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(STLToday)   Hobby Lobby says it is a ministry and should not have to pay fines under Obamacare   (stltoday.com) divider line 215
    More: Unlikely, Hobby Lobby, ministry, individual mandate  
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10196 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2013 at 5:28 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-25 06:11:42 AM
I think they should put the morning after drug in the water and you have to sign a waiver and take a parenting skill test and show proof that you can afford a child before you're given a drug to counter act it.

The money we would save in federal school lunch programs alone would be worth it.
 
2013-05-25 06:12:43 AM

Jim_Callahan: I sound fat: themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.

well, if the artilcle actually said anything close to what subby said, yeah... wait, no, you would still be wrong.

Also, non-profits have to make a profit, otherwise they'd fail.  They're just very limited in what they're allowed to do with said profits.  They typically can't pay out dividends and have to re-invest most of it in company assets or set it aside in an external investment or rainy-day fund.


Uh... no.  Almost all non-profits, such as churches operate at a perpetual loss.  It's really more of an accounting trick than anything else, but it's the way things work.

In simple terms most churches are supported by community donations, and the church pays the bills and the salary for the church leadership.  In the process, they effectively spend all their money each month, and therefore operate at a loss (at or near 100%).

Now of course, that doesn't count "non-profits" like the mega churches.  That's a farking scam.
 
2013-05-25 06:14:39 AM
Challenge: Pick up any knick knack that this business sells and find one that is NOT made in China.

After about forty minutes and a few hundred items, my wife and I gave up. I am convinced that nothing in this
store is made from any other country. It's like what would happen if a country had a garage sale.
 
2013-05-25 06:15:38 AM

themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.


Only two posts in, but you win the Dumbest Post Of This Thread Award.
 
2013-05-25 06:17:11 AM

vartian: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

You'd think, right?

"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

I know that argument won't go anywhere, but it still gives me the farking chills.


I'd really like to read where Duncan went with that.  How the fark do you back up such a claim?
 
2013-05-25 06:20:25 AM

MmmmBacon: That's not going far enough! Hobby Lobby should be able to pay their employees in their own script, that will only be accepted at Hobby Lobby-run company stores. So the employees will only be able to buy items the company wants them to buy. Of course condoms and birth control won't be available at these company stores.


Why not just pay them in BitCoins!

I promise you (snicker) I TOTALLY DIDNT LAUGH typing this.
 
2013-05-25 06:20:31 AM

vartian: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

You'd think, right?

"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

I know that argument won't go anywhere, but it still gives me the farking chills.


Why wouldn't the argument go anywhere?

There is a precedent.
 
2013-05-25 06:21:14 AM

log_jammin: moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time

and then you find that their selection of the hobby/craft items you want is almost as good as walmarts.


You have to understand their demographic.  The homes of their customers are exactly like their stores.  That's what keeps the customers coming back.
 
2013-05-25 06:23:33 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Who would Jesus deprive of health care?


The Romans?
 
2013-05-25 06:24:35 AM

HotWingAgenda: Kahabut: HotWingAgenda: vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.

They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.

You haven't been paying attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company

Turns out I was wronger than you thought.  Those jackasses specifically gave corporations free rein to field their own armies, not even for security contracting to the government.

Writing for the majority Chief Justice Roberts opined, "If the first amendment applies to Corporations, surely the second amendment also applies. Since Corporations have no history of abusing their power, we expect that they will employ their private armies with restraint and discretion,"


It's satire, you idiot.  First clue is that it doesn't cite the case.
 
2013-05-25 06:24:48 AM

HotWingAgenda: Kahabut: HotWingAgenda: vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.

They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.

You haven't been paying attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company

Turns out I was wronger than you thought.  Those jackasses specifically gave corporations free rein to field their own armies, not even for security contracting to the government.

Writing for the majority Chief Justice Roberts opined, "If the first amendment applies to Corporations, surely the second amendment also applies. Since Corporations have no history of abusing their power, we expect that they will employ their private armies with restraint and discretion,"


[SATIRE]
 
2013-05-25 06:27:36 AM

hardinparamedic: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

According to the IRS and Federal Law, those religious beliefs A) Don't make it a "ministry" or a "charity", since it is a franchisee-owned for profit corporation, and B) Those religious beliefs don't give it exemption from federal law.

On another note, fark Hobby Lobby. After what they did to my girlfriend, I will never buy another thing from them. They cut her down to 16 hours a week, while making every male member of the staff a 32-hour a week employee so they wouldn't have to pay her any benefits.


You're pissed because they gave your girlfriend a solid gold civil rights case?
 
2013-05-25 06:31:37 AM

BarkingUnicorn: You have to understand their demographic.  The homes of their customers are exactly like their stores.  That's what keeps the customers coming back.


That thought has crossed my mind more than once.
 
2013-05-25 06:32:08 AM
HotWingAgenda: Kahabut: HotWingAgenda: vartian: Duncan cited the Citizens United campaign-finance decision that said corporations had constitutional protections.

And a big thanks for that ever-lasting shiat burger, Supremes.

They'd have to be mentally defective to agree with that blind assertion.  You think any sane judge would say that corporations have the same right to privacy or right to bear arms that people have?  That would undermine the entire SEC, and give public corporations a justification to build their own private armies.

It would be almost like the burbclave world of Snow Crash

On second thought, fark yeah, let's get this party started.

You haven't been paying attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company

Turns out I was wronger than you thought.  Those jackasses specifically gave corporations free rein to field their own armies, not even for security contracting to the government.

Writing for the majority Chief Justice Roberts opined, "If the first amendment applies to Corporations, surely the second amendment also applies. Since Corporations have no history of abusing their power, we expect that they will employ their private armies with restraint and discretion,"


In a concurring opinion Justice Thomas wrote, "Because I was downloading porn when this case was argued I don't remember much, but I always vote with my friends--Scalia. Alito, Roberts, and Kennedy. We Catholics stick together."

I lol'ed
 
2013-05-25 06:42:21 AM
the only good or bad thing about hobby lobby is they have no inventory cost management on some categories. if you are willing to pick your way through the many years old plastic model kits, model rocket stuff, train sets, and things i'll stereotype as teenage boys and geek stuff you can find stuff that has been mispriced or discontinued often by 50%. i'd love to look at their inventory lists. they must have 'invisible' inventory because sku numbers have changed and prices on some stuff is so off. it sucks running over there to get a hobby size bottle of enamel paint and the price and paint itself is from 7-10 years ago.
 
2013-05-25 06:44:20 AM

BarkingUnicorn: You're pissed because they gave your girlfriend a solid gold civil rights case?


Problem with that: 1) It's Arkansas, and 2) She'd have to fight a protracted court battle on the budget of a college sophomore.
 
2013-05-25 06:46:28 AM
I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.
 
2013-05-25 06:48:24 AM

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


Corporations are people my friend.
 
2013-05-25 06:50:16 AM

Mrtraveler01: I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.


I never heard of Hobby Lobby.  (checks the Google)  Looks like they have 5 stores in the St. Louis area, but  it looks like they're all at least a half hour drive for me.  Nothing in central county or north county.
 
2013-05-25 06:50:42 AM

Mr.Tangent: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

Corporations are people my friend.


media.boingboing.net
 
2013-05-25 06:53:25 AM

themindiswatching: So Hobby Lobby admits to violating IRS rules on non-profits by, you know,  making a profit. Interesting.


Being "non-profit" is just a tax status. I've consulted for many of these organizations in the past, several of which made quite a bit of money.
 
2013-05-25 06:57:26 AM
And their picture looks about the way you'd expect. Rich, old, and white.

"fark you, we got ours!"
 
2013-05-25 06:57:50 AM

Alphax: Mrtraveler01: I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.

I never heard of Hobby Lobby.  (checks the Google)  Looks like they have 5 stores in the St. Louis area, but  it looks like they're all at least a half hour drive for me.  Nothing in central county or north county.


You aren't missing anything.

Imagine that, somehow, a really cheap dollar store had a child by the John McNaughton Jesus painting.  The resultant disordered heap of cheap-yet-overpriced shoddy imported kitsch would be Hobby Lobby.
 
2013-05-25 06:57:51 AM

Alphax: Mrtraveler01: I always get a kick out of the derpy "America is a Christian Nation" ads they run during religious holiday and the 4th of July.

I never heard of Hobby Lobby.  (checks the Google)  Looks like they have 5 stores in the St. Louis area, but  it looks like they're all at least a half hour drive for me.  Nothing in central county or north county.


There's one out in St. Peters (not sure where the other 4 are). But Michael's is much closer to me so that's my go to place if I need crap like that.

They do run those derpy ads in the Post-Dispatch once in a while so you'll have to keep your eyes peeled.
 
2013-05-25 07:01:57 AM
I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.
 
2013-05-25 07:03:22 AM

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


Hormonal birth control has a large variety of effects that are often used to the advantage of the woman. In fact, it's somewhat often prescribed for health reasons.
 
2013-05-25 07:07:12 AM

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


My wife needs birth control, even though she is sterile, because of her otherwise out-of-control Endomitriosis. That's what ruined her ovaries in the first place. So I don't give a flying fark what you believe, hormonal contraception most certainly should be covered by health insurance.

If you think this issue is just about letting "whores" screw guys without consequences, then you are woefully, tragically uninformed.
 
2013-05-25 07:09:33 AM

NewportBarGuy: themindiswatching: They're helping with a good cause though: the minister's lack of yachts.

I think Creflo Dollar is my favorite. That name just kicks all kinds of ass.


Say what? Oh, DOLLAR... never mind.
 
2013-05-25 07:13:39 AM
A few years ago, I was at a dinner hosted by one of my most liberal friends (the head of the department of women's studies at a local college) who was singing the praises of Hobby Lobby because they had, apparently, had a very successful year financially and management gave everybody a raise because management understood that it was their employees who made them successful and thus shared the wealth.  I had to confess that I knew nothing about Hobby Lobby but, as a management consultant, I applauded their way of thinking because what differentiates a company from its competitors is, most often, the caliber of its employees.  To compensate them better than your competitors so they can stay with you and help you make more money is how capitalism works.

If Hobby Lobby now wants to get a waiver on covering certain health care costs, it should be allowed to do so.  If that is something that will cause employees to leave, then Hobby Lobby will lose the benefit of those employees.  If it doesn't matter to the employees and they stay, why should the government make a bit deal of it?
 
2013-05-25 07:16:09 AM

CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.



Corporations are people, my friend.
 
2013-05-25 07:16:36 AM
I understand Salvation Army and goodwill...but yarn and beads?
 
2013-05-25 07:19:15 AM

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.


Buh?

health [ helth ]   
general physical condition: the general condition of the body or mind, especially in terms of the presence or absence of illnesses, injuries, or impairments

Having a kid (or not) doesn't impact one's health?

Or, is it "personal choices aren't health issues?"  If so, should we pay for Mr. Fatty's fourth heart bypass?

Or, are you... ah, yeah, you're trolling.
 
2013-05-25 07:19:58 AM
Let's take their argument to a logical conclusion. If a  company was founded and owned by a fundamentalist who does not believe in medical treatment (The Body, Bible Readers Fellowship,Church of the First born, et al.) , then they would not need to provide insurance at all!  God would be all they needed,
 
2013-05-25 07:20:57 AM

Todd300: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.


Corporations are people, my friend.



Oh, has someone possibly mentioned this already? Oh dear.
 
2013-05-25 07:21:15 AM

ShawnDoc: moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time

How do they compete with Michaels then? We don't have Hobby Lobby out this way, and while Michaels has its flaws, it certainly sounds way better than what you describe.


1) Hobby Lobby has some things at much better prices. Here in Huntsville, AL, we don't have anything like a real art store (Dick Blick or w/e). Hobby Lobby sells sets of three copics for $20 and 6 for $40. Michael's sells them, for $55*. They also carry a different selection of paper. Hobby Lobby has some Strathmore stuff that Michael's just doesn't carry. While Canson Fanboy 11x17 is nicer than Strathmore 200 series, it costs a hell of a lot more.

2) Religion. This is Alabama. Some people shop at Hobby Lobby <i>because</i> of this shiat. I've stopped going there for things. I think it typically costs a tad more to get my stuff at Michael's, but with the coupons they offer, it means one trip and I know they have what I want.

*This is exceptionally stupid because they sell open stock markers for $8 each. Yes 6x8 = $48 < $55. I guess they're figuring people will have %40 off coupons?
 
2013-05-25 07:22:17 AM

Animatronik: I guess my whole issue with this is that I don't believe hormonal contraception or morning after pills should be covered by health insurance. Not a health issue.Doesn't protect you from arcs even.

/wanna get poked, pay for your own damn protection or make your boyfriend pay.


My god, you're dumb.
 
2013-05-25 07:22:41 AM
i swear to god i'm never f*cking shopping at Hobby Lobby ever again.  i'm sick of this sh*t.
 
2013-05-25 07:25:00 AM

Scott_Free: Let's take their argument to a logical conclusion. If a  company was founded and owned by a fundamentalist who does not believe in medical treatment (The Body, Bible Readers Fellowship,Church of the First born, et al.) , then they would not need to provide insurance at all!  God would be all they needed,


If it were owned by someone, it wouldn't be a corporation.

If corporations can speak, who speaks for corporations?  Who decides "this corporation is Christian?"
 
2013-05-25 07:25:28 AM
Praise be to Dick Blick!
 
2013-05-25 07:25:45 AM
If your religion, or 'morals' require that you deny health care to others, get some actual morals.
 
2013-05-25 07:47:13 AM

moothemagiccow: Hobby Lobby is a farking terrible store. It's the size of walmart and has the organization of a bodega. Cheap Chinese knickknacks, 30% of which are broken, make up the front of the store. To the left you can get cheap chinese seasonal knickknacks, which is christmas shiat for most of the year.

In the back lies all the "hobby" stuff - arts & craft gear in aisles which are not labeled at all. You want paint? You better remember which of the 40 aisles has paint, because there are no signs anywhere in the store, excluding knickknack signs that say "bless this house"

If you want help, you better get farked because there are 2 visible employees on the floor at a time


They do have a lot more model-building supplies than Michaels though. Found that out trying to (help my son) build a Viking ship for 8th grade history.
 
2013-05-25 07:49:37 AM

Alphax: If your religion, or 'morals' require that you deny health care to others, get some actual morals.


Yeah about that, how many hundreds of times did Jeebus mention helping the poor in the bible?
 
2013-05-25 07:52:06 AM
I am not from a place where this store exists, but I'll be honest, I saw Hobby Lobby and thought that prostitutes and Johns had formed a lobbying organization.
 
2013-05-25 07:52:09 AM

MisterRonbo: Old and busted: corporations are people.

New hotness: corporations are ministries.

Cause Jesus was all about limited liability.


The real question is, what corporations will be next, angels? And when the dinosaurs inevitably die in their own filth and fall from grace, will that finally make them recognizable as devils?
 
2013-05-25 07:53:47 AM

vartian: CruiserTwelve: A business can't have religious beliefs.

You'd think, right?

"Is religion the kind of right can only be exercised by a natural person? Well, the question nearly answers itself. ... It's not a purely personal right."

I know that argument won't go anywhere, but it still gives me the farking chills.


hell if that will fly then all businesses will be exempt.
 
2013-05-25 07:54:23 AM
It's funny that they are closed on Sundays to honor Jesus. Jesus observed the sabath on Saturday.

I've been there a couple of times. The aisles are so narrow, making the store dark and crowded. It makes me nervous. It's a fire trap.
 
2013-05-25 08:00:04 AM

Kahabut: This country loves it's corrupt money, but we love our corrupt religions as well.


Let's face it, the real religion here is capitalism. And in they eyes of many people, it's infallible.
 
2013-05-25 08:01:02 AM
Here comes another boycott. It's getting so I can't remember who I'm supposed to patronize or not. I've been traumatized ever since a complete stranger in the check out a grocery store in Madison, WI started ranting about why I shouldn't be buying such and such a product I was carrying. "Hey, man, I didn't know."

If Hobby Lobby wants a waiver, they should just suck up to Obama instead of going full derp and filing a pointless lawsuit.
 
2013-05-25 08:09:44 AM
Just what we need. Businesses suing to be exempt from state and federal laws. So what happens if they win? "Minimum wages laws are against our beliefs?" "Jebus tells us that safety regulations are tools of the devil?"
 
2013-05-25 08:09:58 AM

dookdookdook: Around here at least, Michaels stores are less than half the size of Hobby Lobbys, and the prices are even a little higher


I wouldn't shop at either.
Support your local small time hobby shop before they all disappear.
/I go to the Hobby Stop in Bridgeport WV.
 
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