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(Indiegogo)   Cool: Comedian Doug Stanhope starts an IndieGoGo campaign to raise $50,000 for the woman who said "I'm actually an atheist" after surviving the Oklahoma tornado. Really Cool: The goal was met in the first 24 hours. Fark: There are 59 days to go   (indiegogo.com) divider line 510
    More: Hero, Oklahoma, Doug Stanhope, Wolf Blitzer, yard sign  
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12975 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2013 at 6:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-25 04:30:31 PM  

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]


You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.
 
2013-05-25 04:32:41 PM  

Dragonflew: gimmegimme:  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

I actually own this t-shirt:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


Now that's obtuse.  Thanks for illustrating the correct use of the word.
 
2013-05-25 04:32:56 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.


Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.
 
2013-05-25 04:36:22 PM  

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.

Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.


No, because contemplating your suffering makes me feel better.  I appreciate my lack of such suffering  more.
 
2013-05-25 04:40:57 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.

Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.

No, because contemplating your suffering makes me feel better.  I appreciate my lack of such suffering  more.


Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?
 
2013-05-25 04:43:29 PM  

gimmegimme: Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?


Morality is a system of rules for living a life that makes you feel better.  So the answer is, "It can be."
 
2013-05-25 04:47:59 PM  

Cats_Lie: Anyone read the perks offered on that site?  "Get out of hell free" card, "First choice for reincarnation, " etc.

Personally I didn't find them funny and they detract from the classiness of the overall effort, if you ask me.


Off topic a bit but I bought 250 GOOH Free cards when we had major layoffs coming at work. When I ran out I bought more. I gave a few to almost everyone I knew and soon they were everywhere. Most laughed and posted them on their walls. One person wanted nothing to do with them. Years later people mention them sometimes and when I tell them I passed them out they wondered where they came from. I still see them all over in offices. I still give them out. They made it to places well beyond my work area.

On topic I don't see them as a distraction. He is a comedian, right?
 
2013-05-25 04:53:50 PM  

gimmegimme: The Bible also tells you to stone homosexuals and to sell your raped daughter into sex slavery.


Wrong testament.
 
2013-05-25 04:58:28 PM  

Farking Canuck: If a person calls them self an atheists to indicate that they lack a belief in god then that is what they mean.


Yeah. Lot's of people "mean" something else than what they say when they say it.

"Do you believe in God?"

Atheist: No.

"Do you believe there is no god?"

A: No.

Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that atheists DON'T believe there is no god?

Are you an atheist? How would you answer all of these questions?
 
2013-05-25 05:00:23 PM  
Oh, goody. Go go gadget - sophistry!
 
2013-05-25 05:01:56 PM  

Waldo Pepper: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?

Morality is a system of rules for living a life that makes you feel better.  So the answer is, "It can be."

What?


Well, what else morality?
 
2013-05-25 05:03:52 PM  
Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"
 
2013-05-25 05:06:21 PM  

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: The Bible also tells you to stone homosexuals and to sell your raped daughter into sex slavery.

Wrong testament.


I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.
 
2013-05-25 05:08:38 PM  

gimmegimme: I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.


Most "Christians" don't really care about either testament.
 
2013-05-25 05:10:01 PM  

Abe Vig-Yoda: Sigh. A lot of broad generalizations in thread.

My wife and I are part of that crazy little group who consider ourselves "liberal Christians." We both grew up in KS in the United Methodist Church. And we've both been to church nearly every single Sunday (although not as much since we relocated for my job). And nothing grinds our gears more than getting roped in with the fanatical, bible-beating, ignorant types. Just because they make more noise does not make them representative of an entire religion.

I've done a lot of mission work, including rebuilding houses destroyed by Katrina, and tornado relief in Tennessee. And I'm not asking for a pat on the back right now. I'm telling you this that I did all that work with NO expectation of praise, reward, or anything else. I did it knowing that I was helping someone out. I wasn't evangelizing to those homeowners, or trying to convert them to my way of thinking. Just helping them because they needed it. Is it that hard to believe that there are other Christians like me out there?

Help is help.  Does it matter where it comes from as long as everyone's getting it who needs it?


Well said. Being agnostic does not preclude me from helping when I can. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Scientologist. If you need help and I can I will.
 
2013-05-25 05:11:15 PM  

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.

Most "Christians" don't really care about either testament.


Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.
 
2013-05-25 05:13:23 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"


It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.
 
2013-05-25 05:14:37 PM  

saturn badger: Help is help.  Does it matter where it comes from as long as everyone's getting it who needs it?

Well said. Being agnostic does not preclude me from helping when I can. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Scientologist. If you need help and I can I will.


Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.
 
2013-05-25 05:14:48 PM  

gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.


So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.
 
2013-05-25 05:15:52 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.


Cheap advertising isn't help.
 
2013-05-25 05:17:08 PM  

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.

So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.


Look, if Christians (no quotes) cared about the Old Testament, they would stone homosexuals and would avoid cotton/polyester blends.  If Christians cared about the New Testament, they would acknowledge the Jesus fable is rife with contradictions and would urge slaves to accept their lot in life.
 
2013-05-25 05:19:21 PM  

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.


You have described the "moral" of a story, one of the rules in a system of morality.
 
2013-05-25 05:20:17 PM  

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.

So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.


Why is their interpretation of their own religion any more valid than yours?

They're Christians if they believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.  That's really all that Christians have in common. If you don't like that, use a specific brand name like "UCC," "Methodist," "Baptist," "American Catholic," or the like.

They're all Christians. What they believe is amazingly diverse.
 
2013-05-25 05:21:08 PM  

gimmegimme: Look, if Christians (no quotes) cared about the Old Testament, they would stone homosexuals and would avoid cotton/polyester blends.  If Christians cared about the New Testament, they would acknowledge the Jesus fable is rife with contradictions and would urge slaves to accept their lot in life.


As you like. I for one don't think Jesus would care much for the term "Christian" anyway. It is evidence of missing the point, so I digress. I guess when it comes to Christianity, there are no True Scotsmen.

/Digs hole, places hatchet therein, covers hole, looks at you and smiles.
 
2013-05-25 05:21:14 PM  

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.

Cheap advertising isn't help.


The fark it ain't, if it helps.

It isn't "kindness:"  help given to one in need without expectation of reward from the one helped.
 
2013-05-25 05:23:10 PM  

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.


Can you show your work on that?  The OED seems to disagree with you.  And are you really saying that "morality" wasn't a concept before the English language came about?
 
2013-05-25 05:25:40 PM  

gimmegimme: s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.

Can you show your work on that?  The OED seems to disagree with you.  And are you really saying that "morality" wasn't a concept before the English language came about?


He substituted "moral" for "morality" to create a non sequitur.
 
2013-05-25 05:27:01 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: You have described the "moral" of a story, one of the rules in a system of morality.


A moral (from Latin morālis) is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. The moral may be left to the hearer, reader or viewer to determine for themselves, or may be explicitly encapsulated in a maxim.

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong). The philosophy of morality is ethics.

I know.

Lenny_da_Hog: Why is their interpretation of their own religion any more valid than yours?


Because they are wrong. Don't you agree?
 
2013-05-25 05:29:33 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: if it helps.


It really doesn't.

It's much closer to this: "Here, little one, let me help you into my van!"
 
2013-05-25 05:30:46 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: He substituted "moral" for "morality" to create a non sequitur.


Damn straight, I did.
 
2013-05-25 05:33:50 PM  

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: if it helps.

It really doesn't.

It's much closer to this: "Here, little one, let me help you into my van!"


Nonsense.  Some people might find naked Little Leaguers helpful,  but they're all sitting over  there.
 
2013-05-25 05:41:13 PM  

DiggidyDan: What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).


I had that thought too. But only atheists.

/I keed
//that would be awesome
///actually thinks she may do just this
 
2013-05-25 05:43:42 PM  

saturn badger: DiggidyDan: What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).

I had that thought too. But only atheists.

/I keed
//that would be awesome
///actually thinks she may do just this


She'll share part of it but she's not stupid.
 
2013-05-25 05:45:11 PM  

s2s2s2: "Do you believe in God?"

Atheist: No.

"Do you believe there is no god?"

A: No.

Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that atheists DON'T believe there is no god?

Are you an atheist? How would you answer all of these questions?


All atheists are "without god" as this is the root definition of the word and this is the only definition that includes all atheists. Some atheists take this further to a claim that gods do not exist but this is a tiny minority of atheists.

Most atheists take the position that, with the human race claiming the existence of over 1000 gods and yet, over thousands of years, providing absolutely zero proof to support these claims, that the most logical position to take is that gods do not likely exist. This is not a claim of knowledge that gods do not exist. It is a position taken upon analysis of available evidence and one that is open to re-evaluation if new evidence is presented.
 
2013-05-25 05:51:39 PM  

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.


Why not? If religion is defined by believing in an omnipotent persona then why is Scientology a religion?

/just assuming here
 
2013-05-25 05:51:48 PM  

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


It's about distinguishing themselves from the believes they despise. Atheists who don't despise believers have more free time.
 
2013-05-25 05:51:53 PM  

Farking Canuck: All atheists are


Ok.
 
2013-05-25 05:52:19 PM  

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.
 
2013-05-25 05:53:54 PM  

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


It's almost as silly as erecting thousands of buildings, spending time on television and radio programs, complete publishing companies with books and tracts, and spending hours and hours in those buildings in with that media every week.
 
2013-05-25 05:56:28 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread


You have no idea whether that's true.
 
2013-05-25 05:58:57 PM  

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.

grfx.cstv.com
Learned that saying that word was sometimes a bad idea.
 
2013-05-25 06:00:10 PM  
Waldo Pepper:

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

What an idiotic thing to say. If this is where the lie is posted then this is where it needs to be refuted.

Whether or not anyone is swayed either way is irrelevant.

P.S. How is it not hypocritical of you to be in here posting in support of religion while suggesting that there is something wrong in us defending ourselves? Or is it that you've been religious so long that you are blind to your own hypocrisy?
 
2013-05-25 06:02:38 PM  

John Buck 41: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.
[grfx.cstv.com image 275x264]
Learned that saying that word was sometimes a bad idea.


Yeah, that movie is why I usually say, "deliberately obtuse."

BarkingUnicorn: Waldo Pepper: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

You have no idea whether that's true.


What does "that" represent in your sentence?
 
2013-05-25 06:09:34 PM  
Blitzer's a fool.

www.popcrunch.com

How do you get a negative score on celebrity Jeopardy?  It's barely more challenging than children's Jeopardy.
 
2013-05-25 06:09:50 PM  
gimmegimme:

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

You have no idea whether that's true.

What does "that" represent in your sentence?


Clearer now?
 
2013-05-25 06:12:28 PM  

YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.


Humans can't simply think things into or out of existence. Humans cannot create or destroy reality simply by a wave of their "hand". Humans cannot see the past beyond their experiences or the experiences of other humans, nor do they know the future.

Humans cannot do these things because they are, well, human. We have limits, many having to do with our own faults (greed, sloth etc). A god, by definition, doesn't have those limits, and can do anything they wish. Humans can't. This god could change the weather patterns and make the soil in the African nations fertile so that the people there could grow their own food with the merest thought. Why doesn't that happen?

Let's just say that for one day, you could prevent all the auto accidents in one large metropolitan area. With a word, all the cars that would crash into things and kill people could be stopped, just for that day. Yet you choose to go to each of the accident scenes just before they happen instead (because you know about them in advance), and simply watch. Does that make you malevolent, or just uncaring?

If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?
 
2013-05-25 06:35:28 PM  

rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?


As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.
 
2013-05-25 06:36:58 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?

As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.


Why can't those folks handle reality?  What's wrong with them?
 
2013-05-25 06:39:56 PM  
img835.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-25 06:43:33 PM  

rewind2846: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Humans can't simply think things into or out of existence. Humans cannot create or destroy reality simply by a wave of their "hand". Humans cannot see the past beyond their experiences or the experiences of other humans, nor do they know the future.

Humans cannot do these things because they are, well, human. We have limits, many having to do with our own faults (greed, sloth etc). A god, by definition, doesn't have those limits, and can do anything they wish. Humans can't. This god could change the weather patterns and make the soil in the African nations fertile so that the people there could grow their own food with the merest thought. Why doesn't that happen?

Let's just say that for one day, you could prevent all the auto accidents in one large metropolitan area. With a word, all the cars that would crash into things and kill people could be stopped, just for that day. Yet you choose to go to each of the accident scenes just before they happen instead (because you know about them in advance), and simply watch. Does that make you malevolent, or just uncaring?

If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?


Humans have control over a lot of things and yet we let bad shiat happen everyday. Doesnt make us all that inportant, does it?
 
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