apple or Google. They also pay their full time employees at least double the minimum wage for what is obviously not the most skilled labor. It provides jobs for over 20,000 people. That is ten times more than Obama's green energy program did Citation

Hobby Lobby just does not want to pay for what is a private matter between you and whoever your swapping bodily fluids with. If it is none of their business why should they have to finance it? If money is a problem you can get condoms for free at Planned Parent hood or at most public health clinics.

Yup Hobby Lobby is so evil.

If you want to know what is bleeding's us dry:

In FY 2011, federal spending on means-tested welfare came to $717 billion. State contributions into federal programs added another $201 billion, and independent state programs contributed around $9 billion. Total spending from all sources reached $927 billion. It will exceed $1 Trillion in 2013.

Mean tested welfare spending is now second only to combined Social Security and MEDICARE spending and exceeds defense spending.

Dividing total means-tested aid by all persons in the bottom third of the income distribution results in average welfare spending of $9,040 per person in 2011, or around $36,000 for a family of four.In addition, most of these lower-income families have earned income. Average earnings within the whole group are typically about $16,000 per year per family, though in the midst of a recession, earnings will be lower. If average welfare aid and average earnings are combined, the total resources is likely to come t ...


Well, what you do with your salary is also your business, not your employers. I guess they should not be required to pay you for your labor. Or perhaps they should be able to dictate what you spend your pay on, banning any purchases that offend their beliefs. Which would you prefer in the name of corporate religious liberty?
2013-05-25 09:50:42 AM
2 votes:
If they succeed, it will suck as before to be Black in the South.

People will justify breaking any law based on Christianity. Ask the KKK.
2013-05-25 09:45:37 AM
2 votes:

hasty ambush: It provides jobs for over 20,000 people


In the interest of accuracy: they have 13,000 full-time employees (in 41 states) who are eligible for benefits.

Here's a relevant quote from the owner during last year's original decision:


"It is by God's grace and provision that Hobby Lobby has endured. Therefore we seek to honor God by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles."

/I suspect the Pope would take issue with their interpretation of biblical principles.
2013-05-25 09:34:43 AM
2 votes:

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Mugato: You know, if an employee of yours gets pregnant, you have to give her like 5 years maternity leave or whatever it's up to now. That might cost you a little more than letting the unholy harlot just have her Satanic baby killing potion.

You mean twelve weeks of unpaid leave? Twelve weeks is easy to mix up with five years, I understand the mistake.


Don't forge the stigma associated with taking that time!
2013-05-25 08:09:44 AM
2 votes:
Just what we need. Businesses suing to be exempt from state and federal laws. So what happens if they win? "Minimum wages laws are against our beliefs?" "Jebus tells us that safety regulations are tools of the devil?"
2013-05-25 07:22:41 AM
2 votes:
i swear to god i'm never f*cking shopping at Hobby Lobby ever again.  i'm sick of this sh*t.
2013-05-25 06:15:38 AM
2 votes:

themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.


Only two posts in, but you win the Dumbest Post Of This Thread Award.
2013-05-25 06:12:43 AM
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: I sound fat: themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.

well, if the artilcle actually said anything close to what subby said, yeah... wait, no, you would still be wrong.

Also, non-profits have to make a profit, otherwise they'd fail.  They're just very limited in what they're allowed to do with said profits.  They typically can't pay out dividends and have to re-invest most of it in company assets or set it aside in an external investment or rainy-day fund.


Uh... no.  Almost all non-profits, such as churches operate at a perpetual loss.  It's really more of an accounting trick than anything else, but it's the way things work.

In simple terms most churches are supported by community donations, and the church pays the bills and the salary for the church leadership.  In the process, they effectively spend all their money each month, and therefore operate at a loss (at or near 100%).

Now of course, that doesn't count "non-profits" like the mega churches.  That's a farking scam.
2013-05-25 05:55:05 AM
2 votes:
"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

The question does answer itself, quite explicitly in federal and constitutional law.  Under the constitution, only individual persons have the right of religion.  Under the broader federal standards, only individuals and 501(c)3 organisations have the right of religion.

So it stops right there, actually.  Hobby Lobby is not a 501(c)3 organization so far as they know, so they're not even remotely eligible to ask for this kind of exemption.

However, taking it a step further, individual rights supersede corporate rights in basically every case.  Insurance is not owned by the corp, it's part of the pay of the employee, and is thus the property of the employee.  The corporation cannot dictate to the employee what to do with his or her private property, which their compensation is very definitely under extremely firmly established legal precedents from back in the end of the gilded age.

So... even if they were in fact a 501(c)3 organization, they  still wouldn't be eligible for an exemption here, and to ask for it is stupid on its face for anyone with even the slightest knowledge of basic civics and general employment law.  It's not a coincidence that it takes the full financial and political power of the largest fat-cat organizations in the US to keep even a few of these stupid, stupid suits from being immediately laughed out of court.  The request couldn't be any more obviously in violation of basic US law if they were requesting that a newspaper be censored and its guns confiscated without a warrant while the employees were sold into slavery.
2013-05-25 05:53:25 AM
2 votes:

vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.


They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.
2013-05-25 05:52:05 AM
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: MmmmBacon: That sounds like an actionable claim for sexual discrimination.

They made the claim it was because of performance issues, and shuffled a few people around. Despite the fact that she had exceptional comments from her manager.

She told them to go fark themselves this week. Davis Bridal hired her for a full time position, non-commission making 1.6x what she was making at Hobby Lobby.


Good for her! Fark those douchebags at Hobby Lobby.
2013-05-25 05:49:12 AM
2 votes:

almandot: Do they also refuse to give their employees wages that could potentially be used for condoms or after morning pills? They should have the right to withhold paychecks.


They are notorious for letting their Franchisees do whatever the fark they want to their employees. Honestly, it's worse than wal-mart.
2013-05-25 05:48:32 AM
2 votes:

MmmmBacon: That sounds like an actionable claim for sexual discrimination.


They made the claim it was because of performance issues, and shuffled a few people around. Despite the fact that she had exceptional comments from her manager.

She told them to go fark themselves this week. Davis Bridal hired her for a full time position, non-commission making 1.6x what she was making at Hobby Lobby.
2013-05-25 05:45:30 AM
2 votes:
I don't shop Hobby Lobby. Not by decision but because even if I wanted to, there isn't one anywhere near here.

But for a business to offer their employees insurance that deals with stuff like birth control/morning after pill isn't condoning it. If the employee shares your values, they simply won't use those methods.

Then again, "my religion is the only correct religion and my values are the only correct values and the rest of you can all suck it." This is the general mentality of way too many religious people in the US today and that's why I got out of organized religion. (But I'm not an atheist.)
2013-05-25 05:39:06 AM
2 votes:
Ya know, I could respect their position that being a private organization should allow them to provide a specific level of health coverage in line with the religious beliefs of the owner.

I could, but I don't, and I think it's a totally asinine, back-asswards position, and that they are wrong, but I see where they're coming from and all.

But, trying to claim you're a ministry to avoid the legal obligations so you can be assholes and impose your dark-ages beliefs on employees you've never even met, even though you are obviously not any form of religious institution? fark you, you dickwads. Go blow a goat.
2013-05-25 03:23:06 AM
2 votes:

moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time


How do they compete with Michaels then? We don't have Hobby Lobby out this way, and while Michaels has its flaws, it certainly sounds way better than what you describe.
2013-05-25 01:24:14 AM
2 votes:

NewportBarGuy: clancifer: TheOmni: I don't think they understand how health insurance or birth control works.

Oh they understand.  Whores and sluts used birth control.  That's all they need to know.

I remember a patient at the pharmacy I worked at a few years ago. She had to have the prescription be for health reasons. (Complexion or hormonal regulation or some sh*t.) If it didn't have that, her insurance (employer) wouldn't cover it. She worked for a church or some religious thing. I thought that was the craziest sh*t I'd ever heard. And I've heard "Hey, we're gonna give this 18-year-old cross-eyed retard live ammo and you are going to cover each other while you move to the objective." Sooooo.... This even pales.

You want more of your workers out for 6-9 months? That's sound business planning, Hobby Lobby. Praise be to Jesus or whatever.


Don't forget the part where they don't want to pay into welfare. Force a baby on a poor woman and don't support it, that's the way of things lately; Yay, everyone pays!
2013-05-25 12:08:54 AM
2 votes:
I don't think they understand how health insurance or birth control works.
2013-05-25 10:23:04 PM
1 votes:
It's okay Hobby Lobby, I know you wouldn't like my slutty cash, so I'll do you a favor by not shopping there anymore.

Signed,
Artsy, Crafty, Pill-taking Harlot.
2013-05-25 09:25:03 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Hobby Lobby is privately held. Shareholders are not an issue.


That means that the stock isn't publicly traded, not that there aren't shareholders.
2013-05-25 09:20:24 PM
1 votes:

enemy of the state: Look at the numbers: Obamacare is destined to fail, in the sense that it will put private insurers out of business and result in a complete government takeover of the health business (yeah I know, it makes me sick to be sticking up for health insurance companies).  This birth control/morning after pill business is just one aspect of the government knowing what's best for people and stomping on anyone who gets in their way.



Wouldn't that be letting the people who pay for their health insurance, getting to decide what they get, and not letting their employers pick and choose what benefits they can have?  I don't see this as stomping on anyone who gets in their way.  If you are paying to be insured, why should your employer (granted they pay about half your policy), get to dictate what healthcare they can deny you based on religious grounds? Where does this end if they get a favorable ruling.
2013-05-25 08:54:52 PM
1 votes:

enemy of the state: Look at the numbers: Obamacare is destined to fail, in the sense that it will put private insurers out of business and result in a complete government takeover of the health business (yeah I know, it makes me sick to be sticking up for health insurance companies).  This birth control/morning after pill business is just one aspect of the government knowing what's best for people and stomping on anyone who gets in their way.


I know.  Makes me sick.  Everyone knows that that's religion's job.
2013-05-25 07:55:09 PM
1 votes:

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Look, if there are records, she has 2 years to file a claim.  I'd say gather what evidence you can, quietly find a lawyer who should be more than happy to take an open and shut case (especially if they're looking to get their name out there) and go for it.
 http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/equalcompensation.cfm


I'll have her look into it. Personally, I'd love to see her fark over the guy who was her boss for his sexist BS.
2013-05-25 06:04:38 PM
1 votes:
It's a Ministry?

CONNECT THE GOD-DAMNED DOTS!
2013-05-25 05:07:22 PM
1 votes:

MeanJean: Hasty Ambush

You are imposing your lifestyle on them by insisting they help finance your exchanging of bodily fluids with others.

Yeah, how dare I want my health insurance to cover the treatment of various debilitating hormone conditions that are treatable through hormonal birth control .

Would you be okay with a Scientology-owned business refusing to allow their employees to get psych meds? Or Jehovah's Witness owned busiensses refusing to cover blood transfusions?



Well, of course Hasty Ambush would be ok with that, MeanJean, because he's not stupid, cruel, AND hypocritical.
2013-05-25 04:39:07 PM
1 votes:

Linux_Yes: F*cking is the most popular hobby on earth.  Hobby Lobby needs to reevaluate its priorities.


It's a silly thing to get worked up over, but calling what themselves a "hobby" store is pretty dumb.  They're an arts-and-crafts store.  We already have a word for that: "arts and crafts."  "Hobby" means something else entirely.

It would be like if I opened a store selling hair-care products and named it "The Body-Building Barn," y'know, because hair has body?  Get it?  Maybe I think that's a clever name but I'd still have an endless parade of fit, muscular men marching into my store and then walking out a few minutes later confused and disappointed.  And that would be pointless, because I've already got a bedroom for that.
2013-05-25 04:31:52 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Right: If Hobby Lobby now wants to get a waiver on covering certain health care costs, it should be allowed to do so.


Only if I can get a waiver on paying taxes towards your stupid wars.  You really want an "a la carte" pay-only-for-what-you-approve-of taxation system in the USA?  Because it would cut both ways, I assure you.

Unless, of course, you mean it should only work that way for conservatives.  But I'm sure you're not that hypocritical.
2013-05-25 03:55:58 PM
1 votes:
Hasty Ambush

You are imposing your lifestyle on them by insisting they help finance your exchanging of bodily fluids with others.

Yeah, how dare I want my health insurance to cover the treatment of various debilitating hormone conditions that are treatable through hormonal birth control .

Would you be okay with a Scientology-owned business refusing to allow their employees to get psych meds? Or Jehovah's Witness owned busiensses refusing to cover blood transfusions?
2013-05-25 03:28:50 PM
1 votes:
So if this goes through, what's next for for profits?

Owner is a Jehovah's Witness, so no blood transfusions covered by employee healthcare?

Owner is a Christian Scientist so they won't cover vaccines?
msP [TotalFark]
2013-05-25 03:10:10 PM
1 votes:
Love Hobby Lobby, better than Joanns, cheaper than Michaels, will never shop there again.
2013-05-25 02:26:03 PM
1 votes:
Given how much farkers whinge about religious institutions having tax exempt 501(c)(3) status, it's interesting that now the cry is "they're not a non-profit so they don't deserve a religious exemption" when Hobby Lobby has chosen to incorporate as a taxable entity.
2013-05-25 02:11:07 PM
1 votes:

HotWingAgenda: Kahabut: HotWingAgenda: vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.

They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.

You haven't been paying attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company

Turns out I was wronger than you thought.  Those jackasses specifically gave corporations free rein to field their own armies, not even for security contracting to the government.

Writing for the majority Chief Justice Roberts opined, "If the first amendment applies to Corporations, surely the second amendment also applies. Since Corporations have no history of abusing their power, we expect that they will employ their private armies with restraint and discretion,"


Sounds like somebody somewhere doesn't understand sarcasm.
2013-05-25 01:29:32 PM
1 votes:

Linux_Yes: F*cking is the most popular hobby on earth.  Hobby Lobby needs to reevaluate its priorities.


It's only a hobby because religious folk think it makes their invisible friend angry when you try and go professional.
2013-05-25 12:39:04 PM
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: BarkingUnicorn: You're pissed because they gave your girlfriend a solid gold civil rights case?

Problem with that: 1) It's Arkansas, and 2) She'd have to fight a protracted court battle on the budget of a college sophomore.


Look, if there are records, she has 2 years to file a claim.  I'd say gather what evidence you can, quietly find a lawyer who should be more than happy to take an open and shut case (especially if they're looking to get their name out there) and go for it.
 http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/equalcompensation.cfm


I still really regret not going after an employer because I found another job and wanted to leave that crap behind.  And later on found out they f--ked over other people in a similar fashion after I left.  Should've fought it out just so other people didn't have to go through that crap.  At least she should think about it.  Otherwise this sh-t is never going to change.

2013-05-25 12:38:45 PM
1 votes:
I never knew this about Hobby Lobby. Now I know what crafty store to avoid.
2013-05-25 09:35:30 AM
1 votes:
yet another reason to never shop at hobby lobby

/ does not shop with anyone that is closed on Sunday
2013-05-25 09:20:44 AM
1 votes:
As I wasn't raised a deist, my own Atheism makes sense, but I could never explain my dislike of crafts and scrapbooks. Now that I know it wasn't the foam shapes or fake foliage I rejected, it was Hobby Lobbyism itself. It is all starting to add up. Their "Procreation of Crafters" mandate is vitally important, as even many devoutly religious men will choose Onanism over feigning interest in popsicle sticks and pipe cleaners.
2013-05-25 09:00:23 AM
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: Alphax: If your religion, or 'morals' require that you deny health care to others, get some actual morals.

Yeah about that, how many hundreds of times did Jeebus mention helping the poor in the bible?


I believe what He said was, "Fark 'em, if they didn't want to die of leprosy then they'd get a damn job already"
2013-05-25 08:43:10 AM
1 votes:

moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time


The one here in West Columbia is actually pretty well run and organized, but trying to get through the checkouts makes WalMart look well organized.   For the record:  the ONLY reason I go there is if my local hobby shop (plastic models) is closed and I need something ASAP.  But if they're going to pull this shiat, screw it - I'll make the 13 mile run to Michael's.  Same stuff and no religious derp.
2013-05-25 08:23:35 AM
1 votes:
fark you Hobby Lobby. First of all its not about "your religion" it's about saving a buck by not having to shell out more dough to the insurance companies. Nice cover though. I never liked them. Go into a store and find something made in the USA. I double dog dare you. You might find one thing...or if you search hard, two. All else is made in china or similar countries with human rights violations. Classy.
2013-05-25 08:01:02 AM
1 votes:
Here comes another boycott. It's getting so I can't remember who I'm supposed to patronize or not. I've been traumatized ever since a complete stranger in the check out a grocery store in Madison, WI started ranting about why I shouldn't be buying such and such a product I was carrying. "Hey, man, I didn't know."

If Hobby Lobby wants a waiver, they should just suck up to Obama instead of going full derp and filing a pointless lawsuit.
2013-05-25 07:54:23 AM
1 votes:
It's funny that they are closed on Sundays to honor Jesus. Jesus observed the sabath on Saturday.

I've been there a couple of times. The aisles are so narrow, making the store dark and crowded. It makes me nervous. It's a fire trap.
2013-05-25 07:52:06 AM
1 votes:
I am not from a place where this store exists, but I'll be honest, I saw Hobby Lobby and thought that prostitutes and Johns had formed a lobbying organization.
2013-05-25 07:25:28 AM
1 votes:
Praise be to Dick Blick!
2013-05-25 07:22:17 AM
1 votes:

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


My god, you're dumb.
2013-05-25 07:21:15 AM
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time

How do they compete with Michaels then? We don't have Hobby Lobby out this way, and while Michaels has its flaws, it certainly sounds way better than what you describe.


1) Hobby Lobby has some things at much better prices. Here in Huntsville, AL, we don't have anything like a real art store (Dick Blick or w/e). Hobby Lobby sells sets of three copics for $20 and 6 for $40. Michael's sells them, for $55*. They also carry a different selection of paper. Hobby Lobby has some Strathmore stuff that Michael's just doesn't carry. While Canson Fanboy 11x17 is nicer than Strathmore 200 series, it costs a hell of a lot more.

2) Religion. This is Alabama. Some people shop at Hobby Lobby <i>because</i> of this shiat. I've stopped going there for things. I think it typically costs a tad more to get my stuff at Michael's, but with the coupons they offer, it means one trip and I know they have what I want.

*This is exceptionally stupid because they sell open stock markers for $8 each. Yes 6x8 = $48 < $55. I guess they're figuring people will have %40 off coupons?
2013-05-25 07:19:58 AM
1 votes:
Let's take their argument to a logical conclusion. If a  company was founded and owned by a fundamentalist who does not believe in medical treatment (The Body, Bible Readers Fellowship,Church of the First born, et al.) , then they would not need to provide insurance at all!  God would be all they needed,
2013-05-25 07:03:22 AM
1 votes:

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


Hormonal birth control has a large variety of effects that are often used to the advantage of the woman. In fact, it's somewhat often prescribed for health reasons.
2013-05-25 06:57:51 AM
1 votes:

Alphax: Mrtraveler01: I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.

I never heard of Hobby Lobby.  (checks the Google)  Looks like they have 5 stores in the St. Louis area, but  it looks like they're all at least a half hour drive for me.  Nothing in central county or north county.


There's one out in St. Peters (not sure where the other 4 are). But Michael's is much closer to me so that's my go to place if I need crap like that.

They do run those derpy ads in the Post-Dispatch once in a while so you'll have to keep your eyes peeled.
2013-05-25 06:57:50 AM
1 votes:

Alphax: Mrtraveler01: I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.

I never heard of Hobby Lobby.  (checks the Google)  Looks like they have 5 stores in the St. Louis area, but  it looks like they're all at least a half hour drive for me.  Nothing in central county or north county.


You aren't missing anything.

Imagine that, somehow, a really cheap dollar store had a child by the John McNaughton Jesus painting.  The resultant disordered heap of cheap-yet-overpriced shoddy imported kitsch would be Hobby Lobby.
2013-05-25 06:46:28 AM
1 votes:
I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.
2013-05-25 06:20:31 AM
1 votes:

vartian: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

You'd think, right?

"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

I know that argument won't go anywhere, but it still gives me the farking chills.


Why wouldn't the argument go anywhere?

There is a precedent.
2013-05-25 06:20:25 AM
1 votes:

MmmmBacon: That's not going far enough! Hobby Lobby should be able to pay their employees in their own script, that will only be accepted at Hobby Lobby-run company stores. So the employees will only be able to buy items the company wants them to buy. Of course condoms and birth control won't be available at these company stores.


Why not just pay them in BitCoins!

I promise you (snicker) I TOTALLY DIDNT LAUGH typing this.
2013-05-25 06:14:39 AM
1 votes:
Challenge: Pick up any knick knack that this business sells and find one that is NOT made in China.

After about forty minutes and a few hundred items, my wife and I gave up. I am convinced that nothing in this
store is made from any other country. It's like what would happen if a country had a garage sale.
2013-05-25 06:11:40 AM
1 votes:

Kahabut: HotWingAgenda: vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.

They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.

You haven't been paying attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company


Turns out I was wronger than you thought.  Those jackasses specifically gave corporations free rein to field their own armies, not even for security contracting to the government.

Writing for the majority Chief Justice Roberts opined, "If the first amendment applies to Corporations, surely the second amendment also applies. Since Corporations have no history of abusing their power, we expect that they will employ their private armies with restraint and discretion,"
2013-05-25 06:11:19 AM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


Sure it can.  Like all corporations, Hobby Lobby is a disciple of the Church of the Almighty Dollar.
2013-05-25 05:59:43 AM
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: clancifer: TheOmni: I don't think they understand how health insurance or birth control works.

Oh they understand.  Whores and sluts used birth control.  That's all they need to know.

I remember a patient at the pharmacy I worked at a few years ago. She had to have the prescription be for health reasons. (Complexion or hormonal regulation or some sh*t.) If it didn't have that, her insurance (employer) wouldn't cover it. She worked for a church or some religious thing. I thought that was the craziest sh*t I'd ever heard. And I've heard "Hey, we're gonna give this 18-year-old cross-eyed retard live ammo and you are going to cover each other while you move to the objective." Sooooo.... This even pales.

You want more of your workers out for 6-9 months? That's sound business planning, Hobby Lobby. Praise be to Jesus or whatever.


I too have heard something similar.  Although, our guy wasn't a retard, he'd actually joined the Army after convincing a judge that it was a better alternative than going to jail for incest.  The guy actually farked his sister.  Made it all the way through Ranger school too.  Probably because nothing was harder than convincing his sister to let him hit it.

We took to calling him "Sister Farker."
2013-05-25 05:53:06 AM
1 votes:

Shadowtag: Wild guess, they're all for boner pills.


The Bible condones boner pills, they're like Jesus, you know? Raising the dead back to life?
2013-05-25 05:48:03 AM
1 votes:
Do they also refuse to give their employees wages that could potentially be used for condoms or after morning pills? They should have the right to withhold paychecks.
2013-05-25 05:39:54 AM
1 votes:
The things some scumbag corporate types will do to avoid social responsibility.
2013-05-25 05:35:18 AM
1 votes:

dookdookdook: ShawnDoc: How do they compete with Michaels then? We don't have Hobby Lobby out this way, and while Michaels has its flaws, it certainly sounds way better than what you describe.

Around here at least, Michaels stores are less than half the size of Hobby Lobbys, and the prices are even a little higher.  In my experience, the proportion of tacky knickknacks to actual art stuff is roughly the same, with the exception that at least 25% of any Hobby Lobby store is devoted to Christmas displays 365 days a year.


I like joann fabrics. Well "like". In that it's the best choice around here for that kind of stuff.
2013-05-25 05:33:19 AM
1 votes:
Old and busted: corporations are people.

New hotness: corporations are ministries.

Cause Jesus was all about limited liability.
2013-05-25 03:51:31 AM
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: How do they compete with Michaels then? We don't have Hobby Lobby out this way, and while Michaels has its flaws, it certainly sounds way better than what you describe.


Around here at least, Michaels stores are less than half the size of Hobby Lobbys, and the prices are even a little higher.  In my experience, the proportion of tacky knickknacks to actual art stuff is roughly the same, with the exception that at least 25% of any Hobby Lobby store is devoted to Christmas displays 365 days a year.
2013-05-25 02:16:53 AM
1 votes:

moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time


and then you find that their selection of the hobby/craft items you want is almost as good as walmarts.
2013-05-25 02:08:58 AM
1 votes:
Vishnu, Mary, and Joseph! According to their FAQ, via wikipedia, they don't use barcodes. And I can guess it's because ... they have 666 in them! (Dramatic chord!)

/which they don't
2013-05-25 12:19:41 AM
1 votes:

themindiswatching: They're helping with a good cause though: the minister's lack of yachts.


I think Creflo Dollar is my favorite. That name just kicks all kinds of ass.
2013-05-25 12:18:51 AM
1 votes:

clancifer: TheOmni: I don't think they understand how health insurance or birth control works.

Oh they understand.  Whores and sluts used birth control.  That's all they need to know.


I remember a patient at the pharmacy I worked at a few years ago. She had to have the prescription be for health reasons. (Complexion or hormonal regulation or some sh*t.) If it didn't have that, her insurance (employer) wouldn't cover it. She worked for a church or some religious thing. I thought that was the craziest sh*t I'd ever heard. And I've heard "Hey, we're gonna give this 18-year-old cross-eyed retard live ammo and you are going to cover each other while you move to the objective." Sooooo.... This even pales.

You want more of your workers out for 6-9 months? That's sound business planning, Hobby Lobby. Praise be to Jesus or whatever.
2013-05-25 12:17:55 AM
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.

You mean like all those Prosperity Gospel Ministries?


They're helping with a good cause though: the minister's lack of yachts.
2013-05-25 12:13:18 AM
1 votes:

TheOmni: I don't think they understand how health insurance or birth control works.


Oh they understand.  Whores and sluts used birth control.  That's all they need to know.
2013-05-25 12:13:16 AM
1 votes:
The one thing this clearly shows is that we need less regulation and lower corporate taxes.

Oh, and tax payer funded child care for start ups, while the mommy and daddy corporations are at work during the day.
 
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