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(Indiegogo)   Cool: Comedian Doug Stanhope starts an IndieGoGo campaign to raise $50,000 for the woman who said "I'm actually an atheist" after surviving the Oklahoma tornado. Really Cool: The goal was met in the first 24 hours. Fark: There are 59 days to go   (indiegogo.com) divider line 527
    More: Hero, Oklahoma, Doug Stanhope, Wolf Blitzer, yard sign  
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12943 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2013 at 6:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 05:12:06 PM
Little does she know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways.

R'Amen
 
2013-05-24 05:20:15 PM
Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.
 
2013-05-24 05:20:25 PM
Keep it open and see if you can hit a million.
 
2013-05-24 05:24:32 PM
Maybe she'll get enough to get out of Oklahoma.
I'm thinking she might not be real popular in her neighborhood now.
 
2013-05-24 05:33:08 PM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.
 
2013-05-24 05:35:07 PM
Let's show the world that you dont need to believe in a god to have human compassion nor does all charity fall under the banner of religion.

So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up.  That's nice.
 
2013-05-24 05:50:54 PM

Nabb1: So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up. That's nice.


Straw man? I can't begin to count the thousands of times I've been told about 'Christian charity' as if there were no other kind. The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.
 
2013-05-24 07:42:08 PM
The impact of getting Rebecca and her family properly housed by the atheist community will do far more good than sitting in bars or chat rooms mocking people of faith. Like religion, free-thinking will be more easily spread through compassion and decency.

Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.
 
2013-05-24 07:43:52 PM

Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.


I donated not because she was an atheist, but because she came out of the closet as an atheist in an area where this could get her ostracized or even harmed.  By good, charitable Christian folk.  That kind of courage and willingness to tell the truth should be rewarded.
 
2013-05-24 07:50:38 PM
Wha profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul.,
 
2013-05-24 08:11:19 PM

Dinki: Nabb1: So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up. That's nice.

Straw man? I can't begin to count the thousands of times I've been told about 'Christian charity' as if there were no other kind. The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.


Of course. I am sure it is as you say.
 
2013-05-24 08:15:14 PM
I wonder how much to get them out of Oklahoma?
 
2013-05-24 08:16:30 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:
Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.

Religious people, just like atheists, come in all shapes and sizes, some of which have their heads up their asses.

Just as you probably wouldn't like people to think all atheists are bloviating anti-theists, it's probably not a good idea to
claim all religious people act or think the same way.
 
2013-05-24 08:17:56 PM

Nabb1: Of course. I am sure it is as you say.


I've heard things like this as well as "People would have no morality if it wasn't for religion" arguments from religious people way more times than I can count.  I have a very tolerant non fundamentalist Christian friend ask me once how I would instil morals in my children without religion.  She wasn't trying to be mean about it, just asking because we were talking about religion/atheism.  She's one of the nice ones.
 
2013-05-24 08:21:56 PM

Hoban Washburne: Nabb1: Of course. I am sure it is as you say.

I've heard things like this as well as "People would have no morality if it wasn't for religion" arguments from religious people way more times than I can count.  I have a very tolerant non fundamentalist Christian friend ask me once how I would instil morals in my children without religion.  She wasn't trying to be mean about it, just asking because we were talking about religion/atheism.  She's one of the nice ones.


As have I, but some people seem to act as though that behavior is universal for all people of faith. It's the flip side of the same coin.
 
2013-05-24 08:24:33 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Benevolent Misanthrope:
Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.

Religious people, just like atheists, come in all shapes and sizes, some of which have their heads up their asses.

Just as you probably wouldn't like people to think all atheists are bloviating anti-theists, it's probably not a good idea to
claim all religious people act or think the same way.


So, you're saying that there are religious people who attribute the good things that happen in this world to something other than the positive workings of their belief system?  That Christians in particular (since I'm fairly certain that's the overwhelming majority in Oklahoma) don't attribute positive things to "God's Grace"?

Huh.  News to me.
 
2013-05-24 08:32:22 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:

So, you're saying that there are religious people who attribute the good things that happen in this world to something other than the positive workings of their belief system?  That Christians in particular (since I'm fairly certain that's the overwhelming majority in Oklahoma) don't attribute positive things to "God's Grace"?

Huh.  News to me.


Wow. That's a lot of inaccurate broad assumptions you've got going there. Is there some reason you seem so hateful of so many people who have never done you any harm? Sure, some may believe that. I know countless who don't. It's certainly not anything I was taught growing up.  You can be prejudiced if you want, but at least get your facts straight.
 
2013-05-24 08:45:32 PM

Nabb1: Benevolent Misanthrope:

So, you're saying that there are religious people who attribute the good things that happen in this world to something other than the positive workings of their belief system?  That Christians in particular (since I'm fairly certain that's the overwhelming majority in Oklahoma) don't attribute positive things to "God's Grace"?

Huh.  News to me.

Wow. That's a lot of inaccurate broad assumptions you've got going there. Is there some reason you seem so hateful of so many people who have never done you any harm? Sure, some may believe that. I know countless who don't. It's certainly not anything I was taught growing up.  You can be prejudiced if you want, but at least get your facts straight.


The entirety of the religious system does immeasurable harm, every day.  I know you're a believer, and you'll never agree, but seriously, it does.

I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion.  In the Christian example - the one we often see cited - their god is thanked for all good, through his omnipotence (and by the way - he must be really relieved he no longer has to worry about fixing games for that Tebow dude)... but they never seem to hold their god accountable for the bad stuff that, if he's all-powerful, he either created or allowed.  Why? Because God is all good.  So, it's a model of ingrained circular reasoning, and something that is, indeed, drilled into believers by many means.  That's just one.

Don't be surprised or shocked when those of us who don't believe refuse to let the assumption that we believe slide, refuse to put up with people who try to convince us that belief is as reasonable as reason, or refuse to be marginalized for not believing.  And don't be surprised when we characterize behaviors like giving hard-earned money to a non-corporeal being, defense of child rape, veneration of religious leaders who are anything but moral, and deference to an ancient and much-edited text for advice on living rather than making one's own judgment, as "servile".
 
2013-05-24 08:52:05 PM
Well, most bigots are convinced of their own righteousness. For
The record, I have absolutely nothing against atheists or atheism, and my own religios beliefs are more accurately described as agnostic, but my family is Catholic. So, when you launch into malicious missives against people of faith, don't mistake my disagreement of having anything to do with your faith or lack thereof, but with the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.
 
2013-05-24 09:05:24 PM

Nabb1: the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.


Wow.  Okay...

I'll just bow out here.  You're not making sense and it's obvious you're upset.

I will say this:  I don't disdain humanity.  I disdain people who take advantage of other people and who indoctrinate them to be taken advantage of.  And I disdain people who refuse to think.

On second thought, with that last one, perhaps I do disdain most humans.  Hmm.
 
2013-05-24 09:08:13 PM
I think it's quite possible that Wolf is patronizing her, and hoping for a highly emotional, affirmative response just for the entertainment value.

I mean, he's Jewish, so...thank the Lord, thank the Lord doesn't seem like it would be his sincere reaction.
 
2013-05-24 09:23:35 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.

Wow.  Okay...

I'll just bow out here.  You're not making sense and it's obvious you're upset.

I will say this:  I don't disdain humanity.  I disdain people who take advantage of other people and who indoctrinate them to be taken advantage of.  And I disdain people who refuse to think.

On second thought, with that last one, perhaps I do disdain most humans.  Hmm.


Sure, people who don't see the world the way you do just refuse to think. No, you're not prejudiced at all.
 
2013-05-24 09:38:40 PM
Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.
 
2013-05-24 09:41:48 PM
They sure are putting her in an awkward position.
 
2013-05-24 10:28:26 PM

Nabb1: Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.

Wow.  Okay...

I'll just bow out here.  You're not making sense and it's obvious you're upset.

I will say this:  I don't disdain humanity.  I disdain people who take advantage of other people and who indoctrinate them to be taken advantage of.  And I disdain people who refuse to think.

On second thought, with that last one, perhaps I do disdain most humans.  Hmm.

Sure, people who don't see the world the way you do just refuse to think. No, you're not prejudiced at all.


Oh, for Fark's sake.  That was a joke about humanity in general.  Poor, poor, persecuted Nabb1.  What happened to you?  You used to be so cool.
 
2013-05-24 11:37:53 PM
He's a funny comedian but he just has to be one of those douchebags who can't help but explain to you what an atheist he is at every opportunity. And yes, theists who are just as obnoxious are just as obnoxious.
 
2013-05-24 11:55:26 PM
static.jokes-db.com

Atheists are so cute
 
2013-05-25 12:00:24 AM
It's rare, but sometimes you gotta eject on takeoff.

www.gruntdoc.com
 
2013-05-25 12:25:46 AM
Benevolent Misanthrope:
Don't be surprised or shocked when those of us who don't believe refuse to let the assumption that we believe slide, refuse to put up with people who try to convince us that belief is as reasonable as reason, or refuse to be marginalized for not believing.  And don't be surprised when we characterize behaviors like giving hard-earned money to a non-corporeal being, defense of child rape, veneration of religious leaders who are anything but moral, and deference to ...

You're not an atheist, you're an anti-theist. And you're doing a brilliant job of reinforcing the negative stereotype too many people have of atheists.
 
2013-05-25 12:34:29 AM
Benevolent Misanthrope:
So, you're saying that there are religious people who attribute the good things that happen in this world to something other than the positive workings of their belief system?  That Christians in particular (since I'm fairly certain that's the overwhelming majority in Oklahoma) don't attribute positive things to "God's Graces.

I see. So you don't get it. Good to know.
 
2013-05-25 12:44:20 AM
I'm happy that the woman is being helped. I hope that everyone who suffered loss is as fortunate.
 
2013-05-25 12:56:40 AM

Langston: I'm happy that the woman is being helped. I hope that everyone who suffered loss is as fortunate.


Hope isn't enough.


We're gonna need you to pray.
 
2013-05-25 01:06:19 AM
I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be getting help from their local churches just because they're members of their local churches. Some little Baptist church right now likely has an collection for Sister Eunice and her brood.
 
2013-05-25 02:14:32 AM

Lor M. Ipsum: Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.


This happens all the time, and is one of the major barriers that disaster planners and relief agencies have to work around when they are planning contengiency plans for these situations when involving faith based organizations. And I have far, far more respect for organizations like the United Methodist Church that help everyone (they have a huge kitchen ministry for disasters) than I do for some local church that only helps their congregation or religious belief. . And yes, people WILL refuse to help you after something like this if you are not of faith, or more accurately - their faith. The Red Cross tries to form agreesments with some churches that refuse to act as shelters along the principles of  the Red Cross because they cannot actively evangalicise or restrict the people they help to only those of their faith.

When the Pope says you're a bunch of douchebags for alienating good people on the basis of their faith, you're a bunch of douchebags.

The fact of the matter is this woman should be commended for shooting down AC, and actually coming out as an Atheist
 
2013-05-25 02:31:41 AM

hardinparamedic: When the Pope says you're a bunch of douchebags for alienating good people on the basis of their faith, you're a bunch of douchebags.


It seems you linked this far less interesting article, when the real story is:

Is Pope Francis an Exorcist?
 
2013-05-25 02:34:20 AM

Lor M. Ipsum: Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.


How is our team going to succeed if we give money to the bad guys? If theists want a slice they can convert!
 
2013-05-25 02:40:39 AM

moothemagiccow: hardinparamedic: When the Pope says you're a bunch of douchebags for alienating good people on the basis of their faith, you're a bunch of douchebags.

It seems you linked this far less interesting article, when the real story is:

Is Pope Francis an Exorcist?


He kicks ass for The Lord.
 
2013-05-25 02:51:14 AM
I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.
 
2013-05-25 03:05:56 AM

hardinparamedic: When the Pope says you're a bunch of douchebags for alienating good people on the basis of their faith, you're a bunch of douchebags.


This meme is stupid. Just because nobody can spell hypocrisy doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
2013-05-25 03:10:50 AM

log_jammin: Rebecca Watson


After not immediately recognizing this name, I was entertained by the Encyclopedia Dramatica entry.
 
2013-05-25 03:11:34 AM
I'm not sure why you guys are bickering. I just think it's good to know that the Holy Grail I'll be buying is dishwasher safe.
 
2013-05-25 03:21:31 AM
Offering her help because she's an atheist is bullshiat.  That's like offering a whites-only scholarship.

Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims.  If atheists want to demonstrate their bona (sine) fides, they need to offer help to anyone who needs it, regardless of tribal/religious affiliation.
 
2013-05-25 03:33:30 AM

Captain Dan: Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims.


Sure about that? You've never seen a church raise money for its own members? Brother Ralph's house burned down, we're having a special collection today. Sister Francine needs surgery, so we're having a bake sale for her. It happens all the time.

This isn't a charity. It's people donating to an individual like themselves, the same as churches do.

And how many Christian charities make receiving their aid contingent upon listening to their sales pitch if you're not a member? It's not like it's without strings all the time. Sure, there are some really good ones that don't do that, but there are also plenty that do.
 
2013-05-25 03:55:17 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: And how many Christian charities make receiving their aid contingent upon listening to their sales pitch if you're not a member? It's not like it's without strings all the time. Sure, there are some really good ones that don't do that, but there are also plenty that do.


I've attended over a dozen churches across the country and never encountered that.

If a church did that, I would call them out on their bullshiat.  Selective aid is un-Christian behavior, and any church who practiced it would deserve all the ignominy they receive.

The parable of the Good Samaritan was intended to demonstrate the ethical imperative of helping all people, even those who you hate or have nothing in common with.  Jesus's teachings on this could not be any more clear.
 
2013-05-25 04:07:42 AM

Captain Dan: The parable of the Good Samaritan was intended to demonstrate the ethical imperative of helping all people, even those who you hate or have nothing in common with.  Jesus's teachings on this could not be any more clear.


I don't know if you ever noticed this or not, but there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians that don't have anything to do with what you're talking about.

See the GOP base for more details.
 
2013-05-25 04:17:58 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: I don't know if you ever noticed this or not, but there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians that don't have anything to do with what you're talking about.


Yes, they're called bad people.
 
2013-05-25 04:19:51 AM
lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more
 
2013-05-25 04:33:10 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more


she might not get invited to as many back yard bbqs. that...that's about it.
 
2013-05-25 04:38:06 AM

Captain Dan: Lenny_da_Hog: I don't know if you ever noticed this or not, but there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians that don't have anything to do with what you're talking about.

Yes, they're called bad people.


They're also called "missionaries." Supernaturalists have a long history of seeking out people in emotional trauma to convert them while they're in an irrational state.

But again, this isn't a charity. It's not a big organization that's collecting money and passing it out to various people based on a belief structure. It's people donating to an individual like themselves, just like any church might do for one of their own. Who knows, she might spread some of that around to other people, you don't know.
 
2013-05-25 04:55:14 AM

log_jammin: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more

she might not get invited to as many back yard bbqs. that...that's about it.


Or passed over for jobs and advancement.
 
2013-05-25 04:55:55 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Or passed over for jobs and advancement.


I doubt it.
 
2013-05-25 05:23:55 AM

Captain Dan: Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims.


BULL. shiat.

As I pointed out before, this is one of the major issues with disaster planning when engaging with Faith-based organizations. There are still churches out there that either A) Demand the right to evangelize or prosthelatize to the people they are aiding in a disaster, or B) Demand that they only help members of their congregation alone.

This is the reason that the American Red Cross will flat out refuse an offer from a church or homeless shelter to shelter victims after a disaster if they try to pull that shiat, and will even close a shelter or pull their endorsement if they catch someone doing that.
 
2013-05-25 05:43:52 AM

hardinparamedic: As I pointed out before... the American Red Cross will flat out refuse an offer from a church or homeless shelter to shelter victims after a disaster if they try to pull that shiat...


Okay.  Let me rephrase my statement: "The overwhelming majority of Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims, and the few who do deserve to be kicked right in the ass, by good Christians and good atheists alike."
 
2013-05-25 05:44:51 AM

log_jammin: Lenny_da_Hog: Or passed over for jobs and advancement.

I doubt it.


Yeah. Nobody networks through their churches for employment or advancement. The phrase, "it's not what you know, it's who you know" is one I just made up just this very second all on my own.
 
2013-05-25 05:53:26 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. Nobody networks through their churches for employment or advancement.


Nobody? the idea that "nobody" networks through their churches for employment or advancement is absurd.

But since less than 20% of Americans attend church on a regular basis, and that combined with the numerous flavors and sects of Christianity in the US, I think it's fair to assume that the vast majority don't.

so again. "I doubt it."
 
2013-05-25 06:04:30 AM

Captain Dan: hardinparamedic: As I pointed out before... the American Red Cross will flat out refuse an offer from a church or homeless shelter to shelter victims after a disaster if they try to pull that shiat...

Okay.  Let me rephrase my statement: "The overwhelming majority of Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims, and the few who do deserve to be kicked right in the ass, by good Christians and good atheists alike."


Uh-huh.

The North American Mission Board  exists to work with churches, associations and state conventions in mobilizing Southern Baptists as a missional force to impact North America with the gospel of Jesus Christ through evangelism and church planting.

Note that the missionary work is not limited to disaster relief. Disaster relief is just another mission for conversion.

Here is NAMB's page for Southern Baptist disaster missionary work, including the Moore tornado. The purpose of Baptist charity work is to win souls for Christ.

And here is their report on their missionary work: Within hours of the deadly EF5 tornado striking Moore, Okla., on Monday, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief chaplains were ministering to families at both elementary schools in the community destroyed by the storm.

Note that the report goes into great detail about missionary work and calls it a "ministry" over and over. They are providing aid, but they are more interested in spreading and reinforcing religious beliefs.
 
2013-05-25 06:15:03 AM

log_jammin: Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah. Nobody networks through their churches for employment or advancement.

Nobody? the idea that "nobody" networks through their churches for employment or advancement is absurd.

But since less than 20% of Americans attend church on a regular basis, and that combined with the numerous flavors and sects of Christianity in the US, I think it's fair to assume that the vast majority don't.

so again. "I doubt it."


You missed the sarcasm font. You're also wrong, according to Pew. The national average of weekly attendance is 39%.

Oklahoma is the 7th most religious state in the US -- there, half the population attends *weekly*. Another 25% attend regularly, at least a few times a year. (No direct link to the map, but you can find it in a few clicks from here)
 
2013-05-25 06:26:25 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: You're also wrong, according to Pew. The national average of weekly attendance is 39%


The article I linked quoted Gallop. I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the middle of the two.

Lenny_da_Hog: Oklahoma is the 7th most religious state in the US -- there, half the population attends *weekly*. Another 25% attend regularly, at least a few times a year. (No direct link to the map, but you can find it in a few clicks from here)


half SAY they attend weekly and the attend regular group includes  "Few times a year" that'sEaster andChristmas. You could have included me in that group a few years ago when my wife would ask me to go to midnight mass with her.

I doubt this lady experiences more than a few whispers between coworkers about "did you hear she's an atheist?". and hopefully she won't even experience that until her home is rebuilt and her life is back in order. There is a lot of derp and derpers in red states, but for the most part, the people in them, don't worry themselves of what religion their coworkers are, or aren't.
 
2013-05-25 06:28:31 AM
how about the times a translator on a american tv station talks over what a person is saying in their native language and when the interviewee say "allah" the translator says "god" instead. you hear the interviewee say yabba dabba doo allah scooby doo and the translator says i thank god my child is safe.
 
2013-05-25 06:28:47 AM
So an F5 tornado hits Oklahoma, and some people are getting together to raise money to help one specific person?

I have little care about the reason why you give, but I do care when people are prejudicial about their giving.

Hypocrites.
 
2013-05-25 06:32:42 AM

starlost: how about the times a translator on a american tv station talks over what a person is saying in their native language and when the interviewee say "allah" the translator says "god" instead. you hear the interviewee say yabba dabba doo allah scooby doo and the translator says i thank god my child is safe.


ok....how about it?
 
2013-05-25 06:33:35 AM

log_jammin: Lenny_da_Hog: You're also wrong, according to Pew. The national average of weekly attendance is 39%

The article I linked quoted Gallop. I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the middle of the two.


The article you linked quoted Gallup as saying 40% of Americans attend regularly, but that church growth site knows the REAL truth:

While Gallup polls and other statisticians have turned in the same percentage - about 40% of the population - of average weekend church attendees for the past 70 years, a different sort of research paints quite a disparate picture of how many Americans attend a local church on any given Sunday.
 
2013-05-25 06:34:27 AM
Gawd, Zeus, Budda somebody do something. Damn it Satan you owe me one.

Hopefully not obscure.
 
2013-05-25 06:35:12 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: he article you linked quoted Gallup as saying 40% of Americans attend regularly, but that church growth site knows the REAL truth:


well...uh....never mind then....
 
2013-05-25 06:35:44 AM

log_jammin: I doubt this lady experiences more than a few whispers between coworkers about "did you hear she's an atheist?". and hopefully she won't even experience that until her home is rebuilt and her life is back in order. There is a lot of derp and derpers in red states, but for the most part, the people in them, don't worry themselves of what religion their coworkers are, or aren't.


Whether or not that's the case, Jimmy-Joe-Bob's church-goin' friend's sister-in-law is going to be preferred for jobs and advancement over the people who don't network through their churches.
 
2013-05-25 06:35:56 AM

starlost: how about the times a translator on a american tv station talks over what a person is saying in their native language and when the interviewee say "allah" the translator says "god" instead. you hear the interviewee say yabba dabba doo allah scooby doo and the translator says i thank god my child is safe.


What a totally not ignorant and not racist statement.

Lenny_da_Hog: Note that the report goes into great detail about missionary work and calls it a "ministry" over and over. They are providing aid, but they are more interested in spreading and reinforcing religious beliefs.


This, pretty much. It's one of the reasons I stopped donating to a local homeless shelter that I lived by when I first moved into Memphis a few years back. They were actually refusing people entry unless they attended their church service and bible study, and had a habit of excluding LGBT homeless.

It's also the reason I'll never. Ever. EVER. Support the Salvation Army in any way.
 
2013-05-25 06:39:39 AM

log_jammin: I doubt this lady experiences more than a few whispers between coworkers about "did you hear she's an atheist?". and hopefully she won't even experience that until her home is rebuilt and her life is back in order. There is a lot of derp and derpers in red states, but for the most part, the people in them, don't worry themselves of what religion their coworkers are, or aren't.


Studies have found that people who commit abhorrant crimes are trusted more than Atheists and Secular Humanists in the United States. In reality, discrimination against Atheists in employment and government positions is rampant, even going so far as to being written into State employment laws and even State Constitutions when it comes to holding political office. Many states in the south outright make it illegal for an Atheist or nOn-theist to hold office.
 
2013-05-25 06:43:54 AM
I've always felt that, if there is a deity, he, she or it thinks of atheists as those quiet neighbours who keep to themselves, keep their place looking decent, don't throw noisy parties, don't come calling every other day to borrow stuff, and don't mow their lawns at 7 am on a weekend or listen to Black Sabbath at 2 am on a weeknight, unless it's with headphones. You may not be on a first-name basis with them but you'd move heaven and earth to keep them from moving out.
 
2013-05-25 06:44:36 AM
Will Penn Gillette, Richard Dawkins, et al jump on board with Stanhope?
 
2013-05-25 06:46:48 AM
Atheism is a Religion.
 
2013-05-25 06:47:37 AM
This thread escalated quickly...

Look, the woman interviewed was put in an awkward situation immediately following what was probably the worst/scariest/disastrous moment of her life.  The real asshole is Wolf Blitzer for going around bothering people after they lost their homes, and quite possibly, family/friends.

I've never heard of the comedian that started the fundraiser.  There was probably better ways he could of gone about this, but the end result is good.  Can't argue with results.
 
2013-05-25 06:48:15 AM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Deep Throat is a porno.
 
2013-05-25 06:48:21 AM

Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.


Your totally unprejudiced ass had better be writing a check to "Save the Pedophiles" right now.
 
2013-05-25 06:48:56 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: log_jammin: Rebecca Watson

After not immediately recognizing this name, I was entertained by the Encyclopedia Dramatica entry.


You should also look up 'porn'
 
2013-05-25 06:49:48 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.

I donated not because she was an atheist, but because she came out of the closet as an atheist in an area where this could get her ostracized or even harmed.  By good, charitable Christian folk.  That kind of courage and willingness to tell the truth should be rewarded.


At least they can't burn her house down.
 
2013-05-25 06:51:10 AM

neritz: I wonder how much to get them out of Oklahoma?


Now that she's out as an atheist, her neighbors will raise that money.
 
2013-05-25 06:52:52 AM

nekom: Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist? Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


Someone isn't happy that atheists can actually care for others and do good.

"That's our thing, damn it!"
 
2013-05-25 06:55:08 AM

John Buck 41: Atheists are so cute


You obviously didn't saw the clip.

But the need to biatch about atheists is simply so irresistible.
 
2013-05-25 06:55:29 AM
you heartless, cynical farks. where do you get the nerve? Have you ever experienced anything adverse in your entire life?my mothers house had 38 feet of water wash over it. you don't know shiat. Quit trying to act cool on the farking Internet and realize that some people out here have real god damn problems.
 
2013-05-25 06:55:32 AM

hardinparamedic: log_jammin: I doubt this lady experiences more than a few whispers between coworkers about "did you hear she's an atheist?". and hopefully she won't even experience that until her home is rebuilt and her life is back in order. There is a lot of derp and derpers in red states, but for the most part, the people in them, don't worry themselves of what religion their coworkers are, or aren't.

Studies have found that people who commit abhorrant crimes are trusted more than Atheists and Secular Humanists in the United States. In reality, discrimination against Atheists in employment and government positions is rampant, even going so far as to being written into State employment laws and even State Constitutions when it comes to holding political office. Many states in the south outright make it illegal for an Atheist or nOn-theist to hold office.




When will people realize that most of what takes place in the south isn't Christianity? It's hate speech hidden behind 'religious' values that no educated Christian would ever condone.

And while I know I dont get to disown these people from my religion, I fully believe they would find any vehicle they could to continue teaching their close minded prejudices to their crotch fruit.
 
2013-05-25 06:57:15 AM

DrewFL: you heartless, cynical farks. where do you get the nerve? Have you ever experienced anything adverse in your entire life?my mothers house had 38 feet of water wash over it. you don't know shiat. Quit trying to act cool on the farking Internet and realize that some people out here have real god damn problems.


... I honestly don't know which "heartless, cynical farks" you mean here. This is Fark, after all.
 
2013-05-25 06:58:08 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be getting help from their local churches just because they're members of their local churches. Some little Baptist church right now likely has an collection for Sister Eunice and her brood.


But that is perfectly fine and just their way of expressing their beliefs.

It is so tiring hearing of the christian supermajority whine all the time about oppression and accuse atheists of being in your face the moment one of us steps out of the shadows.

No, not all religious folk are the same, but when there are so many of you even a minority can be larger and more vocal than the entire group of US atheists.

Why won't the moderate christians condem the actions of the crazies? How many times has an atheists challenged your beliefs to your face? Never? Once? Happens to be nearly every time I have ever discussed my lack of faith. We just suck it up 99 percent of the time, every time somebody says I will pray for you or god bless you we brush it off. But the time we say "oh actually I do not believe" then tards like Glenn Beck scream about how we are attention whores. No, you are just so used to everything being about religion that any minor challenge is an outrage.
 
2013-05-25 06:58:21 AM

INeedAName: So an F5 tornado hits Oklahoma, and some people are getting together to raise money to help one specific person?

I have little care about the reason why you give, but I do care when people are prejudicial about their giving.

Hypocrites.


They're helping someone. There is nothing wrong with that. Eat, as they say, a dick.
 
2013-05-25 06:58:41 AM

INeedAName: So an F5 tornado hits Oklahoma, and some people are getting together to raise money to help one specific person?

I have little care about the reason why you give, but I do care when people are prejudicial about their giving.

Hypocrites.


How many times did you made that comment about members of a cult organizing themselves under the pretext of helping other members of their cult?
 
2013-05-25 06:58:46 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more


Seriously. I'm from Bama, been an atheist since 15, and never had a big bunch of Christians come up and try to attack me because I'm an atheist. I think these people in these big urban centers must have been gradually creating more and more absurd and elaborate urban legends about what the rest of the country is like outside of their particular city.

"They all have assault rifles they carry all the time, even to church -which they go to twice a day-, and if you're black or say that you're an Atheist they shoot you!!"
 
2013-05-25 06:59:56 AM

Captain Dan: Offering her help because she's an atheist is bullshiat.  That's like offering a whites-only scholarship.

Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims.  If atheists want to demonstrate their bona (sine) fides, they need to offer help to anyone who needs it, regardless of tribal/religious affiliation.


But she's an atheist! That automatically makes her a scientist and better than everyone. And we always need a new avenue for shiatty second-rate hack comedians to prove that they have real value and worth. Quit being so oppressive!

/understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"
 
2013-05-25 07:00:10 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Whether or not that's the case, Jimmy-Joe-Bob's church-goin' friend's sister-in-law is going to be preferred for jobs and advancement over the people who don't network through their churches.


hardinparamedic: Studies have found that people who commit abhorrant crimes are trusted more than Atheists and Secular Humanists in the United States. In reality, discrimination against Atheists in employment and government positions is rampant, even going so far as to being written into State employment laws and even State Constitutions when it comes to holding political office. Many states in the south outright make it illegal for an Atheist or nOn-theist to hold office.


I'm not saying atheists are not discriminated against, or that she won't be. I just don't think it's likely based on a 30 second comment made in the aftermath of a horrific event. People are busy mourning and rebuilding. Now if she's the militant type(which I highly doubt) or is very vocal about it(which I also doubt) then I think her odds of being discriminated against get a lot higher.

I only have anecdotes about myself(agnostic) and the few wiccans, atheists  and buddhists in my deeply red state. But in this case that's good enough for me since we know knowing about her, her job, coworkers, etc.. to know.
 
2013-05-25 07:00:21 AM
Note to self: Next time in an interview after a tornado on a cable news network and asked if I thanked the lord for this, replay with, "I am indeed grateful that the lord saw fit to veer the tornado over the elementary school in order to spare me".
 
2013-05-25 07:00:23 AM

INeedAName: When will people realize that most of what takes place in the south isn't Christianity? It's hate speech hidden behind 'religious' values that no educated Christian would ever condone.

And while I know I dont get to disown these people from my religion, I fully believe they would find any vehicle they could to continue teaching their close minded prejudices to their crotch fruit.


It's not Christianity. But that doesn't stop people from using it to discriminate.
 
2013-05-25 07:00:52 AM

The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"


You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?
 
2013-05-25 07:03:44 AM

dforkus: Wha profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul.,


Matthew 16:26 I believe.

...

Tell me, what were Lisa's last words?
 
2013-05-25 07:03:50 AM

Dinki: Nabb1: So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up. That's nice.

Straw man? I can't begin to count the thousands of times I've been told about 'Christian charity' as if there were no other kind. The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.


I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.
 
2013-05-25 07:07:07 AM

liam76: I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.


An, in a general sense, neither do atheists. Let's all remember that this one campaign /= the sum total of atheist giving.
 
2013-05-25 07:07:13 AM
My favourite reply to the quote "Atheism is a religion" is to mention that, in such a case, it is entitled to every single protection under law religions have.
 
2013-05-25 07:07:59 AM
Such a passive aggressive and elitist thing to do...Because Stanhope had media and a figurehead he made a bullshiat point for no ones benefit but his own (im sure the "randomly atheist" winner was vetted and their home inspected for F5 code. Just shiatty. it's the belt buckle of the USA. People are religious there. It was an exceedingly mean and shiatty thing to do.
 
2013-05-25 07:09:23 AM

Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.


I think the initial intent was to counter the argument that she SHOULDN'T be helped because she is an athiest.
 
2013-05-25 07:10:40 AM

clovercat: Note to self: Next time in an interview after a tornado on a cable news network and asked if I thanked the lord for this, replay with, "I am indeed grateful that the lord saw fit to veer the tornado over the elementary school in order to spare me".


And so much this.
 
2013-05-25 07:10:45 AM
I'll say I'm an atheist for $50,000!
 
2013-05-25 07:10:52 AM

LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?


To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".
 
2013-05-25 07:11:44 AM

Mugato: He's a funny comedian but he just has to be one of those douchebags who can't help but explain to you what an atheist he is at every opportunity. And yes, theists who are just as obnoxious are just as obnoxious.


Every routine that you happen to listen to ≠ every opportunity. It's part of his shtick that get the audience going. He probably talks about other things during the day. Well, I mean after he wakes up at 7pm.
 
2013-05-25 07:12:07 AM

LasersHurt: liam76: I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.

An, in a general sense, neither do atheists. Let's all remember that this one campaign /= the sum total of atheist giving.


I am highlighting the problem with "this one campaign".

He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".
 
2013-05-25 07:14:23 AM

DrewFL: im sure the "randomly atheist" winner was vetted and their home inspected for F5 code.



Glenn Beck: Wolf Blitzer's Atheist Interview Was A Setup
 
2013-05-25 07:17:29 AM

liam76: He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".


Maybe. Maybe not. He did this instead. Seems a little "on the nose" for me, but I also kind of get it. After that interview, that woman got a lot of grief from people - even locals - for having the gall to be atheist. This is kind of a "screw you" back to those people.

Not my cup of tea, but meh.

The Billdozer: To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".


This has been explained so many times that I'm not going to go into detail here, but you MUST know that that's an absurd comparison? People who don't collect stamps don't get threatened and discriminated against. People who don't collect stamps aren't legally prohibited from holding offices in some places. People who don't collect stamps are not rated as less trustworthy than criminals by the majority of Americans.

It's different because it's different. It's important to atheists because NON atheists MAKE it important.
 
2013-05-25 07:18:25 AM

DrewFL: It was an exceedingly mean and shiatty thing to do.


In what farking way, you loon?
 
2013-05-25 07:21:11 AM
The Billdozer: I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

Atheism is indeed a Religion, just not a very good one. One of the tenets of this religion is that this religion isn't a religion, because religion is for saps.

It reminds me of the motto of the Moderation Party: "Only Radicals need a motto".
 
2013-05-25 07:24:44 AM

letrole: The Billdozer: I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

Atheism is indeed a Religion, just not a very good one. One of the tenets of this religion is that this religion isn't a religion, because religion is for saps.

It reminds me of the motto of the Moderation Party: "Only Radicals need a motto".


Hey, look!


Someone updated its auto-reply script database!
 
2013-05-25 07:25:38 AM

letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion, just not a very good one. One of the tenets of this religion is that this religion isn't a religion, because religion is for saps.

It reminds me of the motto of the Moderation Party: "Only Radicals need a motto".


Just what a filthy neutral would say.

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-25 07:27:29 AM

LasersHurt: liam76: He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".

Maybe. Maybe not. He did this instead. Seems a little "on the nose" for me, but I also kind of get it. After that interview, that woman got a lot of grief from people - even locals - for having the gall to be atheist. This is kind of a "screw you" back to those people.

Not my cup of tea, but meh.

The Billdozer: To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

This has been explained so many times that I'm not going to go into detail here, but you MUST know that that's an absurd comparison? People who don't collect stamps don't get threatened and discriminated against. People who don't collect stamps aren't legally prohibited from holding offices in some places. People who don't collect stamps are not rated as less trustworthy than criminals by the majority of Americans.

It's different because it's different. It's important to atheists because NON atheists MAKE it important.


Its important because you want it to be. I'll give you a life tip: Although discrimination of all types exists, more and more people are fine tuning it to discriminate against one type... Assholes. Blitzer was an asshole for leading the interview this way and asking a loaded question, the lady was an asshole for having to have her 15 seconds of internet neckbeard fame for proclaiming her non-faith which had jack shiat to do with the situation, and Stanhope is an asshole because he's using this opportunity to further his own shiatty agenda and career.
 
2013-05-25 07:28:14 AM
for all you twits know she could be a shiatty mother, a meth head, and generally all around bad person.  she probably isn't but she could be and none of you would know the difference or even care.

I love stanhope (I've got 7 of his albums on my phone) but ffs he's like a broken record with the militant atheism.  he could also stand to distance himself a bit from Alex Jones (see the Austin incident).
 
2013-05-25 07:29:14 AM

The Billdozer: Its important because you want it to be. I'll give you a life tip: Although discrimination of all types exists, more and more people are fine tuning it to discriminate against one type... Assholes. Blitzer was an asshole for leading the interview this way and asking a loaded question, the lady was an asshole for having to have her 15 seconds of internet neckbeard fame for proclaiming her non-faith which had jack shiat to do with the situation, and Stanhope is an asshole because he's using this opportunity to further his own shiatty agenda and career.


So you are simply ignorant and dismissive.
 
2013-05-25 07:29:23 AM

liam76: He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".


Why, when we can just donate to the Red Cross, and don't have to invent a self-aggrandizing competing organization that would likely be less efficient?

There are a lot of people getting support through their churches because they are members of their churches, I guarantee.
 
2013-05-25 07:31:50 AM

maggoo: INeedAName: So an F5 tornado hits Oklahoma, and some people are getting together to raise money to help one specific person?

I have little care about the reason why you give, but I do care when people are prejudicial about their giving.

Hypocrites.

How many times did you made that comment about members of a cult organizing themselves under the pretext of helping other members of their cult?


Your criticism would be warranted if the check I wrote said Christians Only. Instead we have a group of people who are heaping praise on someone engaging in discrimination, but since it benefits the people we like, it's okay?
 
2013-05-25 07:32:05 AM
why should I send the Christians anything?  God will provide!
 
2013-05-25 07:32:31 AM

LasersHurt: After that interview, that woman got a lot of grief from people - even locals - for having the gall to be atheist.


Did she?  That is news to me.

Any links?  I heard the regular nuts claiming she was a plant but I didn't hear of her getting any grief.
 
2013-05-25 07:33:51 AM
Generosity like that is proof that God exists.
 
2013-05-25 07:35:02 AM
It appears to me that what happened in this interview, is precisely the sort of thing I wish more people would say.  Every time there is a disaster, someone is there praying to God to help them rebuild.  There are a bunch of others who were not affected at all, praying to God to help also.
WHERE WAS GOD BEFORE THE TRAGEDY?!?

And lets not forget about jerkoffs like Tim Teebow who literally pray to God every time he steps out on to the field.  So, in his view, God is going to pay more attention to the game than to little children being smashed in a school, or any of the other gazillion tragedies that happen every day.  Or music award shows, where the winning artists "thank you" speech always opens with "Thank God, of course".  In other words, "Fark all the rest of you people.  I've got 15 BMWs!!"

That's one of the things that has always annoyed me about religious types.  And it's also the reason I think this woman answered that stupid farking question about whether she is thanking the Lord, she essentially said, "Fark you, you idiot!  I don't even believe in God.  Do you think this is helping any?!"
 
2013-05-25 07:35:54 AM

liam76: LasersHurt: After that interview, that woman got a lot of grief from people - even locals - for having the gall to be atheist.

Did she?  That is news to me.

Any links?  I heard the regular nuts claiming she was a plant but I didn't hear of her getting any grief.


After a bit of searching I couldn't find what I had read before, so take it with a grain of salt. If I come across it I'll try to remember to post it.
 
2013-05-25 07:37:23 AM

INeedAName: Instead we have a group of people who are heaping praise on someone engaging in discrimination, but since it benefits the people we like, it's okay?


Giving something to ONE PERSON is discrimination?

If I give my friend 10 bucks, am I discriminating against you?
 
2013-05-25 07:41:26 AM

fat boy: Little does she know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways.

R'Amen


sure does
 
2013-05-25 07:41:48 AM
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things" - Isaiah 45:6b-7

Ummm, thanks, Lord, for sparing me from the tornado you sent after me?
 
2013-05-25 07:42:11 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.

I donated not because she was an atheist, but because she came out of the closet as an atheist in an area where this could get her ostracized or even harmed.  By good, charitable Christian folk.  That kind of courage and willingness to tell the truth should be rewarded.


I kind of doubt that she will be ostracized or harmed . Speaking your mind about being an athiest isn't really frowned upon these days . Even if it's in a place that you" imagined" would be backwards and rural . I'm pretty sure there are some gangstas, goths and juggalo's around there also .
 
2013-05-25 07:45:36 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: The impact of getting Rebecca and her family properly housed by the atheist community will do far more good than sitting in bars or chat rooms mocking people of faith. Like religion, free-thinking will be more easily spread through compassion and decency.

Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.


Well my hypothetical atheists will just spend that donation money on abortions.
 
2013-05-25 07:46:18 AM

starlost: allah


In Arabic, "Al" means "the" and "Ah" means essence, breath, or Holy Spirit. The literal translation for "Allah" is "The Holy Spirit". It's not a name, it's a description. And since Christians hold that The Holy Spirit is of the Trinity, and that the Trinity is one God, the translation to "God" is accurate.

The word "God" is not a name either. see Exodus 3:14
 
2013-05-25 07:47:06 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


This.
 
2013-05-25 07:47:13 AM
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh I needed a good laugh, thanks believers!
 
2013-05-25 07:48:50 AM
Welder's Union helps a Welder: OK
Teachers help a teacher: OK
Left-handers help a left-hander: OK
Atheists help an atheist: NOT OK
 
2013-05-25 07:49:38 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.

I donated not because she was an atheist, but because she came out of the closet as an atheist in an area where this could get her ostracized or even harmed.  By good, charitable Christian folk.  That kind of courage and willingness to tell the truth should be rewarded.


What would you say if someone assumed a group of people would commit crimes just because they were black or Latino?  My God (pun intended), you're a hypocrite.
 
2013-05-25 07:49:52 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


same here.  Now if the atheists set up soup kitchens and help millions eat each year, they will be on a level playing field with the christians they despise so much.  i say despise, because look at tfa.  Come on liberal elites, you can do it ;)

/get fsm to fix my shift key, too
 
2013-05-25 07:52:39 AM

John Buck 41: [static.jokes-db.com image 294x400]

Atheists are so cute


The woman in question was NOT whoring for attention about Atheism. She probably never would have mentioned it if she hadn't been PUSHED into saying something. So, y'know. Suck it.
 
2013-05-25 07:53:03 AM

stonelotus: for all you twits know she could be a shiatty mother, a meth head, and generally all around bad person.  she probably isn't but she could be and none of you would know the difference or even care.

I love stanhope (I've got 7 of his albums on my phone) but ffs he's like a broken record with the militant atheism.  he could also stand to distance himself a bit from Alex Jones (see the Austin incident).


So we shouldn't help her because of that? I'm not picking up what you're putting down here. We should only help "good" people?
 
2013-05-25 07:53:34 AM
The Billdozer:
To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".


Though your initial statement was indeed dumb; most blanket statements tend to be. I agree your following attempt to explain your bigoted opinion is even dumber. I'm not even going to waste time explaining why, since you can just read up on the last couple of post.
 
2013-05-25 07:53:53 AM

Sir VG: dforkus: Wha profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul.,

Matthew 16:26 I believe.

...

Tell me, what were Lisa's last words?


"You have your mother's eyes."

/SotN was a great game, wasn't it?
 
2013-05-25 07:55:16 AM

Nabb1: Benevolent Misanthrope:

So, you're saying that there are religious people who attribute the good things that happen in this world to something other than the positive workings of their belief system?  That Christians in particular (since I'm fairly certain that's the overwhelming majority in Oklahoma) don't attribute positive things to "God's Grace"?

Huh.  News to me.

Wow. That's a lot of inaccurate broad assumptions you've got going there. Is there some reason you seem so hateful of so many people who have never done you any harm? Sure, some may believe that. I know countless who don't. It's certainly not anything I was taught growing up.  You can be prejudiced if you want, but at least get your facts straight.


Not wanting anything to do with religion is not prejudice, if you have the freedom of religion I would like the freedom from religion, me not wanting to hear anything about religion should be a right as well.
I respect your right to your beliefs so whats the deal with respecting my beliefs that it has no place in society outside of your church or home.
 
2013-05-25 07:56:30 AM

kimmygibblershomework: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

same here.  Now if the atheists set up soup kitchens and help millions eat each year, they will be on a level playing field with the christians they despise so much.  i say despise, because look at tfa.  Come on liberal elites, you can do it ;)

/get fsm to fix my shift key, too


We do, we just don't generally do it under YE OLDE ATHEIST BANNER, and when some do...well hey lookie lookie. And as to 'despise' I know Christians loooove to play the underdog and the persecution card, but that's farking redonkulous.

I'm more than willing to bet I've done more for humanity than most 'Christians', and with zero expectation of reward in the hereafter. Nor do I do it to impress anyone about atheism. I do it because I'm a humanist. And if someone can come up and say 'nuh uh...' then I say...WOOT! Great! Awesome! More help for more people, woo hoo. Because THAT is the farking goal.

Suck it.
 
2013-05-25 07:58:29 AM
So atheists only take care of people who share their beliefs and the Christians take care of everyone.  And the Christians are the bad guys?
 
2013-05-25 07:59:42 AM

Thisbymaster: So atheists only take care of people who share their beliefs and the Christians take care of everyone.  And the Christians are the bad guys?


Do you really believe this is the ONLY giving, at all, that will or has been done by Atheists? Really? Surely you are not so ignorant.
 
2013-05-25 08:00:45 AM

Thisbymaster: So atheists only take care of people who share their beliefs and the Christians take care of everyone.  And the Christians are the bad guys?


i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-05-25 08:01:11 AM
god is a pooka
 
2013-05-25 08:01:59 AM

Thisbymaster: So atheists only take care of people who share their beliefs and the Christians take care of everyone.  And the Christians are the bad guys?


It was a good effort on your part but I'm sorry, you just don't have what it takes for the big leagues.
 
2013-05-25 08:03:40 AM

Dinki: The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.

 
2013-05-25 08:04:02 AM
Anyone read the perks offered on that site?  "Get out of hell free" card, "First choice for reincarnation, " etc.

Personally I didn't find them funny and they detract from the classiness of the overall effort, if you ask me.
 
2013-05-25 08:04:52 AM

Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.


Stanhope is funny as hell and an evangelical atheist.

As a firm "believe what you want and I'll do the same without pushing it on you" kind of guy it's the one part of his personality that irritates me.
 
2013-05-25 08:05:29 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: You're not an atheist, you're an anti-theist. And you're doing a brilliant job of reinforcing the negative stereotype too many people have of atheists.


Oh well, I'll just say THIS.
/Fark
//where the non religious come to hate the religious.
 
2013-05-25 08:05:35 AM
The mechanics of any church are engineered to help out their own, this is how and why they exist. They pool their capital and then direct it to the less fortunate among them. It is a kind and thoughtful system.

They all have criteria on which they base their decisions to help, some are egalitarian, some are less so. Some just pay their pastors extravagantly and build monuments to themselves. Most of them pat themselves on the back. People go to church for all kinds of different reasons.

As a Katrina participant I saved the lives of a handful of people and changed the odds for dozens more. I lost a great deal. I got a new set of tires from the Red Cross, a sack of barbecue from Laney's of Selma, and $40 plus two packs of cigarettes from a guy at a gas station. I was not approached by any church.
 
2013-05-25 08:06:26 AM
Every time these threads come up and people come out of the woodwork to smack on atheists, I wonder what planet they're from.  There are Christian fundies all over America forcing laws and policy, based on their religious values, onto all of us.  From the Christian war on Planned Parenthood and reproductive rights, to the relegation of gays and lesbians as second-class citizens, to putting "Intelligent Design" into high school science class rooms, etc.

And that's just in America.  Islamic countries have it worse.

"Atheist" is synonymous with "anti-theism," and their getting confrontational and somewhat militant is a natural, logical, and even MORAL response to what can be thought of as Christian Fascism in America.  Atheism...Secularism...Humanism...whatever you want to call it...THEY'RE THE GOOD GUYS IN ALL OF THIS!
 
2013-05-25 08:07:20 AM

kimmygibblershomework: same here.  Now if the atheists set up soup kitchens and help millions eat each year, they will be on a level playing field with the christians they despise so much.  i say despise, because look at tfa.  Come on liberal elites, you can do it ;)


I don't know if this one serves soup, in in terms of dollars spent on charity, it probably covers about a Midwestern state worth of church charity.

And atheists don't waste a bunch of our charitable donations on trying to get people to believe in fairy tales.
 
2013-05-25 08:08:00 AM
Praise be to the almighty Science!
 
2013-05-25 08:08:25 AM
I quote Ferris Bueller quoting John Lennon...."I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me."
 
2013-05-25 08:10:12 AM

BMFPitt: kimmygibblershomework: same here.  Now if the atheists set up soup kitchens and help millions eat each year, they will be on a level playing field with the christians they despise so much.  i say despise, because look at tfa.  Come on liberal elites, you can do it ;)

I don't know if this one serves soup, in in terms of dollars spent on charity, it probably covers about a Midwestern state worth of church charity.

And atheists don't waste a bunch of our charitable donations on trying to get people to believe in fairy tales.


upload.wikimedia.org

Dammit I need to never skip the preview when using graphics.
 
2013-05-25 08:11:57 AM

The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".


When stamp collectors are the majority, and use their stamp collecting to control the political process to exclude non-stamp collectors, exclude people socially for not being stamp collectors, and publicly make statements regularly that whenever bad things happen randomly to non-stamp collectors that they deserved to be harmed due to their non-stamp collecting then you would have a valid analogy.
 
2013-05-25 08:12:46 AM

Evilhippie: The Billdozer:
To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

Though your initial statement was indeed dumb; most blanket statements tend to be. I agree your following attempt to explain your bigoted opinion is even dumber. I'm not even going to waste time explaining why, since you can just read up on the last couple of post.


As long as you can feel superior to someone, the time you wasted writing that out was well worth it!
 
2013-05-25 08:12:48 AM

DrewFL: Such a passive aggressive and elitist thing to do...Because Stanhope had media and a figurehead he made a bullshiat point for no ones benefit but his own (im sure the "randomly atheist" winner was vetted and their home inspected for F5 code. Just shiatty. it's the belt buckle of the USA. People are religious there. It was an exceedingly mean and shiatty thing to do.


Why is it "mean and shiatty" to raise money for someone whose house has been blown down in a tornado?? If that is mean and shiatty, I wish everyone in the world was so "mean and shiatty".
 
2013-05-25 08:13:59 AM

letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion


I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable.  Is that a religion?
 
2013-05-25 08:14:04 AM

Lor M. Ipsum: Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.


This. Should've started a general find for everyone in her name.
 
2013-05-25 08:15:41 AM

liam76: LasersHurt: liam76: I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.

An, in a general sense, neither do atheists. Let's all remember that this one campaign /= the sum total of atheist giving.

I am highlighting the problem with "this one campaign".

He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".


Why the fark are you so concerned about it?? If you ARE so concerned, why the fark don't YOU start a charity "Atheists for Tornado Relief"???
 
2013-05-25 08:16:28 AM

Abox: letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion

I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable.  Is that a religion?


You have faith that the universe is and remains causal and predictable.
 
2013-05-25 08:25:34 AM
I doubt that was a plant but the way Wolf ended the interview with that question sure seems like he knew her response. After all this is CNN.

Someone on here praised her for coming out of the closet, How do you know she was in the closet? She appeared rather cool about it and about others having their beliefs judging by her last statement.

If Stanhope and others be they Atheist or those of any faith wish to set up means to help anyone or group in OK that is awesome.

This is America and during these events is when we are at our best.
 
2013-05-25 08:27:55 AM
Wolf Blitzer:  "You gotta blame the Lord, right?  Do you blame the Lord for all the terrible death and devastation that is right there behind us, for all the world to see?"

Vitsmum:  "Well, I'm...I'm an atheist.  So, no."

www.wnd.com
 
2013-05-25 08:29:12 AM
Anyone found better reactions to her than "The Blaze"? The number of livid posts there in response was fantastic.
 
2013-05-25 08:29:14 AM
The Billdozer:

As long as you can feel superior to someone, the time you wasted writing that out was well worth it!

Putting that out after condemning a whole group of people, is beyond funny, it's inadvertently ironic in a way I suppose says infinitely more about your way of thinking than anything I could posit. Thanks for that.
 
2013-05-25 08:29:38 AM
 
2013-05-25 08:31:15 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Abox: letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion

I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable.  Is that a religion?

You have faith that the universe is and remains causal and predictable.


Well no, if data in that regard were to change then my expectations would change.  You know....falsifiable.
 
2013-05-25 08:32:53 AM

Abox: Lenny_da_Hog: Abox: letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion

I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable.  Is that a religion?

You have faith that the universe is and remains causal and predictable.

Well no, if data in that regard were to change then my expectations would change.  You know....falsifiable.


If the universe weren't predictable and causal, data wouldn't be a viable tool to make decisions.
 
2013-05-25 08:34:40 AM
Sigh. A lot of broad generalizations in thread.

My wife and I are part of that crazy little group who consider ourselves "liberal Christians." We both grew up in KS in the United Methodist Church. And we've both been to church nearly every single Sunday (although not as much since we relocated for my job). And nothing grinds our gears more than getting roped in with the fanatical, bible-beating, ignorant types. Just because they make more noise does not make them representative of an entire religion.

I've done a lot of mission work, including rebuilding houses destroyed by Katrina, and tornado relief in Tennessee. And I'm not asking for a pat on the back right now. I'm telling you this that I did all that work with NO expectation of praise, reward, or anything else. I did it knowing that I was helping someone out. I wasn't evangelizing to those homeowners, or trying to convert them to my way of thinking. Just helping them because they needed it. Is it that hard to believe that there are other Christians like me out there?

Help is help.  Does it matter where it comes from as long as everyone's getting it who needs it?
 
2013-05-25 08:37:44 AM
For the record...  Atheists are not a formed group of people rallying against religion.  That's why I don't refer to myself included as "we" in a group of atheists, because I'm not.  I never joined a club.  I never signed any papers.  I just don't believe there is a god.  So I'm an atheist by definition.  Nothing more.

So whereas I agree with what this woman said to Wolf, I don't agree with Stanhope trying to rally all the "anti religious" people together under the banner of "See, us atheists can help too!!"
 
2013-05-25 08:38:35 AM
I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.
 
2013-05-25 08:40:27 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: Abox: Lenny_da_Hog: Abox: letrole: Atheism is indeed a Religion

I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable.  Is that a religion?

You have faith that the universe is and remains causal and predictable.

Well no, if data in that regard were to change then my expectations would change.  You know....falsifiable.

If the universe weren't predictable and causal, data wouldn't be a viable tool to make decisions.



So I expect consistency where I observe consistency.  Is that a religion?
 
2013-05-25 08:43:36 AM

stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.


3.bp.blogspot.com
What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Are you on the search for the Loch Ness Monster?  Do you treat your illnesses solely with pyramid power?  Are you scared you'll end up falling into space when you're on an airplane?  If not, why don't you have the courage to juggle hypotheses and have an open mind?
 
2013-05-25 08:45:15 AM

cameroncrazy1984: stonelotus: for all you twits know she could be a shiatty mother, a meth head, and generally all around bad person.  she probably isn't but she could be and none of you would know the difference or even care.

I love stanhope (I've got 7 of his albums on my phone) but ffs he's like a broken record with the militant atheism.  he could also stand to distance himself a bit from Alex Jones (see the Austin incident).

So we shouldn't help her because of that? I'm not picking up what you're putting down here. We should only help "good" people?


I hear Jennifer Petkov has been down on her luck.  Wanna help her out?
 
2013-05-25 08:47:43 AM

stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.


Agnostic Atheism is a thing, you know.

So is Gnostic Atheism.
 
2013-05-25 08:48:50 AM

stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.


I think you'll find that most atheists define themselves as not being able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but rather say that the evidence presented makes it highly improbably they exist. In fact much like most religious feel about just about any other god than the one(s) they happen to believe in.
I think in that way many atheists actually have been on a long journey down the path you describe as "I don't know, but let's find out". In fact studies show that atheists as a group generally know more about religion and the religious scriptures than those who define themselves as religious. I think this is directly linked to a more inquisitive nature among most atheists compared to most religious.
 
2013-05-25 08:48:53 AM
www.global-air.com

French philosopher Blaise Pascal reasoned that even though God may not exist, you should wager that he does, because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. (new window)
 
2013-05-25 08:51:21 AM
This thread has made my popcorn taste nasty.
 
2013-05-25 08:52:20 AM

Nabb1: Dinki: Nabb1: So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up. That's nice.

Straw man? I can't begin to count the thousands of times I've been told about 'Christian charity' as if there were no other kind. The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.

Of course. I am sure it is as you say.


It wouldn't even have come up if ol' Wolf hadn't made the HUGE assumption she was christian. Wolf is the dick in this story, he had no reason as a journalist to mention any diety.
 
2013-05-25 08:52:22 AM

hardinparamedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Deep Throat is a porno.


Soylent Green is People
 
2013-05-25 08:52:47 AM
Religionists despise atheists because just being an atheist means you think religionists are stupid or crazy.
 
2013-05-25 08:53:58 AM

Tallman: hardinparamedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Deep Throat is a porno.

Soylent Green is People


War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Ignorance is Strength.
 
2013-05-25 08:55:53 AM
Benevolent Misanthrope:

I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion.  In the Christian example - the one we often see cited - their god is thanked for all good, through his omnipotence (and by the way - he must be really relieved he no longer has to worry about fixing games for that Tebow dude)... but they never seem to hold their god accountable for the bad stuff that, if he's all-powerful, he either created or allowed.  Why? Because God is all good.  So, it's a model of ingrained circular reasoning, and something that is, indeed, drilled into believers by many means.  That's just one.bub


I'm not sure if anyone's touched on this yet, but I'd like to touch on the boldiness.  You say "they" as if ALL believers do that.  You'll find that the majority of us (at least the ones I know, and I'm in TEXAS. Grew up in a VERY religious town and didn't believe growing up) understand that bad and good things have to happen.  We can't put God into a box and say "these are His behaviors and this is how He should act in each scenario" because God is not finite.  His ways are incomprehensible to me, and I've stopped trying to ... I guess... figure out what will happen based on certain factors.  Sure, I make educated decisions based on my surroundings, but I know that there will always be something I didn't think of that could happen at any time to steer me back to whatever path was written out for me.

I don't help people because I feel I'm supposed to or I'll go to Hell.  I do it because I feel  a pull within to do it. Like I'm supposed to be doing it, even if it's dumb and it sucks sometimes.  That's how all of the people of faith I know live as well.

I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)
 
2013-05-25 08:58:12 AM

lesliessexxy: Benevolent Misanthrope:

I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion.  In the Christian example - the one we often see cited - their god is thanked for all good, through his omnipotence (and by the way - he must be really relieved he no longer has to worry about fixing games for that Tebow dude)... but they never seem to hold their god accountable for the bad stuff that, if he's all-powerful, he either created or allowed.  Why? Because God is all good.  So, it's a model of ingrained circular reasoning, and something that is, indeed, drilled into believers by many means.  That's just one.bub


I'm not sure if anyone's touched on this yet, but I'd like to touch on the boldiness.  You say "they" as if ALL believers do that.  You'll find that the majority of us (at least the ones I know, and I'm in TEXAS. Grew up in a VERY religious town and didn't believe growing up) understand that bad and good things have to happen.  We can't put God into a box and say "these are His behaviors and this is how He should act in each scenario" because God is not finite.  His ways are incomprehensible to me, and I've stopped trying to ... I guess... figure out what will happen based on certain factors.  Sure, I make educated decisions based on my surroundings, but I know that there will always be something I didn't think of that could happen at any time to steer me back to whatever path was written out for me.

I don't help people because I feel I'm supposed to or I'll go to Hell.  I do it because I feel  a pull within to do it. Like I'm supposed to be doing it, even if it's dumb and it sucks sometimes.  That's how all of the people of faith I know live as well.

I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)


www.religiouscriticism.com
 
2013-05-25 08:58:54 AM

gimmegimme: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 350x285]
What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Are you on the search for the Loch Ness Monster?  Do you treat your illnesses solely with pyramid power?  Are you scared you'll end up falling into space when you're on an airplane?  If not, why don't you have the courage to juggle hypotheses and have an open mind?


By being dismissive of everything without absolute proof, your world becomes narrow and only constituted of certainty, and you close yourself to the cloud of possibilities.
 
2013-05-25 09:01:00 AM
Just watched the interview and the Glenn Beck take on it.

1) Blitzer is an ass for asking that question. It was weird, unnecessary and highly inappropriate.

2) That woman seemed scared to answer. She hesitated and then after she said it her laugh was very nervous. Then she made a point of saying she had no problem with others praying to god... again a sign that she was scared of repercussions. The fact we live in a society where people are afraid to openly admit they don't believe in god is disgusting.

3) Glenn Beck made an interesting point about how maybe a producer find out in a pre interview that she was an atheist and got Wolf to ask her to push the "atheist agenda". However it seems far more likely that Blitzer saw that she was an atheist and being the ass he is decided to put her on the spot and get her to say she prayed to god or out herself. In which case he is an even bigger ass than I thought.
4) I love Doug Stanhope but he is an ENORMOUS ass and I'm not sure even I would want to be affiliated with him in any real world way. Frankly I'm surprised that guy hasn't gotten shot for some of the stuff he says. I wonder how the young mother feels about his act and now having the world linking her to him.
 
2013-05-25 09:01:53 AM

stryed: gimmegimme: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 350x285]
What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Are you on the search for the Loch Ness Monster?  Do you treat your illnesses solely with pyramid power?  Are you scared you'll end up falling into space when you're on an airplane?  If not, why don't you have the courage to juggle hypotheses and have an open mind?

By being dismissive of everything without absolute proof, your world becomes narrow and only constituted of certainty, and you close yourself to the cloud of possibilities.


There's your mistake.  I don't dismiss "everything."  I dismiss "everything for which there is no evidence or no compelling argument."

Can I borrow one of the unicorn horns in your collection?  I need to make a love potion.
 
2013-05-25 09:03:37 AM

gimmegimme: Tallman: hardinparamedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Deep Throat is a porno.

Soylent Green is People

War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Ignorance is Strength.


I'll take it one step further.

Red is the badge of courage.
 
2013-05-25 09:07:37 AM

planes: [www.global-air.com image 150x195]

French philosopher Blaise Pascal reasoned that even though God may not exist, you should wager that he does, because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. (new window)


Look, this is a stupid argument, because for one, it assumes that there's only one god.
 
2013-05-25 09:09:20 AM
ghare:

Look, this is a stupid argument, because for one, it assumes that there's only one god.

And that this god is gullible and can't see through insincere worship.
 
2013-05-25 09:09:45 AM

hardinparamedic: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

Agnostic Atheism is a thing, you know.

So is Gnostic Atheism.


I can just imagine futurist wars between the two!
"People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose'. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking."
-George Carlin
 
2013-05-25 09:10:49 AM

stryed: I can just imagine futurist wars between the two!


That's the thing about a philosophical belief that doesn't promise an eternal reward and afterlife to people who kill the non-believers for the cause. You tend to value the life of your fellow man a hell of a lot more.
 
2013-05-25 09:11:38 AM
Thank god someone is doing something to help.
 
2013-05-25 09:12:50 AM

here to help: Just watched the interview and the Glenn Beck take on it.

1) Blitzer is an ass for asking that question. It was weird, unnecessary and highly inappropriate.

2) That woman seemed scared to answer. She hesitated and then after she said it her laugh was very nervous. Then she made a point of saying she had no problem with others praying to god... again a sign that she was scared of repercussions. The fact we live in a society where people are afraid to openly admit they don't believe in god is disgusting.

3) Glenn Beck made an interesting point about how maybe a producer find out in a pre interview that she was an atheist and got Wolf to ask her to push the "atheist agenda". However it seems far more likely that Blitzer saw that she was an atheist and being the ass he is decided to put her on the spot and get her to say she prayed to god or out herself. In which case he is an even bigger ass than I thought.
4) I love Doug Stanhope but he is an ENORMOUS ass and I'm not sure even I would want to be affiliated with him in any real world way. Frankly I'm surprised that guy hasn't gotten shot for some of the stuff he says. I wonder how the young mother feels about his act and now having the world linking her to him.


#1 Agreed. If he was working for a Christian new org the question would make sense but for mainstream totally out of the blue.
#2 She didn't strike me as being nervous about answering. I thought she was more like why did you ask that question. If she was over 40 I might agree she would be nervous/scared to answer but her generations doesn't feel there will be any repercussions.
#3 No clue what Glenn Beck said about it but agree with you on Wolf.
#4 Not a fan of Stanhope.

I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.
 
2013-05-25 09:14:59 AM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Religion is an Atheism
 
2013-05-25 09:15:48 AM

Waldo Pepper: here to help: Just watched the interview and the Glenn Beck take on it.

1) Blitzer is an ass for asking that question. It was weird, unnecessary and highly inappropriate.

2) That woman seemed scared to answer. She hesitated and then after she said it her laugh was very nervous. Then she made a point of saying she had no problem with others praying to god... again a sign that she was scared of repercussions. The fact we live in a society where people are afraid to openly admit they don't believe in god is disgusting.

3) Glenn Beck made an interesting point about how maybe a producer find out in a pre interview that she was an atheist and got Wolf to ask her to push the "atheist agenda". However it seems far more likely that Blitzer saw that she was an atheist and being the ass he is decided to put her on the spot and get her to say she prayed to god or out herself. In which case he is an even bigger ass than I thought.
4) I love Doug Stanhope but he is an ENORMOUS ass and I'm not sure even I would want to be affiliated with him in any real world way. Frankly I'm surprised that guy hasn't gotten shot for some of the stuff he says. I wonder how the young mother feels about his act and now having the world linking her to him.

#1 Agreed. If he was working for a Christian new org the question would make sense but for mainstream totally out of the blue.
#2 She didn't strike me as being nervous about answering. I thought she was more like why did you ask that question. If she was over 40 I might agree she would be nervous/scared to answer but her generations doesn't feel there will be any repercussions.
#3 No clue what Glenn Beck said about it but agree with you on Wolf.
#4 Not a fan of Stanhope.

I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.


Don't twist things around!  Atheists are the ones who are militant and LOVE to proselytize.  NOT Protestant Christians.
 
2013-05-25 09:18:18 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


I give no apologies.
You can go to hell.
 
2013-05-25 09:18:28 AM

LasersHurt: The Billdozer: Its important because you want it to be. I'll give you a life tip: Although discrimination of all types exists, more and more people are fine tuning it to discriminate against one type... Assholes. Blitzer was an asshole for leading the interview this way and asking a loaded question, the lady was an asshole for having to have her 15 seconds of internet neckbeard fame for proclaiming her non-faith which had jack shiat to do with the situation, and Stanhope is an asshole because he's using this opportunity to further his own shiatty agenda and career.

So you are simply ignorant and dismissive.


You must be new here, LasersHurt. Welcome to Fark! Yes indeed, the persona of "The Billdozer" is quite ignorant and dismissive about many things, this being just one of a litany of examples! But he can be so much fun to read and wonder "Just how much of this stuff does his creator actually believe, how much has he come to believe, and how many times is he sitting at a keyboard googling "Crazy Things People Say", copying and pasting then changing enough words to not be a direct plagiarism of someone else?"

And, of course, in the end it doesn't matter what the answer is because it can be so much fun to pinch the persona's cheeks and troll with "Who's a cute little troll? Who's a cute little troll! You are! You are!"
 
2013-05-25 09:19:08 AM
Waldo Pepper:I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.
 As an Atheist living in the South, I can tell you that when I was growing up, I went to church just to keep up appearances out of fear of being attacked by people for being a heathen.
And I can also tell you that in a great many protestant churches, starting in youth groups, people are taught that others are Atheists because they hate God, and because they hate everything Christ stands for. Oh, and they have Satan at their right ear whispering to them./no lie. This is ACTUALLY what my Youth Group pastor preached about.
 
2013-05-25 09:19:11 AM

planes: French philosopher Blaise Pascal reasoned that even though God may not exist, you should wager that he does, because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. (new window)


Not only does this assume there's only one god (least you be at risk of believing in the WRONG god) but it assumes that the god you've chosen to worship is too stupid to not realize you're only believing as a hedge bet and won't flag you for it.
=Smidge=
 
2013-05-25 09:21:11 AM

hardinparamedic: gimmegimme: Tallman: hardinparamedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Deep Throat is a porno.

Soylent Green is People

War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Ignorance is Strength.

I'll take it one step further.

Red is the badge of courage.


OZ is over the rainbow

Midian is where the monsters live.
 
2013-05-25 09:23:12 AM
I prefer to term myself agnostic.  I haven't closed my mind to the idea that there might be a "God", I just don't see any proof of it.  But it's impossible to know for certain that something does NOT exist.
I do think there is probably a lot more "inter-connectedness" of all things in the universe than we realize, or can probably even comprehend.
But the stories written down in books like the Bible or the Koran are just words written by humans.

But for those who do believe in God, I have an interesting hypothesis that I sometimes ask the Jehovah's Witnesses if they come to my door:

If there is a God, then there is also a Devil?
Many people have difficulty understanding how God could allow bad things to happen to good people.
It all makes a lot more sense to me that God and the Devil are the same entity.  Kind of like a massive schizophrenic personality that flips between the extremes of good and evil billions of times per second.
In the same manner as Batman and Bruce Wayne, has anybody actually ever seen God and the Devil in the same room at the same time?
 
2013-05-25 09:23:33 AM

ghare: Religionists despise atheists because just being an atheist means you think religionists are stupid or crazy.


Um.  A lot of atheists are extremely religious so you're including yourself in that group by association.  The way you are actively proselytizing is further evidence.  You should join up here:

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

/For the record, I'm a non-theist but I believe that if something isn't hurting anyone then why hate it?
//Not talking government and religion, different topic, I'm talking your every day human on the street
///My religion is peace
 
2013-05-25 09:23:47 AM

fat boy: hardinparamedic: gimmegimme: Tallman: hardinparamedic: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Deep Throat is a porno.

Soylent Green is People

War is Peace.  Freedom is Slavery.  Ignorance is Strength.

I'll take it one step further.

Red is the badge of courage.

OZ is over the rainbow

Midian is where the monsters live.


The Tempest Keep was Merely a setback!
 
2013-05-25 09:24:38 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion.


As do you. Because you're proselytizing as bad as any Christian I've ever seen.
 
2013-05-25 09:25:44 AM
Waldo Pepper:

I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.

Atheists in small southern towns face a ton of discrimination or downright hostility.  I will bet a lot of money that she winds up getting threatened over this.
 
2013-05-25 09:28:28 AM

Evilhippie: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

I think you'll find that most atheists define themselves as not being able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but rather say that the evidence presented makes it highly improbably they exist. In fact much like most religious feel about just about any other god than the one(s) they happen to believe in.
I think in that way many atheists actually have been on a long journey down the path you describe as "I don't know, but let's find out". In fact studies show that atheists as a group generally know more about religion and the religious scriptures than those who define themselves as religious. I think this is directly linked to a more inquisitive nature among most atheists compared to most religious.


I think you're right... except in the same way that most Christians are pretty much "Do unto others" sorts of Christians. Which most people quite like, because they're quite willing to say "You're an atheist? Could you watch my kids on Sunday night while my husband and I are at a church function? We'll watch yours on Tuesday night in return?". Most atheists are quite willing to say that they can't disprove the existence of the supernatural and leave it at that.

The atheists that we generally hear from in the media are the atheists who say "There Is No God! You're Stupid For Believing In God!" just like we generally hear the Christians who say "Did you just say "Happy Holidays"? STOP OPPRESSING ME!". Nice, polite, well reasoned and reasonable people just don't make the 24hr news cycle, sort of like how only the most flamboyant of the posters here get things heated. The ones who are reasonable and polite we just read, nod in agreement, maybe press "Smart", and go on. It's the ones we think of as idiots that we reply to.

/prefers to call himself Agnostic.
 
2013-05-25 09:28:41 AM
I'm an atheist. My entire family is very strict Catholic. Most of my friends were made while attending catholic schools growing up, and who lived in my suburban town that was mostly Catholic. The reactions to me saying I am an atheist (which I have no problem discussing openly, but not unprompted) is split, almost evenly, between scorn,contempt, and pity ("You have no idea what you're talking about, but god loves you anyway") and acceptance, though curious. The latter parties at least allow the conversation on the topic to progress naturally without any defense or critique either way.

The frustrating part comes when the first group brings the question around to morality. It inevitably happens when someone gets comfortable discussing religion with a non-believer. "How can you know you are being a good person without a template to compare your life to?" Variations of this question have been posed to me only a handful of times, but each time I have grown exponentially more frustrated with the person asking. I've stopped trying to answer to it, and have become increasingly more prone to responses asking why they need the promise of reward and threat of punishment (heaven and hell) in order to do the right thing.

Anyhow, I think donating to someone who is an atheist simply because they are an atheist is divisive. It doesn't sit well. The "us vs. them" mentality that some atheists live by (also encouraged by the bible in passages about judgement day and the like) is nonsense. But I understand the atheists' (my own) frustration  that ultimately comes at the end of the argument. The occasional antagonistic religious person says something along the lines of, "Well, I guess we'll see who is right at the end of it all, won't we?"  This line reminds me that I will never be able to gloat. Being an atheist affords you no winner's circle. There's no venue in which to say "I told you so." But they usually smile smugly upon saying this and imagine themselves sitting at the right hand of god, up in the clouds, with rays of sunshine, angels with harps, etc, while I toil beneath them somewhere.

And that's when I punch them, or donate money to causes like this.
 
2013-05-25 09:28:57 AM

durbnpoisn: For the record...  Atheists are not a formed group of people rallying against religion.  That's why I don't refer to myself included as "we" in a group of atheists, because I'm not.  I never joined a club.  I never signed any papers.  I just don't believe there is a god.  So I'm an atheist by definition.  Nothing more.

So whereas I agree with what this woman said to Wolf, I don't agree with Stanhope trying to rally all the "anti religious" people together under the banner of "See, us atheists can help too!!"


I respect your view.  I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort. Those who want power and money will find a way of taking a "non belief" and perverting it for their own benefit.

I'm a Christian and there is nothing pure about Big business religion.  Religion is created by man. Christianity should always be Christ focused and the mission is about leading people to God through Christ and not about "hey look at us Christians doing good or living well."

Keith Green sums up a lot of so called Christians pretty well in his song 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix8ddosjg-k
 
2013-05-25 09:30:10 AM

Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.


There's no way to do it.
 
2013-05-25 09:30:27 AM

willfullyobscure: Religion is an Atheism



I think that's accurate.  If your God is unfalsifiable, then in practical terms your experience is no different than the atheist's.  You will never be able to identify your God because there are no attributes that would distinguish it from any other entity.  You may see a large powerful being snapping his fingers and creating planets but how would you know the being is God?  It could just be a very powerful creature you hadn't thought of. Your God could just as easily be a rock on the side of a stream biding his time.
 
2013-05-25 09:31:07 AM

Waldo Pepper: I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.


I really hope not but I live in a FAR more liberal area than OK and I just keep my mouth shut about religion/politics. Hell, I'm not even a full fledged atheist and although I don't think Jebus was the son of god (in the magical/mystical sense) I still think it's quite possible, even probable he or someone like him at the time existed and that he was a pretty damned awesome guy. The thing is some people are unreasonable and even if there is only a small percentage of them all it takes is one unreasonable person to ruin your life if they decide to. The fact they are raising money for her is nice but personally I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair trade off for this kind of national exposure. Then again I'm not dumb enough to talk to reporters. Seriously why do people give those leeches the time of day? They very rarely have good intentions and once the spin machine kicks up bad bad things can happen. Not worth it just to get my ugly mug "on 'da tayvay".
 
2013-05-25 09:31:19 AM

gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]


That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.
 
2013-05-25 09:31:52 AM
The real butthurt on here is that Stanhope accomplished in one day what you all couldn't in 60.

Whatever did happen with the Biden Trans Am money anyway?
 
2013-05-25 09:32:25 AM

Techhell: Evilhippie: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

I think you'll find that most atheists define themselves as not being able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but rather say that the evidence presented makes it highly improbably they exist. In fact much like most religious feel about just about any other god than the one(s) they happen to believe in.
I think in that way many atheists actually have been on a long journey down the path you describe as "I don't know, but let's find out". In fact studies show that atheists as a group generally know more about religion and the religious scriptures than those who define themselves as religious. I think this is directly linked to a more inquisitive nature among most atheists compared to most religious.

I think you're right... except in the same way that most Christians are pretty much "Do unto others" sorts of Christians. Which most people quite like, because they're quite willing to say "You're an atheist? Could you watch my kids on Sunday night while my husband and I are at a church function? We'll watch yours on Tuesday night in return?". Most atheists are quite willing to say that they can't disprove the existence of the supernatural and leave it at that.

The atheists that we generally hear from in the media are the atheists who say "There Is No God! You're Stupid For Believing In God!" just like we generally hear the Christians who say "Did you just say "Happy Holidays"? STOP OPPRESSING ME!". Nice, polite, well reasoned and reasonable people just don't make the 24hr news cycle, sort of like how only the most flamboyant of the posters here get things heated. The ones who are reasonable and polite we just read, nod in agreement, maybe press "Smart", and go on. It's the ones we think of as idiots that we reply to.

...


I don't think this is fair.  The argument that atheists are really making when you see them on the news is, "Look, people can believe whatever they like, but the Governor should not make a governmental decree that all citizens should pray for rain."    Check out the Freedom From Religion Foundation.  All they want is for the Establishment Clause to be respected and they get and report on a ton of unpleasantness from religious people.
 
2013-05-25 09:33:43 AM

YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.


Huh.  So what you're saying is that the world operates as it would if there were no god at all.
 
2013-05-25 09:34:18 AM

YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.


Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.
 
2013-05-25 09:35:57 AM

Via Infinito: Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.


Hey now... watch it with that thar commie talk or we'll send you to Gitmo.
 
2013-05-25 09:36:17 AM

Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.


Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.
 
2013-05-25 09:37:03 AM

gimmegimme: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Huh.  So what you're saying is that the world operates as it would if there were no god at all.


Since I'm atheist yes I would say that. Doesn't make the quote any less stupid.
 
2013-05-25 09:38:57 AM
YouAreIncorrect:

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving. it is bad fanfiction derived from earlier religions.
 
2013-05-25 09:40:22 AM
Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

LasersHurt: There's no way to do it.

If this thread reaches critical mass, an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.

If only more Christians had faith as great as these.
 
2013-05-25 09:42:28 AM

letrole: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

LasersHurt: There's no way to do it.

If this thread reaches critical mass, an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.

If only more Christians had faith as great as these.


Thanks for playing, letrole, you're always a real hoot.
 
2013-05-25 09:42:31 AM
YouAreIncorrect:

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.
Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.
 
2013-05-25 09:42:31 AM

YouAreIncorrect: Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.


So you're contradicting... yourself?
 
2013-05-25 09:44:02 AM

lesliessexxy: Benevolent Misanthrope:

I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion.  In the Christian example - the one we often see cited - their god is thanked for all good, through his omnipotence (and by the way - he must be really relieved he no longer has to worry about fixing games for that Tebow dude)... but they never seem to hold their god accountable for the bad stuff that, if he's all-powerful, he either created or allowed.  Why? Because God is all good.  So, it's a model of ingrained circular reasoning, and something that is, indeed, drilled into believers by many means.  That's just one.bub


I'm not sure if anyone's touched on this yet, but I'd like to touch on the boldiness.  You say "they" as if ALL believers do that.  You'll find that the majority of us (at least the ones I know, and I'm in TEXAS. Grew up in a VERY religious town and didn't believe growing up) understand that bad and good things have to happen.  We can't put God into a box and say "these are His behaviors and this is how He should act in each scenario" because God is not finite.  His ways are incomprehensible to me, and I've stopped trying to ... I guess... figure out what will happen based on certain factors.  Sure, I make educated decisions based on my surroundings, but I know that there will always be something I didn't think of that could happen at any time to steer me back to whatever path was written out for me.

I don't help people because I feel I'm supposed to or I'll go to Hell.  I do it because I feel  a pull within to do it. Like I'm supposed to be doing it, even if it's dumb and it sucks sometimes.  That's how all of the people of faith I know live as well.

I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)


I know the argument. God works in mysterious ways. So, if you aren't going to hold him accountable for bad stuff (you did this), why do you thank him for good stuff (you gave me this)? My point ( and it's early for me too) is, that pull you feel within is not a god. It's humanity. And the belief that there is a god writing out your path and all the rest is harmful not because we disagree, but because it trains people not to take responsibility on a deep level (god has a plan for me, what me worry) and keeps people trapped in that world of mythology. Which many of us have left, and are really tired of being dragged back into.

Look at it this way - unless you worship Zeus, Freya, Anansi, Ganesh, and all the rest, then you're an atheist, too. I just believe in one fewer god than you.
 
2013-05-25 09:45:55 AM

Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.

So you're contradicting... yourself?


Perhaps you could point out the contradiction. Malevolent is defined as "Having or showing a wish to do evil to others." Are you saying that being not all-loving means you wish evil on others?
 
2013-05-25 09:46:36 AM
Considering how many time the Rapture and end times have come already, it's amazing how many of you are still here.

An alternative view: the Rapture has come and gone as predicted by various people. There's a reason many of you Christians are  still here.
 
2013-05-25 09:46:50 AM
LasersHurt: Thanks for playing, letrole, you're always a real hoot.

And you're not.
 
2013-05-25 09:47:12 AM
And is Blitzer ill or something? He's looking very thin.
 
2013-05-25 09:47:47 AM
I'm a Christian, and I think it's completely rude to make assumptions about the religious beliefs of other people. It's a hundred times as rude to do so on TV. This shouldn't be about pitting one belief vs. another. This should be about Wolf being a dick to someone who just narrowly escaped tragedy.
 
2013-05-25 09:47:53 AM

letrole: LasersHurt: Thanks for playing, letrole, you're always a real hoot.

And you're not.


Well if you're not even gonna be a good sport, where's the fun for anyone?
 
2013-05-25 09:48:27 AM

Evilhippie: YouAreIncorrect:

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.
Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.


Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?
 
2013-05-25 09:53:51 AM
Believe what you want... but you may be wrong
 
2013-05-25 09:55:12 AM

Techhell: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: Its important because you want it to be. I'll give you a life tip: Although discrimination of all types exists, more and more people are fine tuning it to discriminate against one type... Assholes. Blitzer was an asshole for leading the interview this way and asking a loaded question, the lady was an asshole for having to have her 15 seconds of internet neckbeard fame for proclaiming her non-faith which had jack shiat to do with the situation, and Stanhope is an asshole because he's using this opportunity to further his own shiatty agenda and career.

So you are simply ignorant and dismissive.

You must be new here, LasersHurt. Welcome to Fark! Yes indeed, the persona of "The Billdozer" is quite ignorant and dismissive about many things, this being just one of a litany of examples! But he can be so much fun to read and wonder "Just how much of this stuff does his creator actually believe, how much has he come to believe, and how many times is he sitting at a keyboard googling "Crazy Things People Say", copying and pasting then changing enough words to not be a direct plagiarism of someone else?"

And, of course, in the end it doesn't matter what the answer is because it can be so much fun to pinch the persona's cheeks and troll with "Who's a cute little troll? Who's a cute little troll! You are! You are!"


I love you, too.
 
2013-05-25 09:56:32 AM

DoctorCal: I think it's quite possible that Wolf is patronizing her, and hoping for a highly emotional, affirmative response just for the entertainment value.

I mean, he's Jewish, so...thank the Lord, thank the Lord doesn't seem like it would be his sincere reaction.


?  Because Jews haven't heard of God?

If you watch the video, the first time he asks her she says "yuh."  After he presser her, "Do you thank the Lord?" she says, "Actually, I'm an atheist."  That's not attention whoring.  There is somebody downtown with a bullhorn right now berating people for not having the loud person's identical beliefs.  That's attention whoring.  I'm going to give her a donation just for getting Wolf to STFU with his assumptions about her.
There was also the "lost dog" woman, who when the interviewer asked "Are you able to comprehend yet what happened here?" and she said "I know exactly what happened here."
I have to admit that these two women gave me a lot more respect for the people of Oklahoma.  No tears and self-pity, just straightforward plain speaking.
 
2013-05-25 09:57:14 AM
 

YouAreIncorrect: Evilhippie: YouAreIncorrect:

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.
Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?


1 John 4:7-8Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.  Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I was raised protestant, and our preacher was very big on god being all-loving and all good. Of course during the ages Christians have bickered over who or what God is, as they still do. And there's definitely many examples of worship of a rather vengeful and capricious god, of which you could find many quotes in the bible to base of off.
But if you seriously are saying that Christian preachers do not preach of an all-loving, and benevolent god, I don't think we are from the same planet. Certainly you can pretty much find bible quotes to "support" the claim of a malignant god.
 
2013-05-25 09:58:11 AM
What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).
 
2013-05-25 09:59:10 AM

DoctorCal: Langston: I'm happy that the woman is being helped. I hope that everyone who suffered loss is as fortunate.

Hope isn't enough.


We're gonna need you to pray.


This is the greatest thing I've read in a while.
 
2013-05-25 09:59:39 AM
LasersHurt: Well if you're not even gonna be a good sport, where's the fun for anyone?

shh, just listen, here's your fun

that stoopid epicurus shiat has started y.e.t a.g.a.i.n

almost as lame as the bald-headed stamp collector rubbish that larval-stage atheists think is clever and profound
 
2013-05-25 10:01:43 AM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.


When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.
 
2013-05-25 10:07:52 AM

Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.


But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.
 
2013-05-25 10:08:41 AM

Evilhippie: YouAreIncorrect: Evilhippie: YouAreIncorrect:

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.
Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?

1 John 4:7-8Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.  Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I was raised protestant, and our preacher was very big on god being all-loving and all good. Of course during the ages Christians have bickered over who or what God is, as they still do. And there's definitely many examples of worship of a rather vengeful and capricious god, of which you could find many quotes in the bible to base of off.
But if you seriously are saying that Christian preachers do not preach of an all-loving, and benevolent god, I don't think we are from the same planet. Certainly you can pretty much find bible quotes to "support" the claim of a malignant god.


When I said who claims it I meant from the bible (or god) itself, not preachers, but fair enough with providing the quote. My take on that is actions speak louder than words, and god certainly isn't portrayed as all loving through actions.

I'm simply saying he would fit more in a father figure role, where sometimes you have to let bad crap happen even if you can prevent it.
 
2013-05-25 10:09:15 AM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.


Though that certainly doesn't mean that some individuals or groups won't attempt to do so.
 
2013-05-25 10:11:13 AM
YouAreIncorrect:

When I said who claims it I meant from the bible (or god) itself, not preachers, but fair enough with providing the quote. My take on that is actions speak louder than words, and god certainly isn't portrayed as all loving through actions.

I'm simply saying he would fit more in a father figure role, where sometimes you have to let bad crap happen even if you can prevent it.


That's certainly the only god that would fit with his/her creation.
 
2013-05-25 10:16:02 AM
It's a miracle!
 
2013-05-25 10:16:03 AM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.


Definitions of that word can change over time.
 
2013-05-25 10:21:40 AM
Atheists prove they are better than religious people by acting just like them.
 
2013-05-25 10:23:59 AM
A lot of douchebags in this thread. I"m sure you are not friends with many people because of your atheism. There's no way it can be because you're unpleasant assholes.  Nope. Its religion.
 
2013-05-25 10:26:06 AM
enjoy your stay in hell...
 
2013-05-25 10:27:42 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: The impact of getting Rebecca and her family properly housed by the atheist community will do far more good than sitting in bars or chat rooms mocking people of faith. Like religion, free-thinking will be more easily spread through compassion and decency.

Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.


If you are depending on atheist compassion and deceny to spread atheisim.... the future of religion is very bright indeed. Atheists are not self aware enough to realize that their arrogant self important pathological behavior is a bigger turn off to the merely non-religious than to theists.

Seriously.... if Doug Stanhope is your moral and ethical ideal... you got bigger problems.
 
2013-05-25 10:33:01 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more


Seriously, that's some prejudice against middle Americans right there. I'm guessing most of the people who are saying this are from the Coastal areas (minus the South). I swear, they think that middle Americans go around all day barefoot in overalls, looking for people to lynch in the name of God.

(You want to see how Coastal Americans are so wrapped up in their world view, Middle Americans? Tell them one simple thing. Tell them that you've never seen the ocean and watch their minds be blown. Their reaction will be, "What? You've never seen the ocean. How can you've never seen the ocean?!" It will never occur to them that, of course, you've seen the ocean since you live in a landlocked state.)
 
2013-05-25 10:36:03 AM

Hoban Washburne: Nabb1: Of course. I am sure it is as you say.

I've heard things like this as well as "People would have no morality if it wasn't for religion" arguments from religious people way more times than I can count.  I have a very tolerant non fundamentalist Christian friend ask me once how I would instil morals in my children without religion.  She wasn't trying to be mean about it, just asking because we were talking about religion/atheism.  She's one of the nice ones.



Dude, chill.  Christian's tend to use the Bible as a study book on how to behave; whether or not you personally agree with the behavioral formula or it's practice is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure she was simply asking what framework you will use.  Jumping to the conclusion that your "non fundamentalist friend" is incapable of seeing any future for your children other than base amorality without religion clearly shows that she may not be the one who needs tolerance.
 
2013-05-25 10:38:48 AM

Nabb1: Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.

Wow.  Okay...

I'll just bow out here.  You're not making sense and it's obvious you're upset.

I will say this:  I don't disdain humanity.  I disdain people who take advantage of other people and who indoctrinate them to be taken advantage of.  And I disdain people who refuse to think.

On second thought, with that last one, perhaps I do disdain most humans.  Hmm.

Sure, people who don't see the world the way you do just refuse to think. No, you're not prejudiced at all.


And this is why I have him tagged as terrified white man. Never saw a person see more frightening bigotry against whites, christians and men... almost like he lives in a slightly different existence than the real one.
 
2013-05-25 10:42:01 AM
Doug Stanhope?  I have heard of that unfunny piece of crap since The Man Show went off the air.  Way to make a political statement out of a tragedy Mr. Stanhope and every other neckbeard atheist mouthbreather cheering this on.
 
2013-05-25 10:43:30 AM

Abox: willfullyobscure: Religion is an Atheism


I think that's accurate.  If your God is unfalsifiable, then in practical terms your experience is no different than the atheist's.  You will never be able to identify your God because there are no attributes that would distinguish it from any other entity.  You may see a large powerful being snapping his fingers and creating planets but how would you know the being is God?  It could just be a very powerful creature you hadn't thought of. Your God could just as easily be a rock on the side of a stream biding his time.


It's more that if you use religious rules to dictate yoir actions, that's not a real spiritual communion with God, and therefore atheistic. The only way to really connect with the divine is through personal reflection and experience, often called spirituality. That's why I call overtly religious people out as atheists.
 
2013-05-25 10:43:40 AM

part of the problem: If you are depending on atheist compassion and deceny to spread atheisim.... the future of religion is very bright indeed. Atheists are not self aware enough to realize that their arrogant self important pathological behavior is a bigger turn off to the merely non-religious than to theists.


That projection is so massive, I had to be sure I was laying in bed and not at the local Drive-In.

Remind me of Jesus' admonishment of the Pharisees again?
 
2013-05-25 10:43:47 AM
I think the bigger issue here is that Wolf Blitzer assumes everyone is Oklahoma is a bible thumping moron that he can goad into a paroxysms of religious fervor by asking them if they thank the lerd for not being dead today, so he can get it on camera.

Okies should tell Blitzer to suck a bag of dicks every time he shows up on what's left of their porch.
 
2013-05-25 10:46:06 AM

Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.

Definitions of that word can change over time.


It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?
 
2013-05-25 10:49:17 AM
So I'm guessing the ones whining about donations to this lady "because" she's atheist don't whine about people being persecuted for their Christian beliefs in Muslim countries simply "because" they're Christian?
 
2013-05-25 10:55:41 AM

Waldo Pepper: Definitions of that word can change over time.


You probably think "Agnostic" means "I haven't made up my mind."

Just because someone uses a word incorrectly doesn't mean language is "evolving." It means they don't know what the word means and they're using it incorrectly. Nothing more.
 
Ant
2013-05-25 10:58:23 AM

John Buck 41: [static.jokes-db.com image 294x400]

Atheists are so cute


Yep. That's right. "We exist" is absolutely the same thing as "Hey! Look at me!!!"
 
2013-05-25 10:58:56 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


agree...but it isn't her fault, so good that she is getting money.
from another article she said in the Wolf interview:   "I don't blame anyone for thanking the Lord."
okay (OK), that is a really gracious thing to say.  Nice that she shows respect for others instead of denigrating others.

/i wonder how many atheists believe in karma
 
Ant
2013-05-25 11:01:54 AM

log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.


I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.
 
2013-05-25 11:04:49 AM

Ant: log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.

I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.


Unfortunately, she didn't stop there.  The Atheism+ bullies are trying to turn a movement about resisting theocracy into yet another radical feminist echo chamber.
 
2013-05-25 11:07:38 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

agree...but it isn't her fault, so good that she is getting money.
from another article she said in the Wolf interview:   "I don't blame anyone for thanking the Lord."
okay (OK), that is a really gracious thing to say.  Nice that she shows respect for others instead of denigrating others.

/i wonder how many atheists believe in karma


Perhaps she's just afraid of a backlash from her Christian neighbors.  You see, Christians have been persecuting nonbelievers for nearly 2,000 years in the name of Jesus.
 
2013-05-25 11:08:51 AM
She's going to need those funds to emigrate out of OK, now that people know she's an atheist.  Some teabagger is going to exercise his 2nd Amendment solutions on her if she doesn't get out of town.
 
2013-05-25 11:08:59 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


I would say it's more "helping out someone who had the courage to say she was an atheist on national TV in a country where such proclamations are generally scorned by a bullying Christian majority."
 
2013-05-25 11:09:20 AM

sex0r: Doug Stanhope?  I have heard of that unfunny piece of crap since The Man Show went off the air.  Way to make a political statement out of a tragedy Mr. Stanhope and every other neckbeard atheist mouthbreather cheering this on.




Doug Stanhope reponds.
 
2013-05-25 11:10:50 AM

The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".


I miss this analogy so much. Just tickles me to see something people hold dear to their hearts-- some so much so that they dedicate their lives to it-- reduced to a... "hobby."
 
Ant
2013-05-25 11:11:07 AM

The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".


Imagine the vast majority of people in the world have a hobby of collecting stamps. Imagine that being a non-stamp collector in the wrong part of the country could get you disowned by your parents, ostracized by society, and in some other countries where they really take stamp collecting to extremes, even killed for your non-stamp collecting ways.

Get it now?
 
2013-05-25 11:12:42 AM

eggrolls: I think the bigger issue here is that Wolf Blitzer assumes everyone is Oklahoma is a bible thumping moron that he can goad into a paroxysms of religious fervor by asking them if they thank the lerd for not being dead today, so he can get it on camera.

Okies should tell Blitzer to suck a bag of dicks every time he shows up on what's left of their porch.


That was kinda my reaction. Who the hell asks about religion (unprompted, at least) when they're talking to a lady whose house just blew away?
 
2013-05-25 11:14:10 AM

rzrwiresunrise: The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

I miss this analogy so much. Just tickles me to see something people hold dear to their hearts-- some so much so that they dedicate their lives to it-- reduced to a... "hobby."


Well, that's what happens when you dedicate your life to something that isn't real.  It's one thing to enjoy the original Star Wars films; it's quite another to think you are a Jedi who can move things with your thoughts and that Chewbacca is going to hang out with you at some point.
 
2013-05-25 11:15:22 AM
Donated.
 
2013-05-25 11:16:20 AM

Cupajo: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

I would say it's more "helping out someone who had the courage to say she was an atheist on national TV in a country where such proclamations are generally scorned by a bullying Christian majority."


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-25 11:17:43 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma


A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.
 
2013-05-25 11:17:58 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: eggrolls: I think the bigger issue here is that Wolf Blitzer assumes everyone is Oklahoma is a bible thumping moron that he can goad into a paroxysms of religious fervor by asking them if they thank the lerd for not being dead today, so he can get it on camera.

Okies should tell Blitzer to suck a bag of dicks every time he shows up on what's left of their porch.

That was kinda my reaction. Who the hell asks about religion (unprompted, at least) when they're talking to a lady whose house just blew away?


Wolf should keep asking these questions until someone yells Allah Ackbar and hacks off his head.
Think of the ratings.
 
Ant
2013-05-25 11:18:02 AM

gimmegimme: Ant: log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.

I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.

Unfortunately, she didn't stop there.  The Atheism+ bullies are trying to turn a movement about resisting theocracy into yet another radical feminist echo chamber.


I just don't see it. I admit that sometimes my immediate knee-jerk reaction to some of their criticisms and complaints is "Oh, give me a farking break!", but usually when I've read their point of view on the subject, it makes sense why they might take offense to things that are said and done every day without thought.
 
2013-05-25 11:19:10 AM

fat boy: Wolf should keep asking these questions until someone yells Allah Ackbar and hacks off his head.
Think of the ratings.


Holy shiat, man. He's being a jerk, not eating babies.
 
2013-05-25 11:19:11 AM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


It's OK, the Christians are helping their own too.  They're sending prayers.
 
2013-05-25 11:20:21 AM

INeedAName: When will people realize that most of what takes place in the south isn't Christianity?


Civil War II.
 
2013-05-25 11:20:25 AM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Benevolent Misanthrope:
Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one.  "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought.  Seriously.

Religious people, just like atheists, come in all shapes and sizes, some of which have their heads up their asses.

Just as you probably wouldn't like people to think all atheists are bloviating anti-theists, it's probably not a good idea to
claim all religious people act or think the same way.


As a religious type person myself, I am happy to inform you those types seem to be restricted to the internet. I've only encountered one in the real world and he seemed to become even more crazy irate, in his odd religious extremist without the deity way, when he was informed that those of us in my religion don't DO those things he claims to hate. He didn't even know what it was, just that I was a moron and mentally ill because I didn't believe the same way he did. This attitude used to come from the "other side", but with cool shiat like demons and hellfire and other things that appeal to my metal head wench sensibilities.

I do not blame atheists for the behavior of a few anti-theists. I don't even put you guys in the same category. An extremist is an extremist is an extremist. The belief in a deity or the belief there is no deity is secondary, just as it should be.
 
2013-05-25 11:22:05 AM
We agnostics are like a dead cat in the left turn lane right now. We just keep getting run over and ignored.

Makes me want to find a bisexual woman and commisserate with her.
 
2013-05-25 11:22:12 AM

Dragonflew: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

It's OK, the Christians are helping their own too.  They're sending prayers.


Heh.
 
2013-05-25 11:23:17 AM

i upped my meds-up yours: We agnostics are like a dead cat in the left turn lane right now. We just keep getting run over and ignored.

Makes me want to find a bisexual woman and commisserate with her.


If internet porn has taught me anything, it's that bisexual women aren't ignored.
 
2013-05-25 11:23:40 AM

Ant: gimmegimme: Ant: log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.

I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.

Unfortunately, she didn't stop there.  The Atheism+ bullies are trying to turn a movement about resisting theocracy into yet another radical feminist echo chamber.

I just don't see it. I admit that sometimes my immediate knee-jerk reaction to some of their criticisms and complaints is "Oh, give me a farking break!", but usually when I've read their point of view on the subject, it makes sense why they might take offense to things that are said and done every day without thought.


Check out some of Thunderf00t's thoughts on the subject.  I don't know why the FTB don't just create their own radical feminist organization; that would be fine.  But it has nothing to do with skepticism or freethought.
 
2013-05-25 11:24:09 AM

Dragonflew: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

It's OK, the Christians are helping their own too.  They're sending prayers.


www.maniacworld.com
 
2013-05-25 11:24:36 AM

planes: [www.global-air.com image 150x195]

French philosopher Blaise Pascal reasoned that even though God may not exist, you should wager that he does, because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. (new window)


And Pascal's wager is flawed for several reasons:

Fallacy One: It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are thousands of gods that have been worshiped throughout time. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods.

Fallacy Two: It assumes that simply wagering on God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.

Fallacy Three: It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair color, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who don't believe.
 
Ant
2013-05-25 11:25:07 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.


I don't believe in Karma. Vile people get away with all sorts of evil shiat all the time. What goes around does not necessarily come around. You do not always reap what you sow. The sooner people stop believing in this Just World/Karma/The Secret crap, the sooner we can start actually improving the world we really do have.

/atheist, by the way
 
2013-05-25 11:25:25 AM
Churches help out their own. Atheists just did the same. Nobody needs to get butthurt about it.

/she deserved my $10 just for having to talk to Wolf Blitzer
//Wolf is pretty much Ron Burgundy at this point, right?
 
2013-05-25 11:27:46 AM

Ant: I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.

I don't believe in Karma. Vile people get away with all sorts of evil shiat all the time. What goes around does not necessarily come around. You do not always reap what you sow. The sooner people stop believing in this Just World/Karma/The Secret crap, the sooner we can start actually improving the world we really do have.

/atheist, by the way


Well, I want to point out that we do agree on all of this, friend.
 
2013-05-25 11:28:51 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: i upped my meds-up yours: We agnostics are like a dead cat in the left turn lane right now. We just keep getting run over and ignored.

Makes me want to find a bisexual woman and commisserate with her.

If internet porn has taught me anything, it's that bisexual women aren't ignored.


Three words for ya, I: Gender Studies Departments.
 
2013-05-25 11:30:13 AM

Ant: I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.

I don't believe in Karma. Vile people get away with all sorts of evil shiat all the time. What goes around does not necessarily come around. You do not always reap what you sow. The sooner people stop believing in this Just World/Karma/The Secret crap, the sooner we can start actually improving the world we really do have.

/atheist, by the way


You may well be right. I'm not going to voice an opinion on the subject and I'm not saying everyone believes what I said, just that some people do.

I guess I did sort of suggest what I must believe about it, but oh well.
 
2013-05-25 11:30:45 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: She's going to need those funds to emigrate out of OK, now that people know she's an atheist.  Some teabagger is going to exercise his 2nd Amendment solutions on her if she doesn't get out of town.


People don't like to have their comfortable dogma challenged.

"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed." - Bertrand Russell
 
2013-05-25 11:31:54 AM

i upped my meds-up yours: I May Be Crazy But...: i upped my meds-up yours: We agnostics are like a dead cat in the left turn lane right now. We just keep getting run over and ignored.

Makes me want to find a bisexual woman and commisserate with her.

If internet porn has taught me anything, it's that bisexual women aren't ignored.

Three words for ya, I: Gender Studies Departments.


And if you want to engage in hours and hours and hours of discussions about gender studies, and cis privilege and non-heteronormative safe spaces, you can get involved in the deceptively named Atheism Plus movement.
 
2013-05-25 11:32:56 AM

Repo Man: "There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed." - Bertrand Russell


The thinking is kind of like how midwestern men think about clothes. They'd have to have an innate good taste, and repress it, to dress that badly all the time.
 
2013-05-25 11:40:00 AM

i upped my meds-up yours: INeedAName: When will people realize that most of what takes place in the south isn't Christianity?

Civil War II.


You rang?
 
2013-05-25 11:51:05 AM

I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.


Okay, but they believe in some sort of magical power in the sky that balances things out.

same thing for people who believe in luck, or superstition, or wearing a lucky shirt, or wearing your team baseball cap at a 30 degree angle during a game.
 
2013-05-25 11:55:11 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.

Okay, but they believe in some sort of magical power in the sky that balances things out.

same thing for people who believe in luck, or superstition, or wearing a lucky shirt, or wearing your team baseball cap at a 30 degree angle during a game.


You're right; all magical thinking is stupid.  There is, however, a big difference between wearing a lucky ballcap to "help" your team and believing that your magical invisible friend in the sky told you to treat another human being like crap because they don't believe in that same deity.

Some people knock on wood in a futile effort to tilt metaphysics in their favor, others use their belief in Mr. Kolob to deprive fellow Americans of civil rights.
 
2013-05-25 11:57:47 AM
I'm an atheist and I never got why people have such strong reactions to the occasional thank god, you're blessed, or other such stuff.  It's just a social formula you mouth, like when you tell the taxi driver you'll never see again if your life to take care and have a nice day.  If someone preaches to me, I'll respond, but just smile, say thanks, and accept as the social nicety it was meant as.
 
2013-05-25 12:00:41 PM
So that was worth 75,000.00 of "in your face!"?  Seriously?  No other uses for that much cash in the aftermath of a tornado except "Oh, you go girl" to this one nice young lady?
 
2013-05-25 12:01:25 PM
 
2013-05-25 12:02:50 PM
Although, to be fair, I made my donation be from God.
 
2013-05-25 12:03:40 PM

ha-ha-guy: I'm an atheist and I never got why people have such strong reactions to the occasional thank god, you're blessed, or other such stuff.  It's just a social formula you mouth, like when you tell the taxi driver you'll never see again if your life to take care and have a nice day.  If someone preaches to me, I'll respond, but just smile, say thanks, and accept as the social nicety it was meant as.


Don't you thank the Lord for such a blessed outlook on life?
 
2013-05-25 12:10:26 PM
I'd give her a lot of money if she had replied "Oh for sure Wolf! I thank god that he decided to spare me while he was slaughtering all my neighbors! They must have been praying to the wrong god ... I'm an atheist so I don't have that problem!".
 
2013-05-25 12:12:31 PM

A stranger in the Alps: Churches help out their own. Atheists just did the same. Nobody needs to get butthurt about it.


Are you kidding? Most of America's going to get butthurt - the devout just watched the unbelievers financially assist an avowed unbeliever, diverting that money from the faithful that clearly deserved it. 72% of America is Christian, in one denomination or another, and to the more extreme of them, the very idea that an atheist deserves a reward for demonstrating atheism in a polite and friendly manner is like claiming that Dexter deserves a reward because he picks his victims well and cleans up afterwards.

I'm surprised she's still alive, honestly, given how religious extremism has been escalating in the United States.
 
2013-05-25 12:14:28 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.

Definitions of that word can change over time.

It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?


Did "Gay" always mean homosexual
 
2013-05-25 12:15:12 PM

Cupajo: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

I would say it's more "helping out someone who had the courage to say she was an atheist on national TV in a country where such proclamations are generally scorned by a bullying Christian majority."


awwww, the atheists are now feeling that they are being bullied.
awwww, poor babies, because we all know that the atheists never, ever, have any scorn for Christians.
 
2013-05-25 12:15:14 PM

CaptSacto: Maybe she'll get enough to get out of Oklahoma.
I'm thinking she might not be real popular in her neighborhood now.


Who cares? It's not like her neighborhood is actually there anymore.

/But agree about getting out of Oklahoma. I lived in northwest Texas and far as I'm concerned that whole part of the country can burn to the farking ground.
 
2013-05-25 12:18:21 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Cupajo: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

I would say it's more "helping out someone who had the courage to say she was an atheist on national TV in a country where such proclamations are generally scorned by a bullying Christian majority."

awwww, the atheists are now feeling that they are being bullied.
awwww, poor babies, because we all know that the atheists never, ever, have any scorn for Christians.


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-25 12:23:00 PM

gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.

Okay, but they believe in some sort of magical power in the sky that balances things out.

same thing for people who believe in luck, or superstition, or wearing a lucky shirt, or wearing your team baseball cap at a 30 degree angle during a game.

You're right; all magical thinking is stupid.  There is, however, a big difference between wearing a lucky ballcap to "help" your team and believing that your magical invisible friend in the sky told you to treat another human being like crap because they don't believe in that same deity.

Some people knock on wood in a futile effort to tilt metaphysics in their favor, others use their belief in Mr. Kolob to deprive fellow Americans of civil rights.


No, I don't think there is a difference.
At the end of the day each believes in magic.

Some use that belief to help others, some for selfish reasons, some to do harm as you noted
 
2013-05-25 12:23:25 PM

eggrolls: IT BEGINS:

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/23/glenn_beck_cnn_interview_with_atheis t_ tornado_survivor_was_a_setup/


"You gotta thank the Lord.  Do you thank the Lord?"
That's definitely an attempted setup.
 
2013-05-25 12:23:40 PM

gimmegimme: Ant: gimmegimme: Ant: log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.

I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.

Unfortunately, she didn't stop there.  The Atheism+ bullies are trying to turn a movement about resisting theocracy into yet another radical feminist echo chamber.

I just don't see it. I admit that sometimes my immediate knee-jerk reaction to some of their criticisms and complaints is "Oh, give me a farking break!", but usually when I've read their point of view on the subject, it makes sense why they might take offense to things that are said and done every day without thought.

Check out some of Thunderf00t's thoughts on the subject.  I don't know why the FTB don't just create their own radical feminist organization; that would be fine.  But it has nothing to do with skepticism or freethought.




Wow, I was blissfully ignorant of all of that.
 
2013-05-25 12:24:10 PM

Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual


Bad example. The original meaning of gay has not been compromised in any way. It is just that a new meaning was added.

That said, I do actually agree with you that words often do change for a variety of reasons. As an example, the current common use of the expression "a moot point" is to describe a point that is not worth discussing (due to it being already settled or unchangeable, etc.). The original use of this expression was to describe an interesting point that should be discussed further ... at the next 'moot' (which is a meeting).
 
2013-05-25 12:25:04 PM

Nabb1: As have I, but some people seem to act as though that behavior is universal for all people of faith. It's the flip side of the same coin.


So it's not a farking straw man argument, dumbass.  I realize I'm late, but farking hell...
 
2013-05-25 12:26:04 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: gimmegimme: tenpoundsofcheese: I May Be Crazy But...: tenpoundsofcheese: /i wonder how many atheists believe in karma

A fair number, actually. Now that I have your attention, I have to explain a bit. They probably don't believe explicitly in karma, but something similar. And they aren't the flavor of atheist that I am (I'm the "there's nothing that science can't explain" type) but they certainly don't believe in any sort of god or god-like figure.

Okay, but they believe in some sort of magical power in the sky that balances things out.

same thing for people who believe in luck, or superstition, or wearing a lucky shirt, or wearing your team baseball cap at a 30 degree angle during a game.

You're right; all magical thinking is stupid.  There is, however, a big difference between wearing a lucky ballcap to "help" your team and believing that your magical invisible friend in the sky told you to treat another human being like crap because they don't believe in that same deity.

Some people knock on wood in a futile effort to tilt metaphysics in their favor, others use their belief in Mr. Kolob to deprive fellow Americans of civil rights.

No, I don't think there is a difference.
At the end of the day each believes in magic.

Some use that belief to help others, some for selfish reasons, some to do harm as you noted


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, and that's why most atheists strike back against magical thinking, particularly the forms that cause so many problems in the world.  (Religion, anti-vaxxers, etc.)
 
2013-05-25 12:26:11 PM

Some Bass Playing Guy: Just as you probably wouldn't like people to think all atheists are bloviating anti-theists, it's probably not a good idea to
claim all religious people act or think the same way.


As all religious people believe in absolute nonsense, I am fairly comfortable with claiming that they are all idiots.
 
2013-05-25 12:27:09 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No, I don't think there is a difference.
At the end of the day each believes in magic.


Ask the person who is superstitiously wearing a ball cap to help their sports team if they really believe that they are magically improving their team's chances and most will say no. It is part of the fun of being a sports fanatic ... not usually an actual belief in magic (unlike religion).
 
2013-05-25 12:41:44 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.

Definitions of that word can change over time.

It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?


A = without, the = god, ism = belief system

It means to believe there is no god. Some try to use, "no, it just means I don't have a belief in god." But that is the same thing. To not believe there is a god, is to believe there is not one.
 
2013-05-25 12:43:17 PM

s2s2s2: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.

Definitions of that word can change over time.

It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?

A = without, the = god, ism = belief system

It means to believe there is no god. Some try to use, "no, it just means I don't have a belief in god." But that is the same thing. To not believe there is a god, is to believe there is not one.


I do not own a Maserati.  I am a-Maserati.  Therefore, I do not believe that Maseratis exist.
 
2013-05-25 12:43:49 PM
The bible defines faith as belief without evidence. If you believe there is no god, due to lack of evidence, you have faith.
 
2013-05-25 12:44:25 PM

s2s2s2: The bible defines faith as belief without evidence. If you believe there is no god, due to lack of evidence, you have faith.


The Bible also tells you to stone homosexuals and to sell your raped daughter into sex slavery.
 
2013-05-25 12:49:20 PM

Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Bad example. The original meaning of gay has not been compromised in any way. It is just that a new meaning was added.

That said, I do actually agree with you that words often do change for a variety of reasons. As an example, the current common use of the expression "a moot point" is to describe a point that is not worth discussing (due to it being already settled or unchangeable, etc.). The original use of this expression was to describe an interesting point that should be discussed further ... at the next 'moot' (which is a meeting).


which point do you feel is not worth discussing, the chance that atheism with become an organized "religion" or the chance that the definition will change or be altered?

The Gay example is a perfect example. Much like the word Gay being hijacked in modern usage to mean homosexual/lesbian, the word atheist or atheism at some point in the future will come to mean a member of an organization or "religion" of non believers.
 
2013-05-25 12:52:37 PM

gimmegimme: I do not own a Maserati. I am a-Maserati. Therefore, I do not believe that Maseratis exist.


No... aMaserati-ism would be the belief that Maseratis don't exist.
 
2013-05-25 12:54:54 PM

miscreant: gimmegimme: I do not own a Maserati. I am a-Maserati. Therefore, I do not believe that Maseratis exist.

No... aMaserati-ism would be the belief that Maseratis don't exist.


Thanks for tipping the ball in for me.
 
2013-05-25 12:58:04 PM

Waldo Pepper: The Gay example is a perfect example. Much like the word Gay being hijacked in modern usage to mean homosexual/lesbian, the word atheist or atheism at some point in the future will come to mean a member of an organization or "religion" of non believers.


Doubtful. That's probably as likely as the term "theist" being considered a religion in the future, which I think is not very likely. Those words are too broad. If you were to claim Humanism would be considered a religion in the future (or already is depending who you ask), you'd be closer to the mark. A religion requires more structure than simply "there is/isn't a god".
 
2013-05-25 12:59:53 PM

s2s2s2: Some try to use, "no, it just means I don't have a belief in god." But that is the same thing. To not believe there is a god, is to believe there is not one.


If a person calls them self an atheists to indicate that they lack a belief in god then that is what they mean.

You can argue that they are using the term wrong but you are being dishonest when you insist that they are making positive claims that no gods exist. Most atheists do not make this claim and yet religious people like to insist they do because it gives them something to argue against ... a strawman.

/ argue what people believe ... not what you decide to impose on them with your particular definitions of words
 
2013-05-25 01:12:55 PM

stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.


lol. It doesn't take any courage at all to avoid making a choice. It is exactly the opposite. I will take the "there is a god" hypothesis seriously as soon as you idiots can provide a single bit of evidence that one exists. I won't be holding my breath.
 
2013-05-25 01:13:25 PM

Dinki: Nabb1: So, you're doing it not for it's own sake, but to make a point to other people and knock down a straw man you've set up. That's nice.

Straw man? I can't begin to count the thousands of times I've been told about 'Christian charity' as if there were no other kind. The religionists have made an industry out of showing everyone how charitable they are, and how that charity must flow from their religion.


Of course charity is a big part of the Christian religion.  What is troubling to me is why you seem to have a problem with it.  Do you want them to just hoard their money and resources?  Vanilla atheism I understand, but you militant ones are every bit as baffling and annoying as those Jehovah's witnesses that feel the need to bang on every door in the neighborhood.
 
2013-05-25 01:14:47 PM

gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

I miss this analogy so much. Just tickles me to see something people hold dear to their hearts-- some so much so that they dedicate their lives to it-- reduced to a... "hobby."

Well, that's what happens when you dedicate your life to something that isn't real.  It's one thing to enjoy the original Star Wars films; it's quite another to think you are a Jedi who can move things with your thoughts and that Chewbacca is going to hang out with you at some point.


blog.angelatung.com
 
2013-05-25 01:25:41 PM
Serious question, and none of this semantic rhetorical circle-jerkery if you respond.

Have you ever met someone who was 100% convinced of the truth of the Gospel, that Jesus was indeed the son of God, etc etc --

yet then completely rejected salvation because of sheer defiance, hatred, and pride?

That's mighty spooky. It's one thing to have no belief or faith, but another entirely to have real belief and faith, yet still not accept.
 
2013-05-25 01:27:34 PM
img16.imageshack.us

Captain Dan: Offering her help because she's an atheist is bullshiat.  That's like offering a whites-only scholarship.


Actually, that's a really poor analogy. In every way imaginable, atheists would be considered a minority in America (especially in America!). So it's like offering a specific-minority-only scholarship... of which there are many.
 
2013-05-25 01:31:52 PM

Kali-Yuga: planes: [www.global-air.com image 150x195]

French philosopher Blaise Pascal reasoned that even though God may not exist, you should wager that he does, because you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. (new window)

And Pascal's wager is flawed for several reasons:

Fallacy One: It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are thousands of gods that have been worshiped throughout time. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods.

Fallacy Two: It assumes that simply wagering on God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.

Fallacy Three: It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair color, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who don't believe.


Fallacy Four: It assumes you have nothing to lose. But you do. Religious people spend a great deal of time doing religious stuff, like going to church. And they donate money and time to their church. They read scripture, they try to live by religion's rules, they feel guilty constantly, the list goes on.
 
2013-05-25 01:33:56 PM
Farking Canuck:
You can argue that they are using the term wrong but you are being dishonest when you insist that they are making positive claims that no gods exist. Most atheists do not make this claim and yet religious people like to insist they do because it gives them something to argue against ... a strawman.

/ argue what people believe ... not what you decide to impose on them with your particular definitions of words


you sound persecuted
 
2013-05-25 01:37:42 PM

Hoban Washburne: Nabb1: Of course. I am sure it is as you say.

I've heard things like this as well as "People would have no morality if it wasn't for religion" arguments from religious people way more times than I can count.  I have a very tolerant non fundamentalist Christian friend ask me once how I would instil morals in my children without religion.  She wasn't trying to be mean about it, just asking because we were talking about religion/atheism.  She's one of the nice ones.


My answer: I'd tell them, "Never take anything from anyone else without their permission. That is the core of all morality. Everything else is just window dressing."
 
2013-05-25 01:38:26 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: We agnostics are like a dead cat in the left turn lane right now. We just keep getting run over and ignored.


As they should be. Agnostics are more obnoxious than fundies or atheists can ever hope to be. You found a way to feel superior to both groups, so CONGRATULATIONS, HAVE A FARKING COOKIE.
 
2013-05-25 01:40:06 PM

Lor M. Ipsum: Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.


Again, I say: on a teeter totter with a 90-pound girl and a 2-ton elephant, the balance point is not in the exact middle. That favors the elephant.
 
2013-05-25 01:41:54 PM

umad: As they should be. Agnostics are more obnoxious than fundies or atheists can ever hope to be. You found a way to feel superior to both groups, so CONGRATULATIONS, HAVE A FARKING COOKIE.


so having a life philosophy that doesn't insist on you being a raging lunatic or a complete asshole is a bad thing?
 
2013-05-25 01:42:06 PM

rzrwiresunrise: gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

I miss this analogy so much. Just tickles me to see something people hold dear to their hearts-- some so much so that they dedicate their lives to it-- reduced to a... "hobby."

Well, that's what happens when you dedicate your life to something that isn't real.  It's one thing to enjoy the original Star Wars films; it's quite another to think you are a Jedi who can move things with your thoughts and that Chewbacca is going to hang out with you at some point.

[blog.angelatung.com image 300x256]


Oh, I'm well aware of what "Chewbacca" means.
 
2013-05-25 01:44:54 PM

Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual


Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?
 
2013-05-25 01:46:55 PM

Voiceofreason01: umad: As they should be. Agnostics are more obnoxious than fundies or atheists can ever hope to be. You found a way to feel superior to both groups, so CONGRATULATIONS, HAVE A FARKING COOKIE.

so having a life philosophy that doesn't insist on you being a raging lunatic or a complete asshole is a bad thing?


What makes a mainstream atheist an asshole?  Stating their beliefs?  Protesting the teaching of creationism in schools?
 
2013-05-25 01:49:14 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?


The Oxford English Dictionary rules.
 
2013-05-25 01:49:51 PM

hardinparamedic: log_jammin: I doubt this lady experiences more than a few whispers between coworkers about "did you hear she's an atheist?". and hopefully she won't even experience that until her home is rebuilt and her life is back in order. There is a lot of derp and derpers in red states, but for the most part, the people in them, don't worry themselves of what religion their coworkers are, or aren't.

Studies have found that people who commit abhorrant crimes are trusted more than Atheists and Secular Humanists in the United States. In reality, discrimination against Atheists in employment and government positions is rampant, even going so far as to being written into State employment laws and even State Constitutions when it comes to holding political office. Many states in the south outright make it illegal for an Atheist or nOn-theist to hold office.


Of course, thanks to Torcaso v. Watkins, these laws are unenforceable. If they try, they will get slapped down by every court imaginable.
 
2013-05-25 01:50:07 PM

gimmegimme: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?

The Oxford English Dictionary rules.


That link doesn't go anywhere. What?
 
2013-05-25 01:50:11 PM

Pumpernickel bread: Of course charity is a big part of the Christian religion.  What is troubling to me is why you seem to have a problem with it.  Do you want them to just hoard their money and resources?  Vanilla atheism I understand, but you militant ones are every bit as baffling and annoying as those Jehovah's witnesses that feel the need to bang on every door in the neighborhood.



In 2011, the majority of charitable dollars in the U.S. went to religion (32%), education (13%), human services (12%), and grant making foundations (9%)

Using money to advance one's religion isn't really charity and money given to one's church is more of a social insurance policy for members of that group than anything else. The vast majority, as high as 80-90% in some sects, of religious "charity" goes to help other members of that same religion, not society as a whole in any way.
 
2013-05-25 01:52:17 PM

LasersHurt: gimmegimme: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?

The Oxford English Dictionary rules.

That link doesn't go anywhere. What?


For me, it goes to the OED definition of "gay."  The OED offers a comprehensive history of the word "gay" and what it has meant over the years.
 
2013-05-25 01:52:20 PM

gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: The Billdozer: LasersHurt: The Billdozer: /understands atheism
//can't understand "atheists"

You don't understand that the language naturally implies a term for a group of people?

To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

I miss this analogy so much. Just tickles me to see something people hold dear to their hearts-- some so much so that they dedicate their lives to it-- reduced to a... "hobby."

Well, that's what happens when you dedicate your life to something that isn't real.  It's one thing to enjoy the original Star Wars films; it's quite another to think you are a Jedi who can move things with your thoughts and that Chewbacca is going to hang out with you at some point.

[blog.angelatung.com image 300x256]

Oh, I'm well aware of what "Chewbacca" means.


I'm not sure you quite got it. Think about who made the comparison in the post I quoted. That's the joke.
 
2013-05-25 01:53:22 PM

rzrwiresunrise: So I'm guessing the ones whining about donations to this lady "because" she's atheist don't whine about people being persecuted for their Christian beliefs in Muslim countries simply "because" they're Christian?


They also justify denying donations to her "because" she's an atheist.
 
2013-05-25 01:53:46 PM
gimmegimme:
What makes a mainstream atheist an asshole?  Stating their beliefs?  Protesting the teaching of creationism in schools?

We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

/much the same way certain people point to The Westboro Baptist Church or The American Family Association as being representative of Christianity.
 
2013-05-25 01:55:25 PM

Voiceofreason01: umad: As they should be. Agnostics are more obnoxious than fundies or atheists can ever hope to be. You found a way to feel superior to both groups, so CONGRATULATIONS, HAVE A FARKING COOKIE.

so having a life philosophy that doesn't insist on you being a raging lunatic or a complete asshole is a bad thing?


A life philosophy that gives the same respect to the irrational as it does to the rational is indeed a bad thing. Grow a spine and start using your farking brain already.
 
2013-05-25 01:58:44 PM

gimmegimme: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?

The Oxford English Dictionary rules.


You surely realize none of us have accounts there.
 
2013-05-25 02:00:17 PM

umad: A life philosophy that gives the same respect to the irrational as it does to the rational is indeed a bad thing. Grow a spine and start using your farking brain already.


rationality? Like claiming that religion is the direct cause of much of the world's violence and blaming Christianity in general for abuses taken in the name of a similar belief system, half a world away?
 
2013-05-25 02:00:49 PM

LasersHurt: It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?


You are trying to make a logical argument in a discussion with a religious nutbag.  It's a waste of time.
 
2013-05-25 02:01:33 PM

Voiceofreason01: gimmegimme:
What makes a mainstream atheist an asshole?  Stating their beliefs?  Protesting the teaching of creationism in schools?

We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

/much the same way certain people point to The Westboro Baptist Church or The American Family Association as being representative of Christianity.


Wow, that's an UNFAIR comparison.  WBC says all those horrible things about...everyone.  The American Family Association actively works to make the lives of others worse.  Surely you can provide examples of equivalent assholitude from Dawkins and Maher.

DoctorCal: gimmegimme: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?

The Oxford English Dictionary rules.

You surely realize none of us have accounts there.


Oh.  Sorry.  I suppose this demonstrates how intelligent and well-educated I think (most) Farkers are.
 
2013-05-25 02:01:42 PM

Voiceofreason01: Farking Canuck:
You can argue that they are using the term wrong but you are being dishonest when you insist that they are making positive claims that no gods exist. Most atheists do not make this claim and yet religious people like to insist they do because it gives them something to argue against ... a strawman.

/ argue what people believe ... not what you decide to impose on them with your particular definitions of words

you sound persecuted


Nope ... I live in Canada. Nobody ever asks what church I go to and very few would have an issue if I said "none" or "I am an atheist".

I was simply pointing out a common dishonest and logically unsound argument that religious people tend to make.
 
2013-05-25 02:02:44 PM

ha-ha-guy: I'm an atheist and I never got why people have such strong reactions to the occasional thank god, you're blessed, or other such stuff.  It's just a social formula you mouth, like when you tell the taxi driver you'll never see again if your life to take care and have a nice day.  If someone preaches to me, I'll respond, but just smile, say thanks, and accept as the social nicety it was meant as.


Blitzer was bizarre in the interview.  It was like watching The 700 Club.  He went on about blessings and praising the lord to a woman who's house was destroyed.
 
2013-05-25 02:04:17 PM

gimmegimme: Oh.  Sorry.  I suppose this demonstrates how intelligent and well-educated I think (most) Farkers are.


Subscribing to the OED online is your litmus test for intelligence and education?
 
2013-05-25 02:06:38 PM

LasersHurt: gimmegimme: Oh.  Sorry.  I suppose this demonstrates how intelligent and well-educated I think (most) Farkers are.

Subscribing to the OED online is your litmus test for intelligence and education?


No, I took it for granted that some Farkers would have access through library/university accounts and so on.  I was being serious; I've "met" a lot of very smart folks during my time on Fark.
 
2013-05-25 02:08:21 PM

Voiceofreason01: We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.


...the fact that theists lump Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins together says more about them than either Maher or Dawkins. They are not at all alike. Maher's definitely the bigger asshole in this picture.  People only think Dawkins is an asshole because he had the temerity to name a book "The God Delusion".
 
2013-05-25 02:13:45 PM

IlGreven: Voiceofreason01: We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

...the fact that theists lump Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins together says more about them than either Maher or Dawkins. They are not at all alike. Maher's definitely the bigger asshole in this picture.  People only think Dawkins is an asshole because he had the temerity to name a book "The God Delusion".


upload.wikimedia.org
www.howanswers.us
sparrowsandsandcastles.files.wordpress.com
upload.wikimedia.org
a.abcnews.com
 
2013-05-25 02:13:55 PM

gimmegimme: Voiceofreason01: gimmegimme:
What makes a mainstream atheist an asshole?  Stating their beliefs?  Protesting the teaching of creationism in schools?

We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

/much the same way certain people point to The Westboro Baptist Church or The American Family Association as being representative of Christianity.

Wow, that's an UNFAIR comparison.  WBC says all those horrible things about...everyone.  The American Family Association actively works to make the lives of others worse.  Surely you can provide examples of equivalent assholitude from Dawkins and Maher.

DoctorCal: gimmegimme: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: Did "Gay" always mean homosexual

Did "Gay" USED to mean "heterosexual"?

The Oxford English Dictionary rules.

You surely realize none of us have accounts there.

Oh.  Sorry.  I suppose this demonstrates how intelligent and well-educated I think (most) Farkers are.


Of course. But got dayum they are expensive. OED is one of greatest things in existence, but I can't justify $300/year for it.
 
2013-05-25 02:16:57 PM
Saying you are an agnostic does not mean you are above the fray.

Here there comes a practical question which has often troubled me. Whenever I go into a foreign country or a prison or any similar place they always ask me what is my religion. I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods. None of us would seriously consider the possibility that all the gods of homer really exist, and yet if you were to set to work to give a logical demonstration that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and the rest of them did not exist you would find it an awful job. You could not get such proof. Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line.

Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?

Richard Dawkins has been heavily influenced by Russell, and he has really paraphrased this position as his own. And over and over, I see him characterized as an asshole for doing so. If it isn't this stance that makes him an asshole, but something else, I'd be curious to know; so far, every time I've asked someone who has called Dawkins an asshole for a specific quote or act that makes him one, they have left the thread.

It amuses me that some Christians take offense to the idea that their god should be lumped in with other gods that people have worshiped throughout history. Their dogma is plausible, whereas that other dogma is just ridiculous.
 
2013-05-25 02:22:47 PM

Repo Man: Saying you are an agnostic does not mean you are above the fray.

Here there comes a practical question which has often troubled me. Whenever I go into a foreign country or a prison or any similar place they always ask me what is my religion. I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods. None of us would seriously consider the possibility that all the gods of homer really exist, and yet if you were to set to work to give a logical demonstration that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and the rest of them did not exist you would find it an awful job. You could not get such proof. Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line.

Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?

Richard Dawkins has been heavily influenced by Russell, and he has really paraphrased this position as his own. And over and over, I see him characterized as an asshole for doing so. If it isn't this stance that makes him an asshole, but something else, I'd be curious to know; so far, every time I've asked someone who has called Dawkins an asshole for a specific quote or act that makes him one, they have left the thread.

It amuses me that some Christians take offense to the idea that their god should be lumped in with other gods that people have worshiped throughout history. Their dogma is plausible, whereas that other dogma is just ridiculous.


I found The God Delusion a little shrill, nor have I found the arguments against the existence of god(s) based on the reprobate character of the Judeo-Christian god compelling.
 
2013-05-25 02:25:29 PM

Voiceofreason01: umad: A life philosophy that gives the same respect to the irrational as it does to the rational is indeed a bad thing. Grow a spine and start using your farking brain already.

rationality? Like claiming that religion is the direct cause of much of the world's violence and blaming Christianity in general for abuses taken in the name of a similar belief system, half a world away?


No. A strawman argument is a fallacy, and therefore irrational.
 
2013-05-25 02:26:01 PM

rzrwiresunrise: I found The God Delusion a little shrill, nor have I found the arguments against the existence of god(s) based on the reprobate character of the Judeo-Christian god compelling.


You know, reading one or two pages of a book in an Amazon preview doesn't mean you know what the whole book says.
 
2013-05-25 02:26:05 PM

Nabb1: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

Kind of agree.  I don't know if that was the intent, but it kind of smacks of some backdoor prejudices.


Yep absolutely upfront prejudices against ignorance, blind faith and near universal peer pressure to believe in god.
 
2013-05-25 02:31:15 PM

hardinparamedic: Lor M. Ipsum: Donating to people in need is great, but if you want to really send a message, donate to people regardless of their religion (or lack thereof).  It seems like this is just driving the stake deeper in an already polarized debate.

This happens all the time, and is one of the major barriers that disaster planners and relief agencies have to work around when they are planning contengiency plans for these situations when involving faith based organizations. And I have far, far more respect for organizations like the United Methodist Church that help everyone (they have a huge kitchen ministry for disasters) than I do for some local church that only helps their congregation or religious belief. . And yes, people WILL refuse to help you after something like this if you are not of faith, or more accurately - their faith. The Red Cross tries to form agreesments with some churches that refuse to act as shelters along the principles of  the Red Cross because they cannot actively evangalicise or restrict the people they help to only those of their faith.

When the Pope says you're a bunch of douchebags for alienating good people on the basis of their faith, you're a bunch of douchebags.


You do realize Frances was directing that mesage at atheists, don't you?

 If you meant individuals who  help only those of their own faith or faith in general, that's like any other excuse for being stingy.  "Get a job, bum" means "get a job, like me, bum." I have never heard of a church that refused aid to a disaster victim, or a soup kitchen or homeless shelter that turned away anyone on the basis of faith.  You might have to listen to some proselytizing, but you'll get help.

First they'll do a little singin',
Then hear a little preachin'
And get saved for the 3rd time this week
A bowl of soup later and a pat on the shoulder
And by midnight, they're back on the street

"Midnight Choir" - Gatlin Bros.
 
2013-05-25 02:36:03 PM

Billy Bathsalt: DoctorCal: I think it's quite possible that Wolf is patronizing her, and hoping for a highly emotional, affirmative response just for the entertainment value.

I mean, he's Jewish, so...thank the Lord, thank the Lord doesn't seem like it would be his sincere reaction.

?  Because Jews haven't heard of God?

If you watch the video, the first time he asks her she says "yuh."  After he presser her, "Do you thank the Lord?" she says, "Actually, I'm an atheist."  That's not attention whoring.  There is somebody downtown with a bullhorn right now berating people for not having the loud person's identical beliefs.  That's attention whoring.  I'm going to give her a donation just for getting Wolf to STFU with his assumptions about her.
There was also the "lost dog" woman, who when the interviewer asked "Are you able to comprehend yet what happened here?" and she said "I know exactly what happened here."
I have to admit that these two women gave me a lot more respect for the people of Oklahoma.  No tears and self-pity, just straightforward plain speaking.


Oklahoma: almost as good as Texas but colder and with Indians.
 
2013-05-25 02:37:31 PM

hardinparamedic: Captain Dan: Christian charities don't limit aid to Christian victims.

BULL. shiat.

As I pointed out before, this is one of the major issues with disaster planning when engaging with Faith-based organizations. There are still churches out there that either A) Demand the right to evangelize or prosthelatize to the people they are aiding in a disaster, or B) Demand that they only help members of their congregation alone.

This is the reason that the American Red Cross will flat out refuse an offer from a church or homeless shelter to shelter victims after a disaster if they try to pull that shiat, and will even close a shelter or pull their endorsement if they catch someone doing that.


So when has the RC done that?
 
2013-05-25 02:39:09 PM

Captain Dan: Lenny_da_Hog: And how many Christian charities make receiving their aid contingent upon listening to their sales pitch if you're not a member? It's not like it's without strings all the time. Sure, there are some really good ones that don't do that, but there are also plenty that do.

I've attended over a dozen churches across the country and never encountered that.

If a church did that, I would call them out on their bullshiat.  Selective aid is un-Christian behavior, and any church who practiced it would deserve all the ignominy they receive.

The parable of the Good Samaritan was intended to demonstrate the ethical imperative of helping all people, even those who you hate or have nothing in common with.  Jesus's teachings on this could not be any more clear.


Assemblies of God churches are pretty big on this actually. I went to help from them (I actually attended their church) but because I didn't go through their leadership program to become an official member, they denied the ability to help me. A bit later they built a huge addition to the church, a fountain, and a school (which they charge to attend.) I could point out quite a few churches that have no problem taking tithes from you as a "non-member" though.

This lesson in "Christianity" taught me that I'll find God without an organization or an asshole trying to sell me salvation.


/"New Life" church Renton/Maple Valley, WA is full of self serving hypocritical assholes by the way. Beautiful corporate campus though.
 
2013-05-25 02:39:19 PM

liam76: LasersHurt: liam76: I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.

An, in a general sense, neither do atheists. Let's all remember that this one campaign /= the sum total of atheist giving.

I am highlighting the problem with "this one campaign".

He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".


Like the one you set up, right?
 
2013-05-25 02:40:42 PM
Atheists in general are pretty smart people.  A few atheists on Fark are pretty smart people.  Most of the atheists I've seen on Fark are dumber than paint.
 
2013-05-25 02:43:04 PM

The Billdozer: Evilhippie: The Billdozer:
To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

Though your initial statement was indeed dumb; most blanket statements tend to be. I agree your following attempt to explain your bigoted opinion is even dumber. I'm not even going to waste time explaining why, since you can just read up on the last couple of post.

As long as you can feel superior to someone, the time you wasted writing that out was well worth it!


There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.
 
2013-05-25 02:44:11 PM

ReverendJynxed: Captain Dan: Lenny_da_Hog: And how many Christian charities make receiving their aid contingent upon listening to their sales pitch if you're not a member? It's not like it's without strings all the time. Sure, there are some really good ones that don't do that, but there are also plenty that do.

I've attended over a dozen churches across the country and never encountered that.

If a church did that, I would call them out on their bullshiat.  Selective aid is un-Christian behavior, and any church who practiced it would deserve all the ignominy they receive.

The parable of the Good Samaritan was intended to demonstrate the ethical imperative of helping all people, even those who you hate or have nothing in common with.  Jesus's teachings on this could not be any more clear.

Assemblies of God churches are pretty big on this actually. I went to get help from them (I actually attended their church) but because I didn't go through their leadership program to become an official member, they denied the ability to help me. A bit later they built a huge addition to the church, a fountain, and a school (which they charge to attend.) I could point out quite a few churches that have no problem taking tithes from you as a "non-member" though.

This lesson in "Christianity" taught me that I'll find God without an organization or an asshole trying to sell me salvation.


/"New Life" church Renton/Maple Valley, WA is full of self serving hypocritical assholes by the way. Beautiful corporate campus though.


/FTFM
 
2013-05-25 02:46:15 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The Billdozer: Evilhippie: The Billdozer:
To dumb it down:

I get why people don't collect stamps.

I don't get why a subset of these same people have groups, charities, people who wrote blogs and books, and are extremely vocal about their disdain for not collecting stamps and then biatch and whine when people point out their non-hobby "hobby".

Though your initial statement was indeed dumb; most blanket statements tend to be. I agree your following attempt to explain your bigoted opinion is even dumber. I'm not even going to waste time explaining why, since you can just read up on the last couple of post.

As long as you can feel superior to someone, the time you wasted writing that out was well worth it!

There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.


Here's the difference: stamps exist.
 
2013-05-25 02:47:26 PM
You know at the end of the day, I'm sure this lady couldn't give a flying flip what group wants to help her only that they do want to help her. She lost her home. She lost her neighborhood. She probably lost her car as well. She has a child to look after. And I am sure all she wants is a roof over her head and food in her belly.

If an atheist group has raised over 79 grand, I only hope that she sees every penny and that it helps her get her life back as close to normal as she can get it.

This whole thread is trivial. (Which, is basically what Fark arguments are. Often amusing but trivial.) So, if you think atheists are better than religious people, stop arguing and donate. If you think atheists are full of it in that line of belief, stop arguing and donate too.

Kids are expensive. Houses aren't cheap. Neither is therapy, which I am sure after going through this ordeal, she's going to need. 79 grand is nice but more would help.
 
2013-05-25 02:48:34 PM
Cool.

Good on her. Hope her family gets the help she needs.
 
2013-05-25 02:53:20 PM

gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: I found The God Delusion a little shrill, nor have I found the arguments against the existence of god(s) based on the reprobate character of the Judeo-Christian god compelling.

You know, reading one or two pages of a book in an Amazon preview doesn't mean you know what the whole book says.


You know, being a pr*ck about your atheism doesn't mean it's based on the most cogent reasoning. Attacking the deeds or character of a deity do nothing to advance the argument against its existence-- that's just a dressed-up form of an ad hom attack. The same argument could be used to try and refute the existence of Zeus, Odin or Huitzilopóchtli, each of whose adherents were accepting of their cruelties and made no naïve protestations as to their magnanimity, even as they gave thanks. The only thing it can do is demonstrate the ontological inconsistencies in Christianity.

Sing praises to Dawkins all you like, but my opinion of the book, and his general approach to boot, still stands. My atheism won't suffer a bit for it, either.
 
2013-05-25 02:53:28 PM
Anything good that happens is because of God. But not anything bad. None of that is his fault.

/Must be nice.
 
2013-05-25 02:55:53 PM
alklloyd: Anything good that happens is because of God Obama. But not anything bad. None of that is his fault.

/Must be nice.

FTFY
 
2013-05-25 02:56:59 PM

rzrwiresunrise: gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: I found The God Delusion a little shrill, nor have I found the arguments against the existence of god(s) based on the reprobate character of the Judeo-Christian god compelling.

You know, reading one or two pages of a book in an Amazon preview doesn't mean you know what the whole book says.

You know, being a pr*ck about your atheism doesn't mean it's based on the most cogent reasoning. Attacking the deeds or character of a deity do nothing to advance the argument against its existence-- that's just a dressed-up form of an ad hom attack. The same argument could be used to try and refute the existence of Zeus, Odin or Huitzilopóchtli, each of whose adherents were accepting of their cruelties and made no naïve protestations as to their magnanimity, even as they gave thanks. The only thing it can do is demonstrate the ontological inconsistencies in Christianity.

Sing praises to Dawkins all you like, but my opinion of the book, and his general approach to boot, still stands. My atheism won't suffer a bit for it, either.


Why waste your time trying to find prickery in Dawkins or Maher when I've pointed out the real, tangible harm done by the prickery of religion?
 
2013-05-25 02:58:41 PM
People who accuse atheists of attention whoring simply because they say they are atheists are exactly the same as people who accuse gays of "shoving their gayness down our throats" for simply asking for equal rights, and thus they deserve the same scorn.
 
2013-05-25 03:02:07 PM

gimmegimme: IlGreven: Voiceofreason01: We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

...the fact that theists lump Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins together says more about them than either Maher or Dawkins. They are not at all alike. Maher's definitely the bigger asshole in this picture.  People only think Dawkins is an asshole because he had the temerity to name a book "The God Delusion".

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x305]
[www.howanswers.us image 247x198]
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No they're not equivalent but they all stem from the same basic problem: bigotry, ignorance and tribalism and those are the issues that need to be addressed. As long as people look across the pew/aisle/fence/whatever and see someone different from themselves and hate them for those differences we're going to have problems; and call me a romantic but I tend to believe that it's the hatred and not the differences that are the problem.
 
2013-05-25 03:04:22 PM

Voiceofreason01: gimmegimme: IlGreven: Voiceofreason01: We can argue semantics about what is and isn't "mainstream atheism" but Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher are both extremely vocal and in a lot of people's eyes are pretty representative of atheists in general(yes I know that they're not) and they're both assholes with their anti-theism.

...the fact that theists lump Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins together says more about them than either Maher or Dawkins. They are not at all alike. Maher's definitely the bigger asshole in this picture.  People only think Dawkins is an asshole because he had the temerity to name a book "The God Delusion".

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No they're not equivalent but they all stem from the same basic problem: bigotry, ignorance and tribalism and those are the issues that need to be addressed. As long as people look across the pew/aisle/fence/whatever and see someone different from themselves and hate them for those differences we're going to have problems; and call me a romantic but I tend to believe that it's the hatred and not the differences that are the problem.


So you feel that Dawkins' book is an example of "bigotry, ignorance and tribalism"So which fields of academic endeavor are NOT representative of "bigotry, ignorance and tribalism?"
 
2013-05-25 03:09:29 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.


Sure there is, and it's already in motion.  The primary definition of "religion" is "the service or worship of God or the supernatural."  But more recent, expansive definitions include things like, "a cause, principle,, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith."  Atheism fits comfortably within the latter.   When we get to the point where religion is simply a belief system that relies upon faith, then atheism  is a religion.

There are definite advantages to being  considered a religious person.  Atheists might consider them before rejecting the label.
 
2013-05-25 03:12:00 PM

BarkingUnicorn: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

Sure there is, and it's already in motion.  The primary definition of "religion" is "the service or worship of God or the supernatural."  But more recent, expansive definitions include things like, "a cause, principle,, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith."  Atheism fits comfortably within the latter.   When we get to the point where religion is simply a belief system that relies upon faith, then atheism  is a religion.

There are definite advantages to being  considered a religious person.  Atheists might consider them before rejecting the label.


Which dictionary are you using?  (You might want to cite such things in the future.)
 
2013-05-25 03:16:12 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.

Definitions of that word can change over time.

It LITERALLY means a-theism - without religion. How could that change over time to mean exactly the opposite?


Your Latin sucks.  A-theism means "without belief in God."
 
2013-05-25 03:16:52 PM

Triumph: It's rare, but sometimes you gotta eject on takeoff.

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that wasnt takeoff..
 
2013-05-25 03:17:26 PM

gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: gimmegimme: rzrwiresunrise: I found The God Delusion a little shrill, nor have I found the arguments against the existence of god(s) based on the reprobate character of the Judeo-Christian god compelling.

You know, reading one or two pages of a book in an Amazon preview doesn't mean you know what the whole book says.

You know, being a pr*ck about your atheism doesn't mean it's based on the most cogent reasoning. Attacking the deeds or character of a deity do nothing to advance the argument against its existence-- that's just a dressed-up form of an ad hom attack. The same argument could be used to try and refute the existence of Zeus, Odin or Huitzilopóchtli, each of whose adherents were accepting of their cruelties and made no naïve protestations as to their magnanimity, even as they gave thanks. The only thing it can do is demonstrate the ontological inconsistencies in Christianity.

Sing praises to Dawkins all you like, but my opinion of the book, and his general approach to boot, still stands. My atheism won't suffer a bit for it, either.

Why waste your time trying to find prickery in Dawkins or Maher when I've pointed out the real, tangible harm done by the prickery of religion?


*pats head*

Hookay. Run along and play.
 
2013-05-25 03:32:28 PM

gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.


And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.
 
2013-05-25 03:32:43 PM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


Conversely, the religious went in and "ministered" to the survivors which is exactly the same as doing nothing.
 
2013-05-25 03:33:39 PM

dforkus: Wha profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul.,

ZZZzzz...

 
2013-05-25 03:34:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.


Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.
 
2013-05-25 03:37:53 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

Sure there is, and it's already in motion.  The primary definition of "religion" is "the service or worship of God or the supernatural."  But more recent, expansive definitions include things like, "a cause, principle,, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith."  Atheism fits comfortably within the latter.   When we get to the point where religion is simply a belief system that relies upon faith, then atheism  is a religion.

There are definite advantages to being  considered a religious person.  Atheists might consider them before rejecting the label.

Which dictionary are you using?  (You might want to cite such things in the future.)


Merriam-Webster.  Ffs, do not use dictionary.com, it's no more lexicography than About.com is encyclopedic.

it doesn't really matter what dictionary you use.  You'll find examples of such expansion everywhere, including in legislation and policies designed to protect "strongly-held personal beliefs."
 
2013-05-25 03:39:53 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

Sure there is, and it's already in motion.  The primary definition of "religion" is "the service or worship of God or the supernatural."  But more recent, expansive definitions include things like, "a cause, principle,, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith."  Atheism fits comfortably within the latter.   When we get to the point where religion is simply a belief system that relies upon faith, then atheism  is a religion.

There are definite advantages to being  considered a religious person.  Atheists might consider them before rejecting the label.

Which dictionary are you using?  (You might want to cite such things in the future.)

Merriam-Webster.  Ffs, do not use dictionary.com, it's no more lexicography than About.com is encyclopedic.

it doesn't really matter what dictionary you use.  You'll find examples of such expansion everywhere, including in legislation and policies designed to protect "strongly-held personal beliefs."


Well, I'm sure language will keep evolving (as it always has) to ensure that people who believe in reality can differentiate themselves from those who don't.
 
2013-05-25 03:40:19 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.


Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.
 
2013-05-25 03:41:58 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

Sure there is, and it's already in motion.  The primary definition of "religion" is "the service or worship of God or the supernatural."  But more recent, expansive definitions include things like, "a cause, principle,, or system of beliefs held to with ardor or faith."  Atheism fits comfortably within the latter.   When we get to the point where religion is simply a belief system that relies upon faith, then atheism  is a religion.

There are definite advantages to being  considered a religious person.  Atheists might consider them before rejecting the label.

Which dictionary are you using?  (You might want to cite such things in the future.)

Merriam-Webster.  Ffs, do not use dictionary.com, it's no more lexicography than About.com is encyclopedic.

it doesn't really matter what dictionary you use.  You'll find examples of such expansion everywhere, including in legislation and policies designed to protect "strongly-held personal beliefs."

Well, I'm sure language will keep evolving (as it always has) to ensure that people who believe in reality can differentiate themselves from those who don't.


I think the word, "realist" serves that purpose.  First known use, 1817.  Again, from m-w.com
 
2013-05-25 03:42:48 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.


Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.
 
2013-05-25 03:45:44 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.


No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.
 
2013-05-25 03:45:46 PM

DrewFL: Such a passive aggressive and elitist thing to do...Because Stanhope had media and a figurehead he made a bullshiat point for no ones benefit but his own (im sure the "randomly atheist" winner was vetted and their home inspected for F5 code. Just shiatty. it's the belt buckle of the USA. People are religious there. It was an exceedingly mean and shiatty thing to do.


As an atheist, I'm ragingly "meh" about this.

However, I thought his perks for donations were awesome.
 
2013-05-25 03:47:34 PM
I'll enjoy the followup story in which the woman uses part of the money to help her neighbors.
 
2013-05-25 03:47:55 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.


So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?
 
2013-05-25 03:49:13 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.

So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?


No, truth is not necessary to feel better.  You  should care what I say only if it makes you feel better.
 
2013-05-25 03:50:58 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.

So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?

No, truth is not necessary to feel better.  You  should care what I say only if it makes you feel better.


Sorry.  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.
 
2013-05-25 03:51:42 PM

DoctorCal: I think it's quite possible that Wolf is patronizing her, and hoping for a highly emotional, affirmative response just for the entertainment value.

I mean, he's Jewish, so...thank the Lord, thank the Lord doesn't seem like it would be his sincere reaction.


I suspect they have a check-list when when interviewing tornado survivors.

Something like
Hilarious local accent [ ]
Pajamas [ ]
Curlers [ ]
Sad worthless item salvaged [ ]
Irreplaceable item lost [ ]
etc.
 
2013-05-25 03:55:32 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.

So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?

No, truth is not necessary to feel better.  You  should care what I say only if it makes you feel better.

Sorry.  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.


Whatever makes you feel better.  But such a criterion limits your options.

You won't find logic, reason, or truth on anyone's list of the necessities of life.  They're not in the mission statements of any social safety-net services.  They are optional luxuries.
 
2013-05-25 04:00:21 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.

So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?

No, truth is not necessary to feel better.  You  should care what I say only if it makes you feel better.

Sorry.  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

Whatever makes you feel better.  But such a criterion limits your options.

You won't find logic, reason, or truth on anyone's list of the necessities of life.  They're not in the mission statements of any social safety-net services.  They are optional luxuries.


Are you a Scientologist, by any chance?
 
2013-05-25 04:03:24 PM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


This is idiotic.  Name a church that doesn't look out and help out their membership SOLELY because they are in the church.

That's right, someone does for an atheist what churches do for Christians EVERY DAY, and you call it "dick motivation".  So I wonder what your opinion is of the church that helps its membership because they are christian.  (and less so because jesus said to be nice to other people)
 
2013-05-25 04:04:19 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: There you go.  Whether you believe or disbelieve; tolerate or discriminate; abstain or fark; you do it to feel better.

Here's the difference: stamps exist.

And what difference does that make?  Right; you feel better about believing in things that exist.

Yes...thank you.  I'm so glad we could come to an agreement.

Much division an strife could be avoided if people  would just admit that all they do is seek to feel better.

Agreed.  Far too many people are loathe to admit that they don't care if what they believe is true and that they prefer to live in a fantasy world rather than the real one.

No, the difficulty is that most people don't want to admit they're entirely selfish.  Selfishness has acquired a bad rep.

So you don't believe that truth is a necessity?  Why should anyone care what you have to say if you don't particularly care if what you  say is true?

No, truth is not necessary to feel better.  You  should care what I say only if it makes you feel better.

Sorry.  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

Whatever makes you feel better.  But such a criterion limits your options.

You won't find logic, reason, or truth on anyone's list of the necessities of life.  They're not in the mission statements of any social safety-net services.  They are optional luxuries.

Are you a Scientologist, by any chance?


No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."
 
2013-05-25 04:05:31 PM
 
2013-05-25 04:07:17 PM

BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."


Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-25 04:08:02 PM
gimmegimme:  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

I actually own this t-shirt:

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-25 04:26:40 PM

Dragonflew: gimmegimme:  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

I actually own this t-shirt:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


I see what they did there. Excellent.
 
2013-05-25 04:30:31 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]


You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.
 
2013-05-25 04:32:41 PM

Dragonflew: gimmegimme:  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

I actually own this t-shirt:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


Now that's obtuse.  Thanks for illustrating the correct use of the word.
 
2013-05-25 04:32:56 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.


Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.
 
2013-05-25 04:36:22 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.

Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.


No, because contemplating your suffering makes me feel better.  I appreciate my lack of such suffering  more.
 
2013-05-25 04:40:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.  Can you imagine a judge saying such a thing to a jury?  Of course not.  I love literature and it can be mined for emotional truth and so on.  But circular reasoning is not proof of something in reality.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 470x441]

You've never experienced a court if you believe its proceedings are dedicated to discovering truth.  A judge's job is to see that justice is served.  The perception that justice was served makes people feel better.

What is "emotional truth" if not "that which makes you feel better?"  And I think you're misusing the word, "obtuse."  What I'm saying is not at all complex or difficult to understand; it's merely hard to accept.

Everything that everyone does is done with the intention of feeling better, no matter what other justifications are heaped upon it.

That's hardly obtuse.

Will you please draft a letter for me to Sallie Mae indicating that I feel I already paid them and that it makes me feel better to have them realize the truth: that my student loans are already paid off?  Thanks in advance.

No, because contemplating your suffering makes me feel better.  I appreciate my lack of such suffering  more.


Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?
 
2013-05-25 04:43:29 PM

gimmegimme: Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?


Morality is a system of rules for living a life that makes you feel better.  So the answer is, "It can be."
 
2013-05-25 04:47:59 PM

Cats_Lie: Anyone read the perks offered on that site?  "Get out of hell free" card, "First choice for reincarnation, " etc.

Personally I didn't find them funny and they detract from the classiness of the overall effort, if you ask me.


Off topic a bit but I bought 250 GOOH Free cards when we had major layoffs coming at work. When I ran out I bought more. I gave a few to almost everyone I knew and soon they were everywhere. Most laughed and posted them on their walls. One person wanted nothing to do with them. Years later people mention them sometimes and when I tell them I passed them out they wondered where they came from. I still see them all over in offices. I still give them out. They made it to places well beyond my work area.

On topic I don't see them as a distraction. He is a comedian, right?
 
2013-05-25 04:53:50 PM

gimmegimme: The Bible also tells you to stone homosexuals and to sell your raped daughter into sex slavery.


Wrong testament.
 
2013-05-25 04:57:53 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?

Morality is a system of rules for living a life that makes you feel better.  So the answer is, "It can be."


What?
 
2013-05-25 04:58:28 PM

Farking Canuck: If a person calls them self an atheists to indicate that they lack a belief in god then that is what they mean.


Yeah. Lot's of people "mean" something else than what they say when they say it.

"Do you believe in God?"

Atheist: No.

"Do you believe there is no god?"

A: No.

Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that atheists DON'T believe there is no god?

Are you an atheist? How would you answer all of these questions?
 
2013-05-25 05:00:23 PM
Oh, goody. Go go gadget - sophistry!
 
2013-05-25 05:01:56 PM

Waldo Pepper: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: Is it a moral action to feel better when a stranger is suffering?

Morality is a system of rules for living a life that makes you feel better.  So the answer is, "It can be."

What?


Well, what else morality?
 
2013-05-25 05:03:52 PM
Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"
 
2013-05-25 05:06:21 PM

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: The Bible also tells you to stone homosexuals and to sell your raped daughter into sex slavery.

Wrong testament.


I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.
 
2013-05-25 05:08:38 PM

gimmegimme: I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.


Most "Christians" don't really care about either testament.
 
2013-05-25 05:10:01 PM

Abe Vig-Yoda: Sigh. A lot of broad generalizations in thread.

My wife and I are part of that crazy little group who consider ourselves "liberal Christians." We both grew up in KS in the United Methodist Church. And we've both been to church nearly every single Sunday (although not as much since we relocated for my job). And nothing grinds our gears more than getting roped in with the fanatical, bible-beating, ignorant types. Just because they make more noise does not make them representative of an entire religion.

I've done a lot of mission work, including rebuilding houses destroyed by Katrina, and tornado relief in Tennessee. And I'm not asking for a pat on the back right now. I'm telling you this that I did all that work with NO expectation of praise, reward, or anything else. I did it knowing that I was helping someone out. I wasn't evangelizing to those homeowners, or trying to convert them to my way of thinking. Just helping them because they needed it. Is it that hard to believe that there are other Christians like me out there?

Help is help.  Does it matter where it comes from as long as everyone's getting it who needs it?


Well said. Being agnostic does not preclude me from helping when I can. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Scientologist. If you need help and I can I will.
 
2013-05-25 05:11:15 PM

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: I wasn't aware that Christians no longer care about the Old Testament.  Good to know.

Most "Christians" don't really care about either testament.


Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.
 
2013-05-25 05:13:23 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"


It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.
 
2013-05-25 05:14:37 PM

saturn badger: Help is help.  Does it matter where it comes from as long as everyone's getting it who needs it?

Well said. Being agnostic does not preclude me from helping when I can. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Scientologist. If you need help and I can I will.


Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.
 
2013-05-25 05:14:48 PM

gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.


So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.
 
2013-05-25 05:15:52 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.


Cheap advertising isn't help.
 
2013-05-25 05:16:51 PM

Dragonflew: gimmegimme:  Logic and reason and truth mean something to me.

I actually own this t-shirt:

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x500]


good think that shirt is short sleeve.
 
2013-05-25 05:17:08 PM

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.

So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.


Look, if Christians (no quotes) cared about the Old Testament, they would stone homosexuals and would avoid cotton/polyester blends.  If Christians cared about the New Testament, they would acknowledge the Jesus fable is rife with contradictions and would urge slaves to accept their lot in life.
 
2013-05-25 05:19:21 PM

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.


You have described the "moral" of a story, one of the rules in a system of morality.
 
2013-05-25 05:20:17 PM

s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.

So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.


Why is their interpretation of their own religion any more valid than yours?

They're Christians if they believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.  That's really all that Christians have in common. If you don't like that, use a specific brand name like "UCC," "Methodist," "Baptist," "American Catholic," or the like.

They're all Christians. What they believe is amazingly diverse.
 
2013-05-25 05:21:08 PM

gimmegimme: Look, if Christians (no quotes) cared about the Old Testament, they would stone homosexuals and would avoid cotton/polyester blends.  If Christians cared about the New Testament, they would acknowledge the Jesus fable is rife with contradictions and would urge slaves to accept their lot in life.


As you like. I for one don't think Jesus would care much for the term "Christian" anyway. It is evidence of missing the point, so I digress. I guess when it comes to Christianity, there are no True Scotsmen.

/Digs hole, places hatchet therein, covers hole, looks at you and smiles.
 
2013-05-25 05:21:14 PM

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Y'all say that until a strip club offers to sponsor your Little League team and put its name on the uniforms.

Cheap advertising isn't help.


The fark it ain't, if it helps.

It isn't "kindness:"  help given to one in need without expectation of reward from the one helped.
 
2013-05-25 05:23:10 PM

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.


Can you show your work on that?  The OED seems to disagree with you.  And are you really saying that "morality" wasn't a concept before the English language came about?
 
2013-05-25 05:25:40 PM

gimmegimme: s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: Fark this editor... I know I typed, "Well, what else IS morality?"

It is a word coined for "the point of a story". The "Moral" of the story is when you look at what was done, what result it yielded and make a determination about what the "point" was.

Literally speaking, to say someone has no morals, is to say they have no point.

Can you show your work on that?  The OED seems to disagree with you.  And are you really saying that "morality" wasn't a concept before the English language came about?


He substituted "moral" for "morality" to create a non sequitur.
 
2013-05-25 05:27:01 PM

BarkingUnicorn: You have described the "moral" of a story, one of the rules in a system of morality.


A moral (from Latin morālis) is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. The moral may be left to the hearer, reader or viewer to determine for themselves, or may be explicitly encapsulated in a maxim.

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong). The philosophy of morality is ethics.

I know.

Lenny_da_Hog: Why is their interpretation of their own religion any more valid than yours?


Because they are wrong. Don't you agree?
 
2013-05-25 05:29:33 PM

BarkingUnicorn: if it helps.


It really doesn't.

It's much closer to this: "Here, little one, let me help you into my van!"
 
2013-05-25 05:30:46 PM

BarkingUnicorn: He substituted "moral" for "morality" to create a non sequitur.


Damn straight, I did.
 
2013-05-25 05:33:50 PM

s2s2s2: BarkingUnicorn: if it helps.

It really doesn't.

It's much closer to this: "Here, little one, let me help you into my van!"


Nonsense.  Some people might find naked Little Leaguers helpful,  but they're all sitting over  there.
 
2013-05-25 05:41:13 PM

DiggidyDan: What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).


I had that thought too. But only atheists.

/I keed
//that would be awesome
///actually thinks she may do just this
 
2013-05-25 05:43:42 PM

saturn badger: DiggidyDan: What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).

I had that thought too. But only atheists.

/I keed
//that would be awesome
///actually thinks she may do just this


She'll share part of it but she's not stupid.
 
2013-05-25 05:45:11 PM

s2s2s2: "Do you believe in God?"

Atheist: No.

"Do you believe there is no god?"

A: No.

Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that atheists DON'T believe there is no god?

Are you an atheist? How would you answer all of these questions?


All atheists are "without god" as this is the root definition of the word and this is the only definition that includes all atheists. Some atheists take this further to a claim that gods do not exist but this is a tiny minority of atheists.

Most atheists take the position that, with the human race claiming the existence of over 1000 gods and yet, over thousands of years, providing absolutely zero proof to support these claims, that the most logical position to take is that gods do not likely exist. This is not a claim of knowledge that gods do not exist. It is a position taken upon analysis of available evidence and one that is open to re-evaluation if new evidence is presented.
 
2013-05-25 05:48:20 PM
I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.
 
2013-05-25 05:51:39 PM

LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: LasersHurt: Waldo Pepper: I think you will find that at some point atheism will be classified as a religion of sort.

There's no way to do it.

When this is money to be made and power to be gained someone will find a way to make it happen.

But it would categorically NOT be atheism, then. The very definition of the word prohibits it.


Why not? If religion is defined by believing in an omnipotent persona then why is Scientology a religion?

/just assuming here
 
2013-05-25 05:51:48 PM

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


It's about distinguishing themselves from the believes they despise. Atheists who don't despise believers have more free time.
 
2013-05-25 05:51:53 PM

Farking Canuck: All atheists are


Ok.
 
2013-05-25 05:52:19 PM

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.
 
2013-05-25 05:53:54 PM

Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.


It's almost as silly as erecting thousands of buildings, spending time on television and radio programs, complete publishing companies with books and tracts, and spending hours and hours in those buildings in with that media every week.
 
2013-05-25 05:54:54 PM

Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.


and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread
 
2013-05-25 05:56:28 PM

Waldo Pepper: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread


You have no idea whether that's true.
 
2013-05-25 05:58:57 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.

grfx.cstv.com
Learned that saying that word was sometimes a bad idea.
 
2013-05-25 06:00:10 PM
Waldo Pepper:

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

What an idiotic thing to say. If this is where the lie is posted then this is where it needs to be refuted.

Whether or not anyone is swayed either way is irrelevant.

P.S. How is it not hypocritical of you to be in here posting in support of religion while suggesting that there is something wrong in us defending ourselves? Or is it that you've been religious so long that you are blind to your own hypocrisy?
 
2013-05-25 06:02:38 PM

John Buck 41: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.
[grfx.cstv.com image 275x264]
Learned that saying that word was sometimes a bad idea.


Yeah, that movie is why I usually say, "deliberately obtuse."

BarkingUnicorn: Waldo Pepper: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

You have no idea whether that's true.


What does "that" represent in your sentence?
 
2013-05-25 06:09:34 PM
Blitzer's a fool.

www.popcrunch.com

How do you get a negative score on celebrity Jeopardy?  It's barely more challenging than children's Jeopardy.
 
2013-05-25 06:09:50 PM
gimmegimme:

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

You have no idea whether that's true.

What does "that" represent in your sentence?


Clearer now?
 
2013-05-25 06:12:28 PM

YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.


Humans can't simply think things into or out of existence. Humans cannot create or destroy reality simply by a wave of their "hand". Humans cannot see the past beyond their experiences or the experiences of other humans, nor do they know the future.

Humans cannot do these things because they are, well, human. We have limits, many having to do with our own faults (greed, sloth etc). A god, by definition, doesn't have those limits, and can do anything they wish. Humans can't. This god could change the weather patterns and make the soil in the African nations fertile so that the people there could grow their own food with the merest thought. Why doesn't that happen?

Let's just say that for one day, you could prevent all the auto accidents in one large metropolitan area. With a word, all the cars that would crash into things and kill people could be stopped, just for that day. Yet you choose to go to each of the accident scenes just before they happen instead (because you know about them in advance), and simply watch. Does that make you malevolent, or just uncaring?

If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?
 
2013-05-25 06:35:28 PM

rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?


As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.
 
2013-05-25 06:36:58 PM

BarkingUnicorn: rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?

As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.


Why can't those folks handle reality?  What's wrong with them?
 
2013-05-25 06:39:56 PM
img835.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-25 06:43:33 PM

rewind2846: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:
I don't know.  Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

[www.religiouscriticism.com image 500x342]

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Humans can't simply think things into or out of existence. Humans cannot create or destroy reality simply by a wave of their "hand". Humans cannot see the past beyond their experiences or the experiences of other humans, nor do they know the future.

Humans cannot do these things because they are, well, human. We have limits, many having to do with our own faults (greed, sloth etc). A god, by definition, doesn't have those limits, and can do anything they wish. Humans can't. This god could change the weather patterns and make the soil in the African nations fertile so that the people there could grow their own food with the merest thought. Why doesn't that happen?

Let's just say that for one day, you could prevent all the auto accidents in one large metropolitan area. With a word, all the cars that would crash into things and kill people could be stopped, just for that day. Yet you choose to go to each of the accident scenes just before they happen instead (because you know about them in advance), and simply watch. Does that make you malevolent, or just uncaring?

If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?


Humans have control over a lot of things and yet we let bad shiat happen everyday. Doesnt make us all that inportant, does it?
 
2013-05-25 06:49:42 PM

Voiceofreason01: umad: As they should be. Agnostics are more obnoxious than fundies or atheists can ever hope to be. You found a way to feel superior to both groups, so CONGRATULATIONS, HAVE A FARKING COOKIE.

so having a life philosophy that doesn't insist on you being a raging lunatic or a complete asshole is a bad thing?


On Fark?
 
2013-05-25 06:50:09 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?

As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.

Why can't those folks handle reality?  What's wrong with them?


Why can't you handle the reality that feeling better is all people want or need to do?  What is wrong with you?

Perhaps you feel small, incomplete, and insignificant, and therefor need something larger than yourself to feel better.  Religion suffices for that purpose.
 
2013-05-25 06:55:51 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: rewind2846: If this omnipotent, omniscient being can't or won't prevent bad things from happening on this one tiny planet, in this one tiny galaxy, in all the universe that they created... doesn't seem much like a god, does it?

As some scientist once said, a thing is not useless just because it doesn't do what we want.

It is sufficient for many people that belief in God makes them feel better.

Why can't those folks handle reality?  What's wrong with them?

Why can't you handle the reality that feeling better is all people want or need to do?  What is wrong with you?

Perhaps you feel small, incomplete, and insignificant, and therefor need something larger than yourself to feel better.  Religion suffices for that purpose.


I'm just pleased you keep admitting that religion is a fantasy.  What I can't understand is what you have against reality.  Don't you see the problems that arise when people are disconnected from reality?
 
2013-05-25 07:01:21 PM

gimmegimme: I'm just pleased you keep admitting that religion is a fantasy.  What I can't understand is what you have against reality.  Don't you see the problems that arise when people are disconnected from reality?


Every time I read one of your replies.

A fantasy is part of reality; it's a real thing.  It has causes and effects.  Its most important effect is to make you feel better.
 
2013-05-25 07:03:43 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: I'm just pleased you keep admitting that religion is a fantasy.  What I can't understand is what you have against reality.  Don't you see the problems that arise when people are disconnected from reality?

Every time I read one of your replies.

A fantasy is part of reality; it's a real thing.  It has causes and effects.  Its most important effect is to make you feel better.


I'm going to bet that you've lost a lot of money to Nigerian e-mail scams.
 
2013-05-25 07:05:07 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: s2s2s2: gimmegimme: Well, we agree, aside from the quote marks.

So you think I should remove the quotation marks for people who claim to be something they are not, because they don't actually give a crap what the bible tells them to do, only what it tells other people to do?

Yeah, I should take anything else you say seriously.

Why is their interpretation of their own religion any more valid than yours?

They're Christians if they believe in the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth.  That's really all that Christians have in common. If you don't like that, use a specific brand name like "UCC," "Methodist," "Baptist," "American Catholic," or the like.

They're all Christians. What they believe is amazingly diverse equally ridiculous.


FTFY
 
2013-05-25 07:24:09 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: I'm just pleased you keep admitting that religion is a fantasy.  What I can't understand is what you have against reality.  Don't you see the problems that arise when people are disconnected from reality?

Every time I read one of your replies.

A fantasy is part of reality; it's a real thing.  It has causes and effects.  Its most important effect is to make you feel better.

I'm going to bet that you've lost a lot of money to Nigerian e-mail scams.


Tell me of one thing you've ever done that you did because you thought it would make you feel worse; one thing you believe because believing makes you feel worse; one thing you disbelieve because disbelieving makes you feel worse.
 
2013-05-25 07:28:29 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: I'm just pleased you keep admitting that religion is a fantasy.  What I can't understand is what you have against reality.  Don't you see the problems that arise when people are disconnected from reality?

Every time I read one of your replies.

A fantasy is part of reality; it's a real thing.  It has causes and effects.  Its most important effect is to make you feel better.

I'm going to bet that you've lost a lot of money to Nigerian e-mail scams.

Tell me of one thing you've ever done that you did because you thought it would make you feel worse; one thing you believe because believing makes you feel worse; one thing you disbelieve because disbelieving makes you feel worse.


You're not understanding: feelings have no bearing on reality.  You have the right to choose to make up a fantasy in which to live, but there are big problems.  Think of a person who believes their significant other is faithful, in spite of massive evidence to the contrary.  Living in a fantasy can result in that person getting herpes or AIDS.
 
2013-05-25 07:28:54 PM

gimmegimme: John Buck 41: gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: No more than Hemingway, who wrote, ""There's no one thing that's true.It's all true."

Well, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse.
[grfx.cstv.com image 275x264]
Learned that saying that word was sometimes a bad idea.

Yeah, that movie is why I usually say, "deliberately obtuse."

BarkingUnicorn: Waldo Pepper: Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper: I find it amazing how much time atheist spend in fark threads trying to justify their non belief. That much time spent doesn't seem logical.

The time is spent:

- correcting the misconceptions and lies that the religious spread about us
- discussing the unconstitutional religious laws that the religions are constantly trying to enact
- discussing the blatant lies that the religious are constantly, and often successfully, trying to get into science curriculums to indoctrinate our children with
- etc

Protecting our rights and dispelling lies about us is worth the effort.

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

You have no idea whether that's true.

What does "that" represent in your sentence?


atheist unicorns
 
2013-05-25 07:32:32 PM

Farking Canuck: Waldo Pepper:

and yet you succeed at doing none of these things in a fark thread

What an idiotic thing to say. If this is where the lie is posted then this is where it needs to be refuted.

Whether or not anyone is swayed either way is irrelevant.

P.S. How is it not hypocritical of you to be in here posting in support of religion while suggesting that there is something wrong in us defending ourselves? Or is it that you've been religious so long that you are blind to your own hypocrisy?


actually in this thread I was talking more about how at some point atheism will be come a "religion" as soon as someone decides they can gain power and make money on it once organized.
 
2013-05-25 07:34:55 PM

gimmegimme: You're not understanding: feelings have no bearing on reality.  You have the right to choose to make up a fantasy in which to live, but there are big problems.  Think of a person who believes their significant other is faithful, in spite of massive evidence to the contrary.  Living in a fantasy can result in that person getting herpes or AIDS.


You are not accepting how people actually behave, so you are ignoring reality.
 
2013-05-25 07:37:18 PM

BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: You're not understanding: feelings have no bearing on reality.  You have the right to choose to make up a fantasy in which to live, but there are big problems.  Think of a person who believes their significant other is faithful, in spite of massive evidence to the contrary.  Living in a fantasy can result in that person getting herpes or AIDS.

You are not accepting how people actually behave, so you are ignoring reality.


We're in agreement that people make silly decisions based upon emotion.  This is fallacious thinking.  I know exactly why they do it.  I'm just saying that abandoning reason deprives you of the tools to orient yourself in reality.

You can wish for something all you want, but that doesn't make it real.
 
2013-05-25 07:41:00 PM
So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....
 
2013-05-25 07:46:00 PM

gimmegimme: BarkingUnicorn: gimmegimme: You're not understanding: feelings have no bearing on reality.  You have the right to choose to make up a fantasy in which to live, but there are big problems.  Think of a person who believes their significant other is faithful, in spite of massive evidence to the contrary.  Living in a fantasy can result in that person getting herpes or AIDS.

You are not accepting how people actually behave, so you are ignoring reality.

We're in agreement that people make silly decisions based upon emotion.  This is fallacious thinking.  I know exactly why they do it.  I'm just saying that abandoning reason deprives you of the tools to orient yourself in reality.

You can wish for something all you want, but that doesn't make it real.


We are not in agreement on whether people's decisions are silly or based upon emotion.  I have repeatedly said that people do everything because they believe that it will make them feel better.  How you arrive at that belief may vary.  Whether what you do actually ends up making you feel better is uncertain.

Do rational  decisions always result in feeling better? No.  Do emotional decisions ever result in feeling better? Yes.

Now, if you want to argue that rational decisions result in feeling better more often than emotion decisions do, fine.  Back it up with some evidence.
 
2013-05-25 07:49:02 PM

abb3w: So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....


Yes, it is depressing that the Foundation is so ignorant of basic marketing principles.
 
2013-05-25 07:49:37 PM
The Billdozer:
Humans have control over a lot of things and yet we let bad shiat happen everyday. Doesnt make us all that inportant, does it?

Compared to a being who supposedly can bring into being all of time and space and matter and energy by just thinking it into existence, no. We're not all that important. Which is what bugs the sh*t out of some of us when we encounter those people who think they are all that important just because they believe in a god who couldn't give two squirts of holy piss about them.
 
2013-05-25 07:58:19 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I have never heard of a church that refused aid to a disaster victim, or a soup kitchen or homeless shelter that turned away anyone on the basis of faith.  You might have to listen to some proselytizing, but you'll get help.


Which is why the Red Cross says no to those kind of people's offering of help, because proselytizing is in direct violation of their principles of impartiality and universality to all people.

I can tell you of two churches I know of locally that would only help people of their own faith when the last tornado hit Memphis, both COGIC.

Seriously. This is the reason I will NEVER support the Salvation Army, and why I pulled support of one of the local homeless shelters and started supporting another that was secular in nature.
 
2013-05-25 08:22:48 PM

Lady Indica: kimmygibblershomework: nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.

same here.  Now if the atheists set up soup kitchens and help millions eat each year, they will be on a level playing field with the christians they despise so much.  i say despise, because look at tfa.  Come on liberal elites, you can do it ;)

/get fsm to fix my shift key, too

We do, we just don't generally do it under YE OLDE ATHEIST BANNER, and when some do...well hey lookie lookie. And as to 'despise' I know Christians loooove to play the underdog and the persecution card, but that's farking redonkulous.

I'm more than willing to bet I've done more for humanity than most 'Christians', and with zero expectation of reward in the hereafter. Nor do I do it to impress anyone about atheism. I do it because I'm a humanist. And if someone can come up and say 'nuh uh...' then I say...WOOT! Great! Awesome! More help for more people, woo hoo. Because THAT is the farking goal.

Suck it.


You just spent 4 sentences tooting your own horn, dipshiat.
 
2013-05-25 08:44:52 PM

Captain Dan: Offering her help because she's an atheist is bullshiat.  That's like offering a whites-only scholarship.


This is the dumbest farkin' thing I've read today!  The "whites-only scholarship" would be the religious community helping the religious.  The case in this story is the equivalent of a scholarship for Native Americans or some other small minority group and these actually exist without any controversy whatsoever.  Please, go be an idiot on some other planet!
 
2013-05-25 09:03:05 PM

abb3w: So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....


Why would a religious person need my help? Their imaginary friend will provide everything they need if they pray enough right?
 
2013-05-25 09:23:30 PM

abb3w: So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....


In-group bias isn't the only thing in play here; it's also a case of the specific versus the general. I.e. people have a stronger emotional response towards particular stories than broader topics that aren't tied to specific names and faces (even when the latter involve a much higher amount of total suffering).

Mind you, both things are depressing in their own right - just in different ways.
 
2013-05-25 09:38:57 PM

Biological Ali: abb3w: So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....

In-group bias isn't the only thing in play here; it's also a case of the specific versus the general. I.e. people have a stronger emotional response towards particular stories than broader topics that aren't tied to specific names and faces (even when the latter involve a much higher amount of total suffering).

Mind you, both things are depressing in their own right - just in different ways.


If you're going to get depressed over human nature, you may as well kill yourself.  It's inescapable and immutable.
 
2013-05-25 10:04:08 PM
"Do you thank God for sparing you?"

"Why should I? He sent the damn thing in the first place. Some all-loving and all-compassionate god he is. 'Mysterious ways'? That's a security blanket Christians use to justify following a creature who, according to their own text, turned the world into shiat in the first place by being an awful caretaker and will ultimately destroy creation and send most of his beloved humans to eternal torture because he's unable or unwilling to simply wave his omnipotent hand and fix what he farked up in the first place."
 
2013-05-25 10:05:53 PM

BarkingUnicorn: If you're going to get depressed over human nature, you may as well kill yourself. It's inescapable and immutable.


That's not entirely true, but even if one were to grant it for the sake of argument, it wouldn't somehow make these things not shiatty. It would just mean that the species is shiatty by nature.
 
2013-05-25 10:08:05 PM
What she should have said is "I'm actually a rational person."
 
2013-05-25 10:16:07 PM
I'd like to know how many that decry his actions have actually DONATED themselves. If you haven't donated, but instead are just here to complain about the form that others HAVE donated, then by all means, STFU.

Good job Doug Stanhope.

/seen his stand up live, funny guy, but crude and not for everyone.
 
2013-05-25 10:17:41 PM

Biological Ali: BarkingUnicorn: If you're going to get depressed over human nature, you may as well kill yourself. It's inescapable and immutable.

That's not entirely true, but even if one were to grant it for the sake of argument, it wouldn't somehow make these things not shiatty. It would just mean that the species is shiatty by nature.


Shiatty or not, getting depressed over it is silly.
 
2013-05-25 10:18:19 PM

nekom: Helping out a person who happens to be an atheist?  Fantastic.
Helping out a person BECAUSE she's an atheist?  Well, it's still helping, but it's a pretty dick motivation.


Yeah, but he never claimed to not be a dick. It's his gimmick. Whatever works, right? As long as the lady and her family are helped. Someone should set one up for the lady who found the dog, tho.
 
2013-05-25 10:19:32 PM

Biological Ali: In-group bias isn't the only thing in play here; it's also a case of the specific versus the general.


Also likely a factor, yes.

BarkingUnicorn: If you're going to get depressed over human nature, you may as well kill yourself. It's inescapable and immutable.


Human nature is inescapable, but its expression is mutable under different environmental conditions.
 
2013-05-25 10:44:18 PM
THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.


She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.
 
2013-05-25 10:45:40 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Shiatty or not, getting depressed over it is silly.


When I said that those things were depressing, I didn't mean that I was literally depressed in the clinical sense. The term is just one way of identifying something that sucks.
 
2013-05-25 10:57:20 PM

weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.


how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?
 
2013-05-25 11:09:48 PM

abb3w: So, this comedian has raised $80,000 from atheists for helping one prominent atheist in Oklahoma. In contrast, the Foundation Beyond Belief has only raised circa $40,000 for general crisis relief for the Tornado. So, it appears atheists may be as subject to in-group bias as Christians.

Well, that's farking depressing....


Well, Stanhope has a wider audience. My thought is that he should ask them to also donate to FBB, or make matching donations himself.
 
2013-05-25 11:12:33 PM

Waldo Pepper: weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.

how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?


Well, that didn't take much effort:

http://www.abc27.com/story/16986440/midstate-judge-rules-against-att ac k-on-atheist-in-costume

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk

http://disinfo.com/2010/12/atheist-speakers-assaulted-at-hawaii-stat e- capital-for-objecting-to-senate-prayer-video/
 
2013-05-25 11:15:26 PM
It took me an extra 30 seconds to locate a fatality.

http://www.examiner.com/article/soldier-shot-and-killed-for-being-an -a theist
 
2013-05-25 11:21:08 PM

eggrolls: Waldo Pepper: weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.

how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?

Well, that didn't take much effort:

http://www.abc27.com/story/16986440/midstate-judge-rules-against-att ac k-on-atheist-in-costume

Wasn't for coming out as an atheist 
but a Muslim man comes off the curb extremely offended at Muhammed being depicted in this way. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk
not really a threat was it

http://disinfo.com/2010/12/atheist-speakers-assaulted-at-hawaii-stat e- capital-for-objecting-to-senate-prayer-video/

Not a single example of someone being attacked for publicly admitting they are an atheist.

weak examples
 
2013-05-25 11:24:18 PM

eggrolls: It took me an extra 30 seconds to locate a fatality.

http://www.examiner.com/article/soldier-shot-and-killed-for-being-an -a theist


hearsay and motive never proven.
 
2013-05-25 11:27:34 PM

Waldo Pepper: eggrolls: Waldo Pepper: weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.

how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?

Well, that didn't take much effort:

http://www.abc27.com/story/16986440/midstate-judge-rules-against-att ac k-on-atheist-in-costume
Wasn't for coming out as an atheist 
but a Muslim man comes off the curb extremely offended at Muhammed being depicted in this way. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk
not really a threat was it

http://disinfo.com/2010/12/atheist-speakers-assaulted-at-hawaii-stat e- capital-for-objecting-to-senate-prayer-video/

Not a single example of someone being attacked for publicly admitting they are an atheist.

weak examples


Waldo Pepper: eggrolls: It took me an extra 30 seconds to locate a fatality.

http://www.examiner.com/article/soldier-shot-and-killed-for-being-an -a theist

hearsay and motive never proven.


blogs.vso.org.uk
 
2013-05-25 11:40:27 PM
RealFarknMcCoy2:
Why the fark are you so concerned about it?? If you ARE so concerned, why the fark don't YOU start a charity "Atheists for Tornado Relief"???

Why just tornadoes?  Go in for earthquakes, hurricanes, and floods while you're at it.

You can call your charitable organization...

Atheists For Relief Against 'Acts of God'.

/Maximum Trolling!
 
2013-05-25 11:44:24 PM
Ishidan: 

You can call your charitable organization...

Atheists For Relief Against 'Acts of God'.


blog.seattlepi.com
 
2013-05-26 12:00:29 AM
mekki:
(You want to see how Coastal Americans are so wrapped up in their world view, Middle Americans? Tell them one simple thing. Tell them that you've never seen the ocean and watch their minds be blown. Their reaction will be, "What? You've never seen the ocean. How can you've never seen the ocean?!" It will never occur to them that, of course, you've seen the ocean since you live in a landlocked state.)

I like how people who live in landlocked, flat-as-a-pancake states think they know anything of the world.  They know nothing of either the dizzying and magnificent heights of the mountain nor the endless abyss of the sea, and so many of them reject the similar highs and lows of human philosophy, and they think themselves wise.  How utterly hilarious.

/of course, I live in Hawaii.  Tomorrow's Sunday.  If I cared to, I could drop in on the morning services of any of a dozen faiths along the Pali highway, continue up the road and take in the dizzying view from the Pali lookout (where, it is said, King Kamehameha the First's pikemen pushed his enemies off a cliff before Frank Miller made it cool--http://www.discoverhawaiitours.com/blog/2010/12/02/the-history- of-the- nuuanu-pali-lookout/ ) then come back down in time to jump on a dinner cruise...and that's just the LEAST of the adventures in faith, mountain, and ocean one can have.
 
2013-05-26 12:12:42 AM
gimmegimme:
Can I borrow one of the unicorn horns in your collection?  I need to make a love potion.

No, you need a pegasus feather for that.  Just for the stirring, but still.
 
2013-05-26 12:18:33 AM

Dragonflew: Ishidan: 

You can call your charitable organization...

Atheists For Relief Against 'Acts of God'.

[blog.seattlepi.com image 311x311]


I see what you did there. And it's farking awesome.
 
2013-05-26 12:26:13 AM

fat boy: Little does she know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways.

R'Amen


FSM is the stupidest "meme" ever. Just a reincarnated invisible pink unicorn or invisible outer space teacup.
 
2013-05-26 01:01:08 AM

Ant: log_jammin: I can't give my feelings on this matter until Rebecca Watson tells me if it's rooted in sexism or not.

I honestly don't understand why everyone hates her so much. "Guys, don't do that" is not exactly the kind of phrase I would expect could bring down such hatred.


I can't say I "hate" her. but claiming victim status because someone made the mildest of passes at her is beyond ridiculous. and don't get me started with her "having sex with a drunk woman is rape" comment.

But I do enjoy her on the skeptics guide.
 
2013-05-26 01:22:42 AM
The great irony is that atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians, and they have no idea. Yet they claim to be of superior intelligence. What a farce.
 
2013-05-26 02:46:54 AM

Mystery Vortex: The great irony is that atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians, and they have no idea. Yet they claim to be of superior intelligence. What a farce.


[Citation Needed]
 
2013-05-26 03:16:17 AM

Mystery Vortex: The great irony is that atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians, and they have no idea. Yet they claim to be of superior intelligence. What a farce.


If you mean that there are assholes and morons in every group, then you are right.

IMHO, the claim of "superior intelligence" is often intentionally conflated with the common atheist requirement that a certain level of intellectual vigor be applied to religious claims.  Hopefully we all know that there are countless very intelligent people who are theists.  The question of why they remain theists is one of vast scope.
 
2013-05-26 03:43:56 AM

Mystery Vortex: atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians


when you paint with a very broad brush, you can cover the canvas very quickly.
 
2013-05-26 04:30:24 AM

fat boy: Whatever did happen with the Biden Trans Am money anyway?


You can easily find out. Just visit givejoethebird.com and read the updates. Most of the money was donated to charities. The rest went to funding the "giveaways" that were promised to donors, and/or administration fees. But then, you didn't really care, did you, you cynical fark??
 
2013-05-26 06:59:00 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: liam76: LasersHurt: liam76: I don't agree with your assessment, but I think we both agree they don't say their charity only goes to christians.

An, in a general sense, neither do atheists. Let's all remember that this one campaign /= the sum total of atheist giving.

I am highlighting the problem with "this one campaign".

He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".

Why the fark are you so concerned about it?? If you ARE so concerned, why the fark don't YOU start a charity "Atheists for Tornado Relief"???


I am not the one trying to pretend that athiests do as much for charity.
 
2013-05-26 08:16:08 AM
I had to laugh at this:

Nemo's Brother: A lot of douchebags in this thread. I"m sure you are not friends with many people because of your atheism. There's no way it can be because you're unpleasant assholes.  Nope. Its religion.


Followed directly by this:

billybobtoo: enjoy your stay in hell...


Yeah, it's the atheists who are douchebags. Riiiiiight.
 
2013-05-26 08:30:25 AM
Its nice to see people lend a hand, but over $80k in two days to rebuild.  My brother died, his family is having financial problems, and after two weeks less than $1000.  It would be nice to see help of this magnitude go their way.
http://www.gofundme.com/2uomq0
 
2013-05-26 10:01:06 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: liam76: He should have set up a charity "atheists for tornado relief".

Why, when we can just donate to the Red Cross, and don't have to invent a self-aggrandizing competing organization that would likely be less efficient?

There are a lot of people getting support through their churches because they are members of their churches, I guarantee.


I would agree with the statement a little more if you had said, "Some people get a lot of help from their churches because they are prominent members of their church."
I consider myself a spiritual person but find that churches, since they are populated by people, have their own little cliques and political ladders.
The church will pull a resource bank for their area and this will be where the majority of the church will get their support; along side the members of the community that don't go their church.

It's human nature to help, but it's also human nature to help the people you know and/or like more.
 
2013-05-26 10:09:05 AM

BarkingUnicorn: you may as well kill yourself


As should you. Just think how great Heaven will be! And you will be doing everybody on earth a favor. It is truly win-win.
 
2013-05-26 10:15:59 AM

hardinparamedic: Waldo Pepper: eggrolls: Waldo Pepper: weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.

how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?

Well, that didn't take much effort:

http://www.abc27.com/story/16986440/midstate-judge-rules-against-att ac k-on-atheist-in-costume
Wasn't for coming out as an atheist 
but a Muslim man comes off the curb extremely offended at Muhammed being depicted in this way. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk
not really a threat was it

http://disinfo.com/2010/12/atheist-speakers-assaulted-at-hawaii-stat e- capital-for-objecting-to-senate-prayer-video/

Not a single example of someone being attacked for publicly admitting they are an atheist.

weak examples

Waldo Pepper: eggrolls: It took me an extra 30 seconds to locate a fatality.

http://www.examiner.com/article/soldier-shot-and-killed-for-being-an -a theist

hearsay and motive never proven.

[blogs.vso.org.uk image 300x240]


I couldn't have said it better any other way, thanks.
 
2013-05-26 10:22:35 AM

RealFarknMcCoy2: I had to laugh at this:

Nemo's Brother: A lot of douchebags in this thread. I"m sure you are not friends with many people because of your atheism. There's no way it can be because you're unpleasant assholes.  Nope. Its religion.

Followed directly by this:

billybobtoo: enjoy your stay in hell...

Yeah, it's the atheists who are douchebags. Riiiiiight.


Yep, these threads bring out some of the funniest writing from both sides.

But, I've found this to be true.
If the first person you meet, that doesn't share your belief, is an asshole. Then you might have caught them on a bad day.
If the second, third, and fourth person you meet, that doesn't share your belief, is an asshole.  Then it might not be them.

I added in the line,"that doesn't doesn't share your belief," but if you remove that, it's still true.

I work with a guy who gets all the jerk clients.
I don't think he will ever understand that
 
2013-05-26 10:24:29 AM
sonuva!!!

Anyhoo..

I don't think he will ever understand that there is a reason he gets all the jerk clients.
 
2013-05-26 10:33:28 AM

log_jammin: Mystery Vortex: atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians

when you paint with a very broad brush, you can cover the canvas very quickly.


Yep, for me, anyway, I don't like being around passionate christians or passionate atheists.

Some of the really bad ones have to know what side you are so they know whether to apply, or remove, merit to what you say.

/Only Sith deal in absolutes.
 
2013-05-26 11:24:30 AM

eggrolls: Waldo Pepper: weltallica: THIS WOMAN

IS NOW

A TARGET.

She's gonna need all the help she can get.  It is still unsafe to publically admit you're an atheist in America 2013.

how many americans are attacked/killed early for publicly admitting to being an atheist?

Well, that didn't take much effort:

http://www.abc27.com/story/16986440/midstate-judge-rules-against-att ac k-on-atheist-in-costume

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk

http://disinfo.com/2010/12/atheist-speakers-assaulted-at-hawaii-stat e- capital-for-objecting-to-senate-prayer-video/


Number 1: Atheist did antagonize. What one gets for NOT knowing how people of religions react.

Number 2: From the sounds of it, no one was attacked.... a sign was stolen.

Number 3: That's better, got anymore?
 
2013-05-26 11:42:55 AM

Mystery Vortex: The great irony is that atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians, and they have no idea. Yet they claim to be of superior intelligence. What a farce.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-05-26 01:11:44 PM

Techhell: Evilhippie: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.
It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

I think you'll find that most atheists define themselves as not being able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but rather say that the evidence presented makes it highly improbably they exist. In fact much like most religious feel about just about any other god than the one(s) they happen to believe in.
I think in that way many atheists actually have been on a long journey down the path you describe as "I don't know, but let's find out". In fact studies show that atheists as a group generally know more about religion and the religious scriptures than those who define themselves as religious. I think this is directly linked to a more inquisitive nature among most atheists compared to most religious.

I think you're right... except in the same way that most Christians are pretty much "Do unto others" sorts of Christians. Which most people quite like, because they're quite willing to say "You're an atheist? Could you watch my kids on Sunday night while my husband and I are at a church function? We'll watch yours on Tuesday night in return?". Most atheists are quite willing to say that they can't disprove the existence of the supernatural and leave it at that.

The atheists that we generally hear from in the media are the atheists who say "There Is No God! You're Stupid For Believing In God!" just like we generally hear the Christians who say "Did you just say "Happy Holidays"? STOP OPPRESSING ME!". Nice, polite, well reasoned and reasonable people just don't make the 24hr news cycle, sort of like how only the most flamboyant of the posters here get things heated. The ones who are reasonable and polite we just read, nod in agreement, maybe press "Smart", and go on. It's the ones we think of as idiots that we reply to.


I think that has to do with reason the person is replying.
I always heard, something to the extent, "Conflict is good, nothing changes without conflict."

That is true but, to me, anyway, there are two basic goals to conflict..
1) Win.  What ever it takes, win.  Put that poster in their place and/or show the world your interpretation of what they said.
2) Understanding.  You want to know what led them to this point and exchange thoughts and ideas; you want to know them.

If the goal is understanding then both come out on top.

I get the feeling that some people don't like to invest time in something they can't chalk up to a victory; so they go for the win.
 
2013-05-26 03:17:53 PM

Mystery Vortex: The great irony is that atheists are every bit as judgmental and sanctimonious as evangelical Christians, and they have no idea. Yet they claim to be of superior intelligence. What a farce.


I've never been woken up at 5 in the morning by atheists wanting to indoctrinate me into their flock. I've never had atheists tell me that I'm a terrible evil person and I'm going to burn in hell forever because the first two humans ate some magical figs that made them intelligent and somehow it's also my fault. They also don't swear their lives and souls to fairy tales and claim invisible beings whisper to them to be either good or bad.
 
2013-05-26 03:57:19 PM
People_are_Idiots:
Number 1: Atheist did antagonize. What one gets for NOT knowing how people of religions react.


Here's the thing.  Atheists don't just agree with Christians, and this just further shows why.  Are we supposed to look the other way when someone does something wrong because it is in line with their religion?  If so, I'm forming a religion that punches people in the throat whenever they hear them say "God".
 
2013-05-26 04:57:20 PM

QuestingWolf: Its nice to see people lend a hand, but over $80k in two days to rebuild.  My brother died, his family is having financial problems, and after two weeks less than $1000.  It would be nice to see help of this magnitude go their way.
http://www.gofundme.com/2uomq0


Donated. Wish it could have been more, but as I know, every dollar helps out. Enjoy your month of TF, too, QuestingWolf.
 
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