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(Planet Ivy)   Police solve homelessness once and for all. Key strategy: Take sleeping bags, food, and any other possessions and move them on   (planetivy.com) divider line 162
    More: Sad, homeless, drug possession, Ilford  
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8364 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 2:51 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-25 03:36:00 AM

Gyrfalcon: LindenFark: It's natural to want to believe that people are homeless by choice. Because if it were true, we wouldn't have to feel bad for them. They must like it at some level or they wouldn't have chosen it in the first place. Also, we also don't have to be afraid of it happening to us, because, Good Grief, we're never going to choose to be homeless! No sir! Not something we have to plan against or lose sleep over.

Frequently question whether you believe something just because you want to.

Some people are homeless by choice. Some people are homeless by necessity. Some just can't negotiate the endless confusion of paperwork and clerks talking gibberish and intimidating waiting rooms needed to get out of homelessness. Some don't like being told when and how they have to dress, sleep, eat and bathe, and so they stay homeless as preferable to having some young punk order them around. Some have had their brains turned to mush by too many years of alcohol or drugs; some never had brains to begin with. And some aren't really homeless, they're just in transition and will be back among society before too long.

The idea that there is one cause of homelessness, or one type of homeless person, is probably more corrosive to ending homelessness than poverty or drug addiction or apathy. If people see a bum on the street and instantly think (as some do right here on Fark) "Oh, he just wants to be homeless," then that negates any other explanation of his condition, and thus any other solution: That he might be mentally retarded, for instance, or illiterate, or simply be lost and confused while traveling. But by the same token, thinking "Oh, he's mentally ill and unable to fend for himself" negates the concept that maybe he's a scam artist who likes living off the public dole.

But overgeneralizing is a lot easier than having to think about these things.


I like your post. I think the majority of homeless people are homeless by choice but I like your post anyhow.
 
2013-05-25 03:41:34 AM

skullkrusher: ok, so do we solve the problem by focusing on those who are homeless "by necessity" or are we required to treat the rest of them respectfully?


Well....Maybe by treating homelessness not so much as "a problem" first of all? Why is it "a problem"? What is so "problematic" about people choosing not to live in houses?

If we could differentiate between the ones who DO prefer a gypsy lifestyle and would rather not be bothered with the whole housing thing--gave them an area of town to live in, for instance, or set aside public land for them to camp on for free--and then yes, treat the rest of them like human beings and not semi-sub-human freaks of nature.

Hobos, bums and "homeless" all have one thing in common with other human detritus throughout history--they don't really do anything objectionable except fail to follow social norms and for that everyone runs around in circles as if it was "a problem." What does it harm YOU if they prefer to sleep in a tent in the park? Assuming they commit no crimes and don't actively panhandle you, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
 
2013-05-25 07:17:59 AM
Homelessness wouldn't be as much of an issue if we just, you know, gave people places to stay without onerous requirements. A rich fark can come and go when he pleases, get up at 3 pm if he wants, guzzle a bottle of wine a day and nobody is going to force him out of his house. Heck, if he wants to snort blow all day, as long as he doesn't bother the neighbors and does it inside, probably nothing will happen.

Yet somehow homeless people are expected to get up very early at shelters, are not allowed to drink or do drugs, etc. Basically, we expect them to act like angels before we give them mercy. Oh, and I forgot - they get to share space with tons of other homeless people. This is okay for families, actually, it keeps the most unstable out so they can get on their feet and it's safe for the kids, but the chronically homeless tend to not be like that. Ironically, it's been found that giving people a place to live means they tend to moderate their own bad behavior - they drink less, their health is better (which saves tremendous amounts of money), obviously they get arrested less, and suddenly they aren't relieving themselves on the street.

The easiest fix is just to give people places to live, without unreasonable expectations. This is called "housing first" and is catching on, slowly.
 
2013-05-25 09:41:05 AM

adamatari: The easiest fix is just to give people places to live, without unreasonable expectations. This is called "housing first" and is catching on, slowly.


Are there no prisons?  Are there no workhouses?
 
2013-05-25 11:49:12 AM

armor helix: Most of the homeless are homeless by choice. Not all, but most.
They use drugs, crap everywhere, deter business, camp out in restaurant and store bathrooms, panhandle aggressively and commit all kinds of petty crimes of opportunity.
It used to be an embarrassment to be homeless. The police would arrest and charge the homeless with vagrancy.
Nowadays everybody is in such a hurry to beat the next Prius over to the corner pan handling bum to give him an organic banana that nobody realizes what a bunch of self entitled a!*holes modern homeless people are. Go buy lunch in San Francisco and go sit down to eat at the park if you don't believe me. In fact, you probably can't get down to the park because the escalator is clogged with homeless people's feces and won't work anymore. (Happens all the time)

A missing sleeping bag would be the least of a homeless person's concerns if I had my way. I work hard every day to take care of myself and my family so I don't have to impose on others. I have no respect or empathy for people who leech off of society. Disabled veterans are a different story, of course.


Well... there  are homeless out there who work very hard to get out of that situation; spend their every waking moment looking for a place to live, or at least be out of everybody's way; plus a job if they're not disabled.

These (somewhat) rare homeless abstain from alcohol, drugs and do their very best to be presentable to the public; they might even store most of their crap at friends/family members' places so they don't clog the bus or subway... Most likely, you've walked right by, stood next to or even (GASP!!!)  spoken witha homeless person and never been the wiser.

Any respect for someone like that? Someone who's going through a rough patch in life and just wants to become stable again? Or do you just want to shoot them before they have the chance to get their shiat together?

After all, they might end up living in the same neighborhood as you... and living as productive members of society!!

/quick, ship them off before they have the chance to live a respectable life!
//stay down, bum!!
///Stay down in the gutter so I can piss on your head!
 
2013-05-25 12:36:48 PM

0z79: /quick, ship them off before they have the chance to live a respectable life!
//stay down, bum!!
///Stay down in the gutter so I can piss on your head!


Well, how else are you going to remind yourself that if you have food and shelter, you're a winner!
 
2013-05-25 12:40:25 PM

Gyrfalcon: skullkrusher: ok, so do we solve the problem by focusing on those who are homeless "by necessity" or are we required to treat the rest of them respectfully?

Well....Maybe by treating homelessness not so much as "a problem" first of all? Why is it "a problem"? What is so "problematic" about people choosing not to live in houses?

If we could differentiate between the ones who DO prefer a gypsy lifestyle and would rather not be bothered with the whole housing thing--gave them an area of town to live in, for instance, or set aside public land for them to camp on for free--and then yes, treat the rest of them like human beings and not semi-sub-human freaks of nature.

Hobos, bums and "homeless" all have one thing in common with other human detritus throughout history--they don't really do anything objectionable except fail to follow social norms and for that everyone runs around in circles as if it was "a problem." What does it harm YOU if they prefer to sleep in a tent in the park? Assuming they commit no crimes and don't actively panhandle you, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?


Why is it a problem? Because nobody wants to go to a park that homeless people have been sleeping in. Can you honestly say that you would? Nobody would want to live next to an area "set aside" for homeless use. How would you feel if the city decided to put a homeless camp near your house (assuming you own a house and don't want the value to plummet).

I'll agree that homeless people aren't a problem for everyone - they are just a problem for anybody living anywhere near them.
 
2013-05-25 12:44:53 PM

0z79: armor helix: Most of the homeless are homeless by choice. Not all, but most.
They use drugs, crap everywhere, deter business, camp out in restaurant and store bathrooms, panhandle aggressively and commit all kinds of petty crimes of opportunity.
It used to be an embarrassment to be homeless. The police would arrest and charge the homeless with vagrancy.
Nowadays everybody is in such a hurry to beat the next Prius over to the corner pan handling bum to give him an organic banana that nobody realizes what a bunch of self entitled a!*holes modern homeless people are. Go buy lunch in San Francisco and go sit down to eat at the park if you don't believe me. In fact, you probably can't get down to the park because the escalator is clogged with homeless people's feces and won't work anymore. (Happens all the time)

A missing sleeping bag would be the least of a homeless person's concerns if I had my way. I work hard every day to take care of myself and my family so I don't have to impose on others. I have no respect or empathy for people who leech off of society. Disabled veterans are a different story, of course.

Well... there  are homeless out there who work very hard to get out of that situation; spend their every waking moment looking for a place to live, or at least be out of everybody's way; plus a job if they're not disabled.

These (somewhat) rare homeless abstain from alcohol, drugs and do their very best to be presentable to the public; they might even store most of their crap at friends/family members' places so they don't clog the bus or subway... Most likely, you've walked right by, stood next to or even (GASP!!!)  spoken witha homeless person and never been the wiser.

Any respect for someone like that? Someone who's going through a rough patch in life and just wants to become stable again? Or do you just want to shoot them before they have the chance to get their shiat together?

After all, they might end up living in the same neighborhood as you... and living as productive members of society!!

/quick, ship them off before they have the chance to live a respectable life!
//stay down, bum!!
///Stay down in the gutter so I can piss on your head!


I was very clear about the type of homeless person I find objectionable. The type of homeless person you specified is not it. If you had even scanned over my post you would have seen that. But you didn't - the opportunity to pop off like a snarky doosh-troll was just too strong for you to resist, wasn't it?
Apparently getting irritated about finding human feces on your property is the same thing as "DERP!!! stay down in the gutter so I can piss on your head! DERRRPPP DERPP!!!"
 
2013-05-25 01:20:41 PM

Bender The Offender: skullkrusher: Bender The Offender: skullkrusher: ok, so do we solve the problem by focusing on those who are homeless "by necessity" or are we required to treat the rest of them respectfully?

Why can't you treat them all respectfully? How does it diminish you at all to treat every human being with respect?

because if you're homeless because you want to be, get the fark off my steps? It doesn't diminish me to want people who have a choice but choose to litter my stoop to get the fark off my stoop.
I dunno, seems pretty obvious

I don't think that being homeless is an "obvious" reason for being worthy of disrespect. I also don't think people want to be homeless. I've worked with the homeless for 20 years. In that time, not once has any of them said "hey, I want to be homeless". I don't want to get into any pointless arguments though, you tend to be fixed in your belief systems. I will honestly say that I hope that should any misfortune befall you that puts you in a similar position, that society looks upon you with more kindness, compassion, and understanding. I really mean it.


if you read the OP I was responding to, you'll note that she makes a distinction about homelessness out of necessity and otherwise. That is the context in which the conversation is happening. Or something something fixed belief systems. Whichever you prefer
 
2013-05-25 01:22:58 PM

Gyrfalcon: skullkrusher: ok, so do we solve the problem by focusing on those who are homeless "by necessity" or are we required to treat the rest of them respectfully?

Well....Maybe by treating homelessness not so much as "a problem" first of all? Why is it "a problem"? What is so "problematic" about people choosing not to live in houses?

If we could differentiate between the ones who DO prefer a gypsy lifestyle and would rather not be bothered with the whole housing thing--gave them an area of town to live in, for instance, or set aside public land for them to camp on for free--and then yes, treat the rest of them like human beings and not semi-sub-human freaks of nature.

Hobos, bums and "homeless" all have one thing in common with other human detritus throughout history--they don't really do anything objectionable except fail to follow social norms and for that everyone runs around in circles as if it was "a problem." What does it harm YOU if they prefer to sleep in a tent in the park? Assuming they commit no crimes and don't actively panhandle you, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?


I don't care if people sleep in the park. I was operating under the assumption that homelessness was something that needed a war waged on it. I don't give a fark if you wanna sleep under a bridge. Your life.
However, as I've said, if you're on my stoop GET THE FARK OFF MY STOOP.
 
2013-05-25 01:36:14 PM

skullkrusher: Bender The Offender: skullkrusher: Bender The Offender: skullkrusher: ok, so do we solve the problem by focusing on those who are homeless "by necessity" or are we required to treat the rest of them respectfully?

Why can't you treat them all respectfully? How does it diminish you at all to treat every human being with respect?

because if you're homeless because you want to be, get the fark off my steps? It doesn't diminish me to want people who have a choice but choose to litter my stoop to get the fark off my stoop.
I dunno, seems pretty obvious

I don't think that being homeless is an "obvious" reason for being worthy of disrespect. I also don't think people want to be homeless. I've worked with the homeless for 20 years. In that time, not once has any of them said "hey, I want to be homeless". I don't want to get into any pointless arguments though, you tend to be fixed in your belief systems. I will honestly say that I hope that should any misfortune befall you that puts you in a similar position, that society looks upon you with more kindness, compassion, and understanding. I really mean it.

if you read the OP I was responding to, you'll note that she makes a distinction about homelessness out of necessity and otherwise. That is the context in which the conversation is happening. Or something something fixed belief systems. Whichever you prefer


I responded directly to you. I quoted the response. Play the vitcim all you want. Move the goalpost all you like. It's as plain as day, I responded directly to you and somehow my hope that you are treated better by society than you are willing to treat it means that you are the victim and now comes with some sort of convoluted backpedaling to highlight your victimhood. Whatever, I'm not arguing with you so you can paint yourself as a more pathetic victim. You win the internet, stay classy.
 
2013-05-26 12:43:41 AM

EkimProx: If I'm walking down the street, I really don't like seeing people sleeping on it. Street is for walking, not sleeping. Learn to sleep walk or get the fark out.


Next time you're walking down the street, do us all a favor and walk into traffic.During rush hour.
 
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